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@@The_Real_SmolOrTem shit I didn't even think of that but there are a lot more reasons why this video is bad

Fr

"Except for when they don't"

ye but yk goku can just destroy the whole fucking universe on his ssb form and also can move at 33x of speed of light on his fucking base form

Yes

'Invisible Warframe' to describe a Stand is amazing

all of them one tap bleach..

spoken like someone thats only seen season 1

@@pickledeluxe4636 no need, they all foders and their haxs are awful, the verse is d4c/star platinum victim.

yeah goku can only move at speed of lights 33x on his base form and can multiply that number with 50x on his weakest form thats crazy

​@@boda-d4fI'm sick and tired of these damn bleach fans The Wonder of You from Jojo's Bizarre solos all the bleach it's coming from a bleach fan I'm not going to be biased I'm not going to be lying to you guys shut this debate up Ichigo does not solo JoJo yeah wonder of you destroys him

No no no no no my sweet summer child don't you know all of these what ifs don't factor in the character ever it's only ever spreadsheets and data points saying X is MFTL because a random character made a statement that the attack is light based even if it is clear the author never meant for them to be that fast

​@@hypernova4725like the world? It is as fast as something which was as fast as something faster than sun rays

Actually goku does blitz normal humans and peoples he’s stronger than like all the time. He wouldn’t punch them through the heart or anything but that’s actually canonically and anime-ically a go-to move. Either the speed blitz or appear behind the shoulder. Also while the fans are wrong in their phrasing (or ur understanding), they are right to be confident in goku’a ability. He may fight brutally like vegeta or Frieza or Omni man, but he fights them all the time so he’s totally comfortable in a death match and would be prepared for a vicious and intense battle. If you remember he broke Nappas back and paralyzed him.

@@hypernova4725yo I totally agree with you. That’s actually one of my biggest grievances. The authors and/or the fans don’t know science like that, but all these data sheets contingent purely on pseudo science and extrapolation make fictional fan communities just insufferable! Like bruh I remember someone said part 2 Jonathan Joestar was FTL b/c they dodged the red beam from the Aja ruby, even though it was clearly more an Adrian Veidt anticipation/just also good reflexes. Or people say pt 3 Jotaro is MFTL bc Polnareff stopped that light speed dude, even though it was explicitly stated that he was faster than Polnareff by a lot, and his plan relied on cutting the dude off midway bc he could only travel in straight lines. But instead of just thinking they used 10th grade physics many of them probably got Bs at best on.

@@Scorpiongod934 Didn't see this since you didn't @, but when I say blitz a human, I mean he isn't going to turn them into instant paste. There are a ridiculously large amount of hax abilities that could take advantage of goku's kinder nature and restraint if he holds back for only for a few seconds vs someone like Freiza who'd be happy to instantly make someone a smear on the floor, assuming he isn't gloating. There is also the fact that goku is known to test those he fights for fun by starting slow fairly often. I just personally don't find it interesting to say something like "Goku would win if he instant killed them FTL", since he's never going to do something like that without an extremely good reason as I said.

Oh shiver me timbers😰

@@Manilovegambling445*laughs and forces it inside you*

finally after all these years a comment that doesn't ignores gokus personally out right 😂 . honestly i just referred to vs battle goku as kakkarot the one that doesn't think of anything but the fight but actual goku would lose or at the very least get hurt in alot of battles because bro refuses to keep his gaurd up and likes to give people prep time

⁠​⁠@@pickledeluxe4636goku doesn’t refuse to keep his guard up. That was only mentioned one time in a retcon over 30 years after the characters inception. It’s not canonically consistent nor substantiated at any other point in the series. He also doesn’t like giving ppl prep time. He only did that with Cell fr. Frieza sure but he knew he was going to win so it honestly didn’t matter. Even still, in most arcs he goes all out and fights with intensity comparable to bloodthirsty space n*zis. Ppl always say Goku isn’t blood thirsty enough and therefore that is a weakness, but that ignores the fact that he stood up to and impressed Frieza Vegeta King Piccolo, etc. Really only his final battles get drawn out, and even then he tries to end them quickly if possible. Don’t you remember he humiliated, blitzed, then paralyzed Nappa? Or did you forget he tried to send Vegeta into space then explode him with the spirit bomb asap so he didn’t blow up the planet? I can see why you would say that about cell, but he didn’t leave his guard down and again he knew the Z fighters would win. Prep time considered, he’s not even at fault for Perfect Cell anyway. If anything he got the z fighters extra prep time showing his strategy and intellect. Frieza he tried to end asap. Sure he allowed Frieza to power up, but that was b/c he was rightfully confident in his own power. In fact, that’s actually the point of him doing that then. The super saiyan gave him hubris and showed him and us viewers the flaws of the transformation that needed to be worked on. So, he’s like not letting his guard down or allowing prep, he just knows he’s good. If the situation is dire, he doesn’t give enemies the chance to win and fights intensely to put them down. If anything, people are misconstruing gokus recognition of his own flaws and that idiotic, only-once-relevant retcon to make it seem as if he leaves himself vulnerable to defeat and doesn’t seize opportunities or victory. Also like every fictional character has been caught off guard or even kidnapped at least once (usually more often than Goku, so why is their glaring flaw only recognized for Goku? B/c once again they made one retcon in the age of the internet 30 years into the shows history before even becoming canonized and that’s all anyone remembers instead of watching or reading the source material!!)

no shit if goku just fucking blows up the entire universe on his ssb form what they can do?

Not Goku that's for sure

Goku can, literally can

@calmtea2819 If Goku nearly destroyed the universe with a few clashes from his fist (a universe that contains the entirety of its own afterlife in a separate realm), and absorbed that into his base form, imagine how much stronger he'd be in UI. Even if you lowball this feat by arguing that Goku isn't that strong in his base, and take into account it would've taken a few strikes to blow up this universe, going SSB Kaioken 20× would still give him power to blow up 100 universes.

And also could koichu use echo to create an non existing rivk to trow at wou or bullets or something

No. Remember in the first fight between Josuke and Okuyasu? He literally got hit by a flower pot due to his own ability. This will probably happen to him again but apply massive damage.

Now onto the next stand, Wonder of u vs sheer heart attack. Now if it’s without Kira pursuing and then throwing out a sheer heart attack to track Wonder of u or Toru, then I have a few arguments on this because if it is Kira pursuing and then throwing out sheer heart attack, then he’s getting immediately killed by calamity because of his karma, but if it isn’t and it’s just sheer heart attack without Kira knowledge of Wonder of u or Toru's existence, well, here’s my take on this if it’s just Wonder of u fighting against a sheer heart attack. Well, let me say this sheer heart attack detects heat and goes after it right, but in this case I don’t think Wonder of u has any heat signature for sheer heart attack to look for. Besides, we really only seen sheer heart attack attacks the users and not their stands, so Wonder of u is safe, but even if you personally believe Wonder of u does have a heat signature, Sheer heart attack will go after him, then I see ways where Wonder of u could outsmart it or cause a calamity, but you’re going to ask, but calamity won’t work against this automatic pursuit stand, which I would say is true, but you gotta remember one of Wonder of u abilities is touching something He’s touched and infusing it with calamity energy, so let's just say a sheer heart attack touches something Wonder of u touched that was infused with calamity energy. So a calamity will happen, but how? It could cost a fire so it will get distracted from targeting Wonder of u or it could get damaged by a calamity, and you got to remember one thing a calamity has is durability negation attacks, unlike star platinum, which does not have durability negation attacks and only attacks with his punches, so I personally believe a calamity will do more damage because of its durability negation attacks and just because it came from Kira, who is a very evil person, the calamity should be much stronger. Now onto the explosion if sheer heart attack managed to explode on Wonder of u. I say Wonder of u is fast enough to dodge it because of his subsonic movement speed, or Wonder of u can phase through walls avoiding the explosion, and let’s not forget the rock insects. Wonder of u could use it as a distraction to get away now. Remember, this is just Wonder of u and not Toru. Now imagine Wonder of u standing beside Toru, trying to protect him. Everything I said would apply here so Toru could escape while Wonder of u distracts sheer heart attack with its calamity or rock insects or simply picking up sheer heart attack and not letting it get close to Toru if a person believes Wonder of u don’t have a heat signature for sheer heart attack to detect and explode now if it’s just Toru himself. I have only one argument for his defense: Toru could just turn himself to rock and not show any heat signature because, remember, he’s a rock human after all, and it’s been stated that when rock humans turn themselves into complete rock, their body heat disappears, and Toru has shown to turn his hand to complete rock on command, so the question is if he wanted to, he could also commend his entire body to turn into rock even though we haven’t seen it. It’s a high possibility that he could, but let’s just say Toru can. Even if a sheer heart attack explodes on his now rock human form, how much damage would it realistically do to him? Sure, it exploded on regular humans and did damage upon them and perhaps some walls and windows, but none of them were rock hard solid, so that’s a possibility for Toru to not get detected by sheer heart attack or get that much damage inflicted upon him, but remember this is only with Toru. Just imagine Wonder of u also helping him out, then I really don’t believe sheer heart attack would do much. Now one final thing I have to address. I just remember something. Remember Kei Nijimura with born this way? Remember her stand was an automatic pursuit type stand the same just like sheer heart attack? I wonder what happened to her. Oh yes, burn this way attacks Wonder of u, and she gets killed. And I just need to remind you that Kei Nijimura didn't know of Wonder of u existence. All she’s been told was to go to where Josuke's location was and pass him the phone, and she was also told that she will be targeted by the flow of calamity and there will be an enemy there. Kei Nijimura was aware of it, of course, but she never knew Wonder of u existence; heck, she never even got a good look at him before dying by calamity, so I could argue that even if calamity doesn’t target an automatic pursuit stand, it will target it’s user instead, even if the user never knows what Wonder of u looks like. So just imagine if Kira decides to use sheer heart attack to attack Wonder of u or Toru without knowing what they look like, but all he knows is that they are an enemy, then calamity will target him instead of sheer heart attack. And in what scenario would sheer heart attack just be roaming around and attacking random strangers? There is a greater likelihood that Kira only sent out his sheer heart attack to kill his victims. If Kira ever decides to target Wonder of u or Toru even without knowing their existence or what they look like, a calamity will still target Kira, killing him, so in conclusion, even if Kira doesn’t know who they are but still sends out his sheer heart attack to attack them, then it’s goodbye to him. He got killed by a calamity without even knowing how or why. That is all. I wonder what you think about my take. 4:56

Now onto the next stand, Wonder of u vs Highway to Hell. Now I can only see 3 outcomes for Wonder of u and Toru, and that’s outlasting thunder McQueen because remember, Toru isn’t a regular human; he’s a rock human, and rock humans are known to survive fatal injuries, so let’s go for the first reason: if a person believes Toru can turn himself into completely rock, and this is a if; if thunder McQueen electrifies himself, then in theory, would it work on Toru if he’s in full rock form? I say it’s a toss up. The same could be said for any other attack he does to himself: would it affect Toru in his rock form or would it just slightly lower the damage infected upon him, but that’s just one possibility if you choose to believe Toru can turn himself to rock completely and in that way Toru can outlast Thunder McQueen. Now that just one outcome, another outcome is just Toru taking the damage inflated upon him like electricity drowning, and self inflicted wounds. Remember, Toru got a hole blown in his head, throat, and torso, and he still keeps moving forward in the same way as he was deteriorating to dust, but was still conscious enough to think and talk, so I see a lot of endurance feats for Toru, and if thunder McQueen subbumbs to his injuries before Toru can, then it’s all good. Let’s just hope Toru has enough time to find and grab a rokakaka fruit to heal his injuries. This is another outcome, but this is if you believe if thunder McQueen succumbs to his wounds and the same outcome will not be inflicted upon Toru, but if you personally believe if thunder McQueen succumbs to his wounds and the same outcome would happen to Toru, then I say it’s a far game that could happen, so onto the last outcome and the most likely outcome to me and it’s calamity will find a way to remove thunder McQueen's stand disc. Let’s see if I remember right: Ermes Costello, while being electrified, managed to make two heads of thunder McQueen and make them mush together, either potentially killing him or getting him knocked out, which in turn his stand disc came out of his head now. I see two ways for this: if Ermes murdered thunder McQueen before the electricity killed her, that means it’s a possibility that calamity could kill thunder McQueen before Toru dies of some inflicted wound. Or Ermes knocks out thunder McQueen, and his stand disc comes out, killing him. Remember, without a stand disc and a memory disc, the person dies, by the way, so calamity could find a way to knock out thunder McQueen, and in return, his stand disc comes out, killing him, so Toru is safe. That’s how I see it. I think that is all. I wonder what you think about my take. 7:50

Now onto the next stand, which will be the final one. Wonder of u vs tusk. Okay, this is the one where I may have some problems with your choice of words, but before that, I need to mention that Johnny can’t use Tusk Act 4 unless he’s on the horse, and calamity could take advantage of that. Now this is where I have a problem with your choice of words. You’re saying Johnny does not attempt to harm as he fires an infinite rotation at Wonder of u, and you also said he doesn’t do it with hate or aggression. I don’t know about that for a couple of reasons. I’m pretty sure even if you don’t have harmful attention, Johnny is still shooting off an infinite rotation at Wonder of u, which will put Wonder of u existence at risk, and so calamity will take action no matter your attention because ultimately Johnny is still shooting out something that will 100% harm Wonder of u, and what makes you think calamity won’t detect infinite rotation as a threat and will do everything in its power to stop it? and even Wonder of u will know it’s a threat if it touches him, so calamity would 100% work upon it because infinite rotation is not like Go Beyond; infinite rotation still applies by the laws of logic. Unlike Go Beyond, the most likely is that calamity will manifest and kill Johnny horse, effectively making him not be able to use Tusk Act 4 at all or attack Johnny before he even has a chance to shoot out an infinite rotation because he’s a threat. And besides, Johnny having infinite rotation does not mean he no longer has a malice attempt when he starts using it because there are two occasions where Johnny is out to kill someone, and that’s Funny Valentine and Diego Brando, and I’m pretty sure his attention is to harm Diego Brando in the whole battle against him. I don’t really get what you’re saying when you say Johnny using his infinite rotation no longer has the intention to harm, but that’s not what has been shown within the manga. He has shown the intention to kill twice, so what makes this any different? If he goes up against Wonder of u, Johnny sees there is a threat, then he has the intention to immediately shoot his infinite rotation to kill his opponent, which in this case is Wonder of u, so calamity will manifest, but let’s just say Johnny gets a chance to shoot off his infinite rotation towards Wonder of u. You forgot to mention that there is another way to stop infinite rotation. And that’s to let the infinite rotation hit a life form, so let’s say a calamity manifests in a way that a life form somehow got in the way of the infinite rotation a human perhaps and so the infinite rotation hits the life form, and that be it. It happened twice within the manga: first it was Funny Valentine, and second it was Johnny himself, so there is a way to make sure to not let the infinite rotation hit Wonder of u. and calamity will take advantage of that, and I’m pretty sure Wonder of u is smart enough to figure out a way around it and perhaps use a human or a different species to block infinite rotation. Now you gotta make sure where this battle takes place would it take place within the TG university hospital where there’s a lot of people Wonder of u can use to its advantage or the bridge where Johnny got hit by his own infinite rotation? And a guy on a horse could just pass by and can be used as a calamity to get in the way of the infinite rotation or that one location where Johnny battles against Funny Valentine because even in that location I can see a wild animal just comes out of nowhere and takes the hit of the infinite rotation or Wonder of u takes out his rock insects and see if they can block the infinite rotation with their own bodies. Besides, I believe Wonder of u is fast enough to react to infinite rotation because of his subsonic or supersonic reaction speed, and I say if the speed of the infinite rotation is under subsonic speed, then there’s a high possible chance Wonder of u would just dodge it with his subsonic movement speed, and if he’s clever, he could just run up to Johnny and use him to block the infinite rotation wouldn't that be funny? But if not, and the speed of the infinite rotation is that of a bullet. Which is subsonic speed or supersonic, then Wonder of u are still fast enough to react to it and could come up with a plan to counter it or a calamity will get in the way. I believe that is all I have to say on this matter. Thanks for reading it all. I hope I get your opinion on my take. 10:32

Also because he never says it Toru has shown feats of controlling WOU to do things.

Vanila ice still needs to see so the moment he leaves to search for tooru he would die from a calamity the heavens door wouldnt work because rohan would have to write it on someone with the intent of pursuing tooru so he would get a calamity before he could do it and the civil war would happen the same as tooru because the user have an intent of pursuing him before he could talk with tooru something would happen and i dont even think he feels any remorse dragon dream just points the lucky spot he doesnt create any luck he prob wouldnt find any lucky spot with wou since it can manipulate the calamity bohemian rhapsody calamity would target the user even if he manages to find an character that is immune to it or just delete the concept before he could use his stand he would die because calamity works the moment you think of pursuing tooru or WoU the only way for chariot requiem to turn wou against toru is if he use his stand to get the arrow if he dont care about it nothing will happen tbh and tooru prob would resolve the puzzle

@@etihw4707 You make some good points. I think I can confidently take Civil War and Bohemian Rhapsody out of consideration given what you have said. And while Chariot Requiem would theoretically be able to win, the chances of that altercation even happening are cosmically low. The other three still have a chance to win, but the odds would be stacked against them. If Cream can consume Toru/WoU on the first attempt like he did with Avdol, then I think Cream could win. However, unless the attack goes flawlessly, Ice is likely to die after leaving. Dragon's Dream would be harder to win with, but assuming that WoU doesn't take Feng Shui into account whenever it wanders, one could wait to pursue WoU until they get in an unlucky spot. What happens from there is still a bit open ended. And while I think Heaven's Door has the potential to take WoU down, I will admit that even if the attack is successful, Rohan would probably also die. The difficulty about trying to talk about WoU's match-ups lies not only in WoU's overwhelming power, but also in the fact that the only way it was beaten in the manga requires an attack that doesn't exist because the soap lines are too thin(?). I will never understand how Go Beyond works. Dragon's Dream is easier for me to understand.

@@namelessmedia2847 go beyond is just an attack from another dimension thats why wou cant do much since its not in his dimension and dragon dream points where luck is and since the stand is neutrall he would say to feng ''nah bro you at your own with that one'' since wou can manipulate calamity so there wont be any lucky spot

@@namelessmedia2847 and cream still needs to know where toru is in the first place so if he think to kill him he wouldnt be able to attack tooru first he would die before he can use his stand ability

@@etihw4707 Yeah. That is a result I can see happening. The problem with trying to beat this damn thing is that it is damn near impossible. While I do think that some stands can achieve a pyrrhic victory under their own power, at this point, taking everything you said into account as well, Cream is the only one on that original list with a shot. And only ONE shot at that. I hope this doesn't seem confrontational, as I'm actually somewhat enjoying this discussion. Thank you for your insight :)

Ayp?