@@Design.Theory Well that and if you look at the past 50 years of guitar/bass design, it's easy to see that musicians tend to be hardcore traditionalists and will often turn down a superior product because it isn't the one their idol played. Thus, companies are disincentivized from innovating, choosing instead to just reissue the same models they made in the late 50's. I think this has to do with the steep learning curve of playing music at a high level. If you look at any activity with such a steep learning curve, users are often very stubborn about change. They prefer to use their tried and true methods/tools because they perceive (rightly or wrongly) that the loss in efficiency that comes with having to adapt to any new tool is not worth the possible gains. Just look at a software like Alias whose UI is all but unintelligible unless you have been professionally trained in it. An interesting brand to check out would be abasi guitars which are designed for/by progressive metal guitarist Tosin Abasi. Due to the nature of the genre, players tend to be more accepting of new ideas which has allowed them to find some success.
@@iamsuperflush pretty much this. There is no market for innovative designs in the guitar/bass industry. At least not a big one. I'm familiar with Abasi guitars. Very cool stuff.
@@Design.Theory Regardless, great video explaining the basic concepts of ergonomics. I especially loved seeing your foam sketch models. I'm curious about your take on two things: if/how design considerations change in scenarios involving a lot of movement (sportswear etc) and how to test weight balance when making a model out of real materials is cost prohibitive. I've found myself stuck on the weight balance thing in previous projects.
@@iamsuperflush I use fishing weights that are roughly distributed in the right areas in terms of weight distribution. Batteries are also good if it's a smaller project....more readily accessible than fishing weights, too. Each AA battery weighs about 24 grams I think?
Hey all, don't forget to check out my other channel, Honest Unboxing. Instagram: instagram.com/honest_unboxing/ RUclips: ruclips.net/channel/UCgMxyjFpxydDsFi_IyKzD1A Enroll in my online industrial design course, Form Fundamentals: bit.ly/335vsqO Learn visual storytelling, design language, and form. Make a killer portfolio and land your dream job: bit.ly/335vsqO
loved this video. I always like seeing what kind of models and prototypes people do to study ergonomics, as i often get stuck there not knowing how to test things. This was very insightful! Thanks a lot Also loved the shark haha
I'm designing my own guitar atm but with paper and pencils because I'm a luddite. The foam bodies are a great idea as I was intending to use ply to make mock ups, I'll definitely give this way a try. Thanks.
The requirements and positioning on the body are the same. Your bass should be in the same position on your body when you're sitting down and when you're standing up.
@@iamsuperflush Yeah for sure. They're not really a customer that is concerned with ergonomics, though. I know that many customers are not concerned with ergonomics, but as you mentioned in another comment, certain prog rock/technical players might be, because it would allow them to play better.
You probably know this, but the reason why some ergonomic guitars are headless is to help the weigh and balance issue. If you build your instrument to have a very light body, the headstock will cause a neck dive and that forces you to add weigh to the body. But if you completely remove the headstock, not only that's less wood right there which makes the instrument surprisingly lighter but it also allows you to make the body itself lighter without causing a balance problem. I think in terms of ergonomics the Strandbergs may be close to the ultimate guitar design even tho in terms of aesthetics and functionality I'd still change a few things. Maybe the holes you added can also remove just a bit more weigh. I'd even go with those minimalistic Steinbergers if it wasn't for the neck dive! Here I am talking as if I had thousands of euros to waste on more guitars!
Hey! John first of all Regards of the day and thanks for making such comprehensive videos on different topic of design theory because they are really very helpfull and informative.I have one request that can you please make a video on Form Exploration,Form Study or Elements of Forms like how can we derive organic forms out of nature or animals or from our surroundings in general.It would be a great help. Thanks.
@@Design.Theory Sir can you please suggest me name of some books related to topic Form Study/Form Exploration that i can read to learn more about Form Exploration and geometry of forms.
@@rishabhsharma8568 hmmmm there isn't really anything like that as far as I know. That's why I'm working on something related to that. I'll let you know when it's ready.
Torzal guitar’s twisted neck profile is one of the most daring ergonomic engineering I’ve seen for stringed instruments. On par would be Rick Toone’s “Orchid” bass body shape and numerous other inventions!
How much do you think you would have to change if you were making this for a specific more general user group? Or said differently- How many of your design decisions were made specifically for yourself? Did you make this with others in mind or did you specifically form it to yourself, knowing well that if it were to be mass produced, it would need to change?
I tested with about a dozen other people. I would say the biggest thing that was designed specifically for me was the scale length (the overall length of the neck+strings). I have freakishly long arms and have no problem reaching the end of the neck, even when in the classical position. For many people, that neck would be too long. The next iteration of this design that I'm currently working on has a shorter scale length and it also is positioned in a way where the lower frets are easier to reach.
what happened to this build idea. are there any other videos adn how did the third design happen. where there others, did you make a final production product, can you share any sound samples.
ho, just a question. Do you think that nature is perfect designed and build? I mean, the trees; flowers; birds; rivers; sky...etc is perfectly deigned? I would love to hear your comments!
Well, nature certainly optimizes. So in that way, you could argue that nature is the best designer. But it also mindlessly and wastefully goes through lots of long, inefficient, drawn-out processes to arrive at a sensible solution (just look up natural selection). The evolutionary process is pretty brutal, wasteful, and unforgiving. To be fair, nature has an effectively infinite amount of resources. With unlimited resources, there's really no need to be efficient, I guess?
I never realized how un-ergonomic the guitars and bases are until now, it makes a lot of sense!
Thanks for checking it out, Orion :) Yeah, it's pretty crazy how much we just accept bad products because they're the status quo.
@@Design.Theory Well that and if you look at the past 50 years of guitar/bass design, it's easy to see that musicians tend to be hardcore traditionalists and will often turn down a superior product because it isn't the one their idol played. Thus, companies are disincentivized from innovating, choosing instead to just reissue the same models they made in the late 50's. I think this has to do with the steep learning curve of playing music at a high level. If you look at any activity with such a steep learning curve, users are often very stubborn about change. They prefer to use their tried and true methods/tools because they perceive (rightly or wrongly) that the loss in efficiency that comes with having to adapt to any new tool is not worth the possible gains. Just look at a software like Alias whose UI is all but unintelligible unless you have been professionally trained in it.
An interesting brand to check out would be abasi guitars which are designed for/by progressive metal guitarist Tosin Abasi. Due to the nature of the genre, players tend to be more accepting of new ideas which has allowed them to find some success.
@@iamsuperflush pretty much this. There is no market for innovative designs in the guitar/bass industry. At least not a big one. I'm familiar with Abasi guitars. Very cool stuff.
@@Design.Theory Regardless, great video explaining the basic concepts of ergonomics. I especially loved seeing your foam sketch models. I'm curious about your take on two things: if/how design considerations change in scenarios involving a lot of movement (sportswear etc) and how to test weight balance when making a model out of real materials is cost prohibitive. I've found myself stuck on the weight balance thing in previous projects.
@@iamsuperflush I use fishing weights that are roughly distributed in the right areas in terms of weight distribution. Batteries are also good if it's a smaller project....more readily accessible than fishing weights, too. Each AA battery weighs about 24 grams I think?
I'm currently taking class on ergonomics, so this video couldn't have come at better time, thank you :).
Cheers!
Thank you for checking it out :)
I really like that you had a few products showing how ergonomics work! Much better for understanding
Thanks :)
Hey all, don't forget to check out my other channel, Honest Unboxing. Instagram: instagram.com/honest_unboxing/ RUclips: ruclips.net/channel/UCgMxyjFpxydDsFi_IyKzD1A Enroll in my online industrial design course, Form Fundamentals: bit.ly/335vsqO Learn visual storytelling, design language, and form. Make a killer portfolio and land your dream job: bit.ly/335vsqO
loved this video. I always like seeing what kind of models and prototypes people do to study ergonomics, as i often get stuck there not knowing how to test things. This was very insightful! Thanks a lot
Also loved the shark haha
Thanks for checking it out :)
Really like the insights! Love the form exploration and the analysis. 👌
Thank you for checking it out, Sangam :)
Love the little shark face! Another great video - cool to see the different stages you went through to reach the desired design.
Absolutely love this design! I could definitely see myself buying it whenever I eventually get a new bass
Dude! Your other channel, Honest Unboxing, is hilarious! What a hoot! You probably shouldn't give a robot a knife again though.
woo!
I'm designing my own guitar atm but with paper and pencils because I'm a luddite. The foam bodies are a great idea as I was intending to use ply to make mock ups, I'll definitely give this way a try. Thanks.
How do you think about the competing requirements of designing a guitar/bass for playing while standing vs playing while sitting?
The requirements and positioning on the body are the same. Your bass should be in the same position on your body when you're sitting down and when you're standing up.
@@Design.Theory Flea and Duff Mckagan would beg to differ haha
@@iamsuperflush Yeah for sure. They're not really a customer that is concerned with ergonomics, though. I know that many customers are not concerned with ergonomics, but as you mentioned in another comment, certain prog rock/technical players might be, because it would allow them to play better.
Ready to see how this comes out
Thank you!
You probably know this, but the reason why some ergonomic guitars are headless is to help the weigh and balance issue. If you build your instrument to have a very light body, the headstock will cause a neck dive and that forces you to add weigh to the body. But if you completely remove the headstock, not only that's less wood right there which makes the instrument surprisingly lighter but it also allows you to make the body itself lighter without causing a balance problem. I think in terms of ergonomics the Strandbergs may be close to the ultimate guitar design even tho in terms of aesthetics and functionality I'd still change a few things. Maybe the holes you added can also remove just a bit more weigh. I'd even go with those minimalistic Steinbergers if it wasn't for the neck dive! Here I am talking as if I had thousands of euros to waste on more guitars!
Yes, thank you for your thoughtful response!
Hey! John first of all Regards of the day and thanks for making such comprehensive videos on different topic of design theory because they are really very helpfull and informative.I have one request that can you please make a video on Form Exploration,Form Study or Elements of Forms like how can we derive organic forms out of nature or animals or from our surroundings in general.It would be a great help.
Thanks.
Hi Rishabh, thank you for the feedback. Yes, I'm working on that very diligently as we speak! Big things coming soon.
@@Design.Theory Sir can you please suggest me name of some books related to topic Form Study/Form Exploration that i can read to learn more about Form Exploration and geometry of forms.
@@rishabhsharma8568 hmmmm there isn't really anything like that as far as I know. That's why I'm working on something related to that. I'll let you know when it's ready.
Torzal guitar’s twisted neck profile is one of the most daring ergonomic engineering I’ve seen for stringed instruments. On par would be Rick Toone’s “Orchid” bass body shape and numerous other inventions!
Yup. Love Rick Toone. Such a great luthier. The Torzal Twists are insane, too. I still don't fully understand how he does it.
So gorgeous! The bass isn't bad either. 😏
Very educational , thanks man👌
Thanks for checking it out :)
Great lesson!. Love the axe too 🎸
Thank you!!!
yey for shark face!
I see a very
ferocious dog 6:13
I wish I had a discord emoji
How much do you think you would have to change if you were making this for a specific more general user group? Or said differently- How many of your design decisions were made specifically for yourself? Did you make this with others in mind or did you specifically form it to yourself, knowing well that if it were to be mass produced, it would need to change?
I tested with about a dozen other people. I would say the biggest thing that was designed specifically for me was the scale length (the overall length of the neck+strings). I have freakishly long arms and have no problem reaching the end of the neck, even when in the classical position. For many people, that neck would be too long. The next iteration of this design that I'm currently working on has a shorter scale length and it also is positioned in a way where the lower frets are easier to reach.
How can you even show it without a sound test outro? :b
Gorgeous bass, professor 🔥
Now that you mention it that was kind of a massive misstep on my part. Maybe when the next one is done?
This is very interesting, do you feel like this is very specifically tailored to your body shape or that it would fit most people?
Yeah I've tested it with several people. It works well, but it's not perfect. I made a better version more recently
Would you mind sharing what that foam is called (other than "foam")? I mean, is it a particular type, and where can I buy some?
just regular pink foam. I bought it at Home Depot
what happened to this build idea. are there any other videos adn how did the third design happen. where there others, did you make a final production product, can you share any sound samples.
awsm video
Thank you!!!
Can I order a bass from you?:D btw you should also check what Strandberg is doing with guitar ergonomics!
Big fan of Strandberg. In order for it to be worth it to me to sell a bass, I'd have to charge way more than them. It's simply an economy of scale.
ho, just a question. Do you think that nature is perfect designed and build? I mean, the trees; flowers; birds; rivers; sky...etc is perfectly deigned? I would love to hear your comments!
Well, nature certainly optimizes. So in that way, you could argue that nature is the best designer. But it also mindlessly and wastefully goes through lots of long, inefficient, drawn-out processes to arrive at a sensible solution (just look up natural selection). The evolutionary process is pretty brutal, wasteful, and unforgiving. To be fair, nature has an effectively infinite amount of resources. With unlimited resources, there's really no need to be efficient, I guess?
🦈
i got the 420th like 🤙
They look like the United States of America
So what became of this?
watch my latest video to find out (the one about the bass guitar) :)