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The key to checking or setting the timing is knowing exactly where it fires on the flywheel in relation to the coil. That's what the timing light is for. This is not even worth doing if you are starting with a flywheel that has a known timing. For example the ARC flywheels come with 32 degree timing. If you want 34 just buy a 2 degree key. The PVL flywheel comes with 28 degree timing. If you want 32 get a 4 degree key. I recently used an inexpensive cast aluminum flywheel on a 196 build. It got timed to 32 degrees without a key. Those flywheels come with somewhere around 18-20 degree timing. All I did was set the degree wheel to 32 BTDC and carefully put the flywheel on to where it fires and torqued it down. I already knew where because I had it on a different engine and found it with a timing light.

@@Deucealive75 I finally understand timing and it all works ! You’re a key player in my understanding and learning. Ty for taking the time of day to make this video and respond. I did install a 4 degree key to make it 36 but I think that’s too much timing

@@Deucealive75 I mean too much advancement

@@Greybuiltracing Welcome. I don't know a ton about it. I just set it to what the recommendation is for the cam. Every cam I have used calls for 32 so that's what I set it at.

@@Deucealive75 yup exactly. I’ve heard stock flywheels being advanced and they go faster .

No. Missing space on the left advances the timing. Missing space on the right retards the timing. Which ARC flywheel is timed to 24 degrees? That would be odd. Both of their $120 clone flywheels are set at 32 degrees with a stock key.

@@Deucealive75 the #6623 gx390.

I have no idea on natural gas. Sorry!

If you remove the flywheel you will need to reset your timing. Removing the head you don't. You will have to reset your lash if you removed the rockers, changed the thickness of the head gasket, changed rockers, or milled the head.

Mike Allen well that sucks lol what happens if I just throw it back together? Will it just not start? Or will it screw it up and brake it?

@@mikefawc22 if you removed the flywheel use the flywheel key to set it to stock timing.

Mike Allen okay thank you for the help! I appreciate it! Still trying to learn and understand how engines work

If you want it stock, just put the wheel back on using the key, it will work that way.

Both

.000" up to .003"

You want ignition timing between 32-36 (every engine is different I what works best). You need a degree wheel.

@@MrParafax ok cool thanks for the reply, from what i was reading some of the aftermarket flywheel are already set for like 32 deg

It may be going lean. Check for air leaks. The plastic spacer, if you're using one, can crack. Stock muffler?

You'll need to change your timing as well.

Mike Allen stock muffler yes. Plug keeps fowling so doubt lean condition. So I'm assuming adjusting timing to 36deg is solution?

charles janssen i would set timing at least 28 degrees btdc.

@@MrParafaxTHIS IS A dumb question but what is bottom top dead center? Top dead center i understand . Is it where the ignition sparks? Just below tdc?

Alphamoto Been awhile. Probably stock crank, 308 cam

Ya just saved me $20+ dollars on a timing light I can't really afford.

Don DeLaire I'm glad it helped.

Don DeLaire sweet!

Don DeLaire rotating the flywheel while keeping the crank still changes the timing. turning the flywheel clockwise makes the spark occur sooner (which is what you want). you do need a degree wheel.

So I just order the 32 cam, and springs and such to spec, and adjust the flywheel?

Yes, sir.

clockwise=sooner=increase in number from btdc? Yes? I think I follow now.

Don DeLaire yes. the spark will fire sooner burning more of the fuel.

Don DeLaire no. It hits just before, then turn it the other way and it hits just after. between the two is tdc. I have a better way of showing this now. I may redo the video

( ; ) ) I'll subscribe and keep muh eyes out for it.

Don DeLaire it's difficult to describe something like this via text. pictures and video work best. I'll see what I can do for a new video in the coming week.

Thanks, Mike, for all the help.

Don DeLaire any time, Don! Hope you have a great night! Keep me posted.

I know you can advance the timing with diff shaft keys, but if you buy the proper parts, shouldn't it run right? I'm building up a predator 212 with billet aluminum, better cam, and 18 lb springs.

Don DeLaire Good questions! Knowing where you're timing is at helps with diagnosing an engine that won't run. Flywheels can slip even with a key installed. In racing applications timing is extremely important in order to get the best performance. When you buy an engine new, used, our freshly rebuilt you don't know for sure where the timing has been set. Timing is as important as knowing what cam you have and what is best for your application. Timing would be different if you're using gas vs alky or if you're using the engine for general use vs racing...By the way, this same process to set your timing as well. offset keys are okay. We never use them. Our flywheels are set without them. We feel the pose a greater risk of the flywheel slipping. Instead of a key we lap the flywheel onto the crank, set the flywheel where/when we want the plug to fire, and torque it to 60 ft-lbs.

Thank you for your help, that totally cleared it up for me. As I'm getting all new parts, I opted for a performance cam that's 32 degrees btdc with the corresponding billet flywheel that's keyed 32 degrees btdc. I found the 32 lb springs the cam calls for and just need to find retaining rings and rockers strong enough, and stainless steel valves.

Don DeLaire We set our stock racing engines at 36 degrees. We have the SS valves, aluminum retainers and keepers for those springs. We don't carry the rockers. A great website to find info and parts is Poboys Greasy Nails Club on Facebook.

What differences are there from 32 btdc to 36? I'm putting my Predator hemi on a 26" bicycle, so I don't need the crazy torque of a race cart, I'm just trying to achieve awesome acceleration and top speed.

I don't understand how the cam would 'fall off'...taken out? ignition timing is based on the flywheel in relation to the crankshaft position

I took the oil sensor out and the cam fell out is it ok just to put back in

+Gregory Garner just line the mark on the cam gear with the mark on the crank gear. put the cover back on, tighten to 17- 20ft lbs.

+Mike Allen thanks

+Gregory Garner any time

It was titled incorrectly. Should have been 'checking' timing. You sure are sharp!

Mike Allen I'm still looking for how to install the timing key. Can i just take off the flywheel and automatically know where to install it?

+verdebmxer47 Not dumb at all! We've all started this way. Ask away. There will be some who will turn you down for info. Whatever it is you need its out there. You just need to do the footwork to find it.Yes. To meet the rules the rod has to be stock. Technically, the motor is considered stock, even though the head is milled, seats and, likely the valve were 'touched', cam being reground, maybe the block being decked, rings worked to fit/seal for performance. Some people even lighten the wrist pin. We don't. So, 'stock' is relative. LOL.We've found that they don't last long over 6400. Those 18# springs are worth a min of 6800. That's too much. You need a billet rod. For nothing else, do it for safety. Same goes with the flywheel.

+Mike Allen ok cool! I appreciate you replying to my question and helping me out!

+Niko Antoniou A new cam (CL1) for racing, header, carb rejetted, timing set to 30 or 32 btdc, cylinder bore honed to provide .003" piston-wall clearance, rod honed for .003" clearance to the crank, extra gasket on side cover to free up the crank, better valve springs, valve spring height set to .815", oil sensor removed... that's the basics. Thanks for asking. Visit my Facebook page - Clone Engine Parts Online. We offer many of the GX200 clone parts. Its easier for me to respond to questions as well.

Sounds like a fuel problem. Possibly an air leak or maybe the gasket is blocking the low speed circuit. Recheck the gaskets and check for leaks. Also, what's the history on this engine? Has any work been done to it?

And Merry Christmas!

Not sure it came with a go kart I got and it had that problem already but I've checked the gaskets and they look new so did the carb inside and it's getting plenty of flow from tank to bowl but seems like it starving for gas when I accelerate the pedal but not when I do it from the governor it does fine

How is the throttle hooked up? Are you revving the engines under load (ie. Sitting in the kart) when throttling with governor and pedal?

The throttle is hooked up with a spring to the governor arm and the arm is connected with a small rod and spring to the carb and it won't accelerate either way off the ground or under load but if I move the governor arm it will accelerate that way

Greeting! And Merry Christmas!! Yes. I was a little shy. I'm getting better.

Timing is not set in stone. Removing the flywheel key will allow you to set it anywhere you want. To remove the key you'll need to remove the flywheel. After removing the flywheel, you'll see there is a piece of metal set into the crank to help line the flywheel up. Removing the metal piece (the 'key') will allow you to set the flywheel at any position. Becareful not to set the timing too far advanced or retarded as the engine will not run/run poorly. Most racing application you want the plug to fire earlier (advancing the timing).