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Watching it back adds such a new perspective!!!

One sign 🚩that a boyfriend is Toxic is he doesn’t give eye contact!

If your child won't talk to you, it's your fault, and you are such a coward you can't even begin to look at yourself

I am estranged from my mother. Her choice. She chose her cult over her child and grandchild. She was shocked that I refused to play by the cult rules-can’t be seen in public with me lest someone in her cult may see. It’s been over a decade and I am still told by a family friend that she doesn’t understand why. I refuse to play the dirty secret.

My adult child still thinks I owe her things like nurturing and acceptance of everything she does. She is 40. I don't owe her anything. I love her and WANT to give her those things but I don't owe it to her.

Lol with Netflix you're already paying for it. You might as well utilize it. That's different from some of the other things you're taking about.

My heart goes out to everyone experiencing family estrangement. I attended this Zoom chat and found it distressing that these women pitched a $600 course on healing from estrangement at the end, saying that one person found it so healing that she planned it for a second time. Each participant described her background; no one is a mental health provider. They do not have any educational or professional experience that would justify this high priced course. The standard co-pay for individual therapy is $20/session. $600 would be the out-of-pocket cost for 30 sessions. Licensed mental health providers offer many types of group therapy; the typical cost is $20-50 per session if they’re not covered by insurance. My therapist leads a short-term trauma group for $440. She has led the group for seven years, after working as a biomedical scientist studying trauma for 20 years prior. People who are isolated due to family estrangement are vulnerable. The online course was ‘oversold,’ in my opinion. (After three requests, this group removed my number from their text list). I’m wary of any person or group that claims to have the answers on healing someone while soliciting large amounts of money. What is your refund policy? How was this class developed? (Did you consult with mental health providers?) You stated the course was new. How do you ensure that the content provides mental health benefits, rather than distressing isolated people? I encourage anyone experiencing family estrangement to try free peer-led groups or groups run by a licensed therapists. Also, it's helpful to read books on family estrangement and books about any mental health issues that relate to their estrangement and family dynamics.

My heart goes out to everyone experiencing family estrangement. I attended this Zoom chat and found it distressing that these women pitched a $600 course on healing from estrangement at the end, saying that one person found it so healing that she planned it for a second time. Each participant described her background; no one is a mental health provider. They do not have any educational or professional experience that would justify this high priced course. The standard co-pay for individual therapy is $20/session. $600 would be the out-of-pocket cost for 30 sessions. Licensed mental health providers offer many types of group therapy; the typical cost is $20-50 per session if they’re not covered by insurance. My therapist leads a short-term trauma group for $440. She has led the group for seven years, after working as a biomedical scientist studying trauma for 20 years prior. People who are isolated due to family estrangement are vulnerable. The online course was ‘oversold,’ in my opinion. (After three requests, this group removed my number from their text list). I’m wary of any person or group that claims to have the answers on healing someone while soliciting large amounts of money. What is your refund policy? How was this class developed? (Did you consult with mental health providers?) You stated the course was new. How do you ensure that the content provides mental health benefits, rather than distressing isolated people? I encourage anyone experiencing family estrangement to try free peer-led groups or groups run by a licensed therapists. Also, it's helpful to read books on family estrangement and books about any mental health issues that relate to their estrangement and family dynamics.

Great intimate discussion!! Sorry I missed it- but loved watching it now ❤

So would it be considered unethical for a therapist to make bank over a decade listening to your problems but never helping you solve them especially when the client is an underaged minor and isn't aware they are playing the victim and they are still being abused so they still are being victimized? Does the therapist have an ethical duty to help the client or not? If not, what's the point of therapy? Furthermore, wouldn't it make a person more of a victim to never help them, but take any extra money they have when they can't afford food or basics further prolonging them to get out of an abusive household?! Also, would it be unethical for this therapist to not report the abuse, but keep taking the clients money and seeing them for 10 years? Also, wouldn't it be unethical for the therapist to not report a death when the abuser killed the client's grandmother when the client told her several times and even left a voice mail that the abuse needed to be reported to the police. If I reported it I would have gotten killed myself. The hardest thing to get over wasn't the abuse I endured or even seeing my grandma be killed, but how that therapist literally made a profit off of me being abused. As a result, I can't hire another therapist either. She certainly scared me for life. I did get a degree in psychology though. If I decide to become licensed I will help people get out as fast as possible not make money off of them by prolonging their abuse. That therapist could have gotten me killed. If I saw a good therapist I could have healed so early in life too. Is so hurtful when therapists are unethical.

I really really loved this segment. I always make a comment on this group. I want this channel to grow. Lisa you almost always comment back to me. Last month we had a back and forth about my son who has been estranged with no contact for 4 years. I have 5 children. I think the point I was trying to make that got lost in translation of a u tube video was missed. This child is way past angry. In the beginning he still talked to all his siblings. But as time has gone by that contact is almost non existent as well. I mentioned my daughter who had 2 stokes and a heart attack. And is also now legally blind. My son said terrible things to her during this time. Not because she had done anything to him per se. except that she remained in contact with me. Things like you deserve to have 2 stokes and a heart attack you r a terrible person. I hope your blindness last. And I hope you can’t take care of your children so they get taken away. He has said these mean and nasty comments to all of his siblings. Any of our friends. Basically anyone who still speaks to me or likes me. I told you last month that I did not want this child back in my life. Here is the biggest reason. I find myself defending his nasty comments. Telling people he is really just trying to hurt me you know?? But all my children r grown people. They don’t want to have anything to do with him anymore. They have had it with his mean and inappropriate conversation. You said your group is about love and understanding. I agree love your group. You do not take into account that my other 4 children want nothing to do with him they r done. So for me to take him back into my life. Would mean putting my relationship with my other 4 children at risk?? I can’t make 4 other grown people have a come to Jesus meeting. I can’t risk losing my other children for this one angry hateful child. But when I say I don’t want him back. You make me feel like I have not done the work?? Or that I don’t love him. By the way I still love him always have always will. This is the part no one talks about. When a child estranges or in my case goes no contact. A whole family is put in turmoil. A whole family is forced to make choices. Do I invite him or mom and dad. You can’t have both. My other children have always taken the position I will not make that choice. I love both of you. Yet this child has not come to one of their triumphs. IE. wedding birth of children, nieces and nephews birthdays. Also not come to their tragedies. Death of their grandparents loss of childhood friends, illnesses sickness nothing. I never hear anyone talk about this issue. When you go no contact with mom. That is usually the place the family come to celebrate or mourn. How do you deal with this??? I have spent most of my time explaining to the other four children. That he is angry, and anger can be a bad look. I have even said he lacked something in childhood that I almost said should have. Wish I had done better. They all say the same thing that’s between you and him. Had nothing to do with us. So how would you or any of the members of your lovely group handle this??

You are not alone. Sending much love and healing. ❤

Going no contact is an excrutionatingly painful decision after all efforts of reconciliation have been exhausted. Adult children do not self-orphan with glee.

Cheryl, by your own words you failed to protect your child from an abusive alcoholic spouse, and when invited into her therapy you lied about your feelings to your daughter and her therapist, yet still express frustration with her? Do the hard therapy journey yourself and stay away from her unless or until you do.

Dear Wounded Souls, We love the positive commentary and are glad you feel comfortable sharing your estrangement journey with us. The intention of this channel is to listen and seek to understand one another. If any disrespectful comments are left, they will be removed, and the author will be banned. It’s okay to disagree, but bullying and blatant rudeness towards anyone on this roundtable or bullying anyone who leaves comments does not serve a higher purpose and will not be tolerated. Thank you for understanding.

“I apologized even if I didn’t agree with any of it.” Stopped with this statement because no need to go further. If you went along with what was discussed in therapy even though you didn’t agree with it, then you lied. You lied in therapy and that’s why therapy isn’t useful to you.

Dear Wounded Souls, We love the positive commentary and are glad you feel comfortable sharing your estrangement journey with us. The intention of this channel is to listen and seek to understand one another. If any disrespectful comments are left, they will be removed, and the author will be banned. It’s okay to disagree, but bullying and blatant rudeness towards anyone on this roundtable or bullying anyone who leaves comments does not serve a higher purpose and will not be tolerated. Thank you for understanding.

I am in a situation similar to Cheryl’s. I have been no contact with my youngest son for 5 years. I’m finding it hard to say and live in this new world. Working on myself and a good size family of my own without him. I don’t think that healing yourself is keeping a door open. Not angry or bitter. I’m happy for him and he has his own life and family. And seems to be happy. However in working on myself I have found I am less likely to reconcile with my youngest. It’s not an anger thing trust me my middle son Went no contact when the younger one did. We are just starting to communicate and working slowly on coming back. But when my middle son went no contact he was not disrespectful or vindictive. My youngest son was. I don’t want him back. I am allowed to have my line in the sand. My youngest went past my line in the sand. I can’t believe that I am saying this. I am still working on this part?? I would never have pictured myself as this parent. I’m the mom who always felt my kids could never do anything that would make me stop loving them. No I would always be there for them. I don’t want to take back my youngest son. I have no trust and no respect for that child. He said having a relationship with me was becoming to hard and stressful. I believe that maybe it was. Because what I have found my own life has become less stressful more easy and frankly I’m happier. No one talks about this. But when your child goes no contact. Then they risk not being able to come back. No There are parents out there that find happiness and become closer to family.I found that finally I’m happy. I’m happy without him. I feel the risk of taking him back is to big. I worked hard and continue to work hard on myself and the relationships I have. To me bringing my son back into that part of my family. Might mean chaos sadness walking on eggshells ect.. as I said before I really don’t trust him. Without trust there is nothing you can do in a relationship. So now I find myself wondering and feeling guilty because what kind of mom does not want their child back?? Funny how the table turns.

"The biggest mistake a parent can do is write an apology letter" ...... no, it's not. The biggest mistake a parent can do is refuse to apologise. If you can't recognise what you did wrong and can't deal with the shame that comes with that how on earth do you expect a positive outcome? Yes apologising is supposed to be filled with shame, THATS THE POINT OF IT. YOURE SUPPOSED TO SHOW THAT YOU FEEL BAD ABOUT WHAT YOU DID, YOURE SUPPOSED TO SHOW THAT YOU FEEL GENUINE REMORSE, YOURE SUPPOSED TO BE HUMBLED BY IT. its great that you recognise you have problems from your own childhood but how the heck do you expect your kid to heal from their childhood and reconnect with you when you want to focus on yourself and only yourself.

So was the daughter’s criticism valid? Did Mom find the root of that behavior and change it? I won’t let people back into my life until they address their bad behavior and change it because an apology without behavior changes just manipulation.

I am estranged from my parents. It is too painful to even talk to them simple because everything is always about them. They have chosen to live their best lives, which is fine. I recently had my first child and I would sacrifice everything to care for her. When I see a support group that says all you can do is love yourself it sends chills down my spine. You can also love your children, it’s not always about you. This is not meant to be mean, just honest, and my experience as someone who feels left behind.

Your mam can tell you she loves you but if her actions don't mirror her words in my opinion is meaningless. Just being Honest my mam has told me that many times but then has shown me no actions to go with it on the contrary her says I don't care about you.

Wow, I’d heard there were people like you making excuses for abusers and gaslighting people about how what they experienced ‘wasn’t really abuse’ but fortunately I’ve never come across it-until now I will be blocking your channel so that I never have to be presented with your self-centered apologist nonsense and hope the algorithm takes note Far more people were actually abused by people who “lost their cool” (hearing you say that made me feel physically sick to my stomach) and yet you want to label us “haters” 9:20 You asking people to “reconsider” “whether the stories you tell yourself are true” is such a disgusting example of gaslighting given the statistics on child abuse I hope your channel continues to receive very little attention because you are making the internet a worse place with your rhetoric, not better

When the young woman with bangs talks about how her family abandoned her, didn't believe her, didn't see that they left her in danger and she got hurt, i think i, too, would be afraid to call my grandma because she'll happily ignore that i got hurt and sided with my stepdad, only to say, "theres my pretty girl." Thats a whole lot of yuck. Her family kicks her while shes down. I cant imagine how many close calls or traumatizing things happened before the "estrangement event." Dismissive or covering types of family are really just accomplices and not family at all.

If your child has asked for an apology for specific instances of abuse that she remembers and doesn't understand, you can apologize. However, if you know you will be unable to sustain that kind of honesty and accountability going forward, any apology will eventually be seen as a bread crumb, and it would be. Good luck all❤

My mother did criticize my crappy art as a kid. She criticized everything and praised nothing. According to her, I have never once in 39 years on this planet done a single thing right. Yes, her parents were awful too, but having children is in fact a choice, and if I was so awful why did she have three more? If I was so untrustworthy and terrible, why was I constantly in charge of watching them all alone? I haven't seen her in 15 years, I haven't spoken to her in nearly 10, I live across the country from her, I'm slowly getting the rest of our family to stop telling me the nasty stuff she says about me, but it hasn't stopped. She's still complaining about my teenage years- I moved out 21 years ago. To be clear: I'm a homeowner, decent job, 2 degrees, paid off my student loans, saving for retirement, happily married these last 16 years, have long-term friendships and good relationships with our extended family. I've never had legal trouble - not even as a kid- and while I've spent a lot of money getting therapy, she doesn't know about it. I'm not really much different from my siblings. But I agree, there's no point writing letters, there's no point calling them up, there's no point sending grandbaby gifts. If you've hurt someone so bad they don't want to speak to you, the only thing you can do is be a decent person and hope the hurt lessens enough to renew the relationship one day. Right now, I've still got a scab on my heart.

My oldest brother who's married, had his mistress call me (he was probably standing behind her) saying he did not like nor love me and wanted contact. I said I agreed and I wanted nothing to do with his brothers. I wish I said, my brother is not a cheater, I don't know who you are, and I don't like being pranked like this, and then hung up. Sadly, this took me by totally by surprise, so I didn't have a thoughtful response. I should have called him and his brothers and asked what was going on. Presently, I have a working relationship with their wives, but not them.

Are there any father's?

Oh so good somebody told me to write apology letters for my own personal use but yes, I could see how I would just fill myself with guilt and shame doing that

This generation is too pathetic, too victimized, too spoiled. Rotten to the bones with, ungrateful, disloyal, betrayals. Makes me turn away from them. 2 Timothy 3:2-4 "For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away." Guess what? I have learned how to celebrate failure. Then keep going.😊

Wise words. I appreciate this channel and the work you're doing here.

Spending less time with family when you are in early adulthood IS normal. That's not estrangement, it's individuation.

Incredibly helpful and enlightening discussion. Thank you❤

I am one of the 85 million. In my case , there is no reasoning with a parent who has narcissistic personality traits. There is no working on the relationship when the parent does not acknowledge any wrong doing (and does not have a desire to change) . I can only work on myself and pray for my parents healing. Perhaps , once they have healed within themselves, then we can come together and work on healing the parent/child relationship.

Dear Wounded Souls, We love the positive commentary and are glad you feel comfortable sharing your estrangement journey with us. The intention of this channel is to listen and seek to understand one another. If any disrespectful comments are left, they will be removed, and the author will be banned. It’s okay to disagree, but bullying and blatant rudeness towards anyone on this roundtable or bullying anyone who leaves comments does not serve a higher purpose and will not be tolerated. Thank you for understanding.

Dear Wounded Souls, We love the positive commentary and are glad you feel comfortable sharing your estrangement journey with us. The intention of this channel is to listen and seek to understand one another. If any disrespectful comments are left, they will be removed, and the author will be banned. It’s okay to disagree, but bullying and blatant rudeness towards anyone on this roundtable or bullying anyone who leaves comments does not serve a higher purpose and will not be tolerated. Thank you for understanding.

Dear Wounded Souls, We love the positive commentary and are glad you feel comfortable sharing your estrangement journey with us. The intention of this channel is to listen and seek to understand one another. If any disrespectful comments are left, they will be removed, and the author will be banned. It’s okay to disagree, but bullying and blatant rudeness towards anyone on this roundtable or bullying anyone who leaves comments does not serve a higher purpose and will not be tolerated. Thank you for understanding.

Dear Wounded Souls, We love the positive commentary and are glad you feel comfortable sharing your estrangement journey with us. The intention of this channel is to listen and seek to understand one another. If any disrespectful comments are left, they will be removed, and the author will be banned. It’s okay to disagree, but bullying and blatant rudeness towards anyone on this roundtable or bullying anyone who leaves comments does not serve a higher purpose and will not be tolerated. Thank you for understanding.

Dear Wounded Souls, We love the positive commentary and are glad you feel comfortable sharing your estrangement journey with us. The intention of this channel is to listen and seek to understand one another. If any disrespectful comments are left, they will be removed, and the author will be banned. It’s okay to disagree, but bullying and blatant rudeness towards anyone on this roundtable or bullying anyone who leaves comments does not serve a higher purpose and will not be tolerated. Thank you for understanding.

Dear Wounded Souls, We love the positive commentary and are glad you feel comfortable sharing your estrangement journey with us. The intention of this channel is to listen and seek to understand one another. If any disrespectful comments are left, they will be removed, and the author will be banned. It’s okay to disagree, but bullying and blatant rudeness towards anyone on this roundtable or bullying anyone who leaves comments does not serve a higher purpose and will not be tolerated. Thank you for understanding.

Dear Wounded Souls, We love the positive commentary and are glad you feel comfortable sharing your estrangement journey with us. The intention of this channel is to listen and seek to understand one another. If any disrespectful comments are left, they will be removed, and the author will be banned. It’s okay to disagree, but bullying and blatant rudeness towards anyone on this roundtable or bullying anyone who leaves comments does not serve a higher purpose and will not be tolerated. Thank you for understanding.

Dear Wounded Souls, We love the positive commentary and are glad you feel comfortable sharing your estrangement journey with us. The intention of this channel is to listen and seek to understand one another. If any disrespectful comments are left, they will be removed, and the author will be banned. It’s okay to disagree, but bullying and blatant rudeness towards anyone on this roundtable or bullying anyone who leaves comments does not serve a higher purpose and will not be tolerated. Thank you for understanding.

Dear Wounded Souls, We love the positive commentary and are glad you feel comfortable sharing your estrangement journey with us. The intention of this channel is to listen and seek to understand one another. If any disrespectful comments are left, they will be removed, and the author will be banned. It’s okay to disagree, but bullying and blatant rudeness towards anyone on this roundtable or bullying anyone who leaves comments does not serve a higher purpose and will not be tolerated. Thank you for understanding.

Today's video made me realize a few things of comfort. It gave me hope that reconciliation comes with patience. That patience can be gained thru healing. That is the journey I have been on thru the course and understanding of myself better. It hit home that this estrangement does not belong to me. It belongs to my daughter who is in pain and learning. Another thing today made me realize that she has a choice and I have a choice. My choice is to become happier, healthier and more spiritual. For positive teachings and understandings this is the place to join. It was meant for me to be here at this moment in time.

Even the title is dismissive.

I changed beneficiaris. Thats what i did about it

Flying monkeys" is a term used to describe people who enable the destructive behavior of others, often in the context of narcissistic abuse. The term comes from The Wizard of Oz, where the Wicked Witch of the West puts flying monkeys under her spell. Flying monkeys can be people in the abuser's social circle who make it possible for them to harm others without being held accountable. They may do this by making excuses for the abuser, acting on their behalf, encouraging them, or shielding them from the consequences of their behavior. For example, in narcissistic families, flying monkeys may guilt-trip, shame, or gaslight victims or siblings. Narcissists may also use flying monkeys to spread lies and gossip about their victims, portraying them as the perpetrator and discrediting them in their social circles. This can cut victims off from their social support networks, which is a common manipulation strategy used by narcissists to exert control over them.

You're talking about triangulation 💛

Estrangement gives the space to attend to yourself when someone in your life is trying to control you with FOG (fear, obligation, guilt). I have been on both ends of it because controlling behavior is deeply programmed, and it takes a lot of resources and time to establish healthier patterns.

I think some defining factors here are something seems more likely or believeable if it has happened to you, and people who have been hurt by not being believed when they were telling the truth don't want to risk hurting others in that way. I will never know the truth of someone else's situation I wasn't there to witness but I don't want to contribute to someone's pain by suggesting they aren't telling the truth. Also older generations have definitely estranged or otherwise chosen not to take care of their parents, it's just that people are more comfortable talking about it now than in the past like most taboos. It is often hard to conseptualize options you don't know exist and not shocking that the more people that become aware of an option will choose that option.