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But I did, though. Groups, POI V & H were all pretty consistent by bullet weight. group POI V POI H 55 avg 2.65 -1.99 1.49 60s avg 2.24 -2.09 1.09 70s avg: 2.05 -1.22 0.80 tot avg: 2.39 -1.88 1.22 I prefer it right near the back anyway and it's already moved back. Where it's at here on this day, was me fiddling with the magnifier and where the dot was most visible, while not so big as to cover the bullseye by 4x. If I decide I want to find an actual accurate ammo, will surely be a handload and a scope put on it for that testing. 3-shot groups isn't me trying to find out if it is sub-MOA rifle with shit factory ammo. I'm looking for velocities and any general trends and that was achieved. It's an M&P, not a BCA nor a BCM. Where it was at this day was just fine for what I was comparing.

I did find what you mentioned...though, I'm not sure I understand the allure. Wouldn't I just want the LC Charger, instead? Or is it less money for someone like me, who's replaced the Ruger 57 for carry with my M&P? And some way to get other use from my Ruger?

@@ShastaBean I just recalled you had the Ruger 57 and thought I would mention it to you.👍 I don't really see the advantage either.🤷‍♂ But I don't really get the modular thing.🤷‍♂

@@Disastrous.Affect thanks - I'd rather know about it, than not...and who knows what the future may hold? 👍

2000 yards

My 16" goal was 2400 fps ...so, having rounds exceed 2500 fps and no pierced or blown primers (yet) is gravy. There's some more room in the case - so, into the 10.x's I'll have to keep advancing, and see what it will ultimately do. The LX is every bit, if not more, exciting. I've wanted to buy the Garmin for QUITE a while, but held off because of the need to export data to my laptop and from what I know, the Garmin lacks that ease. Chronograph uncertainty or limitations brought my .338 lapua testing to a screeching-halt. All of my velocities with the OG DLX were brought into question and even after buying 2 more, and 2 MagnetoSpeeds, wasn't able to have confidence in readings or having to test with something fixed to the barrel affecting POI or groups. No beuno. I will eventually test each of the 3 DLXs now that I have confidence that the LX or Magneto will show which one is most accurate. Nothing like hurling $5+/rd ammo downrange and pretending I can calculate turret adjustments to hit steel at 700 yards...when the velocity is wrong!! ahh!

Wow, you’ve done something of a chrono deep dive. Yup, I doubt I’ll ever go the magnetospeed route. I have a good friend that shoots a long range magnum rig from the hip to get his numbers. Not good, he does fun matches, and his barrel might be done at a thousand rounds. The prices also, look set to tumble. I ruled out the FX True Ballistic, but that thing’s dropped to tempting range. I’ve been out of it for a bit, but there’re some light kickers that will stretch out to the 700-1000 yd range, that’re calling to me, lol. I’ve gotten to the point, that I much prefer to watch the the entire shot in the scope. Fun stuff SB.

@@craigm1954 The Magneto has its advantages. I didn't buy the big labradar because of how much it cost when I was 1st looking for velocities. I really only wanted the .338 lapua speeds, so I'd be outdoors anyway, and the DLX seemed a good value. But handloading leads to handloading leads to handloading lol. And when 5.7 invaded my world, that was something I could shoot indoors - meaning the DLX was a no-go for that. Plus those optical types struggle mightily with small & fast projectiles like 5.7. And the sun being in certain positions, can affect them, too. I also read the OG Labradar would pick up other shooters, especially at smaller indoor lanes. That happened quite a bit with my LX, once I set it to pistol. That's pretty frustrating - especially now that I've seen the LX doesn't do well with rapid-fire. If someone shoots just before me, I'll lose my reading. So the Magneto v3 has ability to mount to a pistol or rifle Pic-rail. I won't see others' bullets. The Magneto v1 doesn't have a data transfer method. Literally had to scroll through them 1 by 1 and type them in. We've seen TTO & TBP have an issue with Garmin when shooting gel; and it needs certain distance to get a read. So they are shooting gel blocks from like 30 feet, or whatever lol. That makes placement super tricky and that's the last thing you need in blocks. So they do all have pros & cons. Bottom-line is. I am glad I have all the options and able to double-up (or triple) and make sure I get a read. The LX definitely closes a couple o gaps. Failing to to get a velocity can really suck sometimes. Bigly.

@@craigm1954 Oh, and I don't know how far out it's capable...but I found the LX has v0 (muzzle) and v1 that you can set for a reading while shooting; to something like 5 yd...but can also change it after the data is in there and exported, to something else like 25 yd, and it updates with the new output and can export that. Then change it again to something else, and export it again - so you in effect are getting your velocities at those other distances. I think the OG LR has v0 - v4 which is same concept. This might actually allow me to figure out the B.C. of the Liberty ammo. heh. Which I am guessing to be ~.06 ish. Not good.

@@ShastaBean I wonder if that V1 on the LX is actually a second dopler reading? The company should play that up, but on their website it's described as a single reading. Lol, chase the BC of your favorite 338 load?

👍It's going to force me to reassess all of the 40 grain loads!

@ yup! Here for it!

@@shooterreadyschannel9254 It also puts the 45 grain Controlled Chaos on the table...as well as the Sierra Varminter. Not only with the rifle, but potentially the pistol, too. Been wanting to find something for a bit deeper in the magazine - that will give some deeper penetration but still open or fracture, reliably. ~1950 is on the edge for the TSX. In pork, it only slightly opened, although pretty devastating, still. I haven't tested ~2000 yet. For some reason I'd feel guilty or greedy getting 2000 fps out of the pistol with a 45 grain, even if it doesn't show signs of pressure. From this small sample, it looks quite possible.

@@ShastaBean you’re on the edge of 2,000ft/s with the Barnes. The bullet is very well made and woukd reliably penetrate deeply. Since you’re getting 1,980ft/s from the M&P, my guess is you’d be over 2,000ft/s with a ruger 5.7 or FN 5.7. I just prefer the M&P for recoil and how the brass is never overworked. Just wish the magazine allowed for seating out further. Would like to see your results on pork too.

@@shooterreadyschannel9254 I'm with you on the M&P...the brass in the photo can pretty clearly see the difference in the amount the shoulders moved. The LC has puny little necks while the M&P has much longer. I can nearly guarantee I won't be loading those LC cases again. That'd be like shooting the Hornady brass 🔕

Turning over this stone has opened a whole can of worms on what max might be with these other powders vs what I initially derived using the True Blue...especially with the 40 gr loads, and perhaps even something like the 37 gr REX. Wish I had a range in my basement. Wish I had a basement.

@ you know….rounds don’t penetrate through about 12” of sand…. There are boxes and setups for sand traps…but the ventilation is a no go sadly. But maybe copper bullets isn’t as bad.

@@triggerbarPhD pretty sure my neighbors might frown upon such activity, though

@@ShastaBean maybe, but it's in your basement, how load could that be? These and more are the thoughts running through my own head.. ;-)

@ but I don't have a basement. Hope the hearing-protection act actually passes someday.

I carry my .380 pretty much every time I walk out the door, but it's always a secondary or tertiary. As you mention, the pocket is key. I can put my hand in my pocket and have a hold of it and very quick to react, if needed. Pulling up my shirt and handing my IWB carry is not always viable like that. Like when walking around a corner where javelina can suddenly appear (and have), but not having me looking like some threat to others, who are maybe outside walking or sitting on a porch. I haven't given the 2.0 much consideration because of it being striker-fired. The thing I like most about my 1.0 is the DAO and very long & heavy trigger-pull (8-10lbs). I did finally get a Sticky-holster for it, but I used to have it just in my pocket, as is, with safety off. And virtually no worry about any unintended discharge. Virtually. I'd not feel that way about lighter, shorter pull striker-fire. The safety is way too hard to manipulate on it to have to worry about that in an emergency. I can guarantee that I'd never be able to hit anything at distance like you described. Not w/o some weird luck. If I have to shoot at that distance, I'd be relying on the 5.7 or 9mm or 10mm...if for some reason it did require the BG? I'd be screwed. lol. Wildly inaccurate with that trigger and such a shorty. Hopefully that never happens!! I think I am going to move towards including the HST. Not sure why/how I've passed on it for this long. I am going to give the R.I.P. a try into pork, though, along with the G9. And the HS deep is pretty solid. I haven't gotten too wrapped up in .380 performance, though...considering how it's really not ever likely to be my primary, other than maybe walking to the mailbox but I usually have IWB holstered, anyway even to that. The Critical Defense was my 1st purchase in .380 and carried that for quite a while. Then Speer GD...now I'm all over the map. And there's probably not enough difference - to make a difference, as Paul would say.

chamber: Raptor 30gr 2250 fps 337 ft# Chaos 32gr 2175 fps 336 ft# Raptor 30gr 2250 fps 337 ft# Chaos 32gr 2175 fps 336 ft# Hammer 33gr 2150 fps 339 ft# REX 37gr 2000 fps 329 ft# GPM 36gr 2100 fps 353 ft# Speer 40 gr 1830 fps 298 ft# BlackFang 34gr 2140 fps 346 ft# BlackFang 34gr 2140 fps 346 ft# Raptor 30gr 2250 fps 337 ft# Chaos 32gr 2175 fps 336 ft# Hammer 33gr 2150 fps 339 ft# Hammer 33gr 2150 fps 339 ft# REX 37gr 2000 fps 329 ft# Speer 40 gr 1830 fps 298 ft# Raptor 30gr 2250 fps 337 ft# Hammer 33gr 2150 fps 339 ft# REX 37gr 2000 fps 329 ft# GPM 36gr 2100 fps 353 ft# REX 37gr 2000 fps 329 ft# Speer 40 gr 1830 fps 298 ft# GPM 36gr 2100 fps 353 ft# Handloads = Raptor, Chaos, Hammer, REX I might end up putting a couple of the 45 gr TSX in, once I finish testing it.

that was where it barely expanded - but close enough to the edge that it blew out the side. Tells me it's still plenty effective, even if it doesn't fully expand. That means it's nearly a viable option from the pistol if only 1950 fps needed and I can accomplish that. tbd Another channel (Triggerbar_philospher) dropped an elk with a .308 TSX that was similar looking expansion; from being down around ~2200 fps at its distance I think was ~275 yards.

9.0 looks far below max, at this point. I'll go through 9 - 10 by .1 and see how things look, and up from 10.x, .1 at a time, until I see a popped or pierced primer and then back of ~. 2 grains. If 2500 fps is safely possible, then I'll have perhaps one of the most useful 5.7 rifle rounds there is. Even at 2400 fps, it means it's viable to ~100 yards.

@@ShastaBean 5.7 is already viable out well past 100 IMHO... Where did you get dies? What do you do about lacquer?

@@ShastaBean That jump in velocity at 9.5 gr of H110, looks interesting and safe, at least for now. It may not work out, but 2470ish seems very doable.

@@breckfreeride can't really toss a blanket statement over the whole cartridge....especially beyond 100 yd+. Velocity loss will take the TSX below the threshold where it won't expand and this has been a can-O'-worms 🪱🪱🪱🥫 for me. It's why I started shooting rounds into pork-shoulder. The TSX did not open in the clear gel at ~2200 fps. I nearly dismissed it entirely after that. Instead, I saw one at the grocery store and thought, "why not?". Now it's basically proved to me that many highly regarded Gel-Tubers are harming bullet technology advancement by using those rubber blocks - when it comes to expansion. Throwing 4 layers of denim over the block, and then screaming how a bullet fails to expand, y'all...is mixing FBI protocol with non-protocol. Stupid. Much. If you go to the end of this video, it gives a decent visual comparison of what I'm talking about. ruclips.net/video/x2rn2DQa-6Y/видео.html The TSX will open in meat down to ~2000 fps. At 1950 it was minimal and at 2072 it was acceptable. I haven't honed in on exactly where in between those velocities it fails, but that means at 2500 fps we can take it out to 100-125 yds, but at 2400 fps that drops to 75 - 100 yds. One could argue that even if it only tumbles, though - that might be acceptable for some applications?

@@breckfreeride I use the Hornady sizing & seating dies and I use simple-green to wash and no tumbling. It's not as bad as many people claim. Biggest negative is not being able to buy virgin brass.

www.57forum.com/viewforum.php?f=19&sid=ad017741c19a48098d03d90b56a847df

@@ShastaBean whole thread for neck separation... Fun times

@@breckfreeride Yup - it's a high pressure round. From the testing I've done, it's primers getting pierced or popped that are 1st signs of pressure. Neck separations are something I've seen with ammo I bought from G*nbroker. ruclips.net/video/dnoSjwdaOfY/видео.html With these TSX loads; I had to change to the CCI-41 to stop piercing primers. At this ~2500 fps and above, is where I wouldn't be surprised to see a neck separate. Once I find the max, I do plan to probably go back to the CCI 400. A neck separation at the range ends my day if I don't bring a brush with me, but in defensive situation - can end everything.

Haha yeah, the screens with info might need to be paused to actually see & compare anything. Definitely working these for the rifle. But I'll likely run a couple through the pistol once I settle on the charge for the rifle, just to see how it does from the shorter barrel. Who knows, I might get lucky? I suspect the Acc#7 or #9 should be better in a pistol, but won't know until tried. If I could get the pistol to do 1950 - 2000 fps, I'd be tickled pink and these would be added to the carry mag. Unless something changed with the optic, these last few slower burn powders didn't print left like the previous tests all did with TSX...so that's good and might be able to mix ammo, after all. We'll see. I did compare the LX to the Magneto in this video, or did you mean something else? I fired some 10mm, 9mm, & 380 rounds that I have to review but didn't have the Magneto hooked up for any of those. Just wanted to see how it does and it worked pretty well except for picking up my neighbors' bullets on either side of me once I switched it to pistol. May have to fiddle with the sensitivity settings. Being able to pull the data off onto my laptop makes this a winner for me vs. the Garmin. Hard to believe they didn't include that capability. I nearly bought one on multiple occasions. Glad I didn't, now. I might do some sort of comparison vid, but that's tedious for sure. I had shot comparison tests with the 3 DLXs I have vs. the Magneto and it's a good deal of work, so I don't know if I'll take the time. Maybe.

@@ShastaBean I truly apologize for the Labradar question, it's sitting right there on the screen, and I looked right past it. And no, I'm not requesting a video, but do appreciate your comments. It may be a bit of angle, maybe a little glare, but your warm loads seem well within pressure appearances of your Fiocchi control rounds.

@@craigm1954 I can see only the slightest difference in the flowing but frankly I was a bit shocked to see 2500 fps and not glaring signs or pierced/popped primer. Sample-size very small, so more to come.

Mid to upper 60s here, with lows in mid 30s. 🌞 I'd like to start loading for a 10mm carbine...but REALLY want to get an LC Charger in 10mm (if they release one)...provided the hearing-protection legislation ever goes through and I can do suppressed. As for full length, I bought some 120 Cutting Edge Raptors and some Makers 140 gr expanding. It'd be interesting to see how something like compares to your 180 gr? Especially regarding accuracy. I calculate trying to get them ~1950 fps & 1800 fps, respectively. For pistol, ~1625 fps & 1500 fps, respectively. I'll be loading some of those in the coming weeks. Maker also has a 90 gr that is always OOS, that I'd like to see ~1875 from pistol and 2225 from rifle. I have no real clue how PCCs do at any distance, though. Light vs. heavy bullets? How cool would it be if someone had access to some hogs to do some testing? (hint)

@@ShastaBean 😂😂I am working on it.🫡 I have left a message for Ruger on almost every video that is about the LC Carbine, telling them they need to release a 10mm LC Charger, and they might as well include 45 acp as well.🤷‍♂ Maybe they will listen, I see others commenting as well.👊 I am looking at a few options beyond the XTP bullet, but not a lot. Mostly looking at light for caliber solid fluted copper bullets, but I am not finding a lot of information about down range performance and accuracy from a carbine, just pistols.🤷‍♂ What barrel length pistol for those 120 & 140 grain bullets? Right now, I only have 3.8" & 8" available for pistol lengths... Also, how common are the bullets? Most of the places I frequent reliably have XTP bullets, but not a lot more. I would prefer a good bonded soft point for my application, but I can't find much besides the XTP. And I really don't want to order a quantity that would make sense for online ordering with shipping until I know what I want to load in quantity.🤷‍♂ But I made a note about those projectiles, I will see if I see any on my next rounds of the local shops.🫡 I think my email is listed on my channel somewhere, maybe.🤷‍♂ Send me the load and powder data, and if I can replicate it easily, I will.👍 Who knows, I might like it for something. If nothing else it sounds like some spicy meatballs for feeding the trash pandas some fruit at the range.😁

@@Disastrous.Affect I haven't yet started to work out what powder & charge for the Makers & Raptors. Seems I always have more things to do than what I can get to. A leaking tub faucet isn't helping. 😠

@ShastaBean I'm planning to be hunting in March, we got time. 👍

@@Disastrous.Affect The bonded bullets I'd choose for hunting or bear defense are the Swift A-Frame; 200 or 180 gr. They are quite expensive, and I only ever see them on Midway and north of $1.75/ea. For a bullet!!! XTP are good for primate defense, no doubt. The pistols I have are the M&P 4" & 5.6" PerfCtr. I don't know if the Makers or Cutting Edge can be had from a store...I doubt it, but maybe? Lehigh has a controlled fracturing that is 190 gr. That might be quite effective from a carbine? Like, very?!

I should have included photo of the brass - but nothing at all going on with them...being such low velocities. I'm going to try 10 - 11gr of the Acc 1680 and see if it maybe shoots up in vel? But I can achieve ~2400 fps with Accurate #9, so I'm trying for higher than that. Maybe futile and a waste of time? I might go grab a jug of H110 tomorrow and give that a try. I actually think it might work. Based on what I see for .22 Hornet load info. Not that it translates precisely, though. Now that I see what max powder is (~11 gr of ball / 9-10gr extruded). .22 Hornet with H110 @ 9.0 gr = 2342 fps .22 Hornet with Acc 1680 @ 11.1 gr = 2194. So, that's promising? .22 Hornet with IMR 4198 @ 10.5C = 2010 So? I'm a bit hopeful. here's best visual of what expands at which velocities. 2100 fps will work in meat, but not the rubber blocks. ruclips.net/video/x2rn2DQa-6Y/видео.html

@@ShastaBean I've never been around too much Hornet, but I'd guess published data would be for a lower pressure than 5.7x28. It has the look like 4198 is out of the running to top 2400fps. H110 might do it, but I'll watch for you walking that 1680 up.

@@craigm1954 Indeed, IMR 4198 is back on the shelf for .223. I might load some 35 gr NTX with that. And Yes, .22 Hornet is less pressure & more powder, so it's certainly not a 1-to-1 to fling it into a 5.7 case. I'm just extrapolating with the numbers I do see and going to try. 2350 - 2400 fps with Acc#9 is fantastic and more than what I'd need to see; to load a couple hundred rounds. But 2400 - 2450 fps is even fantasticer!!

that sounds like you are describing point-of-impact (POI) shift, not drop? Different weight / velocity ammo is not at all unusual to hit at different places. Though, that does sound like a lot. Is it low or high power rounds?

@ both, a 220gr hardcast loaded hot, hits low. 180gr shitty white box ammo that’s ballisticly just 40 also hitting low, however my hot 155s are laser beams 😂 not a huge deal I like that weight anyways 🤷‍♂️

@@coltonmoutdoors It got me to wondering if the weight of the ammo changes how people shoot? I've never seen it tested. Ideally we're all so expert that we fire exactly the same way, no matter if there's 2 rounds of Liberty in the pistol, vs 15+1 of 220 grain...it wouldn't surprise me that is we all have a slightly different trigger-pull depending on whether it weighs 31.4 oz...or 7% heavier. It's one reason I try to rest it, on any comparison tests - even if doing that makes it hard to hang onto; which also probably changes how it shoots. 20 yards is pretty far shooting, in my book. So maybe you'd have to see if that same MOI shift is there if you put the target at 5 or 7 yards? If it's 6" at 20 yards, then you should see shift of ~2" at 7 yards. I see easily that much shift and more with the 5.7 with different weights & velocity. With the rifle, I always assumed it was weight dependent, and heavier shoots lower POI when zero'd @ 100 - but it's not. And it's not energy or velocity specific, either. Even if there are tendencies, there'll be outliers.

in the name of science - - it had to be done

Feel free to jump in...I'm quite sure you have some value to contribute 🤓

(what it wouldn't let me say on TBP's vid:) I 1000% agree about penetration on hunting, esp large game. I'd want every shot to be a thru-n-thru, no matter where it hits. But my understanding (not from 1st-hand experience) is that those types of shots are going to make it lay down eventually, but pretty much every time. It will never survive it. But might take some tracking. I see defensive use very differently (not from 1st-hand experience) and as the only desire is to change behavior and not to eventually lay down, but very swiftly have a stop...either voluntarily, or involuntarily. I'd never want thru-n-thru in that situation, even though it again is quite likely to be ending. But I believe it has a lower chance of changing behavior within 5 seconds. An elk being to wander off over a hill before it's had enough to me is the equivalent of an assailant continuing whatever they were doing that forced me to use it. When I see a round just sail through into a 3rd gel block without them even wiggling...that to me looks a lot like an arrow and it's going to make for a harvest when hunting - but tracking skills likely will be needed. I think in many cases they might not even hardly feel it. But will weaken in the minutes to follow. Minutes can be a long time. When I see large game drop quickly, I feel like it's because of the shock-wave + that happening upon vitals. That result in a block where it's lifted off the table, and does a back-flip. I wouldn't want to fire a 110 gr .308 varmint at an elk for consumption. If I had to choose, I'd pick an 155 gr FMJ over that. But for defense against an attacking bear? Give me the .308 varmint over the thru-n-thru: all day. From what I saw those do to a block - I believe they'd turn an attacking bear into something other than attacking, faster than any other .308. It would most certainly know that something very serious just happened, before it could even register that thought. I'd not use the same rifle ammo to hunt bear, that I'd use for defense against a bear.

@@ShastaBean I think I said that wrong. Basically, if I'm under gunned on power, penetration can have advantages. The thing I've also seem with quality hard cast, that's heavy for bore(important), is straight penetration, even when it hits heavy bone at an angle. I carried into the woods and cast, shot a good bunch of SSK 310gr 44mag, back when it was first introduced. The 10mm is weak on muzzle energy, but 200gr or preferably 220gr hard cast is a logical option for me today. I like bird hunting, and in the fall, I've seen grizzlies, mountain lion, even moose out in the woods. They're always just doing whatever they're doing, but some day I could run into momma bear with a cub, or something ornery that doesn't feel like they're fattened up enough to take on winter. On a regular or even a once in a lifetime hunt, hands down I would take an appropriate arm, with appropriate ammo. But, I like the option, when I'm in a relatively control situation, to use for example, an antique. Another thing I won't do on a bird hunting trip, is go light on the shotgun loads, but around home, I normally hunt with lighter loads and tighter chokes. It's not a number game for me, but more being out just to be out, and trying to line up that ideal sight picture. It works like a charm, or clean miss, far less wing tipped, gliding away birds for me, than in earlier years. Okay, just to be contrary, I wouldn't use varmint type bullet performance for bear defense. I think .308 doesn't have the mystique of a heavy magnum, but in my mind it's strong enough to warrant a quality, penetrating soft point. It's been many years since I recall helping with a good size fall black bear. The coat was easily courser than the four layer denim "standard", and the fat had to be at least six inches thick, but probably more. I recall a grizzly attack story on a group of hunters, they may have been tracking it. Anyway, as the story went, one was an action pistol competitor, and he dumped a mag of hollow points into the bear. Supposedly, all were caught in the fat layer, and it was shot from others that got to vitals. I'm coming around though. In the right situations, I like the high velocity, quick energy dump strategy. Unrelated, but I'll use skeet loads in the shotgun, in the house. Close, it acts like a slug, but it's not as likely to pass into a bedroom, or into a neighbor's place.

@@craigm1954 TBP mentioned the bear fat story and I asked if he could point me to it...I wasn't able to find it. He may have forgot, or unable...but at that time, I did a search on the thickness of grizzly fat and this terrible search engine says 1 - 3". So today, since you specified black bear, thought I'd see if maybe theirs is thicker? Results say 3 - 5" thick - so that's interesting, if true, that the BB has thicker fat? I wouldn't have guessed that, but I suppose? That's an obscene amount of fat! haha And for me, that certainly changes the calculus. If the attacker-bear has 5 full inches of fat - then I wouldn't choose a varmint load, given that. That's new information and I call "takebacks". lol A more reasonable comparison; to make my point, then - would be something like the 110 gr TTSX or TAC-TX (shot both into gel)...High energy-dump in the first ~1-10" and penetrates out to ~ 18 or 20"...vs something that penetrates 40+ inches We saw something like that recently on TBP's channel (FN 510: Issues?) where it went 4 feet and was like a pencil hole - but super deep! That's where we had the back & forth and him telling me of the fat bear. I think I've said this to TBP and when it comes to 10mm, I don't think I'd opt for a fracturing round against a grizzly defense. They are just too big. So I'd go for the 200 grain Swift A-frame bullets that penetrate to ~20". Although, I could see having a Liberty Overwatch staggered in, every 3rd or 4th round. Two decent (not too deep) penetrators + a third grenade? I do think there's a different level of pain involved too, when the wounding is less deep & more severe (grenading). That's where pain-receptors are - not so much on the internals. Not sure how that would ever be tested, though? You have for sure different concerns than I do w/moose or bear. So most of what I am referring to for defense is against javelina, coyotes, and 2-legged variety. For that, I only want 10-12" penetration - max. It's the FBI thingy that I find out of whack. It's a good thing those Miami agents in '86 weren't having banks being robbed by Smokey!!

I’ve heard of that hollow point failure to penetrate story twice, once I read a link which now I can’t recall, and “Chuke” highlighted it in a video, but I just don’t know how to search those. A little bit ago, I tried to look on ammoland, but all I could see was excerpts, and not the fuller account. I’ll keep trying. When I helped my buddy cut up the black bear that I mentioned, I can still see the chunks in my hands. Possibly five inches, but way thicker than 1-3in. I couldn’t grasp between a thumb and fingers. I don’t get into it, but this bear was actually shot, so he could render the fat. In the spring, it’s a different look after they come out of hybernation. A dept of interior article (10/02/2024) states Alaskan salmon run Brownies can put on a third more weight to fatten up? That’s a chunk. I recall a turkey’s opinion test where the hollow point grenaded in get, and I made a comment about how that could be a good thing. Of course, everyone was defaulting to the lack of penetration. But, I fairly regularly hunt an area that has one, but possible two feral dog packs, who regularly confront hunters, aggressively. The wildlife official and area ranchers have a shoot if no collar policy. But, it’s the same area that a grizzly was documented, lol.

Yeah, not any significant difference between this and what I saw with HST to make any switches at this point - other than having 3 exit wounds vs 1, albeit they are each less diameter, which I suppose then comes down to sheer luck and which provides better odds: 1 exit of .355 + 1 of .100 + another 1 of .100 or one at .550. Would take more repeats and precise measurements along with factoring in pressure-wave effects on incapacitation and cavity size at all depths.

@ShastaBean I generally load 124-grain standard pressure HST in my 43X or Hydra-Shok Deep when I'm carrying .380 You're kind of a 5.7 guy. It a shame mainstream companies don't load that cartridge to its full potential, save maybe the new Hornady load.

@@wastool I'd like to get some of the Critical Duty bullets and load them in 5.7. Not sure if you saw Buffman's video with their brass rupturing, but I won't be buying any of their ammo until I know for sure that's sorted out. As far as I've come to believe, the 5.7 nerf'ing is a direct result of the cartridge's effectiveness. Normal factory ammo should be 300 - 320 ft#, minimum of 280 ft#, and premium defensive ammo should be 320 - 340 ft#. I'd say 340 - 370 ft# is roughly what we see Underwood load in other calibers. 400 ft# is absolute max, but it can be done - just not by me.

If the 10-12 shards were shaped like BBs...they would likely only create separate small channels like many gel-tubers proclaim. But they aren't. They are jagged and sharp....so, slicing & tearing...and doing it at a time when the pressure-wave already has the channel stretched and spread to a 4 or 5" diameter. In gel, this doesn't make a large singular hole, but instead we just see thin lines radiating out. But in meat, it appears to create a singular large hole. Even at these lower velocities, there seems to be an added effect with fracturing where it doesn't have to be up around or over 2000 fps to have the temp-stretch cavity resulting in a true wound. That said, I don't see a ton of advantage of this round vs. what the HST did. That would have to take some repetition and more precise measurements. However, the 2 shards that exited can't be dismissed. That's over 10.5" of a 2nd and 3rd wound-track that is only slightly less than the main permanent channel of the base. That literally could mean hitting BOTH lungs AND the heart. LOL. I mean that's a 3-for-1 in some sense + the main large hole out to 7". Definitely not bad, imo. I just had to leave that sound bite in there for my critics. haha. I would actually leave my comments that I make for myself in there...but I typically have some tunes playing, and it ends up getting copyrighted. not a big deal, but a bit annoying. Although, if I start listening to hip-hop...maybe it will make my channel explode?? (I mean - GRENADE!!) haha.

I had seen it do exactly 17" in 10% gel, so I had a feeling it would be at least 14". I think every pork test I've done matches the FBI gel, nearly identically - with only slight differences. The advantage with the meat, is being able to see what is actually a "hole" vs. lines in gel. Seems it's an "in-between" the Liberty ammo and normal jhp in terms of some extra damage in the 2-6" range vs jhp, at the expense of not as much fracturing damage as Liberty. Not a bad trade-off.

@ShastaBean 17 inches huh? I thought I saw 14 in a test before. I still prefer the pork tests for sure since it's real tissue and has bone and not a tissue simulant. Still it's something the fbi got right lol. I agree it does seem in-between Liberty and jhps. Definitely better than jhps. Thanks again for the test!

@@funwithballistics1016 Buckeye Ballistics has it into the organic gel and it was 17"...although he commented on his blocks being near the end of their life and thought it went that far because of that, and the calibration BB was just over the max. Tools & Targets had go 17" in clear gel...so in that way, maybe the "real" # is like 16"?...since my gel was also the rubber type and Buckeye's was a bit lenient? In my pork test, Overwatch also penetrated all the way through the 6" clear block after the pork, and that went 16" in Tools' test. And my HST test is nearly identical to Buckeye's 10% result. Point being - I do think this base of the Sinterfire will really penetrate nearly as deep as this - until bone, as you mention. This didn't hit it. I have it always turned so that it will only hit the bone on the backside, but someday would like to flip it the other way to see how it does with a scapula. Currently, though - I'm just interested in the ability to open and the damage out to ~7". Seeing effects in pork have made me a believer in 5.7 & Liberty in calibers other than .380...and even this sort of heavier fracturing compressed copper technology, apparently. I have at least 3 compressed coppers that I now want to see that are options for 5.7. And yeah, the FBI got the simulant right (at least lol), but...that whole 14 - 16 penetration standard though? All wrong. I believe anything beyond 10" is poor use of energy & surface-area. Currently, anyway. Even with this round...I'd rather have the base be ~40 grains penetrating to 11" & more/bigger shards creating a 3" cavity at 4 - 7". If I could easily change professions - it would be creating a channel dedicated to doing away with that 1986 F(udd)BI scapegoat and stop seeing perps on Police Activity videos consistently absorb multiple 9mm JHPs to the thorax as though nothing happened.

@ShastaBean yeah 16 inches sounds correct then. Yeah it'd be great to see how the rounds are effected when they hit the scapula. According to Marshall and Sanow, the best street loads penetrated 8.5-12 inches and according to Courtney and Courtney, when they tested the correlation coefficients of individual wounding parameters of handgun bullets based on the Strasbourg tests, they found the correlation dropped (albeit very slightly) when bullets went passed 12 inches. They also tested peak pressure wave magnitude using 12 inches as the penetrating depth for calculation (considered to be one of the main factors in the goats that fell fastest during Strasbourg). For those reasons I believe energy and surface area correlations will start to drop after 12 inches. Yeah lol like almost everything their belief that energy ,velocity, and tsc mean nothing and that pcc is the only factor? Wrong. Their silly Wound Value method? Wrong. In fact, of all the ballistics testing pieces done at the time of M & S first book "Handgun Stopping Power" showed that fbi methodology had the absolute worst correlation factor to the street with a dismal .53 with a 90% degree of certainty! Lol I'd subscribe to that channel!

​@ShastaBean The 12 to 18 inch standard, as well as the entire ballistic testing protocol, was created as a result of the 1986 Miami FBI shootout. A 9mm 115 grain Silvertip failed to penetrate deeply enough to incapacitate Michael Platt. The bullet stopped less than an inch away from penetrating his heart. Platt was then able to kill 2 FBI agents and severally wound several others. All of the injuries the FBI sustained could have been prevented had that bullet penetrated just a little deeper.

Hey Grey! The "all terminal testing" playlist probably has some of the more useful info some people might find useful. The channel is just stuff that I either wondered about and got sick of asking others to test, or perhaps tracking progress and I seem to constantly refer back to thanks to I guess a poor memory. Or maybe some of the load info depending on what people also might do. Will be revisiting the 5.7 x 28 TSX 45 grain load work next and I have a list of other pork tests I want to see. What I really want to get back to is the .338 lapua load work, so hopefully I get motivated. I also have some new 10mm Maker & Cutting Edge bullets that I am curious about, so who knows?

Yeah, until I try some other rounds, I might be too harsh on how this did? It did nearly identical to how I suspected, given seeing Buckeye's 10% test. The R.I.P. might actually be the best for fracturing, but also maybe Sinterfire. Otherwise, fluted-copper...or just good ol' JHP. I tried to find the Minnesota 4x guys vs. bear, and only found 1 where a guy was attacked but they didn't shoot it...Can you steer me to it? Of course I'm skeptical, given a .380 fracturing round penetrates 10.5 through meat, but would like to hear how that's presented or such.

@ yes I’ll look for it.

holy crap, thanks! - yes, Civil. Fortunately I got it right IN the video. durp!! And, yeah it wasn't entirely ineffective, but not what a fracturing round _should_ do. I took the 3x Liberty out of this chamber & mag. So now it's just G9 ehp, Deep, & a Gold Dot. I'm going to do the G9 soon. And then some Sinterfire whenever it comes back in stock. I've seen some of those cycling issues, too. That's #1 concern before anything else. I do wonder if the UW issues are a result of being too powerful? Or is it the tip? Or a mixture? I haven't done any real amount of POI tests with .380. That's pretty far down on my concerns with this being almost always a backup, or even a backup to a backup. If I'm using this thing, it probably means I have far bigger worries than any shift and wouldn't even anticipate a sight-picture beyond perhaps having the vis laser on and quite close range. As always, yes - more data, data, data. Thanks again for the correction!

YW & I agree it certainly could have done worse...but I want to see a 2"+ diameter channel from 2 - 5" (or, more explosive fracturing). So I did pull these from the chamber & magazine. I'm ordering some Sinterfire for .380. Or I may fire the G2 R.I.P. into pork and see how those do and go from there. Maybe I'll change my mind about these - but the base / disc didn't even shed all of the shards. Seems to me it's pretty clearly designed for the 9mm velocity - well above 2000 fps, or 2150 as we mostly see.

YW & I agree re: JHP, except for possibly the HShok Deep might be useful...nah, what am I saying - they slowed it and doesn't expand very wide is how they get it to penetrate - meh. I want an MHP /huge type that is delivering >225 ft-lbs and reliably opens and only penetrates to ~8 or 9". Or a TSX type expander. I'm going to order some Sinterfire in .380 and see how that does and probably stagger with the G9 ehp or other fluted solid like UW xDef.

@ShastaBean yeah most hollowpoints are a no go. I seem to recall Sinterfire being decent. I think it penetrated a little too deep for my tastes. None the less I'd love to see it. Same for XD and G9. Greater the velocity the greater the wound tracks but it VASTLY overpenetrates. I agree an MHP with those specs would be a solid performer. I'd personally want fragmentation however.

I have G9 alternated with Hydrashok Deep right now, and a Gold Dot mixed in among the 7 rounds. I probably shouldn't have posted that conclusion to the video, but instead in the description (so I can change it)- since I haven't tested other .380 yet. I tested Sinterfire in 9mm, so that will be posted next - and wanted to see how that did before buying it for .380. Not so sure, yet. Kinda heavy and not all that fast. Penetrated like a bugger, though. After I test others, I might end up changing my mind about the Liberty. I really think they goofed up by using the 9mm designed bullet in this chambering. Compared to what I saw with the 9mm Overwatch, this was a let-down. Check that one out. I hadn't considered Liberty either, until seeing what 5.7 fracturing does to meat. Opened my eyes to velocity. I suspect the Underwood xtreme Defender is tops (based on other's gel tests), so if the G9 doesn't deliver, I'll be buying up some of that. Probably will anyway, just to test in the pork. And no, no audio. I don't feel like blathering on about it on video, but just let the outcome speak for itself - at least until the end of this one and a few others I'll make a written comment is all. It's enough of a pain editing the video w/o having to worry about me blundering through it and I really just post results for myself to see later on, and if others might benefit. Not trying to have a big channel. At least not on this shit platform that hates us.

@ShastaBean I'll check out that Overwatch video, then. When I could still get them, I carried Glaser blue tips and silver tips; that combination of velocity and fragmentation made them very effective through rapid blood loss, even in a .25 or .32 but much more-so in .357 or .45. Plus it doesn't overpenetrate. But for .25, I favored a swaged brass inverse-truncated hollow point +P custom shop load I found. It was designed to bite in and break bone instead of bounce off or skimming along the surface of the bone, and penetrate tissue straight if it didn't hit bone, making the little F.I.E. or Raven shockingly accurate and deliver crippling or lethal wounds. It was banned by the B.A.T.F. when it got around to testing them, because it would easily penetrate the Level 2 vest (circa 1986). These days, the only way to get them is to have a swaging mold made for a reloading press, easy enough; brass is easy enough to buy from a recycler, but getting it cast into little slugs of the correct 45-grain weight? Same for Glaser Safety Slugs -- easy enough to make, but certain steps involve extra hassles. I know the only .380 loads I have liked are the Underwood and (blanking on it) hypercavitating bullets, and the Remington Golden Saber Ultimate Defense 99-grain hollow points; back in the day, we would cast a 100-grain LSWC from pure lead and spoon-tip it, and load to 1,000 f.p.s. from a Colt Government .380. The Remington load comes pretty close to that, with controlled expansion and fragmentation instead of tumbling + flared expansion for trauma. The S&W EZ .380 is my current pick, just a plain easy choice -- though that little Shield looks quite likeable!

@@davidgoodnow269 I've seen only just a bit of the Glaser & am interested so I'll look further into those. The other, "swaged brass inverse-truncated hollow point" sounds very interesting. I was just thinking yesterday about how I'd like to see a concave + jagged sort of tip. Like a hole-saw. The horrible FBI 14-16" penetration standard has really hindered bullet technology, imo. All the damage I ever see that's beyond the 6-8" area is only ever the bullet diameter, and while it's not "nothing", it's appears much less consequential than what is going on in the 2-8" region. After 10" I'd deem that waste. Certainly at beyond 10" .45 is double a .22 but both are relatively small in comparison to the 1 - 3 or 4" diameter cavity that the pressure-wave can create. For sure some expansion can change that, but then doesn't typically get all that far. Here's a vid of some good comparisons. He does some valuable testing and often it includes 10% vs clear gel. ruclips.net/video/z-kBbL5BehE/видео.html And the Underwood - (9 m vs 380) ruclips.net/video/WEk3AxG-EgE/видео.html I have the G2 R.I.P. and was carrying it as a 1st round, but pulled it out - thinking it's too weak. I think I am going to give the Sinterfire a shot. I can't find any testing of it in .380 so far. It really doesn't look too bad in 9mm as I review it.

no sweat - I come & go from comments myself...plus this shit platform will delete replies and often doesn't notify if a reply sent. They hate me. lol Not unlike yourself, I really only picked this up as a hobby in the past 3-4 years and find it way more interesting than I expected. Most of what I have are just budget options. It can become very expensive, and currently I prefer quantity over quality, to a point. I get over-analytical, and so testing variables is pretty never-ending with a lot of this. I started handloading in ~2021 and that's where the real fun is, imo. Especially with this 5.7 x 28. It's way more capable than what most factory ammo offers. There are a couple of companies that do legit loads, but long wait times and sketchy reliability or consistency. For sure you can't buy these TSX loads anywhere. The meat is definitely an added observation that you really can't get from gel. Plus the synthetic clear stuff is quite stingy with expansion. That was the whole reason I even tried pork. These TSX bullets failed to expand in clear gel, even from the rifle at nearly 2200 fps. lame The 10% organic gel is pretty spot-on in comparison to this actual meat. But a bit of a pain to prepare, from the little I know. I haven't tried it yet. But might give that go. But that will end up in the trash, whereas this meat does get cooked up in the oven, but my thumbnail gets to eat nearly all of it. So, a win-win. Cheap meat, and some tests done. I just shot 2 more over the Holiday I need to edit & upload. Nothing spectacular, but it did make me pull ammo out of my .380 carry magazine. So, worth it - in that regard.

Not currently. It's just a fun hobby at this time. But who knows what the future holds....?

@ShastaBean A guy can dream, right?

No doubt it would "blow out a lung" The fact they can do this at just 1650 fps is pretty amazing. It's not much wonder why the military stole this technology for the m855a1 and got successfully sued for $15 million in doing so. The 32 gr Chaos - did pretty much the same, except the flap of meat blown out didn't stay attached. Legend has it's still in low-earth-orbit. ruclips.net/video/jgtm9Um4Euc/видео.html

what did you try it on/in that it didn't impress you? The hype is velocity. Though some of that is sacrificed with 40 gr bullets like these. Liberty ammo in other calibers is the same idea. Velocity rules when it comes to getting highest pressure-wave (aka incapacitation times go down). This test demonstrated that the heavier / fracturing design looked to at least be limited by using with the tip inserted - resulting in the bullet isn't letting the entire segments break off...at least with the pistol. The stem of the tip didn't come out until very, very late. That might be fine for hunting, but not what I want for defense. So, not much hype with how this went. I suspect with the rifle, it might still perform like fracturing should - even with the tip inserted. But even that might be far better w/o the tip in there. I plan to repeat it w/o the tip out of the pistol...if it still doesn't shed the entire petals all the way down to the base, and within the 3-6" region, I won't be carrying this bullet. At least not in the first 8 rounds of the magazine. I would like to have at least 1 type of 40 or 45 grain that penetrates mixed in, late. But my preference is whatever is able to go fastest and violently come apart in the 1 - 6" region. The 32 gr Lehigh Controlled Chaos & the 30 gr Cutting Edge Raptor are my current primary go-to. Check out what those did to the meat. They look much like the Liberty Overwatch in 9mm. Those are what I'm carrying as first 5 or so shots. I mix ammo in the magazine. LIke 5 or 6 types in everything I carry. Mostly fast & fracturing, but a few heavier & slower rounds in case penetration actually matters for some reason. I mostly don't want over 8-10" of penetration. Beyond that is a waste in most cases from what I've seen. I'm pretty sure it's why we see at least every 3rd or so PoliceActivity video shows someone absorbing 9mm rounds like nothing happened. I wish they'd switch to Overwatch, or a round like I carry in 5.7. I can't see ignoring those impacts like I saw into the pork shoulders.

I wish some LE agency would deploy some Liberty ammo. Saw yet another video on Police Activity today of a guy absorbing 6 rounds of the "proven, modern hollow-point" at point-blank before being affected. I'm SO over the whole penetration thing. I don't want penetration beyond 10" and ideally 8". The F.(udd).B.I. with their stupid testing protocol 14-16" penetration depth has done tremendous damage to defensive ammo, imo. That Silvertip round from 1986 being blamed for that failure of an operation seems like exactly the type of thing they'd pull to deflect any accountability. I've read through that case repeatedly, and they say that shot was the one that proved fatal, yet it took however many minutes to do the job. Basically like a hunting round. Deep penetration is what I'd want for hunting. Not defense. I want something grenading, or expanding so violently that it does something like TTO's recent Black Talon 400 legend did. BOOM! And the first thing he says it might not be good for home-defense? The .308 varmint rounds I shot didn't go 12" in a few cases. The Nosler Varmageddon went like 10". To think that's not suitable for defense? Because of what the FBI says? So sick of it. lol. Ok, I've vented. But really. And then the GEL!!! AHHHH! Tools & Targets is doing tremendous damage to bullet technology with his FBI protocol clothing, but not using FBI gel. Then when they don't expand and him & his thousands of viewers bash the ammo. Although, in theory...it might be working towards my desire, and force companies to create more easily expanding ammo? haha. I guess I should shut up, then? pfft. But the last 20 seconds of this vid is some proof of the difference between rubber blocks & meat (or 10% organic). Same goes for the 40 gr Raptor. Didn't open in gel, but did in meat (with the tip inserted). sigh. I was reading about a few OSIs involving 5.7 and I don't know the ammo, for sure - but assume it was the SS190...which apart from armor-penetration, is the furthest thing from what I'd choose....but even with that ammo, seems it was effective. I've been carrying my M&P 57 all the time, recently. I take the 9mm with me too, on walks and the .380 added in my pocket if shopping or whatever. People thinking it's "just a flesh wound".....blech. Wish I could quit my job and go into terminal testing, full time. So much work needs to be done, to undo 4 decades of fudd-sense. The military went to the m855a1, not a 90 grain wad-cutter that penetrates through 3 blocks.

@@ShastaBean I appreciate that you're willing to do the deeper look at terminal performance, than I could ever imagine. I do like consistency, gel tests being one example. For results, I like to see gel tests with no simulations, clothing, bone, etc., for reasonable comparison between any loads, over time. I do have personal opinion issues with some methods and conclusions, but I enjoy many bits and pieces along the way. I grin at comments by some that contradict their previous thoughts, but I suppose it's real world. I lean generally towards penetration, but it's motivated by being out in the field, but definitely not always. At home, I'm not so sure drywall will protect a family member in the next room. It was a good while ago, but I mentioned to TB, that I had a chance to sit in on a little mil thoughts of the day presentations. They had a high velocity, low bullet weight energy dump philosophy. There was lethality, but the goal was to create injuries that would strain enemy resources and morale. Merry Christmas SB.

agreed...and just replied to Craig - your notion along the same lines. I don't have lil gun, but definitely going to try some slower powder, given there's no flash from the muzzle with this #9, until a slight bit seen with 8.2 gr...should suggest I can use a slower powder. I have IMR-4198 and so I'm going to try that. If it proves to be too slow, I'll get something in between, like lil gun

I was thinking same thing, and going back over the pork results, and based on those, don't think it's going to be anything viable for the pistol in any way other than perhaps tumbling, or FMJ type performance. Which is certainly not nothing & worth considering. Looking back at the LC & 57 tests into the rubber blocks, where it tumbles and shows those large disruption tracks that are very deep and very wide, even though they are only 2-dimensional. And ~20" of penetration. The one possibility I'm wrong - is if it actually opens at lower velocity in tissue that isn't just "pork shoulder"...i.e., bones, skin, organs, fluids, etc. That could be possible. But needing 1950 - 2000 fps for expansion means it's going to be 380 - 400 ft-lbs and not where I feel comfortable loading. I consider that like +p+ ish. I might do a batch of 10% organic gel, and see if perhaps it does open at 1850 - 1925 fps. Then I'd probably feel better about staggering some in defensive pistol mag. How do you feel about that tumbling effect? I might actually test that into pork, and see if it's more significant than I give it credit for.

and now I'm glad you mentioned faster powder...and it coaxed me to look at the muzzle closely on these shots...not even a speck of a hint of flash coming out except for at 4:15 and the two shots of 8.2 grains. So shouldn't that be suggesting to me to try an even slower powder? I might be able to go well beyond 2400 fps if I can start seeing some fire out the muzzle - meaning unburnt powder? I may give IMR-4198 a try.

@@ShastaBean Generically, I know it can be effective, but I have the thought that I prefer bullet stability, and then have bullet performance engineered in for the intention. This, in regard to tumbling. I can see so many acceptable or desirable exceptions, though. Your example of tumbling, and 20" on penetration is impressive. In the distant past, I've noticed more inconsistency with tumbling. And on a partially unrelated note, random veering is always a little question mark, to me. But, I'm biased, there was a time that I cast and shot a bunch of heavy for bore bullets. I'm not much of a big game hunter, but from the penetration point of view, I've seen that those bullets can track amazingly straight and deep, through varying bone and tissue densities. Admittedly, not what you're looking at. Just thoughts.

@@ShastaBean I think that could very possibly be true, in the longer barrel. That's what prompted my comment in the opposite direction, and the shorter barrel, but in combination with the relatively heavy 45 gr bullet, possibly mattering. Again, just conversation. On a side note, I have no idea how it would work in the 5.7 cartridge, but my messing around with IMR-4198 is dirty, if the case is too small to build good pressure. Again, that may have nothing to do with reality.

@@craigm1954 I only have it because I tried it in 40 gr VMAX in .223. It worked ok. Not spectacular, but decent. I do think it's worth testing, because even if it's not the one - it might give me an idea of whether to stay closer to Acc#9's burn rate, or the IMR's. Just typing out loud....

YW & yes - progress; those powder weights might be good "enough"...but still think I can get faster.

@ trying a different powder or bullet or seating depth?

@@triggerbarPhD powder. IMR-4198. There's no fire out of the muzzle with #9, so I should be able to theoretically use something a bit slower - until I see some blast. We'll see?

@@triggerbarPhD here's someone describing in game, what I keep trying to proclaim translates to defense. ruclips.net/video/0dio0KXMuAs/видео.html

That's a great point!...that I hadn't thought of nor ever heard. Makes perfect sense and seems obvious...once pointed out. I prefer it closer to my eye, anyway, so I suppose I should & will move it back. Only put it there so I could fit the brass-catcher with the magnifier on. Thanks for the tip!!

@@ShastaBean just trying to help, and there are some brass catchers that attach to the handguard, Caldwell has one ✌

@@TheIntellectualSlacker thanks for that one, too...I'll order one. Mine is a Caldwell, but goes on the pic-rail. I think I see the one you mean. Switching out mine from one rifle to another, while at the range - sort of sux. 👍

⏸ 🛑📴⏺

How funny would it be if I said I was diverted because I was busy coming up with a cure for cancer? ...and was successful.... But then in an Alanis Morissette-type of ironic twist of fate (aka, not ironic), find out that people won't listen.

YW and yes, that's my max. It can go slightly higher, but not of any value that I'd trade for, and would rather be ~25 ft-lbs fewer.

It's interesting how it resists having the sides fracture away. I'd rather they come off more easily and in larger segments...for pistol defense, at least. The little shards aren't as big as I'd prefer and the stem breaking off and staying inside for so long is a bit like it being clogged. For hunting, that might be a good thing? I do want to see if leaving the tip out and going into meat changes things, or how much. After checking the LC video into the rubber block, it shows is has the potential to release bigger shards, so this might even deserve the same sort of treatment as the 45 gr TSX and try to see what the lowest velocity is for both the tip and no-tip? But yes I'm 100% with you re: velocity! And I stepped away while listening last night...and watched again today because I thought I was imagining things hearing TBP mentioned my channel, but not the spiffy carry. lol...and then saw the DA 👋wave after that. So, wasn't being a prude (on purpose)...and also found out if I move the window over to the other monitor, it starts the chat over on me. Weird. So, 👋

@ShastaBean No worries man, I miss things constantly in the livesstreams.👍 I can't read as fast as most of these folks type. 🤣

good question. Someday, perhaps. Although I'm far more concerned about cycling. The 6 light-for-caliber 308 tests I have are for H.D. purposes preferring ~10-12" of max penetration - and not really wanting the ~22 - 26" from the Hornady CD or Speer GD.

lol and you landed on THIS one? haha. it still gives me the 'willies'. I have a playlist called "all terminal testing" (used to be just gel). They are all mine but the two most recent, since I couldn't get links into other's comments, I put them there for reference. It was about the moment I decided to actually test 5.7 x 28 loads into pork that I became an advocate for fast & fracturing. I was a bit surprised at the damage it looked to create. So, then I did the pork with Overwatch & HST as a way to compare. No looking back, for me. Unless some new testing or evidence comes along. Enjoy. nothing much more than just my results & sans-commentary.

ruclips.net/user/shorts03mo6W2ESqE

@@ShastaBean Thanks SB

@@craigm1954 utube isn't letting me post any comments or replies, anywhere other than on my own video. I typed a response on TBPs video, putting some context to that link, and included thoughts on other things. I guess I'm in a timeout, and in a day or so it will probably let me talk again. Funny, if not maddening.

@@ShastaBean It's happened to me, and I couldn't figure out why. I here of people having a 24 hr timeout, for some reason, mine seemed like three(?) days. Thanks for trying, and definitely don't worry about my blabbering.