Wow, another great video with valuable information! The idea of rebalancing batteries for just $10 is definitely intriguing. It's interesting to hear from other viewers who have had success with manual checks and balancing techniques. The little balancer you showcased seems like a handy tool to have, even if it may not be the perfect solution for maintaining precise balance in all situations. Keep up the good work, and I can't wait to see what other knowledge you'll share next! Happy sailing! 👍🌊
I build my battery and was going to add a BMS, but so far I have been doing a manual check every 3 months and found the 24V, 8 cell 100AH LiFePo4 never lost its balance. Normal charge goes up to 3.50V, The only consumer is the inverter and it stops at 3.05V. I top balace at 3.65V. I have been living of Solar for 2 summers now and so far so good.
The main thing to check once you've torn a battery pack down is to check the internal resistance of each indiviual cell. Difference in IR between cells is the biggest cause of battery failure! The cells you have issues with probably have wildly different IRs. Adding extra active balancing power is good but at least if you can work out how out of hoof each cell IR is that'll give you an idea of whaat the active balancer has to handle.
I like the video and the little balancer. I don't know that I'll need one any time soon but it's really good information to have. Keep the good stuff coming.
I have watched a lot of your super helpful videos, thanks! Wouldn't it be cool if you could set your lithium batteries up so that you had the pigtail for cell balancing on the outside of the case? Then you could just plug in a cell balancer from time to time and or manually monitor the cell voltages as needed? I used to used to fly a lot of R/C planes that used lithium cells and you can buy these little cell balancers that just plug into the balance lead coming out of the battery. You can get these little balancers for the various lithium chemistries and they are quite inexpensive. Keep up the good work and keep the ideas coming!
Clark, the larger capacitor based balancers are better than the small one you are showing. I have both, tried both. Would gladly send you pictures. Just a tip though. try the others out. The price difference justifies the better performance. Also a modification would be in order to make the top balancer switch on above 3.4 volts (the beginning of the hockey stick)
These are the ones I am talking about. They also balance with up to 5A current depending on voltage difference. All balancers however need to only balance above 3.4 volts or thereabouts, IMHO. Great videos. Very helpful and thorough.@@Clarks-Adventure
MY link was not allowed. I am not sure why. By the way there is another quirk related to this particular model of balancer. The minimum balancing voltage is 0.02V. Only adjacent cells are checked for this voltage difference, which in theory could mean you would end up with 0.06V difference (worst case) from the first cell to the last. It is possible to do better.
Also, I've looked at those active balance boards on Ali, 99% of the sellers say these should be used for balancing only, not long term use. i.e. Use these boards instead of what you did with the power resistor and it would probably do a better job. Do not use those boards as a permanent "fix"
I like the working principle of this balancer, but since the Amazon listing details that it will not begin to operate until a 0.1V difference is sensed between the cells, it doesn’t seem suitable for keeping cells in balance in a typical system where max charge voltage is limited to the region where such gross differences in cell voltage should not show up. Seems the device could help prevent a battery pack getting way out of balance, but for maintaining a proper or acceptable balance for good practice and best efficiency, it’s not really the right unit IMHO
totally right. also checking the voltage with three diferet (and dispaired quality) meters is quite questionable when we are looking at milivolts levels.
I've found the fluke I use is very reliable. It's one made for the Asian market so it's priced cheaply. Check out our Amazon store in the description for a link.
@@Clarks-Adventure Hi Clark, have a nice sunday. yes, I agree on the Fluke. From the layout of the butoms I supose it is a 70 series (I own one priced aprox 400 usd since 20 years ago). The problem is that you compared the readings of a high quality (and accurate due to its original calibration and stability of its components) meter of several hundreds of USD with the reading of a low end chinese 10 dollars tester and with the readout of a dc current clamp. When measuring 220v it doesnt matter, but even in the 12v range there can be diferences. If you have previouslly checked the readings of the three instruments in the SAME cell and validate the accuracy of the readings, it is ok, but in such case, you should say that when presented the procedure (IMO). Otherwise, as engineer, I must doubt that the readings at milivolt level can be comparable. Good video and interesting experiment anyway. Best regards from Madrid (Spain), Jose
You must consider what I'm trying to actually measure here. I was showing that the cell voltages were trending towards each other once I fired up the balancer. Sure if I was making a claim as to where they ended up and how many millivolts the final separation was I'd have to use one meter. I've found the clamp-on meter is accurate enough at the 1 amp scale for the purposes of this demonstration from calibrating it with power resistors (and the fluke). Yes I've had crap clamp-ons before but for me this one works fine at the 1 amp and above range. That fluke is only 180 bucks by the way. I find it a great meter for the money. It's most likely a 70 inside but as I said made for a price sensitive market. I was happy when I discovered it.
I have tried many of these active balancers and find that they are horribly imprecise. when one side of the balancer activates it can cause the other side to activate even if they are perfectly in balance. maybe if Clark is on to something by limiting the active balancer with resistors it could do a better job at actually balancing a pack. I simply choose to use a "flying capacitor" active balancer which works wonderfully.
Emily and Clark , if you could choose any sailboat , what would be your choices ? ( I personally would go for the new Gunboat 80 ). Thanks for the awesome vid's 👏👍
If you mean balancers in series, yes you can. But I've seen them with many chips on one board up to 48v. There are also 1 chip boards designed for daisy chaining. For convenience I'd likely get one 48v and 1 24v module for your 24s system.
Nope it's not a power queen. It's a battery that was a mess when it arrived and I didn't review it. But watch my videos and be clever. The clues are there.
The BankManager doesn't have access to individual cell voltages. It sees the battery as a whole. If I ever made a BankManager BMS, yes I'd active balance
Please don’t balance below 3.43 volts per cell. Having a balancer operating below that greatly increases the risk of worsening imbalance at near full charge and the bms may disconnect charge. All balancers, passive or active should not be operating below 3.43 volts per cell for lifepo4 chemistry. If you don’t have a voltage controller to start the balancer, use a switch to manually maintenance the balances at full charge. I much prefer Heltec “flying capacitor” type for retrofit systems up to 320ah cells. The one shown is recommended to 30ah cells. For 16 cell (48 volt) retrofit balance nothing beats The forth generation Neey balancer. For complete bms exchange or DIY build the JK bms is the Ultimate.
cell 3 at 3.43v which is 100 percent charged and cell 4 at 3.55 volts which is 100 percent charged. When do we get to see the active balancer balance some cells?
Maybe you should watch again. Those cells weren't balanced their voltages were different, that's about the definition of imbalanced. The active balancer saw this, turned on its light and moved power.
This module is designed for battery under 30AH which is unlike to have on a boat. The B096NLHXPF module is equivalent designed for higher capacity. Also I believe that the current limiting resistor is not needed even for higher voltage differences since the balancer limits the current itself to 1.2amps.
As I said I'm not a fan of the flying capacitor balancers. And there is no current limiting in this board. I've watched it pass over 1.2 amps. Where are you getting your information? Did I miss something in the chips datasheet, it's been a while since I looked it up?
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Wow, another great video with valuable information! The idea of rebalancing batteries for just $10 is definitely intriguing. It's interesting to hear from other viewers who have had success with manual checks and balancing techniques. The little balancer you showcased seems like a handy tool to have, even if it may not be the perfect solution for maintaining precise balance in all situations. Keep up the good work, and I can't wait to see what other knowledge you'll share next! Happy sailing! 👍🌊
I build my battery and was going to add a BMS, but so far I have been doing a manual check every 3 months and found the 24V, 8 cell 100AH LiFePo4 never lost its balance. Normal charge goes up to 3.50V, The only consumer is the inverter and it stops at 3.05V. I top balace at 3.65V. I have been living of Solar for 2 summers now and so far so good.
The main thing to check once you've torn a battery pack down is to check the internal resistance of each indiviual cell. Difference in IR between cells is the biggest cause of battery failure! The cells you have issues with probably have wildly different IRs. Adding extra active balancing power is good but at least if you can work out how out of hoof each cell IR is that'll give you an idea of whaat the active balancer has to handle.
I want to go out and buy some Li batteries so I can go and out all this knowledge to use
I like the video and the little balancer. I don't know that I'll need one any time soon but it's really good information to have. Keep the good stuff coming.
I have watched a lot of your super helpful videos, thanks! Wouldn't it be cool if you could set your lithium batteries up so that you had the pigtail for cell balancing on the outside of the case? Then you could just plug in a cell balancer from time to time and or manually monitor the cell voltages as needed? I used to used to fly a lot of R/C planes that used lithium cells and you can buy these little cell balancers that just plug into the balance lead coming out of the battery. You can get these little balancers for the various lithium chemistries and they are quite inexpensive. Keep up the good work and keep the ideas coming!
Yep. I wish.
The cases are horrible to open.
Always great information. Cheers!
Clark, the larger capacitor based balancers are better than the small one you are showing. I have both, tried both. Would gladly send you pictures. Just a tip though. try the others out. The price difference justifies the better performance. Also a modification would be in order to make the top balancer switch on above 3.4 volts (the beginning of the hockey stick)
I defer to you if you have tried both
These are the ones I am talking about. They also balance with up to 5A current depending on voltage difference. All balancers however need to only balance above 3.4 volts or thereabouts, IMHO. Great videos. Very helpful and thorough.@@Clarks-Adventure
MY link was not allowed. I am not sure why. By the way there is another quirk related to this particular model of balancer. The minimum balancing voltage is 0.02V. Only adjacent cells are checked for this voltage difference, which in theory could mean you would end up with 0.06V difference (worst case) from the first cell to the last. It is possible to do better.
Also, I've looked at those active balance boards on Ali, 99% of the sellers say these should be used for balancing only, not long term use. i.e. Use these boards instead of what you did with the power resistor and it would probably do a better job. Do not use those boards as a permanent "fix"
Thank YOU ✨👍🏻
I like the working principle of this balancer, but since the Amazon listing details that it will not begin to operate until a 0.1V difference is sensed between the cells, it doesn’t seem suitable for keeping cells in balance in a typical system where max charge voltage is limited to the region where such gross differences in cell voltage should not show up.
Seems the device could help prevent a battery pack getting way out of balance, but for maintaining a proper or acceptable balance for good practice and best efficiency, it’s not really the right unit IMHO
totally right. also checking the voltage with three diferet (and dispaired quality) meters is quite questionable when we are looking at milivolts levels.
I've found the fluke I use is very reliable. It's one made for the Asian market so it's priced cheaply. Check out our Amazon store in the description for a link.
@@Clarks-Adventure Hi Clark, have a nice sunday.
yes, I agree on the Fluke.
From the layout of the butoms I supose it is a 70 series (I own one priced aprox 400 usd since 20 years ago).
The problem is that you compared the readings of a high quality (and accurate due to its original calibration and stability of its components) meter of several hundreds of USD with the reading of a low end chinese 10 dollars tester and with the readout of a dc current clamp.
When measuring 220v it doesnt matter, but even in the 12v range there can be diferences.
If you have previouslly checked the readings of the three instruments in the SAME cell and validate the accuracy of the readings, it is ok, but in such case, you should say that when presented the procedure (IMO). Otherwise, as engineer, I must doubt that the readings at milivolt level can be comparable.
Good video and interesting experiment anyway.
Best regards from Madrid (Spain), Jose
You must consider what I'm trying to actually measure here. I was showing that the cell voltages were trending towards each other once I fired up the balancer. Sure if I was making a claim as to where they ended up and how many millivolts the final separation was I'd have to use one meter.
I've found the clamp-on meter is accurate enough at the 1 amp scale for the purposes of this demonstration from calibrating it with power resistors (and the fluke). Yes I've had crap clamp-ons before but for me this one works fine at the 1 amp and above range.
That fluke is only 180 bucks by the way. I find it a great meter for the money. It's most likely a 70 inside but as I said made for a price sensitive market. I was happy when I discovered it.
I have tried many of these active balancers and find that they are horribly imprecise. when one side of the balancer activates it can cause the other side to activate even if they are perfectly in balance. maybe if Clark is on to something by limiting the active balancer with resistors it could do a better job at actually balancing a pack. I simply choose to use a "flying capacitor" active balancer which works wonderfully.
Emily and Clark , if you could choose any sailboat , what would be your choices ?
( I personally would go for the new Gunboat 80 ).
Thanks for the awesome vid's
👏👍
I've had Temptress for over 30 years because I haven't found anything I like better.
So I'd say Creekmore 45
@@Clarks-Adventure Woww , i get it.
Could you build them in series and then stack in parallel...for example like 24s
PS the cheap balancing 1.2 amp vidio
If you mean balancers in series, yes you can. But I've seen them with many chips on one board up to 48v. There are also 1 chip boards designed for daisy chaining.
For convenience I'd likely get one 48v and 1 24v module for your 24s system.
The 5amp heltec active balancers are better.
Clark, did you say this is a Power Queen 100Ah LFP for this balancer test? Thanks!
Nope it's not a power queen. It's a battery that was a mess when it arrived and I didn't review it.
But watch my videos and be clever. The clues are there.
@@Clarks-Adventure I will, and thanks!
would you put this in the BankManager™.?
The BankManager doesn't have access to individual cell voltages. It sees the battery as a whole.
If I ever made a BankManager BMS, yes I'd active balance
I got the 8s balancier, do you know what pug the Bms used ?@@Clarks-Adventure
Please don’t balance below 3.43 volts per cell. Having a balancer operating below that greatly increases the risk of worsening imbalance at near full charge and the bms may disconnect charge. All balancers, passive or active should not be operating below 3.43 volts per cell for lifepo4 chemistry. If you don’t have a voltage controller to start the balancer, use a switch to manually maintenance the balances at full charge. I much prefer Heltec “flying capacitor” type for retrofit systems up to 320ah cells. The one shown is recommended to 30ah cells. For 16 cell (48 volt) retrofit balance nothing beats The forth generation Neey balancer. For complete bms exchange or DIY build the JK bms is the Ultimate.
cell 3 at 3.43v which is 100 percent charged and cell 4 at 3.55 volts which is 100 percent charged. When do we get to see the active balancer balance some cells?
Maybe you should watch again. Those cells weren't balanced their voltages were different, that's about the definition of imbalanced.
The active balancer saw this, turned on its light and moved power.
@@Clarks-Adventure If you don't mind, please redo the test and have one cell be 3.2 volts and the other be 3.31 volts so we know the balancer works!
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Great video but...um...I think you forgot to remove your watch. Just saying.
Yep.
This module is designed for battery under 30AH which is unlike to have on a boat. The B096NLHXPF module is equivalent designed for higher capacity.
Also I believe that the current limiting resistor is not needed even for higher voltage differences since the balancer limits the current itself to 1.2amps.
As I said I'm not a fan of the flying capacitor balancers.
And there is no current limiting in this board. I've watched it pass over 1.2 amps.
Where are you getting your information? Did I miss something in the chips datasheet, it's been a while since I looked it up?
@@Clarks-Adventure it’s written in the product description
It's a lie. China does that.
But feel free to install it anyway you like
BMS and battery balancer are not the same thing.
Most BMSs contain a balancer.
But, you are right and we shouldn't think of them as 1 thing so we can remember we can add a balancer