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Lesele, I failed to take away anything from your narration. You have not addressed the main argument, that's difference between Shia and Sunni tradition of Islam. Let me begin with the observation that there is no Shia Islam and Sunni Islam. Seeds of the two main sects in Islam were sown during Prophet's life itself. I would suggest you to have a good look at history of Islam before you embark on this assigned topic which demands high scholarly and dispassionate view. I am sorry to say your whole argumentation reveals little as you either deliberately hid many facts or you are oblivious of them. Here are some examples: 1. You ought to have started with familial history of Prophet Muhammad ( pbuh) linking his lineage to Prophet Abraham ( pbuh) if not beyond, which you never did. 2. Ali(as) was not only Prophet's cousin, son in law, but as a teenage boy the first male to rise as witness to Prophethood of Muhammad ( pbuh). 2. Ali(as) was trained by Prophet very closely and persistently as Prophet knew he is the man who had to guide people after him. Ali followed prophet like a shadow absorbing all that Prophet had to say, introspect and reveal as messager of God through Gabriel. Ali(as) accompanied Prophet in all battles of survival of Islam during it's infancy. 3. You have rightly said Prophet could not have thought of departing this world without giving spritual and temporal reins to a man of His choice and hence of God. 4. You have willfully ignored the historical fact when Prophet upon return from his last Haj pilgrimage announced to a gathering of approx. one lac people at a place in Gadeer in Hijaz "that to whom I am leader Ali is also leader". Even during many times in his life Prophet said that Ali will be leader of my followers after his death. I agree it is inconceivable to think of Prophet leaving his Ummah( followers) without a just leader. Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman were no compare to Ali(as) either in knowledge, spirituality or bravery or ultimate consciousness. It's only Ali(as) who was directed by Prophet to give ablution to him after death. No one else had that sacred permission except Ali(as). 5. From a dispassionate study of history of Islam, you will find that the earlier three caliphs had umpteen times shown disrespect to Prophet. You will not find a single such instance with Ali(as). 6. You have a couple of times said that one of the Caliphs was his father in law and the other three son in law. By this you are obliquely saying that the succession to Muhammad (pbuh) was a family matter. It was not so. Ali(as) had the qualities that made him worth of succeeding Prophet. He was groomed by Prophet himself throughout his life begining first day of birth of Ali(as) in holy Kabba. Ali(as) as a baby did not open his eyes untill he was in the lap of Prophet himself inside holy Kabba. Muhammad 's relationship with Ali was like a Professor and student, albeit Ali(as) was his first cousin. The family of Prophet through his daughter, Fatima(as) are purest of pure this earth has witnessed. The whole family in fact are Professors of Islamic Theology. Thus begins the concept of Imamat as no Prophets could be sent by God after Muhammad ( pbuh). 6. Rise to the throne by Abu Bakr was so to say coup'de tat. He had no qualifications to be the spritual and temporal leader of muslims. You must know that he was elected as Caliph by Umar and his coterie by organising a hurriedly called meeting at Saqifa, a place now notorious for usurping the rights of Ali(as) as lawful successor to Muhammad ( pbuh) and ordained by Prophet during his life time. 7. Persecution of Prophet's family began immediately after the burial of Prophet. Not only Ali(as), but his sons, Hassan(as), Hussain(as), great grand sons upto 11th Imams have been persecuted, even murdered by Umayyid and Absssid rulers, who all are now dusted. 8. You have at length dwelt upon martyrdom of Hussain(as) without mentioning a bit about his elder brother, Hassan(as) Was not Hassan(as) a Caliph based in Kufa, Iraq? For your information, Hassan(as) was murdered by administering poison through his wife by Muawiyah, a rebel who occupied throne and operated from Damascus. 9. Hussain(as) had to embrace martyrdom because the Islam that his grandfather as choosen Prophet of God was being emasculated. He could not have compromised with Yazid, the misguided son of Muawiyah. 10. Crusades in Islam were orchestrated by Umar which you have rightly said that was the begining of violence in Islam. Crusades against Byzantines and Persians is a form of violent Islam which would possibly never have happened has Ali(as) been allowed to be Imam( leader) of Ummah after Prophet. It's these crusades and subsequent attempts by Muslims that changed the face of Islam from peaceful religion to violent religion, a glimpse of which you have witnessed a few years ago at the hands of misguided bunch of thugs in the shape of ISIS in Levant region. My humble request to you and many self styled scholars is to deliver lectures after careful study of authentic history. Half baked arguments are a disservice, both to scholars and naive...

Islam indeed came in Arab. But Arabs does not represent Islam. What the Arabs have done to themselves is a long story of their culture. Islam is universal. That is why the biggest muslims population is not in Arab.

I first heard of Sarah Ruden when I bought her translation of the first novel ever written supposedly; The Golden Ass by Apuleius, written in Latin. A friend of mine recommended it to me and the first time I read it I had no idea what was going on. It was only when I heard Ruben's voice on RUclips at some video like this or some other lecture at the time, that the book started making sense to me. I would read it with her voice. It felt as if I could only really get Apuleius from a kind of oral tradition. I heard, I understood, I saw. For this, especially, I am thankful to things like RUclips. Moreover, her point on homosexuality which begins at apron 12:10 mins has been in my mind and discourse ever since. it seems to me of the most profound of considerations around the topic. All mentions of the so called "depravity" of homosexuality in the Bible were never reflections on the careful decisions of a middle class gay couple with social security and health care insurance. It was a question of depraved elites, Hercules and his Hylas... and so on

Following is Allah talking to mohd, - (O Prophet ), surely We have granted you a clear victory’ - WHO IS THE “WE” Allah IS REFERRING TO ????? - ARE THERE OTHER ALLAHS ???? “ so that Allah asking that another Allah that he MAY forgive Mohd his PAST and FUTURE SINS - 48:1) (O Prophet), surely We have granted you a clear victory1 (48:2) so that Allah may forgive you your shortcomings, whether earlier or later,2 and may complete His favours upon you3 and guide you to the Straight Way,4 (48:3) and that Allah may bestow upon you a mighty help. INSTEAD Why did’nt Allah speak as under :- 48:1 ( O Prophet) I GRANT YOU A CLEAR VICTORY’ 48:2 SO I FORGIVE YOU YOUR SHORTCOMINGS, WHETHER EARLIER OR LATER, AND I COMPLETE MY FAVOUR UPON YOU AND GUIDE YOU TO THE STRAIGHT WAY. 48:3 AND I BESTOW ON YOU A MIGHTY HELP. Or AND I WILL BE AT YOUR SIDE ALWAYS Now, KNOW that Jesus had the authority to FORGIVE SINS. Matthew 4:24 News about Him spread all over Syria, and people brought to Him all who were ill with various diseases, those suffering acute pain, the demon-possessed, those having seizures, and the paralyzed--and He healed them. Matthew 9:2 Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven." Matthew 9:5 Which is easier: to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk?' Mark 2:8 At once Jesus knew in His spirit that they were thinking this way within themselves. "Why are you thinking these things in your hearts?" He asked. Mark 2:10 But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins..." He said to the paralytic, Luke 7:48 Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

as a shia i must admit that this was so off.

Big questions: Did Ali himself claim Calif status straight after Muhammad? Did he teach a different (Shia) form of islam? Was the religion taught differently when he became calif? Was there a different teaching and belief system claimed by the two parties at the time of Ali? None of this was answers and these are the most important questions when it comes to Shia/Sunni understand. These are the questions mostly unknown or talked about.

There's not shia or sunni, we should follow sunnah of our prophet mahammad

No privacy was there as it is mentioned in qoran.

Furqan ;distinguish between right & wrong. To know read what is written

Every Sunni knows about massacre of Karbala 😢😢

Allah (S.W.T.) in the Holy Qu'ran forbids Muslim to divide into sects (30:31-32 & 6:159). Rasul Allah (S.A.W.W.) forbid Muslim to divide into sects. Hon'ble Imam and Caliph Ali (A.S.) forbid sectarianism. Rashidun Caliphs (R.A.) never preached sects. Hon'ble Imam Hussain (A.S.) cursed his enemies to divide into sects.

Guidance to the truth is in the hand of Allah alone and no human being has any share in that.

1:17:34 based islamophobe refutation

This story can only make one shia and cry for husayn and ahlul bayt...no wonder the sunni world cover it up and dont talk about it

Could you imagine telling the Prophet PBUH that you’re a Sunni Muslim, a Shia Muslim, a Sufi, etc.??? I do not believe he would have accepted these distinctions. We are all simply Muslims, everyone in this Earth is born a Muslim. There are no divisions under Islam. There is only one way to submit and that is to Allah’s perfect will…

SO GLAD folks have been recording this history since BEFORE folks became terrified of American History.

YA HUSSAIN AS

As long as you cling to the fendmental core of your believe in TAQUEYAH(concealing what you truly believe in, while hiding hate, and malicious feeling toward others) , you never come to peace with anyone including yourselves. STOP DECEIVING YOURSELF 🛑 Muslim, who earnestly try to follow the the prophet and his disciples are full aware that the vast majority of you have irreparably diverted from the core essence of Islam to the extent that you become a religion by itself one. Read the mother books on shia aqeedah you no doubt attest to my opinion. (you don't believe that the current Qur'an is intact) READ THE QUR’ĀN AND THE SAHEEH SUNAH :you will definitely see the extraordinary difference between your AQUEDAH and the rest of Muslim AQUEDAH. Wake up before it's too late.

🥚

What a man can do, a woman can do better, kudos to Lesley Hazelton

SHAITAN`S work is very evident . Read in the comments , and don`t be blinded by the well mannered flattery , backed by the facts , which are not so hard to see , find , or be aware of , even by the least accomplished in academia . Thanks to the author , but no thanks .

After the death of the Prophet (pbhu), two cities Damascus and Baghdad drew the surviving descendants, the Quraesh sided with Damascus while the Prophet's descendants sided with the Shia of Baghdad. I would like to see Lesley write the theology of Shia (never published) that blessed them with divine knowledge that turned them masters of Golden Age of Islam (when Musa brothers made computers 1000 years before the modern ones, when Mu'tazila (question everything) was abandoned by fundamentalists and the Muslims were shoved to the back ranks, by Christianity and Judaism (no fault of theirs).

she knows nothing ...

She took 25 minutes to tell us that the story was very detailed and couldn't be described in a nutshell. Yet I think she wasn't able to do justice on anything she talked about. There was no order. I don't even know what the topic was. She skipped alot of details. At one moment she was talking about one thing and the next thing you know she skips 50 years. All that buildup was for nothing . The talk is nothing but a poor jumbled up Post Prophet Muhammad story . TOTAL WASTE OF TIME.

Syiah teachings in they extreme sects are different with what Muhammad (PBUH) teach. extreme to a degree that, Ali (r.a.) is higher then Muhammad (PBUH) in the relation to God and the teaching of 12 Imam is never being told by Muhammad (PBUH), so Syiah in the extreme is not Islam anymore, because the teaching is not known when Muhammad (PBUH) is still alive and teaching the religion (of Islam). Even Ali (r.a.), when he still around, never opposed all other three's Khalifah and said about what Syiah teach now. So you all tell me, is (that) Syiah is Islam? Islam is very simple, all the teaching is from Muhammad (PBUH) alone, others were just following Muhammad (PBUH) teaching until now. If Syiah teaching is Islam, how come Muhammad (PBUH) never mentions about it, even for a little bit.

I don't know of a single sunni that doesn't support the side of Hussain AS. No one agrees with yazids army only the nasibis and khawarij are the ones I know who say otherwise.

You Missed Very Important Points, Unfortunately..! The son (r.a) if survived, WOULD Have Been A Prophet. Not just a caliph. Secondly, Muhammad p.b.u.h. has clearly defined the POLITICAL set up in Islam, which doesn't allow the usual kingship of those times and what has been going till date around at some places. That is why, even Ali (r.a) was not his successor because he was like a son to him p.b.u.h.

Bruh tf did he said Sunni mean the ones who follow the tradition of the majority

Why hasn’t any Islamic scholars even think of this? To go back and look at things that splitted muslims for godsake. Are we so incompetent that we need an agnostic to explain what happened to our religion that makes what is is today?

If one can scape the mms black hole and watches few videos available from math professor Jeffry Lang, an atheist finding So many delicate points simultaneously both rational and spiritual in Quran, a Christian may find lots of confusions solved. One is advised by Quran, to pray to Almighty for seeking refuge from devil before reading Quran. This book gives whatever you are looking for, so it reveals itself to those who Almighty wants and protects those from human impurities of intention and engraved prior thoughts.

We are in the world but god says not to be of it .

After watching the video and reading the comments I would like to clear up some things. As a sunni muslim this is not the first time I heard this story. Most of us also learn about the injustices that happened to Hadrat Hassan and Hadrat Hussein. We also despise Yazid. We love Hadrat Ali and Hadrat Fatima as well as the Prophet’s PBUH grandchildren. However, what was not explained is why some Shias promote so much falsehood and hate for first 3 caliphs. These stories are so hateful that any who believe them could not possibly imagine any unity with sunni muslims. I dont know how many Shias believe this (some of my friends are Shia, but they never mentioned this to me) but, they claim Hadrat Umar is responsible for Hadrat Fatima’s death or that he even tried to marry her. That he used violence on women, that he constantly intimidated Hadrat Ali into silence. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Given that Hadrat Abu Bakr and Hadrat Umar loved the Prophet’s PBUH family more than any Sunni or Shia, it is impossible that they would harm any of them. Hadrat Umar often took to council before making decisions. He would first seek advice from those who knew the most Hadith, then those who memorized the Quran, then from Hadrat Ali. He often followed this method of what would the Prophet PBUH do? What does the Quran say? What does Ali say? In regards to what he is allowed from the treasury he followed Hadrat Ali’s suggestion because it was the strictest one. This also implies he might consider Hadrat Ali his successor. He also named Hadrat Uthman and Hadrat Ali as to who should be next caliph and that the council should choose. He also told them strictly not to choose any of his own sons because he didn’t want to be accused of making the caliphate hereditary. He once asked the Prophet PBUH if he could ask Hadrat Uthman to marry his daughter Hafsa. The Prophet PBUH replied that he would find a better husband for Hafsa and a better wife for Uthman, then the Prophet PBUH married Hafsa and married his daughter to Hadrat Uthman. (This is in response to claims Umar wanted to marry the Prophet’s daughter, but was refused and somehow forced the Prophet to marry his daughter) Hadrat Umar married Hadrat Ali and Hadrat Fatima’s daughter Umm Kulthoom. Claims that Hadrat Ali was forced to do this or that Hadrat Ali would marry his daughter to her mother’s killer only make Hadrat Ali seem like a terrible father which is untrue. Hadrat Ali could not be forced or intimidated to do that to his own daughter. He agreed because Hadrat Umar told him that no man would treat his daughter better. Hadrat Umar used to call Hadrat Ali “Abu Hassan” out of love. Al-Shaykh al-Tusi and al-Saduq both narrate accounts of ‘Umar’s dissatisfaction with anyone who would in any way speak ill of Imam ‘Ali. In one such instance, someone denigrated ‘Ali in the presence of ‘Umar. Pointing at the grave of the Prophet, ‘Umar said, “Do you know who is buried here? Do you not know that his name is Muhammad ibn ‘Abdillah ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib and his is ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib? Woe to you! You should not speak of ‘Ali but good, for if you slight him, you have hurt whom is buried here.” (I found this source that refers to Ali as Imam Ali, so it seems even some Shias do not believe in disrespecting the first 3 caliphs) To explain the first 4 caliphates as “perfect”… its not so much perfect, its the belief that it is all the will of Allah. This is hard to explain to nonmuslims, but even though we are saddened that they were martyred we also believe in fate. Everyone has a fated time when they will die. We grieve, but we do not remain in a constant state of suffering. This applies to the hard times we face in our own lives, we respond by saying “it is the will of Allah” and try to get through it with patience. To become bankrupt or ill or lose someone and proclaim that an injustice was dealt to us is not the way of a muslim. This life is temporary and we need to be thinking about the afterlife. Martyrdom is an honor and we believe they were martyred because they are honorable people and we believe they will receive what is promised in the afterlife. But of course muslims extremists and rulers like Yazid anger us. I did not know the story about the horse and the doves and I at least gained some perspective on how “sacred”, as Lesley hazleton put it, the Shias see Hadrat Hassan and Hussain. Like she said this is where muslims divide into Sunni and Shia. Though we love and respect the first 4 caliphs and the Prophet’s PBUH family we can not see them as sacred. This is an attribute only belonging to Prophet Muhammad PBUH, that is why we are called “Sunni” meaning Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH. In our view to see anyone after the Prophet PBUH as sacred would be against Islam. For any Shia and even Sunni reading this I would like to make clear that our religion in no way does not love and respect the Prophet’s PBUH family. For any Shia who wants to grieve Hadrat Hassan and Hussein you can do that as a Sunni muslim, but if you see them as sacred then this is where we disagree. I think another difference is that we do not believe it is okay to cause self harm or grieve in that way, we believe the Prophet PBUH told us not to do that. When it comes to religious beliefs we do not follow anything after the Prophet PBUH, we also believe that the first 4 caliphs are rightly guided and did not do anything in their rule against what the Prophet PBUH taught. The Prophet’s PBUH family is also rightly guided, but unfortunately rulership was wrongly taken from them. I was taught that Hadrat Hassan and Muawiya came to an agreement that Hadrat Hassan would become Caliph after Muawiya’s caliphate ended, Hadrat Hassan agreed in order to end more bloodshed. Muawiya ruled fairly, but was unaware of his son’s plotting. Muawiya’s son Yazid plotted to have Hadrat Hassan poisoned before his father’s caliphate ended so that the agreement would become void. This is exactly what happened. With Hadrat Hassan no longer living Muawiya gave the Caliphate to his son. This was his biggest mistake, not seeing the evil that Yazid was, showing favoritism by giving his caliphate to his son which no caliph had done before. He knew the Prophet PBUH’s grandson Hadrat Husayn was alive and should have rightfully given the caliphate to him, but being a father blinded him from seeing Yazid for what he was. And then the tragedy ensued under Yazid’s rule. After learning some of the things Shia muslims believe in after the tragedy I have a better understanding and I respect what is sacred to them. I only wish they would respect what we respect and not spread this hate for the first 3 caliphs because its completely false. I dont exactly know what Extremists on the Sunni side say because I dont accept that they are Sunni, but most Sunni muslims do not disrespect the family of the Prophet PBUH at all. We do not see them as sacred, but I dont believe this is the same as disrespecting or discrediting them. I still have a question about when exactly did the Shia Sunni split occur? If both agree on the tragedy of the Prophet's PBUH family then the disagreement is on the sacredness of his grandchildren. So at some point after the death of Hadrat/Imam Hussain at the hands of Yazid would have to have been the discussion on whether they were sacred or not, and probably at the same time when concerns over Hadrat Ali's rightful succession was discussed too. Those discussions that we have today about hadith and Quran verses that imply Hadrat Ali or the Shura.

As soon as she starts reading I get disengaged smh

Less that 10% of muslims are Shia .

Hi its been two years, no new video ... or any new video in making ?

I shall reveal what no sharah can accidentally know, the prophet said to one of his captains eh discipline good timing perfect still inshallah.. the captain said why we won the battle.. the prophet he sighed for the Muslims for they did not understand that even though perfection he timing intelligence even winning war an empires still we say inshallah that's true

Not just the Americans, even the Indians and Kiwis work hard to not remember a lot of things...

Speechless. Very informative. 'Forgiveness is abandonment of hope of a perfect past' - such a powerful saying ❤. Raised as a Salafi/ wahabbi, I recognize the very narcissistic orthodox approach on religious issues and history and looking at the ideology as perfect, I have learnt to step away from it, although I am not a highly practicing Muslim just very average. But yes, self righteousness and rigidity, are poisonous and fuel for fanaticism.

Allah الله

Masha Allah

🌷💞🌷💞🌷💞🌷💞🌷💞🌷💞🌷💞🌷💞🌷💞🌷💞🌷💞🌷💞💞🌷💞

💞🌷💞🌷💞🌷💞🌷💞💕🌷💞🌷

💕🌸💕🌸💕🌸💕🌸💕🌸👍

Mashallah

Unfortunately humans are flawed. Prone to violence, humans want revenge, time is irrelevant as to when this happens,the reasons are carried forward the response also. Because the clock can't be turned back to before the deed happened so we are left with revenge being the only way to try even thing's up in their mind. It's called emotion, for good or for bad. 🖖✌️

Kudos .

Fuck those who killed Hussain , family , and friends . Did those Muslim people who killed the prophets grandsons forgot the prophet message , literally why don’t you guys ever ask what happened to the prophets family after he died , they all got killled and poisoned, and what for just because they don’t agree with injustice

i think, the main problem of common muslims and including most of their Quranic scholars, are too much "legalistic," (fiqh oriented), as if ayatollah (god guidance) is only one: al Quran (holy scripture) and its derivatives (hadist, ijma, qiyas, etc). factually, God him self, in very first revelation to Muhammad, is not asking Muhammad to study (iqra) the holy Quran (cos the kitab doesn't exist at that day), instead He command Muhammad to study (iqra) other ayatullah, we called as ayat Kauniyah (universe and all of His Creations in it). That why in serious and encyclopedic Islamic traditional school, we always taught that beside al Quran, there is another god guidance (ayatullah) called ayat kauniyah (the universe and all god creation in it). and for qur'anic scholars, we also know --from al Quran it self, there are two others god guidance (ayatullah), that we as muslims should seek for God Guidances: called as ayat insaniyah (human being) and ayat tarikhiyyah (human history). if common muslims and it scholars, uses all 4 God Guidance in balanced ways, we will not always fall into legalistic point of view when we talking or examining Islam point of view about woman/feminism, politics, evolution, LGBTQ issues, democracy, secularism, separation between religion and state, on terrorism, etc. for me, if sociology, political science, statistics, history on the rise and fall of civilizations/countries (as interpreters of ayat kauniyah and ayat tarikhiyyah) comes to the conclusion that democracy with separation between religion and state, is the best political system in the world for advancement human civilizations, then all Muslims should choose democracy with separation between religion and state, as preferable political system to practice in all Muslims majority countries. also if expert on biology, doctors, psychiatry, etc (as interpreter of ayat kauniyah and ayat insaniyah) , said that beside man and woman (as gender), we also has intersex, hemaprodyte, woman with more testosterones, man with more X chromosome, etc, then all Muslims should choose to agree that god him self gave us guidance / ayat that beside man and woman as gender, there also another genders/pronouns that we should cherish, protect, and respect (cos if we don't respect others God Creations, are similarly with we don't respect our God as their Creator). if we stubborn, only picks, one ayatullah, we called al Quran (holy scripture/ayat Qauliyah), as the one and only god guidance to follow, then muslims and it scholars, will always fall upon into legalistic point of view (fiqh oriented) when we examining what is islamic point view on everything under the sky. wahabbiyah, isis, al Qaida, etc are trapped in this narrow point of view about Islam and its believe. of course, for responsible and encyclopedic islamic teaching, all those narrow point views on Islam are wrong (at least incomplete), misguided, and disrespecting God. umar bin khattab, as on of few sahabah (closed friend of Prophet), several times choose to disregarding some textual issues stated clearly in al Quran, and pick other decision after he choose as Muhammad successor, as leader (khalifah/amir), if there are more fairer and more justice way (socially) on making decision as Amir/Leader, rather than choose from what already state very clear in al Quran. he always choose more fairer and more justice decisions, even others sahabah question his decision. and as we know it, umar bin khattab is one of several sahabah (closed friend of Prophet) that guaranteed (informed) by the Prophet that he is going to heaven. his way of leadership decision, was a hard evidence that the closest friend to Muhammad, also not only consider holy scripture (ayat Qauliyah), but also social aspect, fairness, and justice (ayat kauniyah), when he making decision as a leader. nobody in umar bin khattab time, dare to called umar bin khattab as heretic/bid'ah, kuffar, or infidel. but in modern era, several of loud muslims, loud muslim scholars, and most of jihadist will immediately call us heretic/bid'ah, kuffar, or infidel if we also uses 3 other God Guidance's beside ayat Qauliyah, when we speak, analyze, examining islamic point of view on everything under the sun. how strange is it, if we following completes God Guidance's, then be called as infidel, kuffar, or bid'ah. legalistic approach (fiqh oriented) on Islam has bad impact on advancement of Islamic civilization, and has backward effect on development of its peoples: the Muslims. but yes, in Islamic jurisprudence (ushul fiqh), we also has similar concept with Umar way, but unfortunately has more narrowed approach and clearly far from sufficient to be implemented in modern era, we call them: maslahah mursalah (public good principle) and maqashid syariah (ratio legal over legal specific). if muslims also incorporate social science, biology, technology, history, political science, psychology, etc (as part of rightful interpreter all of God Guidancs/ayatullah), many problem we faced today in many part of Muslim countries, will be addressed in responsible way. Muhammad him self, in his own word (Hadits Bukhari Collection no 6015), said: muslims should follow person with specific expertise on handling matter, so let political scientist handle political matter, health matter should handle by doctors, etc. do not let everything under authority of quranic expert. in general, muslim should treat expert on other ayatullah (scientist as rightful interpreter whole universe and all of His Creations in it, as rightful interpreter human being behavior and it history) equal to expert on holy scripture (al quran). Furthermore, on all wide range of social issues, every new founding/understanding as result from responsible research by scientist, should supersede (abrogate) any old interpretation from holy scripture, cos all of new founding/understanding as result from responsible research by scientist, are also rightful interpreter of God Guidance (ayatullah). falling to do so, should be interpreted as a disqualified argument/opinion. Many argument/opinion base on fiqh (islamic legal specific), kalam (theology) and falsafah (philosophy), factually in most areas are quite obsolete for addressing social, economic, and political problem in modern era, cos most of them are derived only from ayat Qauliyah (Quranic centric), which is an incomplete way to sorting our problem in modern era. Most of old argument/opinion already supersede/abrogated by new founding/understanding as result from responsible research by scientist. Muslims should back to the complete of God Guidance in balance way on solving problem in Muslims world, not only using holy scripture as final say. and stop kuffar/infidel calling game, cos that game from a complete, genuine, and responsible interpretation of 4 God Guidances, is simply un islamic. and, as an open end conclusion, there is a deeper question: why common muslims and its scholars dare to disregarding 3 other God Guidance's? why muslims and its scholars become legalistic (only focus on 1 ayatullah / 1 God Gudance (ayat Qauliyah) called alquran, as if salvation of a civilization fate can be and must be depend on 1 cause only? as brief answer is: corruption and abuse of power by people in high power, it cronies, and big business that closed to muslim countries rulers at that time. all of them, almost single handedly creates and propagate common muslims and its scholars into disregarding 3 other God Guidance's. peoples in power, it cronies, and big business that closed to muslim countries rulers push and push relentlessly to narrow interpretation on morals and public interest thru perverted interpretation on the holy scripture. even, they dare to appoint unqualified islamic scholar as qadi for them to uses as fatwa producers in favors to their vested interest. since then, islamic civilization goes down spiral into inevitable decline from it's greatness. many fatwa produced in their regime will makes serious, genuine, and responsible islamic scholar scratching their head and shocked. fatwa on mihnah policy, on banning printing technology, banning radio, tv, google, youtube, etc, are among of perverted interpretation on holy scripture. it lead to tradition/repetition/reinforcement on using narrow interpretation islamic law for beating and punishing dissent and discontent on social injustice in islamic society. furthermore, it lead islamic society to become close minded, anti science, and trapped in textual approach tradition on just 1 god guidance called al quran (ayat Qauliyah) only, with narrow and more narrow interpretation. common muslim today and it scholar today are the real victims of bad fatwa born from dark alliance between high power, it cronies, big business that closed to muslim rulers before them. lets wake them up, by spreading the real genuine of God Guidance's and it's rightful interpreters that we called: sciences. amen.

I'll always love Dr. Forbes and his wife. But some would say, it's a slippery slope because there is already a group out there who literally think they have the right to "love" children. This topic has confused me to the point where When asked about it, I say God will judge us all and Gay folks have a right to go to church too. I know gay folks that don't believe in God because what is written in the Bible. I tell them.....God loves everyone. That's the best I can do. And yes I'm not comfortable with the women as I was with the men and changing sexual orientation surgeries makes me feel like did God make a mistake? So it's confusing to me, but I'll defend any as a human being.....so back up. I must say I do get upset when gays compare my skin color with their situation. No zippersbor hangers came with my skin. It's plain. for all racists to see and use against me. Very Good research and honesty Dr. Forbes.....

Oh my Imam Hussain…. I love you my Prince.