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Thank you for this. For some reason this quote which I’m sorry to say I can’t attribute came to mind: “Rather than being in a power boat trying to go upriver, take a canoe and follow the flow of the stream. You can still steer, but you don’t need to fight the current.”

I listened on a podcast app rather than watching on youtube. I just recently learned of you, Dougald, through your appearance on Nate Hagens' The Great Simplification. I am now a fan. Love this episode, and your recent discussion of art as necessity. Thank you for your honesty and plain speech.

At 22.25 as said in French” le putain de facteur humain” PFH

Thank you for this! I just got a copy from my library and can't wait to read it!

Climate change has been publicized and built up, as a pre-text to dismantle the existing order and replace this order with a fascist Global state, with the usual culprits, from Gates, Fink, Soros and other unappetizing "elites", who want to reduce CO2, by arriving in Davos with 1900 private jets every Year.

Yea but do both of you realize that you are incredibly pussy and will crack if you had to survive in Alaskan wilderness. The mosquitoes would drive you mad and Mcgilchrist’s soft pudgy body would break after hiking for your life. A bear would spot you and tear your sinew apart. How is that love you dumb marshmallow useless fuck? How is it love? How is the same nature that will have you screaming for your whore mother as you get eaten anything like love at all. Even love itself is stupid. There’s no good reason for Life. All needs to be reduced back to The Void.

Great show! good to have you back!

Maybe she was Gandalf, being the wise, and you were Frodo

If everyone would only realize that we are all in this together! And regarding your thoughts about seeing friends, John O'Donahue advises traveling whatever distance is necessary to have a conversation that will make your heart sing. This is the blessing of friendship.

Making good ruins, I have taken that to heart. Thank you Dougald.

Jackson Michael Garcia Thomas Williams Frank

Hi, is this anything also to do with Paul Kingsnorth? (I came here after a video interview with him where ‘The Dark Mountain Project’ was mentioned and now just following the trail.. it seems to be of the same sort of philosophy tho [& I have subscribed ] Thank you ;)

Very interesting talk!

Very insightful, thank you both

Thank you so much for sharing this conversation. It must be so wonderful to be among people with whom you can share these ideas.

Thank you so much, Dougald, for all the writing and talks you've shared online over the years. As an OG DM follower who moved to Japan some years ago, I'm a little out of the loop with discussions going on back 'home' in Europe - whether in front of an audience, or with erstwhile strangers in a quiet pub. I deeply appreciate your work, and the work of all the wonderful people you speak with. Much love 🙏

I love when she talks about the relationship between discipline and freedom

here's to making moves outside the logics of modernity .. :) thanks for this :)

Each person has their own world and there are different ways each person’s private world can end.

The problem is, rather than aligning with nature seeking to control and manipulate it.

The.problem with science, which is atheistic for the most part, is that it has no ontology.. It does what it does because it can. Obviously there has to be an ethical code, there are some things that can be done, which obviously should not be done for ethical reasons, and for safety. Circumstance caused the atom to be split and there was the bomb which now is a factor in human life. People see unfettered science, based on reason alone, as Frankenstein-ish. There has to be guardrails against tampering with nature, although the laws of nature cannot be changed, and consciousness, thankfully, is off-limits. Mind on the other hand is not, so hopefully, human intelligence and will is, has to be, its own guardrail.

Thank you Dougland & Caroline. 🙏🏻

I've been really enjoying yours stuff since reading your book Dougald, particularity enjoyed listening to the great humbling back catalogue. Sorry to wade in with a negative comment, but this one missed the mark for me, it did seem like a lot of big words to say very little, and it took me to over half way to work out what solar punk is! The only bit I resonated with was when Jay talked about positive action through permaculture and the like. Sometimes it seems the chat gets a bit intellectual for the sake of it, and I lose any human connection to the story. Love your work Dougald, cheers Paul

I have found my people. As California restricted water over the last five decades, I've seen how the birds suffer, the insects suffer, the ability of the atmosphere to form clouds suffers. I began to feel the cruelty toward the land, which had previously held many rivlets and creeks all weaving into the San Francisco Bay Delta, and that that bounty of moisture was dammed and the water cycle damaged. I began to see it as an act of courage to use a sprinkler once a week, instead of drip emitters parsimoniously delivering water only to roots. And I tried to enlist others in my view that preventing water from evaporating was only worsening the water crisis. Anyway, of course I've learnt so much more over the decades, and it's more complicated than that, but I just felt so alone for so many decades seeming to be the only one who could understand the harm that humans hogging every drop of water was doing to the essential water cycle. That water cycle used to be taught in schools, I'm not really sure the kids get the same education anymore. People seem to think that rain comes from clouds, without remembering that clouds come from trees and evaporation.

Astonishing resonance for me. It is profoundly and constantly on my mind, that we live at the end of a world, the end of a story, and the efforts to interrupt, struggle against, and preserve the world we have been accustomed to, is utterly futile and undesirable on an Earth that is finite, overheated, poisoned, and increasingly exhausted. We are exhausted also….trying to fulfill the language of modernity that is increasingly at odds with the reality that approaches, that many of us can perceive directly. We’re going to live on a very different Earth, if we are able to at all. I live in a rural community in the southwestern U.S. Even here, where some ancient traditions persist, on feast days I can hear the drums of my puebloan neighbors as they dance, the world edges toward the unrecognizable. Piñión pines(Pinus Edulis) is dying out. Honey Mesquite(Prosopis Glandulosa) is slowly moving north and higher in altitude. Siberian Elm has become nearly ubiquitous. The point is, the landscape is transforming into something alien within one or two lifetimes. This is occurring in a variety of ways and the references used by the elderly become almost nonsensical. I say or write, “Collapse is the Path”. I suppose you might say, “We need to build beautiful ruins.” Indeed, we are living within, and adapting, as much as possible, to a Predicament. I have referred to it as a “Wicked Problem”, to which there is no resolution, but adaptation. I think our futures may bear horrors. But they may also bear strange, difficult, and beautiful gifts, that once accepted, may change what it means to be a human being, living on an alien Earth. Thank you for your work. It is, I think, deeply important. Peace.

Respectfully, a criticism. I’d welcome correction on this if I’m laboring under a misapprehension. Climate change is a byproduct or symptom of Overshoot. An admittedly oversimplified description of Overshoot; Overpopulation/overconsumption + any economic system predicate on growth + leadership incentivized, invested in “Business as Usual” + a poisoned, overheated, exhausted, FINITE, Earth = Overshoot. Climate change is a characteristic of Global Industrial Civilization being a dissipative construct. It is a significant peril, but not the only one. The restoration of various planetary boundaries, such as water, soil, biomass, air temperature and purity require Collapse. Ultimately a choice has to be made….or perhaps not made, but no longer resisted….we shall have Global Industrial Civilization or, we will have a living Earth. But we will not have both. Collapse is the path.

Thanks for making this video man. Made my day

The destruction is not noticed because close enough to all humans are benefitting.

Surely the ecological approach to climate is the original (Seventies anyway) way? It's just that the improved data gathering and graphic (maths) evidence has proved what we originally thought. Definitely need more poets writing our books, rather than journalists, though.

Thank you Dougald and Rob for such a scintillating and thought-provoking conversation. I especially appreciated the shout-out to the International Geosphere-Biosphere Program from Rob - thanks! As a climate scientist (albeit the kind shaped by the IGBP approach), I wanted at times during the conversation to add some nuance, but the video format made that difficult. I doubt you heard me speaking to my computer screen. I wanted to respond at times in to the critique of climate scientists (who are generally not poets or writers, and don’t have the appreciation and facility with words that poets do…); still, I felt you both very nicely showed that we need both poets and scientists if we are to successfully deal with our current environment and climate crisis. =- Kevin Noone

" encourage oscillation between a kind of despair that is based on thinking we know more than we know and a form of agency that is hubristic " ... deep gratitude for articulating this observation so succinctly

Thank you guys.

According to Thomas Sowell, there are no solutions only tradeoffs. Would agree with your suggestion that predicaments can't fundamentally be eradicated.

Thank you for this beautiful conversation ❤

Lovely! Create good ruins is good advice for living in these end times.

Loved the poetry. Also the story of the KLF. If more millionaires burned their money rather than using up the Earth's resources and poisoning and destroying our ecosystems the world might be a better place.

Rebecca Solnit: ‘A Paradise Built in Hell’?

What an amazing conversation! Master class.

It’s wonderful to hear you both talk about music in this way, and also to see your friendship and get to know you both more through these videos. Some things I think about while listening: Caroline Ross when she talks about ‘Embodied Metaphor’. I.e. when I’m ironing, what am I metaphorically also doing? Culture especially in the UK and especially in the North where you and Billie grew up (?) became drawn into the mechanical rhythm of the Industrial Revolution machinery over the last 2-3 centuries, and craft and expression would have had a tough time resisting that mechanical rhythm, especially considering the invention of the clock and watch. Growing in awareness of the traditions of craft culture and music making before this mechanisation or beyond that mechanisation could mean re-thinking these huge influences on us and creating new meanings. I see that in Billie’s work. I also thought a lot about Iron as a metal, the Iron Age, and the mythical story of Iron John. Bring on more music!

Thank you for a very inspiring and thought-provoking keynote! At least two questions came to my mind: what do you make of stories like those of the Crow tribe as told by Jonathan Lear in "Radical Hope"? Aren't ends of worlds a lot more catastrophic and disorienting for individuals and communities than Campagna suggests? And secondly, are cells of weak resistance the only things we should be aiming for? I'm thinking of analyses as delivered e.g. by Daniel Schmachtenberger or Nora Bateson: my fear would be that whatever comes out of the work of weak resistance in the ruins will not lead to any better civilisation or only human co-existence. The weak resistance in Nazi Germany during the regime was not enough, not even de-nazification after the war, neither intervention, it seems to me, changed underlying cultural parameters, e.g. of dominance of certain personality types at centers of power. So how do weak cells of new, more humane culture grow larger? We had them for time immemorial, didn't we? Yet they never fulfilled their potential ever since agriculture was invented.

Thanks! RUclips provided a "transcript," but it is pretty inaccurate and lousy. It would be useful to myself and some others to have a quality transcript at some point.

Thank you, all. 🙏❤️🌍🕊🎶🎵

I too loved “My strange faith hobbled together from so many sources like soup about to go bad in the refrigerator.” Wonderful valuable conversation. I’m am trying to learn again how to pray and to live my life prayfully. Thank you.

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To someone from the oriental world like myself, the confessions of the environmentalists in the west is always hard to hear. The eastern world embraces modernity at its own course, regardless of what the west did, or didn't do. For China, for instance, everything is to serve the human world, according to their saint Confucius. The modern day Chinese don't give a shit to the natural world. The idea of the "noble undeveloped world" is so wrong. ruclips.net/video/OwOBRH56Ic0/видео.html

Climate Change is an ANTI- science. It is a perfect farce - a hoax of ridiculous proportions. No, this is not a left-hemisphere rant - it is a redress of the lies perpetrated by erroneous and ‘bought’ scientists…

Late to the show here. A fascinating discussion. Many thanks!

I just keep pressing buttons on my cellphone and now I have all of you. I am looking forward to this discussion. Thank you all again. Right down alleyways of all of us meeting serendipitously. 🙏❤️🌎🕊🎵🎶

Thank you both for an amazing discussion. 🌹🌹 "Attention to attention," thank you, Dr. McGilchrist's for all your books and all others books that are in tune with yours asking questions of who are we? We remember the peoples islands of Hawaii and the indigenous culture there and listened to their voices as the wind fires of destabilizing force ablazed their scorched voices long ago was told. Khuli aku, kahli mai. Kahuli lei 'ula, lei, 'akolea Kolea, kolea; ki'i ka wai, wai 'akolea. which menas: Trill afar, trill near. Kahuli with scarlet stripe, lea of akolea. Plover, plover; fetch the water Water from ' Akolea (pond) 🙏❤️🌎🎵🎶