Inside a Rare Dual Sensor DSLR
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- My rare Minolta RD-3000 was only giving me a half-image, so I decided to take things into my own hands! What I found inside the camera was very, very cool. I hope you find it cool too.
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Dude, this is actually not too hard to fix. This two glass prisms are cemented with optical cement or canadian balsam (both will work) which create this prism block, and after some time they can start to "unglue" and this is exactly how it looks when that happen.
Fixing this problem is simple. To unglue and clean this "block" or two glued prisms you need to boil some water in a pot and create dry island in the center of pot where you will place your glass block (because glass shouldn't be at the bottom of hot pot). After water starts to boil, place this peiece of glass on the island and close the pot with cover and let it boil for 5-10 minutes. After that, use some gloves (because glass will be hot) and try to seperate the two prisms with hands.
After prisms are seperated, clean cement/balsam residue with 99% isopropyl alcohol (IPA) and some cotton swabs.
When two pieces are cleaned good, apply optical cement or canadian balsam. to reglue it back.
If you use optical cement, you need to set the glue with UV light and that's fastest method, and if you use canadian balsam, you need to wait at least 2 weeks to balsam to be set and hard.
If you're successful, reasamble everything back, and everything should be fine.
So since you have two of this cameras, now you can sell one to get some money back.
Wouldn't it be easier to just use a heat gun or hair dryer? i don't know how strong that type of glue is but generally a heat gun can separate any adhesive
@@lenshibo Heat gun can reach serious temperatures and glass can crack if you use it unevenly and too close, and hair dryer is too weak.
The best method is with hot water vapor.
@@themrworf1701 steam also creeps into small gaps which helps
omg... all those finger prints on glass and mirrors drove me bananas.
I was thinking how he even managed it
A bit sad that the camera could not be repaired. Perhaps one day you are lucky to find a broken one, but with the glas element in good shape.
Slap the camera 😂. Maybe it will wake up. Japan seems to have a great delivery system. Seems like a similar problem problem of the pentax k30. Aperture block failure.
That's what I'm thinking. Or just save it as parts for the working one I have.
Even if he did, he would not be able to re-attach the two sensors again. They are assembled and calibrated with a jig and then glued in place. Without the jig there is no way to assemble it into a working unit again.
@@snappiness contact some of the leica repair people. They might be able to split the prism and reglue/clean/kill whatevers happening there
@@snappiness check up my comment to see how to repair this. It's not that hard.
Not sure about double CCDs but triple CCDs were very common on digital camcorders. I have a couple of DVX100Bs with triple CCDs. A prism behind the lens splits the image into red, green, and blue images that go into their respective sensors. The camera combines these red, green, and blue images to achieve realistic and vibrant colors, moreso than a single CCD. My DVX100Bs have absolutely beautiful colors, it's crazy. Some modern camcorders use triple CMOS sensors.
I remember hearing something like that when I was a child and I didn't understand what it was
Minolta never stops amazing.
They invented so many thing that camera companies use today.
“Only From the Minds of Minolta”… Cool Video!!!
Thanks for sharing this one, an amazing looking camera! Sadly I do remember it, albeit only faintly... Gotta love any camera with a SCSI port! You're a brave person for opening it up, that's never ended well for me.
My hit rate is about 50/50 fixing or breaking electronics, but I figured I didn't have much to lose here. And now I'm super happy because the inside was so much more interesting than I thought.
@@snappiness it's always incredibly rewarding when you get an older camera working again - keep up the good work!
Hi Gordon....love your channel, always
These old cameras are nostalgic for me. Being around 30 it reminds me of that period in the 90’s and early 00’s where things were evolving so quickly. I love how things looked fun and interesting back then far more so then today. If you look at phones for instance, they haven’t changed significantly in design in 15 years. I would love to get more into this old tech but have found the Olympus E1 my favourite camera for a nostalgia trip. As you say some of these items are still pricey so you need to buy in moderation as otherwise you may be stuck with it when people don’t value it again. I do think being frugal in the camera hobby is important.
The Olympus E1 sounds great! I'm a big fan of the four thirds cameras!
You're a brave man! I've fixed a Panasonic screen but that is next level.
Love the images and your passion.
Sony took this when they bought Minolta and made it into (I don't know what to call it now), a separate focusing sensor through a translucent mirror, the live view focusing speed was very quick, I think it was the a380, but definitely the a99 and a77.
I want them to continue develop that...
I had the translucent mirror Alpha 55. You lost a stop of light from the translucent mirror, but it could shoot 10 fps so I thought the trade off was worth it. I wish I still had that camera so I could compare how bad the electronic viewfinder was compared to Sony's new OLEDs.
So kinda like the pellicle mirror versions of the EOS1
You could get a replacement split prism/beamsplitter. It won't be easy, but if there's a university with a solid physics or engineering department near you they might be tempted to take a stab at finding the proper replacement. And if you're close to Rochester, NY, then please take the faulty RD3000 to the Institute of Optics. It's like the Mecca of optical design in the US.
There's companies that sell optical components that might have an off the shelf beamsplitter that fits. Many of these companies also make custom optical components too.
@@lihtan
Indeed, but it's hard to know what to order for non-optics people, and thus my recommendation. Beamsplitters aren't super cheap, a trial-and-error approach is gonna hurt.
This has to be my favourite video of yours so far. It's also good fun to take a look inside the legendary Minolta 5400 Dimage scanner... if you ever go down that rabbit hole....
well, multiple sensor camera would be not quite common case, but some major cinema cameras, such as RED V-Raptor and ARRI Alexa 65. These cameras are basically digital film cameras, stitching multiple smaller sensors.
I never realized that until another person commenting the same thing about cinema cameras. That's a whole world I know nothing about! Cool!
The only thing I can think of for a solution of the hazy mirror thing, is a post i pentaxforums about removing haze in the fa 28-70 lens. There's a detail where they take appart the cemented elements, clean them and put them back together by applying fresh cement.
Amyway, naw that you have got a new working one, I guess you're not interested anymore.
I really like how at the time the designers and engineers didn't cut corners to get to a solution, they made it as complex as it needed to be, albeit with mixed results.
Thanks for the video James!
I didn't think about that, but maybe those same techniques for the rear cemented elements would work here. Good thinking. I thought maybe heating it up or something, but even after I get it apart I don't know what exactly I could do to clean it up.
Amazing video. It's truly one of a kind. It's fascinating to get a look under the hood of this late 90s engineering marvel. And I'm glad you fond a working one.
Absolutely lovely images at the end there. They do have a wonderful nostalgic look to them. Thanks for sharing this camera, such an interesting design!
Such an awesome idea. Wonder if they could do something similar with those periscope cameras in modern smartphones, to get around the sensor size restraints caused by the flat packaging.
I've been thinking the same for years now
You mean something like Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra periscope camera ? ;)
@@LostbySoul those are rather small. to get to 10x, they're using a 1/4" sensor. Wondering if they could pair two for better light gathering or a composite 5x.
@@nikytamayo They will rather use pixel shifting for composing image. It is cheaper, than another sensor... as Fuji doing it... But one thing will be still missing in phone camera... depth of field.
@@LostbySoul the only manufacturer I've seen do something similar to pixel shift is Honor Huawei with their full resolution AI, And it's more of straight exposure stacking.
Pixel shift should indeed be possible with modern OIS phones, but how accurately they can do it with tiny pixels is unknown!
And yes, DOF still sucks whatever you do.
Insane. Both the camera design and your obsession. Legend channel status.
I bought cameras already only to disassemble and try to understand how they work. My last cadaver was a Pentax K-10D. :D Wonderful video! I love this channel!
I still have my RD3000 and my S-100 film camera. I have a few lenses and the flash. My RD3K took a dive and landed on the top plate damaging the shutter button. The RD still worked save the shutter button. It’s been sitting on a shelf for ten years. I miss using both cams.
Great video and I'm glad you got it sorted.
Around 2008 maybe Sony used two sensors as well, in their DSLR models, from a300 to a580. (maybe some more)
This was before mirrorless, and the second sensor was a lower resolution, only for live view, with mirror down. (not for taking photos)
The idea was to still have fully functioning autofocus in live view, whereas Canon and Nikon only used contrast detect, which did not work at all really.
Interesting video !
SLT - single lens translucent
SLT was the next generation and a really interesting solution to the liveview PDAF problem.
I have an a35 SLT as well as a few Sony DSLRs (a350, a290, a200). Also a Canon Pellix, just for fun.
@@mipmipmipmipmip SLT had only one sensor, and were one step more towards mirrorless.
@@Badgerheist I've got a a300 that works fine, and sadly a dead a580.
The a580 seems to be very rare.
@@daniel635biturbo I've never encountered an a580, but I vaguely remember searching for an a590, I think. I was CCD hunting at the time. I've heard the a300 is a nice machine. I have yet to take any of my Sony CCD DSLRs out for a walk, but I did manage to try my hand at a Minolta Maxxum 7D, which was lovely. I have a schizophrenic a200 that exhibits some very strange and glitchy behavior that I'd love to troubleshoot someday. My first thought is one of the buttons is being permanently and falsely activated, but it could be a case of corrupted firmware. At least it was fairly inexpensive and I was able to repurpose its battery door for my a350.
Sorry to hear your a580 is dead. I wonder what its root issue is.
really cool to see how it sticks together. quite surprised how accurately they can match the images with the prism
Amazing video. Well done. I like old minolta cameras have a couple myself.
Heck yeah! Glad those diagrams came in clutch for you dude!
Dude, thanks! :D Helped me figure out where to go next after taking it apart.
What a great find.
Awesome video I love your channel! I bought this camera used ten years ago for cheap. I didn't shoot it much because it was a bit cumbersome and ate batteries pretty fast.
I can't seem to find the early files but my first images looked fine. Then I didn't use it for a few years and when I used it again it had exactly the same problem you have shown with the contaminated half image.
I admire your guts for taking it apart and finding out the problem! I don't have the skills nor the guts to take it apart but at least now I know I don't have to thanks to you! Hopefully the new one stays good enjoy it. This was very helpful thanks for doing this! 😍📸👍
Interesting! It must be some material that adheres the two sides and just goes bad under certain circumstances and time. Not sure why my other one is working fine after all these years then.
@@snappiness Thanks! It definitely sounds like some kind of delamination or separation of the elements. Interesting! Hope the unit you just got stays good. Keep us posted on your RD3000 adventures!
What an unusual camera that I’ve ever seen thanks for sharing 👍🏻
Because of your channel, I found Buyee. Gone the way of the original Olympus Four Thirds system without breaking the bank. Thanks mate !!
Ahhh... so now i've found my competition on Buyee for Four Thirds stuff. Question (because you said "Thanks mate") - are you in Oz or NZ?
@@luzr6613 Spent a number of years in Adelaide. Retired and shifted back to Malaysia . Force of habit I guess
First, i really admire your passion!
Second, glad you reviewed a Minolta. I am kinda hooked on Minolta vintage lenses. They are really fantastic and under the radar.
To see this in bits is nice, wonder if the photos could be somewhere.
That final part is a cube beamsplitter, which is cemented together, and it seems something has fouled at that cementing point. I can't say if the beamsplitter is specially treated, but you could try finding a 50/50 non polarised 'broadband' cube beamsplitter of roughly similar size to replace it with and start there - a visible spectrum two way splitter. It seems to be of a size you could readily get.
Yeah... that does look like adhesive going bad. I wonder if you could heat it and gently pull it apart?
@@nikytamayo I didn't think to mention unglueing just yet. And out of what's required, the temperatures are either oven or on the hob (to memory of some methods).
I'll have a look around. That would be good fun to find a replacement that at least would fit and then see how it works out back together.
I did think about heating it up but haven't tried it. But your thoughts that it's the adhesive between the two sides seems right based on what I can see in person (I know it's hard to see from the video exactly)
@@snappiness Well you have a working camera now, already - so go experiment and try to get the cube apart. (Can you modify it, do something interesting with it? Turn the second faulty camera into something different?) If that fails searching for replacement still is an option.
@@HumanAreYou they will need to look at camera repair forums for it. The temperatures, cleaning and alignment involved, then also buying the right ""glue"". A cube beamsplitter for a reasonably common purpose is a standard part, and affordable.
Chonk! Thanks again, what a bizarro beast.
Super bizarre camera. Love it.
Love your channel,@@snappiness…just got my second Sony DSC-F828….CCD heaven! Keep up the good work, much appreciated.
my first digital camera, half my lifetime ago was a minolta dimage 5, a 3.3megapixel "fixed lens SLR type" that i picked up slightly used on ebay (probably one of my first ebay purchases ever!) i used it for years and loved it even with its flaws (awful autofocus, for one thing)
minolta liked to try wierd things. this dual CCD thing was one; the dimage 5 and 7 used an equally odd "ferroelectric LCD" EVF that i have never heard of again - but apparently was a full color single pixel design instead of 3 pixel RGB array.
The glass looks like a lens balsam separation, maybe heating it in oven to separate it, clean and re glue?
fascinating camera
What an adventure 😊
That camera take beautiful colors.
Minolta was a great brand with great lenses. The famous Rokkor lenses. As good as The Nikkor or better. They were aggressive pushing autofocus system and I was looking forward to purchase their system when suddenly Canon came up with the USM technology and the rest is history. I've heard Sony has squired Minolta lens factory and now outing the name Sony on it. Great Minolta had its golden age. Too bad they went down...
Take the faulty one and frame it in bits. I have my old D610 on my wall.
I'm sure your wife and kids appreciate that. 😂
That's a really interesting idea! Do you have an example of how that turned out? In a shadow box?
@@snappiness its in a frame I made to suit. Quite deep with a glass front. It ended up quite big but I like it.
Rewatching your video shows that this looks like it would work out even deeper than mine, I have some of my favourite pictures taken by the camera as a background.
@@unbroken1010the joys of singledom
Modern bicycle shot on the vintage camera... brrrrr um sleepin'))))) 😅
The most elaborate speed booster ever.
Curious if light didn’t reach one of the sensors, would it mean that the camera only records half side of an image and the other goes black?
Curious the creative possibilities if one of the two sensors recorded a tweaked or alternate image to the other. Maybe like one is inverted or upside down. Maybe the output would be a double exposure like effect but in one shot
Genius!
You might be not that crazy but you definitely make crazy good videos !
Glad you like them!
I would ask the Camera repair wizards at Kamerastore in Tampere Finland if they can fix it. They're known for fixing a lot of different cameras.
That curved mirror with electronic bits could be a flash exposure sensor. Could be something else, too, of course, but that's my first guess.
I DO remember that camera. Course I've read about it. Back in the day. But I'm also a kind of a nerd 🤣
But note that wasn't the only vintage digital camera with crazy solutions.
Back in the day a collage of mine had the Canon EOS 1D (4mp), which had dual, stacked sensor.
After years of usage, one sensor (or proprietary processor) got bad, so that he had one half of the image completely fine,
while the other half was grainy as hell and with distorted colours, so that in the end the whole image
was totally unusable...
could you make an video on the nikon d200? its an amazing camera. like the d80 you made an video on but way cooler
I feel like the half dark half normal looks cool
Well, the not dark parts looked lovely.
And still the Minolta warm colours :-)
Hello,check with Minolta/Konica,I think now Sony to see if this was a product recall problem,if so they may replace the CCD’s for you,I worked at a recycling facility in UK,I got in contact with JVC after being given a small Camcorder,JVC sent me a prepaid box for postage,fixed it,then returned it by return mail,all because Sony made the ccd chip for JVC and it failed often,so it was repaired free of charge as the model was recalled at the time it was new if it failed,guy in the phone didn’t ask me anything about purchase,warranty etc,good result,glad you got this minolta fixed,P.S I still have the camcorder,I collect retro cameras too.
Interesting! I would assume all of this stuff is long gone by now, but maybe worth a shot!
@@snappiness You’d be surprised,the camcorder I got at the time was 17 years old mini dv,and they still had the ccd chip,I’m like you I love retro cameras,do you remember the Olympus is-3000???
So, this camera is is capable of increasing the image circle of a lens while maintaining the focal length? Am I understanding correctly?
4:46 there was a physical game called laser maze that has a similar concept haha completely forgot of its existence until this
I know what you're talking about!! Haha. The engineers were masters at it!
What happened to the c70?
A photo detective. Nice!
This is very cool. I had not heard of this camera before. I assume they did this to increase the pixel count because digital cameras in that era were fairly low. I'm curious what the pixel count turned out to be? I can't find any information in a quick search. Hard to believe with all the info we have online these days.
Each sensor was 1.5mp, but after a bit of a crop the final image was 2.7mp
That littlr mirror you found might be for the autofocus, but I dont know. Since you already disassembled the camera you could try to heat the block up and see if you can make it come apart
That might do it
Amazingly complex camera. What exactly was/is the problem with the tiny glass box?
The beamsplitter was made from two prisms that are bonded together with optical cement. It seems that the joint has failed, and some contamination has gotten between the two surfaces.
@@lihtan Thank you.
Could anyone tell me more about Buyee? Im seeing insane prices, but im not to sure if i trust it
It would be cool to get an optical splitter like that and put two modern sensors together
I see your Buyee listing looking over the Epson R-D1... Is this a cheeky little spoiler you snuck for us?
wink wink
Right in the center of the frame there's like a smudging line effect where the two sensors meet
noticed that too, like if two pictures are not aligned
Dude! That repair was so smooth! You are good at what you do
Separate the prism and reglue it with norland lens adhesive, would be interesting if you could fix it that way.
Never give up!
Never surrender!
😂. You must be a central banker. Go gi Joe!!!
I hope a Minolta tech finds this video and can help you.
My only suggestion is to gently heat the fouled glass piece. Maybe the gunk will move, burn off, or dissipate.
Might be worth a try
If it’s moisture, you can put it in a dry “hot box” to possibly pull it out. Lmk
I'm sure a glass maker could make a new prism for you for the first camera, maybe even a glass artist would be able to do it.
did you tried Sigma ? old Sigma with 1st version of X3 Foveon sensor ? ! its SO RARE vintage amasing sensor. you should try Sigma DP1 DP1s or DP1x. or DP2 .. or SD10 SD14 SD15. these are all APS-C almost size Foveon x3 sensor with AMASING analog look - indeed sensor works like a normal film.
I still miss Minolta in the market now. A beautiful manufacturer. Very innovative in their work. Loss.
Hello retro colleague, I have the same problem with my rd3000, I have all the lenses and all the accessories, everything except the camera in their original packaging 😁 I hope you find a solution to clean the lens 😉 Kind regards from Austria
Cool! Nice to meet another rd3000 owner. There can't be that many of us out there :)
wow
Dude this vid just popped up for me. Not a photo guy, don’t know jack about this stuff. BUT! I do love both your way of presenting the topic and stuff like this. I’m a sub now!
Cool! I love that about YT. Love seeing the random stuff other people are into. Thanks for stopping by :)
You can buy them... they're split prisms
It sounds as if they had a large amount of lenses laying around somewhere and thought it would be a good idea to design a camera for it.
lol, I would love to know all the reasons for it.
Really neat camera. Call me a pesimist but unless you took a video of the process and cataloged all the parts... there was no way that camera was going back together 😅😂 I saw that ile of different sized screws.
I once repaired a EOS 1. Took sooo many photos and cataloged all the parts and got it working again but 0/10 would not recommend lol
@@SiggyPony I can confirm- repairing cameras is seriously difficult
Well, now you have some spare parts for the working one ;)
That was my thought!
I really envy you the no import tax from Japan and i understand now what our Lord had against customs officers...after I've paid around 350 just on import taxes for my Pentax 150-450 telephoto
Oh no :( Yeah, that is a big slam.
@@snappiness they say that the lens will make me forget the hole it left in my wallet...and im quite happy with it (tho its my first telephoto and i picked up photography a little over a month ago so what do i know)
The upside is you know more about how it goes together and a spare parts kit. Enjoy.
An ultrasonic cleaner might be able to penetrate and clean up the gunk inbetween the prisims.
Careful, you might find the meaning of life in all the magnifyers. 😂
I wonder if someone pointed it at the sun for too long and scorched the interior surface.
Try a UV light treatment ?
why do dslr/slr cameras brings more life to pictures then these phone cameras. I always wonder that!!
awesome. I already freaked out when I changed the CF card reader lid from my E300 :D :D
Haha! Yeah, I've done some repairs with success, but none that went this deep into a camera... I think it can come back together and work, if I can figure out maybe a spare for this mirror box...
2:58 one piece
That is a dangerous website...for my wallet.
Why Peter Parker (Tom Holland) here?
You were not photographed with a digital camera in the 90s. And certainly not at that quality. The Minolta RD-3000 was very expensive and from 1999.
bru check the site
Wait.. 2 sensors and so it can shoot infrared and colour? Potentially this will be able to shoot the closest to life aerochrome..
buy another broken camera and fix the first one. Keep the third one around for parts
Cool. looking one, but very poor IQ. I have the APS film camera with the same flash and kit zoom lens, which produces better image. 😆
Looks...............vintage 😂
You should use gloves to manipulate the lenses.
isnt _magnifier_ just a lens? why do you keep calling that particular lens a magnifier?
What a shame :d
is it just me oor does it look like he just came out of the shower before making this video?
Can confirm. I had a short window where the kids were out of the house, and the road work outside my window had taken a pause and just went for it xD