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Great detective work by Dr, R.C. on the ending of Mark plus!

Can't get enough Carrier.

Dr.MacDonald's work is awesome, as is RFW's. They differ most in how Q comes to be. Q is on the way out, but Dr. MacDonald tries makes use of his version of Q.

I'm not sure if Tabor's theory of Mark requires as improbable a coincidence as Carrier says it does. It's been demonstrated quite persuasively (as Carrier himself documents) that the author of Mark employs a chiasmic structure to his _entire_ narrative: the beginning matches the end, but also the second episode matches the second-to-last, the third matches the third-to-last, etc. So it would definitely be true that, if we knocked out the first and last episodes, the remainder would look like a perfectly coherent chiasmus. So the only coincidence is that the first episode is completely contained in the first page of the codex and the last episode is completely contained in the last page. How improbable is that, really? I don't know enough about ancient compositional practices to say.

carrier top man

The mood and tone of the end of Mark bears a close resemblance to the end of The Iliad. It's not the end of the whole play, but it is an appropriate, elegiac pause to close the curtain on the current act.

Dr Price is so entertaining and informative 👍

Is it unreasonable to consider that the bible had more teachings,and when king James wanted a bible built , that he had the best scribes, and translators, the the nicean council picked their most beloved cohesive correspondences, and voted on the bit of doctrines in the kjv. But, also king james took parts out,so he could get king james in more bodily situations, so he could seem less sinner, and more in the pervsion, of his perspective Intellectually. And, king James version, is lacking in the apocryphal text that,in my opinion give more fullness to Christ, but the scribes employed came from the same school of though?!

Imagine "scholars" a thousand years from now claiming there was an unknown O document which contained details about Oz, which L Frank Baum and later Ruth Plumly Thompson and others after Baum's death MUST have used because there is no way they could have all made this stuff up and have it match details.

I love listening to carrier!!

The Mark loop idea makes sense - it could explain the fishermen dropping everything . it's like their 5th lap. (This last thing I heard in other discussion)

So glad to hear a well respected and highly intelligent scholar reject the hypothetical Q source. One thing that is interesting to me is that if you look at the time and location that the mythicist argument was first introduced to the church you see that the Q hypothesis came about shortly thereafter. I think that the Q hypothesis was possibky developed as a way to try to claim there was another "independent source" which would clearly bolster the historicity arguments.

17:30 If there was a Q it would relieve a lot of headaches for a lot of people. But that's not the basis for hypothesizing there was a Q. The hypothesis has to result _from_ suggestive evidence, not the other way around. Hypothesizing a Q with no basis other than that it would provide certain answers related to the synoptic gospels is circular reasoning. The subsequent search for Q also risks confirmation bias. I'm not the expert but I suspect Matthew and Luke both knew each other's work, largely agreed, but held some slightly divergent views. Anything that is hypothesized to have come from Q could just as well have been made up by Matthew and Luke, and/or could have come from a number of random sources. In those first few decades there were probably many stories, and many people telling stories, about whom we know nothing because there were so few written records in the first place, and any that did exist didn't survive.

Hell yes!!! I love the new Bible Geek podcast, these are TRUE Bible studies! We love Dr. Price. Thanks for your awesome show.

Dr Price! Let's go! 😎

Thank you.

Dr Bob is THE MAN! 👍

Dr Price has been on 🔥 in looking forward to getting "Wholy Bible." It seems to have excellent research 👍

Dr Price, please consider the possibility that Paul and Simon were father and son.

👍👍👍

Great content!

Japanese traditions has the king of demons expelling lesser demons. They fear him. I cant see any difference from yahshua since his name comes from Yah, who is lucifer/prometheus.

Dr Price is always amazing, a true, independent scholar.

Excellent - a real pleasure listening to two academics having a friendly and intelligent discussion about such thought-provoking subject matter.

Dr Price... Let's Go!!😎

So great to hear Dr Price dissecting and analising the New Testament. Thank you.

Edward, thank u for continuing to have Dr Price! 👍👍

Dr. Price is a national treasure! SO good to hear from him, always! Thank you for posting this discussion - enjoy your podcast very much!

Earlier in G. Mk. , no one dipped in the bowl with Jesus at supper either. I think this and the ending are tells this Gospel is the Xtian mystery cult's original exoteric myth for outsiders and catechumens.