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If we meet once a year, of course we have to get out on the water. What about your own project and how dose the chicken?

Despite having a very light outrigger the kōrkōr is very hard to capsize. Why would it be close to capsizing during a shunt?

​@@proasisprojectI find that quite baffling. If the korkor has "a very light outrigger" then it is easy to capsize by definition! What is stopping it from capsizing? The crew is the ballast on these things - no crew out to windward, no ballast. In a high wind an unsheeted sail hanging out to leeward doesn't just sit there tamely, it flaps violently about jerking on its halyard with frightening force. So you've got that plus the windage on the mast and a man standing up all trying to torque the boat over. I'd go as far as to say that without a second person out to windward the boat would be impossible to shunt safely in a squall. My own 22' Dierking T2 would have gone over in a heartbeat if I had to shunt it like that (I didn't, I could shunt it using a tackline from a safe ballasting position to leeward. However sometimes things would go wrong, the tack would get hung up on the lee rail or something, then I'd have to try to sort it out by moving myself leeward and that would be very scary if not disastrous).

@@chrisgrill6302 well if that would be the case the Marshallese would not use it like this for 2000 years already (this is really a traditional kōrkōr, not a western replica). Light outrigger means that I at 85 kg are just able to capsize it if I hang myself on a line all the way to leeward. But it's not easy, I can only barely do that with all my weight and strength. I can comfortably sail the canoe in up to 20 kn single-handed without being on the outrigger (usually always sitting on the hull). The sail is rather small for a canoe of this size, that's why the outrigger is so light and the handling so easy. Usually it would be made from solid wood to allow for a normal sized sail. The sail doesn't slam violently if handled correctly. The advantage of the traditional manual shunt is that there is nothing to get stuck or tangled. Slamming leads to sail wear, which is deadly when you use a sail from woven pandanus that takes thousands of hours to make.

Ja komm vorbei vg Lars

How could I forget that. Of course you are right.

That's all you need

Ja schreib mal an lars2390@gmx.de

@@fjordproa6510 danke, hab die Adresse und schreibe gleich.

Nice to hear that it worked for you too. Are there videos of the 10 meter proa? Best regards

disregard. I see your comment below that you are determining size before building retractable style. Very logical.

Yes, good point. But when I entered the harbour I was very slow and it went well enough.

​@@fjordproa6510actually, I just suddenly remember... the real test of a multihull rudder is surfing down waves. When I first become interested in proas in mid 2000s, breaking your rudder was somewhat of a badge of honour on the proa file. I didn't manage to build a successful shunter in that period but I did make a tacking outrigger that took me for a long cruise and I broke the rudder. I've also broken rudders on my cat. usually there is not that much force on the rudder but when you are surfing down a wave it's suddenly significantly more. Speed can quite easily double compared to normal and if you are not going exactly straight you will need to make a hard correction also so the force might be 10 times normal. You need strong wind and a long fetch and to sail downwind to get into those conditions

The CLC boats also have Western rigs on them, so the overall sailplan CE is going to be a long way aft relative to the hull-only CLR (unlike either of your boats). I think that big cassette rudder is doing a lot of lifting work to pull the CLR backwards.

The 'New Age of Sail' guys in Hawaii seem to be playing with reversible interlinked spade rudders. I'm 100% with you on being able to park on the beach. But I interpreted the video as "this is a quick test, I plan to implement Newick/Brown/Harris style retractable ones" Lot easier to stick a tube through the hull than build a cassette in.

@@375dash very true, great point

Hello, thanks for the comment. The main reason for my test was to find out how big the rudder blade should be at least. The rudders are made retractable into the hull. This is well-known technology and works well. Look at: clcboats.com/shop/boats/wooden-sailboat-kits/madness-31-foot-pacific-proa.html

Nice to hear that it works for you. Do you have a video? Best regards

Hello, it runs through Antal Low Friction Ring.

@@fjordproa6510 Thank you. I wish I had some plans so that I could build one. I've looked at a lot of different proa designs and have gravitated towards yours. I guess it's because it's modern, water tight and has an easy system to shunt for single handed sailing. I grew up racing when I was a little kid and went to sailing school every summer. I loved it and also excelled at it. Over the years I've raced all types of boats but gravitated to catamaran sailing and almost qualified for the Olympics in a Tornado catamaran when I got first place in a qualifying regatta with about 200 boats on the starting line. I got four 1st and one second and it was my first catamaran race ever. Anyways, I'm planning on building a Cyber 48 to sail around the world and would really like to build a proa to take with me so that I can have a little extra fun. I was thinking of putting a hinge on the bottom with a rod that connected both halves together so that I can store it inside or have compact storage on the side deck. I believe that it could be water tight if I were to build it with tight tolerances and build it out of carbon fiber. It's either building one of these or building a 9 ft. Spindrift nesting dinghy by B&B Yacht Designs.

@@robertlaird6746 I would build a P5 from Othmar Karschulin or a T2 from Gary Dierking and put my riging system on it.

@@fjordproa6510 Thanks. I'm hear in the USA so don't know the metric system all that well. How long are these boats and what length would you recommend for the shortest size. I weigh 220 lb's.

Why should anyone feel foolish sailing Proas ?

@@fjordproa6510 good rig for trans-pac, in-shore clumsy and inefficient.

@@alfred-vz8ti Hello, traditional boats were actually all somehow clumsy from today's point of view. My boat is now working quite well in narrow waters, look at video#18 from 2:46 or 4:49. Efficiency is a question in relation to what? Of course, modern racing boats are sailing better, but they also cost x to infinity times more. James Wharram said that one should not compare his boats with modern boats of the same size, but with boats of the same cost. Then his boats do well in all areas. Much larger, thus more seaworthiness, more living space and about the same speed at comparable costs. And due to the low tech used, it is also easier to repair everywhere. My old tarpsail lasted 3 years. I have now built a new one. Material costs 70 euros + 4 hours of manual work. Without the sewing machine it would have taken 2 hours longer. And the material is available in every hardware shop worldwide. I think that's also efficient. I think there is still a lot of potential in proas. I want to adapt Proas to our present conditions. Then maybe more people will be interested in it and contribute their ideas. I mainly have ideas and timeI it would be good if someone would invest money in hydro and saildynamic research. All other problems are not so difficult to solve.

Yes. PVC weather protection fabric tarp from the hardware store.

Nej, jeg er tysk og bor i Flensborg. We are planning a meeting in the first half of September. Just ask Henrik from www.proas.is. He wants to organize it in Surendorf. 15 km north of Kiel. Mange hilsner Lars fra Flensborg

@@fjordproa6510 That is exciting! Thank you for bringing me in contact. Med venlig hilsen Carl Emil fra København

@@fjordproa6510Would a bermuda rigged asymmetric catamaran be an anathema to proas? I did my first ghetto rigged sailing in 2019, since then I have built a new ama in 2020 and am currently finishing new vaka. As I live 200km from the sea and there is just one bigger lake nearby, I have designed my boat around ease of transportation and fun of sailing. Also materials at hand have guided the designs... Greetings from Estonia.

Yes, you won't, because it's Henrik's and Christian's boat. 😜 But take a look at www.Proas.is there they describe that it workes quite well.

Sim, os proas estão sempre indo e voltando. O boom é sempre de barlavento. E eu não uso remo. Dê uma olhada nos meus outros vídeos. Espero que a tradução não seja muito ruim.

@@fjordproa6510 a tradução foi muito boa. Entendi o que quis dizer.

Hi, that's a good point. What are the advantages of a Proa? First of all, I find interesting to try out something different. The wind always comes from the same side, you can steer without a rudder, you have a crab claw sail. Why is the outrigger to windward? At catamarans or tries, the mast is in the middle. The hulls not only have to carry the weight of the boat, but also the sail pressure, which pushes the leeward hull into the water. What increases the resistance. The Proa only needs to support its weight. The sail pressure lifts the outrigger which moves then through the 800 x thinner air. And of course, every proasegler wants to have the outrigger flying. It is also much easier to right a Proa after capsizing, because it usually only capsizes up to 90°. I think that Proas still have quite a lot of potential. So if someone would put a lot of money and time into it, he could still achieve something. But I have just time to invest. There are more aspects, but that's going too far for now. I think I'll make a video about it. It's just fun for me. Even if an old Hobie 16 is still faster than my Proa.

@@fjordproa6510 I see a lot of people involved with Proa, they must have their reasons. Anyway, thank you very much for your attention. I'll follow you and learn about the subject. Good luck and stay with God!

Hello, interesting point. But isn't it the case that the sail pressure point also moves forward when sailing? Couldn't that level out again?

@@fjordproa6510 probably, but not as much. I used a windsurfer rig on my 16’ proa. I guess with the full battens that was very stable. I had hoped to control it with the sheet as you show, but no luck.

@@markthomasson5077 I had also started with a surf rig. Didn't work for me either. But with the crab claw sail it worked very well.

In German it is sold as Delrin or Pom. The actual plastic is Polyoxymethylene or Polyacetals.

@@fjordproa6510 great, got it. Thank you!

​@@fjordproa6510 Also known as Acetal. Nice Proa👍

No, this boat was designed and built by Klaus Deppermann. I described it in video #9. The other proa from my other videos is designed and built by me.

@@fjordproa6510, thank you - including for the demonstrations both on land and on the water. Would a wider hull not be as efficient in the waves and wind?

@@hntrains2 Actually, I think that a narrow hull is faster. As long as you drive through the water and dont glide on it. Which is the case with multihull boats (Displacement hull). But of course, one has to make compromises to achieve enough volume, for a given length