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Concernant the compensated system, it’s not always bad for the F side. Example : the f horn of the olds Selmer’s pistons double horn is really good, much better than Alexander 103 for example ! It’s a very good system for euphoniums or tubas for example. I don’t know why it’s not more developped for the French horn !

There's another type, which is very rare but very useful for high repertoire - the single Bb soprano descant. Same octave as a trumpet. Useful if you don't like triples. Only two extant makers still build them - Alexander (Model 99) and Takao Nakagawa. I personally use a Kalison for that rep and love it. French Cors a Pistons (piston horns) are also very useful for chamber music and solos when their unique timbre is desired, and historically-informed performance of 19th century French repertoire. One added benefit of using Vienna horns or 19th century rotary or piston horns for solo work are their interchangeable terminal crooks. If you're doing a recital with, say, Mozart 4, Haydn 1 and Strauss 1, you can readily change from Eb to D to F effortlessly without having to worry about transposing fingerings.

Do you have any ideas about the best way to purchase horns. Are there any rent to buy schemes? I find this is the real draw back for some people and to be able to buy a good quality horn without the huge financial hit would be beneficial. I play on a work provided horn but I will be leaving soon and need to get my own, my hope is to buy a good quality second hand Alex 103 but even these are expensive. If there are different options out there, I'd love for you to do a video on it.

Fascinating. Thank you for detailing the history and evolution.

Hornist for 35+ years. I play primarily on the Bb side, too. Even in high school and college, I would request parts in F when marching with a Bb instrument, then use the fingerings from the Bb horn. Matter of fact, my next horn will most likely be a single Bb with either high F or Eb descant and an A stopping valve. I'll keep my double for 2nd and 4th horn parts, but I rarely need the F side for horn 1 or horn 3. As for the G4 and F#4 on the Bb side (C5 and B4 concert), T13 is only 2 cents out of tune for the G and T123 is only 2 cents out of tune for the F# (as opposed to 14 cents playing T1 or T12, respectively). Theoretically, those fingerings should be more in tune for G5 and F#5 as well, but T0 and T2 should only be 4 cents off, but some of that depends on the throat size and flare.

About rule 3: trombones are pitched in Bb/F, but read in C. Also I think Baritones read in Bb when in treble clef, but read in C when in bass clef

I played on F horn for 1 year before being allowed to use Bb. We had the shared horns with 4 students, and my favorite was a Yamaha single in Bb, light, responsive, just great!

We hornplayers are most often drawn to the horn because of its glorious sound. Thus, begiinning with an F horn is most generally a good idea - especially since C thru G on the staff are among the earliest notes a beginner learns and they sound much better on the F horn. I admit to bias as, not having money for a double, I played a Carl Geyer Chicago F single for several decades before acquiring a double.

I started on the F side and only after playing for about 8 years started to introduce notes from the Bb side because I didn't want to get confused by different fingerings. Nowadays, I've been playing for 13 years and I'll interchange between both. If i have a solo or a prominant passage, during practice I'll experiment with both sides of the horn to find which fingering is easier, or if there's an alternate fingering to use. I can notice a much richer tone quality on the F side, so its definitely my preferred side up to C in the 3rd space. Beyond that, Bb is playing it safe.

There is another aspect of enjoyment. We keep trying to play such a difficult instrument because of beauty. The old school motivation was directed to the richer harmonic overtones of the f side. I recall being forced for 6 months as a kid to play a (hoyer) resting Bb double horn by a teacher who played an alex in an orchestra, whose view was you could not get a position playing F horn style. I despised the sound it made and almost quit horn. It was not until the school replaced those hoyers with 6Ds that i started to enjoy horn playing again.

I think F is better cause all the band music uses F horn

We learn on Hans Hoyer F horns (HH-700L) at our local music school. In small for the kids and regular size for adults. Pricey but have good mechanics and a nice sound. I'd like to have a Vienna Horn (for its rich sound) but I am turned down by the price :-D

As a bassoonist, I'll take the english variant please

What is exactly a vienna horn ? I always wonder about the way people speak of it without describing WHAT it is in fact, what is so special about it ! I therefore would appreciate very much an explanatory video about this mysterious thing... Thank you.

Jokes on you the "perfect" horn for me isn't on the list. (I play altonium)

Thomann makes great singles. Don’t forget about the goofy Schiller Elite G Key Student French Horn

B-flat mini singles: Briz 3/4 B-flat single Thomann HR100 Junior J. Michael 3/4 John Packer Jp161

F mini singles: Paxman Primo John Packer JP162 Thomann HR101

Compensating doubles: Paxman Academy John Packer JP263 RATH

Some less expensive full doubles: Paxman Academy Yamaha 567 Verus V Briz A980 Jupiter JHR1100

5 classic makes/models: Alexander 103 Conn 8D Paxman 20 Holton H179 Yamaha 667 (discontinued)

A lovely middle register tune! LOL awesome skit

Completely agree, mine stands in Bb and use F side like you do or depending on the passage. Sometimes it's just easier to play major arpeggios in the F horn rather than using cumbersome fingerings on the Bb one. Also, not all horns are equal sounding in both registers or equal in tune, so that also plays a factor.

For me, the real epiphany was not discovering where I should switch between F and B-flat; it was discovering that I could switch AT WHIM however I felt like it. Passage involves a lot of twisted fingers? Try changing that note from the B-flat side to the F side to make the fingering easier. Can't make that F below middle-C loud enough on the F side? Switch to the B-flat side, where it comes out a little stronger. Big octave jumps? Just stay on the same side the whole way through.

This gave me a shock

Hey love your videos! I would love to start to play the French Horn but I have no clue wich one to buy as a complite beginner. My fisrt tought to buy was a single F Horn. Do you have any recomendations?

sir, have u the video of double Horn fingering?

I started off on french horn at 10 years old, but wanted to play in the brass band and switched to euphonium. Then I wanted to play jazz so i switched to cornet. Years later i bought a horn to earn extra cash doubling in pit orchestras. One of the grwat things about coming back to horn was that i had learned orchestral transposition by that point. It makes everything easier. And as you said, a lot of C and D trumpets have the same alternative fingering issues. To make it easier to double i use one of the Wick horn mouthpieces with the wider rim. I play on big trumpet mouthpieces though, so its easier to accommodate. I dont sound fantastic but i can get by.

the first valve G on the Bb horn tends to be flat, but you can raise it up by playing it 1/3… this makes it slightly sharper, but by pulling out the third tuning slide a bit, it can be lowered so it is in tune… are there any other tuning tricks you know of for double horns?

Sir. Is it better the F or BB single sound ?

Hi Sir. Compare to single Bb with 4 valve and Single F, which one is better in sound and calm sound

Sir. There is in the market Single Bb with 4 Valve. How do u think of this, compare to F single?. Does the Bb with 4 valve already makes Better compare to F single?

Bizarrely, I always found my single F far more free-blowing than doubles I tried. The stuffiness *really* depends on the instrument.

Who the hell writes music in bass clef for the french horn? I have never ever seen that in my life.

This video gives me 2010 RUclips vibes, and I love it!

When I play my rotary valved Tuba upside downwards, the bell points downward and I have to play with the left hand. Middle c (c') is the 9th harmonic and I can never put my hand in the bell regardless of where the bell is pointing to. 🙂

I have something to say about the rule 13. I know it is quite debatable, since I have not calculated the populations or anything, but from what I have seen, pistons are not dominant world-wide on all but the horn (and trombone). Rather, the world is split roughly into two about equaly large halves roughly separated by the border between France and Germany. On the west of this border, pistons are greatly the dominant type, and on the east, rotors are (with the exeption of Japan, Australia, New Zealand, south Korea and possibly few more countries). There are two curiosities to this: Trumpet is greatly more common in pistons on the west, but is about 50/50 pistons to rotors on the east. And Tuba is extremely more common in rotors on the east and about 50/50 pistons to rotors on the west. I, being Czech, have never in person seen anything but trumpet with piston valves. I admit and I might very well be living in a bubble, since I live in one of these "some regions", but I see these regions as quite more expansive then is suggested in the video, spaning over almost half of the area where they use brass instruments. To avoid similar controversy, I would have worded this rule as "in the English speaking world pistons are dominant". Also, about rule 2. Where I live, the bass tuba for traditional music is F tuba and is about as common for beginners to start with as the Bb tuba (I personally have started on F tuba). Eb tuba is extremely uncommon here. I do not believe it is used too extensively anywhere in Europe other the the UK, Ireland and Denmark. Also maybe appropriate to reword as "In the English speaking world" And a small note to rule 5. Fourth valves on all tubas and "euphoniums" I personally have seen are operated with the right pinky, not the left hand. It is related to them being pretty much exclusively with rotary valves, as I have said earlier. Anyway, I have enjoyed the video :D I do not mean anything bad by this comment, These are just fun things to have a friendly discussion about.

What

Ahh i love it

I got randomly recommended this playlist. welp guess it'll be useful if i ever decide to play these instruments

I grew up solely in the British Brass band world and never considered them a brass instrument until I was in college..but there is no way I'd ever welcome them into a brass band. . Eb Alto Horns FTW!!!

Is the intro and outro tunes from Brahmkovsky playing the piano?

As a french horn player and reading the title I will just say I don't care.

Basically F horn is just a tenor brass. Double horn is a combination of tenor and alto.

I played in high school after starting on the flute in grade school. I'd like to start playing again but I really can't justify the cost of something I might hardly ever use. Nice channel.

sadly i don’t play any other brass instruments (besides trombone), so i’m stuck with the dreaded chart

This is very UK-centric, i recommend some research on brass instruments in the US as well as the rest of Europe.

Conclusion: the French horn isn’t a brass instrument, it’s a wind instrument.

Euphonium for the first 3 rules: am i a joke to u