Chinese AI and the Trillion Dollar Crash
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
- deepseek r1 this deepseek r1 that why dont you seek a deep connection with a real 1?
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Edited by eriksenchee, QuacK, & jellie
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In about 10 years, these couple years will be called the AI bubble, and 10 billion books will be written, and a movie will be made and then we will not learn and rinse and repeat.
It will all be written in mandarin 💀
AI and Crypto grift bubble
Everyone thinks we’re in a bubble, that’s a good sign that we’re probably not in one. A bubble is usually hard to spot, that’s why it’s called a bubble.
And sadly it won’t be written by us, but for us
@@Joshuawilson94No I think people know, but there are to many vested interest that want to keep it going because they are making money and not thinking about the long term
Amazing that the one called “Open AI” is the closed AI
It lived long enough to become the villain.
It used to be open, until they started making a lot of money. And started needing to actually compete with big tech, in all honesty OpenAI kind of did everything they needed to for survival. They were the first which historically does not bode well for the company. They had a good run, I assume they will likely divert their efforts into another AI niche.
It got secretly sold to the Chinese by it's owner too. Go figure.
The open stands for open your fucking wallet. xD
Open AI is scurge for humanity, dumb people shouldnt speak with them
I cant believe a chinese AI came up with the hardest Atrioc intro ever
Antioch?
@@UndreliPquyquy the holy hand grenade of Atrioc?
Time for me to cancel my monthly ChatGPT subscription😂😂
@@Luke-v6p yea where i never had GPT but if it's free SHIIIIIT why not see what all the fuss is about this ne fangled "A.I." if that is there real name
And thumbnail holy cinema
the irony that everything happens on lunar festival week, that on chinese new year you give gifts in form of money and that you literally congratulate people on becoming wealthy, 恭喜发财 to everyone
Interesting that you have sosro logo as your pfp
@@BilliEMusics hidup manis, mati manis
Based Soros @@BilliEMusics
Sosro, haven't heard that name in a while
And God bless you sir 😊
So DeepSeek is:
1. Much cheaper to train/build (Probably by many billions)
2. Completely free to use.
3. Can run locally on your device without internet.
4. Is just as good as the best AI's available.
5. Is almost completely an Open Source AI.
Yea, makes sense why Big Tech is reeling rn 😅
Edit: Changed some things based on comments and additional information
IN A CAVE!!! WITH A BUNCH OF SCRAPS‼️‼️‼️‼️
First and third is wrong
@@Jackpadgett-gh8htAll are correct. 100x is lowballing it even since most big corpos are spending billions on training LLMs
@@Jackpadgett-gh8ht how is the third wrong? Assuming the training data is downloaded and all the computing is in your home setup why would it need acess to the internet?
@Lucas-cm8zq you aren’t wrong but full version still requires ~400gb v/ram. They have dense models that fit into prosumer cards but those aren’t the models competing with openai.
To me it's so crazy that we can dump hundreds of billions into the AI hole and yet investing a fraction of that sum into tangible things like rail infrastructure is balked at
That's the u.s for you.
Get back to me when an expansive rail network does my homework and pretends to love me
Maybe the government can use some of the tariff money on those rails, while putting a tariff on what they need to produce those rails.
@@Shellghost09 but can i fuck it?
@Zirf your sarcasm does not come through in the text. I had to read that more than once and I am far more open to seeing the sarcasm in what people right than others.
"captialism is build on competition" dudes when their company in fact has competition
This, they claim capitalism when they are built on the lack of true competition instead.
The US government unable to tariff this punching at the air rn
@@Ehh..... they going to tarrif Taiwanese made chips. Lol that fab is the only one who can make bleeding edge silicon.
It's just a 25% tax on Americans at that point
@@somethinglikethat2176gpu prices 😢
"They only encourage competition when they can win. When they lose, competition becomes a threat to national security."
AI companies getting mad after they steal your data to train their AI, and then people use your AI to replicate it for free use
Steal my data and sell it back to me, becomes just steal my data and potentially sell it back to me in the future.
Ah... The irony...
I came down to say the same thing. I know I’m not the only one who caught on… but MAN ITS SO SWEET.
The fucking power trip they had stealing peoples data to make their Goliath and take over. Only to be undermined. HAH!
They couldn’t have used its data because it’s CLOSED SOURCE. Did you miss the first half of the video orrr……? smh
@@MrRhoidRage😂You don't learn about artificial data
When China tech is helping driving living costs down in the US better than any politician 😱
Open source and free and is literally "not open" ai's $200 level if not better 😂😂😂😂
Doesn't really offset all the Chinese investors who have been buying up all of the real estate in the US. 😂
"living costs" I care more about wages to income ratio than a bunch of cheap poorly made shit from China that Poor losers eat up. Temu consistently steals money out of people’s bank accounts since they’re losing money every purchase lmao.
@@SuperCatacata id rather have the chinese guys who made deepseek live next to me than sam altman and elon musk
How is it that a random twitch streamer is somehow providing me better coverage of the market than literally any other news media outlet?
Independant journalism (something something glizzy, bars)
what do the words in the parentheses mean?
Because he isn’t random and studied the stock market before RUclips and economics at a high level…dont let that goofy autistic laugh fool you
@@PeanutButterJelly-bn9gu HAHAHAHA
America - announces $500 billion AI project.
China - erases $500 billion in earnings with $6 million AI project
We're cooked
Stock value doesn't really matter especially market cap.
Market cap is not earnings
I gotta admit the "china century starting" sentiment I've seen online lately has megs to stand on. As the US economy becomes more and more bloated and monopolistic, they open the door for countries like China to completely blow their offerings out of the water
American cooperations stick their head in the sand trying to be 30 years ahead of while deepseek(made in China)is as close to a ChatGPT sequel as we reasonably expect
(My comment keeps disappearing and I’m too lazy to redo)
Now I’m wondering, where did the 500 billion dollars go?
So OpenAI copies all of our collective homework so the rich can get even more Uber rich. Then Deepseek copies OpenAI's homework and gives it away for free, wiping away a lot of those gains. Cool.
Robin Hood
@@bmobasco if Robin Hood was owned by the nazis
So Deepseek is just karma balancing things out?
Pirate Problems deserve Pirate Solutions
And the best part is that now that it's out in the wild, anybody can do it. Just start training your AIs on ChatGPT and CoPilot and Gemini outputs, then hand all that out for free too. Add an Amiga synthwave cracktro to make it perfect
And the OpenAI boot lickers cry foul. How DARE you copy our copied homework to give to the rest of the class for free?!
"THE CHINESE WERE ABLE TO BUILD THESE IN A CAVE!! WITH A BUNCH OF SCRAPS!!"
- Sam Altman, probaly idk
No, they did it with chips stripped from Russian washing machines and shovels.
@@PhiloSurfer But sir, it’s just not possible!!! We tried our best from top engineers.
@@tsrmmercy836 But sir it's just not possible! Our engineers proposed this solution last year and you ordered us to fire them all!
More like,:
Sam Altman: "these SA allegations are definitely not true"
Yeah... or they're lying. Can't be sure but historically... and with a chip ban..
Chinese has always been known to do more with less. Americans nowadays just throw money to brute force the problem, and then pass the costs to the consumer.
That's how capitalism works.
@@ChunkSchuldinga I would argue that China's AI industry is more capitalist than America's rn
@@Adam-zy9fvIt is funny, they are definitely closer to socialism but that produces better capitalism. They have a giant control over the production in all levels, from planning to production and distribution. In america you have "anarchy". Socialism was about that all along, doing better capitalism, even Lenin talks about that, when he need to go back and "develop capitalism" before he can continue the revolution towards communism
Capitalism is a cancer eating humanity. Communism is pragmatic. Communism means doing what works for the good of the public.
Part of the magic of building everything on what would be considered slave labor everywhere else.
"What do you mean you can't work 100 hours a week for 1 dollar per hour?"
This is basically the equivalent of modern day share ware. The fact that it’s open source and free and just as good means the accessibility is huge, they also can’t ban it because you can host it locally. The amount of potential with this is unfathomable
Having a $600B dip in Nvidia stock in accordance to the report done by Sequoia half a year ago looking at a $600B bubble is just pure insanity
that's $1,200,000,000,000 going the opposite direction
Maybe the chip ban in China had the reverse effect, it made them more innovative more creative more resilient
For sure, Huawei and HiSilicon are bouncing back faster than ever expected
It’s not a maybe. The US is giving them
direct challenges to react to. It’s almost like HW assignments. “Build a competitive AI model with access to the latest chip.” “Find a market for EVs without access to the US.” Etc. meanwhile the US is reacting to it’s own vague propaganda against China. “China may or may not be spying on us through their apps, we literally have no evidence, but we are going to react to this.” “China may or may not have developed Covid in a lab, or maybe it was actually us?” “Mexican Cartels are buying chemicals from China and using them to create Fentanyl. That means China is sending Fentanyl into the US right? Close enough!” “China is buying up American farmland, that’s terrifying even though they own less than 1% of all foreign owned farmland in the US. Everything the US is doing against China forces them to react in a way that makes them more resilient. The US is focused on all the wrong things because it’s based on their own paranoia and stereotypes, and not reality. US should focus on producing stuff the world wants to buy and stop obsessing over fruitless power games.
The enemy of art is the absence of limitations
Singapore just happened to start buying a lot more for some reason. Must be a coincidence.
@@notarealdad afaik huawei recent phones are constantly out of stock in China retail because they can't produce enough chips.
This is not a Chinese win as much as it is an OpenSource win. The fact that you can run a state of the art model on mediocre hardware and develop your own in house finetuned llm is just going to chane the game immensely and empower the smaller players. The big7 having oligopoly over LLMs is over.
Based
which is insanely based though the energy consumption will be much higher because more companies will compete
And China is the one who brought that power to the people. Win
@ Common People's Republic W fr
@@st.altair4936 I might disagree how common the W is for the PRC, but this is a big W for them either way.
You missed it Atrioc. Massive US corporations buy government officials to allow them to make monopolies or duopolies so competition is limited. This allows corporations to make massive profits with making average or slightly above average products and services.
*below average. look at spotify, streaming, social media, they all have awful services. the only reason we dont think theyre awful is that they dont have any competition to show that actually, their services are awful compared to those made by people that actually care. i mean, paywalling playlists?? are you serious spotify? ads that you pay to watch in netflix? etc.
The loser is our electrical grid.
Not really, since it can be hosted locally on a few GPUs instead of massive server farms it'll probably save our grid in the long run.
Deepseek fixed that problem
Not deepseek....still takes a lot of power to run but fucking NOTHING like openai or any other, this will be good for energy usage of ai
their stocks also went down after deepseek
AI companies loosing their jobs to AI is too hilarious.
We're not living in a dystopia, WE'RE LIVING IN A COMEDY SKIT!
I really, really, REALLY hope this causes a genuine and total crash in the AI bubble, at least it could be the first domino in the line
Nah, at most nvidia and American tech companies will suffer while the world gets flooded even MORE with extremely cheap, efficient AIs that run at a fraction of the cost
@@walberparker7111Honestly nvidia crashing is good enough for me they were too cocky with gaming graphics card prices and nickel and diming if they crash on ai they will crawl back to us.
Hoping for a market crash. what a loser
@@walberparker7111 This is literally Cyberpunk 2077
This is going to cause an explosion in availability for AI, not burst the bubble. It's bad for the tech giants in America, but good for everyone else using AI.
I also think it's worth stating that, for many people, "you're giving your data to China!" isn't going to be a convincing argument for giving your data to private US companies as the time goes on.
With trump wanting to go to all kinds of war with Europe with trump, i see it happening that Europe starts banning amurican tech.
Yeah, I'm not American, so it doesn't matter if it's Microsoft or the Chinese who get my information. I'm just gonna use the best app available to me.
Yes libertarian 1-o-1 china usa can't harm you but your country's govt surely can
@@MD.Akib_Al_Azad at this point, china and us already knows more about me than myself
I'd rather China have my data than the usa
4:27 Deepseek's CEO actively trolling the US ai companies is crazy 😭🙏
Monopoly capitalism loses all the advantages of capitalism. Both an anticapitalist and a pro capitalist should agree on one thing. Monopolies are bad
I am a Chinese, I think capitalism or socialism, the problem is monopoly, which means end of a healthy market, competition is the key to economically success. I think Americans are good at restrain politician, but not so good at restrain monopolies.
RUclips is fully aware of that-and had been taking advantage of that for the past decade. Maybe one day it'll have somewhat notable competitor just like Bluesky to Twitter, hopefully.
What if deepthink is just one million chinese people writing very fast.
I heard it's actually downloadable and runnable in an airgapped environment
Infinite monkey Typewriter
Don't bring chinese into this!
“Damn it Xao Ming, your supposed to NOT talk about tiannamen square, that will be -500 social credit and a year of communal labor!”
Lol this is how Amazon does things (but with Indian staff)
At this point I've lost trust in any industry worth billions of dollars. Whether it's the military industrial complex, US healthcare or now AI, it seems like if 100 billion dollars are put into something, that actually means maybe 100 million actually gets put in, with the other 99.9 billion going to executives, middle men, jets flying in circles and $500 paperclips. It's the same reason AAA games keep losing to indie games, they spend all these millions on things that nobody really cares about just to underpay writers resulting in soulless corporate slop.
You're class consciousness is growing, and it's a good thing. We have been separated from the benefits of our "industries" for way too long in the us. And no amount of competitive free market will ever right the upside down balance of wealth tbh.
Its almost like america is a corporatocracy 🤔
Yup right on the mark
dont forget the big movie and games studios that keep doing less with more
The lure of having that much money to skim off of is just too high, I think big budget literally anything specifically attracts people that want to grift. You'd notice if 10 million of a 20 million budget goes missing, but it's harder to track 10 million out of a 500 billion dollar budget, and either way 10 million can change people's lives. It's a balance between investing in large projects that need to be done versus keeping projects small enough that the conmen don't find it worth it and don't swarm like flies to honey.
Great video. I study in Shanghai and a bunch of my friends are Chinese national CS majors and they’ve been losing their shit over this
They keep making fun of my American ass as if I programmed all American AI
@@niteuqrellin5312 loser! You suck for making all those shitty AIs
@@niteuqrellin5312it’s also a keylogger
@@niteuqrellin5312 LMAOO
@@niteuqrellin5312 deserved for not being chinese
On the AOL thing, it's insane how so many finance and tech bros don't understand this (or pretend not to because their salary depends on it):
SOMETHING BECOMING CHEAP AND WIDESPREAD OBLITERATES YOUR COMPANY VALUE, IT DOES NOT INCREASE IT
Widely-available and clean municipal tap water will skyrocket the consumption of water for everything from drinking to cleaning to making pasta. You know what it will also do? It will drive the deep-bore private well company bankrupt.
Will it? People drink bottled water even where tap water is available and presumably fine
@ Even bottled water is immensely cheaper and more available than what a village could get out of their medieval well.
Besides, you’re not buying water with bottled water, you are buying the fact that it is bottled for your convenience in any random place that sells it - hence why it’s outrageously expensive at airports, where it’s even more convenient.
There's no way this isn't a simulation and we aren't in someone's busted, buggy Sims game.
15:03 Oh what beautiful irony... After so many years of the dubious legality for LLMs to be trained off of copyrighted work just to undercut the creators of those works, now DeepSeek comes in having trained off ChatGPT so it can undercut them.
Beautiful
Chatgpt got its job taken by AI ICANT
@@Cye_Pie How did you think this was going to progress? Genuine question as playing dumb here just makes you seem dumb?
@@dysfunc121 I- I think they just find the situation funny.
@@dysfunc121 dude took it too literally 💀
had to pull out the entire editing squad to get this up asap, props to the team
Timestamps:
Video ends at 25:37
thanks lil bro
🙏 thank you
🙏 thank you
More important time stamp 2:01
🙏 thank you
ngl kinda rooting for China at this point. Not only do they have better talent, but America feels like a dogwater country headed towards dystopia.
Not saying China doesn't have its problems, but it doesn't have billionaires doing questionable German salutes in their government.
I would literally move to China if I didn't have a criminal record which precludes immigration there, unfortunately my only job options are becoming president of the US :/
For me personally I'm rooting for china in this specific instance. Because overall china is authoritarian and commiting the uhger genocide.
But i hate AI so deep seek sabotaging the entire ai market is based imo
You two are delusional 😂
Yeah China doesn't have shady billionaires. You are delulu
Who is Jack Ma?
23:25 "We don't wonna give them billions of dollars" >Proceeds to give 500 billion to AI advancement which will then be largely spent buying more expensive chips
Even if Deepseek may or may not be telling the whole story behind its development, the fact that tech stocks took that big of a hit just tells you that AI is just a money pit.
AI, the great people replacement tool, getting replaced itself by a cheaper option is distopically funny
Doug Doug is cooked 😭
This is the most pressing matter on my mind
Eh, It's open source so we can actually get his mitts in there and mess around with it himself.
@@JungleKarmaPizzaKitchen referring to the stock game that him, atrioc, and some other streamers are playing. Doug invested in Nvidia for it 😭
Bro called it the safe option lmfaooo
Tbf this will just make ai reach the masses faster and ai still needs computing power, so this could actually be good for Nvidia long term(I'm coping because I have nvda shares)
conclusion: this is the best possible scenario for consumers
Not so fast that’s giving China a lot of data which could lead to invasion one day and whatever short term gains we get now from foreign competition are not worth it. It’s like when we gave everything in Africa away for free and helped we actually destroyed their chances at learning how it works so we cannot let China “help” us with ai while stifling a whole generation to invade later like TikTok was experimenting with I think. America has to be on par with China or this whole thing is gonna be Chinese owned and we aren’t into that ol buddy ol pal.
2:06 wow that's really impressive personal/in jokes and it's written in the style atrioc speaks, it seems so natural and if he said that in a vid I wouldn't even realize it was ai unless I knew before hand
11:25 this isn't as if chatGPT is uncensored. if you've had the ai tell you some variation of "sorry but as an AI language model.." then you've hit the topics openAI filters. Sam Altman's new best pal trump was on that list not that long ago too.
People don't seem to get that and it's strange to me.
And ChatGPT is SO MUCH worse than it was at the start. So much more censorship, much less coherent when it comes to code questions or math, etc. People keep saying the "intentional lobotomy" isn't real but it is, if you were there at the start, you'll know how good it was compared to now.
Remind me of when I asked Chatgpt how to destroy it.
It gave me a list of fictional examples as opposed to directions to OpenAI he.
Good to see openAI is covering its assets instead of protecting the world!
@JasonAtlas People aren't that smart.
@@TwilightWolf285 ppl are only hyper focused on cHiNa BAd
The DougDoug explanation was top tier
nvidia and deepseek are cooked when the world introduces GPE (glizzy powered electricity)
Open Ai crying about how Deepseek was trained on chat gpt is so funny. As if chat gpt isn’t trained on stolen data.
I CANNOT believe that trump looked at this situation, and then seriously thought the solution was to make it HARDER for companies to get more chips.
Wild
Just sending the American economy into s*** except for all the 1 percenters
A really important point that was left out here is deepseek has about a third of the parameters (smaller model, less calculations). Even more impressive is that it doesn't actually use all of these parameters when answering a query, apparently only around a tenth of it's total get activated using what's called a "mixture of experts" architecture. So it's much more computationally efficient and therefore better for the environment.
There's been tons of papers the past several months about how increasing parameter count doesn't actually make the model better past a certain point
I think the coolest thing is that even if deepseek ever gets banned, so many people already downloaded it that it won't matter because it'll just be redistributed through those people. It'll be really cool to see how content creators (like DougDoug) and the gaming industry (specifically indie games) use the new access to a free/cheap alternative
I can’t believe he didn’t mention this. It feels so important. Like, it’s out there now, for everyone. An AI at a level of GPT that can be downloaded and saved anywhere, for free. That the game changing part.
@bmobasco for sure! I was looking into integrating ChatGPT into a personal project of mine, and it gets really expensive for an amateur with little expendable cash to blow. Now I might have to revisit it with DeepSeek!
Deepseek won't get banned out right. Even with Tik Tok, the issue was and always has been where the data is stored and whether the Chinese government has access to it. If anything of Deepseek gets banned, it will just be their servers. But anyone (including Deepseek themselves) can literally just buy Amazon AWS server space and rehost it there.
just saying because its open source and because it can be locally hosted, it will probably always be easily accessible even if its banned. you cant bootleg chatgpt because they make you go thru their api, like any live service. if its as simple as downloading a zip file, theyll never be able to stop its proliferation
Haha yeah it's totally easy to stamp this stuff out, which is why nobody emulates Nintendo consoles anymore and decidedly are not doing it constantly on cheap hardware
The fact that hundreds of billions have been spent on AI and a company that spent 6 million has beaten all of them. Imagine if those hundreds of billions had been spent on something useful such as renewable energy etc.
But AI is useful.. and they are spending on renewable energy, called nuclear.. to power AI. The electric drill was invented during space race so astronauts can use them in space. Before that, there was little incentive to invent one. And this byproduct invention innovated humanity. Renewable energy is a byproduct of of the AI race.
i mean the 6 million one was built on the knowledge openai made. just because its easy to make an electric motor today doesnt mean it was just as easy in the stone age.
@nousername8162 what you mean just like how OpenAI stole all it's data... no to mention that's what openai have claimed we have little evidence and the only one is easy to dismiss.
the issue is that the 6m one wouldnt exist without the previous 500b investments. just like how the cheap su7 would not exist without the tech from the expensive porsche. the su7 basically copied and made everything from that car with minor tweaks. deep seek copied everything that openai did and optimized the code a bit to run on h800s.
(Nuclear Energy)
The Mystery Dungeon music made me ascend to a higher plane of existence, I'm truly ready to learn now
the freeze frame on dougdoug at 13:25 is absolutely FLOORING ME
I think this is one of if not the best videos you have ever made. The part where you highlighted CHINA is more competitively capitalist than america which is just a bunch of monopolies was very eye opening to me.
China literally has sponsored monopolies in the tech they lead. Do you just pay zero attention. There has never been an anti trust against BYD, Tencent, DJI in China but they always go after anti trust for companies like Nvdia or mergers of western hardware companies. This is mercantilism state sponsored but keep with the circle jerk
There's so much more to learn about our incorrect preconceptions and why we have them.
Look at the videos of the properties in the middle of air ports or highways in china, china has some of the most robust property protections in the entire world
Its so insane that people still think china is communist by anything else but name
Genuinely thinking China is anything CLOSE to communism is stupid. You need to know aprox 5% of either communism or china to know for a fact it's not true lmfao
Nvidia: "Our stock price is at an all time high. What could possibly go wrong?"
Deepseek:
In know alot of dumb ass bubble chasing blue collar workers are losing their meager cell phone "investments"
Nah, "America stock market into the Chinese flag" sold me already 💀. Has been laughing non-stop for 5 minutes I can't anymore.
22:29 poor move right there it will hurt the relationship between Tawian and the US. They will help South Korea and China grow because of low cost.
This feels like the biggest thing to happen in AI since the release of ChatGPT. It's been a while since AI news hasn't been gradual improvements but an actual market shakeup (or shakedown) like ChatGPT was. I'm again left feeling both nervous and optimistic at the power that AI will put into people's hands.
If it can’t reduce housing prices how powerful is it?
@@Delmworks I mean it might be able to replace realtors in the future, which usually charge 3% from buyer and seller. It could potentially replace other jobs, like jobs related to paperwork whne building homes or getting a loan, which should reduce costs.
@@Graveyard_Boogie
Removing Realtors won't lower housing prices. Only building new supply can do that. If you remove Realtors, then suddenly the seller just gets to charge 6% extra because people will be able to spend more on the actual price of the house and not extra fees. It is a subsidization of demand, which only makes supply side shortages worse.
@@Graveyard_Boogie yeah those people working honest jobs suck. the real money is shacking it out of peoples pockets
@@le8307 I wasn't taking a side. Someone asked if AI could reduce housing prices and I listed how it could.
I mean I do agree with you, that AI shouldn't be used to take away good jobs. However, I also see that housing prices are so crazy that I can see why people would want to go to drastic measures to reduce prices, like reducing the cost of labor that goes into creating houses.
It's not black and white. One side doesn't just suck, they both have real needs that shouldn't be ignored or minimalized.
yknow, if you reverse the 'D' and the 'P' then it's PeedSeek and that sounds kinda funny. Nvidia should try this
Like PeePants Doug
they'll have to call on Dark Jensen for such drastic measures
Nvidia can't do that, it doesn't have a P
@@NLJeffEU if you turn the d upside down it becomes a p tho. Nvipia
@@menderbug1 then it doesn't have a d
Gee, it's almost like the profit motive isn't the best way of honing a tool for actual usage.
Won't hear anything like that from the glarketer, at least not publicly. Bothers me how he can get so close to understanding the failures of capitalism but still sing the praise of competition, competition, competition as the only counter to greed.
they can't help how they've been programmed 😂
@@ausdigsAnd don't forget he says everything while streaming with OBS lol
@@ausdigs I think Atroics main goal with content like this is education; he doesn’t want to turn people off by injecting his personal political opinions. While it bothers me as well sometimes, I understand that it simply isn’t the content Atrioc wants to produce.
Lumpens
If we see a rise in LLMs that can be (reasonably) run locally, I think GPUs will be in very high demand. Sure, maybe not the highest-end ones, but if you can spend a few thousand dollars and run your own model, tuned to your needs, all from home - more people will be buying a few GPUs rather than a few people buying many.
GpU is like running your model on RAM, we really need purpose made chips because they are leaps and bounds better
@ what are you talking about? H100s are GPUs. if the dependency switches away getting models via big companies to open source, nvidia could price their cards more reasonably to target people trying to run things locally.
also, you kind of do load the entire model to ram when you're running it. that's why even if you have ~400gb of storage (required to download deepseek-r1 full model) you probably don't have the ram capacity to load and run the model.
*This is the "from a computer room supercomputer back in 1960s to personal computer PC moment"* Computer room computer: Chat GPT, personal computer: DeepSeek
“Nuclear energy will be revived by AI data center demand”
Then China is already winning on that too
but what are you then going to do with all the "drill, baby, drill" oil?
Even if they managed to ban deepseek itself, wouldn't other companies (Chinese based or not) just use the fact that it's open source to make their own, slightly different but just as cheap model? Or are there restrictions in place that would stop a company from basically just copying deepseek's homework?
The only thing the American government cares about is where the servers are located. That was the issue from the start with Tik Tok. The same will be true for Deepseek. If the US bans anything, it will just be their server location. Anyone will always be free to use the Deepseek code and put it up in America. The same is true for the Tik Tok code, it is just that Bytedance is more controlling of their code and doesn't let anyone but them use it.
OPEN SOURCE is OPEN SOURCE
@@mattbenz99 Tik Tok's data is stored in the US, but that's no enough for the congress.
@@vincentdesun The real reason is they cannot control what is seen on Tiktok re what's happening in gaga zaza.
there is a slight possibility Microsoft or Google or FB or OpenAI will comb through the deepseek code base which is publicly available online and find something allegedly copied/stolen from them, sue deepseek owner and convince US court that deepseek violated their copyright and get a court order to remove deepseek code base from most of the online public repositories. that would also basically mean nobody can openly use deepseek codebase without a threat of a lawsuit, because using it would automatically infringe on that earlier established copyright.
for example look how Nintendo made Ryujinx and Yuzu disappear.
Casual Chinese victory over shitty American Tech Oligarchs
total chinese century victory, get ready to learn mandarin buddy
Damn didn’t know Chinese quants with party connections are the average Chinese worker who keeps getting their currency devalued and savings robbed with rising unemployment
The AI Cold War except the US is regarded
@@alexc6926 They own 2 pieces of land without annual property tax, they also have free education ( no school loans), free healthcare, almost free ambulance fee, affordable grocery, 3 meals a day cheaply. How about you?
Did your great and rich democratic government pay up all your student loans and property tax for you? Do your voted government really represent you? Do they even provide you free ambulance?😂😂😂 Can you even afford 3 meals a day? Do your democratic capitalists give you affordable healthcare?
ChatGPT still has the better model slow down boyo (I know it’s cheap)
I swear ai still feels like emperors new clothes in that big business keeps acting like it does something it doesn't or can't actually do and we're told it'll change things that'll never change. But I'm an idiot so obviously I could be wrong.
replaces jobs
When AI first started becoming THE subject of every podcast I listen to 2 years ago, people swore up and down that the pace would become so fast that in two years the world would be unrecognizable.
@@astateofjake the internet is recognisable, art has disappeared from several sites, I don't know a classmate that makes actual resumes ever since ChatGPT got popular here, just throw dozens of pages into it, and pass the result through another AI to fix the grammatical mistakes.
This gives off the same vibes as Palworld vs Pokemon. I would have paid more to be in the room of the people who high end manage the Pokemon studio when they seen Palworld for the first time same with Open AI to Deepseek. It is quite entertaining to watch giant companies who stifle competitors with unfair business practices, patents, laws, and geopolitics get absolutely slammed when even a tiny little bit of alternative competition becomes accessible to the general public.
Yeah honestly we would be way better off if Nvidia was an honest market operator, they have stifled the industry with propaganda, rhetoric and false narratives around hardware performance/limits and requirements for decades, artificially trying to maneuver the market down their proprietary closed systems.
Eh the people who play Palworld will still play Pokémon and vice versa as they're still very different games. Like I doubt the next big Pokémon game isn't gonna sell as much or more than the last one. Meanwhile DeepSeek basically makes OpenAI's ridiculous costs obsolete in the eyes of the general public
This is another reminder that the free market and competition is based, monopolies are cringe
I disagree I think if Pokemon releases another game that does not do something to surpass Palworld they are going to see a massive hit in sales.
And this is with the most recent Pokemon game having nearly 1,000 people from multiple companies working on the game. And Palworld started at 10 and ended at 35.
The quality is not close between the two. The new Pokemon games play like a playstation 2 trying to be ported to pc. They have yet to improve on the concept of the game, the stories are nothing compared to the original game, and their release of characters/pokemon have only decreased in quality over time.
Palworlds comparison is like a playstation 4 game. Where it gives you the experience that you would have expected nintendo to be at 5-10 years ago. The Pals have a lot of different purposes, the combat is interactive, the ball Mechanics are better, the game is significantly less laggy, and it's just an eye opener to the public on what should be the expectation going forward.
And if they were very different games and Nintendo did not see them as a threat to their player base leaving they would not be filing those patent lawsuits and using underhanded tactics to do what they are doing.
bro palworld pokemon isnt even comparable to this, pokemon has no worry whatsoever with palworld
I'm running it on my 6 year old PC right now.
Friggen amazing.
Honestly I suspect they just used a more reliable method for determining credible sources and not just vacuuming up vast amounts of noise data.
I wouldn't be surprised if it heavily weighted scientific/educational content to establish a good baseline for reasoning and thought.
A dumbed down version of it's self referential training model can be described as giving the AI better epistemological tools to work through the information rather than just assume all information is honest/good.
re. H100 vs. H800 -- the only difference is that H800 has half the NVLink (chip to chip communication) bandwidth, which hinders large scale training. Deepseek overcame this blocker through smart engineering (fp8, DualPipe, custom PTX, etc.).
This feels like the tech equivalent of the best local restaurant just having someone‘s random chinese uncle run the entire kitchen with a cigarette in his mouth
12:45 most important moment of the video.
Fun fact: You can ask about Tiananmen Square and Winnie the Pooh in languages other than English and Mandarin and it wont be censored @11:17
or just run it locally
Run it locally with Ollama, the censorship part occurs on their servers and not on the AI itself (Which is incredibly based for a chinese company)
@@shroomer3867 it's more likely they just couldn't bake the censorship in at all.
@@shroomer3867 That is just simply not true. If you ask about anything remotley controversial regarding China, even running locally with Ollama, you will only get answers consistent with official CCP stances. It can talk about them, but it is clear that they scrubbed all training data from any non-Chinese views on topics like Taiwan, Tainanmen square or Xi Jinping.
I dont know a good glizzy joke so ill let you know when i think of one
“Glizzy”
Got one yet?
How about Glizzys nuts
@ its been 3 minutes give me a damn second
How about now?
Take your time to craft the best glizzy joke ever
The crazy thing is that this is a SIDE PROJECT for DeepSeek. It literally beats American tech companies without them even meaning to TT o TT
“American tech” is an oxymoron. Name one tech innovation the US has had over the last 20 years
America isn’t a very smart country
@@FelixFederov-u4yExactly. All Americans have done is bring together existing technologies and bring down the cost of them, which was done when interest rates were low and debt was free.
Now that interest rates have increased after COVID, Asians and Europeans are out-innovating crummy Americans.
@@FelixFederov-u4y Dih to yo crack name 1 Chinese inovation
@FelixFederov-u4y Guess where smartphones was first invented
19:17 so real
I can’t help but see the proposal for tariffs on Taiwan chips being the government and US tech companies having already shot themselves in the foot with a pistol, but when going to shoot the other foot, they decided a pistol wouldn’t do and grabbed a shotgun instead to really hammer it home 😂😭
Genuinely hurt to hear and was at least glad to see that it has just been yapping so far… I may not fear a god, but I fear this country’s government for damn sure 😅😭
21:30 The US government isn't putting up money for Project Stargate. It's Privately funded. The only thing Trump promised to do was to "use emergency declarations to expedite the project’s development, particularly regarding energy infrastructure."
Presumably that has something to do with relaxing EPA regulations.
its only fair, the us outsourced all the horribly polluted and toxic stuff to china, and now you need to bring it back home.
I think the real loser is nvidia. If the Chinese models are able to train and match benchmarks for a fraction of the cost without needing 10s of thousands of chips, as well as at runtime, then nvidia chips aren’t as valuable.
If it is truly open source, this might even be good news for Open AI. They can see exactly why and how deepseek is able to keep costs down.
You are so smart i wonder what this video is about
ehhh NVIDIA was enormously successful before AI bubble. they'll be fine. when AI bubble pops they will still be enormously successful as a company, just not idiotically irrationally bigger than one's mom successful.
shareholders will lose, NVIDIA won't
@@tnt6272 keep wondering, you’ll get it one day.
But they did need nvidia chips, they spent over $5 million to train it using nvidia H800 chips.
I am not disputing the idea that nvidia is overvalued, but nvidia's product still played a crucial role here. I don't see them as bigger losers than the other tech giants.
Let's be serious, if openai was smart they would just use deep seek on their infra
Its actually like iron monger screaming at the scientist "tony stark built this in a cave with scraps"
Then we find out that DeepSeek went out somehow and got nVidia GPUs it wasn't supposed to have access to anyway, most likely by paying way more than that they were worth, and Jensen Huang went back to whatever he was doing...
DougDoug in the shower is a very funny the BigShort reference. Also honestly a pretty accurate explanation
The thing about Jevon's Paradox: Yes, after getting a car that's twice as efficient, you're using as much fuel because you're driving twice as much.
However, You are driving twice as much. You're going twice as far, or you're doing twice as much. It's still a net increase to your productivity even if it's not being banked as fuel efficiency.
Yup. If I can cop 3.5 for $10 instead of for $45, I'm going for $10. I might still spend $100 in three months but it'll be 4.5 times as much grass
The main point of it is that in the context of the seller, it makes it so that lowering price can be worth it instead of keeping it at the higher price. Because when seeking profit at all costs the only reason you'd do something is if it makes more money.
I never liked that paradox cause I dont believe most people would double their driving time cause of more fuel efficiency. Anecdotally of course, I would simply just drive the same amount being required to spend less.
@@Ehh..... Yeah, fuel's a weird one for me. Cheaper gas will probably make me drive slightly more, but not enough to make up for the cost difference. Because my main use of gas is going to and from work and I rarely need to outside of that.
deep seek just spat in the face of "you will own nothing and be happy" and I'm loving it 😂
One thing worth noting, it is common practice in the AI space to only publish benchmarks that your specific model is best at. It would be like saying the ford f150 is a better car than a Corolla because it can haul more. Sure, if you need to do that specific thing it is, but what about all the other benchmarks? From personal testing deepseek is really good, the fact that it’s open source and free is a HUGE win. But, I see o1 and Gemini 2.0 flash outperforming it in testing, and it lacks way behind Claude 3.5 sonnet on code and math tasks. Is it ‘better’ than GPT-o1? Depends on the task. Will I be using it for experimenting and testing because it’s 95% as good and free? Absolutely.
Deepseek used multiple different tests including such random things as "The Hungarian National Highschool final exam (it's current content is a literal Hungarian government secret until the students take it, thus it's nearly impossible to train an AI specificly to do it)", and they do admit that some AI models do outperform deepseek in certain tasks.
Great video great editing ❤️
13:41 $600 billion question: the same amount that NVIDIA lost in 1 day.
If Deepseek was in fact that much cheaper and probably less bad for the environment, it feels a little nice because the environment SHOULD be the most important right now.
But it also scares me in case this triggers a even FASTER spending of energy and more emissions.
It’s all a lie. 500b is nothing more than trump giving taxpayer money to rich people. Another grift
If more energy spending means we change our energy infrastructure to more nuclear it might be better for the environment
problem is with energy genration, not with energy consumption.
Right. So naturally we pull out of the Paris agreement, the EPA, FEMA, and DRILL BABY, DRILL
I work as an software architect / engineer / data scientist, that works with AI.
There is even an issue when running the model locally.
The Deepseek R1 method of training it and the AI weights (its knowledge) is open sourced, but the training data is not (analog would be the school and books it has been train on. It could be horrible biased)
An AI model can output security exploits when run as an automated agent. Or can output content that fit the agenda of the maker of the AI model.
Also Deepseek R1 can have been trained on the answers of the AI benchmarks to artificial boost its score.
We need an open AI model where the training data is open also. There is an newly created effort for recreating Deepseek R1 with open training data, it is called Open R1.
I think most companies would not take the liability until it has proven record of its output (which OpenAI has). Or an total transparent model with its training data is open and available to scrutinize.
Isn't most of its training data directly derived from DeepSeek V3 and thus from OpenAI material?
I honestly don't think that training data can ever be open-sourced, because we all know the nature of training data contains copyrighted material.
America has all the data in the world 😂😂And they are still lazy about working 996
The real concern would be a deliberate backdoor somehow baked into the model that would allow them to control it.
18:35 incredible AI advancements aside, the Xiaomi car almost doubling the Porsche in range is insane. Crazy times
I think there is something crucial missing in the conversation over who has the best AI language model. I work in big tech in the US in a division where we are working on adapting to the AI future right now. The thing no one's talking about is, the model is just a tool, a means to an end, for reasoning over and interpreting human language. This by itself is very impressive and already quite useful when it's used as a source for answering questions, but it's not the end goal of AI. When you think about a useful AI system, it's one that can do stuff out in the world. For example, consider an AI assistant that can book a flight for you without any input from you. Or a video editor that can edit a video and add effects just based on your spoken direction, without you having to learn any special software. None of this stuff is achieved by the AI language model; it depends on software companies creating new access points for the language model to hook into so the model can control the software instead of the human. Think of it like a UI for AIs. Then the model just functions as a way to translate you the human's text input into instructions for the software to follow. The real money maker with AI is crucially which consumer-/business- facing companies can create the best software that people/companies want to use in their daily lives, and that's going to be software that can actually make your life easier by doing stuff out in the world. AI is going to make it so that useful software becomes even more useful, but in and of itself I don't believe that something like Chat GPT is the point when it comes to the future potential for AI.
And this may be my bias, but I think the US is just hands-down the best environment in the world for creating software that people and professionals use. Microsoft office, adobe, salesforce; these are all American companies, and that's not changing no matter who created the AI language model. I think part of the reason why everyone is so focused on deepseek is because there genuinely is a lot of AI hype in the sense that uninformed people are being led to believe that these AI companies like OpenAI are going to single-handedly create these AI beings that will essentially just be like a human trapped in a computer that can do anything a human can do. Maybe that'll be the case at some point, but we are so far from there technologically speaking. So I think there's this underlying fear that China will beat us in the race to create a superior AI superbeing that will forever destroy our place on the world stage, but I don't think it'll happen like that.
It seems like within a day DeepSeek is broken.
My prompt to DeepSeek is "If I were to associate Atrioc with a food what would it be?"
DeepSeek's response is "If Atrioc were to be associated with a food, it might be something like a **gourmet burger**-a versatile, high-quality dish that combines multiple layers of flavor and appeals to a wide audience. Just like Atrioc's content, a gourmet burger balances substance (the meaty, insightful business and marketing discussions) with creativity (the unique toppings and flair, akin to his entertaining and engaging streaming style). It's satisfying, approachable, yet sophisticated enough to stand out, much like Atrioc himself in the streaming and gaming world. Plus, it’s something you can enjoy while diving deep into a stream! 🍔"
Nahh, DeepSeek is just a Burgzy enjoyer rather than a Glizzy gobbler
I just asked it the same question and it responded:
"If I were to associate Atrioc with a food, it would be something spicy and full of flavor, just like his personality! Maybe Naga Bhallay (a super-spicy Indian dish made with ghost peppers) because it’s fiery, intense, and leaves an unforgettable impression-just like Atrioc’s energy and passion in everything he does. It’s the kind of heat that makes you sit up and take notice, just like how his streams light up the place! 😎"
I'm not sure how to feel about this, since I can't find any dish by that name...
In fairness I think it’s been attacked by hackers since opening- I’d wait for that to pass before I pass judgement
Burgtrioc
You have to enable both the R1 model and search with are the two buttons in the bottom of the the text box. When I did it a got the long response that ended with "Final Metaphor:
Atrioc is a gourmet Glizzy-unassuming at first glance, layered with expertise, spiced with controversy, and beloved by a community that thrives on humor and authenticity. 🌭✨
For deeper insights, explore his Marketing Monday series 10 or the evolution of the Glizzy meme in his Wikitubia profile 14."
This is the reason why I think market competition is awesome, yes it will hurt companies but so many companies are exploiting people and eventually it will have to level out
Not guaranteed and in the meantime real people are being harmed.
@LuxMachaera real people are being harmed because people are ok with corporate greed, just think instead of finding ways to stabilize the stock market they are fine with things the way they are as long as it doesn't hurt them but the second it does everyone panics,
@@LuxMachaera LOL who? People with money? Not a problem for them.
Part of market competition is the consumer base itself. In china, people are just more willing to try out other competitors products and place think less about brand loyalty. I mean for gods sake the fact that blue chat bubbles were even a point of contention in america should clue people in to just how bad the culture is for market competition.
There needs to be large regulatory but also cultrual change in the west if they want to compete with a healthier market as time goes on.
@D3R3bel yes and so many people are willing to pay more when they don't have to and somehow we look down on people trying to save money
I think the most ironic thing of all of this is when tech Bro's stole half the internet to train their AI's and a lot of people were rightfully upset, but most of the AI creators just brushed it off because of arguements like "Oh if a Human could've learned off of it our AI should be able to aswell. When all of a sudden someone does the exact same thing to them and gets out paced, it makes me happy. But also sucks because Deepseek was 100% also trained on the internet without any consent. Atleast it isnt AI art I guess lol.
brother what gibberish did you even speak.
@@itsomegali5342 thats intelligible english brother
@@arcamoo1610They are saying chatgpt stole the whole internet as training data and now deepseek ai stole chatgpt responses to train a competitor for only 6 million dollars baby. They are happy that big ai had taste of its own medicine.
@itsomegali5342 did you know about 54% of Americans have a worse reading comprehension than a 6th grader? I think youre one of them
@@itsomegali5342 Don't worry, I'm sure you'll graduate out of elementary school one day.
Bro got the whole squad editing this one
The two things that surprised me the most were the SU7 performing on the Nurburgring and OpenAI losing money on Pro subscriptions. Though, that was not the regular SU7. They call it SU7 Ultra Prototype. It can be a completely different car under the hood than the car you get for $45k. Really good video. I wonder how long the live stream was and how much had to be edited in post.
Competition is amazing for the consumer as the companies get their prices down to compete. I'm just wondering what openai and others will do when their competitors price is $0 and the production cost of openai for example is going to go up because of chip tarrifs.
It seems like an amazing day for the consumer
A really bad day as a investor
And a dreadful day as a big tech company
Well said 👏
They need their highest level to cost $600 to make money 😂😂😂
Everything will be fine, nothing ever happens.
Idk I think someone once told me that a thing happened once but that might've just been a dream I can't remember
thanks to our politicians, we have avoided a lot of small issues with short term solutions, but dont worry reality will hit back sooner or later
Me when i whitstand physical pain from all my pirate crew and one of them asked what happend :
Just sent an email to the CEO of happening. No response.
@@rizalfadil5430
Zoro best Straw Hat Pirate ✊
Wow... who would have thought that multiple tech giants throwing infinite money hand over fist at a solution looking for a problem could utterly explode in their face because they're trying to charge premium prices for something that doesn't even have a clear use case yet?
good video bro actually kept me focused on the video instead of picking up my phone and scrolling tiktok
this is actually so cool, this one situation will push ai so much further that it could ever have been
1:28 Being able to see the thought process is so damn nice bro I love this feature
would make sense that the Chinese LLMs that are coming out as free or open source are doing so to cause chaos in the market, without the plan to keep that up with further iterations of the product
These videos are ridiculously high quality. Thank you.