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Don't be fooled by the prequel to Maria, Friedrich! It looks like it has a manly man on the cover, but in reality it is 3x the woke! It has 3 women in it instead of 1!

What a wasted opportunity! What would I do with a medal? Pin it on a tail of a donkey? They should have included an '88 or an MG42.

weirdly I pulled out this game and played it solitaire around the time you recorded this, but I have only just seen the video. I thought the topic and gameplay were really interesting, but I found it was a little repetitive and perhaps not the most interesting situation to game with this approach. I was stumbling through a learning however so would like to give it another try opposed. Agree Vae Victis is a great magazine (it actually reviews wargames!) I just wish I could read French. Fred will we not be seeing you at Vanguard anymore?

I thought when using a tactical move you couldnt occupy and empty enemy space.

Tiresome. How many did the Communists murder? They are still around. Nazis are irrelevant

Un débat très intéressant. Merci d'avoir proposé cette vidéo. J'ai vraiment apprécié le moment passé à vous écouter.

I think the larger picture is missed here. War itself even if conducted according to the rules is a horrible thing. It involves killing pure and simple. So it's always going to be what you as a player are willing to play. The evil British colonialists? The human sacrificing Aztecs? Pirates who murder and rape for profit and fun? Chinese emperors who let hundreds of thousands of peasants to die to build a wall? Huns? And on and on. I think like ugly free speech has a value, simulating war and the increased historical knowledge that results does have a value. Cultural norms change through times, and today's heroes are tomorrow's villains. History is an argument. But a fascinating topic to be sure

Volko is spot on. I appreciate his balanced perspective and i appreciate the conversation. Of course the myth has been propagated over time but I think Volko's caution on intent and scope of game design should be considered first and foremost before going down the rabbit hole of ethics. You will always have highly varied opinions simply due to peoples personal experiences, cultural experiences, beliefs etc. Although all agree on the terrible things the german army did, not everyone will have the same opinion how much or how little does it play a part in a wargame they are playing. It can be a very nuanced opinion.

Storm in a tea cup. They removed the offending design, why all the hand wringing. Should WWI iron Cross be treated the same? Afterall, Kaiser's army were the bad guys too.

Interesting discussion! As someone who never played real wargames, but rather tabletop games (which are on a tactical to semi operational level), there is a similar discussion with historical tabletops and Nazi representation. Volko said that developers are bound to fail with regards to how to properly represent Nazis in wargames without causing irritation. Well, there are two aspects, aesthetics and gameplay. I believe, aesthetics is far less important. I don't need Swastikas and SS runes to recognize Nazis. However, I do need them to act according to their ideology if I want to represent them accurately in a wargame. With all intents and purposes. This is what matters in the end. How it can be done and how to motivate players to play a faction that intends to eradicate specific groups of people systematically is a different story, but whether Swastikas are shown on unifroms or not really is not even a secondary issue (and in case of Germany, it is questionable because legally speaking you tread on dangerous ground as Jan pointed out because the Swastika isn't needed to mark units as Nazis and it doesn't serve educational purposes so one has to ask about the motivations on why they are shown, so that might be discussed in court).

En un juego sobre la Campaña de España (Peninsular War), ¿sería ético regalar una imitación de una medalla francesa? ¿Es ético ser admirador del ejercito francés de Napoleon, autor de miles de asesinatos en España, la destruccion de edificios históricos, el saqueo de iglesias y conventos, y el robo de miles de obras de arte? Me resulta paradójico que un francés debata sobre si es etico sentir interés militar e histórico por el ejército alemán, cuando ellos hicieron lo mismo un siglo antes, y muestran una admiración abierta por ese periodo histórico de su país. Con los valores éticos actuales, el Arco del triunfo y Los Inválidos deberían ser destruidos. Es curioso que no exista en Wikipedia un artículo en francés sobre el "Saqueo francés de España". Solo disponible en español e inglés: es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expolio_napole%C3%B3nico_en_Espa%C3%B1a

The main issue with this game is the scope: An hex & counter wargame is about 90% (give or take) "frontline activity", reduced to a mere 10km width of decision space about what you can do, with the rest being around political or the economic considerations using tracks. You represent a dude on the battlefield who cares about what happens 5km around you and your mates. So you learn about the frontline operations, terrain, etc. If you make a game about the political side, then you have to introduce everything that was relevant, everything. Gestapo, the final solution, concentration camps, in-fighting, political agendas. Everything that was deeply relevant for historical purposes. Can I play this with my 14 year old kid? Well I can, but he won't get the correct idea of who these people where, what happened and what they were part of. Maybe we can play and watch Schindler's List in the background, so my kid gets the full picture. Or maybe we can just watch the movie together first and the I can ask him if he wants to play later.

Congratulations Fred, a very interesting conversation about a topic we prefer to ignore, not only because of what Volko says about focusing on one aspect of strictly military simulation, but because those other aspects can make our hobby uncomfortable. Putting this uncomfortable reality on the table is necessary if we want to be honest with ourselves. Thanks to you, and to all the panelists. A hug.

Volko Ruhnke 100%!

What a well planned out panel. Amazing work getting this together Fred. ❤️

Very interesting panel! Encourages me to take my distance to the game

A very interesting discussion for sure.

Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past," mean in George Orwell's 1984?

I appreciated catching up with this discussion - interesting and provocative as always.

This was fantastic! Might be one of your best panel discussions yet Fred. Bravo!

Do you like the iron cross they give you? Great! Didn’t like the iron cross? Throw it away. It's easy for me. The mindjobs that arise in these matters will never cease to amaze me. A game is a game, if I'm playing for the South in a game about the American Civil War, I'm doing my best to win and I enjoy the game. Does that mean I love killing and enslaving black people? Obviously not. If I win playing with that side, will it change anything in history that has already happened, or will someone somewhere on the globe enslave a black person because of my victory with the South? Of course not. All we do in wargames is move cardboard counters on a cardboard or paper map, what we enjoy is the intellectual challenge of solving the problems thrown at us by our opponents and trying to create problems for him in as imaginative ways as possible. I am not criticising people who take offence, feeling offended is a very personal and subjective feeling and everyone should know why certain images, objects or words are offensive to them. My criticism is more oriented to this kind of pointless controversies. Do you like the game and its theme? You buy it. Didn’t like it? You don't buy it. It's another matter if you think that either the publisher or the game is making some kind of apology or proselytising about Nazism, if that were the case, then I would understand the fuss, but frankly, if someone thinks that way, the problem is in that person´s mind not in the game.

Excellent. The debate should be the same as the debate about books and film. Bad parts of history must be able to be experienced from all sides including the sides we do not like. At least it we want these media to help us examine the human condition. How about a game about being an effective torturer? Or a serial killer? I think they should not be off the table and certainly not under the table.

Nice discussion. I'm not sure if I will play this game, but that medal was in poor taste, and definitely soured me.

This was really cool. I have never before had the opportunity to see Brian before and hear him talk about games before. Looking forward to now playing Guerilla Checkers.

Hello Fred, what do you think of the box of the Squad Leader Gamette Cross of Iron? Is it Ethical?

Nice list! For the players of Ticket to Ride, I would also include another Days of Wonder game which they might enjoy - Memoir '44.

I am so looking forward to this game! thanks.

I can confirm, I tricked myself with Fall of Rome, then moved to Undaunted

A "Radical Software Group" that only develops for iOS. Good joke tbh

David is apparently usually awake at this time of the day every day designing games before work.

After mainstreaming the concept of hex-and-counter, David should use his powers for good and make paper maps mainstream. Then the box wouldn't be so heavy.

Great stream guys, thanks for the multifaceted discussion.

I literally just listened to this while getting a root canal. For the record the two of you are at least one notch above a root canal and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Couldn’t watch, only listened but I now have the gist of this and I’m now reading the rules. Well done. Sebastian I would love to share notes on this and how it could be used with War in the China Sea also from CNA.

0:27 where can I get that token organizer or something similar?

i thought your buddy stuart did,nt like acw games,after he ripped in magnificent style.

Why was the data incomplete from 2018 onwards? What do you mean by qualitative board games? 8:00

Those Hell's Gate chits look gorgeous.

The worst thing about the term "wargame" is the degree to which Warhammer has squatted over the term. If you search for "wargame" especially looking for a community, you'll just find clubs and articles about Warhammer.

The sound of drums game is special to me it’s dedicated to me

Fred great stuff brother. Great series of games

What do you think of Burning Banners as an introductory war game, Fred? It looks quite fun, and not too heavy, with an accessible theme.

I haven’t played the big TS yet, but have really enjoyed my plays of Red Sea. Makes me think I of backing the new special edition TS p500

Congratulations, this is fantastic game

Have you played Hand of Doom, Fred? It’s been sealed on my shelf for years but I’ve never ,amazed to get it to the table.

I am hoping you will interview some of the finalists of this year's round also, just announced, because this was great.

Wrong video description...? This is The King is Dead.

You should add a link to marks channel :)

I have ordered marks book

So glad you did this will be in touch soon

The Tullahoma campaign was in my opinion one of the most impressive campaigns of maneuver in the war. It's cool that the game locations allow you to potentially recreate that. Fred was able to see the danger just from studying the map.