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On a side i think you are right, on the other i feel like Milio also heals a lot. Echoes and moonstone cant be "ignored". Don't get me wrong serpent Is probably a good call here, but how many adcs can effectivly buy that or even both items? Also If I have to itemize both antiheal and anti-shielding my stats are tanking for It which Is pretty stupid in my opinion. Why should I lose value (10ad) value because enemy team Just plays something that heals? Sadly some champs like Ez tank a lot of dps loss from such item gaps without even counting that they usually get itemized After the core build (4th item). Anyway There would be a lot to Say, but my TLDR : antihealing as ADC Is not worth the cost and It closes an item slot that could help you at surviving/damaging way more. (Unrelated to the clip of the video)

@@EneinoCoach I have been over this with a lot of high elo players in recent patches so I will try to explain my view and the mathematics about this as clearly as possible. Sure, you lose 10 AD when you buy mortal reminder instead of either lord Dominic's or seryldas. But when it comes down to effectiveness, your thinking that those 10 AD make such a grave difference is just wrong. You lose 10 DMG on Autoattacks, 13 dmg on your Q and 10 DMG on your W... All while reducing Milios healing which with right items can get to over 700 with his ult and to almost 300 per second from W and Echoes of helia combined with Moonstone. So if you think that your 10 AD outperform the value of the 40% anti heal you are extremely far off. You don't lose enough DPS to be mad about it. If we take for example, Milios ult healed him for ~300 in this fight which would be 500 before antiheal, your 10 AD would not make that difference. Especially after the lord dominiks nerfs losing 5% armor pen there is no reason not buying mortal reminder when there is healing in the enemy team. And for sure, not all ADCs can buy serpents, but ezreal is one of those champs that has the capability to since he doesn't need to stack attack speed or crit. In the case of ADCs that don't need attack speed to function properly, every single one of them can buy serpents fang and every single one of them can buy mortal reminder while functioning the exact same, if not better. And sure, it's better if a melee champ buys serpents, but if there is no feasible champ to buy it, you, as an ADC should definitely think about it. The thing is antiheal isn't usually counted as DPS, so the thinking is inflated. If you count the healing you reduced as damage, you will soon see that most games where there is a healer in the enemy team, your mortal reminder will outperform even your trinity force, sometimes by more than double... My comment was wrong, I meant serpents would have reduced more shield than mortal reduced healing, nonetheless I would say you need both items there to kill them there.

I do really understand your point and i read all of it and i'm aware of how the math works. But I think you misunderstood my point of view which Is : on a soloq envirement ( and to a large public of not only High elo players) I would never tell an ADC player to buy It. I am Fairly convinced that 10ad (without counting the 2 ez ad Nerf or in general Ez as a champ especially crit champs) does make a huge difference if you Watch all the spell landed during the game and should be the good to go for 95% of the playerbase. While in High Elo antiheal does actually outperform because you expect to have a team on your back that makes value out of your item. Hope I clarified that the item itself has value, but the value Is spread on how your team plays It out on TF and not merely on your stats. Example: I would never play antiheal before masters but Simply RAW 6 crit items/ full DMG easier to win lane to stomp, to oneshot to get a pick, everything Just Is more approachable. I might be wrong but 10 ad on a crit build doesnt have the same value as an ez build (depends on how much he hits 😂)and so It goes on. You Can try what I said on a heavy hard hitter ADC like jinx and the DPS difference would be huge compared to an LDR. Also in soloq most of the games are 30~ long making itemizing antiheal for a lane which Is not even yours brutal if not almost useless if your team is behind. But yeah, all of this it's outside of the game played. Thanks for the nice talk I appreciate your feedback this can help anyone understand the topic Better!

Thank you! Hope you enjoyed!

I think mages n tanks overall do a Better job because they require less Gold Power to make the same job of an adc not counting they can take tp and even if dove they never get behind + lost chapter being cheap and easy build path you basically have no mana costs! Well for tanks you Just Need tabis and a sunfire (at best)

@@EneinoCoach Yeah I think the meta could be divided into 3 groups: Tank + Enchanter for power farm & passive scaling; Mage + roaming or counter pick sp; Early game Adc + bully sp like Pyke Naut And so the late game adcs could be picked as flex & or respond in any lane. Games would be a lots healthier & more strategic with flexible thinking like that. But it'd be unfriendlier to braindead one tricks including One class pony. And we all know how Riots always try their best to keep them happy.. Skirmisher & Assassin mains always have that VIP card available, Adcs are actually only 2nd class membership compared to them bc it often takes half a year to bring back adc "satisfactions".

Thank you! I appreciate your comment! ❤️

Ezreal from behind actually almost loses 1vs1 against Raptors btw 😂

Cool Story Bro

You think GM and challenger is average? Are you okay?

This Is so wrong. One game out of give goes over 25+... Just check statistics on websites + i played many matches in High Elo i can confidently Say you never reach soul point. You can have your point of view but you can't Say grubs are bad when trist mid sits at insane pick/win rate because of 1 bomb = 1 tower with grubs.

because Im not talking high elo, the majority of players are in "low elo" with a completely different environment where soul is reached in way more games. the lower u go, the longer games last and the more dragons start stacking up. whatever ur strat is, u need to be aware of the environment u are in and adapt to it. Esport League is a completely different environment to solo queue, and high elo solo queue is almost completely different to low elo one, a strategy that works on one does not mean it necessarily works on another

In fact the title states "High Elo" not low Elo, low Elo drakes and grubs are both a good win con anyway since 95% of toplaners are illaoi players so pushing more actually makes a diff. But yeah if you put It from this perspective OFC Drake are not useless, i Simply stated High Elo soloq = drakes useless which Is not untrue if you think about It.

@@EneinoCoachSure, perhaps the league you play is this fast where thats the optimal play for the top 5% of players. I just think people need to be reminded the perspective, that 95% of them play in a completely different environment and not see this video and become "grubbies" as I call them., it really pisses me off seeing people replicate high elo strats like drafting ap junglers and/or rush grubs in normal elo when that strategy just does NOT apply to the environment they are in and not knowing what they are doing and WHY high elo players do the strats they do

Copying pros Is a thing that could actually makes sense especially talking about champion meta and meta read, but not when you talk about how to "corretly play the game" because there are still no micro mechanics to actually pursue the main focus of the game. So copying Is good for builds but not to learn game sense!

250 game 55% winrate tank botlane, most played ksante ornn

Glad to know! What's your take on how to Nerf adc on top mid without having them being bad on botlane? I'm all ears! ^^

​@@EneinoCoachthe support straight up not being in lane ever is only 2 levels ahead for the bot laner. The bot lane as a role sucks, they should unrework the xp changes they did a while ago to bot lane that fked the balance to the point where they made marksmen this broken to compensate. It was a while ago too I think

If you want to know how broken XP really is, if you straight up do not farm a single camp as a jungler, and just perma gank, you will only be down 3 lvls to the guy full clearing. It's almost impossible to generate an XP lead, unless you are straight up running it down, and even that it is impossible to go beyond a 3 lvl gap pretty much ever, and its all because Riot just doesn't want to implement a pause feature for game and not wanting people to give up after they have to DC for like 3 minutes to restart their PC because vanguard is slowing the game down to a crawl

@@EneinoCoach nerf runes. Adc's are really safe because they run fleet, the thing that replaced overheal and second wind. And fleet ms paired with swiftness makes them uncatchable

​@@satysfaction9702 i think the problem of precision tree Is that every keysyone that Is not fleet has basically zero value After lethal tempo Removal, conqueror is not an adc rune, pta works on Few adcs, so of course fleet being able to be runnable on all adcs does make it more impactful especially on sides. But other classes have way Better items and runes and synergies, you could play jax pta fleet and conqueror and grasp while i could only play zeri with fleet because no other options match my intrest. So yeah nerfing fleet would be good, but a makeup rune for MOST adc has to be created from my perspective (Kai'sa with pta Is terrible gaming experience imo and same goes for Jinx, ashe , Twitch and so on... ) so yeah High Elo Will Always prefer mobility compared to "optional increased damage output" that also needs a specific time to proc or stacking 12 times the same buff!

I think this is a very one-sided view on the issue. The current issue with ADCs in solo lanes (as usual when this happens, this is not the first time) is that these champs are simple, linear, and very uninteractive there. They have spammable waveclear that gives the continuous level advantages and big minion waves to fight in. This is a problem because bot and solo lanes play very very differently in terms of lane states. Bot lane wave management is fairly fluid - ADCs can manipulate the wave from almost any position without needing to spend mana on that. Solo lanes work very different, with both laners essentially taking turns on their push window, with turn steals / skips requiring high costs to be paid (lots of lost CS or spending large amounts of mana). ADCs are not good duelists - especially early. When they win lanes, they do so by basically neutralizing lanes and imprinting their laning pattern to the solo lane. This means that champs basically don't get to play their turns where they are supposed to be threatening. That issue compounds with the fact that the point where ADCs ARE actually very strong is level 1, which allows them to cover over their weak early game by maintaining a permanent level advantage. This is also why the most problematic item is Shiv - it's effective at denying priority. This has little to do with agency for the ADC - you are just spam shoving waves. If you actually challenged the enemy champ to a fight where they also get to press buttons you would get shred to pieces, so all you do is spam abilities on waves and then f*ck off. In the end this is fixable, nerfing Stattik and grubs will do the trick. But we will probably not see the grubs be nerfed until worlds patch (because pro staleness yada yada).

Sadly most of the nerfs they're aiming towards Will Also affect botside adc making It again a "supportive" role since they have level disadvantage. Also cant really justify upcoming Kraken nerfs.. it's w/ever riot never fixes the main issue they Just gut the problem without asking XD

It's an issue because of Marksmen invading other lanes. Yeah, I wish Marksmen felt better in Bot Lane rn, but laning against them in a solo lane is extremely unfun. If you're melee or Cooldown dependent (so almost all mid and top Laners) Marksmen are just uninteractive lane opponents. Tristana Mid just jumping on you level 2 and chunking most of your health bar is horrible. You have to either accept that's gonna happen or not get exp or farm until the wave crashes at your tower while still taking poke. Vayne Top just poking a few times every time you go for a minion and running away with Fleet Footwork, then harassing you under your tower if you try to farm. If you're melee you're always put on the backfoot if you don't get assistance from your Jungler. If you're reliant on cool downs you have to pick between using them to farm or attempt to punish them for poking you. Even if you do get a small lead from a gank you can almost never press it or rotate to exert pressure elsewhere because you can't shove a wave without losing a significant amount of health against a Marksman unless you're a Mage, meaning you blew all of your cooldowns. Not to mention that by the point you can wave clear quickly as most mages the Marksman should have Stattik Shiv, meaning they can match you anyways.

Part of your vision is right. But Adc is far from being bad, unless it's on botlane as I mentioned so I seem to agree with you that adc (on botside) it's not a strong role. We can't say the same on lanes where you get to freescale by buying statik and get perma solo xp with too many self defensive layers. Your damage is low because of 1st no crit item just like you said, so to counter a tank you need way more items (4-5 if not more) but this is assuming that you're playing botside AND that the enemy will pick tanks (trust me 10% of top/jungle playerbase plays tank at an high level except the current leona/naut/rell meta that we have). Anyways, nothing stops you to play an item which is not statik, especially in botside. I still feel like you could go 100% crit on botlane and you wouldn't be able to kill a malphite anyways because of how levels work full build adc lvl 14 would never shread a lvl 18 3 item malphite with randuin plated. So yeah TLDR : Armor and levels are broken + no on hit adcs in meta = perma randuin tanks = carry adc bot useless = adc bad on bot. Hope this clears everything!

Simply we lost all the will of playing for someone that we don't know. This is what coaching websites have done to the playerbase, they teach you how to grow your skill as a player but not how to be a better teammate. Ask yourself why 95% of high elo supports are playing enchanter instead of an engager or a mage.. That's because it is fairlier easier to rely on a single carry and an individual peeling him off rather than 5 carries fighting for who farms the wave. But this of course brings the risk of the said carry player to throw the game out with a mistake. I find it to be way more enjoyable to lose games with a "game sense" on it rather than having 3 adcs stealing jungle to a carry jungler like lillia or brand because they need resources!

Yes! Italian but making content in English right now! Hope you enjoyed the video 😊

Grande frae

Yeah! It's funny that the difference in low-high Elo Is that High! Before this patch It was also like that in High btw 😂

in low elo you just shit on their adc even if they're fed beyond belief because they position like shit and you just oneshot them lol

@@peterkirk8510 sadly in plat+ you have enouth people who actualy can position / you have a support shutting you down or bailing them out when you try.

@@adsteller completely disagree, anyone below like 200+ LP master isn't going to stop you effectively enough

​@@peterkirk8510I agree with your sentiment but youmight need to roam get your team ahead a bit first jf you know what i'm saying you won't be able to just dive for their adc no matter how fed he is lol you're not playing bots.

Everything you're saying Is right, crit overtuned, on hit Just not working at all unless enemy quadruple front and max hp on hit like kog, mages on bot undivable. As you're saying There are some topside champs that counter adcs, but The problem remains , ADC shouldn't be able to lane in any matchup on topside not only in hard Ones. It all started with vayne along with Ghost n' boots but at least She was somewhat diveable on 3rd crush especially if camped (watch Renek nida pair) and also later in the game. Try to do It now with statik, barrier mov speed effects on First item and so on... It surely changed a lot from previous patch notes because of all this tiny changes!

Another thing that came to my mind Is the flexability potential. How do you know if zeri Is mid toplane or adc? Keep in mind that last pick usually Is given to the top or support usually but Hey, we're talking about soloq here 😂

@@EneinoCoachim a zeri otp and adc main, recently people have been taking her from me to play mid with her. even tho they dont have the same mastery as the champ as me she gets double the value from playing mid instead of adc. it makes me very sad to see i have to swap roles just to play my favorite champ in ranked. I think they really need to nerf crit items. infinity edge and ldr are stupid broken on champs that can abuse them, and i hate to say it but nerf zeri's e cd early and buff it late. its already 18 seconds i believe but make it longer at rank 1-3. The early trades in top and mid with a much more punishing cd might make her come back bot.

​@@akii8685 I love zeri aswell! I Just don't like her now because She's basically a farm-bot till minute 40 to rush 5-6 items and oneshot everyone! Objectivly Zeri has no agency before that (if we take off statik) so nerfing It might Just destroy the champion early game making her unplayable on bot once again! I think they Will never fix this problem because of how zeri's kit Is made unless they Power Nerf her meaning that She Will be bad botside aswell...

The most stupid take of the year award. Have more range than adcs are you daft? how is darius or illaoi gonna outrange any adc on top lane ? I ma do an experiment imma go on op gg and look at the top picks.

That Is because of tower plating being not accessible/taking Little to no damage before minute 5. On botlane this buff on towers does not exist so it's easier to crack It and then make your support/adc stay midlane. If you do the opposite the midlane swap happens way too late in the game. If this rule wasn't existing probably we would have seen this happening.

😭

I completly agree with your statement! I also would love to see ADC being played on botside that's why I'm making this video! Fixing just requires probably a statik removal or cost increase and some tune down if not rework on items movespeed, ghost, barrier, and all defensive layers of adcs (ZERI REMOVAL AHAHAH). Self peeling shouldn't be a thing on Adc unless you get it as a 4rd 5th item during the game. That's litterally the concept of playing adc - high damage but position based. It should be depending also on your team and how they play around your lead. I just hope they'll bring back EXP in botside so that you can finally play/carry without having to play a solo lane! Hope you enjoyed the video! Keep playing Annie it's such a nice champ!

@@EneinoCoach They're nerfing shiv next patch, that should help a bit.

The funny thing Is that because of level disadvantage on botside, meta Always tend to be the utility Ones (ashe) but when talking about midlane toplane we see zeri tristana lucian this Just showcase how bad snowballing doesn't work on botside!

@@EneinoCoach yeah exactly, why i transition to vayne top, yes its strong into the match ups regardless but i did it strickly because unless you are duoing bot "not with randoms" then yeah bot is ok but playing around and depending on no coms and shit in a duo lane where two people have ideal ways of playing just doesn't work just too much of a hassle to deal with communication in the game

That's exactly the issue, if you play Vayne your support needs to pick a support-type of champion, but if he picks Brand then there's going to be a gold distribution problem. You could steal kills to each other and make snowballing even harder because gold would be shared among all the players and not only on one of them, making it only harder to understand what's the win condition of the game! Many games are composed by 5 carries, but many champs (such as malphite) just do an insane job even with 3k gold behind! There should always be a champion that can statistically stay in game even when behind considering jungler can't be on both side of the map! It's like asking to play around a Irelia top and a draven thresh in the same game! Unless the enemy doesn't make a mistake, it's realistically impossible that both sides will go ahead! It's not only that! Then you find yourself with either a useless carry which could have easily played the game out by playing a less gold reliant pick!

The video doesnt clarify properly its not your fault! I'm still trying to improve but basically what happened Is that enemy team killed me, and suddenly a Drake call happened, while i had an item advantage because of dead enemy team had to decide, do i leave Drake and reset or fight? They fought at 50% hp with no items meaning i had a huge lead on this fight!

Thank you ❤

If they nerf both ie collector, you Will have less damage by playing fleet, dark harvest could fix that, but I'm not an enjoyer of the rune. Fleet scales insanely well with jhin because critical strikes + fleet allow you to space and walk really fast, keep in mind that Jhin Is not made to kill tanks so dh it's usually unecessary damage (think of It like an mmo character maxed on damage but with insane low Speed) that would make him really slow and Easy to catch since he's dashless aswell!

I'm Sorry If you didn't like that! I Just made a clip because I personally liked the predict on the e, and to show how bad new masteries look! The purpose was not to Flex out my skill, i Just liked It a lot because It felt cool! But i get your point, have a nice day!

Oh thank you! Im glad you enjoyed! ❤️

I can explain you the reason if you Wish. Priority in competitive Is extremily important, we've seen this many times on league in different forms, from double ranged comps adc, to Lucian nami and some Ashe/caitlyn variations. Currently prio on bot means anything because of how the support can affect the map with It. Kalista it's picked Always because of his insanely oppressive lane that no champion can match (aside from Draven) to get 4 drakes and to help the support rotate perma. Overall even If shes that good at that, shes not reliably a Carry for the endgame scenarios, reason of why kalista support tends to be objectivly Better! Instead on soloq people Just don't play around strenght of comps or general plans. You should expect to have at least 3 drakes in 22 Min timer but soloq being a Mess Just makes It so that kalista Always has an hard time. Not to mention lethal Is gone right now, but this Is another Story. Hope this insight helped you!

Soloq and proplay are not the same. That's why a lot of champions in pro play are really low tier in solo q. For example Katarina is S tier in soloQ but nobody pick or ban her in pro play.

Exactly! Some champs are also d tier on High and then s on low like yasuo because of how people play around them and how easily they let them scale!

Idk man i installed Vanguard and then It exploded by itself currently playing without It ( don't ask me how) ! Do you have problems with Windows or?

@@EneinoCoach u are able to play without vanguard? lol! I already tried every possible solution but none is working :/ i gotta buy a new pc just for playing this dogshit game fkkkk

are u on win11 or 10?

What issue are you having specifically? Is It Just that you have an old Windows/hardware or lag on pc?

Currently on Windows 10, it's the bare minimum for Vanguard to work, w11 it's not needed!

Shen diff 🤣