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@@Only1damien in his fight with Lancelot maybe, idt that’s valid for his fight against Meliodas

@@Only1damien my thoughts on a LOT of this has changed, but I still do think King Meliodas is prolly stronger based only on shit we actually know

@@hellothere2460 I don’t think it’s entirely substantiated that Escanor only lost due to lack of control, that power is still something at his disposal and it wouldn’t make up for the fact of how easily Meliodas did take him down which wouldn’t change with more control, assuming Escanor knew basic magic reinforcement (which arguably wouldn’t matter given the grace should just be amping his durability automatically). Final Shine Escanor is different and I don’t believe the DK to really beat this Meliodas either, although that’s a video I’ll likely be making in the future. The statement from Zeldris is implying Meliodas was toying around directly against THE ONE as Zeldris states this after the transformation in which he’d be able to sense his magic. I don’t believe Estarossa > DM1 Zeldris to be consistent at all even remotely, even off like a very basic showing of when Estarossa used Cruel Sun against Estarossa and Zeldris hopped in the way; Zeldris took the same impact and yet didn’t suffer a coma and was seemingly perfectly fine not long after. It’s more off Estarossa having perhaps better resistance to things and having better lifting strength, but anything else I just don’t think is true. Yeah conviction does amp you in NNT, and he still got blocked by Zeldris physically afterwards. Zeldris jumped away and got hit by Divine Spear. And no, Chandler isn’t the only reason Zeldris lived, it’s never stated and Zeldris recuperated less than a second later. Even if you were to say Darkness amplified his rate of recovery similarly to how it does his strength, at best that’s 4x faster and as such would still be 3.2 seconds for recovery which is hilariously short. And TO Escanor can be stronger than a normal DM1 Zeldris that’s fine, even if there’s alternate ways I could wordplay that I don’t disagree with that consensus

@Abyss_8228 1) But it is how it is. I think, I can kinda explain, how it works. Imagine, if you haid a plain. You don't know how to fly it, and all you can do just ride it like some car. But after some time you learn how to make it fly and now you travel MUCH faster than it was. And as I mentioned before, it basically comes out just from the plot. Flash back Meli <<<<<< Post resurrection Meli. And post res. Meli literally says that he need to become stronger to rival Demon King. He was not strong enough to be even in the same tier, he literally says that. So what was when the main point of the whole plote, if Meliodas could just went AM in first place, and kick DK and SD? And why he said he need more power? Is he stupid? Of course not, he just got nothing on DK until purgatory arc finished Zeldris is just fraud. He was yapping on Escanor, like you got nothing on this war, go away, Meliodas is bad person and you should not help him, I will crush u, etc, etc. But Escanor just went 😕😡 and instantly breaks omnius nebula. Zeldris WAS saved by Chandler, because Escanor finger started to pierce him, and already got inside him, but during that moment Escanor transformed to small form. He was able to stand up quick, but only case of his regeneration and only case Escanor did not complete his attack Zeldris wasn't faced by cruel sun only case of two reasons. First he had basically cheat code from his dad, that made him completely immune to magic attacks. Second he wasn't even touching the sun, he was touching Estarossa. And still, Cusack, who is literally number one Zeldris fan states Estarossa to be more powerful. He surely wouldn't lie about that. And the thing that Estarossa was able to slowly stand up during pressure of AM Meliodas, while Zeldris was completely helpless also says a lot of

@@hellothere2460 I think it’s more equivalent to both the planes going full speed except one of them can’t steer. I’ll explain why Meliodas is still stronger than the DK physically in a vid but I’ve argued this with more people than I care to at this point so I ain’t arguing that point again 😭. That reasoning doesn’t explain Chandler supposedly saving him though? That just means Escanor did a level of physical damage before dropping the transformation, this being a conviction amped Escanor who immediately after gets blocked just fine by this same Zeldris. And I don’t think it’s even like Escanor was stabbing through him, it would make more sense for him to just have caved in his chest due to the impact, in which yeah Zeldris recuperated from it in less than a second. Yeah I think his cheat code makes it even more arguable, as that means he was still getting hit by the physical effects through Estarossa, and if he was directly touching it it wouldn’t harm him (think of it like a wrecking ball, it’s still going to be insanely powerful even if you’re standing on the other side of someone that got hit first). Cusack never states Estarossa is Zeldris superior, he states they’re on relative footing and this isn’t built upon and as such can have multiple equal interpretations. The darkness I believe I already gave my interpretation in the previous message.

@Abyss_8228 Meli isn't matching DK in physical stats until he got power up in purgatory. Escanor's finger was inside Zeldris body, case you can see blood, you can see Zeldris' muscle and skin in state as they were pierced But he still didn't got directly hited. It isn't something, we can use for his durability. Cusack stated it, I pretty sure it was as Estarossa leaved for commandments collecting. Idk, I didn't actually saw your point with darkness, sry. Can you explain it again?

@ and yet if you look at the panel where Escanor’s finger is in direct contact with Zeldris it very clearly HASN’T actually pierced his chest (bottom right panel of page 96, chapter 289), and instead appears to again have merely caved his chest in. This would also be consistent with the fact of Zeldris coughing up blood which is a trait primarily associated with damage to the lungs. Unless you’re arguing his Cruel Sun has no kinetic energy then yes, Zeldris would still have to be tanking a level of force from it, that’s how energy works and is transferred. The only time Cusack makes a statement comparing Estarossa and Zeldris is on chapter 236 (around the time Cusack is introduced, Estarossa is still out of commission), and his statement is saying they’re “equal in abilities”, which I just don’t think holds much value in most actual metrics as Zeldris has comparatively better feats. My point with darkness was Estarossa may be better at resistance to the effects or better at withstanding this specific effect (having better overall resistance or lifting strength, as Meliodas attack here is more similar to gravity in effect than an actual physical attack). This would make sense for Estarossa to just be physically more resistant to like demonic attacks as we see him take apparently no damage from Monspeet’s final explosion with his hellfire too.

@@M3rtyville at least Broly is explained and has actual reasoning to be this strong, and legitimately fights the main cast in their God forms. And yeah especially the Goku Black arc it’s horrible, watching ts for the first time it was prolly my favorite arc in Super but god damn it kinda sucks 😭 Yeah I’ve always been of the opinion that Vegito is superior, just for the sake of the video it’s significantly easier arguing they’re relative via this statement since other than that, there’s no DBS statements to work with saying the Dance is relative to Potara so it’s kinda cheeks 😭. I interpret the SSJ4 ~ Super Vegito as being relative amps rather than like Z Vegito somehow being equal to a Goku significantly stronger than End Of Z Goku who should already have surpassed him. I mean yeah you can argue Baby is thousands of times stronger and that it upscales Super Saiyan 4’s amp, I was being extremely conservative in this video saying shit like characters who stomped other characters are relative for the sake of getting to the point and lowballing. Even being generous to Cabba he’s at best not getting past an SSJ2 Kid Goku

@@Abyss_8228 I mean, it is explained but not a good explaination to justify that power. With the old Broly it was acceptable because of the Anime having the concept of the Legendary Super Saiyan and Broly destroying South Galaxy. While there was nothing like that for New Broly and the concept of Super Saiyan God making it very off putting that someone who beat up just crabs and spiders with no real battle experience can fight God of Destruction tier opponents. That is why its off putting. I know what you try to do. I thought I put my thoughts on it. It is possible that a GT Super Vegito can beat a Super Saiyan 4. We have seen Super's Super Saiyan Gogeta perform better than 2 Super Saiyan Blue's that are part of the fusion. And Goku struggling in SSJG against Base Kefla while SSJBKK Goku flat out lost to Super Saiyan Kefla. It may be questionable if Vegito and Gogeta in the same arc would perform worse than Super Saiyan God to be honest. With all the retcons and such, I wouldn't be surprised. Probably a narrative choice. I don't think the writers even think about stuff like that. Which would explain why Cabba and Vegeta are equal in base like they are the same tier and when they transform. Kinda like only a Super Saiyan can beat a Super Saiyan. Probably not worth thinking about power scaling when it comes to Super.

@@Alic369 I mean I don’t think they beat Yuta, he’s pretty concretely at least top 6. But Hakari, Uruame, Kashimo, hell prolly Maki, etc are definitely not as strong as people like to say (relative to like the disaster curses).

@@Abyss_8228 yea I understand why you think that the reason I said that was because it was stated that jogo and mahito on there own whould give kinjaku a hard fight and yuta is relative with kinjaku so together they win one at a time yuta definitely wins

@ I mean I think the narrative surrounding Kenjaku changed, as a lot leans towards him being an insane powerhouse later on which just couldn’t be the case if he’s getting packed up by the disaster curses (ISB Mahito I do think is honestly prolly around top 15 though so maybe if you do a little Mahito highball and a little Kenny downplay it can push that). I also do think Yuta is a tad stronger than Kenny but it kinda changes and that debate is very interesting on its own

@@crispy1691 they hate Gojo as well and wanted to kill Yuta for a while even though Yuta was deemed a special grade prior

@ They don’t hate his technique though. It’s not the person so much as the higher-ups having destain for modern techniques like Hakari’s and Nanako’s.

@ I mean to be fair Hakari’s technique mixes the modern era with something older than their traditions, with the domain lacking a sure hit and instead forcing you to fulfill conditions.

@ that it does, though from what I remember they still didn’t respect his technique and likely downplayed its power

@@crispy1691 I mean I don’t think he’s stronger than every grade 1 regardless, Kusakabe the GOAT can prolly beat him lwk

@@deathzcxt thank you man it means a ton 🙏 I don’t spend the most time I could editing my videos, but is there any PC software (preferably free) that you’d recommend as far as that goes?

@@Abyss_8228 Power director, friendly video editing for every skill, Promeo, templated video ads for social media (if u get a sponsorship this is amazing to use) Davinci Resolve, and blender if u ever need 3d modeling

Adobe Premiere Pro for the best professional video editor overall (it does cost money though but it can jumpstart u account a bit)

And Davinci Resolve for free

@@deathzcxt thank you

@@chaoyuli9583 thank you homie, always appreciated 🙏

@@Goku_crown I’m saying the statements regarding his absorption state that there’s just no need for him to turn SSG as he already has the power in base, implying it’s not going to stack (this being a statement from Toriyama himself in regard to Resurrection of F). It simply doesn’t make sense in context of the creator’s intent, and it arbitrarily breaks the standard narrative for the scaling. The God Ki characters are supposed to be on an entirely new level considerably above everyone else, if a significantly stronger Base Goku post-Black Arc can then be beaten by an Ultimate Gohan that’s trained for like a month, and go hand in hand with Krillin (idt Krillin is SSB level but Base is SOMEHOW represented).

@@Bruh-wtf-did-i-just-watch just imagine I put an image of the thousand yard stare meme here

Hakari beats every disaster curse what are u on

Bace mahito cold tank a dismantle from 3f sukuna with the intent to kill while jogo was stated to maybe be stronger then 3f sukuna bye gojo implying that jogo>=< 3f sukuna so bace mahito cold tank a full power jogos attacks

Who the fuck is Hakira

@ yo mama 👅👅👅

@@Abyss_8228 y'know that meme? "Leave me alone!" "Hakira-akira-akira" Don't mind me, I'm playin'

@@mikedanielespeja6128 he’s right, my Schizophrenia gaps my entire thought process on this debate

Suck suck little bro mahito touches✋🏼

@@user-adrsilva123 I’m not doing either of those verses, at the moment.

Please mahito I need this I’m kinda a culling games yuji victim and I need to prove to my femfans that I’m not your sex slave - hakari

I mean I think Yuji was fighting just fine before Nobara’s death even though he was beyond his mental limit, he showed no signs of his physical performance declining and he kept constant pressure on Mahito. I don’t think he was completely off guarded by the Black Flash, but you can argue he was more vulnerable to it because of being in a minor state of shock sure. And you can argue Mahito was “off guarded” similarly by the first Black Flash as well, since he was under the impression Yuji was out of the fight and as such wasn’t aware to guard against him (and as Todo was incapable of hurting him he likely wasn’t reinforcing his body against attacks either). Although I think both would be reflexively guarding from attacks like what Nanami and Todo do, with the CE simply reinforcing them unconsciously.

@@SansINess53 Cabba wouldn’t be wearing the pants even if he did, bro’s a twink 😭

@Abyss_8228 I meant wearing the pants by like not letting the person see and feel your energy.

@Abyss_8228 super saiyan god is strong but honestly, super saiyan 4 is even stronger considering full power super saiyan 4 is at the quadrillions of multipliers.

@@SansINess53 ah

@@SansINess53 yeah if you wanna go with Super Saiyan 4 scaling to fusion and not Fusion scaling to Super Saiyan 4, it can go WAY higher than I said in the vid

@@Brendenx5k why

@@Abyss_8228 quite simple my friend the speed Gap and the fact that ryu doesn't have RCT in the fact that kashimo pretty much has one shot capabilities besides EM waves which could be debated but of course this is just my opinion of course there are more reasons but I want to keep it small and not send you a giant text wall

or mid diff

@ I explain the speed arguments for them in their respective sections and Ryu ironically probably just has a definite edge, at least over base Kashimo. MBA Kashimo isn’t quantifiable so the only way you can even really argue that being above Ryu speed wise unless it’s just steelmanned. Kashimo doesn’t have any real one shot capabilities, the lightning idt is provably durability negation and the EM waves specifically only vaporize irradiated objects. I’m fine with text walls, but I should prolly make it more known that I prefer discussing topics over Instagram whether it be over text or call since arguments can have the evidence provided in the moment and in call it’s easier to get points across, but I’m fine discussing on here too

@@Abyss_8228 ok 1 kashimo ightning bolt is a one shot to the Head this was shown in the hakari fight if no one has RCT like hakari they will die one hit to the Head not sure if you know this but when kashimo enters mythical beasts Amber he requires less hits to get the sure hit lightning the requirement is only 3 and ryu doesn't have RCT 2 it is true that its stated that the EM waves vaporize any irradiated object a object could be a shirt or what kashimo did the ground so what's stopping kashimo from irradiating ryus head or his arm and blowing it up 3 kashimo was able to Blitz sukuna and sukuna was able to Dodge base kashimo pretty easily which if you believe the that hakari is relative or stronger than yuta that means sukuna is going to be able to do the exact same thing to people like Maki and hakari and kashimo was able to react to the world cutting slash while being airborne while firing out a attack and before you try saying something about the warning the warning does not matter kashimo was still in mid-air and you still need the speed to react to it which he had that and Ryu is not dodging World Cut or even reacting to it

@@Nothingherelilbro it evolved from the old-ish debate of Cabba vs Cell Games Gohan, but the Cabba glazers decided to kick it up a notch this past month or so and start like legitimately trying to argue Cabba beats SSJ4 Gogeta.

@@lordzcy6777 I’m fine with the boost to base being a temporary thing, but it being something that has effects on the long term simply doesn’t make sense and devolve the story to an even weaker level (to be fair the Goku Black arc does that even worse). And no I don’t see why anime Goku from the same timeframe as Battle of Gods would be stronger than the movie variant, nor does the evidence like debunk my own claim, even if we’re to like steelman your argument that it’s retaining the power yada yada, this would be applying to the movie as well, and in turn GT Goku.

@@oceanwatterr you serious?

@ no it’s a meme. The whole Cabba v gogeta thing is. I don’t know why this dude even made this video and why the rest of the comments take it seriously.

@ that line is a meme sure, what’s wrong with him making a video about it? It’s a genuine debate ppl have

I made the video BECAUSE so many people actually think it’s a serious debate and that Cabba stomps, it started out as a meme but plenty of people view it as more at this point

@ yeah I hadn’t realized it was GT gogeta. DBSB gogeta obviously slams Cabba, GT Gogeta is actually with a video

@@DruidGoblin not what I was saying at all, just that the series directly contradicts the statements made during that arc and the creator’s own statement is made in a way that can’t apply to the rest of the series Good job appealing to motive after strawmanning my argument

@@DruidGoblin smartest dbs fan

Dude GT gogeta would scale in all scenarios above cabba. it isnt even close. especially considering that there are literally no exceptional feats that DBS goku did that would surpass GT. macrocosm feat by DBS : done by buuhan in Z Anime continuity Goku exitisting in a realm without time like in zamasu arc : done by kabito kai in GT and done in meta cooler movie that i canon to GT as a toei continuity. Goku GT even oneshotted the subspace realm which states in guides to have no concept of space or time. baby vegeta alone affected whole instant transmission realm that works i no time by the scans and logic. tbh GT goku in just beginning of black star saga surpassed his ssj forms multiple times. in baby vegeta saga alone he gets billions of time stronger. GT goku in base would be a threat to ssj2 cabba if we scale GT properly my dude. GT gogeta ssj4 on other hand would wipe floor with all universe 6 saiyans ngl.

He was never acting like the main character seems like you're projecting

@@orzen_the_orzoorzo7106 could you give a timestamp for that? That would make SSJ4 an even bigger amp 😭

@@ColdFishPiss I never said this debate is irrelevant, just that it shouldn’t have been a debate in the first place and that it’s stupid, and as such I gave my point of view on why it is as I claimed.

@@adamgtrap it started out as like a meme that sprouted from the Cell Games Gohan vs Cabba thing from a couple years ago. But people start taking it seriously and want to be different so they actually start arguing Cabba beats Gogeta. It really shouldn’t be a debate

@@daveyellick6685 eh, it provides more stable evidence than what some people may accept, as even though SDBH is officially licensed and can give us insight to narrative implications, most people probably just see it as “non-canon mean not applicable at all in any way”

Thank you!!!! It’s really that simple

So based off your logic every single user of every form would be at an equal level, Ssj Goku in super would be the exact same power wise as he was on Namek.

Why would ssj4 narratively at all be near blue?​@@Abyss_8228

Heroes is officially licensed but is not a credible source of information. Heroes contradicts Z, GT, and Super it is a "promotional anime" meant for a game.

Hit is an outlier and does not work the same way as other characters for power scaling. He's weaker than SSJB but uses technique to overcome that similar to Roshi.

@@latrellworthman4538 how is he stronger than Hit? And no he doesn’t really scale to God Goku, I explain my thoughts on that in the video. But yes I agree that the DBS main cast by late Black arc just slaughter GT, I just don’t agree with Cabba scaling to that

@@rubberwoody well tbf, Hit isn’t really much weaker than a SSGSS either

@@darius8214 there are universal feats in GT’s timeline. And Cabba doesn’t scale to high or even mid end Super anyways lmao I’m not “crying about GT”, I’m giving my take on why the popular consensus of Cabba winning, which was originally a joke but evolved further, is just a bad take.

Base goku shook the entire afterlife (which is a universal sized body) in BASE form Base goku casually destroyed a dimension. Now if you wanna sit here and say “it was already collapsing” then you could say that it would take full power from BASE goku to destroy it since he casually did it while it was crumbling. Shockwaves from baby’s revenge death ball traveled dimensions strong enough to send goku into a dimension supreme kai couldnt even reach. Ss4 scales higher than super baby 2 being able to manhandle him easily until he turn into an oozaru. So dimensionsal travel shockwaves cant hurt goku. Omega shenron was going to wither away the universe just by existing and gogeta was flicking him around. You could easily scale him to universal since king vegeta blew up three planets just by waving his hand and omega is centuries beyond him. The gt downplay is hysterical as the dbs fans dont know how to properly scale. The legit only characters in dbs that ss4 goku cant beat is hit, and jiren, as they have hax’s that transcended time or manipulate time.

@@trehundobeatz6359 to add onto Omega’s feat, his concentrated orb that Gogeta kicked away should just have that level of AP as it was the concentrated force of all the decay. Alongside this, Buuhan’s universe collapse feat applies to GT, but does not apply to Super as Super goes by Kai’s timeline and not the original Z’s.

@@Abyss_8228 yupp

@@trehundobeatz6359 don't forget that the revenge death ball was the hakai before the hakai since baby said it would destroy Goku to the point he couldn't even reach the afterlife. I have to disagree on GT not being able to get Hit's hax because Hit's hax stop working if you're at a relative or greater power level than he his, so if someone from GT can reach his level, they're good like Super Goku was.