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When Overwatch 1st came out, a buddy and I grinded it constantly, up to top 500 on Xbox. But since this was before role que sometimes he'd get stuck with support or tank (or refusing to switch off reaper until someone else did it, which often happened.) But when he did get those roles he'd exclusively play zenata as a damage character or roadhog as a damage character, regardless of our or the enemy team's comp. The point here is, some players will never play a role that isn't DPS, and if you try and force them they'll just drag the game down trying to anyway. I don't know what the best solution is, but maybe just let DPS players deal with longer ques.

Im sorry, i havent been keeping up with overwatch, ARE YOU TELLING ME THEY LET YOU USE A LIMITED CURRENCY FOR A FASTPASS BECAUSE THEY DESIGNED THE GAME POORLY

I KNOW you won't get very many #compTF2 afficionados on this video but a better example of a Tank isn't Heavy: It's Demoman. Takes space via a mixture of high skillshot grenades, is a great pick for Ubers, is heavily involved in being an anchor for the rest of the team due to proximity to Medic, ability to defend the Medic and similarly push into and defend chokes. Heavy IS a Tank mind you, but to claim Overwatch didn't have examples OF Tanks for years is just not true given the raw amount of FPS games that have "Fat HP guy" with some going the way of making them close ranged killers and others going the flat out Minigun route, but the main example is area denial which other classes and heroes tend to lack which is at the core of good action game tanks, including in more fast paced MOBAs where you have both a ton of HP but you also have burst and / or annoying abilities to FORCE enemies to interact with you, a thing that Overwatch never had for Tanks as they typically boil down to such basic bitch ideas like "A guy who holds a shield and if you get within a few inches of him he can slowly slap you to death" and "Monkey who CAN jump and hit you but like, he can only slightly taze the hair off your chest over the coure of a full minute." Most specifically it's the main Tanks that Overwatch has always misunderstood and that fundamental misunderstanding was core to why Rein even exists and why so many old maps were based around the size of his shield, a thing that existed all the way into Junkertown's existence where they were STILL building levels primarily around how Rein's shield would cover the choke vs, IDK, making chokes that don't require a very specific hero to get through consistently. Mind you that the issue isn't even *melee* Tanks, the issue is that main Tanks in Overwatch aren't threatening enough on their own merits 99% of the time to make them a high priority over far more dangerous Supports who can outheal God itself and also have some of the most annoying abilities, or other DPS who make the game's Time to Kill insanely low. This was never helped by the abundance of CC that makes Tanking, in and of itself, hellish, a thing that GOOD FPS' reign in substantially by making them hard to land skillshots, not bread and butter very basic aspects of entire characters ala Sombra - Mei - McCree. Marvel Rivals actively DOES melee Tanks in a shooter game good BECAUSE Cap and Venom can close distance quickly, force you to shoot them, and either get out or sustain long enough that you can lose that matchup unless you start landing some ridiculously good shots. In Overwatch the Main Tanks can largley be regulated to later in the killings cause they have a ton of sustain but no real threat, made worse by stronger and stronger healing in later metas and heroes while they're ability to actually kill only ever dropped for the most part outside of the obvious thing: Ultimates. Hog just suffers from the fact that he combo's with basically no other Tank until Orisa is made, and by that point it was already so far into the game's life that people could either play around Hook or were so used to abusing CC against Hog that his ability to one-shot became redundant as people would just hammer you to death from a mile away because you have A shield.

"just one more queue bro i promise it'll fix the traffic this time"

Yeah alot problem with that system. Having a fill role is fine, but you want to give currency multiplier on the mode as opposed to a gameplay effecting bonus. Heck you could even sell your priority passe as a shop item. Now fill role technically gets you the currency faster. 6 for a win seems crazy high, 1 for a lose seems iffy unless you got a solid reports monitoring system that can catch those that are exploiting losing to get get passes faster. Also you needed tanks and maybe sometimes supports so you probably should have actually give pass for queueing as a tank and less for queuing as support, and zero for dps queue. Either way the priority pass system was scuffed not even sure how it would work if you queue as a party. As i assume queuing with a teamate who picked tank would let you skip the dps queue anyway since they need to tank to join the match.

Methinks Roadhog is not supposed to be a tank, i know his inspiration well which is Pudge from DOTA, in 2-2-2 he might work but in 1-2-2? dude is never going to work cuz his main game is to flank and pick off squishies which is in technical terms is what a Ganker style is. Pudge is mainly played as a ganker picking off enemies who are mispositioned in the early to mid game with the added bonus that he gets some stat if enemy hero killed near him (dude starts of squishy too btw), once he gets all item made in late game then he comes with the team for team fights. Since in OW there is no such thing as making items and level ups this makes roadhog a headache to design. Me personally i LOVED the hook and one shot stuffs but that's just me playing on casual mode for shits and giggles.

Man if only they had some kind of queue where you could play like…any role or something

YOOO THATS OUTSKIRTS THREAT SIGMA ENERGY LOCATED

How about you make other roles ….. fun?

Ahh blizzard, instead of making the Tank roll fun to play, they basically had to beg people to play the roll and offer bonuses because it’s such a miserable experience.

7:50 no? 8 hours? In a week? You mean 70 or 80 hours a week

I loved the analysis of the design of Roadhog contrasting with how the tanks in Overwatch were supposed to fundamentally work, but the whole “Roadhog mains are selfish pubstompers” part of the video felt more vitriolic then informative.

The thing is, on paper this seems like a really good idea, unless you have even a basic understanding of average player behavior. Oh wait.

This is why I like Valorant. If everyone picks a Duelist, you’ll probably lose, unless you’re just insane and the enemy team is not. If you don’t want to derank, you’ll balance out the team. Unless you are a one trick, you’ll have a couple agents in your pocket you can switch to, but you still have the freedom to do 5 Duelists. Just most people are smart enough to not let that happen because they have lost too many times. Also, a good incentive to not be shitty to your team is throwers. Instead of making people feel like shit and play worse, at the very least you can shut the fuck up and let them keep trying. Or else you are just down a player anyway.

role queue was just a terrible idea in the first place. shit should not exist for damn casual mode, probably not comp either tbh.

I was a rein main, ages ago when i actually played overwatch. Dropped Ow2 after a few weeks of playing

God do i miss seeing SR before queueing

Huh, this further supports the theory that Blizzard has been courting selfish PvP players. The Horde. Roadhog.

I wouldn’t even say the low rank population was the problem. It was the HIGH dps population. Even when Aaron Keller released the stats for OW1, there was only 1 role that was an outlier. Support queue times were not even that far behind tank. It’s not that people don’t want to play tank. It’s too many people who want to play DPS. Not to mention they have more heros than tank and support combined, so what do you expect.

Shouldve done what league did and added autofill, i was a tank player in OW and i never used that lmao.

This guy just… sucks. Even if he worked, he just seems kinda boring. His primary/secondary is the ONLY interesting thing in his kit, and the rest of it doesn’t seem to fit together at al.

Moral of the story: DPS Players are scum

Just add a third dps and dont balance for it, it'll be fine i swear :^)

No lying about pve killed it

They should let anyone play any class they want problem solved

What truly killed overwatch was not releasing any material to extend the world and then canceling the pve and not replacing it with anything.

Most players don't even understand the roles, much less want to swap between them.

You dont have to cut your video to a meme every 30 seconds. Im interested in the subject, not the jokes... not that funny anyway

Did they try? Idk... Make tanks fun to play? Just an idea.

I stopped playing 6 months after Overwatch first came out because I wasn't enjoying how it felt like they were only focused on making it an esport. Everything in this video sounds like madness to me! What is a queue? Why can't you switch characters mid game anymore? I used to really enjoy this game. I hate that I can't go back and play the original version that I liked.

Realizing I never ran into this problem as an infrequent, support-only player, and being VERY lost

I remember when they added the role select feature, that’s when I stopped playing for several years because it was a horrible system and I like being able to pick any characters I want

pp is just a symptom of role queue. queue times were good before then

I've never played Overwatch in my life but the second I heard you get 1 pass for losing my first thought was "Ok so throwing for 1 is easier and faster than trying for 6, that's the issue" how did the developers not

So hear me out. What if, instead of fucking with cues and making load times longer for other people.... INSTEAD, we just gave players more free currency for winning with less picked classes? That way, more people are incentivized to play Tank and win, but we're also not clogging up DPS cues with a billion people using passes at the exact same time?

Cool vid! Although I got a bit distracted in the beginning listening to the Rain World bgm. Always a bop.

"So you can get priority que for DPS" OH. Ohh shit, this... this is such a bad idea, holy fuck!

Obviously role queues and whatnot aren't a new thing when it comes to MMOs (WoW, FFXIV), although obviously there's a difference between RPGs and Team-based shooters. Then there's other games that use a similar incentive for people to use certain roles to help queues, like DbD. I can't help but want to see a study done into matters, and see how much they actually help - if at all - across the different genres.

It's odd, when I used to play (before stupid ass class limits), there was always a tank or two on the team. I honestly believe that blizzard killed the game when they locked roles.

While it's an excellent analysis (and isn't wrong) it does kinda rest on the assumption that role queue wasn't the inciting incident that caused the problem in the first place. Role queue is actively the single worst thing to happen to Overwatch, and what caused its eventual decline, and they KNEW this... that's why Jeff said again and again that role queue "isn't gonna happen" Obviously there's a lot of other issues, reworking heroes to the dismay of the players actually playing those hereos (Sym/Mercy/Rein). Classic mode has instant queues for a reason, and that is because all of those reworked and dismantled characters were more fun even if they were less balanced. But that's a pattern of issues, not a single issue.

Blizzard: We need to balance the role queues so people play more tank and support! Also Blizzard: _Continues to cycle new heroes so there will ALWAYS be more dps characters than the other roles_

When I'm in a terrible matchmaking competition and my opponent is overwatch:

Can't imagine making a game and then absolutely demanding that people play how you want, instead of how they want, to the point that you just end up encouraging all the worst possible aspects of online multiplayer. Too many DPS, too few tanks? Cool, new mode where tank has been replaced with another DPS. Problem solved.

Ah yes, just like Defunctland observed with Disneyland fast passes!

I think that part of the reason why all the other tanks have become roadhog is because with only 1 tank, you fundamentally don't have another tank there to cover your weaknesses. Solo tanks either have to be giant nigh unkillable raid bosses that make the game unfun for everyone with less than 300hp or they have to be boring walls that don't do anything except soak up damage until they inevitably explode. Either the solo tank is so lethal that you cannot chose to ignore them, or the best choice is to completely ignore the tank and kill the squishies.

widowmaker

That first second claim is crazy when theres release brig, release mauga, D.Va at any point in the game's life

Watching Overwatch allways felt faster than any other shooters, that explains why...

comp killed overwatch

“And when everyone’s priority, no one will be” - Syndrome