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Yeah the more energy you have the worse it is lol, since energy is more valuable than cash. The thorgate opening is not that bad, you are paying 5 per TR which is good, the biggest problem is the upfront cost of the cards.

I think some of the the non expansion preludes are lots of fun and I will always play with them from now on, like focused organization, board of directors and recession. But the cards are all related to expansions and the corps are meh honestly. So I wouldnt buy it unless I had at least one of the other 3 expansions. On that note you should always play with turmoil, turmoil is awesome

@@marsuniversity-tm thanks for the information! I hope you have a great rest of your day :)

Hahaha no worries, you too

Hahaha it was kind of the reason I started the channel (watch the other ones). I got MSI coming next. If you want to do them you have my blessing though haha, the more mars content on youtube the better. Would also be nice to see some alternatives I didn't think of.

hahah now that is some fair criticism

I wouldn't say I play competitive either but i do play a lot. Physics complex can be great when it happens but it doesn't happen often and space hotels is a very good Eco builder but i don't think it significantly changes the game. I do agree about large convoy

Lol that was my son yawning

hahah no not that level

Not limited no, you can add new partner to that combo too. It's 7 preludes!

@@marsuniversity-tm that’s absolutely crazy! :D

Yeah I think I'm just unusually high on biosphere support, so you are probably right on that part, I still take it more often, I do go rich ground with tharsis and credicor more often than most people there. For donation I do think it's always solid, I'm just rarely unhappy to see it and like it much better than all the cards in mid tier. I think I've played excentric sponsor twice in all my steam games, I looked it and there are 20 cards that are 25mc or higher in base + venus + prelude (current steam). Of those most are unplayable or poor early. So its really IO Mining, Asteroid Mining, Space Elevator, Soletta and Immigration shuttles, and the last 2 aren't even that good. In some scenarios you can play Beam from a thorium asteroid, methane from titan and strip mine but you need help from your other prelude, and in some rare cases playing GIA, Deimos or Giant Solar Shade works, but you are usually better off saving those for later, the upside of 4mc just doesn't make up for how rarely you get to play it. Furthermore colonies only really adds 1 playable card (Earth elevator) since spaceport colony should be played after your first colony and ideally when you can afford to use a 2nd trade fleet.

I completely agree with you. Biosphere Support should be on the same level as Biofuels, even lower, and I would only take it for an Ecoline rush strategy. It is because MC production is very important early in the game. Regarding Business Empire - it's like Allied Banks + Sponsors, which is considered a useful card at the start of the game, so Business Empire is better. I would put Dome Farming in Mid after Aquifer Support. 2 MC production is great, but 1 plant production is low, especially if there's no other plant production. Although the tags on this card are good. Donation is definitely not an Always Solid prelude. It's a good prelude with a good and expensive starting hand, for example, when you have Earth Catapult. You can also take it with a poor corporation. Otherwise, you want to see some starting production and other useful effects. Mid at most, not higher. Plus, it's a prelude without Tags.

@@marsuniversity-tm Ok, you're probably right about the sponsor. But when it works, it's solid.

@@РусланГаянов-в9ф yeah I know I'm higher on biosphere than most people. Business empire is obviously better long term but it is tough to play for poor corps, so allien bank is way more flexible. It is nearly impossible to take with phobolog, very hard for ecoline. There isn't a single scenario where I don't like allied bank. You are right about dome farming and the 1 plant prod, but it the best plant prod prelude if you have at least one more plant prod or a way to get it. It is one of the best preludes for ecoline rush. You are right that those are he ideal scenarios for donation, but even outside of those scenarios Donation is pretty decent and very fleixble, it's never bad to have 21 cash you might see the expensive card come along in the next 2 drafts, If you are playing with colonies it's even better because you can afford your early colony or part of the enrgy prod with it. So it's actually always useful with colonies. It is the lowest floor of all the preludes except for allied bank maybe, so to me that means it belongs in always solid.

@@tomaszvexling Oh yeah it's great when it's great, and actually in colonies you have ice moon colony and solar reflectors which are both 23mc and totally worth playing with excentric sponsor even though you don't get the full 25. same with earth cat in base, so its a bit better though still low odds

I like the first idea. The second one might be too strong, too wild tags is very good

haha thanks, I have luna and manutech as higher but it is for sure in that broken tier.

@@marsuniversity-tm they both top 5 for Luna and Manutech , but personally Vitor is #1 , if by chance you get earth cap or strong science tag to place anti grave its really gg no matter what , Manutech can be strong with plans production its crazy good , as for point luna i mean that corp start slow but goddamn it godlike endgame. For top 5 corp (not counting colonies,turmoil ) I would say definitely Viron , Valley Trust , MSI or Celestic) are consider

@@illumina91 Viron is my favorite, the ceiling is insane, the floor is mediocre though. for whats in steam now I have only vitor, luna and manu in the god tier. I would add pristar and septem from turmoil probably.

@@marsuniversity-tm I played Septem and Pristar once each and won both game , with all expensions (except prelude 2 cause i didnt pre order it yet) its hard to get more game with both of thos corps loll , I am a big fan of Turmoil and Venus , Colonies great but as much I play with friends most of them not a big fan of Turnoil or Venus depending on who i play with , as for Prelude or Colonies they dont really complain as much. To talk about Viron my last game I had Predator , took a few turn of double Pred someone , he wasnt to happy ;) ROFL!

@@illumina91 Lol 4pt swing every turn that is painful, on my last one i had self-replciating robots down gen 1 and it was insane, 16 discount every other gen... I love turmoil so much but yeah it isn't as popular.

It is a annoying card for sure, people overestimate the card because it draws during the round, in your face😂

But you don't have to spend 5 early. There is usuallly empty parties. Just have to place your delegate there. Then remember the 5mc isnt just getting you the card, its getting you influence and later on TR and more influence for the chairman. 1 card a turn is an awesome deal even midgame. would you not play restricted area gen 4?. if you play it gen 4 it costs 14 + 2*6 to draw from gen 4-9. that's 26, using corriders starting gen 4 is 5*6 = 30. 4 more assuming you can never use your free delegate, and you don't draw additional ones, and you are still getting all tthe regular benefits of a party leader. It's insane.

Thanks! Yeah splice was fun, it's just too weak though

I mean yeah I mostly agree, but honestly even when I go jovian (maybe ever 3rd or 4thgame) TG hits like around 7-9, Large convoy is 6-7 like 90% of the time, so that's why i went higher with Large Convoy. I am also way more scared to pass it, so for example lets say I went Jovian and my opponent didnt and I see both in my draft. If I take LC I get 6-7 and my opponent gets 2-3 (but probably 0 caus ehe won't buy it) if I take TG I get 8-9 my opponent gets 6-7 so overall is better to take LC. That being said i don't have a big problem with flipping them and TG is way more fun.

I was hoping it would get some outrage clicks XD

Yeah true and true

Yeah it's just horrible it might be fully unplayable

Haha that video is actually ready and ecology experts is one of the hardest to rank. Its either useless or OP, but the useless scenarios are way more. Generally if i haven't seen my hand I prefer not to see it in my 4 preludes because there are only a handful of cards that it works well with, kelp farming probably being the best one.

@@marsuniversity-tm I agree, but I think that I’d still put it in game breaking because when it’s good, it literally breaks the game. Playing a one point animal or hi plant production card on GEN one can be absolutely insane.

once they played it on me with birds and i was ecoline. It was an insta loss. Anyway firsr prelude tier list video should be up in 2 weeks :)

I can send you my scans. just give me your discord

@@marsuniversity-tm El Lord Esti#2932

@@marsuniversity-tm thanks a lot

@@marsuniversity-tm it is El Lord Esti and the number 2932

Ok sent you a friend request

Yeah it buffs them, but they are still probably on the almost never usable tier, which means we mostly didn't get new wild tags

I don't play solo, but Idk it's still a terrible ratio

damn 50 games, I have 3. Have you tried brutal?

@@marsuniversity-tmI’m still on standard difficulty, until I play all the expansions. Then I’ll try hard. I always work my way up.

@@klaus3856 haha fair, brutal feels a bit hopeless. 10 point loss last time though

Ok but that doesn't really affect any probabilities.

@@marsuniversity-tm Probabilities? Sorry, I’m new to all this analysis.

@@minecraftinchocolate just saying removing the card will rarely affect anything in the game and it is a longer process, so it still wouldn't be worth it

Yeah It's decent. It's just in engine vs engine games, sometimes a player is card heavy and the other is income heavy, I wish each player had a party.

@@marsuniversity-tm Ok, for that purpose they should make more cards that move these two parties in different directions. Maybe we'll get them someday.

I don't think we can take many more cards haha. deck is huge

@@marsuniversity-tm Who knows. I hope that if we get any, they will be more interesting than vanilla promos.

I want promo colonies and parties

Yupe missread that. Bonus cards actually tell you what to do

I mean with that combo on the table 5mc every time venus get bumped every card that terraforms venus is now great, even the SP is playable. But yeah you could be setting up someone's stratopheric birds.

Haha that would be the anti combo

@@marsuniversity-tm yeah, probably the worst ever seen, even worse than playing fleet defense with advanced alloys. And the fun part is that it talks about actions, so the TR given by the prelude enables to use the corp action, but if you do that you spend 3 MC to get nothing so you're busted even at gen 1!

@@mars4ever Lol yeah it's suicide, gen 1 doesn't work.

I like the idea of more special tile and a corp based around it. Maybe it can score special tiles as cities

Yeah wasted potential sums it up. And yeah colonial envoys is more interesting cause the rebate is delegates, but the colony part is still meh. It's even worse because the number of colonies tends not to vary too much, it's usually going to be 1-3, so it's not even like a tag where it can be 10

@@marsuniversity-tm In case of Colonial Envoys it's just an interesting condition for the delegates number. I think it's fair the way it is. But still not so interesting interaction with the colony mechanic.

Yeah fair enough

If you max out the heat by mid game with a ton of prod left, you probably did something wrong. In my experience helion will lose to the Corp going green is they are both rushing, since greeneries produce more points. It will also lose out to an engine Corp if it's not rushing all 3 params since the ability is weak and starting cash is average. I think it is very strong for solo but my videos mostly refer to the 2p and 3p version of the game.

It is vanilla, it's just another way to get resources which is why I like turmoil so much more. It's still great in how it increases interaction and gives you and out when every card you see is garbage so I still use it. I think getting more crazier colonies like Europa would help, but europa is underpowered.

@@marsuniversity-tm i agree with you, i almost wish colonies allowed you to like trade resources or projects with other players directly or something. almost like in catan where you trade brick for sheep but this would be 2 steel for 4 plant or something

Haha project trading between players could be interesting. Like you could auction a card, might be a little crazy though

@@marsuniversity-tm i would like an auction system for cards lol but idk. turmoil is the best because it adds that player interaction. otherwise it’s a pretty isolated game until the later game

Hail turmoil

Thanks man I'll take that into account.

@@marsuniversity-tm you could also highlight the card you are currently talking about, but I don’t know how much effort that takes.

that will depend on how ugly it looks haha. A red square is probably pretty simple.

like perpendicular?. Haha my English has some limitations.

@@marsuniversity-tm Basically, but it sees more use out of math. It fits perfectly here -- Venus is basically perpendicular (orthogonal) to the core TFM mechanics. When you're doing Venus stuff, you're sorta playing a different game.

haha ok i see. it's funny cause if used side or parallel to describe hellas & elysium, since it doesnt add mechanics it just replaces existing components with variety, so i guess i can add orthogonal to my repertoire now :)

Yeah that's an option, problem is if no one goes for Venus it can really annoying. It'll be people doing the SP at the end to finish the game. I actually have a house rule to make it a little better. Check my top 10 house rules video :), it's explained there

@@marsuniversity-tm deal

If you’re going do that, the Solar Phase needs to be required.

Or you can just have a longer game :).

@@marsuniversity-tm the game does feel very similar whether you require venus terraform vs not venus terraform. i like long games though so idk

Yeah it's a great card for sure. 6 for a TR every turn is nuts.

@@marsuniversity-tm did it 5x I think

Lol sounds like a win

hahaha yeah too much work to add it though. They will be slower on the next video.

Hang in there haha!. I think you could have walked to Sweden and gotten it by now :(. Also if you got automa check if you are missing card B16

@@marsuniversity-tm Thanks for giving me the heads up, I will check :)

Yeah there's a few miss numbered ones too, feels like a printing error.

only very early if you have many other things, it's one of the biggest trap cards out there

I think it has synergy with everything. It's so much value, best prelude in the deck for sure

Yeah that sounds about right haha.

Yeah I have like 10 little booklets now lol

I've done the preludes and new cards. Thanks!

@@marsuniversity-tm But did you play it yet?

No, I people I used to play TM with don't live here anymore :(. I'm playing Automa tonight though.

@@marsuniversity-tm I feel you, bro :S My group now has jobs and families and noone takes time for boardgames. How is automa? Will you stream it or upload a video?

@@TheRealMrWolf Yeah I miss board game night so much hahaha. Ill make a reaction video after maybe a couple of games. Dont think a stream would be very watchable, it might take 4-5 hours. I I got some other videos coming up first though

thomasz it is then XD!. Yeah I have to make a video about the map differences too, there is just a lot to cover now hahaha.

Yeah you are right, wild tags too, but that is still too similar for me so I'm happy its gone :)

@@marsuniversity-tm yeah that's the case with all the removed milestones and awards, either they were too similar to another milestones or award, or they were linked to the map itself (for example like polar explorer)

What About manager? I wish they kept that one, it is pretty unique and not related to a map?

@@marsuniversity-tm it's just supposition but i think it's because this milestone is very random and will rarely be claimed, with only 11 (or 14) special tiles and nearly all of them with placement condition, it's rare to place 3 of them early enough to claim the milestone

Sure but it's not so rare if you are playing with fewer expansions. Could have also lowered it too. either way expansion is a great addition.

Honestly I haven't played with it that much so you might be right. I do think it's very high ceiling, I just thing it can also be a bit of a let down if people start blocking the science tags. What other corps has your group banned?

Yeah it might also be that we had very good rng in the games we played it so impossible to say for sure. I could imagine it being frustrating never seeing a science again outside of your start hand. We pretty much just removed the top tier and bottom 3 tiers in your list to make room for some of our custom corporations- the rest of your ratings line up pretty well with mine I think!

Fair enough, I'm thinking of taking out manutech, vitor and most of the bottom 2 tiers, I love Point luna, pristar and spetm too much to remove them

Hahah established methods + double down sounds interesting, but I'm not sure it's very good, you are right that the flexibility is the strength of the card, the overall value is not that good, placing colonies or oceans early are both very powerful, cities might be overkill and greeneries risky, it'll depende a lot on your other prelude i guess.

Yeah, I never play solo, but my guess is Palladin would be great for it, just need some plant prod to go with it. Ecotec though you can ignore the microbes and just get plants for plant tags, that and the plant prod should get you somewhere

Probably keep them where they are now and get rid of the outer cardboard.

Yeah much better quality, it's just the special tiles are harder to find. I guess once I start playing with them I might get used to them.