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Sail Life - Victron Energy Smart Shunt and leaky chain plate
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- Опубликовано: 13 авг 2024
- Mads fixes a leaky chainplate and installs two Victron Energy Smart Shunts to monitor the energy consumption of the freezer and the fridge. Ava goes for "hash" with Zack and Becka from @TeuluTribe
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Mads: "Some day I swear I'm gonna do proper cable management in here and make it look nice and tidy"
Me: That's literally already tidier than any cable management job I've ever done...
Me too
Tidier than any job I'll ever do too.
So true. I come from the "birds nest" school of cable management 😅
#Same
no kidding... i have to shove my panel closed with my shoulder to get it to latch. too many spaghetti wires.
Welcome to hashing, it's a great way to make friends all over the world and see less trodden paths. You'd be surprised how many kennels there are.
Next boat? Story for another time? Now that's a cliffhanger!
Mads - sorry if I am repeating this but I cannot read all the comments.
The reason you are getting ice around the freezer lid is because the freezer compartment is ‘sucking’ air into it. You need to revise the sealing arrangement.😀👍⛵️
Great info and data as always. That's at least the second time you have referred to "next boat" DON'T tell Athena! 🤫
AVVVVAAAAAAAAAAAA! I am also a crocheter 🧶🧶 and i really truly wish i could show you some of my work! Crochet saved me in a very dark time of my life and i have continued with it for over 10 years now. When i saw your seagull (in maine we call em shit pokes) and your stitching i knew that you LOVE it just as much as me. Has anyone ever told you that your stitches mimik a machine?! Meaning, every stitch is exactly the same , no stowaways , its truly incredible work. I love taking a pattern and tweaking it, or smooshing two patterns together. I wait for the day i could show you some of my work and it would be an incredible honor if i could ever craft something for you and madds to put aboard Athena! 🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶
While Ava was doing the Hash I kept thinking how funny she could have made a spoof video. 😂. Great job guys
Ahoy there Mads... Though a Landlubber I may currently be, I am interested in the efficient storage of foodstuffs for long, medium and short-term durations. Especially when power consumption and ongoing maintenance requirements are critical factors to the overall success of the project. So how you would build your own refrigerator and/or freezer to equal if not surpass a commercially manufactured unit has me intrigued.
Ahoy there Eva... You look like you're having a ball... Such a walk looks like waay too much fun... I think I'd rather get sprayed afterwards with water, than beer though. I'm kinda glad you didn't get yourself lost in the jungle... I say kinda because part of me wonders at the image of Mad's transformation into a Viking-Tarzan hybrid as he sets out, tearing up the countryside to find his damsel in distress... "AAAARGH!" A great episode as usual. Thank you both!
Looks like Matt is going to be building a freezer !
Our fridge is an Ozefridge eutectic icebox conversion system from Australia. It draws 100w or so when running and only runs a couple of times a day or so depending on ambient temperature and how many cans of warm soda gets put in and cold soda removed.every day to drink I think most of the power this fridge uses/wastes is in making warm diet coke into cold diet coke.
But it never draws zero power because of the controller computer circuitry draws 1.5 watts all of the time even when the compressor is not running.
To keep our freezer seal near 100% air & moisture leak-proof we bought a big 36" x 36" silicone counter cover that totally covers the fridge hatch which generously overlaps the freezer top opening by a few inches. That's the best outer seal possible. We can spill a glass of water on the counter and not a drop makes its way down into the fridge which wasn't the case before we got that silicone cover.
We use a cheap $20 Amazon Chinesium shunt and LED power meter to track the performance of the fridge -as well as others to track solar, wind, shore power, and alternator charge inputs and also for total draw. They aren't "smart" linked together or to a master meter, but show watts, amps, voltage at the moment as well as the cumulative total watt-hours through each shunt on its own meter. I can log these values and keep track or just ride them by the seat of my pants. As long as we are making more power than we are using and the battery voltage stays up things are all good. Total cost for all these meters was under $150 and replacements are cheap should they ever fail.
Yup - the Ozefridges are the standout option. I have heard nothing but good things about them.
The only downside is that they are on the other side of the world for US or European cruisers. Tech support is either in the middle of the night or an email reply is necessarily read the next morning. That is not usually a big deal but may result in the unit being down/thawed overnight instead of an immediate fix.
Parts take a long time to get too, and shipping is expensive from Australia. We were hit by lightning so I can't fault their equipment for failing when everything else electronic on the boat went down too, but I did have it up and going again the very next day because they had originally shipped a spare Danfoss compressor motor controller with the unit when new. That was a damned good thing because the new spare took weeks to get to us. We won't be going without a spare...
When the little freshwater circulating pump eventually died too we opted to source a local alternative rather than buy their official pump and have it shipped and bear the 4x cost because of shipping and then wait weeks. Many other items on the boat that did survive the lightning hit died in the next year or so. I'm crossing my fingers that the rest of the Ozefridge electronics keeps chugging away and the compressor itself doesn't eventually succumb to long-term lightning damage. If it did we would likely buy a whole new compressor unit.
HHH - Hash House Harriers - it used to be a running group that we used to meet up at different times and in different places it was awesome and a great way to meet people from all walks of life. I remember running all around Victoria Island in Hong Kong with the Embassies Hash, and then around the Kuringai National Park in Sydney with the Posh Hash. I was in the Can Hash, a warship group in the 70's it was great fun.
Regarding connectors that don't retain themselves very well: I had a similar problem for a component in my motorcycle, and I've had great success adding just a little dab of hot glue to the outside of the connector. It peels off easily with a pair of pliers if you actually need to separate the components again, but effectively retains the plug in the meantime.
Yup. It's standard procedure in most road worthy electronics that rely on these types of connections. Even the more common connection type with the little prongs are blobbed. It's efficient and it works, just know that it has a life-time, especially if subjected to heat. I think it's something like 5 years for the commercially available stuff. What they use in industrial environments lasts much longer, but, it is more difficult to get a hand on.
thats a great idea im going to use it on my little tw200!!!
My last House House Harrier run was in Bangui,, Central African Republic. Glad to see you on a run!
You might want to think about installing a "Soft Start" in your system, which is basically a bank of large capacitors which clips the the sudden spike/ surge of electrical draw from electrical motors and compressors. So the stored current in the capacitors will supply those required startup spikes and therefor save overall current needs during startup on such electrical motors and compressors. Same thing on the A/C, engine starters, pumps, etc. So 1 Soft Start on your entire AC/DC system should do the trick. That will clip off all those spikes and give you an overall current requirement on the vessel systems, plus add to the longevity of your batteries. Also consider saving your older cell phones (as long as they still work, the screen is not cracked and still holds a good charge) as a device that can hold those monitoring apps, without clogging up space on your new phones. They still can work and have functioning bluetooth and wifi connectivity.
When you own a boat this work never stops. Ever.
Next boat? I can hardly wait!
Interesting your findings re fridge and freezer.
I have recently built a new freezer for our boat.
The method was 75mm thick rigid polyurathane foam sides and top with 3 layers of the same foam in the bottom.
The freezer carcass is glued together with pva glue then fully encapsulated in fibreglass then painted in epxoy paint.
I used a 12 volt bd 50 isotherm compressor and evaporator plate.
The freezer is 90litres and is achieving -16 c the compressor runs for 5mins every 20 minutes.
This is a lot less than our fridge ,replacing the fridge is the next task.
It was nice meeting you today. Keep it positive, and happy travels.
Mads, you should not store diesel in a red jerry can. Gasoline goes in a red can. Diesel goes in a yellow container. Water goes in a blue container. You are creating the risk of destroying an engine. Love the show!
Thanks for this episode. It helped me decide on installing a 2 drawer Vitrifrigo DRW 180A in my boat. The defrost function will (hopefully) preclude the frost I have in my current configuration which is similar to yours. I also like that I can make each drawer a fridge or freezer.
Neoprene draught excluder on the door to the freezer-makes a huge difference... Loved the walk and commentary-excellent Ava! The connectors are flimsy on the Victron connect controls etc but I've not experience too many problems with them. Perhaps some heat shrink to hold it in place. All my cables are held in place with cable ties and nylon cable tie blocks- this certainly holds the cable firmly.
When you're state side, buy gel pouches for portable coolers and stuff them in your freezer to take up the empty spaces.
Firstly, that's going to even out the strain curve on the machine, because you have a bigger mass, less air, more retaining temp volumes (when you open the door, you're sucking in quite a bit of heat (that's why store freezers for ice cream, ice chests, have slide doors)).
Secondly, and the most important, the gel pouches act like batteries. That's cold storage in case your freezer dies or power dies. You won't get a long term use out of them, but depending on how many and how well the freezer is insulated... it's a lot more than without.
In my long term freezer storage, i have gel (you can buy it by the bucket for specific purposes) inside the freezer, and all the items are sealed inside vacuum bags and thrown inside. I've never tested the thing, but power was out intermittently for almost two weeks a year ago, while major repairs were done to our local substation and the draw on my solar system was almost invisible. The first three days was nearly continuous power outage and the freezer compressor only came online once, on the third day.
It's impossible to use this on a boat, for obvious reasons, but the gel pouches do work. They are designed for this, after all.
If they have a vac sealer they can make 1 liter bricks of 10-15 % salted tap water in vac bags. Same concept but cheaper I have 4 flat brick in the bottom of my freezer for extended temperature retention.
Good procedure for data collection, Mads. "In god we trust; all others bring data" - W. Edwards Deming
As I watched Young Barnacles, The Duracell Project, and Living on the Ocean rebuild their chainplates using carbon fiber I thought what a great way to not have to deal with leaks!
Loved the Hash, learned something new today 🙂
Mads, I anchored in Whisper Cove Marina last year. That was reasonable. There is also Clarke's Court Boatyard & Marina for hauling out and repairs.
Check your freezer lid with a camera inside. Use a flashlight torch to shine at the lid edges and you'll get an indication where energy rich warm air leak down into the energy deprived colder air inside the freezer. Your camera will catch every glimpse of light. It worked as a charm on my domestic freezer. I got about 40% lower energy consumption rebuilding the darn Electrolux floor freezer. There were some other flaws with the insulation around the compressor and condenser too but that was much less improvement than the seal and wonky lid/edge.
Thanks for not leaving us hanging! 😃
The "Hash" you participated in resembles the German "Volksmarch," it is a big public sport and is run by a Fedral Sports Association and you can get stamp books where each member club has their own unique stamp to identify the club and log the number kilometers you walk. After each book or level is filled you send in your stamp book to get a unique patch to wear on your jacket.
The hikes are usually held from sunrise to 5:00 PM. on both Saturday and Sundays... you could always do two a weekend if you were so inclined. The distances were usually 5, 10, 13 and 20 km
You also got a nice badge or plate for finishing the walk. Many hikes were themed and there was always a beer hall and sausages or other foods at the end and either wine or tea and water at each stamp station.
I would spend my weekends hiking and partying with the locals in all parts of Germany ..I got to visit many beautiful and senic parts of the country that way.
There are some marches that are military or team orentated, like the "March of Death," in Neimagen, the Netherlands; a 3 or 4 day endurance march usually done by military teams of the various nations mostly for bragging rights.
Rebuild the freezer now, it will drive you crazy. Also see if you can fit another inside that one and fill voids with more insulation. I liked my Engel.
Looking forward to next weeks data.
Well done Ava on the Hash House route. Most British Royal Navy ships have a small group of dedicated runners onboard and they are called Hash House Harriers.
Good ep guys, bonus like for the harmonized "See Yoooooou" at the end! 👍
Don’t worry about the timey wimey stuff Mads. We don’t require that things happen in real time or in the right order.
I thought Keith Whitaker on Sailing Zatara ( still do) was a real mechanical genius, but Mads is just light years ahead, just amazing what he has achieved!
Love the Hash House Harriers
Love all the gadgets, but as an engineer, my keep it simple mode kicks in. I always thought you should have built the freezer yourself, but off the shelf is sometimes the easiest options. See you next week and thanks. John
Hope your Detroit get together turned out well. I was too far away to attend. Maybe some day you will get to Lake Superior. In which case, I'll buy lunch and drinks.
Another great job reporting on what you can find, or do, wherever you go. Keep it up.!
I also have an isotherm freezer, but one with the door on the front. Build quality is incredibly poor. I had a terrible frost problem, which was solved by simply sealing the outer case to the inner liner with aluminum tape. The top shelf also wouldn't freeze. On their web site they call it a "chiller shelf" as if anyone wants a chiller shelf in their freezer. I installed an air circulation fan at the back of the top shelf with a piece of plastic board made to force the fan to draw air from behind the evaporator. Now I have a freezer that will keep ice cream hard on any shelf, and has almost no frost. The compressor still runs nearly continuous due to poor insulation.
Sorry to kick you off the mooring ball. We normally prefer our anchor, but we're back in the US for a few weeks.
great video guys. That Hash looked like so much fun. I hope there were drinks afterwards!
I have no reason why but when you two sign off at the end of video with please remember to leave a like I start smiling 😊probably it’s because you look happy in life and that’s why we watch cheers
You guys are awesome! It amazes me how you can do all the work on your boat and it always looks GREAT!
nice walk in the hills!
And might i say, i love when you/we get to nerd down in things. I can’t wait to next episode. Greetings from Kent in sweden
Nice one Mads, while you are beavering away doing diy Ava is checking out the culture, more of that I think and you should get out more.
Hello from Siesta Key Florida
You will get early warning .. our home fridge over a period of a few months started consuming an absolute tonne of power when running and also its duty cycle increased dramatically, in the end it still worked and I only got a new one cause I realised how much power it was using. This is a very worthwhile project, looking forward to your results.
I recently had a fridge die on me. The electricity bills were sky high regardless of the season so now I'm thinking that the fridge was the main culprit. Definitely worth looking into some sort of smart metering for major appliances.
You guys are awesome; usually your episode is one of the high points of my week. Gotta say, after following you for so long, every time I hear mention of a possible future boat rebuild, a get an endorphin hit! 😅
That was an awesome video guys, The fridge saga and the nature walk. Love your show.
Mads, Alidino from Sailing Magic Carpet, is just finishing up their fridge/freezer ~150mm of insulation.
Best wishes from the far North.
So it's official: Athena II and more glorious is coming. Good.
I remember when you were heavily into rebuilding Athena, before we had confirmation that Ava was "real" lol.. there was speculation that Ava was the name of a bigger boat (your next boat project). I am glad that Ava turned out to be real !.. Are you messing with us, with this talk of a boat to replace Athena ? I hope so.. you know Athena like you built her yourself.. which you did.. seems easier to build a new freezer lol.
Great update 2x👍 see you next time 🎵
for then flimsy connections. put a small dab of hot glue on the connection. it will hold it very well. and the use of a razor blade will cut it off if ya need to disconnect it. Its what they do for small circuit boards like on 3d printers and such.
I pray you never get hit by lightning! Your systems are so complex and vulnerable. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love what you’ve created, but….
Just as an FYI, I used a kill-a-watt to measure my full-size upright freezer power consumption. It uses about 2 kWh per day. Combination refrigerator/freezer uses about 1 kWh per day.
Thanks from west Texas
Hi,
From what I remember, your to be freezer will be top notch. The only improvement I could see would be to at least put a strip of insulation between the cold and the return hose of the refrigeration fluid. Avoid them touching at least. Not that it would make such a big difference, but in years time, it adds up…
Insulation should be about double thickness for the same material / coef. cond. (approximately, more is better)
Also, the “through hull” of the refrigeration fluid hose into and out of the freezer compartment should be insulated. I think, not sure, your fridge doesn’t have this passage insulated.
The lid must be air tight… and I can’t remember of anything else right now.
The seal of the lid should have some height on it, but not too much, it might deform the seal into a not so good seal. The pressure of the lid should be levelled with the box, etc, etc… when the lid is closed it will suck the lid in and let go in due time… all for the least amount of air exchange between the inside and the outside of the box.
I don’t know if it’s possible but these copper hoses (copper or whatever) should be as short as possible. Of course, the machinery should also be as far away as possible from the box not to heat the space where the box is.
“more is better” may not be correct. I’m just guessing, but somewhere in between the fridge thickness and the double of that should be fine.
The insulation material is just whatever with the lowest conductivity that doesn’t absorb water. (It’s supposed to be sealed anyway). The cheapest styrofoam will do just fine, but I’d say go crazy here.
Perfect title for a video. Mads Freezes - building a diy freezer
Meetin and greeting in Ira! It was nice to meet you two. You are just as cool as I thought you’d be! I’m going to try to get a picture with you before I leave. See you!
Well. I had an accident on the way home! I can’t believe it! It was a beautiful day for a ride but someone left a tree branch in the road and I hit it. Yep. Broke my knee.
That freezer's days are numbered. My guess is that Mads will build a new freezer on Athena. He just hasn't accepted that reality yet. 🙂
Athena's days are numbered methinks.
@@svbarryduckworth628 I do hear them mention their next boat a lot. I think Mads likes boat projects more than cruising.
@@ericturner2477 Mads did a lot of work custom fitting-out and configuring Athena except one should really go cruising full-time for a couple of years FIRST before such a project to better fully understand what one needs out of a full-time cruising boat. I know Mads did a lot of research before he designed and built practically every detail inside and outside of Athena but nothing really beats real experience in this regard. I'm sure there are many things he would do differently next time.
Love that autosol
Been watching you guys for years….you always produce such great content!
When you get state side see if a common refrigerator gasket will fit your freezer, you can epoxy a metal piece to the lid so it fully seals. Or get a freezer gasket from McMastercarr it is a magnetic sticker and magnetic seal designed for -40c
Have to love Ave, Super fortitude.
Mads, if you do build yourself a freezer, I'd love to see you use VIP Insulation panels. Supposedly they are something like R-30 per inch. The compressor won't have to work too hard to maintain temps with that, and you'd probably gain tons of extra space in the process.
Uh... Next (boat) Ship, Can't wait 😁😁
7:43 hot glue blob OR take apart the mother/father part of the connector and solder the wires directly to the board down to another connector on the wire, that's rated to take the strain (threaded one, being the best).
i grant you +100 nerd points for this video.
Very informative, thanks.
I'm a big fan of both Sikaflex and butyl tape; however, when working in warmer weather, I find the 291 LOT (long open time) tends to seal more reliably for me. The non-LOT version can start to set very quickly, and, if you shift the fitting the slightest amount, you may end up with a compromised seal (this was a BIG problem with my Jet Thruster pump install, requiring a quick haul out and thru-hull redo). The LOT also has the advantage of being a bit easier to get multiple uses out of a single tube, so I tend to waste less of it.
Already talking about next boat. :-) You've been sailing that one for how long now? Take it easy you two and enjoy your time on the water.
Knew it !
Do I see a heat/rain cover business opportunity here Mads!?!?!😉
Great walk Ava..so nice..so good company..😅👍
That ISO THERM freezer sucks. Yeah, I would be looking for ways to add insulation to the outside AND try figure out a way around the ice build up on the gasket surface as well. The 'ol double wango on that one. Could possibly just got straight to building one gutting the system of the ISO THERM of its compressor, condensing and evaporation coils. I am sure you could find a cold plate to replace to evaporation coil though. Hopefully you still your vacuum pump aboard. If not you gat just gut a junked refrigerator whose compressor is still good at a scrap yard and inject oil into it to suck the moisture from the re-vamped system before re-filling it with refrigerant. Old scrapped AC&R compressors make good vacuum pumps in a pinch for clearing out moisture without spending a ton on a new vacuum pump. They will never suck down to the micron level but 21" is all you really need when dealing anything but absorption systems.
To avoid ice in the lid put a little heatcable there
Amazing as always ❤
Already talking about next boat? Haha mads you madman
Hate to say it, but a Mad's built freezer with a eutectic tank unit sounds pretty spot on... just saying.
Great video
I think the culprit behind the leak was the size of the chamfer. The volume of butyl in that void was probably more susceptible to thermal expansion/contraction, but who knows. I'm firmly in Mad's camp on Butyl being the best bedding compound in most deck applications.
thats because it is!
Good job Mads😂
Most freezers have space between the insulation and the steel case. Why not add some insulation to the sides and replace the top seal with either a new one or a better one?
You need a frost free freezer. Our home freezer has no build up of ice what’s so ever. It happily chills to -25 . it basically gets rid of condensation and water Vapour which what makes all the ice form.
Frost free freezers use a heating coil, and force any frost to sublimate off and eventually go down a drain hole. During the defrost cycle, power consumption goes up and sometimes the heat ruins food that is too close to it. Sadly not ideal for a boat.
thanks alot
If you have a fitting that repeatedly leaks, then it may be that in that spot, there's more flexing of the hull/deck or what ever it is. Reinforcing the area of the fitting may be the only way to get an acceptable result. A few layers of carbon fiber and epoxy works wonders.
Is that generator working yet?
Will your next SV incorporate a Dry sauna vs the moist sauna you currently enjoy? LoL, well done sir!
I give Mads two weeks before he builds a new freezer.
It will be done after hurricane season when they reach US ports for easier DIY parts availability. So October/November timeframe .
Thanks from soaking wet UK😢
"On our next boat..." DAH DAH DAAAAAAHHHH! 🙂
Sailing Magic Carpet have just built their fridge, might be worth a look.
Aside from the seal issue on the Isotherm which I’m sure you’ll solve, how does the locations of the compressor compare for the fridge vs the freezer? Does on have an advantage (cooler location)? I believe the compressor on the Isotherm can be moved if that would help…
Btw this type of design like chainplate and extra cover plate leads to cravice corrosion underneath the Sika (or whatever you use). It takes years but one day it will fail.
with the eutectic fridge is it configured to always charge on spare solar or gen power when available, and not when it requires a full recharge eg does it recharge when fridge is at 90% charge to keep it at full thereby ensuring max time before it needs a full charge due to weather or lack of power - When working in NW of Australia (the outback mate) we had eutectic fridges and freezers and they would last 8 -10 days without power - fantastic, would love to build on for the house and charge on the spare solar the majority of the time
none of the nz boat builders here rec butyl tape. sika is commonly used.
if you think about it butyl squeezes down but not back. sika seals both ways when cured and adhesive qualities.
On our next boat? Hopefully they go cheap and want to do DIY. Come on oh glorious sanding.
Nice one.. surprised you didn't choose vacuum insulated sheets for your fridge freezer..
Wonder how close Mads is ready just "biting the bullet" in making the needed repairs on the genset. Spending so much on the #FischerPanda genset , maybe it's time to resume in getting use out of it .