I stumbled across your mosaic video just a few minutes after my first attempt at trying to stack a mosaic in Siril just to see what would happen. Good job covering all the twists and quirks.
Excellent! Thanks for mentioning the shortcoming of the Seestar , that I have also noticed, but it seems like nobody wants to talk about these and there . Also my own conclusions after owning it for 1 year. 1. First few frames can can have the satellite /airplane trails and won't be rejected 2. Seestar should have a framing-check every once in a while to stop the drifting away. All it needs to do is do a plate solve every certain number of subs. I struggle with this a lot, I can't stack more than 2-3 minutes or struggle for hours to get an hour of stack. That includes restarting the stacking 5-10 times on the same DSO. I believe my unit- being one of the very first ones pre ordered- might have a mechanical issue. 3. Periodic auto-refocus. Focus can change over night, especially Autumn and Spring with big temperature swings between day and night. 4. Mosaic mode sounds like a great idea, but I think with my own specific unit, that would force me to buy a new unit due to the faulty one one I got and I feel it's like a gamble again(another $500) or just wait until the S30, which will be $200 cheaper and offer a wider field of view and an updated camera sensor, while also still offering a mosaic mode.
the drift definitely sounds like an issue with your specific unit - not acceptable if you ask me. I don't believe the focus would be a huge issue with such a tiny piece of equipment - I can normally image with other optics of similar size throughout the night without any noticable focus shift. The option to refocus would be nice though
Thank you for the very practical information, especially related to stacking. Also, the insight provided on the inefficiency of the data gathering process is an eye opener. I like to process my own Seestar images, and as you so clearly explained, it will make me think twice before using mosaic mode. Subscribed!
Thank you! I'm sure they will keep improving the efficiency, though the processing power is the one they have, so perhaps longer subs would be the way to go?
Great introduction, thx. And also thx for a closer look to processing in pi. Very profound. And I must say that the result is really good. The first time where I can honestly say this. Ok, very bright object, but very short integration time. Mosaicmode seems not to be the real game changer for now, but we will see. I'm looking forward to your calibration frame video. We will see if I will get in love with this small thing.
This is the first version of the mosaic feature. Be patient. They improved every new feature they implemented over time. We are talking absolut a 500$ device and they already did more FREE software upgrades than we could expect. Mosaic obviously works fine and it will get better and better.
Sure, in fact it’s still in testing and hopefully it will be improved on before it’s pushed into the productive version. However as I am a beta tester it’s right that I actually test and find issues - it’s the only way it will get better.
I’ve been doing some research on the SeeStar 50 with a view to making a purchase in the very near future … and your video turned up in my iPad feed. Very interesting. Is this mosaic option available in the app if I were to download it today. And if not, do you know when it will be available? Thanks.
Very interesting and thorough look at the beta mosaic option for the Seestar. I may try it when the public version becomes available, but I also have a Dwarf 3 due to arrive late next month so am likely to be using that to image larger objects such as M31 and the Cygnus Loop.
Thank You. This is highly interesting and makes the difficulties of implementing the mosaic mode very clear. I had already suspected that mosaic imaging with the Seestar would be very lengthy, but also underestimated the necessary calculation time. It might be good to be able to switch off internal stacking completely. On the other hand, external software is then necessary, Siril cannot automatically assemble mosaics and Pixinsight is quite expensive.
It would be a great option to turn off stacking. However then the manual process I did would be an even bigger challenge with no reference field of view to register to!
You do a great technical and spontaneous job. Dont worry about being perfect. I was very impressed seeing your work for the first time. You do hurry a bit. Maybe try to present less. Perhaps in two videos instead of one. I have made lots of astro videos but never any with oral presentation, only with text. Your technical knowledge and attractive personality is a great combination.
Excellent explanation! I was wondering about this new mosaic routine-it's not without its challenges 🙂 Are you still enjoying the clear skies of beautiful La Palma, or have you already returned to ???
I think the flattener is already included - the field seems entirely correct! A larger sensor would be great but would increase the cost and make calibration frames even more necessary
Whatever we get, it can't be final until we get an equatorial mode in addition. THEN you'll be able to collect mosaics with meaningful lengths of exposure over successive nights.
@@the_space_koala Yeah, you are correct. A little over a month. Siril Script I've been using to clump all the data together for multiple days. requires 1.2.0 # Set precision to 16 bits set16bits # Convert Light Frames to .fit files #Convert all fits found in the home folder into Sequence lights convert light -fitseq -out=process cd process #Calibrate Light Frames #Decode the color matrix calibrate light -debayer #Remove background gradients (adjust if needed) seqsubsky pplight -rbf -samples=20 -tolerance=0.5 -smooth=0.5 #Align lights #and register the images to each other #First, create a registration but only save it #temporarily register bkg_pp_light -2pass #Then apply the registration seqapplyreg bkg_pp_light -framing=max -drizzle -filter-round=0.3 -filter-bkg=3k -filter-wfwhm=10 #Set precision to 32 bits set32bits # Stack calibrated lights to result.fit # Stack all registered images. The file name will be extracted from the FITS header stack r_bkg_pp_light rej 3 3 -rejmap -norm=addscale -output_norm -rgb_equal -out=../results/result.fit # Now move to the results folder cd ../results # flip if required # Load the stack, flip it, and save again load result.fit # Remove hot pixels find_cosme 3 3 # Flip the image mirrorx -bottomup save result.fit # Save the stack with data in the file name save linearstack$OBJECT:%s$$DATE-OBS:dm12$$LIVETIME:%d$s # Load the result image # and load it again load result.fit #Save the final stretched image savejpg final$OBJECT:%s$$DATE-OBS:dm12$$LIVETIME:%d$s savepng final$OBJECT:%s$$DATE-OBS:dm12$$LIVETIME:%d$s #savetif command not working yet with path parsing #savetif final$OBJECT:%s$$DATE-OBS:dm12$_$LIVETIME:%d$s savetif result_final load result_final.tif
yeah I think you just need a wedge and point it more or less to the North (or the South). Polar alignment wouldn't need to be accurate because it's going to plate solve and build a model regardless!
Another excellent video-thank you, SK! I hope the smart telescope industry inspires newcomers to catch the astronomy bug. I also hope you had the chance to take advantage of the pristine skies for your own projects. In your opinion, how do you see smart telescopes shaping the field of astronomy now and in the future?
For me smart scopes are for electronically assisted astronomy not for astrophotography. Of course you take photos but with the current designs you’ll just never reach the quality we expect from an astrophoto. The direction seems to be going towards even smaller/simplified designs, understandably so. It will stay a valid option for people new to astronomy and I think it’s great for that but I don’t see them take over because as long as they don’t make 8”+ designs, traditional scopes will keep having an edge
Great video and thanks for sharing. It seems as though it has moved from a quick and easy session snaping numerious targets in one night to a much more dedicated affair. Not what i imagined it was going to be and not for everyone i suppose given the time required.
I agree - whoever wants to keep it simple should definitely just stick to the single frame mode! It’s nice to have this option though for those who like a challenge
Your observation that the amount of image data on a single 9 panel image was only about 20 minutes was very helpful. This leads me to wonder if there is some way to combine multiple nights of the mosaic routine and have the SS process it later AS IF it was a single night's capture sequence? IF that was possible, I'd also like to do that with data from multiple nights of regular captures. This is because I'm very impressed with the simplicity and quality of the SEESTAR's internal image processing. It's often better than what I can produce through other free stacking and processing programs. Please keep up the good work. 🐨🐨🐨🐨🐨🐨🐨
I don’t believe there is a way to do this currently. I mentioned it would be nice to have a “continue observation” option. Vaonis just implemented it for their scopes this week, so I wouldn’t be surprised if ZWO came out with it as well. I’m surprised you get better results with the internal stack, I have the opposite experience
@@the_space_koala It wouldn't be feasible on an alt-az configuration anyway. On an equatorial mount, up in the photo is always a single compass direction. Up changes from minute to minute with an alt-az and from day to day, the mosaic would no longer assemble properly. The best that could be attained would be a circular view centered on the center of the frame, less than half the area of the entire frame. Then you would have to overlap and blend the circles, making the mosaic process need many more mosaic elements to assemble. Without an equatorial mode, I don't see an efficient solution to this. Since the S30 will have an equatorial mode, I'll bet one is coming also for the S50.
Agree, a few more BATA versions should be built/reviewed before production. Will I use it? I think yes but minimally. Andromeda!!! The current FOV seems to work on most of my captures. Bought my S50(my one and only) in Jan, captured around 250 images. So much fun. I would probably like the FOV rotation. Good video. Thank you.
Great video thankyou.I'm waiting for my Dwarf 3 to come so hopefully I'll never have to use the mosaic on my seestar, especially if it's a lot of hassle.
A lot of people are doing it however there is no official support for it. People put it on a wedge then the scope compensates for not being level which reduces field rotation
Wow, glad to learn ZWO is working on mosaic. The foot is in the door. I feel it will only get better. Any guess on when it will be released to the public? PS Very glad I found your channel.
I do have a vespera (2 actually) and the covalENS mode used to be the only main selling point to choose the Vespera over the Seestar. Now that it is out I'm not sure that's the case anymore
My seestar throws out 2/3 of the images when imaging a single object. It takes an hour to get 20 min of usable data. Could be planes or satellites causing the issues. Who knows. Thank you for this video, very informative.
@the_space_koala no, I get a lot of star trail messages. I live near several airports, so could be planes in my exposure. I''m going to very dark skies this weekend to try it and see how it goes. Thanks
Does anyone know how it may be possible to stack the mosaics separately on Siril? I would like to do my own stacking and processing but a PixInsight subscription isn't really in the budget.
Good job, make a lot of sense what you explained, I used also Seestar in equatorial Mode and works fine, but they do not an option to set it in equatorial mode works because the sky alignment process, any changes in beta about equatorial mode? Thank you for your time, great place you have all skies for you.
Thank you so much. If you chose a smaller framing box, does it still take 9 images? Unfortunately I'm lucky if I can get 2 straight hours of shooting , where I live.
9 was just the equivalent number of panels it would take for the maximum field of view - not the actual number of panels! But yes, if you choose a smaller FOV, it will finish quicker.
Detailed video, nice work. Personally I'm not blown away by any of the smart telescopes, the imaging results are just not that good. I'm sure in a few years they wil be significantly better but probably no replacement for traditional AP-gear. They are great for outreach though.
It would be great if you could disable live-stacking, both for mosaic and the normal mode. I'm always quite tight on time since I can't shoot from my home and losing any time doing processing is a waste for me since I do my own stacking anyway :/
Thanks for a nice demo and excellent explenation and pointing out the issues. This makes me conclude that Seestar S50 is no good for imaging large objects such as Andromeda and I should probably look for another setup to get a decent result. Maybe Vespera III or Seestar S30 (which I hope will support EQ mode)
I think they will release mosaic mode only once they have addressed the obvious lagging issue. I am expecting to test the S30 soon so I look forward to seeing how it performs
I can't seem to find a link anymore, I will come back to your comment if I come across it again - I think I saw it posted on social media in one of the Vespera groups. In any case the idea was the same that you use the stacked TIFF as the reference image and then you just let the software work its magic just like any other preprocessing workflow
I don’t believe DSS would be able to do it as you cannot define an external registration template. A good free option is Siril! I’ll be showing more details on the processing when I do the video on the smart scope calibration frames as well!
Interesting review, in my experience Seestar is somehow temperamental. For instance, sometimes it start failing stacking, though i really couldnt figure out the reason, for instance there are no clouds nor wind, it might start failing stacking and discarding exposures, then somehow it starts stacking again. Also i have had quite horrible experience attempting to capture subjects above 70° over horizon. It just starts failing stacking, and discarding frames. There is the field rotation issue that starts being noticeable after 1h or so. I think a useful and simple feature would be to be able to keep raw exposures, even that it failed stacking, so then could be possible to stack by yourself. Nowdays it discards frames it was not able to stack. I wonder how seestar would compare to other smart telescopes like vaonis vespera in terms of mosaic feature.
@@the_space_koala thanks for responding. No, it does not store all of them. In the option: "Save each frame in enhancing" The tip states: "When turned on, Seestar saves every image successfully stacked in stargazing mode." So, the image must be "successfully stacked" in order to be saved. Otherwise it is discarded. It might help sometimes to keep them always, being able to override that to "store all files always".
@@the_space_koala well, not sure as i was not able to see the failed ones. Somedays ago I went to photograph the comet "C/2023 A3" it seemed the tracking was quite accurate. However as it was low in the horizon and there were a bit of clouds. it cuouldn't find enough stars to do stacking and it discarded ALL the images, so in the end i got nothing nor a single frame, nor a jpg nothing at all. I'm extremely sure, those frames at least a group of them, could have been stacked afterwards. It was quite a deception. I do understand that most of the times it discards them is due to trailing. However i would think it costs little effort to add a sub option in that menu to tell seestar to just save all the captures or just the successful ones. Then let the end user to decide what to do with them afterwards. Thanks for responding :)
I wish I lived in a place where I would get 9 hours of dark without clouds, etc. I don't have a Seestar and have been watching to see if I would want to try one but for me personally I'm still going to wait..
Very good telescope. I would transport it on a mountain and use it for taking new objects, like the new comet C/2023 A3 (Tsuchinshan-ATLAS) and make a mosaic. M 31 start to be boring in long run.
They dropped the public release with minimal changes, seems like they prioritized the whining of people and just let it loose before being fully polished.
I think they only let you do a significantly smaller mosaic - which helps with the otherwise impossible completion in a single night haha. I also think that most people are not as critical as me and they seem to like it! Though I have yet to see a mosaic that's not M31
@@the_space_koalaI did a 2 panel on Markarian's chain last May. Getting the 2 areas stitched will be nice to try and see. Hard to capture this time of year. I'll keep checking throughout the winter. Any thoughts on another target besides M31?
It seems a bit strange that one is going to buy a seestar for the convencience, and also invest in pixinsight costing about as much as the smart telescope and invest a lot of time actually learning how to use it.
@@the_space_koala That's what happened to me. ;) I did a trial of PixInsight but didn't like the interface or complexity. I keep thinking about purchasing it though. It appears to produce the best results and I'd like to use BlurXTerminator with it. I might have to get it as Siril can't seem to stack all the frames from the latest Seestar beta mosaic. I lost 199 frames out of 543 during registration using the Siril OSC_Preprocessing_WithoutDBF_With_Mosaic.ssf script (below). The Seestar-produced fit file, while containing all 543 frames, is less than desirable. It appears the only change to the original script noted in the comments is the addition of the seqapplyreg pp_light -framing=max command. If you have any tips for stacking Seestar beta mosaics in Siril, I'd appreciate hearing them. Thanks for the great video. ############################################ # Script for Siril 1.0 # August 2020 # (C) Cyril Richard / Colmic # OSC_Preprocessing_WithoutDBF v1.0 # ########### PREPROCESSING SCRIPT ########### # Script for color camera preprocessing # needs 1 set of RAW images in the working # directory, within 1 directory: # lights # ############################################ requires 0.99.4 #preprocess lights cd lights convert light -out=../process cd ../process preprocess light -debayer #align lights register pp_light seqapplyreg pp_light -framing=max #stack calibrated lights stack r_pp_light rej 3 3 -norm=addscale -output_norm -out=../result cd .. close
Not fair if seestar owners get mosaic mode for free just with an update, when those of us who wanted mosaic ability already built in to they're smartscope had to pay out more than 3 times of the price to get the Vespera. I hope they never catch up to Vaonis at that cheap price.
@@screedy1050 it's always like this with any product. Disruptors pay the price of R&D and other companies follow for a fraction of the price. They did something unique years ago with the Stellina and since then a myriad of companies have followed. On the other hand, Vaonis don't seem to listen to feedback from experienced astrophotographers that could help them remain in the lead on the market which is a real shame...
Interesting topic, I keep checking for updates on the Seestar, but I won’t be testing any beta versions. I have one criticism: unfortunately, I had to stop the video because of the voice. It really doesn’t work for me.
First timer here, the first thing i saw was how you are standing...You need to go to a chiropractor to set you straith, your back, hips ect...Too much stress if i have to guess. look the word up on YT if you never had it, it will make you a new woman.
That would be nice but definitely much less portable, I guess 😊 I need to throw all this in my car to go to my dark site. A lift that is heavier then the OTA doesn’t solve my problem unfortunately
I appreciate the feedback. I understand it can be annoying to some. However, as these videos are candid and unscripted, others would find the “umm” and pauses equally frustrating. I’m trying to get better at speaking but in the meantime I need to keep the pace of the videos up so that I don’t post 40 minute videos 😁
@@the_space_koala pauses are usually not noticeable to the viewers. Perhaps taking a public speaking class. I've had to do them. They can teach you methods to avoid those filler words. It's not hard, especially if you are comfortable watching yourself recorded. Many people are not. And there is nothing wrong with scripting. GenAI systems can help dramatically and get you to the next level. Good luck.
Never saw anything by you before. You are very good - clear, concise, easy to understand. I look forward to your Seestar calibration frame video.
Thank you for the kind words and I'm glad you're enjoying my content!
Very easy to understand your explanation. I can't wait to use the mosaic mode on my Seestar.
I stumbled across your mosaic video just a few minutes after my first attempt at trying to stack a mosaic in Siril just to see what would happen. Good job covering all the twists and quirks.
so you made it work then? :)
Excellent! Thanks for mentioning the shortcoming of the Seestar , that I have also noticed, but it seems like nobody wants to talk about these and there .
Also my own conclusions after owning it for 1 year.
1. First few frames can can have the satellite /airplane trails and won't be rejected
2. Seestar should have a framing-check every once in a while to stop the drifting away. All it needs to do is do a plate solve every certain number of subs.
I struggle with this a lot, I can't stack more than 2-3 minutes or struggle for hours to get an hour of stack. That includes restarting the stacking 5-10 times on the same DSO.
I believe my unit- being one of the very first ones pre ordered- might have a mechanical issue.
3. Periodic auto-refocus. Focus can change over night, especially Autumn and Spring with big temperature swings between day and night.
4. Mosaic mode sounds like a great idea, but I think with my own specific unit, that would force me to buy a new unit due to the faulty one one I got and I feel it's like a gamble again(another $500) or just wait until the S30, which will be $200 cheaper and offer a wider field of view and an updated camera sensor, while also still offering a mosaic mode.
the drift definitely sounds like an issue with your specific unit - not acceptable if you ask me. I don't believe the focus would be a huge issue with such a tiny piece of equipment - I can normally image with other optics of similar size throughout the night without any noticable focus shift. The option to refocus would be nice though
Thank you for the very practical information, especially related to stacking. Also, the insight provided on the inefficiency of the data gathering process is an eye opener. I like to process my own Seestar images, and as you so clearly explained, it will make me think twice before using mosaic mode. Subscribed!
Thank you! I'm sure they will keep improving the efficiency, though the processing power is the one they have, so perhaps longer subs would be the way to go?
Great introduction, thx. And also thx for a closer look to processing in pi. Very profound. And I must say that the result is really good. The first time where I can honestly say this. Ok, very bright object, but very short integration time. Mosaicmode seems not to be the real game changer for now, but we will see. I'm looking forward to your calibration frame video. We will see if I will get in love with this small thing.
Thank you I’m glad it’s helpful!
I stumbled on your videos today. I look forward to seeing more. Thanks for your work here.
Mike in UK
thanks so much for saying that!
Hi, a great video thanks. I'm excited and cannot wait for the release.
Rick from Australia
Thanks Rick! I hope they release it soon, it’s been in testing for more than a month
This is the first version of the mosaic feature. Be patient. They improved every new feature they implemented over time. We are talking absolut a 500$ device and they already did more FREE software upgrades than we could expect. Mosaic obviously works fine and it will get better and better.
Sure, in fact it’s still in testing and hopefully it will be improved on before it’s pushed into the productive version. However as I am a beta tester it’s right that I actually test and find issues - it’s the only way it will get better.
I’ve been doing some research on the SeeStar 50 with a view to making a purchase in the very near future … and your video turned up in my iPad feed. Very interesting. Is this mosaic option available in the app if I were to download it today. And if not, do you know when it will be available? Thanks.
yes, it is now available on the regular app, not just the beta. they released it a few weeks ago!
Very interesting and thorough look at the beta mosaic option for the Seestar. I may try it when the public version becomes available, but I also have a Dwarf 3 due to arrive late next month so am likely to be using that to image larger objects such as M31 and the Cygnus Loop.
I’m also waiting on my Dwarf 😁
@@the_space_koala And don't forget the S30 coming soon to a station near you! It's a great time to be an amateur astronomer.
Thank You. This is highly interesting and makes the difficulties of implementing the mosaic mode very clear. I had already suspected that mosaic imaging with the Seestar would be very lengthy, but also underestimated the necessary calculation time. It might be good to be able to switch off internal stacking completely. On the other hand, external software is then necessary, Siril cannot automatically assemble mosaics and Pixinsight is quite expensive.
It would be a great option to turn off stacking. However then the manual process I did would be an even bigger challenge with no reference field of view to register to!
You do a great technical and spontaneous job. Dont worry about being perfect. I was very impressed seeing your work for the first time. You do hurry a bit. Maybe try to present less. Perhaps in two videos instead of one. I have made lots of astro videos but never any with oral presentation, only with text. Your technical knowledge and attractive personality is a great combination.
Thank you for your kind feedback
Very informative, what a beautiful location, incredible.
It really is! Not to mention the night time view...
Amazing video. I would give it a go when the option is available
Thanks, especially for the Pixinsight tips.
Happy to hear you found those useful!
Very helpful explanation of how this update currently is. The current efficiency issue is going to limit people to smaller mosaics IMO.
I agree, at least I hope it’s the case and not some insanely noisy images to come 😁
Outstanding video!!! Very clear and concise. Subscribed. Thank you.
thanks for being here! happy this is helpful
Excellent explanation! I was wondering about this new mosaic routine-it's not without its challenges 🙂 Are you still enjoying the clear skies of beautiful La Palma, or have you already returned to ???
It is definitely a challenging process to get a decent image out - I hope they will keep working on it to make it better!
@@the_space_koala Yep, or put a bigger sensor and a field flattener in that telescope, clear skies!
I think the flattener is already included - the field seems entirely correct! A larger sensor would be great but would increase the cost and make calibration frames even more necessary
Thank you for this informative video! I'm looking forward to getting the final version of the mosaic feature for my S50.
I hope it will be faster!
@@the_space_koala It would be interesting to compare S50 to the new Dwarf 3 telescope if you want!
I'm just waiting for the Seestar and also for an upgrade as you explain in the video.
Whatever we get, it can't be final until we get an equatorial mode in addition. THEN you'll be able to collect mosaics with meaningful lengths of exposure over successive nights.
nice review
Honestly I cant wait till it comes out, I hope a lot the of the issues are being worked out before release.
Yes, I hope they take all the feedback to heart!
@@the_space_koala Me to, a little excited to see what they come up with next.
I've been using mosaic mode for a month or so. The hardest part for me has been stacking multiple days of integration correctly.
A few months? I didn’t realize it’s been out that long, I only got it a month ago!
@@the_space_koala Yeah, you are correct. A little over a month.
Siril Script I've been using to clump all the data together for multiple days.
requires 1.2.0
# Set precision to 16 bits
set16bits
# Convert Light Frames to .fit files
#Convert all fits found in the home folder into Sequence lights
convert light -fitseq -out=process
cd process
#Calibrate Light Frames
#Decode the color matrix
calibrate light -debayer
#Remove background gradients (adjust if needed)
seqsubsky pplight -rbf -samples=20 -tolerance=0.5 -smooth=0.5
#Align lights
#and register the images to each other
#First, create a registration but only save it #temporarily
register bkg_pp_light -2pass
#Then apply the registration
seqapplyreg bkg_pp_light -framing=max -drizzle -filter-round=0.3 -filter-bkg=3k -filter-wfwhm=10
#Set precision to 32 bits
set32bits
# Stack calibrated lights to result.fit
# Stack all registered images. The file name will be extracted from the FITS header
stack r_bkg_pp_light rej 3 3 -rejmap -norm=addscale -output_norm -rgb_equal -out=../results/result.fit
# Now move to the results folder
cd ../results
# flip if required
# Load the stack, flip it, and save again
load result.fit
# Remove hot pixels
find_cosme 3 3
# Flip the image
mirrorx -bottomup
save result.fit
# Save the stack with data in the file name
save linearstack$OBJECT:%s$$DATE-OBS:dm12$$LIVETIME:%d$s
# Load the result image
# and load it again
load result.fit
#Save the final stretched image
savejpg final$OBJECT:%s$$DATE-OBS:dm12$$LIVETIME:%d$s
savepng final$OBJECT:%s$$DATE-OBS:dm12$$LIVETIME:%d$s
#savetif command not working yet with path parsing
#savetif final$OBJECT:%s$$DATE-OBS:dm12$_$LIVETIME:%d$s
savetif result_final
load result_final.tif
Yes, I tried this with the vespera and it was a mess. I didn't recognised that the seestar has it now. But I see light at the end of the horizon.
That’s just sunrise 😁
Why? Can't an external program do it right?
Great info. I wonder if an equatorial mode for seestar would help the mosaic function run more efficiently.
I think anything works better in equatorial 😁 if there was an EQ mode you’d be able to do regular mosaics
@@the_space_koala True, what I'd really like to see is a VCR function, where I can pre program various objects to be imaged throughout the night.
Yes this would be very helpful! It could also help with field rotation if you image the same object at the same time every night for 1-2 hours max!
I wonder if it is possible to 3d print a tiny eq platform style tripod head.
yeah I think you just need a wedge and point it more or less to the North (or the South). Polar alignment wouldn't need to be accurate because it's going to plate solve and build a model regardless!
Another excellent video-thank you, SK! I hope the smart telescope industry inspires newcomers to catch the astronomy bug. I also hope you had the chance to take advantage of the pristine skies for your own projects. In your opinion, how do you see smart telescopes shaping the field of astronomy now and in the future?
For me smart scopes are for electronically assisted astronomy not for astrophotography. Of course you take photos but with the current designs you’ll just never reach the quality we expect from an astrophoto. The direction seems to be going towards even smaller/simplified designs, understandably so. It will stay a valid option for people new to astronomy and I think it’s great for that but I don’t see them take over because as long as they don’t make 8”+ designs, traditional scopes will keep having an edge
@@the_space_koala thank you!
Great video and thanks for sharing. It seems as though it has moved from a quick and easy session snaping numerious targets in one night to a much more dedicated affair. Not what i imagined it was going to be and not for everyone i suppose given the time required.
I agree - whoever wants to keep it simple should definitely just stick to the single frame mode! It’s nice to have this option though for those who like a challenge
@@the_space_koala
I on the other hand run out of sky after a couple of hours thanks to all the trees and houses around me. 😀😀
Thank you for the information, now I can't wait until this software update comes on the market.
I like your video very much.
Glad you liked it!
Your observation that the amount of image data on a single 9 panel image was only about 20 minutes was very helpful.
This leads me to wonder if there is some way to combine multiple nights of the mosaic routine and have the SS process it later AS IF it was a single night's capture sequence?
IF that was possible, I'd also like to do that with data from multiple nights of regular captures. This is because I'm very impressed with the simplicity and quality of the SEESTAR's internal image processing. It's often better than what I can produce through other free stacking and processing programs.
Please keep up the good work.
🐨🐨🐨🐨🐨🐨🐨
I don’t believe there is a way to do this currently. I mentioned it would be nice to have a “continue observation” option. Vaonis just implemented it for their scopes this week, so I wouldn’t be surprised if ZWO came out with it as well. I’m surprised you get better results with the internal stack, I have the opposite experience
@@the_space_koala It wouldn't be feasible on an alt-az configuration anyway. On an equatorial mount, up in the photo is always a single compass direction. Up changes from minute to minute with an alt-az and from day to day, the mosaic would no longer assemble properly. The best that could be attained would be a circular view centered on the center of the frame, less than half the area of the entire frame. Then you would have to overlap and blend the circles, making the mosaic process need many more mosaic elements to assemble.
Without an equatorial mode, I don't see an efficient solution to this. Since the S30 will have an equatorial mode, I'll bet one is coming also for the S50.
Agree, a few more BATA versions should be built/reviewed before production. Will I use it? I think yes but minimally. Andromeda!!! The current FOV seems to work on most of my captures. Bought my S50(my one and only) in Jan, captured around 250 images. So much fun. I would probably like the FOV rotation. Good video. Thank you.
I agree with your sentiment - the mosaic makes sense for a few subjects only! Thank you
Absolutely outstanding video! Subscribed!
That means a lot, thanks for joining!
I've been wondering how they would implement mosaic - thanks for the insight into how it works
Thanks for watching!
Excellent informative video. I'll wait till November for the Dwarf 3 or S30.
Excited to see how they perform! I’m waiting on both scopes
Great video thankyou.I'm waiting for my Dwarf 3 to come so hopefully I'll never have to use the mosaic on my seestar, especially if it's a lot of hassle.
Seestar S30 will be out soon which will probably have a similar FOV and a 4K sensor like the Dwarf 3.
I’m waiting on my Dwarf 3 as well - then we will see who wins the ultimate smart telescope showdown 😁
Thanks for the video. I suppose that this scope could be used in equatorial mode, improving the framing and mosaics?
A lot of people are doing it however there is no official support for it. People put it on a wedge then the scope compensates for not being level which reduces field rotation
Great video. Thanks 😊
Glad it was helpful!
Wow, glad to learn ZWO is working on mosaic. The foot is in the door. I feel it will only get better. Any guess on when it will be released to the public? PS Very glad I found your channel.
Thank you! I don’t know when they will release it but I suspect they would want to fix the huge time delay before they do…
Idk If you got a Vespera then this is already in the scope and very easy to use
I do have a vespera (2 actually) and the covalENS mode used to be the only main selling point to choose the Vespera over the Seestar. Now that it is out I'm not sure that's the case anymore
My seestar throws out 2/3 of the images when imaging a single object. It takes an hour to get 20 min of usable data. Could be planes or satellites causing the issues. Who knows. Thank you for this video, very informative.
2/3 sounds way too many. Do you have tracking issues?
@the_space_koala no, I get a lot of star trail messages. I live near several airports, so could be planes in my exposure. I''m going to very dark skies this weekend to try it and see how it goes. Thanks
Sensacional, gostaria que não fosse tão caro na minha moeda local!
Does anyone know how it may be possible to stack the mosaics separately on Siril? I would like to do my own stacking and processing but a PixInsight subscription isn't really in the budget.
Can you make a video just on how to stack the fits files or put a link? I do it the classic way but it discards half the files . Thank you .
Good job, make a lot of sense what you explained, I used also Seestar in equatorial
Mode and works fine, but they do not an option to set it in equatorial mode works because the sky alignment process, any changes in beta about equatorial mode? Thank you for your time, great place you have all skies for you.
No they have not added any EQ mode support yet!
Thank you so much. If you chose a smaller framing box, does it still take 9 images? Unfortunately I'm lucky if I can get 2 straight hours of shooting , where I live.
9 was just the equivalent number of panels it would take for the maximum field of view - not the actual number of panels! But yes, if you choose a smaller FOV, it will finish quicker.
Thank you for this very informative video.
Glad it was helpful!
Detailed video, nice work. Personally I'm not blown away by any of the smart telescopes, the imaging results are just not that good. I'm sure in a few years they wil be significantly better but probably no replacement for traditional AP-gear. They are great for outreach though.
I feel the same way. The EVscope with its admittedly weird fake eyepiece is the single best piece of equipment to do outreach events in the city
@@the_space_koala I'm very much looking forward to the smart eyepiece from Pegasus Astro. The first piece of kit withe a decent sensor.
@@Miguel_Noppe me too! Though I can only imagine doing long exposures and someone touching it while observing and losing all the subs 😁
@@the_space_koala it has a safeguard feature for bumps 😉
@@Miguel_Noppe You folks are not the market for these telescopes. But you will be. Resistance is futile!
and just when seestar caught up to vaonis with the mosaic, vaonis moves ahead with multi-night stacking
I saw the update - competition between these companies is the best thing that can happen to these products 😊
not sure they compete. A $500 scope against a $2000 is like saying. Honda accord competes with an Audi A4
Thank you
업데이트 예정인가요? 아니면 현재 업데이트 되어있는건가요?
It would be great if you could disable live-stacking, both for mosaic and the normal mode. I'm always quite tight on time since I can't shoot from my home and losing any time doing processing is a waste for me since I do my own stacking anyway :/
I fully agree - as long as they cannot implement the stacking to be immediate - this should be an option!
saludo desde panama
Thanks for a nice demo and excellent explenation and pointing out the issues. This makes me conclude that Seestar S50 is no good for imaging large objects such as Andromeda and I should probably look for another setup to get a decent result. Maybe Vespera III or Seestar S30 (which I hope will support EQ mode)
I think they will release mosaic mode only once they have addressed the obvious lagging issue. I am expecting to test the S30 soon so I look forward to seeing how it performs
Could you share the siril script you mentioned at 17:56?
I can't seem to find a link anymore, I will come back to your comment if I come across it again - I think I saw it posted on social media in one of the Vespera groups. In any case the idea was the same that you use the stacked TIFF as the reference image and then you just let the software work its magic just like any other preprocessing workflow
Difficult to process with siril though and others have complaints as well
can you please do a more in-depth video on how to stack the mosaic files? maybe even using a free software like deepskystacker?
I don’t believe DSS would be able to do it as you cannot define an external registration template. A good free option is Siril! I’ll be showing more details on the processing when I do the video on the smart scope calibration frames as well!
Mosaic mode is out. The limited the framing to 2x rather than 3x presumably to mitigate the processing time issues.
Yes I saw that. It’s a good idea for them to do this until they find a way to speed it up!
Interesting review, in my experience Seestar is somehow temperamental.
For instance, sometimes it start failing stacking, though i really couldnt figure out the reason, for instance there are no clouds nor wind, it might start failing stacking and discarding exposures, then somehow it starts stacking again.
Also i have had quite horrible experience attempting to capture subjects above 70° over horizon. It just starts failing stacking, and discarding frames.
There is the field rotation issue that starts being noticeable after 1h or so.
I think a useful and simple feature would be to be able to keep raw exposures, even that it failed stacking, so then could be possible to stack by yourself.
Nowdays it discards frames it was not able to stack.
I wonder how seestar would compare to other smart telescopes like vaonis vespera in terms of mosaic feature.
I think if you enable the storing of .fits files it actually stores all of them, regardless if they were stacked or not!
@@the_space_koala thanks for responding.
No, it does not store all of them.
In the option: "Save each frame in enhancing"
The tip states: "When turned on, Seestar saves every image successfully stacked in stargazing mode."
So, the image must be "successfully stacked" in order to be saved. Otherwise it is discarded.
It might help sometimes to keep them always, being able to override that to "store all files always".
I understand. Wouldn’t it fail the stacking only if it has tracking issues though? Would you still want those frames?
@@the_space_koala well, not sure as i was not able to see the failed ones.
Somedays ago I went to photograph the comet "C/2023 A3" it seemed the tracking was quite accurate. However as it was low in the horizon and there were a bit of clouds. it cuouldn't find enough stars to do stacking and it discarded ALL the images, so in the end i got nothing nor a single frame, nor a jpg nothing at all. I'm extremely sure, those frames at least a group of them, could have been stacked afterwards. It was quite a deception.
I do understand that most of the times it discards them is due to trailing. However i would think it costs little effort to add a sub option in that menu to tell seestar to just save all the captures or just the successful ones. Then let the end user to decide what to do with them afterwards. Thanks for responding :)
I wish I lived in a place where I would get 9 hours of dark without clouds, etc. I don't have a Seestar and have been watching to see if I would want to try one but for me personally I'm still going to wait..
I feel your pain - I was away on an astro getaway. Where I live in Switzerland it's all clouds!
It struggles in the lightest clouds. I’d say it’s for perfect conditions only. I sold mine, it was a waste of time.
When the update comes?
They still haven’t announced!
Girl you are good
How did you get mosaic mode on Iphone? I downloaded the APK file for it but dont know what to do from there. I have an Iphone.
I think apk files are for android only. You need to sign up to be a beta tester and then download the test version from Apple TestFlight
@@the_space_koala ohh alrighty. Thanks a lot
Very good telescope. I would transport it on a mountain and use it for taking new objects, like the new comet C/2023 A3 (Tsuchinshan-ATLAS) and make a mosaic. M 31 start to be boring in long run.
I did take it to the mountain and used it for the comet, but doing a mosaic on a comet is next level difficult I'm afraid :)
Doesn’t seem to be available yet
It is available for about a week now. You have to update the app on your phone and then it will prompt you to update the firmware on the seestar
@ nope. Updated everything. Not available.
@ it’s called “framing”
@ found it. Thank you for the guidance. I was looking for something different.
모자이크모드는 최근에 업데이트된건가요?
it is a new feature, still in testing phase!
@@the_space_koala 정보 매우 감사합니다😀
They dropped the public release with minimal changes, seems like they prioritized the whining of people and just let it loose before being fully polished.
I think they only let you do a significantly smaller mosaic - which helps with the otherwise impossible completion in a single night haha. I also think that most people are not as critical as me and they seem to like it! Though I have yet to see a mosaic that's not M31
@@the_space_koalaI did a 2 panel on Markarian's chain last May. Getting the 2 areas stitched will be nice to try and see. Hard to capture this time of year. I'll keep checking throughout the winter. Any thoughts on another target besides M31?
Sorry about your throat, but please do the video again when your voice is back. Hard to understand 😥
it's just my voice lol
@@the_space_koala oh, sorry. Getting my seestar s50 on Wednesday. Gonna do some deepspace while photographing aurora 🤞
I have no interest in a Seestar but watched this anyway 😉
You should reduce the volume of that sound effect in your intro. It's like 10x louder than you talking, scared the shit out of me
@@saladfingers69420 sorry haha that’s a good point
It seems a bit strange that one is going to buy a seestar for the convencience, and also invest in pixinsight costing about as much as the smart telescope and invest a lot of time actually learning how to use it.
I think the thing is they will buy the seestar for the convenience, then fall in love with the night sky and want more
@@the_space_koala Yeah. You are probably right.
@@the_space_koala That's what happened to me. ;) I did a trial of PixInsight but didn't like the interface or complexity. I keep thinking about purchasing it though. It appears to produce the best results and I'd like to use BlurXTerminator with it. I might have to get it as Siril can't seem to stack all the frames from the latest Seestar beta mosaic. I lost 199 frames out of 543 during registration using the Siril OSC_Preprocessing_WithoutDBF_With_Mosaic.ssf script (below). The Seestar-produced fit file, while containing all 543 frames, is less than desirable. It appears the only change to the original script noted in the comments is the addition of the seqapplyreg pp_light -framing=max command. If you have any tips for stacking Seestar beta mosaics in Siril, I'd appreciate hearing them. Thanks for the great video.
############################################
# Script for Siril 1.0
# August 2020
# (C) Cyril Richard / Colmic
# OSC_Preprocessing_WithoutDBF v1.0
#
########### PREPROCESSING SCRIPT ###########
# Script for color camera preprocessing
# needs 1 set of RAW images in the working
# directory, within 1 directory:
# lights
#
############################################
requires 0.99.4
#preprocess lights
cd lights
convert light -out=../process
cd ../process
preprocess light -debayer
#align lights
register pp_light
seqapplyreg pp_light -framing=max
#stack calibrated lights
stack r_pp_light rej 3 3 -norm=addscale -output_norm -out=../result
cd ..
close
Not fair if seestar owners get mosaic mode for free just with an update, when those of us who wanted mosaic ability already built in to they're smartscope had to pay out more than 3 times of the price to get the Vespera. I hope they never catch up to Vaonis at that cheap price.
@@screedy1050 it's always like this with any product. Disruptors pay the price of R&D and other companies follow for a fraction of the price. They did something unique years ago with the Stellina and since then a myriad of companies have followed. On the other hand, Vaonis don't seem to listen to feedback from experienced astrophotographers that could help them remain in the lead on the market which is a real shame...
Useless.... Imho. Too much time for 20m exp for each frame
I agree in this form I would not use it - here’s to hoping they find a way to speed it up!
@@the_space_koala I don't think it'll ever be better. The S50 is just cursed with the crop it has.
Interesting topic, I keep checking for updates on the Seestar, but I won’t be testing any beta versions. I have one criticism: unfortunately, I had to stop the video because of the voice. It really doesn’t work for me.
Total gimmick.
First timer here, the first thing i saw was how you are standing...You need to go to a chiropractor to set you straith, your back, hips ect...Too much stress if i have to guess. look the word up on YT if you never had it, it will make you a new woman.
That would be nice but definitely much less portable, I guess 😊 I need to throw all this in my car to go to my dark site. A lift that is heavier then the OTA doesn’t solve my problem unfortunately
Ugh that thousand cut edit is going to give me a seizure
I appreciate the feedback. I understand it can be annoying to some. However, as these videos are candid and unscripted, others would find the “umm” and pauses equally frustrating. I’m trying to get better at speaking but in the meantime I need to keep the pace of the videos up so that I don’t post 40 minute videos 😁
@@the_space_koala pauses are usually not noticeable to the viewers. Perhaps taking a public speaking class. I've had to do them. They can teach you methods to avoid those filler words. It's not hard, especially if you are comfortable watching yourself recorded. Many people are not.
And there is nothing wrong with scripting. GenAI systems can help dramatically and get you to the next level. Good luck.