I never saw Basil's death as his downfall. He died trying to save his friend and with dignity. I just though Oscar was avoiding clichés by showing that sometimes the good guy looses. I say this because if I remember right, Basil still had it pretty good before his death. I think he was supposed to go to Paris to show off more of his artwork right before he died. And if we are to use the standard of death as downfall then almost every character we spend any significant time with dies besides Lord Henry. And Lord Henry is just left as an old man wishing so bad to be like Dorian (while not knowing how bad Dorian has it). I think that would be worse for Henry's personality than mere death. I think Oscar was just showing the inherent flaws of hedonism, while also displaying the truth that morality doesn't equal gain. AKA reality. I don't really get the balance idea since in the end, no matter where the character is on the spectrum of morality vs decadence they more or less still suffer the same fate. The only thing you have to say morality is bad is that Basil died, but that could still be seen as the negatives of decadence rather than morality. That decadence destroys everyone around you, even the most loyal and helpful. Since the suffering that's really focused on is Dorian's guilt/regret and his anxiety about being caught. In fact the book gives Dorian a way out, a chance for a happy ending (or the closest one realistically available) to confess to the murder of Basil. Even if there is no evidence and if no one believes his confession, the fact that he would suffer humiliation was his best bet at reversing the damage to his soul and save him. Instead he grabs a knife with the intention of destroying the last of his conscience and evidence of his sins, thus killing himself completely. If anything I do view this story as a moral one, just without any romanticism.
[Spoiler] It's all about image, masks, facade, reputation or to put in one word: suggestions. And this all takes place in words. Wilde was master of dialogue, conversation and suggestions. Key scene is the conversation at the end: dialogue between Lord Henry and Dorian Gray. Henry doesn't believe that Dorian could murder someone. At that moment it's the first time Dorian sees the real Henry: an empty cynical poseur with no idea of who Dorian was. Henry's image of Dorian was only a mask. And vice versa: Dorian's image of Lord Henry was a mask. For Dorian this emptiness was too much... The story goes beyond morals: it shows the mechanism of expectations and deceiving appearances of images and thoughts... all driven by words. Dorian Gray is a genius masterpiece.
Thanks for adding this point. I can see how it may have been a core motivation for Wilde in writing this novel. The emptiness that accompanies hedonism is truly bleak, and worth shouting from rooftops in hopes that it may save some souls. Next stop: Notes From the Underground
I have always looked at the story as pleasure does not mean happiness as the story halfway through shows Dorian being bored of it and wanting something new but cant with his past catching up so he kills himself by stabbing the painting
There’s a lot in Wilde’s novel that is hidden. You can feel it as you read it. And let’s face it, stabbing a painting only leads to a ruined piece of art. Dorian commits suicide, and that’s the end of his story.
In a sense only Dorian can redeem himself but only through killing himself so his body ends up recognising the sins he has committed and the picture ends up being the pure work of art with no blemishes. The art (picture) can be perfect and but real life cannot be.
in the traditional tale of morality, we would have some struggles and then there would be some redemption at the end and it would have a big grand payoff. But The Picture of Dorian Gray does not have a grand path. There is no redemption. There is no triumph at the end of the book. All that happens is Dorian dies. So although there is themes of Christian morality throughout the book, this isn't attrition, a traditional Christian tale. There is complexities to this. After setting off Dorians initial downfall by introducing him to Lord Henry and painting the homoerotic picture. Basil Hallward takes on the role of a moral character a positive influence and Dorians life trying to influence him to do the right and good thing. However, this is interesting because basil Hallward dies partway through the book.
All I know about this movie is that’s it’s sexist and women’s are used as trash in it, the wrong things happening with women are never depicted but the problem of men which even isn’t half as saddening as women’s
TL;DR Wilde writing about how women were nothing is insightful to our understanding of the societal values at the time. It also shows the characterisation of hedonistic qualities of characters like Lord Henry and Dorian. Firstly, the movie is a very inaccurate representation of the book itself (highly recommend you read the novel instead, def won't be disappointed). Also the whole point of disregarding women is meant to showcase Lord Henry's hedonistic beliefs (he legit openly states how he cheats on his wife and she cheats on him- again, his sinful beliefs) while it also implies the beliefs of society in general in the Victorian Era in England. You gotta realise that if men being homosexual was heavily discriminated against in those times, women were not even considered to have value enough to be homosexual...
I never saw Basil's death as his downfall. He died trying to save his friend and with dignity. I just though Oscar was avoiding clichés by showing that sometimes the good guy looses. I say this because if I remember right, Basil still had it pretty good before his death. I think he was supposed to go to Paris to show off more of his artwork right before he died. And if we are to use the standard of death as downfall then almost every character we spend any significant time with dies besides Lord Henry. And Lord Henry is just left as an old man wishing so bad to be like Dorian (while not knowing how bad Dorian has it). I think that would be worse for Henry's personality than mere death.
I think Oscar was just showing the inherent flaws of hedonism, while also displaying the truth that morality doesn't equal gain. AKA reality.
I don't really get the balance idea since in the end, no matter where the character is on the spectrum of morality vs decadence they more or less still suffer the same fate. The only thing you have to say morality is bad is that Basil died, but that could still be seen as the negatives of decadence rather than morality. That decadence destroys everyone around you, even the most loyal and helpful. Since the suffering that's really focused on is Dorian's guilt/regret and his anxiety about being caught. In fact the book gives Dorian a way out, a chance for a happy ending (or the closest one realistically available) to confess to the murder of Basil. Even if there is no evidence and if no one believes his confession, the fact that he would suffer humiliation was his best bet at reversing the damage to his soul and save him. Instead he grabs a knife with the intention of destroying the last of his conscience and evidence of his sins, thus killing himself completely.
If anything I do view this story as a moral one, just without any romanticism.
Death is immortal.
[Spoiler] It's all about image, masks, facade, reputation or to put in one word: suggestions. And this all takes place in words. Wilde was master of dialogue, conversation and suggestions.
Key scene is the conversation at the end: dialogue between Lord Henry and Dorian Gray. Henry doesn't believe that Dorian could murder someone. At that moment it's the first time Dorian sees the real Henry: an empty cynical poseur with no idea of who Dorian was. Henry's image of Dorian was only a mask. And vice versa: Dorian's image of Lord Henry was a mask. For Dorian this emptiness was too much... The story goes beyond morals: it shows the mechanism of expectations and deceiving appearances of images and thoughts... all driven by words.
Dorian Gray is a genius masterpiece.
I love this, never saw it like that before thank you
Thanks for adding this point. I can see how it may have been a core motivation for Wilde in writing this novel. The emptiness that accompanies hedonism is truly bleak, and worth shouting from rooftops in hopes that it may save some souls.
Next stop: Notes From the Underground
Your content is truly top knotch my fellow, keep it up
Fantastic analysis, thank you so much 💎💞
Really enjoyed this analysis.
I feel so much smarter now
Beautiful!!
Very nice video
nice, very good video
I have always looked at the story as pleasure does not mean happiness as the story halfway through shows Dorian being bored of it and wanting something new but cant with his past catching up so he kills himself by stabbing the painting
Whatching from Brazil 🇧🇷😀
has anyone ever told you that you look exactly like ben platt
Why does no one see the art criticism in this novel, the matters of decadence and depravity are accoutrement to this criticism!
Dorian Gray is a novel of manners, morals, aesthetics, art, society, inter alia.
Are you still active on this channel?
There’s a lot in Wilde’s novel that is hidden. You can feel it as you read it. And let’s face it, stabbing a painting only leads to a ruined piece of art. Dorian commits suicide, and that’s the end of his story.
In a sense only Dorian can redeem himself but only through killing himself so his body ends up recognising the sins he has committed and the picture ends up being the pure work of art with no blemishes. The art (picture) can be perfect and but real life cannot be.
I am not quite sure Wilde himself would agree with your labeling the novel as a “morality book”.
in the traditional tale of morality, we would have some struggles and then there would be some redemption at the end and it would have a big grand payoff. But The Picture of Dorian Gray does not have a grand path. There is no redemption. There is no triumph at the end of the book. All that happens is Dorian dies. So although there is themes of Christian morality throughout the book, this isn't attrition, a traditional Christian tale. There is complexities to this. After setting off Dorians initial downfall by introducing him to Lord Henry and painting the homoerotic picture. Basil Hallward takes on the role of a moral character a positive influence and Dorians life trying to influence him to do the right and good thing. However, this is interesting because basil Hallward dies partway through the book.
"FiRsT cOmMeNt"
this kid has rizz
P
I believe one can be decadent and still have a Beautiful Soul
Nice decorated guitar in the background, I bet you cant play it with those lights rapped around the neck.
I decoded. Jacked Ripper. Highjack r i p.
Sherlock Holmes Sherlock (. Dog
And. Holmes. The Police man
The Story
Jack Ripper
Or the succesfully naboers
Boy
High Class murderer
More interest media then,. Effect murders
Wife, or
All I know about this movie is that’s it’s sexist and women’s are used as trash in it, the wrong things happening with women are never depicted but the problem of men which even isn’t half as saddening as women’s
TL;DR Wilde writing about how women were nothing is insightful to our understanding of the societal values at the time. It also shows the characterisation of hedonistic qualities of characters like Lord Henry and Dorian.
Firstly, the movie is a very inaccurate representation of the book itself (highly recommend you read the novel instead, def won't be disappointed). Also the whole point of disregarding women is meant to showcase Lord Henry's hedonistic beliefs (he legit openly states how he cheats on his wife and she cheats on him- again, his sinful beliefs) while it also implies the beliefs of society in general in the Victorian Era in England. You gotta realise that if men being homosexual was heavily discriminated against in those times, women were not even considered to have value enough to be homosexual...