Dayum, bro... This is today when I came up with a question if anyone made a bicycle with three motors - rear and front hubs plus the middrive and your video is the answer! It's so cool to know there are enthusiasts like you!
I have to add it looks like the middrive + rear hub is enough. I mean there's no need for the front motor, because it's always not dynamically loaded (center mass is always on the rear whenever you accelerate) it's even less loaded by mass when you go up the hill so it's spinning through and you loose traction. The conjunction between the middrive and the rear hub saves both motors from overheating and it also saves the transmission (the chain/belt, cassette etc)
I hope you figure out a way to add a front motor on 20" wheel bikes my friend. so many of us are waiting for that! Put on your thinking had and DO IT ! Cheers!
🐍 You're design is creating more front wheel spin with more rear weight. Put a small rack above the front tire and mount your battery there instead of hanging off the back of the bike.🖖🤙
“I am going the speed limit . . . uphill.” that cracked me up. The mustang driver needed to take a chill pill. Can’t wait to receive my dual motor and battery kit for my freedom keep up the great content!
Put a 30 amp hour battery over the front wheel, that will definitely give you some more traction, even though it may be a lot harder to handle and steer
Good video! That thing is a Beast. When I had my Grizzly, I bit it bad once @ a light, starting out on full AWD because there was loose gravel in the road. After that I would always remember to turn the switch to RWD from a stop and then switch it to AWD after I got to about 8MPH (or lean waaay forward during an AWD start.) Eventually I just replaced those stock master/slave controllers, with two independent ones (using 2 throttles) and I would just leave the front motor on PAS 1 and use both throttles when I got up to speed. It gave me more control & limited me from being laughed at by bratty kids in their school buses.
I'm 73 and bought a cityscape, heybike about two and a half years ago.. it has 350 watt rear motor with a 10 amp hour battery under the seat. It was never enough to climb the hills so I added a 1200 watt front motor and a 20 amp hour battery ,now it does everything I wanted and more, the 350 watt came with a right hand thumb throttle.and the front motor came with a right hand grip twist throttle, when I first take off I hit the thumb throttle with the PAS on number 1 and then use the twist throttle, ,,to climb real steep hills I put the PAS on number 7 and PRESS THE THUMB THROTTLE and twist the hand throttle, THE SMALL MOTOR PEAKS OUT AT 500 watts and the large motor peaks out at 1450 watts , giving me a total of 1950 watts to climb the hills,
put one of your 40a controllers on that mid drive and get a custom rear cog set made with a 42 tooth as your largest cog and that thing will flip over ahha. im working on a 750 watt front and 2000 watt rear to control the shimmy and dirt sliding
Thank you for your over the top craziness. I don't understand why it seems so hard to prevent wheel spin by just limiting front RPM to match rear RPM. This should not be a difficult thing.
It looks like adding a mid drive is much better if one is NOT doing it for speed, but for added power for climing hills or riding the bike on dirt. What do you think?
Middrive motors are geared ones, so they have much more torque than hub direct-drive motors. Usually middrive motors have more torque than geared hub motors. Bafang for example has a line if middrive motors powered between 250 and 1000 watt and the torque is 100 to 160 Nm If the middrive is paired with the transmission you multiply the torque of it three times easily. So it can be 300 to 480 Nm of torque just with one middrive motor which is already enough and you can add up to aroun 100 Nm with some very strong geared hub motor (usually they are 35-65Nm)
Huge respect for the bar mirror they make any cycle user sensible responsible respectable these are must on cycle e-bikes and motorcycles saves you looking over your shoulder when you can just check mirror and be done ☑️ with checking! Before blindspot check
I love riding my Scrambler similar to the Cocaine bike. 3000w+ BBSHD mid with asi controller and geared hub pulls the front wheel off the ground on a 140lb bike. I can make it 5Kw but pretty happy just the way it is. Funny thing is I putz around at 15mph most of the time.
That’s cool and all but my WALLKE H9 60aH AWD out of the box hits 33.4 mph flat and I hit 42.2 mph downhill ….. stock ! I’m 265 and it has a ton of power! You need to check out the H9 , it’s a good bike !
I have the Rad the same as yours and added a front motor just like you did. I actually considered for a long while about putting a mid drive motor on too and researched it for some time. I ultimately chose not to because the bike really does go fast enough and pulls me up any hill no problem. It simply wasn't worth the cost (around £1000) for something I'd get little to no use from. I still wonder though, what would the Rad be like with that mid drive!
Not only did that guy pass you, he did it in a no passing zone! Awesome climb... do you know how steep it is? They have phone apps that let you measure. Steepest one I go on is 40%.
I am not sure how the mid drive works with the rear hub, would it harm the system if the mid drive was more powerful than the rear hub ? using a larger volt battery and controller ? I am interested in getting more top speed and hill climb dependable speeds from by 2000w dual motor Amazon bike (the Benxi seeker 24)
This makes me re-think my decision to trade in my wired freedom for a dual motor furious... I've taken the freedom on some intense offroad hills just fine, and even did some towing, now I'm worried the furious won't be as capable...
Wow. Is this the first time you ventured into the wonderful world of mid drive DIY motors? If so, you need to put a CYC Pro and 72V battery on a fixed tail MTB. I would be interested in your perspective of that bike considering you have so much experience with premade ebikes. Including powerful ones like the wired freedom and your frankenstien Rad Bike. Seems we are all on a mission to build the ultimate e bike for ourselves.
I have one of the philodo DUEL motor bukes, about to add a MID DRIVE. -- i have STEEP STEEP hills where i live, i DRAIN my battery in 3 to 4 miles if not carefull.
Funny this video showed up in my feed. I was just talking about this with someone yesterday. Ordered a bike this week. And it's not enough power for my needs, I was going to upgrade everything. But he suggested putting a 1000watt mid motor. After seeing your video. I think it's a done deal. I can pretty much leave the stock system. And add power through the mid drive. I'm wondering about the peddle assist. Would I just leave it original. Or change it to the mid motor. ??
Are you able to change setting for just the front motor? Maybe if you reduce its power down to the equivalent of a 750W you may get less front wheel slip. Especially true if you can change the power curve to be more tame. Don't change the mid drive though as it can always be used for launch mode. 😎
Juiced is supposed to come out with their new Hyper Scorpion rendition this year. Said they were going to last year but no show. Gotta be something wicked good gotta be as the pressure is on them. I mean they changed game last time and for me think they’ll do it again. Hope so! That would be a F’n A Bad Ass bike😲.My thought is the got to better bikes like this and the others on the market. Man if they do that it’ll be a killer bike, hope they don’t stink it up🦨
Since I have a krusader dual hub 500 watt bafangs. So I could have better hill climbing ability couldn’t I just add a bbshd, separate throttle, battery etc ?
@@CitizenCycle925 you might want to reference the movie in your videos. I’ve never heard of it and thought the name might be a dark reveal of your private life. A lot of people will not immediately understand.
This might not be worth it but who knows, have you tried adding ankle weights on the front tire maybe on each side of the headlight? 2x5lbs or maybe a little more ... just wondering
Mr. Citizen, Do You plan on attending The Electrify Expo in Long Beach on June 1 and 2??? E-Cells E-bikes and Owner David Cleveland will be at Booth 806. A chance to meet David, ask questions, and Test Ride E-Cells full line of E-bikes. Enjoy The Experience of riding a Great E-bike. Have Fun at The Expo!!!
You’re a great guy you sure know how to live life to the fullest enjoying life is all about I watch all of your video thumbs up click like you name it, great job I think now its time to step it up adding upgrade to hub drive 3000w 5000w 72v battery that’s my next step affordable price but the one I want is NBPOWER 72v 8000w QS 273 its way too expensive maybe you can do both more content more video you never know these kind of project bring more peoples into your channel the speed is the key 🔑
Do you have a store? I need a 48 V maybe 15 to 20 amp hour battery with a matching controller to run a 500 W rear wheel motor. Found a old junker and the motor is still good but they cannibalize the battery and controller. Do you have a recommendation if you don’t have a store Where I might be able to purchase that? Thank you for your video. Your videos are excellent really appreciate your input.
I am start up a store but i dont have controllers for sale yet, working on that, i see the need in the market. You'll probably need a wiring harness and display as well.
@@CitizenCycle925 Thank you for letting me know. Yes I will need that too. Do you have any resources possibly? Thanks for your videos. You have really educated us on the eBike community.
I have a grizzly v2. Will the factory front controler work with an add on mid drive, disconnecting the front hub, of course? Just looking for a mid drive/rear hub combo without two dispays.
I added a bafang BBS02 mid drive motor to this grizzly. The controller was internal with the motor. Not sure how you would bypass this using a different controller. Sounds like a wiring nightmare to me, I like having the extra screen to monitor the separate system.
Ok, i have another question High end, high wattage, dual drive scooters like the Nambi have a function on their display/controler setup that allows the rider to send less power to the front motor to prevent wheel slippage. Since the controlers on the ariel grizzly are seriously under-rated and front wheel slippage on steep gravel hills is a serious problem on this bike, have you ever considered a controller swap? Thanks for your informative videos.
I installed a 750w mid drive motor on my friends Super73, and he can keep up with my Duo motor Radrover pulling my dog in her trailer. When you get a fwd kit for 20in wheel, I'll build him a tri motor ebike like your cocaine 🐻
😳 Bryan, great video presentation and ebike innovations. But naming it "Cocaine"?? REALLY?? That seems to encourage a neighbor's kid to say "I'm riding on *COCAINE*." With the awesome power and torque that you innovated with that ebike, add some blue with the yellow scheme and perhaps rename it "Fallout 1" with that theme's unique fonts. After all, with three motors and that kind of torque, it should be able to get over and through all kinds of nuclear fallout debris that those devil's in the White House is trying to get us in. Keep up the good work! 👍
Your "4 low" is just essentially just more power to rear wheel.. Wouldn't it make more sense just to put a bigger, more powerful rear motor on there instead? That front motor seems kinda pointless, and then you have all the extra weight in batteries and the front and mid drive motor. Just get rid of all that, get a good battery and a more powerful rear hub motor, and you essentially have the same setup, but way less unnecessary weight and potential problems.. 4 low being just a more powerful rear motor, but using 2 motors and 2 batteries, makes no practical sense. I get that it's a hobby bike, but not something anyone else should be doing for sure.
I'm more madness then him..same bike but I have the 2000 watt bafang middrive 52v 160 Newton meter..and I shark 20ah 52v to go underneath the other shark battery..then I can destroy your citizenship bike beyond your 44 miles speed and I'm talking flat no hills..I'm from jersey
Dayum, bro... This is today when I came up with a question if anyone made a bicycle with three motors - rear and front hubs plus the middrive and your video is the answer!
It's so cool to know there are enthusiasts like you!
I have to add it looks like the middrive + rear hub is enough. I mean there's no need for the front motor, because it's always not dynamically loaded (center mass is always on the rear whenever you accelerate) it's even less loaded by mass when you go up the hill so it's spinning through and you loose traction.
The conjunction between the middrive and the rear hub saves both motors from overheating and it also saves the transmission (the chain/belt, cassette etc)
Nice name! Cool bike! 3 motors and 3 batteries! Can’t wait to feel all that AWD power! Great channel!
I hope you figure out a way to add a front motor on 20" wheel bikes my friend. so many of us are waiting for that! Put on your thinking had and DO IT ! Cheers!
Working on it!
Thanks so much, so the rear hub with mid drive is the King. Strong and not dangerous like the front hub motor.
Only concern is if the hill is really steep the front wants to wheelie
🐍 You're design is creating more front wheel spin with more rear weight.
Put a small rack above the front tire and mount your battery there instead of hanging off the back of the bike.🖖🤙
“I am going the speed limit . . . uphill.” that cracked me up. The mustang driver needed to take a chill pill. Can’t wait to receive my dual motor and battery kit for my freedom keep up the great content!
Karen: "CLASS 3'S AREN'T SUPPOSED TO HAVE A THROTTLE!!!!"
You: "I know. I have TWO throttles."
Put a 30 amp hour battery over the front wheel, that will definitely give you some more traction, even though it may be a lot harder to handle and steer
Good video! That thing is a Beast. When I had my Grizzly, I bit it bad once @ a light, starting out on full AWD because there was loose gravel in the road. After that I would always remember to turn the switch to RWD from a stop and then switch it to AWD after I got to about 8MPH (or lean waaay forward during an AWD start.) Eventually I just replaced those stock master/slave controllers, with two independent ones (using 2 throttles) and I would just leave the front motor on PAS 1 and use both throttles when I got up to speed. It gave me more control & limited me from being laughed at by bratty kids in their school buses.
I agree 100% independent throttles is the way to go.
I'm 73 and bought a cityscape, heybike about two and a half years ago.. it has 350 watt rear motor with a 10 amp hour battery under the seat.
It was never enough to climb the hills so I added a 1200 watt front motor and a 20 amp hour battery ,now it does everything I wanted and more, the 350 watt came with a right hand thumb throttle.and the front motor came with a right hand grip twist throttle, when I first take off I hit the thumb throttle with the PAS on number 1 and then use the twist throttle, ,,to climb real steep hills I put the PAS on number 7 and PRESS THE THUMB THROTTLE and twist the hand throttle, THE SMALL MOTOR PEAKS OUT AT 500 watts and the large motor peaks out at 1450 watts , giving me a total of 1950 watts to climb the hills,
Great name, Great Ebike. Your living your best life!
Been waiting for somebody to do a 3x . That being said would like to see somebody do a 3x stepthru
The first one I’ve seen with this rig very nice👍
I think imma going add a mid drive to my dual hub bike, looks like exactly what I am going for.
Damn!! Sick bike 😎 What a beast of a bike 👍👍👍
put one of your 40a controllers on that mid drive and get a custom rear cog set made with a 42 tooth as your largest cog and that thing will flip over ahha. im working on a 750 watt front and 2000 watt rear to control the shimmy and dirt sliding
Would seem like you really only need the rear wheel and the mid drive. How fast would that combination go?
Thank you for your over the top craziness. I don't understand why it seems so hard to prevent wheel spin by just limiting front RPM to match rear RPM. This should not be a difficult thing.
Absolute INSANE dude !! :-) Congrats !!
It looks like adding a mid drive is much better if one is NOT doing it for speed, but for added power for climing hills or riding the bike on dirt. What do you think?
Middrive motors are geared ones, so they have much more torque than hub direct-drive motors. Usually middrive motors have more torque than geared hub motors.
Bafang for example has a line if middrive motors powered between 250 and 1000 watt and the torque is 100 to 160 Nm
If the middrive is paired with the transmission you multiply the torque of it three times easily. So it can be 300 to 480 Nm of torque just with one middrive motor which is already enough and you can add up to aroun 100 Nm with some very strong geared hub motor (usually they are 35-65Nm)
What gear were you in for the mid-drive speed test? I would think if you added a gear set with a higher gear, you would get a good bit more speed
Huge respect for the bar mirror they make any cycle user sensible responsible respectable these are must on cycle e-bikes and motorcycles saves you looking over your shoulder when you can just check mirror and be done ☑️ with checking! Before blindspot check
I love riding my Scrambler similar to the Cocaine bike. 3000w+ BBSHD mid with asi controller and geared hub pulls the front wheel off the ground on a 140lb bike. I can make it 5Kw but pretty happy just the way it is. Funny thing is I putz around at 15mph most of the time.
That’s cool and all but my WALLKE H9 60aH AWD out of the box hits 33.4 mph flat and I hit 42.2 mph downhill ….. stock ! I’m 265 and it has a ton of power! You need to check out the H9 , it’s a good bike !
I have the Rad the same as yours and added a front motor just like you did. I actually considered for a long while about putting a mid drive motor on too and researched it for some time. I ultimately chose not to because the bike really does go fast enough and pulls me up any hill no problem. It simply wasn't worth the cost (around £1000) for something I'd get little to no use from. I still wonder though, what would the Rad be like with that mid drive!
Not only did that guy pass you, he did it in a no passing zone! Awesome climb... do you know how steep it is? They have phone apps that let you measure. Steepest one I go on is 40%.
Can you recommend double crown fork which will handle front motor?
Will there be a mid drive citizen wrap drive option coming for the 2024 wired freedom?
I am not sure how the mid drive works with the rear hub, would it harm the system if the mid drive was more powerful than the rear hub ? using a larger volt battery and controller ? I am interested in getting more top speed and hill climb dependable speeds from by 2000w dual motor Amazon bike (the Benxi seeker 24)
Yeah I’m wonder the same with my Amazon dual motor Amyet S8. Though I should probably get good suspension first
That is awesome and I love the name.What controller is running the mid drive?Or does it need one😂
This makes me re-think my decision to trade in my wired freedom for a dual motor furious... I've taken the freedom on some intense offroad hills just fine, and even did some towing, now I'm worried the furious won't be as capable...
Furious Reaper is a beast of a bike I love mine 😎👍
Wow. Is this the first time you ventured into the wonderful world of mid drive DIY motors? If so, you need to put a CYC Pro and 72V battery on a fixed tail MTB. I would be interested in your perspective of that bike considering you have so much experience with premade ebikes. Including powerful ones like the wired freedom and your frankenstien Rad Bike. Seems we are all on a mission to build the ultimate e bike for ourselves.
Awesome bike... power for days.
I have one of the philodo DUEL motor bukes, about to add a MID DRIVE. -- i have STEEP STEEP hills where i live, i DRAIN my battery in 3 to 4 miles if not carefull.
Like a pocket rocket. You know I think these ebikes might be my middrive crisis.
Funny this video showed up in my feed.
I was just talking about this with someone yesterday.
Ordered a bike this week. And it's not enough power for my needs, I was going to upgrade everything.
But he suggested putting a 1000watt mid motor.
After seeing your video. I think it's a done deal. I can pretty much leave the stock system. And add power through the mid drive.
I'm wondering about the peddle assist. Would I just leave it original. Or change it to the mid motor. ??
Are you able to change setting for just the front motor? Maybe if you reduce its power down to the equivalent of a 750W you may get less front wheel slip. Especially true if you can change the power curve to be more tame. Don't change the mid drive though as it can always be used for launch mode. 😎
Juiced is supposed to come out with their new Hyper Scorpion rendition this year. Said they were going to last year but no show. Gotta be something wicked good gotta be as the pressure is on them. I mean they changed game last time and for me think they’ll do it again. Hope so! That would be a F’n A Bad Ass bike😲.My thought is the got to better bikes like this and the others on the market. Man if they do that it’ll be a killer bike, hope they don’t stink it up🦨
Since I have a krusader dual hub 500 watt bafangs. So I could have better hill climbing ability couldn’t I just add a bbshd, separate throttle, battery etc ?
Lol! I love the bike's new name!
You have created another monster. I wonder what's next? I guess a trike wouldn't really be cool. Maybe a side car? Just thinking out loud.
You're insane dude😅 I love it 👍
I'd like to see an Ecells 5 star modded in this way.
You are a bona fide madman I love it
You blew me away with the name “cocaine bear“. There has to be more to the story. I did not see that coming.
Reference to the movie. 🙂
@@CitizenCycle925 you might want to reference the movie in your videos. I’ve never heard of it and thought the name might be a dark reveal of your private life. A lot of people will not immediately understand.
@@mrfin I guarantee you that won't be a problem.
Can the mid-drive be added to a new wired freedom?
My friend has a grizzly and says he cant take it off road because the suspension is so bad. Are there any suspension upgrade options?
If you put lower handle bars you can put weight down on the front tire no spinning just digging I did it to my Grizzly
Dual throttle, dual wristwatch, dual adderall. Hide yo mom
That's the one you've GOT TO TAKE with you to the beach 🏖️⛱️
Do you have a link for the rear rack battery please greetings from the Netherlands
Great work!
What size gage wire do I need for a 2000w controller for phase wire? Was also going to upgrade phase to the motor itself? Please and thanks
Let me borrow that out here in the Rockies..
Is it a geared hub?
I go 35mph with my mid drive Paratrooper in a 25mph, and people still try to pass me.
In the right gear, you can make that hill with a mid drive, I kill the hills with BBSHD!!!
Even does wheelies.
This might not be worth it but who knows, have you tried adding ankle weights on the front tire maybe on each side of the headlight? 2x5lbs or maybe a little more ... just wondering
Can I put a mid drive motor on my Aventon
Mr. Citizen,
Do You plan on attending The Electrify Expo in Long Beach on June 1 and 2??? E-Cells E-bikes and Owner David Cleveland will be at Booth 806. A chance to meet David, ask questions, and Test Ride E-Cells full line of E-bikes. Enjoy The Experience of riding a Great E-bike.
Have Fun at The Expo!!!
Unfortunately I won't be in attendance at the Expo.
You’re a great guy you sure know how to live life to the fullest enjoying life is all about I watch all of your video thumbs up click like you name it, great job I think now its time to step it up adding upgrade to hub drive 3000w 5000w 72v battery that’s my next step affordable price but the one I want is NBPOWER 72v 8000w QS 273 its way too expensive maybe you can do both more content more video you never know these kind of project bring more peoples into your channel the speed is the key 🔑
Does the mid drive trigger the rear hub's pedal assist mode so it's using both the bike's gearing and the hub motor, or is it all throttle controlled?
Or a mid drive on 20" wheel bikes!
That grizzly has 20 inch wheels.
@@JasonJenkins-fp2vx
Yes you are right. Now we need to know how to add that mid drive to our bikes. What components do we need besides the motor.
Do you have a store? I need a 48 V maybe 15 to 20 amp hour battery with a matching controller to run a 500 W rear wheel motor. Found a old junker and the motor is still good but they cannibalize the battery and controller. Do you have a recommendation if you don’t have a store Where I might be able to purchase that? Thank you for your video. Your videos are excellent really appreciate your input.
I am start up a store but i dont have controllers for sale yet, working on that, i see the need in the market. You'll probably need a wiring harness and display as well.
@@CitizenCycle925 Thank you for letting me know. Yes I will need that too. Do you have any resources possibly? Thanks for your videos. You have really educated us on the eBike community.
Add water to front wheel, ?
I have a grizzly v2. Will the factory front controler work with an add on mid drive, disconnecting the front hub, of course? Just looking for a mid drive/rear hub combo without two dispays.
I added a bafang BBS02 mid drive motor to this grizzly. The controller was internal with the motor. Not sure how you would bypass this using a different controller. Sounds like a wiring nightmare to me, I like having the extra screen to monitor the separate system.
Ok, i have another question
High end, high wattage, dual drive scooters like the Nambi have a function on their display/controler setup that allows the rider to send less power to the front motor to prevent wheel slippage. Since the controlers on the ariel grizzly are seriously under-rated and front wheel slippage on steep gravel hills is a serious problem on this bike, have you ever considered a controller swap?
Thanks for your informative videos.
Just mid and rear I like to climb hills
Come on Bryan let the cat out of the bag. What is your absolute quickest bike from .A to B?
Damn man. You hogging up all the motors just to pile them all on one bike 🚲😊
Haha yep
Do you have three Throttles?
@@thepubliceye just 2
I installed a 750w mid drive motor on my friends Super73, and he can keep up with my Duo motor Radrover pulling my dog in her trailer. When you get a fwd kit for 20in wheel, I'll build him a tri motor ebike like your cocaine 🐻
The mid drive alone would go up that hill
😳 Bryan, great video presentation and ebike innovations. But naming it "Cocaine"?? REALLY?? That seems to encourage a neighbor's kid to say "I'm riding on *COCAINE*."
With the awesome power and torque that you innovated with that ebike, add some blue with the yellow scheme and perhaps rename it "Fallout 1" with that theme's unique fonts.
After all, with three motors and that kind of torque, it should be able to get over and through all kinds of nuclear fallout debris that those devil's in the White House is trying to get us in.
Keep up the good work! 👍
Not many bikes are better up hills. You could play with tire pressure and get even more off road tread tires.
Love it
Your "4 low" is just essentially just more power to rear wheel.. Wouldn't it make more sense just to put a bigger, more powerful rear motor on there instead? That front motor seems kinda pointless, and then you have all the extra weight in batteries and the front and mid drive motor. Just get rid of all that, get a good battery and a more powerful rear hub motor, and you essentially have the same setup, but way less unnecessary weight and potential problems.. 4 low being just a more powerful rear motor, but using 2 motors and 2 batteries, makes no practical sense. I get that it's a hobby bike, but not something anyone else should be doing for sure.
I'm more madness then him..same bike but I have the 2000 watt bafang middrive 52v 160 Newton meter..and I shark 20ah 52v to go underneath the other shark battery..then I can destroy your citizenship bike beyond your 44 miles speed and I'm talking flat no hills..I'm from jersey
Terrible name!
That bike is illegal to drive on any public street in the US. You're setting a horrible example for kids and should be in jail.
oh fuck off with your gatekeeping of people who own bikes that are actually decent and not limited to 15 mph on pedal assist only
shut up