Видео

Hi Peter! I'm so sorry to hear about your dystonia symptoms. I believe you're right that the problem is at the level of the brain: the approach I use involves creating new neural pathways through intentional movement. It sounds like when you move both of your arms, your left arm can "copy" your right arm (which means it uses a different pathway from the dystonic one)--it's a great technique! Yes, I have a very German-sounding name! I don't speak the language, though, unfortunately. ☺

@@norakrohn Hi Nora... concerning my "moving both of my arms". My interpration is: The dystonia on my left arm disappears when I am moving my right arm because the brain or parts of the brain are focused on moving the right arm. The brain is distracted and is not able to conduct the dystonic moves. If I stop moving my right arm, the dystonia in the right arms comes back... Maybe, your interpretation is also right :-) Greetings from Germany. Peter

@ Sometimes I think of dystonic limbs and digits like misbehaving children...it's more effective to place our attention on the well-behaved children and hope the others will model their behavior than simply yelling at the bad ones to "stop it!" :) Then again...I'm a violist, not a child psychologist!!

Mil gracias Ernesto! Me alegra muchísimo escuchar que estás teniendo avances con la información que comparto. Te deseo mucha suerte en tu recuperación!

Un placer!

Such a fantastic observation. I have found that the precursor to accessing the right "blueprints" for our movements involves finding a fresh, spontaneous somatosensory experience of the areas of the body that have "disappeared" from our brain's map. Once we acquire that more complete sensory image we are often able to access the Route B movements much more easily.

@@norakrohn I love it! It's interesting how similar the world of chronic pain and neuroplastic symptoms are to dystonia. Reading about "somatic tracking" for chronic pain from Alan Gordon's book (The Way Out), really helped me conceptualize this abstract process of 'feeling' and put it into practice.

My pleasure, I'm glad they're helpful! I actually didn't have issues with typing, but many people I work with do. The approach to typing that I use comes out of the Taubman approach for piano, and they actually have a whole program for typing: www.healthytyping.com. But some starting tips: 1. make sure the keyboard is not too close or far away and at a height where your hands can rest uncurled on the keys with a roughly 90-degree bend at your elbow, 2. make sure that the wrists are aligned and not breaking in an up/down or sideways direction, 3. Walk "forward" onto each key from the forearm, with the entire finger/hand/forearm unit rather than freezing the arms/hands in space and using isolated the finger movements, 4. Let go, move the finger/hand/forearm unit, and repeat for the next key. Hope this helps a little!

@@norakrohn Thanks, Nora!

I'm so sorry to hear about your dystonia and hope the videos are useful in some way. Wishing you the best.

@parksoo-kim6908 Thanks for your question. I personally don't use the word "cure" when it comes to focal dystonia, but in my experience it can be overcome such that the dystonic symptoms gradually lessen and disappear. I don't know anything about deep brain stimulation and am not a neurologist, but from a personal standpoint I would also be eager to try all other options before resorting to brain surgery. I hope that's helpful. Wishing you the best.

Un super gusto trabajar con vos, Flor!! Te felicito todo lo que lograste y me alegra tanto que podés seguir con tu profesión y tu vida. 💜💜💜

Claro que sí, será un gusto apoyar tu proyecto como pueda! Gracias por averiguar. Y te mando mis mejores deseos para tu recuperación.

@@norakrohn Muchísimas gracias, Nora!! Podrías darme una mano permitiendo que comparta en comentarios un Formulario de Google con una encuesta breve para después poder tabular los datos. También, si querés, podés contestarla vos misma (es completamente anónima, sin ningún tipo de dato personal, y sería una enorme ayuda). Nuevamente, te agradezco enormemente por tu gran predisposición!!

@@estebanbiennati7481 No hay problema, contás con mi permiso. No sé si hace falta cambiar algún ajuste de mi parte para que te lo deje compartir. En el caso de que sí, me avisás!

@@norakrohn Muchísimas graciasss, genia! Vamos a probar, ahí lo paso EDIT: Lo subo como comentario y lamentablemente se elimina. No sé si es algo que se pueda configurar en YT o no sinceramente. Si tenés alguna vía para enviártelo, como un mail, y capaz lo podés compartir en comunidad, y completar si querés. Ahí le podemos encontrar la vuelta. Nuevamente, SÚPER GRACIAS!!

@@estebanbiennati7481 Te pido disculpas por la tardanza, estaba de viaje!! Si me mandás el formulario por mail (en mi sitio web hay un link) creo que lo puedo compartir en comunidad, dedos cruzados! 🤞

Gracias por tu comentario, aunque obviamiente siento mucho que estés lidiando con distonía. Si no has encontrado todavía el trabajo de Jan Kagarice (trombonista) tal vez ese sería un recurso valioso en tu proceso de recuperación. Te mando mis mejores deseos

@@norakrohn ok,muchas gracias

In my experience this isn't a good strategy, which doesn't mean you won't see fantastic players doing it. :) You can experience this for yourself by touching your nose, then stretching out your index or pinky finger to the side. Does it feel less tense, or more?

Hi Kevin! Yes, all of this information can be used to put the brain and body on the right track even if we're not injured. And in my experience the brain is capable of learning new patterns at any age if those patterns coincide with the way the brain and body are designed to function.

@@norakrohn Hi Nora thank you for your reply and that is good to know and very helpful.

Gracias por tu comentario, lo tomaré en cuenta! Por ahora te sugiero que eches un vistazo a este video sobre ese aspecto del Till Approach: ruclips.net/video/kmdJLCzag44/видео.htmlsi=c-ikpkCIGwCkoE5Q Saludos!

Hi David, I wish it were possible to answer this question in a RUclips comment but unfortunately it isn't...in my experience the answer lies in learning a new approach to technique that honors the body's natural organization and physical logic, which takes time and (often) expert guidance. The dystonic symptoms go away when the dysfunctional system holding them in place is dismantled. Wishing you the best.

Hola Miguel! Claro, me podés contactar a través de mi sitio web: www.norakrohn.com/contact

@windy110 The answer to your question is that the technique builds step by step, starting with being able to hold the instrument and then moving toward engaging the string (or whatever mechanism you use to play the notes of your instrument) and toward what we call Walking Hand and Arm, which is the basic moving mechanism. In general, continuing this progression on one's own is extremely difficult and full of potential pitfalls--I say that not to dissuade you or in any way pressure you to seek guidance if that's not what you want. I'm just being honest about the fact that it usually takes knowing the path well in order to keep our brains and bodies from straying from it, and that's hard to do if we don't know it already! You may find this video helpful: ruclips.net/video/kmdJLCzag44/видео.htmlsi=f0uzxyZvW4ukriSn. There are other videos on the @TillProject channel that could get you further along as well, although you'll have to adapt the information if you play another instrument. One thing I can tell you right away is that if you are thinking of "moving your fingers" that's actually the wrong approach. You'll see in my videos that we're actually designed to bring an entire finger/hand/forearm unit from place to place (try touching spots on your face and you'll see what I mean). So the way to start experiencing that on your instrument would be to put your brain in your forearm and move from there rather than from your fingers. In the end the individual movements of the fingers are of course part of the experience, but in order to get out of pain and injury first we need to connect them to the forearm and understand that the forearm is always the motor. I hope that's helpful.

@norakrohn Thank you for the response, it was very helpful. I got a couple more questions if you don't mind. While moving the arm as one unit, am I suppose to move at normal speed or slowly? Do I focus on the touch sensations in the fingers or do I disregard them? The "resting down" feeling, should I focus it on the fingers, or the arm? Are there any signs that can tell me if I'm doing it right or wrong? Is it ok to feel a little bit of dystonia while you move the arm as one, or should I always aim for no dystonic sensations? Is there a recommended amount of retraining I should per day? Or can I do as much as I can? Is there such a thing as doing too much? Thank you in advance.

@@windy110 Tough questions to answer over RUclips comments but I'll try! :) The best thing, if you are able, is to have one-on-one lessons. - if moving the arm slowly helps you become aware of how you're using your arm and what you're feeling it's fine to go slow; eventually all movements need a certain amount of speed/momentum to make sense (think of walking for example...you can go in slow motion to really focus on what you're doing, but you lose the propulsive quality of your steps) - "right" and "wrong" are hard to sense for ourselves when we've gotten as confused as most people with dystonia are, which is why one-on-one lessons are so helpful, but if the movement feels similar to movement in the other arm or with a different object that's generally a good sign - focusing on touch sensations can be helpful or unhelpful depending on the context: if the sensation is bothersome or distracting you can just try to focus on moving the arm as a unit, if the touch sensations help your brain "see" a part of the body that has "disappeared" from our awareness then it's helpful - resting down is felt in the entire arm, the same way our arm feels at rest when we put our hand on a shelf or our opposite shoulder - dystonic symptoms are a sign that the brain's strategy isn't 100% accurate or complete, but that doesn't necessarily mean the element you're working on isn't correct; it may just need more repetitions of the right "blueprint" or there may be other elements that need to be learned for the symptom to diminish - especially in early stages, 10-15 minutes a few times a day of repeating the correct movements is a good amount of practice; too much is unnecessary and will tire the brain and/or risk confusing the correct blueprint with less ideal versions

@@norakrohn Thank you so so much for the answers. I'd love to get some direct help, however I am a bit of a unique case, I am not a musician, my "instrument" is a computer mouse and keyboard, so I don't think there is anyone out there who can guide me through this. But your videos are great when I'm able to translate to my situation.

@@windy110 I’ve helped other musicians with typing, so please feel free to contact me through my website if you’d like some assistance! www.norakrohn.com

Hola @agustinurdiciain9215, gracias por tu comentario. Te recomiendo ponerte en contacto con Hugo Bermudez (facebook.com/hugobermudezpiano/). Él trabaja con los mismos principios, los cuales de hecho vienen originalmente del enfoque Taubman para piano. Suerte!

@@norakrohn Muchisimas gracias por la ayuda.

Hi @johnsmithers5044, the Till Approach is a system of string playing (primarily violin, viola, cello, upright bass) that is based on physical logic, as I describe in my videos. The principles of the approach can be used in an injury recovery context, which includes dystonia, and those same principles can be adapted to other instruments. By dismantling the physical and cognitive context that is giving rise to dystonic symptoms (different in each individual case), in my experience the symptoms gradually dissolve. Please watch some of my other videos or contact me if you'd like to know more.

Thanks very much for your comment, although of course I'm so sorry to hear you're dealing with dystonia. I know how exhausting it is. It's interesting that your instincts led you to experimenting with your right arm. In my experience what works best is when we're able to understand the principles behind the healthy movement on the non-affected side and then apply those principles to the left side as a "blueprint" experience. Of course, good guidance helps (and for most people is essential). Wishing you the very best.

Hello Maja, unfortunately I don't know anything about cervical dystonia. You might consider looking at Joaquin Farias's work if you have not already. I'm sorry I can't be more helpful. Best wishes to you.

A través de mi sitio web, www.norakrohn.com!

I'm so sorry to hear that, and I completely understand. Know that recovery is possible with the right tools, and in the meantime the most important thing is to get support from people around you and do everything you can to care for yourself. I am sending you my very best wishes.

Best wishes to you, Edgar!

Gracias por tu comentario, aunque por supuesto lamento que estés lidiando con distonía. Según mi experiencia, el camino más directo y seguro hacia la recuperación es a través del uso de movimientos basados en la lógica física, lo cual muchas veces implica un cambio de abordaje en varios o muchos aspectos. Cuando los movimientos que empleamos obedecen la misma lógica física que usamos en la vida diaria se vuelven más estables y no experimentamos tanto vaivén en el proceso. Te mando mis mejores deseos para tu recuperación.

Yo también la padezco al tocar mi guitarra flamenca, como te recuperaste por favor??

@@manuelgabarri1280 No sé si la pregunta era para mí o para el otro guitarrista, pero igual te respondo. :) A grandes rasgos se trata de reemplazar el abordaje anterior (el que alberga los síntomas distónicos) por uno que respete la lógica física inherente del cuerpo (y por extensión, el cerebro). Voy tratando los temas más comunes en mis videos--y las prácticas que usamos para acceder esa "lógica" en el cuerpo y en el cerebro--pero como cada caso es individual, es difícil entrar en más detalle sin ver lo que pasa en tu situación particular.

@@norakrohn básicamente lo que me pasa es al arpegio mi guitarra el dedo anular esta torpe no logro un movimiento natural y efectivo y el meñique se me tensa

@@manuelgabarri1280 Entiendo, gracias. Creo que lo que hace falta entender es que el síntoma distónico es (según mi experiencia) el mero resultado de un contexto completo que abarca muchos elementos distintos: nos parece algo "sencillo" que de repente no está funcionando, cuando en realidad es solo la punta del iceberg. Vemos que hay algo que no funciona en el dedo sin captar el problema de raíz, que podría ser por ejemplo en la muñeca, la palma, el hombro, o todos a la vez. Por eso es imposible dar consejos individualizados, aun conociendo los síntomas particulares, sin trabajar directamente con el individuo. Espero que tenga sentido...

I'm glad you are starting to see some movement after all of this time! My best advice is that (in my experience) recovery is most successful when it involves examining and changing the motor patterns we are using on the instrument. That means identifying a physically logical way of approaching the playing and then giving the brain and body direct access to a "blueprint" for that movement, often by using the other hand or using an everyday object in place of the instrument and then asking the brain to copy that experience. Best of luck to you!

Hi Alain, thanks for your comment, although of course I’m so sorry to hear about your dystonia. Two people you might contact if you haven’t already are Jan Kagarice and Anna Detari. Both work extensively with MFD in the embouchure. Sending my best wishes.

Not personally, but there are some out there, and some working with us currently! I replied to your email, please let me know if you didn't get it! :)

I'm so sorry to hear about your dystonia. You describe the experience very well--the blueprint we used to rely on ceases to be functional and/or accessible. My recovery came via creating a new blueprint, one that honors the physical logic that enables us to use our bodies quite successfully (often even the affected limb!) in daily life. I wish you the absolute best in your recovery.

Glad you found it helpful! Best wishes!

Thanks so much for your comment, although I'm very sorry to hear about your dystonia! It's a complex condition with many interconnected parts, but I'm glad you are finding ways to help yourself. The information I share in my videos can be applied to guitar playing as well, and our hope is that over time it will be developed to the same level for guitarists by people who deeply understand the nuances of the instrument. In the meantime, I wish you the best.

Sometimes my 3th finger curling under palm with 4th 5th fingers(

@@armanbolshov I'm so sorry to hear about your dystonia. Since you are a pianist I highly recommend you check out the Golandsky Institute (www.golandskyinstitute.org), which is the center for the Taubman Approach to piano (which has helped numerous pianists with dystonia). You will find a list of faculty there, and in particular I can recommend Hugo Bermudez (facebook.com/hugobermudezpiano/): his webpage is in Spanish but he does speak English! Please let me know if I can be of further help.

@@norakrohn Thanks a lot Nora!🙏🏽

I'm so sorry to hear about your dystonia! Please feel free to contact me via my website, www.norakrohn.com, and I'll be happy to connect with you!

Thank you so much! I messaged you there! 🙏🏽

Gracias Silvana! Saludos ☺

Hola! Gracias por tu pregunta! En grandes rasgos, sí, la rotación es una herramienta fundamental del enfoque Till. Es un tema complejo, así que creo que la mejor manera de conversar sobre este tema sería por mail. Si te animás a contactarme a través de mi sitio web (www.norakrohn.com) te respondo con gusto! Saludos 🙂

Thanks a bunch, Eduardo! Best to you :)

Definitely! We've helped a number of guitarists! Wishing you the best.

I've had FD for eight years.. Had Botox Injections, etc I have yet to find anything that actually works...keep hearing about how so many people have been cured or can cure you...but they all seem very dubious....as far as I can make out, there is no known Medical Cure as yet!...Too many Witch Doctors on here. Wish you well and hope one day there a genuine cure.

Hi Norman, from my perspective everything you've said is right on track! I'm thrilled to hear you have seen improvement and hope it gets better and better. Sending you my best wishes for complete recovery.

The short (and unsatisfying!) answer is that, as far as I'm aware, scientists still don't understand what is going on in the brain and/or nervous system that actually causes dystonia. And I should stress that I am NOT a neurologist! However, what's fairly established is that dystonia manifests as involuntary muscular contractions/loss of muscular control that aren't being caused by an identifiable condition (like Parkinson's, for example). In the case of a task-specific dystonia such as Musician's Focal Dystonia, these symptoms generally only appear (or appear most often/most strongly) when the person is performing a certain task. Contributing factors may include unhealthy motor patterns, cognitive tendencies or strategies, psychological traits like anxiety or perfectionism and/or traumatic experiences and how they manifest in the nervous system, possibly genetic factors, and possibly other things scientists haven't even identified yet! The good news is, recovery is possible. Hope that helps, and wishing you the best.

Thanks Nora. About fifteen years ago I developed a snatch in my third finger of my left hand. It came out of nowhere and I’ve never managed to cure it. Bloody frustrating really. I’m wondering if it could be the condition you’re describing. Thanks for the reply.

@@777vim Very frustrating indeed! A neurologist might be able to help with a diagnosis at the very least

Hi there, I'm so sorry to hear you're having symptoms! Have you checked out the Taubman approach to piano? That's the body of information where everything I share originally comes from: www.golandskyinstitute.org/. If you want a recommendation for a teacher you could contact Hugo Bermudez: facebook.com/hugobermudezpiano/