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more like crawl slowly behind it.

@@thewideduck5708 slowly walked behind Deus Ex?

@@Singlemethod4217 yea. I just think Deus Ex generally just... had a better story and explored it's themes more deeply

​@thewideduck5708 No it didn't lol. I've played all the Deus Ex games, original 2000 game included and I think Cyberpunk is much better in terms of story and themes.

@@cynicalmemester1694 Then I have not a single idea as to *why*, because even just considering the dialogue alone, Deus Ex seems to be the series more interested in making a statement. I'm not sure how you top a series literally founded on the principle of "our institutions are lying to us through the mass media and manufactured consent".

Actual Cyberpunk 2077: There is no point in fighting the system, you either leave or try to rock the world and burn out like a match, either way, you will be forgotten.

@@frankenwaifu8092 There is no point in fighting the system? What a rotten way to die!

@@thewideduck5708 Rotten? Yup. That's the tragedy that makes Night City beautiful. It's a privatized urban hellscape that is rigged against everyone, even those is the upper echelons of society. Fighting against it is a wasted effort, just look at Johnny Silverhand. Silverhand used music and rebellion to expose the corruption of the megacorporations, yet 53 years after his death, he has fallen to irrelevance. Night City is the biggest poker table of them all and the house always wins. The only way you lose less in this game is to fold and leave the table with what chips you still have. This is why I don't think Cyberpunk is even about anti-establishment punks rockers. Most of these types of people either quit while they are still alive, become corpo shills, or end up in a shallow grave. Cyberpunk 2077 is imo, more about a society that is so fundamentally corrupt that there is nothing that can fix it short of nuking it off the map.

@@frankenwaifu8092 You're missing my point. This nihilist, "aw... nothing can change the system, all we can do is burn it all down..." is the sort of thinking all the corrupt institutions use to maintain said control. They WANT people to think that change is impossible, that everything is irreversibly and irredeemably broken. Silverhand is a great example of that. For all his rebellion, all his exposing the corruption, he's become either irrelevant, or worse, co-opted by the very system that he criticized. That's my issue with Cyberpunk. It absolutely *rejects* the possibility of true rebellion, real institutional change. "It's more about a society that is so fundamentally corrupt that there is nothing that can fix it short of nuking it off the map". I agree, which makes it all the more disappointing that the game doesn't let you. It's kind of an unhelpful message to say "fuck the system!" and then say "aw but nothing we do can change it, even revolution won't work!" Because like, what else are people gonna do, then? The game's story is still entertaining at times, but as a social critique, it falls a bit short because it can't deliver a solution. In a way, the game internalizes the city's own ethos: "There's no way out but to get ahead yourself."

​@@frankenwaifu8092lame

Just because cyberpunk has a lot of lore doesn’t mean the lore is A) good or B) realistic Cyberpunk is supposed to be a what if sci fi future given the direction we’re headed. With Deus ex a lot of themes presented are realistic: the state of augmented people, the social and political tensions and economic issues that permeate in the present day Cyberpunk in contrast has a wildly unrealistic story with dated concepts, bad writing, and a shallow understanding of Cyberpunk. Even the man himself William Gibson viewed cyberpunk more as a GTA-like clone with some RPG elements rather than a true vision of a cyberpunk dystopia. Deus Ex is quality. Cyberjunk is quantity.

I think their focused in diferent things with some themes in comon like the humanity thing or the freedome, but their diferent and something the meme says is right, the cyberpunk 2077 the ambientation, story, narrative and lore are more Classic from the cyberpunk theme and deus ex is more diferent from the tipical cyberpunk stories.

​@@Cybereagle4122bro thinks cyberpunk 2077 is some kind of masterpiece lol. I can list 10 cyberpunk games that are way better than cp2077

Shadowrun Returns is better than 2077.

@@Cybereagle4122 Hey, the game itself says it best, they're all about "style over substance." No idea how people can think of a world like that as "well written".

they need everything said directly to them like a 5 year old to understand the narrative. Hence why they don't like cyberpunk

The point people are making are between the Cyberpunk 2077 videogame and the Deus Ex videogames, so, even tho I liked Cybverpunk 2077 and played it from start to finish, it really doesn't go down that deep like Deus Ex does. I'm pretty sure Cyberpunk lore outside of the game is pretty good, but Cyberpunk's videogame story is about V and Johnny Silverhand themselves, and in Deus Ex it's mostly about the bigger picture and not the MC themselves.

To be fair, Pondsmith always seemed to be more about the *aesthetic* of cyberpunk than the themes of it. Which makes sense, in tabletop games, the Game Master runs the plot, so its up to them what they want to focus on, and whether to go systems/mechanics or RP focus. Night City is defined by its looks and presentation, most stuff in the game is. The main ethos is "style over substance" for a reason. Deus Ex, I'd argue, is just the opposite. The games look... janky to say the least, and the dialogue sounds kinda clunky, but in terms of its content? It's probably top 5 in "philosophical games".

It's downtuned

No