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Excellent video!

Thanks for the video. I never thought of player order as a type of asymmetry, but there are certainly plenty of games where the action I take might be based on or limiited by my place in player order. And that can get more interesting/challenging in games where the players have some control over their place in player order. Also, I love Root and Dune: Imperium in all its forms. Arcs hasn't fully clicked for me yet, but I am curious to try it more.

What I like to do is take a level 0, 1 or maybe 2 game (like uno) and add extra rules to it until it becomes chaotic and strategic.

If you want a very highly asymetrical but balanced and competeive 1 vs 1 game, check out Re;ACT - The Arts of War! It's a fighting / dueling game where the characters you play as have completely different mechanics and rulesets. Shelfside has a great review of it! ruclips.net/video/mdQfHSW2Yw0/видео.htmlsi=zJil-OKSV9UfXOKv&t=492

It’s an interesting topic to analyze for people who like board games, but my critique would be that some of your points could be made more concisely. If you read back over your script you would probably notice that some of what you’re saying gets repetitive or is restated without much added detail. Keep it up!

Great video - I’d be interested in your views on asymmetry in Cosmic Encounter…

Oh you dont like assymetrical chess? Look up kung fu chess. Itsca flash version where there is no turn orderbut instead esch peacr has a cool down

Thanks for this amazing video. I’ve just started playing Nemesis and am loving the solo gameplay, I wonder where it would lie in the complexity, depth and weight scales?

Great video! But... doing the math, if you play the way you showed in the video, where Liberals play the perfect game, the "4 and 4" situation only has a 16% chance of happening. More fun stats: Getting to turn 8 only has a 35% chance of happening. On turn 8, the state with the biggest probability is 5 liberal and 2 fascists with an 18 % chance. The game with the highest probability is: 1 liberal 2 liberals - it looks like the liberals are winning it easy 2 liberals 1 fascist - fascists are on the board 3 liberals 1 fascist 4 liberals 1 fascist - the fascists are getting cooked 4 liberals 2 fascist 4 liberals 3 fascists - ooh what a comeback 5 liberals 3 fascists - and the liberals win!

Board game design video essay/analysis? hell yeah glad I got recommended your channel

I agree on the scratches and scribbles. The more defined "dragon script" I'll call it was alright in places, but then they went and mirrored it, which then made it not feel like written language at all.

Where does Android Netrunner fall in all this? I rhink the level of asymmetry is much higher than level 4, as the game systems are totally different between sides.

Man every single one of your videos is an absulte hit! Keep it up

I think the game sucks overly complicated werewolf. Not even worth the print and playable

Very nice video! I'd argue there's a level between 1 and 2. The example I'd give is snakes and ladders. You have turn order, yes, but you have additional asymmetry through the luck of the dice. However, unlike Level 2, it does not really compound or branch out.

Imagine if he started explaining the concept and then just went: "so to explain asymmetrical gameplay, let's talk about Vietnam first"

If chess doesn't have depth of 10 in your rating syatem, you don't fully understand chess lol. It's not terribly complex, you only have to understand 6 pieces, capture rules, checks, movement restrictions and a couple of special rules, but the difference in skill between the top players and new players is like Mike Tyson fighting a pre-pubescent karate student.

Is this video sponsored by Arcs?

Have you played Android Netrunner? I was hoping you'd cover that in the video. It's one of my all-time favorite asymmetrical games.

I think it’s really lame that you did such an awesome video, that got over a quarter million views, but somehow you only have 4.5 K subs?

Awesome stuff

Great discussion of the possibilities for this game design feature.

I do not agree with level 5. It seems off. I think these are different concepts. In level 4 you already have hidden information. On the other hand you missed level -1: Having a different brain/different knowledge is also kind of asymmetry.

I think a very interesting aspact of asymmetry is earned advantages and disadvantages. One of the big things that makes Neomath interesting is the fact that initative is controlled by the party with the least amount of party members, followed by speed of the members. Going first is often very advantageous and parties would intentional defeat their own members to get the initative.

i think you found your niche bro. this video and the complexity video are some of the best board game content I've seen on youtube

Great Video, Beautiful Camera Work, Very Clear, Awesome Work.

Root is a masterpiece. Ive been playing online for a few weeks after getting it on sale. Undoubtably my favourite board game ive ever played since every faction plays so incredibly differently with tons of different and deep strategies. My favourites have been the woodland alliance, the underground duchy and the vagabond (specifically tinker).

This channel is so cool love your videos man keep it up you deserve much more attention

Gloomhaven is the most overrated game of all time.

Root is my number 2 game of all time

Wow You have talked about most of my favourite games... I think we have the same tastes, from Blood on the Clocktower, Codenames, Dune Imperium, Root, to, I hope when I'll be able to play it... Arcs. Interesting channel, I'll follow

The Blighted Reach is honestly nothing short of a design masterpiece. It's a miracle it works so well. Even if you don't love Arcs, it's hard not to respect what it achieves

Great analysis. My biggest takeaway- there truly is no perfect symmetry for games when you consider turn order, luck, ideas of strategy and ultimately, the fact that everyone thinks differently.

This feels like 15 minutes of pedantry. These first 2 levels of 'asymmetry' are just 'turn order and players have decisions', which could have been covered in 5 minutes. Is this a high school paper where you felt like you needed to pad it up to 3000 words? I wouldn't consider either actually 'asymmetric'. If someone told me they were brining an asymmetric game and then pulled up with checkers... I would argue with them. Technically the 1st level of asymmetry is that we are different people with different knowledge if you want to get REALLY pedantic. Why stop at turn order and we can 'pick different things'? Chess for example is symmetric. While there are different openings for white v black, that is because they play against a different board state at the time of the turn. There are also different openings based on what everyone responds with, because the board state changes; NOT because the game is built to be asymmetric. I would also argue that your lvl 5 isn't really asymmetry either as both teams have the same info available to the whole team. Only if it was 'those with knowledge against those without' would it be asymmetric. Both teams have hint givers and hint guessers. *last edit* I do wish that you gave examples of bad asymmetry. You said that it exists, but never gave any examples or explained why they are bad.

the Linear "levels" do not translate quite that good, since you do not need the Prior Levels to access the higher(generaly). So some thoughts about that in 4 independent Categorys: I ) Changing Bord staits (Level 1/2): Turn Order (and how to change it) and the exclusion/Limitation/Changing of Game options. II ) Information(5/4): This point confused me a bit in your levels, since Level 4 requires Level 5.... additionaly there is the option of allowing/forbidding players to comunicate seperately (secret Diplomatie). Major points in this category that create Asymmetry are things like hidden Cards/Recources. E.g. many Card games (Poker) utilise this form of Asymmetry. III ) Fraction/Player specific rules(3/4/6): Well this was the main focus of your Video so most things were said about it. IV) And there is another aspect that creates Asymmetry which was not mentiond at all: Chance/Luck everything that includes dices or drawing (random) cards. There are games that use only some of the Aspects while other use all. e.g. many Cooperativ games do not realy use I) since the turns are done together while havyly reliing on III) or II).

Interesting video. To me, the COIN series are the true asymmetric games.

Surprised you didn't bring up hnefatafl in contrast to chess. One of the most OG explicitly asymmetrical games.

Excellent deep dive into asymmetry.

As someone who keeps only a very small number of games (25ish) that I dearly love, asymmetry (and the replayability it gives to game) is probably my favourite feature in games. Spirit Island, Gloomhaven, Gaia Project, Marvel Champions... you can play these games several hundred, if not thousand, of times without a repeat. We don't need new boardgames.

Hi! I think that if you title this video “The 5 levels of board game asymmetry” similar to your complexity video it would skyrocket the viewership. I love your videos!

Great video!

I don't know that I agree with the party game example like codenames being as high as it is. Simply because this is a team game and both teams are playing under the same ruleset, even if different players have different roles. From a winning and losing standpoint, there is very minimal asymmetry.

But for a TCG card game, how could I balance it ?

“A balanced game does not mean it’s symmetrical” Louder for the people in the back

Only to the turn order section, but Splotter games live and die by turn order. The fact that they have games where you want to be last makes you think in such a different way (FCM). Or Horseless Carriage where if your first for one part of the round you'll be last for the next part.

Your definition of asymmetry is incorrect. It doesn’t have to do with encouraging different decisions, it has to do with players having different starting abilities/disadvantages The more different the abilities and disadvantages the more asymmetric the game.

Asymmetry is one of the hardest things to do well and one of the best things when done correctly. An asymmetric game MUST be balanced. (E.g. equal skill means equal chance to win regardless of faction) if they aren’t balanced then you no longer have a game.

Your channel is the best one worldwide about board games, keep rocking!

What about go for level 1? The 6.5 komi is there to make the game as symmetrical as possible.

What a beautiful and inspiring video. Not sure how I landed here, but it came at the perfect time, as I'm trying to design a deck building game with a similar level of asymmetry to Root. Thanks a lot!