Why Did Roman Helmets Have Plumes?
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- A brief overview of why the Roman's had plumes on their helmets as seen in many Hollywood movies.
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Movies Featured:
Rome 2005
History of the World 1981
Life of Brian 1979
Rome: Total War (Video Game)
300 (2006)
The Eagle 2011
Simpsons S32E02
Gladiator 2000
Ryse: Son of Rome (Video Game)
Asterix the Gaul 1967
Band of Brothers 2001
#rome #history
Can We just appreciate that opening battle in "Rome?" I'm not a Roman military historian in any way but that first battle was one of the most realistic battles I've ever seen. The men fighting in formations, not running around or twirling around etc.
As much as I love the giant budget battle in Gladiator I still find this Rome scene tops it.
@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq Gladiator is fun in a romping adventure kind of way. Rome is great as a human drama and a semi-historical work. As I watched it, I was researching the various names, ranks, places and battles mentioned. I learned a huge amount of history just by being curious about that show.
Such as shame Rome was canceled after just 2 seasons.
@@axnyslie Been watching that "Historia Civilis" channel and my god, the potential for a s3 was immense. I guess the budget just wasn't justified by the low viewership. Then GoT (which was extremely influenced by Rome) came along just a few years later and got massive budgets and viewers .
The ones from the Monty Python movie were way more realistic! 🤣
Roman plumes "hey im in charge and special" also "I am big target kill me first".
A reason why many Officers were favorite buckshot for snipers during the American civil war. Coz they were riding on a horse .
I have a friend into medieval fighting who ran a whole team that'd go to events. One of the members had a nice decorative helmet and everyone assumed he was the group's leader because he stood out so well. To the point my friend had to buy the helmet for himself to stop the confusion.
That's hilarious and shows just how important something like a fancy hat could be on the battlefield back in the day🤣
@@peterglade1803 That's why I never go anywhere without my ostrich plumed African hat.
If memory serves, Walter Cronkite had a rough landing in a glider during Operation: Market‐Garden. Everyone got bounced around, so he grabbed the first helmet he could, and un-assed the aircraft. Then he wondered why everybody was following him, until he realized he was wearing an officer's helmet. Oops!
Saving Private Ryan also mentions protecting officers' identity from the enemy when Caparzo says to Upham "And another thing, every time you salute the captain, you make him a target for the Germans. So do us a favour, don't do it. Especially when l'm standing next to him, capisci?"
And then the same movie also botch this by using helmets with the officer rank insignia on the front.
In theory in the finnish army we weren't supposed to greet top brass during major exercises because of that fact, but I think they loved their ego being stroked so we had to do it anyway most of the time lol.
That didnt become a massive issue until the advance of firearm technology
in Antiquity is was much more valuable for your own men to be able to spot you and recevies order from across a battlefiend than the downside of being spotted by the enemy sicne they could do jack shit about it
furthermore Roman centuries fought in fixed formation with the centurion always in the same spot at the front right, so any enemy with the slightest knowlegde of the roman army would already know who the centurions
I remember Lt Dan telling Forest and Bubba something very similar
Theerreee's Johnny. With more great content...
"Alright, I'm Johnny..."
I think you should produce a video in what some modern armies view as an obsolete weapon. The bayonet. I know the USMC and BA have not given it up. It is still in their combat doctrine. I remember doing bayonet drills when I was serving. The bayonet drill instructors really make you go through all sorts of physical activity in combat gear until you are near or totally exhausted to simulated the conditions bayonets will be used.
A moment that I remember form a documentary about the British officer training school Sandhurst:
Sergeant: What is the purpose of the bayonet?
Cadets: To kill kill kill.
Sergeant: I didn't know I had the girls' platoon today. What is the purpose of the bayonet?
Cadets: To Kill! Kill! Kill!
The British did a bayonet charge in, I want to say '03 or '04 in Basra, Iraq. Scared the crap out of the Iraqis when they got bum-rushed by a company of irate Englishmen, with pokey things on the end of their bangy things.
@@jackstecker5796 check out Danny boy....
People say no to bring a knife to a gunfight, but then what is the point of a bayonet?
Simple: To allow your gun to double as a spear, historically the most useful melee weapon for use on the battlefield.
@@42meep13 the bayonet came about because you get musket armed men doubling as pikemen.
Fun fact: the plume worn by Centurions were used to.... sweep the enemies of Rome away.
I'll take the flogging with a smile, Centurion.
As soon as I saw the thumbnail, I went to my display case, pulled out my modern reproduction Roman Helmet, and wore it while I watched the video.
It's 6am here and I also have on my dress shirt and slacks getting ready for work. 🤪
You sir, are exactly who I make videos for lol
@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq makes the world a better place...
Actually always wondered what the purpose of those were glad you posted this video!
Ok .... without being there... to me it is obvious (based my experience/long story) the centurian helmet was designed to help the centurian form a correct facing formation line of soldiers. In the din/confusion of battle the soldier would look at the centurian helmet (above the fray) to get a sense of which direction the centurian would like the formation/ to face after say an engagement.
The plume being used to make the soldier look larger is also something the hats of the Napoleonic(and earlier) era were so big for.
Love to see the ancient history stuff Johnny. I don't think it's outside the scope of your channel, most people that are interested in WW2 era weaponry aren't going to limit themselves to just that era of history, It's a general interest in things that came before our time. Though I may be speaking just for myself. Just wanted to encourage you to do videos that interest you. I think any sort of equipment depicted in hollywood movies from any era is within the scope of your channel.
I really appreciate the kind words! This is good encouragement - thank you.
There's a lot of crossover between those who appreciate modern war history and ancient war history. We'll be here Johnny!
Great video. I'd also like to thank the Column of Trajan for showing us so much of what Roman soldiers looked like.
Centurians only lead 80 men. The idea that they led 100 men is a misunderstanding.
One problem with understanding the Roman legion is that they were not all alike. The fort for one legion had all the senior legionaries, those who had served at least 20 years, housed together. For some time it was thought that this was possibly what every legion did but it is now thought that this was not the case. Senior legionaries were excused many duties such as guarding the camp or fort, so having them separated from the other legionaries may have been done in recognition of their seniority.
Yeah, not too dissimilar from an NCO club in the modern military.
Same with the greek...its a badge of rank...fun fact..in 300 gerad butlers plume was the wrong way around,in the movie it went front to back...in real life his rank would mean the plume would actually go from left to right across the head.....but when the comic books were written the plume in the correct position wasn't thought to be photogenic enough,so it was changed for illustrative purposes and carried into the film.
Despite everything _300_ gets wrong, which is technically almost everything because it's a stylistic film rather than an historical one, the direction of Gerard Butler's plume may have been historically accurate. Hoplite Spartan officers had the horizontal plumes, but it's not known for certain what the king's would have been.
All the modern statues in Greece of Leonidas depict him helmeted with the plume going from front to back. However, the oldest depiction believed to be of King Leonidas is a marble bust found on the Spartan Acropolis in 1926 dating to the 5th Century B.C. It is in the Archaeological Museum of Sparta and shows the plume going front to back.
ruclips.net/video/SZTgaCRKKxU/видео.html
Great research. Too bad movie footage from “Centurion” wasn’t used. Tight formations and movements are still implemented during Tactical Employment of Nonlethal Weapons (aka, riot control). That was some intimidating but cool training when done correctly.
I visited the British museum years ago and they have an impressive collection of Greek and Roman helmets. My oldest owned helmet is a 1570s morion and 1640 lobster still shiny! Wish I could own a real roman one.
"You care if it falls?"
"What?"
"The Roman Empire?"
"$&#* IIIIT!!"
my guy, they had plumes because plumes are cool as fuck.
Another good one my man, much enjoyed
Hello Johny .How could you miss the GATE Anime ? Roman style Mediaeval army vs A modern JSDF Army would have been more suitable and funny addition.
I agree lol
thank you for showing asterix the gaul clips i grew up with the comics
3rd Reich Police Parade schackos there are also feathers on it. Possibly derived from the Roman Empire.
Greek versions are nicely depicted in Alexander the Great movie. Lots of hoplites were wearing those.
Also huge thumb up for Rome series. One of the best historical depictions
Well , In Medieval Armor , the Indo Persian style Armor and a similar type of Armor pattern used by Novgorod Rus and Lithuanian catholic kingdom are my favorite.
Anybody knows if one can stream Rome someplace? It seems cool, at least from these clips
you really like band of brothers don't you :)
Even I had to laugh at myself that I worked it into a Roman history video lol
At least the Roman history buffs are chill.
1:26 "... more or less correctly shown in The Simpsons..." LOL LOLOL Johnny, only you have such a Cool Page as this. One of the Very Best Pages on RUclips. Wishing you much success - John 14:6
Lol thanks man. I try to make it fun 😁
Pretty sure a Roman soldier was a legionary rather than legionnaire?
Thank you for using the proper time stamps of AD and BC.
Too many groups and museums are using the illogical BC and BCE which makes zero sense.
I grew up with AD. No need to change it really.
If dates CE and BCE annoy you, try pretending that they stand for "Christian Era" and "Before Christian Era."
@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq hear,hear...
It’s a drip or drown works out there, folks
Why did Roman soldiers wore colourful plumes on top of their helmets? Why did the Landsknecht wore colorful clothing? Why did soldiers wore bright jackets in the XVIII century?
It's all about looking amazing in the battlefield, to intimidate by means of just being stylish, and to be perceived as an absolute unit. Just look at the SS uniforms.
SS dress uniforms or plain field uniforms?
Swag
Hi good video,just a quick note ,I thought that the ordinary roman soldier wore a horse hair long crest(or plume) for special occasions
Point of order: Rome did not end in 476 AD and it certainly continued on the tradition of having decorative plumes for some time after that.
The last Rome emperor was deposed in 476 AD, while the eastern Roman Empire soldiered on until the Ottomans conquered it 500(±) years later. How's that?
In point of fact, Rome the city still exists. Or to be pedantly different, the Rome Empire collapsed in 476 AD, but the Roman Empire continued on.
the simpsons haha
Because it looks rad as fuck
Because you could flip the whole guy upside down and use him like a dust broom ?
An excellent comment in my books
Roman centurions were definitely known to wear a RED HOT burning coal fitted to the front of their helmets in combat. With the sun burst style plume, it made quite an impact. It's mentioned in contemporary written sources. Against enemies it resonated with the centurion coming from the Gods to deliver divine punishment This is from "Imperial Rome at War" (Concord Fighting Men 6000): No. 6002 Well worth it for all sorts of esoteric info. Long out of print however.
PS: Farnham Wood, West Sussex, England, is the location of the opening battle in "Gladiator". Many of the stuntmen went to the local swimming pool to let off steam - and the shower facilities in situ weren't quite the ticket. They were still dirty. Result = the pool staff were most upset to see hay, grass and a film of muddy scum emerge in the pool.
PPS: A huge number of painstakingly made arrows were piled together for that battle, but a fire arrow randomly landed there and the lot went up like a Roman candle. That's why digital arrows were resorted to.
Source?
@@muddashucka9743 I gave the source - Concord Fighting Men 6000): No. 6002. The title is Imperial Rome At War. No, I don't have the original source.
@@martinidry6300 if you don't have the original source then... you don't have a primary source, you have a secondhand account
@@AdamOwenBrowning And? How many primary sources are quoted, with title, date, page numbers, publisher, etc? I've never seen one. It's a secondary source. If you buy the quoted book you'll find that quote, then you can refer to the original book(s). When you do, get back to me and convey your thanks.
Your given surname of Meme is most indicative.
@Chrome Book Go & buy the book I quoted, as I've already stated you lazy git. If not, remain as you are.
Rome was a great series on HBO.
Long story short..... *They look fucking cool*
Long story short. You lost an argument due to stupidity.
🇮🇹👍😱🇩🇪
The Roman empire did NOT stretch from Scotland - they built a wall in England to keep them out.
Asking why a Centurions helmet has a plume is like asking “why are bullets pointy”
They had plumes because in the roman culture the rooster represented bravery, and gameness, romans used to watch cockfighting before their battles, to get motivated to fight. There the idea for them to resemblance the bravery and toughness of the fighting rooster. FACTS....
I had the thought that the plumes had some practical advantage during battle in addition to identifying leaders and officers. A sturdy blume could blunt the downward stroke of a sword and possibly stop or redirect deflection of the sword that could hit a shoulder or arm.
Huh, never thought about how the helmet shape from housing a plume could redirect a blow. Like how samurai helmets had fancy bits (i think they are called fukigaeshi) to the sides of the helmet brim to hopefully redirect blows coming straight down into the skull to one side.
It’s to confuse the enemy, from a distance it looks like a pack of wild turkeys, and lulls the enemy into complacency.
"Crista" is the Latin name of the crest in roosters, the red protuberance in top their head´s. The symbology seems evident on face of this fact.
My friend triggered the entire Roman army and it’s followers by saying the plumes looks like brooms.
I prefer the sideway plume of the Centurion aka NCO
Also prefer the legionaries in HBO Rome with their chain mail design
Much respect as many who regard plume associated with Romans, never mention Greece who I believe are the soul founders of the idea that I helmet can be decorated with a plume .
I'm surprised there wasn't a single Spartacus clip.
That centurions broom hat looks quite silly, not impressive at all.
It's common to portray helmet plumes as red. Is that accurate? Do we have any evidence for that?
In most movies the two sides just charge into each other, merging into one large mass of men flailing about them. I just hate that.
So - any time I see them at least try to start off with a formation I'm relatively pleased.
.
JOhnny...I just checked on something I've "known" for 60+ years, and now I stand Corrected: Yes..all Officers wore a white vertical stripe on their helmet on D-Day, as you state ... and Sergeants wore a white Horizontal stripe on theirs.
I learn the darndest things, thanks to you. Stay with the Good Work, eh?
I appreciate it! Never hurts to double check info. Lots of misinformation out there and I fall victim to it as well! Thanks for doubling checking for me.
The US army issue ALICE pack.
Real question is
Horse hair plumage or feathers?
I loved Asterix the Gaul when I was a kid.
3:26 Helmets don't block or stop bullets. Military wears helmets for the debris that fall when a grenade explodes which that debris by itself can be quite dangerous and even kill them.
@Chrome Book Most often it can't unless you're wearing special helmets, soldiers wear the normal helmets that don't stop jack shit.
0:48 to be fair that movie's budget went all to abs lol
3:30 it's not that I'm a coward, it's that I just don't care.
Fire Arrows needs to be an episode at some point
You just keep pumping out videos and I love ever one of them they are so good
I remember the centurion Abenader in The Passion of the Christ didn't have a plume for his helmet, just a metallic crest.
Yeah, that's incorrect. Great movie, otherwise.
One Question I have :- why many Eastern European militaries have Armor style similar to the Persian Turkic sets rather than being similar to those wore by Western European militaries?
In simple words :- why a Rus Novgorod or Polish/Lithuanian Solider preferred Mongolian style Lamellar + Chainmail Armor combination over a Fully Armored Knight like those of late Medieval Germanic principalities , England and France?
i'm not a historian or anything, but i'm pretty sure the real reason why is that it looks cool
I think Centurions literally wanted to be identified as the officer to make him the big target when they are engaged, which puts him in more danger than anybody else. It gives him more command and respect towards his men as the one calling the shots and as the meanest and baddest of them all.
A comparison between 19th century european and american mitrailleuse type guns could be interessting i think.
Fun fact: Walter Cronkite was a war correspondent who went to Operation Market Garden in a glider which crashed, while jumbled together he grabbed a helmet and put it on then crawled out, soon he realized he was being followed by all these soldiers he asked them why and it was then pointed out that the helmet he had taken was an officer's helmet with the stripe on the back. They were just following the leader!😅
Love the use of the great historic source of Astérix in the video.
With recent discoveries of how much colorful roman culture is, those things probably were colored like a full rainbow
Looking like a peacock
Doubt it. Probably plumes of red and black depending on rank and other factors. Roman military color was different from other aspects of their culture.
Second
Some Persian and Turkic Armor sets like Chainmail , Khula Khud ( helmet) , Char Aina (four plate Cuirass) and the famous Talwar become an integral part of the Indian subcontinent war culture .
Great as always 😊 could you cover reconnaissance units ?
SAS !!!
Great effort in this video, sorry to be a bit off topic, I just hope that video of Otoko Tachi No Yamato's production of their replica 12.7 cm twin mount will be useful, there are a few other short videos in that same channel that show them testing it, as well.
Again, great video, take care, and all the best.
I checked it out! It's good stuff. Give me some time on more naval productions :)
Don't worry, whatever you do is great, and I will wait.
This is your channel, not mine, do what you feel right!
Take care, and all the best.
Fourth 😩
third 😁
It was a sex thing. They all wanted to look fabulous for each other.
First