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They’re all false gospel preachers, if they preach baptismal regeneration

Amen! Latest numbers saw 20 million just prior to the pandemic and 14 million during the pandemic added to the Catholic Church. I don't know the numbers for the Orthodox. We currently have 50 inquierers enrolled in OCIA just at my parish alone.

This was such a fun conversation

Its not far fetched to say that evangelicals created cancel culture.

Christians are the worst at cancel culture.

We shouldn't credit the second great awakening because it was anything but that. you can look at the fruit that was not produced from it and the church in the US today still suffers from it.

I think I've come to a point when I'm starting to push back on the idea that people are not a good reason to leave a church. Church is where we find community with God's people and with God, together. When the church fails to behave like children of the Lord, that's a problem and they (we) should be held accountable for that.

Also, the culture doesnt dictate what it means to be a man or a woman. When we reference the culture, that includes Christian culture as well.

there is a lot of cherry picking on what biblical manhood and womanhood is. We need to consider all of scripture when we are talking about this.

Why do we need to presuppose a god? Why would we presupposse this god is the god of the bible? We can presupposse anything we want

The huge problem is that the Christian worldview is totally inconsistent with the teachings of Jesus Christ. In fact they are poles apart . Jesus teaches that we suffer from many illusions about reality, which prevent us from knowing what reality is. Christianity has tried, and failed to connect his teachings with the Old Testament worldview, and has made the huge error of trying to bring the truth that Jesus teaches into our existing illusion of reality ..

The atheist worldview has no basis for its morality? Did you really say that? It leads me to wonder if you've ever actually spoken with an atheist. Or perhaps you just don't understand the adaptations of social animals and how societies work. Maybe you haven't noticed that most of the people who have ever lived on earth managed to coexist within their own societies having never heard of your magical sky wizard. How can you be so intellectually incurious as to not wonder At the Empires and civilizations that grew and flourished before Yahweh handed down his weird set of moral virtues. Atheists having moral values is a contradiction? How intellectually dishonest

All apologetics is about winning an argument. It purports to be an argument with an unbeliever or with unbelief itself but it is really an argument that exists within the apologist. As you noted, Christianity - and I would extend this to all religions - is doctrinally inconsistent in terms of the range of beliefs it requires one to hold. It is also inconsistent with the methodological assumptions we use routinely to adequately navigate through the world. Both of these inconsistencies, internal and external, result in dystonic states commonly called 'cognitive dissonance'. The believer who wants to remain a believer is confronted by the need to dissipate this dystonia and this is the birth and sole value of apologetics.

Why not just use the observable, testable effects of magic in the real world? Then you could make an non self-referential argument.

i would argue there is a time and place for all methods.

There is nothing that you can't presuppose. To presuppose something means that you're not bothered about determining something to be factual before you embrace it. You haven't done the work or couldn't be bothered to demonstrate first to yourself that what you believe is true. It shares this problem with faith. There is also nothing you couldn't accept on faith, making it an unreliable method for determining the truth of something.

Some folks seem to take Jon's question to assumes that total numbers of Evangelicals are declining. I don't know if that's the case or not, and didn't take that to be an assumption in his question. There can be a discernible exit of some, while total numbers are increasing. Pentecostal numbers are have reportedly been on the rise for several decades, but I don't technically include them as Evangelicals.

...because Evangelicalism is largely modernist innovation, shallow theologically, and largely entertainment...I'm a primitivist (churches of Christ)...

Its always hard to guage what content is going to get the most engagement. Its never the ones that you think its going to be. This is one of them.

Y'all need to relax, lol.

there's literally been icons in every century from the 1st on. Maybe look into that.

Drive through Bethesda, Md and you will see a rainbow flag in front of over half the Protestant Churches, it is now a religion that will reflect society rather than try to influence society. I recently converted to Catholicism because it it based, unchanged much since its creation in 32 AD.

8 out of 10 Evangelicals voted for Trump. No good tree can bear bad fruit.

youtube.com/@harmonyharmonyharmony?si=WLu2b6O0aEWj8jrD This channel is slated to drop a documentary on holy icons that will clear up any confusion and false narratives about the practice being an “accretion.”

People are leaving Protestantism and Converting to Holy Orthodoxy because Protestantism is false and Orthodox Christianity is true ❤️🇺🇸☦️

If anyone thinks that it is "incontestable" that icon veneration is an accretion should watch Seraphim Hamilton and Michael Garten's responses to Dr. Ortlund.

The Roman Catholic church didn't author the bible. It was authored by the Holy Spirit, penned by the apostles, and assembled by a unified church. The RCC doesn't even remotely obey the book it claims to have brought into existence, thereby nullifying those claims.

evangelicals have used a catholic book the bible to create their own modern religion

Would be worth addressing the claims you’re making with substantive argument and not just assertion if you want to influence peoples perspective

For the same reason people are leaving islam. It is false.

Wow, a lot of insecure baseless hate.

"Why are fleeing Evangelicalism" ??? Really ? If that is true, why are people packing the parking lots of the Evangelical churches near me ?, loaded with former Roman Catholics. I'm an Anglican and we have a tiny church loosing/fleeing to the Evangelical Churches. In my experience, the Evangelicals are booming. They even built a new church in a neighboring town to start a new plant church.

We need to be aware of this and apply it to nearly every area of thought.

American orthodoxy in general is strange and horrifying from anyone growing up outside of the West. It's almost like watching a disturbing movie watching old widows give their husbands wealth to dancing psychopaths

You gay!

I say big words too I smart also. Except when you mispronounce them. 😂

I know big words

mucho spicy

Spicy

I was Mormon, then God saved me by his grace to become Christian. I spent a lot of time studying Reformed covenant theology. After study and prayer, I felt 1689 confessional Particular Baptists were more consistent than Westminster confessional Presbyterianism in their application of covenant theology, believing in a regenerate church according to Hebrews 8, etc. But I was well aware there were no Calvinists and no Baptists in church history. I spent a lot of time thinking, "if most Christians didn't believe what I do...maybe I'm wrong?" But I still believed it because it is how I read the Bible. After years of study and prayer, I've come to a confessional Lutheran understanding of sacraments, salvation, etc., as taught in God's Word. It is comforting to be able to look back on church history and find comrades and friends rather than doctrinal foes.

I can definitely say that God did not predestine me to be a Calvinist.

There’s nothing in the Bible the gospel that needs to be changed they don’t preach the good news to others

im a filipino but tagalog bible is corrupted and God lead me to read kjv bible i believe that God use english language because english language is the most spoken universal language of this world🙏✝️🌎.

Repentance means change of mind Unbeliefe to belief That simple.

Shameful

As our timeless "Mother of God" (mother and son) iconography suggests, matriarchal and patriarchal spirituality are inseparable and coexist through a fundamental understanding of God's eternal cyclical nature. Represented by the snake in many creation myths, the living cycle has a trinity of a beginning (head), a middle and end (tail). As above so below, the sexes were created in the image of God's cyclical nature where Mother is the head and opening to all beginnings and Father holds the tail to all endings (through which the sowing of seeds allow for the next great matriarchal rebirth).The joining of the two (symbolized by the Ouroborus or the marriage ring) is the sacred union needed in assuring the creation and continuation of new life cycles. To speak of the present day God as "Our Father" is simply an admission to our collective positioning within the bigger cycle. As all mothers have direct experience with the creator quality of birthing, so is the direct experience of rebirthing the divinity within (baptism) belong to that which is spiritually matriarchal. (John 3, verse 3-8). Sekhmet statues (ancient Egyptian) carry most of their weight in symbolic memory of what was a mother culture dedicated to the direct experience of baptism. As the leg shaped hairlocks extend from maternal breasts to the womb of rebirth, the lioness's head proportions are such that they highlight the bust of a second animal figure. The Lioness's ears as eyes and eyes as nose (nostrils) brings to life the figure of a reptile. 'Neath the halo headress of the solar egg, the lioness's egg fertilization process being internal (Set) and the reptile's egg fertilization process being external (Setting), such being key components to the safety of entering the trans-egoic or "born again" state. The life threatening fear associated with the predatory nature of a lion and/or crocodile encounter are reflective of the intense ego death experiences associated with the transpersonal awakening process. In spiritually matriarchal times, illumination could be seen as wearing the false beard (ancient Egyptian funerary "ego" death mask) as the high state of cyclical self knowing; high awareness of both our upper matriarchal half and our lower (later) patriarchal half (compared with a mini lower body replica, an "as above so below" tail end beard extension); in full recognition of her civilizational Underworld; her inevitable cyclical destiny. The male pharaoh wears his beard tapered in reverse, indicating a pointing upwards towards the patriarchal head, divine representative of God's tail end cycle. Mary's anointing and wiping of Jesus's feet with her hair can then be seen as "Head to tail" (toe) imagery as she descends her matriarchal head to his patriarchal feet, thus reenacting the high understanding of the divine cyclical process. (John 12, verse 3) To carry the Ankh (now the female symbol ♀️) was perhaps to symbolically carry that upper and lower understanding. As the upper matriarchal womb symbolised the fertile birthing of civilization, below, the now Christian cross is carried to place emphasis on the lower (later) "End Times" Father principle of the great cycle. Lord Ganesha, the elephant headed Hindu diety, displays a cyclical head to trunk symbolism and points to the Mother head of his matriarchal elephant society. Ganesha (like the elephant) wears God's cyclical nature on his face. A whole temple was dedicated to Hathor (ancient Egyptian diety), who is the matriarchal "Uterus" personified. ruclips.net/video/J0m0zJSEFK0/видео.html "See all women as mothers, serve them as your mother. when you see the entire world as the mother, the ego falls away. See everything as Mother and you will know God." - Neem Karoli Baba "My son, keep thy father's commandment and forsake not the law of thy mother" - Proverbs 6 : 20

This was a great conversation! I'm one of those pesky Orthodox-leaning Anglicans, but I get your frustration with the tradition, I wish we were more uniform as well.

Some of the worst people I know go to church,they go because they know they are no good,that's why they go to church.but the church can't help them because 90% of the people who run the church have no morals,and change gods words to suit themselves.so it's the blind leading the blind.

Great episode. Very interesting comparisons. I am an LCMS convert who grew up Southern Baptist and was briefly somewhat Reformed. I spent a year and a half in a PCA church (and another year and a half in an ARP church which is pretty similar). I have never been to an ACNA church but I have been to an Episcopal church and my friend’s ACC (Continuing Anglican) church a couple of times. It is always neat to see different theologies and liturgies.

I can definitely help