I'm Gonna Say It, The Dually Antenna Is A Game Changer!
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
- Developed by Justin, K4QCD, The Dually Antenna Is Both A 49: & 9:1 Antenna At The Same Time!! I'm Going To Show How To Build It, & How To Make A Linked EFHW & 41' Random Wire Antenna With The Same Wire!
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Multi device antennas! This is exactly what our hobby needs, bravo k4qcd!
Hello Mike, solder first then cut. This will help insure you have a long-lasting solder joint on the mag wire. Keep the videos coming!
Solder first? Why is that? I usually solder first for convenience, but clipping the lead puts a strain on the joint if it's already soldered, but not if you clip it first, then solder it. So I often reheat my connections after clipping the leads to remove any stress that occurred from clipping the lead. BTW, I'm NASA certified at soldering, so I'd really like to know your reasoning so I can relay it to my soldering class students.
@@johnwest7993 Thank you for your comment. Well we are not sending this stuff to the moon. So I don't see why you need to hear my reasoning. Please go ahead and show this video to your students on how to solder. BTW I'm not a Ham so I really don't know how to solder.
@@johnwest7993 rocket science soldering.....in space, no one can hear you curse....a bad solder job
@@johnwest7993 I was in the industry working as a solderer for one of the leading manufacturers of testing electronics Tektronix. If you teach students to cut first you are NOT a professional nor do you have the industrial, manufactural, or professional experience. ALSO NASA certified is for space fights not earth electronics. There is minute stress on anything being used in space compared to the use cases on Earth. Soldering for space is a different beast all together.
@ZeroHarry not sure why you have to insert the unwanted snark for a serious question. But in any case you not being a ham operator is a blessing considering our society is based on congeniality and mutual support. You would find empty air when trying to contact folks not interested in your NASA level greatness.
Okay Mike, Your demonstration was convincing enough that I don't have to wait for Ape, I am getting one. Just as soon as I can afford one! Great video buddy!!!
What a neat idea to have the 49:1 and 9:1 back to back and a cool hammy kit to assemble. Neat idea and great video content! Thanks & 73!
Thanks for your time on Ham Radio. Love the shirt.
Very cool antenna! Great looking solder work, also!
I love that the PCB board antennas are getting more popular. They look so clean and are so convenient. Nice innovation here.
Thanks for the video! At the moment they are out of stock, but he will notify when the next shipment comes in through his page in Facebook. I can't wait!
As a ham who used to deejay at KTRU, I love the thumbnail image. Looks very much like a cut up and reassembled KTRU bumper sticker. Still all the rage all over Texas. Perfect way to decorate your old Datsun.
That looks like a fun build as well as an effective antenna
Such amazing results, I must build one, thanks for the great video, so informative.... What were the final lengths, have a diagram shared anywhere? Love the Carabiner links.
The Ape joke was on point. 😂
Lol!
Right because a lot of Mike's videos already include Satan. Don't need another cat video. 😂
Cat videos are so yesterday.
I didn't get the joke. What am I missing?
You show why I relay like random wire antenna most of time.
I love the format. Its AWESOME!
Have you used your Rig Expert, nanoVNA or other equipment to measure Q or get an idea of insertion loss to determine efficiency?
If not, that might be a good video.
Keep up the good work!
This is an awesome design! I need to get one.
Such a great video, I want those results, have to build one too
I like using mini/micro banana plugs and I use plastic 3-hole tent guy line adjusters. It just makes things a little more compact. I loop the ends of the wire in. Zip tie and heat shrink then link the wires when needed
I loved ape joke can’t wait to hear his response, nice build thanks for sharing
sweet! love having options
Great video Mike. What wire did you use for your radiating element?
Excellent video and review, Mike. Maybe I'll send you a few rubber bands, you should have some in the shack. 😁 Looks like a great product, Justin had better order more boards and ramp up his production line, everybody who watched this will want one!
Wow, sold out already! Great video Mike, hello from Beaumont!
Excellent work. Nice antenns
Isn't "this" actually a transformer? You said antenna repeatedly and consistently throughout the video, but it seems to me that the antenna is actually the collection of lengths of wire that you attached to this thing. For some of us new-ish ham operators, what seems to be a Transformer in your hand while you keep saying antenna is incredibly confusing. Hopefully, I've at least got this right, but if not please set me straight and explain it to me! Thank you.
If you observe that the 9:1 transformer is a random wire matching device. The wire of the antenna is still there but presenting this to a 50ohm load (the TRX), on the other side is a 49:1 EFHW or end fed half wave that also has a wire antenna on the output of the transformer. This again presents the radio with a 50ohm load to an essentially unbalanced antenna. 9:1 transformers are often called UNUN or unbalanced (your 50ohm TRX) and Unbalanced antenna (random impedance). The antenna is still present but an impedance matching transformer is required to match the impedance of the TRX. The trailing wire is the antenna…. That never changes but the impedance does change. Read up on impedance matching transformers.
Very nice video! what version of the Antenna analyzer do you got?
I've always wanted to make an antenna and this one seems to be the kit I'm looking for. The challenge I would like to see is encase this into a water/weather proof case and run the tests again.
Another excellent video 🎙
Just ordered a kit. Thanks for the heads up, Murder Mike
Great video.
What's the advantage of having a 9:1 if the 49:1 works?
I wouldn't cut wire flush with the pcb. Leave some length like 1mm above the board and solder to that. When you are done soldering, you should see the wire. After a few years, you will have fracturing from thermal cycling like the way you did it. N9XR
Mike you sure make it look easy. (you have not seen me wrap or soder anything. lol) Thanks for the great video as usual.
All thanks to the magic power of editing, I assure you 🤣
Practice with cheap soldering kits. It makes soldering go smoothly and quickly.
The correct antenna wire length will be slightly affected by the proximity to the ground and the conductivity of the ground itself, as will the impedance at the feedpoint. Antennas are always interactive to any nearby conductors, ('nearby' being within a wavelength or 2 on the band of operation,) and that's exactly what the ground is.
What a cool custom antenna build from thasmokinape
Thanks Mike for the video
You bet!
Looks good. I wonder how well it would preform configured as a CFD or OCF dipole?
Probably pretty terrible. It's not made for that.
Built one of these last week. just need to get out and test.
Do it!
Nice feature to have 9:1 on the same board (in case of emergency and radom wire). But on the other hand, I don't see other advantage. Maybe I missed something.
I've been making both for years but never thought to combine them. Nice. I'd probably do a 40efhw and add a link for 84 foot random.
I wound a 1:1 balun and put a switch on it to turn it into a 4:1 balun. I use it with my G5RV when portable to aid tuning and it works very well. I can switch between the two ratios to get the best tune.
Good idea. You can do a similar thing with a 9:1, tapping the winding at 4:1.
Interesting, just wondering about that crossover though, quite a number of youtubers (and myself included) have done tests between the Xformer efficiency between the crossover and normal "straight wound" xfomers and the crossover method has always come out as less efficient. Would be interesting to see what this setup would test at if it was a straigh wound coil.
Great design and you did a great job building it. Your getting damn good at winding wire and soldering. Did he say where he got his PCB built? Also curious how much that cost him. Thanks again for more great antenna education.
Neat design! Might have to pick one of these kits up. I love winding coils! Also, a few notes on 9:1s and a couple of ideas you can do with that setup. Counterpoises for the 9:1 - make sure it's at least 60% the total length of the radiator and also NOT cut to resonance frequency anywhere. It makes it tune weird. Second, make sure it's not within 45 degrees of the direction of the radiator. 180 degrees out of phase away from the radiator is best, but perpendicular is okay. I try to never exceed 90 degrees if I can. Last, 9:1s like longer wires. 41 feet or 44 feet is okay, but you'll get better performance and Q out of it without it being a dummyload. If you tack a random length on the end of that 49:1 wire that makes it be like 72ft or 98.5ft, it will tune way better and give you 160-10, maybe even 6m. Also, I found the best config for my 9:1 has been an Inverted L. Take that 40ft mast amd your GIgaParts 20 footer and make an L out of it, give it that ol hawk tuah and you'll own the world!
Your video really helped them out. I went to buy mine and they are sold out. i’ll just have to wait till they’re back in stock 73
Nice bit of kit.
Every time the wire goes into the center of the toroid is one turn.
Did you use a negative/counterpoise in the setup at all?
Excellent
This is super-sexy and you didn't ruin it with your filming either 🤣 Seriously tho, good job to both of you!
Well that's why I put Ape in it. If it were just me in the video it prob wouldn't have been so good.
Id love to see a demo of the performance too (compared to a dipole and some dedicated antennas). Remember a dummy load isnt a good antenna but does have flat swr. Sure it tunes up well, but how much of that is transformer / tuner loss and how well does it actually tx and receive? Some A/B testing would be great.
Thanks!
Mike, what did you use to make the loops in the antenna wire? Is that a wire crimp or something else?
All the links are in the description.
Built mine last night. Waiting on some bnc adapters
Justin Is awesome love ThaSmokinApe videos
Kool....I may have to have one of these....
How did you determine length for watch band to know it was a little shorter for each band?
You use the formula 468/frequency which would give you 66.8' at 7Mhz Or if you're metric, use 300/freq then divide that in half again for a half wave giving you 21.42 meters at 7MHz. These are approximate numbers though. You always want to cut the wire a little long and trim to resonance. Plus I've made countless EFHW's and just kinda know how long each element should be. I don't really care though. It doesn't seem to affect its performance. I just made 104 contacts in an hour with it yesterday.
Just as a hint to help hold things in place use a piece of masking tape or other tape that is not uber sticky.
Any chance you can try Faraday cloth as a radial? Curious how that would work. Thanks
Honestly probably not. One, I don't own Faraday cloth, and B, I can't see how that would be more practical than using the 26AWG wire I'm using, even if it does work. Kinda defeats the whole "small and compact" thing for me. For loaded verticals I can see how that would be more practical than setting up a whole radial field, but for an end fed, just throw a wire out.
@@hamradiotube ok
After watching your video Mike, I have been triggered! Digging the Pink Floyd shirt!
Thanks for showing how to build that BALUN. I'm sure it will inspire some guys who are afraid to build their own antennas.
Nice job! 👍
Lol here's TheSmokinApe's channel www.youtube.com/@TheSmokinApe
What gauge or diameter was the enameled wire?
I dig it!
I would have prefered that the specs on the toroid be mentioned - at least on the vendor's page - so we could better judge power handling.
I bought the ARRL EFHW kit two (or three?) Field Days ago and, after extending it to 80M, have been happy with it. (It has a nice rain-proof enclosure that has been outside for 2+ years now.) But on digital, pushing anything close to 100W tends to cause heating of the toroid. I build a second, using two FT240-43 toroids, and have not seen any heating issues (though I mostly operate near 25W for PSK or FT8).
Perhaps I'll experiment with a 9-to-1 and a "random length" antenna.
Thanks for the effort put into all these videos.
Nice idea.
Very impressive…as you said, game changer! 🎉 Cheers.. 73,
Great video, Love the Smokin Ape:
Me too!
Double your pleasure, double your fun...good job.
Lol, that just reminded me of SpaceBalls!
@@hamradiotubegum commercial. Showing my age.
@@Philip-KA4KOE Also the Twins scene in Spaceballs.
How much power can each unun handle with digital, CW & SSB?
He rates them for 100 watts SSB. He doesn't have a rating for CW and digital but I suspect you'd be able to push at least 50 watts no problem.
My dually has been shipped
How much power does it handle?
He rates it for 100 watts SSB. He doesn't have a digital or CW rating but I would guess at least 50 watts.
The insulation reduces the velocity factor of the aerial wire a little. Maybe a couple of percent but sometimes a lot more. So does skin effect, so most aerials I make end up about 5% shorter than my simpletons's maths suggests (Lambda in metres = 300/F in MHz).
Lolz. Nice shoutout to the King of Trigger, Smokin' Ape!
Not bad for a old ham Radio dude
Bumped into some of your videos. Cool stuff ;-) I like this antenna a lot. Will try one myself. I have a 49:1 Hyendfed at this moment with 23 meters of antenna wire (including the 80m coil). I would like to experiment with the 9:1 version. Just subscribed to your channel. 73 Phil ON4VP
Mike, I suggest you put the wing nut on first then do the PCB connection. That way you can't loose the wing nuts in the field. N6JAI
Which one is Pink?
I don't know if it already was sold out but it is now.
Sold out
What about common mode current?
Think about reflected current instead.
The gold and red is pretty.
It's like Christmas every day
Too bad we can't get magnet wire in patriotic colors.
Just like great grandma's old ribbon candy.
damnit man! you just made me buy another antenna!!!
Lol I was using this antenna when we made contact today.
Thanks👍
I'll tell Smokin' Ape you sent me 😆😆🤣🤣😂😂
Nice!
What ever you have calculated for bare wire, you will find things to be approximately 2% shorter for insulated wire.
I hope it's not the case, but this great overall SWR makes me think of quite a lossy transformer, actually.
I have probably somewhere in the neighborhood of ~50 EFHW antennas. A lot of them look as good as this one in terms of SWR and they all perform very well. There is some loss in the transformer, but as with everything in ham radio, there's going to be a compromise somewhere. Even a Yagi-Uda with 50dB gain is still a compromise. It's really good in the direction it's pointing, but isn't so good every other direction. The compromise with an EFHW is that you get a multi band resonant antenna (for the 49:1) that is omni-directional, but you do lose "some" power because you are transforming that high impedance, roughly 2500 Ohms, down to 50. You just gotta pick your poison. Dipoles would arguably be the most efficient wire antennas, but they are only good for one band. And that's why I'm obsessed with antennas! They all do something really well, but some compromise is going to be made somewhere.
I have the HF Kits (ARRL) EFHW and don't see that low an SWR across multiple bands so am a little suspicious as well. It would be interesting to test 2 units back-to-back to measure the transformer loss. Given limited resources however, the ability to be up and running quickly on the right band at the right time is usually more valuable for effective communication than the small transformer loss. It seems like a reasonable compromise for the intended use. I tend to be obsessed with performance so travel with a 17' telescoping whip with 4 wave lengths of radial wire, and a 40-10 EFHW to adapt to what supports are available.
Thanks for sharing, looks like some others copied your video. 73.
Holy shit that intro
Sold Out
There will be more in stock I'm sure.
Mike, K8MRD, is a good salesman.
I envy the freebie crap, but hey, you have the RUclips channel, I don't. Excellent video. I think I might be making one of these things because I do a lot of mobile operation. I love my Yaesu FT-818ND. And in order to get it, you're going to have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands. Head nod to Charlton Heston, and other pew-pew items which must be pried from my cold, dead hands.
Can you use civilised measurements for all details?
Different size wire has different inductance and capacitance compared to thicker wire
an antenna that sounds like your saying my name Dooley
TRIGGGGGEEERRREED!
BTW that IS pretty bad-ass!
Take my money
This looks just like the Chameleon 4010 which came out some time ago.
Except the Chameleon 4010 uses a single toroid wound to 49:1 this is a dual antenna.
@@Plasmastorm73_n5evv the Chameleon 4010 uses 2 toroids. The difference, is that one is used as an EFHF and the other is intended to be used as a dipole. I still like this idea and will probably buy this antenna but it is not unique in its design.
Sold out 😪
And triggered by so many sponsored cat videos 🐱
Came here for the disappointment and was not disappointed 😉
I like it, thanks a lot🎉
73 de Willi R. , DL9WR ☀️
Bought mine. Terriffic build video. He should put a QR Code link to your video in the package !
Good idea!
A well selected random wire and a well made 9:1 should barely need a tuner. Wire length matters a lot it's just that it matters in a weird way.
Liked it. Too bad you did not get better results.
Great video again..
Paul K1YOU
Why not add a tap at six turns on the EFHW transformer ? This will give the 9:1 and 49:1 impedance transformations as required and use one toroid instead of two. This method will save money on toroids and will reduce the weight by half !
Perfect, now one can call both the United Federation of Planets and the Klingon High Council at the same time....
I would be truly impressed if you wound both on one core to conserve weight.
Can that be done?
@@hamradiotube sure, multiple taps
You would have to do two separate sets of windings. But, would they interact with each other. Someone try and let us know 😂
Wow had a friend from nom totally bland