Видео

Hades, um... He quite literally kidnapped his niece, tricked her into trapping herself there, and snatched her away from the surface world for 1/3 of the year(in the version I read), every year, and stockholmed Persephone into eventually liking him instead of just wooing her at the beginning like a normal person. I don't think I'll ever understand the obsession with this particular couple. To me, personally, it feels very creepy, wrong, and not at all romantic, but if that's what floats your boat, more power to you, I suppose.

thanks for adding the bit about the erasure of greek scholars studying greece even now, it is quite insane how brit-centric the classics genre is

This is so incredible! I wish I could draw like you

If the only people who can write about Greek mythology are Greeks, then I believe that is limiting. It leads to a situation where less art will be made because you can only write about your particular culture. It means that Mexicans can't write about England, and the French can't write about Poland. Yes, these people aren't from those particular countries, but if they have always had an interest and a love for their history and culture, then why shouldn't they be able to write about it?

this kind of stuff is really upsetting as well cause even if you like, take five minutes to look you'll see that there ARE, in fact, ancient greek myths that "center women" the way they seem to perceive it. Like classic girlboss powerful women tropes.. The stories of the amazons and Penthesilea. Atalanta. Most stories involving athena. Literally any goddesses actually. Like they're there

What an incredibly well-spoken and thought out, articulate, mature video! Phenomenal.

What I hate most about modern mythology stories is the implementation of "morality" that is kind of implemented in today's culture in the first place (and which I'm not really a fan of, we've gone back to such ridiculous ones). I' not denying the life lessons the mythology implicitly holds, yet I think the vision on myths has become so moralistic that it loses the interest it had, the way it showed humanity's flaws without much judgement, and an interesting way of telling. Modern mythology books do not have such aura, and which is why I'm all very lukewarm about them (that, snd the misinterpretation in many retellings, because I feel like litterature has become much more of profit than the product of books of qualities.)

I don't read new writers, i don't trust them

Circe by Madeline Miller is far my favorite Greek Myth retelling, next to her The Song of Achilles💓

Only skimmed through the transcript so far, but I do look askance at the evidently recent idea of Ares being an explicit protector of women. As though Athens (our main source) would have suffered that. I see how the idea came about-no more than one ravishment, quite a bit better than most other male theoi, and what he did to Poseidon’s son-but I doubt that would suffice. I’m more interested in seeing how much less misogynistic his native Thrakia was, especially given that the Skythians eventually wound up next door. Obvious missing knowledge for me, however-whether Thrakia and Skythia liked each other in the first place.

25:57 no it is factually incorrect go research it properly its again trying to shove agenda down normal peoples throata

I'm sure many of these authors like genuinely want to tell a good story and have women be like girl bossing in it or whatever but I think a lot of it's just it's a niche where the people who read within that Niche will read a lot so it's kind of guaranteed middling sales Where is if you write a Syfy or future fantasy book it could happen where zero people even know it exists besides you and the publisher

You cannot culturally appropriate the ancient Greek culture. Not in that sense. It was the foundation for western civilization anyway. Modern greek culture and identity are heavily related to the Byzantium and Christianity.

If you made jesus female, the story would still be nonsense, and the ideology would still be deadly. If you rewrite Greek myth more from a female point of view, it is still nonsense, and the ideology is still deadly. Why the fascination with profoundly stupid ancient ideas about fate and the planet? There were many many people then who did not believe, who sometimes did things to demonstrate the futility of theistic hooey. They were often killed for their trouble. Greek myth is also not somehow the eternal cosmic property of all white people? It has its own specificity and culture, is not your toy. You are probably not greek, person reading this. definitely not ancient. and you have probably not considered the relationship between these stories and the society which produced them… you would not like it.

Seems most all are "deconstructionists" just as their Marxist trainings have taught them to be.

Small correction: pique is pronounced 'peek' not 'pike'

Phenomenal choice of background music towards the end by the way. ❤️ Rachmaninov

As a Greek, thank you, THANK YOU, for part 4. Who gets to say they have a claim on our myths?? Who gets richer over them?? Not us, that's for certain. It's usually wither American or British authors, their only exposure to our myths being through Percy Jackson, or even worse some decade old Tumblr post, and think they can speak of them. I have a bone to pick with Percy Jackson as well, where are the Greek people in the numerous, multimillion dollar projects it has given life to? Where are the Greek actors in its new tv show (besides one single man) while well known non-Greeks profit over it? Why are spelling mistakes at its Greek signs? It really pains me, having people announce (not ask, because why would they ask) claim over our past. "Of course the actors should be American, it makes sense in the context!" Anyways.

Phaedra enrages me like nothing else tbh

I’m personally of the camp that likes Hades & Persephone as α good, strong relationship, especially among the mess that is the Greek pantheon’s tangled, largely-nonconsentual love life… …but just because you like that version of the story doesn’t mean you *have* to act like having your child suddenly _vanish into another dimension_ without warning is somehow an unreasonable issue for Demeter to take? Why is it considered helicopter parenting to want to _know where your freaking kid is???_

the best retelling of hades and persephone is the phantom of the opera by gaston leroux, it’s really well done and it doesn’t fall into cliché, lots of psychological aspects are explored

I read Natalie Haynes's Stone Blind, but not her other books. But Stone Blind just offered a softer re-telling of Medusa, by using multiple perspectives and focusing on the relationship she had with her sisters Stheno and Euryale. The end of Medusa stayed the same. If anything, it was a re-telling that shifted the perspective of how Medusa as a figure has become a monster in media throughout time, but you felt sympathy for her in this book, but the fate of medusa stayed the same. I enjoyed it. Haynes did major in Classics and does Journalism, so she knows the orginal source material. There was stuff I didn't even know or realize and I was looking up things, while reading it, which some people might find annoying, but I enjoy learning something new.

If they want a Feminist, Girl Boss story Atalanta is right there! A fierce warrior who was on the level of the Argonauts

You know. This somewhat reminds me of how Disney is almost always redeeming or casting a sympathetic light to their female villains but never their male villains (even if it would be obvious that some of the males would be perfect to either redeem (Prince Hans) or cast a sympathetic light to (Dr. Facilier)

One minor quibble: The Greeks did an awful lot of colonizing themselves. The Hellenization of the Near East continued from Alexander to the Eastern Roman Empire (also note that under the ERE, most Greek-speakers, even in the Peloponnese, thought of themselves as Roman, and continued to do so under the Ottomans). Adonis was appropriated by the Greeks from Levantine cultures, for example. The Phoenicians were colonized by the Greeks pretty intensely-- look at what Alexander did to Tyre. (Yes I know he was Macedonian, but his empire and many of the Diadochi were Hellenic). Egypt and Persia were ruled by a Greek noble class for centuries. Then there's the issue that so much of what we know, or think we know, about Greek mythology was codified by Romans like Ovid and Hyginus. The story of Cupid and Psyche (Not Eros and Psyche), which many people think of as a core "Greek" myth, was recorded in the 2nd century CE by Romanized Berber poet Apuleius. We can't know how authentically Hellenic these kinds of stories were coming from the Latin west. Greece has suffered a lot through the centuries, and I understand the need for the Greek reclamation of Greek culture. I am saying that the dissemination of Greek myth, or what is understood to be Greek myth, was not exclusively appropriation-- sometimes it was an imposition.

The vilification of Demeter has always driven me nuts, along with the dismissive attitude toward Hades' less pleasant aspects.

I heard around that the Percy Jackson novels have the Persephone and Hades """romance""" and, yeah, the more I think about it....a bunch of people who "love" the "romance" never actually read the original story nor do they like to acknowledge Demetor's and Persephone's hatred against Hades.

I just wanted to say that this was beautiful

I hate Feminist retellings so much

At the end of the day I'm just glad the gay community has learned from Patroclos' mistakes enough to be wary of bisluts.

I’m currently reading Circe and the reason why i love it is because it’s literally as it says it is: a retelling of her life. No added drama or emotions or anything, just detailed and descriptive retellings of her life. That’s it. And that’s why i love it so much.

I want more goofy stories inspired by Greek myth like Nice Shot Cupid. It’s just dumb but in a goofy way my child brain liked. And yes, I have no intention on going back and rereading it to see that it probably isn’t very good.

This is why I respect Jay. He doesn’t pretend that Epic is meant to be some ultra accurate retelling of the Odyssey, it is just inspired by it, along with video games, anime, and a bunch of other nerd shit.

This is EXACTLY why I couldn't get through silence of the girls. Politically, I agree with the author, but the book felt like (admittedly, very well written) lecture on women's roles in history instead of an actual novel. For the life of me I don't understand why she chose first person perspective, it could have been so easy to keep the musings for the narrator and allow the protagonist to have an actual character

I feel that there is an EXTREME oversaturation of Greek/hellenic myth based books circulating today. Some people my age seem to love it, but I really just think it’s cheesy at this point. I don’t hate these myths but I hear about them so often in disingenuous formats that I barely care for them any more. I don’t want to listen to 20 people cover the same song, I want 20 different songs on similar topics, if you get what I mean

This is coming from someone who hasn't finished the video, and I will finish it, but I will say I have never convinced that there are boundaries to the kinds of stories we should tell. Even if they belong to another culture.

counterpoint: no

YOU GUYS , DO YOU KNOW WHAT 𝐈𝐒 A GOOD GREEK MYTH STORY THOUGH ??????? 𝐏𝐉𝐎 𝐒𝐄𝐑𝐈𝐄𝐒 BY RICK RIORDAN . GO READ IT , TRUST MEEE 🤞🤞🤞🤞 IT'S 𝐒𝐎 GOOD .

Do you know my "favourite" part of these retellings? IT MAKES RESEARCH HARDER and spreads a shit ton of misinformation. Do you have any idea how hard it is to find someone who knows Medusa's fake/Roman myth isn't actually Greek mythology these days?? Everyone is like "oh Poseidon/Athena did" THEY DIDN'T??? They're not even related to Medusa in actual Greek tellings. This happens with a lot of myths unfortunately. Misinformation and boom, now you have to go through many different sources and books just to make sure it's not another fake myth or Roman version mistaken for Greek

“Feminist retelling” and it’s just insane mischaracterization and basically a shitty fanfic

“Feminist retelling “ so basically ignoring the possible reaction of a mythological character’s reaction to the current age shes living in and situations and replacing it with imagined reactions the “writer” would have if she was in her spot. Lord Jesus am I done with these degenerates who constantly have a need to show how important they are (they aint) through other mediums and in a subtle way.

Have you listened to EPIC: The Musical? If so, what are your thoughts? Great video btw!

The only greek myth retelling i’ve seen that was good was EPIC the musical. *Let me say this again: a musical is better at retelling a myth than a book.*

honestly the main problem i had with even some of the more well written ones is what i feel sometimes to be the unnecessary prolonging of women's suffering- i love Circe by Madeline Miller because it emphasises Circe's narrative is beyond just her suffering. whereas i feel that others... like, as someone who identifies as female i don't wake up every morning and think about my oppression. honestly, after Circe, i feel like a lot of authors have just aimed to reproduce what Madeline Miller did- highlight the misogyny of Greek mythology and classical scholarship in overlooking female characters- without most of the nuance.

Such an excellent video that I feel incredibly lucky to have stumbled upon

Just got to the part where all the works discussed in the first 40 minutes or so are condemned as appropriative. Since I haven't read a one of them, and don't interact with Greek mythos in my daily life, I am apparently getting off clean. Hooray!

Oh ... Y'all are terfs...

emily wilson's translation is degrading. just babying the audience. "i made it a bit less accurate just so you can understand 💜" am i stupid? am i stupid that i would need baby talk, a watered down, less accurate version? if the reader is smart they'd search about the context anyway, this just gives the puree right to the reader's lips, thinking they couldn't even do their own tiny research. "Greeks". you know so much about the work but you are both snobby and passionless about it.

This video was, to me, simply incredible. You managed to cover a wide range of topics and the due diligence they deserve (though I am glad for the amendment in the pinned comment cause it does add to your point). As I’ve read more older texts, I’ve started to realise more that this idea that the past was all discrimination, women being silenced, minorities being hated, etc is just not true. The past is not a place I’d like to find myself, that remains true, I quite like certain human rights that are more recent, but it’s disrespectful to older to ancient literature to think it was full of ideas we’d frown upon today. While studying Much Ado, half of what we covered were the surprisingly feminist themes. As you said yourself, Greek mythology is intrinsically quite queer, this wasn’t something unknown to them. Sappho’s poetry was not burned by her people, it was burned centuries later by the Catholic Church (if I recall correctly). It’s a harmful and out of touch notion to think it was that black and white, that they were… idek what to call it, ‘anti-woke’? I feel like I’m forgetting an obvious word. Again, the original story of Briseis shows they very much held different beliefs to us about what was right and wrong, but it’s more nuanced than it’s given credit for. I do like that you included a, to me, rather untouched subject at the end with the relationship of mythology to the current people of Greece, however uncomfortable it is to examine for most mythology nerds (and that’s me included). I am not Greek, but I am from a country that for much of history, was not its own country. Our neighbours had a tendency for wiping us off the map. Stories from there are not nearly so widespread but I can imagine well the frustration and hurt of stories and history getting misinterpreted and ill-represented, taken from the context that clarifies them. There is certainly an obligation for us to remember the relationship these myths have to real, living, people. Anyways, just some thoughts I had by the end of this, really enjoyed.

I almost cried when I saw the title.(I'm making a book about Greek mythology, not a retelling, just something like PJO.) im scrolling through all the comments to see what people agree with, and want in the retellings, so when i write i can include so i can make all the greek mythology fans happy, if they read the book. Ps: Reply the this comment snd tell me what you want to see more in books about greek mythology or what you like about them.