Brother, the opening explanation to frame advantage is so good, ive been all over the place on this theory, but that math explantion simplified sooo good, thank you mate 👊😎💙
As someone who is new to yoshi and still learning, this video is perfect. From my experience with yoshi, he does struggle with poking pressure and I do have to understand the opponents pressure so I can find gaps to break and apply my pressure. I personally think that yoshi is like a seesaw, you should find a balance and apply the right amount of tricks and fundamentals according to your opponent. He doesn’t have the luxury of applying constant safe frames and doesn’t have huge counter hit strings, so he can’t auto pilot and needs to really think about how he is going to approach his opponent. That what makes him so enjoyable to play with cause you can constantly expand your knowledge with him and adapt it to each character. 🔥🔥
Yoshi got so good in T8 that he has the potential to be an S Tier character, but only if your mindgames are off the charts like with eyemusician. He lacks a few key components other S Tier characters have: many moves that have high or even mid evade, many quick moves, being + on block most of the time, good sidesteps (for this he still has his own version of a sidestep so debatable). But he has very good damage, his unblockables to fuel his mindgames, also great combodamage and a giant movelist to confuse his enemies. Other characters like reina can be S Tier without using much of her moveset but can be godlike if you master her. Yoshimitsu on there other side is great but without a good defense and masteful mindgames he will always be worse than the best characters which is a good thing, because I think he is one of the hardest characters to balance.
Unfortunately I do not think Yoshimitsu has many great pressure tools. Great counter tools like poison breathe, flash, stances to throw off unsuspecting opponents but nothing really in Yoshi's tool kit screams he's an enormous threat, especially to players that know the match up at higher play. Yoshi really has to abuse his range and evasion to score wins imho. I love mashers against Yoshi because he just blows them up, but cautious players who take their time and bait Yoshi into doing unsafe stuff is when he falls apart as a character. It would be nice if they gave him just a little more safe pressure tools, or do something to make him more of a threat while not making him overpowered.
The thing with Yoshi is that you're pretty much forced to have offensive issues because you've got some solid defensive tools like spinning evade to get out of 50/50 situations, make whiffs or escape wall pressure, flash if they press something, and med stance canceling. Yoshi would be a total nightmare if he could go full bananas on the offense too. Pressing into Yoshi is tricky since no other character has such overpowered tools unless they have weak offense. If they gave us easy, safe pressure, the whole roster would be toast. Our offense options should always be: if they're right, they kill us, but if they're wrong, we kill them. There's no middle ground.
@@sren9219I would agree if there wasn't Mishima's in the game lol everyone else has pressure. Still learning but having to wait for Reina or drag press 12 buttons then I can't do the same sucks lol
For those who gave valid construstive criticism on the video timeline on 1:50 you are correct, I've made a mistake. For those wondering during the frame data explanation you shouldn't subtract from the frame advantage to your start-up frames that you use against the opponent, I presented that way for clarity, at 2:15 I do state that the moves don't decrease or increase with frames on both ends, it's just my way of simplifying it. However, you can still use the equation against the opponent. As in example. PLAYER: is at +5 when the opp blocks or gets hit. OPPONENT: is -5 during the interaction. when presenting who's faster you should add the -5 or 5f to the opponent x attack (x being whatever attack they'll use) then simply add the frames. Although on your end you shouldn't subtract or add. Just leave the start-up frames like is. So again as an example. PLAYER: uses a 10f move - OPPONENT: uses a 10f (then add the 5f, which in turn means their attack will come out around 15f) Out of the two attacks, the shorter the number; the faster the attacker is (PLAYER 10f > OPPONENT 15f) , in this case, PLAYER is faster with 10f. So you'll end up hitting the OPPONENT before they do. I hope this somewhat helps, so no one feels confused during the beginning portions of the video.
Thank you so much for all your work dude, i'm french and trying to find a good Yoshimitsu's Tuto is very hard, but i find your channel , since this, my life is goooood on Tekken. Thank you for all the effort you put on your videos! ( and sorry for my english ! ;) )
thanks a lot for these videos, much appreciated! i find it often difficult to keep up the pressure on my enemy especially when they are just mashing their fastest attacks after blocking a string of my attacks. Im still playing at low rank and mindgames and strategy isnt a big part in this elo, its hard to condition enemies to certain behaviors when they just know a couple of fast hitting "combostarters" that get me almost every time :8
I'm not all the way through and I do understand enough about frame data to ascertain your point here, but I wanted to point out something that I see other people do that you did as well in this video early on @1:50: Displaying "+8 - 15 = 7" is confusing in a sense because you're using a math equation format and outputting a number that doesn't actually jive with the equation you displayed. I think this sort of stuff adds to the confusion new players have, because "+8" is really just "8" and "8 - 15" is actually "-7". When you put this up next to the opponent's frame data, it's probably another layer of confusion. I am, however, being very peanut gallery with this comment because I honestly don't have a great suggestion for a better way to show it - it's always a bit clunky until you "know" I think. As always, love your videos and how you explain things - just wanted to leave some (hopefully) constructive criticism.
Yes it's better to say "8 frame vs 10 frame" or "16 frame vs 18 frame" but "7 frames vs 18 frames" is wrong because it makes it look like a much slower move would also work for Yoshi. The difference is 2 frames, not 11
I understand that does confuse players with the equation presented with the dramatic increase in the frames or decreasing them. Still, it's the only means I know of simplifying the idea without getting super technical. That's why I've prefaced it at the end of my discussion with, "That doesn't mean that your attacks are faster or slower it's just that you are recovering before your opponent does through said frame advantage"
Hey bro i’m a big fan. I have last played DR5/6 and now 8 feels like a whole new experience. How should i go about learning 150 moves frames on 30 characters most effectively without playing for 5 years? Genuine question since i have played other games competitively and i’m sure that i must learn than in order to climb to a reasonable rank. Edit: I’m Shinryu after like 2 weeks of playing and I struggle with launching people a lot. I feel like DF2 has a really short range and i’m scared to use it.
Certainly, I advise learning the key moves players use on their characters. As an example, Paul's Deathfist is a move Paul players love to throw out as it rewards big dmg, or his Demo Man; his low that connects to 2 follow-ups that are super damaging as well. Recognizing the weakness of those 2 moves can help greatly in that match-up. So you do the same with other characters, figure out the key moves players love throwing out, and then learn how to beat them. Once you've learned them, you've deterred most players from using their strongest tools against you. Basically, pick out 3 to 4 "key" moves from each character and learn the proper means to counter them, by the time you've learned them, you are pretty much set to Ruler Ranks and Mid to High Blue Ranks. For your DF2 dilemma, I'd advise using df2 not as a reactive tool but as a keep-out tool, until you've managed to gauge your opponents or lost the fear of using it. So attempt to bait them to approach you and then use DF2. Also, understand that DF2 for Yoshi is safe on block so you don't have to worry about blocking afterward.
Something feels very off @ 1:50. Maybe it's that you displayed the equation incorrectly. But part of me wonders if it deeper than that. Are you sure that frame advantage and disadvantage applies to both players? What I mean to ask is, I understand that the victim has to add 8 frames to his subsequent 10 frame counter-attack, meaning it will take him 18 frames total to hit you back... but is it also true that the attacker has 8 frames removed from his next attack??? That feels wrong to me because then a subsequent jab from the attacker, which is 10 frames, could be launched in 10-8=2 frames. I'm confident this is wrong, a jab will never output in 2 frames, period. It seems like you are only supposed to add that 8 frames to the time it would take the victim to attack back, and not ALSO subtract 8 frames from the attackers next attack at the same time. If what I'm saying is true then you utterly botched this video horrendously.
The moves that they do still take the same amount of frames to actually attack it's just a way of visualising what frame advantage / disadvantage is, you can see this looking at the frame data bar on the bottom left
@@goolan1255 You ignored my main point and just posted a random fact. My complaint was with poster's math, which appears flawed in the exact way I described, which you didn't address.
@@sillytechnology yeah I see what you mean there. His move isn't going to come out any faster than it was before. No 2 frame jab or 7 frame launcher, so yeah the math or explanation is a bit messed up
You are correct, the reason I've presented it that way was for visual clarity for which frame with the lowest number being the fastest, as with the first demonstration with Standing 1jab on block being +1 and -1 on the opponent's side. By doing the equation it'll show that your attack will come out on top as it's the shortest out of the two at 9f to the opps 11f. Again at 2:13, I've stated that the numbers don't indicate that the move comes out faster, just that the opponent has to recover during those frames while you recovered beforehand. So again it's nothing more than a simple equation that isn't supposed to be taken as literally increasing or decreasing frames but to help understand who'll end up attacking first. I don't think the first few minutes indicate the entire video as a flop by simply demonstrating a bit of frame data as the video isn't entirely about that.
that's not going to exactly work against someone from neutral or up close without some indication the opponent is going to press at the time you'll use Flash. You'll just give your opponent an opening to punish you.
@@Cutthroat__ Has the Yoshi that you've been sparring against used Flash just in NSS or both stances? I would like to see a replay to give some pointers if that'll help against the Yoshi's you've come across 🤔
![Megan Thee Stallion - Neva Play (feat. RM) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TpYTyAaTRts/mqdefault.jpg)
These Yoshi guides are so clutch, just recently got him to the Ruler ranks. Def gotta utilize these tactics to elevate my game.
Same, Good luck on your journey 😇
@@ItsRipto Same to you!
Brother, the opening explanation to frame advantage is so good, ive been all over the place on this theory, but that math explantion simplified sooo good, thank you mate 👊😎💙
As someone who is new to yoshi and still learning, this video is perfect. From my experience with yoshi, he does struggle with poking pressure and I do have to understand the opponents pressure so I can find gaps to break and apply my pressure. I personally think that yoshi is like a seesaw, you should find a balance and apply the right amount of tricks and fundamentals according to your opponent. He doesn’t have the luxury of applying constant safe frames and doesn’t have huge counter hit strings, so he can’t auto pilot and needs to really think about how he is going to approach his opponent. That what makes him so enjoyable to play with cause you can constantly expand your knowledge with him and adapt it to each character. 🔥🔥
Yoshi the best character in Tekken don’t say non to me
I second this
You’re high as f*ck if you think Yoshi is THE BEST character in this game
Guilty 😂@@gojirasaiyan3256
I third this
Yoshi got so good in T8 that he has the potential to be an S Tier character, but only if your mindgames are off the charts like with eyemusician. He lacks a few key components other S Tier characters have: many moves that have high or even mid evade, many quick moves, being + on block most of the time, good sidesteps (for this he still has his own version of a sidestep so debatable). But he has very good damage, his unblockables to fuel his mindgames, also great combodamage and a giant movelist to confuse his enemies. Other characters like reina can be S Tier without using much of her moveset but can be godlike if you master her. Yoshimitsu on there other side is great but without a good defense and masteful mindgames he will always be worse than the best characters which is a good thing, because I think he is one of the hardest characters to balance.
another thing about back ones is that if you make more than one hit (b, 1,1...) you get 4 frame so you can try then a df, 1 to counter them
That first match against King was a rollercoaster lol
Unfortunately I do not think Yoshimitsu has many great pressure tools. Great counter tools like poison breathe, flash, stances to throw off unsuspecting opponents but nothing really in Yoshi's tool kit screams he's an enormous threat, especially to players that know the match up at higher play. Yoshi really has to abuse his range and evasion to score wins imho. I love mashers against Yoshi because he just blows them up, but cautious players who take their time and bait Yoshi into doing unsafe stuff is when he falls apart as a character. It would be nice if they gave him just a little more safe pressure tools, or do something to make him more of a threat while not making him overpowered.
This is a golden comment
The thing with Yoshi is that you're pretty much forced to have offensive issues because you've got some solid defensive tools like spinning evade to get out of 50/50 situations, make whiffs or escape wall pressure, flash if they press something, and med stance canceling. Yoshi would be a total nightmare if he could go full bananas on the offense too. Pressing into Yoshi is tricky since no other character has such overpowered tools unless they have weak offense. If they gave us easy, safe pressure, the whole roster would be toast. Our offense options should always be: if they're right, they kill us, but if they're wrong, we kill them. There's no middle ground.
Literally you can't play aggressive against patience player, it's weird and I have to adapt and catch them guard off
@@sren9219 They gave Drag hatchet kick. Yoshi just didn't get the favored treatment.
@@sren9219I would agree if there wasn't Mishima's in the game lol everyone else has pressure. Still learning but having to wait for Reina or drag press 12 buttons then I can't do the same sucks lol
one thing I noticed is that if you go for a throw and it gets broken, you can flash immediately after to get your turn back
good advice👍🏼 (for those that see this comment, just be sure not to spam it, as they can bait you)
Does it work with sword and no sword?
@@GuerrillaGorilla023 no sword . even if your back is turned
@@jReign007 worked like a charm
For those who gave valid construstive criticism on the video timeline on 1:50 you are correct, I've made a mistake. For those wondering during the frame data explanation you shouldn't subtract from the frame advantage to your start-up frames that you use against the opponent, I presented that way for clarity, at 2:15 I do state that the moves don't decrease or increase with frames on both ends, it's just my way of simplifying it. However, you can still use the equation against the opponent. As in example.
PLAYER: is at +5 when the opp blocks or gets hit.
OPPONENT: is -5 during the interaction.
when presenting who's faster you should add the -5 or 5f to the opponent x attack (x being whatever attack they'll use) then simply add the frames. Although on your end you shouldn't subtract or add. Just leave the start-up frames like is. So again as an example.
PLAYER: uses a 10f move - OPPONENT: uses a 10f (then add the 5f, which in turn means their attack will come out around 15f)
Out of the two attacks, the shorter the number; the faster the attacker is (PLAYER 10f > OPPONENT 15f) , in this case, PLAYER is faster with 10f. So you'll end up hitting the OPPONENT before they do. I hope this somewhat helps, so no one feels confused during the beginning portions of the video.
Thank you so much for all your work dude, i'm french and trying to find a good Yoshimitsu's Tuto is very hard, but i find your channel , since this, my life is goooood on Tekken. Thank you for all the effort you put on your videos! ( and sorry for my english ! ;) )
it's ok it's pretty good😄, I also speak 2 languages so I know how hard it is👍🏼, and glad I can help 😁
In lower levels are your heat engager if you applied enough pressure to the opponent you can use 1+2 grabs or a 1 Grab as they both look similar
Thank you so much. Cant express how much frame data knowledge and mid checking has helped me get up the ranks
thanks a lot for these videos, much appreciated! i find it often difficult to keep up the pressure on my enemy especially when they are just mashing their fastest attacks after blocking a string of my attacks. Im still playing at low rank and mindgames and strategy isnt a big part in this elo, its hard to condition enemies to certain behaviors when they just know a couple of fast hitting "combostarters" that get me almost every time :8
yoshi main here thank you for this guide : )
Thank you for the video, now I’m start my own pressure
I'm not all the way through and I do understand enough about frame data to ascertain your point here, but I wanted to point out something that I see other people do that you did as well in this video early on @1:50:
Displaying "+8 - 15 = 7" is confusing in a sense because you're using a math equation format and outputting a number that doesn't actually jive with the equation you displayed. I think this sort of stuff adds to the confusion new players have, because "+8" is really just "8" and "8 - 15" is actually "-7". When you put this up next to the opponent's frame data, it's probably another layer of confusion.
I am, however, being very peanut gallery with this comment because I honestly don't have a great suggestion for a better way to show it - it's always a bit clunky until you "know" I think. As always, love your videos and how you explain things - just wanted to leave some (hopefully) constructive criticism.
Yes it's better to say "8 frame vs 10 frame" or "16 frame vs 18 frame" but "7 frames vs 18 frames" is wrong because it makes it look like a much slower move would also work for Yoshi. The difference is 2 frames, not 11
I understand that does confuse players with the equation presented with the dramatic increase in the frames or decreasing them. Still, it's the only means I know of simplifying the idea without getting super technical. That's why I've prefaced it at the end of my discussion with, "That doesn't mean that your attacks are faster or slower it's just that you are recovering before your opponent does through said frame advantage"
I didn't realize df3 opens up crouching moves. thanks!
NSS UF 1+3 Is also a pretty fun to use
Jin d2 is launch punishable with wr2,1 on block
2:27 "Quicklyer" 😂
shut up😂
@@delusional-lobo I love it when I accidentally make funny new words. Automagical is my personal favorite. Thanks for the Yoshi knowledge!
24:23 is so perfect
Hey bro i’m a big fan. I have last played DR5/6 and now 8 feels like a whole new experience. How should i go about learning 150 moves frames on 30 characters most effectively without playing for 5 years? Genuine question since i have played other games competitively and i’m sure that i must learn than in order to climb to a reasonable rank.
Edit: I’m Shinryu after like 2 weeks of playing and I struggle with launching people a lot. I feel like DF2 has a really short range and i’m scared to use it.
Certainly, I advise learning the key moves players use on their characters. As an example, Paul's Deathfist is a move Paul players love to throw out as it rewards big dmg, or his Demo Man; his low that connects to 2 follow-ups that are super damaging as well. Recognizing the weakness of those 2 moves can help greatly in that match-up.
So you do the same with other characters, figure out the key moves players love throwing out, and then learn how to beat them. Once you've learned them, you've deterred most players from using their strongest tools against you.
Basically, pick out 3 to 4 "key" moves from each character and learn the proper means to counter them, by the time you've learned them, you are pretty much set to Ruler Ranks and Mid to High Blue Ranks.
For your DF2 dilemma, I'd advise using df2 not as a reactive tool but as a keep-out tool, until you've managed to gauge your opponents or lost the fear of using it. So attempt to bait them to approach you and then use DF2. Also, understand that DF2 for Yoshi is safe on block so you don't have to worry about blocking afterward.
Wow great video
gotta utilise df3 crouch mix up
lol I still got a journey to go ,
My head hurts😭
Something feels very off @ 1:50. Maybe it's that you displayed the equation incorrectly. But part of me wonders if it deeper than that. Are you sure that frame advantage and disadvantage applies to both players? What I mean to ask is, I understand that the victim has to add 8 frames to his subsequent 10 frame counter-attack, meaning it will take him 18 frames total to hit you back... but is it also true that the attacker has 8 frames removed from his next attack??? That feels wrong to me because then a subsequent jab from the attacker, which is 10 frames, could be launched in 10-8=2 frames. I'm confident this is wrong, a jab will never output in 2 frames, period. It seems like you are only supposed to add that 8 frames to the time it would take the victim to attack back, and not ALSO subtract 8 frames from the attackers next attack at the same time. If what I'm saying is true then you utterly botched this video horrendously.
The moves that they do still take the same amount of frames to actually attack it's just a way of visualising what frame advantage / disadvantage is, you can see this looking at the frame data bar on the bottom left
@@goolan1255 You ignored my main point and just posted a random fact. My complaint was with poster's math, which appears flawed in the exact way I described, which you didn't address.
@@sillytechnology yeah I see what you mean there. His move isn't going to come out any faster than it was before. No 2 frame jab or 7 frame launcher, so yeah the math or explanation is a bit messed up
@@sillytechnology my mistake, I think the explanation he gave is a bit wrong
You are correct, the reason I've presented it that way was for visual clarity for which frame with the lowest number being the fastest, as with the first demonstration with Standing 1jab on block being +1 and -1 on the opponent's side. By doing the equation it'll show that your attack will come out on top as it's the shortest out of the two at 9f to the opps 11f. Again at 2:13, I've stated that the numbers don't indicate that the move comes out faster, just that the opponent has to recover during those frames while you recovered beforehand.
So again it's nothing more than a simple equation that isn't supposed to be taken as literally increasing or decreasing frames but to help understand who'll end up attacking first.
I don't think the first few minutes indicate the entire video as a flop by simply demonstrating a bit of frame data as the video isn't entirely about that.
How to pressure with yoshi? Just spam flash
that's not going to exactly work against someone from neutral or up close without some indication the opponent is going to press at the time you'll use Flash. You'll just give your opponent an opening to punish you.
@@delusional-lobo it works against me and im a tgs kaz somehow it still hits me even though im not pressing seems pretty broken imo
@@Cutthroat__ Has the Yoshi that you've been sparring against used Flash just in NSS or both stances? I would like to see a replay to give some pointers if that'll help against the Yoshi's you've come across 🤔
First
Can i add you in steam?
sure, it's exactly as the channels name
@@delusional-lobo thank you Very much