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60 years old. Doing Tani Otoshi since I was 15, never injured anyone. By the way, you don't do it propetly, shoulder control is off, unbalance is off, position is off, however, for how wrong it is, it will never be as dangerous as kani basami, for obvious reasons. I did use it back in the day, being conscious of the danger (and never hurted anyone with that) but it really required on point exectution and is a no go with those who would rather break a bone than falling, because they will have a leg fractured. Tani otoshi, if propetly done, is completely harmless. But you push and control the arm, go towards him and use his reaction, without "pulling" him down in a sort of a reversed yoko wakare. Properly done, is not more dangerous than a o soto otoshi. Leaving the shoulder uncontrolled results in sure hazard.

Leg grab techniques should be taught regardless if they can be used in competition or not. It's a part of judo.

Hurt my knee with that one. Thanks god it didn't break, but streched ligaments a little. Still hurts...

Rikard is a great judoka and a great teacher. His beginners program was adopted by the Swedish Judo Federation for a good reason. It's also an excellent program for any dojo that wants to attract new beginners. Highly recommended.

I think it doesn't get tested under pressure, unlike the randoris and the rolls and the fights in our combat sports.

They are prejudiced. And I think there is not enough data to say that submissions from kesa are as high-percentage as an armbar from mount or a strangle from the back. Plus, the rules allow keeping a mount or a back-take for the duration of the fight. So, we are taught to go for a different side control, and if we don't submit from there, we go to mount, and we are already winning the fight. From kesa, unless you can force a submission, there is no clear path to a win given the rules. If you keep the kesa for 20 seconds without moving, instead of ippon you will get a penalty for stalling. I tapped to a kesa in my last BJJ competition (big guy folded me with pressure on the diaphragm--couldn't breathe). Also have tapped in competitions from kimura, americana, and rear naked choke. They all work on me :-(

Thank you for the explanation.

Thank you for revisiting this topic. I'm in my mid-30s and want to start judo, and I want to be smart about it. This sort of content is incredibly helpful!

Excellent, show the real judo , kodokan judo and its pure lethality

The only time I do tani-otoshi is from a gut wrench / rear bodylock to eliminate the danger of falling onto a knee. I’d alternatively choose ura-nage if I’m throwing sutemi from a side clinch / perpendicular position.

such a great video, thank you, agree the existing videos don't explain very well even though it does seem universally agreed that this can be a very dangerous throw

Sorry, I can't really see the difference.

I wasn't aware of this risk but i believe i was driving myself far and low enough to avoid that. Still need to watch out though.

IJF is licking their lips looking at this video. They can't wait to find another thing to ban.

A couple more things. Freestyle Judo has had no gi divsions, so it can been done. If there was a good social media push to go with it I think people might be suprised by the potential participation (especially during summer months) and viewership. Second, unrelated to the previous point, I briefly mentioned in my other comment the social media connection. People posting stuff on instagram and youtube, Justin Flores, Craig Jones, etc. highlighting people is inspiring people to want to learn. Jiujitsu is very tactile people don't want to just sick back and appreciate stuff they see working they want to learn it and add it to their game. If you think this no gi Judo trend is a good thing keep in mind that it's "rise" is happening because of the social media stuff and BJJ people getting fixated on it all. I think teaching and focusing on good ukemi along with the no gi Judo would start to counter balance the danger. And starting discourse about which moves are too dangerous to do live. A lot of Jiujitsu people are open to banning exceptionally dangerous moves.

It feels like John Danaher and his students (current and former) teaching Judo techniques and using Judo terminology were a big apart of this dam breaking. John explicitly mentions it in interviews and instructionals and students go out and do it in matches and rolls that made it to youtube. Social media and instructionals inform a lot of what's going on in jiujitsu broadly. Also maybe Khabib openly talking about Judo led to people looking at his standup and his team mates' stand up through a lens of Judo instead of just wrestling. All that kind of primed people for Justin Flores, Shintaro Higashi, Satoshi Ishii and others showing stuff online and selling instructionals. I think Shintaro has talked about being suprised that he started getting more and more people asking for no gi stuff. Also at least some wrestling comps/orgs have banned Kani basami. There are some bad injuries you can find in videos of people doing it in wreslting matches same as other styles.

Great, all the throws we do at my BJJ academy.

tanni otoshi is a 1st day throw at my MMA gym..*safest throw in judo🔥

This has to be the best breakdown of the tani otoshi, I've seen.

that is super scary. wow

Would love to see how you can throw with a short sleeve t-shirt.

if you want to practice correct tai otoshi: insist on breaking the balance then drop suddenly your body, at the same time turn and use your hands/arms to guide the throw. with maximum pull and off balance there should be no contact between your leg and the partner's. this is the ideal tai otoshi, in practice (randori or shiai) you will need to hit/sweep your opponent's shin with your calf so he's only standing in one leg with no possible resistance and your turn will throw him. also in practice you will add makikomi that is will turn a lot almost looking at the roof to roll on the opponent/mat

Another excellent video, subscribed.

Great video about a way too underrated topic. Fortunately, I was taught this technique by a great teacher and I've always done it correctly. Unfortunately, I once met someone who didn't learn this technique the same way, and I had to have ACL surgery.

So.... throw done properly, safe (as safe any throw is) - done improperly, unsafe. That's pretty much true for every throw. Tani otoshi is a very effective, classical throw when done as per correct instruction. What we saw in at least one of the injury clips barely counted as as Tani Otoshi attempt - legs between his opponent's and sat on his ankle. I agree that there's some poor instruction, and poor judo taking place though - but that shouldn't mean that effective techniques, which are safe when done properly, shouldn't be taught, especially if there are instinctive versions that aren't safe which will be done otherwise! All the more reason to teach them correctly.

Liked the kast technique bravo👏👏

It's more than that. It's a un-budo type of a strike and not a grappling technique. It's using the ground to try to hurt your opponent; like intentionally someone against a wall.

Real black belts with knowledge and sense. I'm impressed, as many black belts don't have this forethought.

Wonder if you already have songs playlist based on your guests’ entrance songs 😄.

I say ban the move. I've seen many an injury with it.

I'm not sure what changed, this used to be a super common throw where I trained and I've never seen anyone injured. Hundreds of throws, maybe even thousands and no injuries. It seems something has been lost since then.

I have never seen this throw in practice. I guess if you resist the thrower will just fall under you?

I'd consider myself a Tani otoshi specialist and the key to mine is to start behind and actually circle step in front and block only the near leg. It should be an upper body throw not a reap

The key to safe Tani-Otoshi is imo that the leg that goes behind uke has to be stretched out an put flat on the floor. Never bent, especially not with the knee up. Thats how I was taught about 30 years ago an how i teach it till today. The key is what I call the "hurdle seat". Meaning tori sits down with his legs in a postition like when jumping a hurdle in athletics. Stretched leg behind uke. This isn't done only for safety, but because it makes the throw effective. Going all the way down creates strong kuzushi. The stretched leg on the floor prevents ukes backstep. When I learned Judo, this was basically common knowledge. And because of this, and because everyone (at least here in Germany) taught it like that, it wasn't even considered a dangerous throw back then. I get the feeling, that BJJ and bad examples on social media have spread the dangerous execution of this throw and the "proper" way as been lost a little. In my judo, this throw is very similar to Uki-Waza (uke thrown forwards) or Yoko-Otoshi (uke thrown sideways). In all three, the "hurdle seat" is key.

Great video

I’ve been doing the version in this video for years ruclips.net/video/O7MrRC55H98/видео.htmlsi=X2a2gnQJMDuDtPAS Now I am worried I’ve just been lucky not getting or causing injury

Great video! The injury examples and stick demonstrations really drive home how badly this throw can go when done wrong

my absolute fav in BJJ. I prefer a "superman punch" hold through the roll to control their shoulder and force the roll if EVERYTHING else is improperly done

super interesting details, very clear and helpful

I'd like to see a blog from you guys! Especially for technique differences, I feel that a dedicated blog post can go into more depth than Reddit posts can

Very interesting

It's like asking "how long is a piece of string?” It all depends on the individual. The problem with judo is that 99% of dojos teach only sport judo where everything is centred round competitions. I believe this is the main thing puts older people off. Most clubs have neither the inclination nor the time to offer other forms of judo like judo for self-defence as it requires a different approach altogether. Despite my age (60) and a litany of injuries after practicing martial arts (tae kwon do, boxing, wing chun, aikido, judo and kendo) for 40 odd years on and off, I am still super fit and fairly strong for my age. The most important thing is to look after yourself and know how to manage you injuries. The last thing you want is to get another injury, especially if it is avoidable. I have done judo before and absolutely love it but I need to find the right school where I can practice at a less intense pace and not with competition mindset. Or do I just go and do BJJ instead as the likelihood of injury at my age is much less?

Great observations when comparing BayArea Judo and SoCal judo styles. I would like to know/compare judo styles from different states like (Texas, Florida, Upper East Coast and etc) when local tournaments are held.

after hearing the other 2 parts i was waiting for this!

I am interested in Judo, but I am not 32, skinny, and don't want to compete.

I like the contrast of "They rotated 180 and put the opponent off balance, it's not a false attack" Followed by "I didn't watch every match - I got bored" I see a lot of people with these views, that the referees did a good job following the rules, but that the rules failed to penalize bad Judo.

Thank you both for having me on your show, I enjoyed it a lot.

My understanding of the Teddy's celebration is that it was happening around the time he was being swept by the Georgian. So if Teddy did it in response to that we don't know.

I love what you guys said at approx. 40 min. in about relaxing and using technique. I am almost 50 and starting judo. I come from a Chinese martual art background, i used to wrestle and box many moons ago. I want to understand technique kuzushi and classical judo. Im ok fit so, I will try do some randori but controlled. I am sick of what CMA has devolved into. I want to explore under some pressure how to relax and off balance my opponent.