Since this hour by hour analysis is a new format, let us know what you think about it? Is it something you'd like to see more of or is it too in-depth?
When possible, ie. two similarly matched opponents (when considering all the army factors involved) this is a good format, but I doubt it would be useful for most conflicts. The final day of siege of Vienna comes to mind, as it was mostly one sided and therefore would make a rather lackluster video.
I love the hour by hour concept. It makes you imagine if you were one of the officers or just a passerby standing on the hill watching to see how it would play out. Edit: It's exactly what I was hoping the Total War series would move towards - more realistic timing of fights/deaths. Instead of everything being over in 5 minutes.
Have you played Total War: Napoleon? Its battles feel a lot slower than, say, Attila or Warhammer. Just like Breitenfeld, there is usually an initial artillery duel and a lot of maneuvering, and finally a charge when the enemy’s morale is thin.
Everything being over in 5 minutes is really the only thing that works when you’re fighting potentially hundreds of battles over the course of a long campaign. Even with the quicker battle format, only a small percentage of TW players ever finish a campaign. You might argue that only true strategy players would appreciate something like that and therefore should be catered to, but that approach simply doesn’t make CA as much money as their modern approach does.
Have you tried the Darth Mod? Especially the one for Empire has that slow-cooked feel. If you like that, also check out Ultimate General, Gettysburg and Civil War. You get a more ... "elastic" experience rather than a Total War style meatgrinder where the last one to run out of troops wins.
@Niek Vels i think u got a point, but i also think theres a better compromise. Something that addresses army cohesion and engagement timeline more realistically. I think there's been some good attempts, better than CA, and they.dont take an eternity. Also making battles longer Indont think is a bad thing. Total Bore makes you do the same thing over and over
I will endorse the hour-by-hour concept, I feel it is a good way to understand not only what happened, but why it happened. Some channels do this with particularly famous battles (Gettysburg, Waterloo). I would like to see this approach to understanding how battles are fought applied to lesser known battles. Please, continue your work
Isn't this normal for cavalry though? The job of cavalry is to charge/harass and retreat to reform and make space for cavalry units in reserve to do their job. That way they are in constant movement which makes them a harder target and allows them to reload their weapons or in the case of lancers, replace those that were broken.
@@kamilszadkowski8864 I would think partly yes, but also, one would want the charge to be more decisive. As with any combat, they are getting shot at each time, and wearing out. Cavalry are needed for more than just shock, so if you are going to charge, you would want it to be more effective.
@@shorewall Just a question. Did the swedeish cavalry just stand there after the first charge and let Papenheims cuirrassiers harras them for hours or did they perform countercharges?
@@shorewall Direct charges also were done in waves in case the first charge didn't break the enemy. It was expected. In the Battle of Klushino 1610, some Polish Hussar banners were charging over 10 times before enemy infantry (supported by cavalry) finally broke. In the Battle of Kropimozja, Swedish Livafan (Guard Cuirassiers of Gustav Adolf) and Hussars also clashed a couple of times before the Swedes broke.
@@kamilszadkowski8864 ahaha. I referenced a song of Sabaton called "Gott mit uns" which is about the battle of Breitenfeld. Didn't mean to say anything else really. Sorry.
The most striking thing from this video is (in my opinion) is the tactical importance of cavalry. Especially in conducting offensive and delaying actions. Some historians (especially in the older works) of this time period would make you believe that the importance of the cavalry was almost non-existent at the time. Breitenfeld is a great example that in fact, that was not the case. Jeremy Balck in his "European Warfare 1494-1660" points out that this kind of outlook on the PIke&Shot warfare usually came from the tendency of historians to pay most attention to the battles happening early in the conflicts, and not noticing that as wars dragged on the percentage of cavalry in the armies was usually growing in relation to infantry often ending in 50:50 ratio, sometimes even 60:40 for cavalry.
it has been well propagandized (already at the time, keep in mind nobody invited the Swedish), but it was just one of the more brutal sackings at the time. Definitely more extreme than many, but not a unique affair.
It was probably the single worst massacre any city of that size had to face in any inner-european war of the whole millennium. Google any war between any major european powers (maybe even since the very beginning of the medieval ages in the 6th century AD), you won't find anything like this.* Btw who else could have been "it" other than the Germans, the historically worst enemy of the Germans? ;) [Really: Up to their unification in 1871 they always completely lost it when going against each other.] * Apart from whole people/tribes like the Saxons who got recklessly slaughtered empty handed by the HRE Kaiser some centuries before..
This is the best history channel on youtube, and better than anything I've seen on tv. Keep up the citations, you're setting a great standard that I hope other history channels rise to. This type of battlefield-spotlight format is awesome. Thanks for all your hard work.
@@ravenknight4876 If you're implying that there is an abundance of history channels here on RUclips that hold themselves to the same high standards as SandRhoman(specifically with regards to source material), then I would greatly appreciate it if you pointed me in the right direction.
@@nitemaredan that's why I've responded in the first place. This channel right here is actually more on the average side as far as history channels on youtube go. The channels I listed are all run by Historians and/or people with history degrees.
You fail to mention one of the most effective features of the Swedish system; it's cost. Pikemen took long months to train and demanded twice the pay of a an arquebusier, and as fire arms were becoming more and more reliable, the soon cash strapped and desperate armies could better afford to field larger numbers of arquebusier *AND* do so in considerably less time. Also as the war wore on, the peasantry, and the food they grew was becoming harder to get, so in the war's latter stages, armies were more and more composed of smaller regiments of horsemen, the reason being that smaller mounted foraging parties were much more effective than larger ones afoot. Some tactics changed more from the effects of forage and finance that as a result of success of those tactics. A good Thirty Years War commander made the best of what he had and more often than not his chief concern was not victory on the field, but merely keeping army together, and both feeding *AND* paying them enough to prevent a mutiny.
@@DPRK_Best_Korea it’s the ability to form, reform and move cohesively. You also need to get them disciplined enough to withstand combat, skill fencing with the pike matters too.
I have to question where you got that pike men took long training and were not the cheapest troops in the army. All my research has stated that one of the benefits of pikes were they were quick weapons to learn to use needing a few weeks and pikes were paid less than crossbowmen, assault infantry that made up vanguards, the double pay soldiers, which include arquebuses. It also doesnt line up for the pike men who wields a piece of wood capped by steel to be cheaper than a manufactured, in comparison complicated weapon that made up gunpowder weapon that uses ammunition that needs to be manufactured in large quantities of more difficult to obtain resources.
Jesus Christ this was good. You really have nailed the balance on details and narrative. The battle fells a whole lot bigger when you describe individual brigades tactics in such detail. You could have only said the green brigade battled the D brigade for x hours and then won. Instead you go into great detail on the tactical decisions and combined arms usage of the brigades. Witch makes these smaller parts of the army fell like a whole battle in and of itself, and making the whole battle fell gigantic by comparison since it is comprised of dozens of such small battles. Your attention to detail does not fell like it takes away from the story by making it boring and bloated. But rather adds to it by having every detail raise the stakes of the narrative. A perfect blend of history and story where neither is diminished by the other but rather enhanced.
Such battle, many warefare, much interesting, wow!
3 года назад+4
Is interesting this new format of hour by hour in battles, because is much effective at explaining all the tactics and decisions made in battlefield. I really hope to see battles like Nördlingen (1634), Pavia, St. Quentin, Nieuwpoort, etc. =D
Great! We really needed videos explaining in detail how 16th-17th century formations actually work in open battle, because they definitely look more complicated than anything that came before or after. I really didn't know that two of the most important battles in European history (Breitenfeld and Leipzig) had been fought on almost the exact same place (Breitenfeld being roughly the initial position of Blucher's Prussians) A note though: As far as I'm concerned, there was nothing Spanish about this battle other than the use of the Tercio formation by the Imperial side. The use of Spanish Habsburg flags (I think the Austrian Habsburgs didn't use the Cross of Burgundy in their banners), Spanish colors and even the mention of the "Spanish commander" is a bit misleading. Take my ignorant ramblings with pinch of salt though =) Great job as usual!
Great Video! The best way to understand the military and tactics is to explore the battles in history. All the graphics help to understand the real battle than pure words. Hope more videos will be based on detailed battles, it helps a lot to understand 17-century warfare, and what decides a victory and a defeat in a battle.
@@Nieri93 Not one of them against the Spanish, though. The entry of France in the war was far more impactful than those later Swedish victories. The French kept the Spanish so tied down that even 11 years after the Treaty of Westphalia, France and Spain were still fighting each other.
The hour-by-hour system is *very* good in my opinion. In the same way that the Timeghost channel provides a fascinating week-by-week walkthrough of World war 2, this format is not only providing information, it's telling a story and that makes it all the more engaging!
Oh man, such nice detail! Getting this kind of close look really helps you see some of the reasoning that went into tactics and organization. Because you can see how actual situations on the ground play out - you can read between the lines what was important or dangerous or effective. Just the beginning with artillery fire already shows you it decided, somewhat, who would be the attacker. The effects of timing on morale, all kinds of things. GA really found creative ways to give his men the edge in local engagements, like regimental guns for infantry and musketeer support for cavalry.
I've been a fan of Eric Flint's Ring of Fire series for years, and it was always interesting to read this battle from the perspective of the Swedes, but I never really underatood it until I saw this video. Thank you!
Great video for cornerstone battles! Keep both formats they each have their strengths and are very engaging. It does make me wonder. The Swedes fought mostly defensively. The video makes it seem their center was never engaged? Perhaps another good hour by hour would be a battle showing the Swedish system used in offense, and another that shows the combined arms tactics evolution from Gustavus, to the next era/style of fighting (though that could be either format).
First of all, I enjoyed the video and how you presented it - I believe you found the balance between information and visualization. When you mentioned that Tilly could have made a mistake by deploying too few men; didn't Tilly only have the numerical disadvantage up until the point in the battle when the Saxons retreated off the battlefield? After they retreated Tilly must have had the numerical advantage from that point of time in the battle. According to the wiki page, the Swedes deployed 23,000 men, the Saxons deployed about 18,000 and Tilly deployed 35,000.
From this, it seems like a well-fought battle, where men did their best on both sides, the numbers prevailed I think. The imperial army wanted to make a shock attack to make up for their smaller numbers. But when it failed, in attrition battle that ensued they had little chance.
I like this video, but it is mostly what and not covering the how and why, which makes this battle so historically significant. Many details are missing or glossed over,.and the infantry and cavalry battles shown separately, so you can not understand from this video what is going on simultaneously with the right, center, and left. With the Saxons routing after being once charged by cavalry, the Swedes were badly outnumbered and their left flank was open. The Swedish cavalry on their left were barely able to hold off the attacking cavalry with a coutercharge, they would not be able to stop the enemy infantry already on the way. The Swedish Cavalry on their right remained heavily engaged with the Elite Black Riders on that flank and they engaged repeatedly until well after the Infantry was fully engaged and unavailable to support the center or their left flank. At this point it looks like disaster for the Swedes. Most all of their cavalry is tied up with the enemy cavalry and their infantry have their backs to the river, the enemy coming around their left flank and they are badly outnumbered. This is where the value of the Swedish infactry system shows its two major advantages. First they were able to rapidly redeploy their second line to cover their left flank rapidly because the smaller tactical units can march and maneuver much more rapidly than the 1500 man blocks used by the enemy. Second the Swedes smaller units were deployed usually 6-8 men deep, 50/50 pike musket. The enemy were 5 -10 ranks of muskets with 12-15 ranks deep in pikes. This allowed the Swedes to match their infantry line to the enemy even when badly outnumbered. Last the Swedes had much more firepower because they had many small field guns on spread out through their formations, not just heavy guns like the enemy. The Swedes had just in the last decade basically invented these light guns to support the infantry. Basically the Swedish infantry was able to defeat a numerically superior enemy by having a greater weight of fire even having less men for three reasons. More efficient formations, allowing a larger percentage 9f men to be effectively engaged; better firearms, drill and partial cartridges; and additional firepower from small field guns embedded into the infantry formations. Their is debate amoung scholars what was most significant, but I think the significance is the total weight of the total.
For anyone who hasn't read Peter Wilson's Europe's Tragedy yet I will highly recommend. Not just the military actions and statistics for the Thirty Years' War but also the political, economical, religious, and cultural causes and events before and during the war are told.
Nice video as always! A few questions came in mind upon watching this video, however. First question, how exactly were musketeers protected from cavalry charges when a good portion of them were deployed on the flanks of each Swedish brigade? Wouldn't they run into the same problem as the dutch? Second, what were the musketeers, behind the frontmost pikemen, doing in the battle? Were they just reserves, or did they march in front of the front Swedish pikes as the Dutch did in the Julich campaign? I would be extremely grateful for a reply. Thanks for the vid!
Quick answer for the first question: We don't exactly know. It is assumed that the pike block in front of the brigades deterred cavalry from a head on charge. Also the Swedes were quite experienced in deal with cavalry from the polish theater of war! The smaller contingents supposedly helped a lot as well. "Second, what were the musketeers, behind the front most pikemen, doing in the battle?" You're right, they marched forward to shoot, some say that they even stood in front of the pike to begin with. In early-modern sources the Brigade is drawn as we're showing it here in the video but we don't know for sure if they changed it up sometimes. Imagine the Brigades model more as a way of deploying, during combat many smaller parts could change position if need be. But everybody would always know where to go if you had to reform into the original brigade structure.
@SandRhoman History , hey I noticed you don't use any secondary artwork in your videos, I assume it's because of copyright or is it simply because of the fact, you don't have time to ask for permissions or lack of time?
I found this great channel only a few days ago and I really love your work. Please continue with high quality videos like that. A 30 Year War Series would be great, especially on lesser known battles like Lutter, Stadtlohn, Freiburg, or Jankau. Although I really enjoyed this video, I am not sure if it is correct to say that Tilly formed his infantry in Tercios. According to the German historians Junkelmann and Schürger Tilly depolyed his infantry only ten to twelve ranks deep which would not have been a Tercio formation.
Yeah, I read similar views about the Tercio (I think it was in Peter Wilson's, Europe's tragedy). I think it's a weird debate because 10-12 ranks is still double what Gustavus used. Many historians agree that the Tercio got smaller and had less depth from about the 1590s onward. Some argue Tilly made some reforms as well (Guthrie). But what I never really understood is why should we not call that Tercio anymore? I think contemporary spanish / imperial sources still used the term. Another crucial thing, in my opinion, would be how the musketeers were deployed. There seems to have been little change in that. Otherwise it makes no sense that sources from the battle of Lützen 1632 could suddenly report that imperials had changed their system to one more like the Swedish system. That's why we ultimately decided to use the term Tercio anyways :P
Thank you for your interesting answer. The deployment of Tilly's infantry is a very interesting but confusing topic. Some modern works even state that he deployed in 30 ranks. Here is a link to Schürger's excellent work that I mentioned in my first post. theses.gla.ac.uk/6508/ His statements regarding Tilly's deployment are on pages 102 to 106, he calls it "squadron". I think that "Tercio" is usually used for a large and deep formation with a group of musketeers on all four corners, as seen on page 104. However, Tilly's shallow deployment as shown on page 102, figure 16, looks completely different with pikemen in the center and musketeers at the wings. It has much more resemblance to Wallenstein's deployment at Lützen which can also be seen on page 104. Schürger even states that it is wrong to call the traditional formation "Tercio" since this was only an administrative and not a tactical unit. Schürger also argues that there was not such a drastic change before Lützen but rather a continuation of Tilly's reforms by Wallenstein. Of course I have no idea what the truth is and if Schürger is right or wrong. Tilly's more linear deployment can also be seen in Snayer's painting of the battle of Stadtlohn. Marcus Junkelmann (who also wrote a brilliant biography of Gustav Adolf and is certainly a great expert) states in his short biography of Tilly that he deployed in ten to twelve ranks but still calls his formation "Tercio". As I have said, I find this topic extremely confusing. However, from your video I got the impression that you agree with Guthrie that the main reason for the outcome of the battle was not the infantry deployment but the defeat of the Catholic Cavalry. BTW: I have just watched your video of the siege of Vienna. I live in Vienna and 1683 is of course a very important part of our city's history. It was a real pleasure to watch such a well-researched and highly dramatic documentary of this event. It would be great if you could also do a video of the lesser known first siege of 1529.
I love the new format! *___* + I love that other history nerds love it as much as I do :D + there is that incredible documentary about the Battle of Midway in this format by montemayor [sorry, I just had to mention it] :)
Everyone is talking about Gustav II but in 1631, the thirty years war had already lasted for thirteen years. The great commanders of that war were Count Tilly and Marshal Wallenstein. The Swedish king won one battle and the battle of Lützen wasn’t really commanded by him, as he died in the early stage of a stupid charge. A really good book about Wallenstein was written by Helmut Diwald, which was more helpful than that by Golo Mann. Wallenstein was great at logistics and built and rebuilt the Leagues armies on Tilly’s sideline and after the formers death after Breitenfeld. Aside from different tactics, the main difference between Swedes and the majority of the Catholic army was the conscription and steady flow of resources and men to the Swedes. Sweden in 1630 was vast and powerful and the Reich was weakened and disunited, as Emperor Ferdinand II was hated by half of his population. Without the French, modern day Germany could have been Sweden. Skol!
Well, Gustavus is great not only because of winning against superior forces, not only in germany but against poles and russians also, but also because he and Oxenstierna pretty much built the modern swedish state. Sweden wasn't a rich country, mind you, but still this was managed. This differs a lot from the success of the later Prussians, who were massivly rich compared to the swedes.
The night before battle, the Swedes slept in a field. Their dirty uniforms were in contrast to the Saxons who had new uniforms. One Scottish mercenary called the Swedish soldiers: "old experimented blades".
@@stipicaradic yea but i never heard of a unit of cuirassier made up of only Croats,we were something like hussars...for raiding and scouting. I heard a version where our husaars killed him and another that it was some black cuirassier. This is the first time i heard it was a croatian cuirassier. Its rather interesting that they didnt capture him,could of made some serious money on that
@@mihovilraboteg6160 1. The first known cuirassiers were the 100 men recruited in Croatia by Maximilian I in 1484. 2. Gustavus Adolphus was first shot by a "Croat" (L.Cav) which shattered his left arm, but he still wanted to continue. Then his horse was also shot in the neck and he and his retinue got lost in the fog behind the imperial lines. They were spotted by some cuirassiers, who gained on them and cut them down while they were fleeing. He was then shot again and stabbed in the back. Unhorsed, he was asked who he was and after introducing himself he got fragged in the dome piece.
@@stipicaradic How is it possible to know who shot him first in all that mess and confusion? Can you share a vid or wherever you found the information with Maximillian and Croats i would like to know more.
Great work as usual! A question: you speak of the green, blue and white brigade. I have never read of a white brigade, but a yellow one. So, where there four brigades (green, blue, white and yellow) or just three and one is known under different names (yellow/white)? Also: Why are swedish brigades colored like power rangers?
I wish you'd make more videos about mercenary companies. We see mercenary groups like the black army or the Genoese in Constantinople who were loyal and professional no matter the odds. And then you had mercenaries leaving Tilly's army or those who sacked Rome after the French didn't pay their bill. If I'm not mistaken English mercenary companies were a huge part of the 100 years war and the captains of these groups were self made men who came up through the ranks as young man. I'm most curious about the organization. Like a French lance, with 1 knight, 2 light horsemen, 2 infantry and 2 crossbowmen. And were they loyal to the captain or just the money? And how did they see themselves? Did 700 condottiere think themselves a match for 5000 levied infantry? And how were they equiped? And how many became the brigands and outlaws in peace time?
Another major factor: Swedish discipline. To endure a caracole and not return fire, so that they could mass fire against the infantry meant that the Swedish soldiers were very well drilled and courageous professionals. This contrasts with the less disciplined Croats and Imperial cavalry who chased after the Saxons in order to plunder the rear baggage train. Their pursuit of the fleeing Saxons effectively negated much of their hard won advantage in routing the Saxons. A similar thing happened with the Baner's cavalry chasing down Pappenheim's retreating black riders, but by then the battlefield odds had irreversibly turned to Sweden's favor.
What happenede to the Saxon elements that routed earlier? did Gustavus Adolphus still trust them? how did he handle this Saxon's lackluster in this battle?
From what I wread in the history books. The liga army was bigger then the Swedes during the battle. And that's how Johan banner change the outcome. Also that the saxon retried at the first sight of the Spanish. Only to Beer George later receive a massage that the Swedes had won the battle with his farmers
If your a Warhammer fan you've probably just realized there's a very similarly named city like Margderburg in the Empire. I never realized this until just now.
Thank you for the video. I was a little confused at first because my Matthaus Merian copper engravings show the Swedish forces at the bottom of the print. More significant, on my print, it shows the 17,000 Saxons holding 35 cm. and the 23,000 Swedes 51 cm. You show the Saxons as a much smaller representation. The point of the Swedish achievement was the flexibility of the Swedish army to reform to quickly hold off the flanking maneuver of the Imperials after the bulk of the Saxons left the field of honor.
Since this hour by hour analysis is a new format, let us know what you think about it? Is it something you'd like to see more of or is it too in-depth?
i love it
SandRhoman History I like it I think the added depth enhances the video by giving more details.
Great video, however you mispronounced Tilly. The y is silent for some reason and it's pronounced more like "teal".
When possible, ie. two similarly matched opponents (when considering all the army factors involved) this is a good format, but I doubt it would be useful for most conflicts. The final day of siege of Vienna comes to mind, as it was mostly one sided and therefore would make a rather lackluster video.
I can't get enough. :D
Nice!
Indeed
Indeed
I'm surprised you could follow the whole battle considering the NATO JMS being used...
I was just watching your edition of Brietenfield. Coincidence I think not
I love the hour by hour concept. It makes you imagine if you were one of the officers or just a passerby standing on the hill watching to see how it would play out.
Edit: It's exactly what I was hoping the Total War series would move towards - more realistic timing of fights/deaths. Instead of everything being over in 5 minutes.
Have you played Total War: Napoleon? Its battles feel a lot slower than, say, Attila or Warhammer. Just like Breitenfeld, there is usually an initial artillery duel and a lot of maneuvering, and finally a charge when the enemy’s morale is thin.
Everything being over in 5 minutes is really the only thing that works when you’re fighting potentially hundreds of battles over the course of a long campaign. Even with the quicker battle format, only a small percentage of TW players ever finish a campaign. You might argue that only true strategy players would appreciate something like that and therefore should be catered to, but that approach simply doesn’t make CA as much money as their modern approach does.
Have you tried the Darth Mod? Especially the one for Empire has that slow-cooked feel. If you like that, also check out Ultimate General, Gettysburg and Civil War. You get a more ... "elastic" experience rather than a Total War style meatgrinder where the last one to run out of troops wins.
@Niek Vels i think u got a point, but i also think theres a better compromise. Something that addresses army cohesion and engagement timeline more realistically. I think there's been some good attempts, better than CA, and they.dont take an eternity. Also making battles longer Indont think is a bad thing. Total Bore makes you do the same thing over and over
Total War has done a complete change on what many early users thought it would become.
I will endorse the hour-by-hour concept, I feel it is a good way to understand not only what happened, but why it happened. Some channels do this with particularly famous battles (Gettysburg, Waterloo). I would like to see this approach to understanding how battles are fought applied to lesser known battles. Please, continue your work
i wish the next total war would be in this time period.
Mount & Blade With Fire and Sword covers this era. Mount & Blade is basically like playing Total War in first person.
I think it would be hard to replicate the tactics
Empire 2
There's a few mods for medieval 2 and tbh that's probably the best one can hope for
Amen
Seven times they attacked on that day
Seven times they retreated.
Isn't this normal for cavalry though? The job of cavalry is to charge/harass and retreat to reform and make space for cavalry units in reserve to do their job. That way they are in constant movement which makes them a harder target and allows them to reload their weapons or in the case of lancers, replace those that were broken.
@@kamilszadkowski8864 I would think partly yes, but also, one would want the charge to be more decisive. As with any combat, they are getting shot at each time, and wearing out. Cavalry are needed for more than just shock, so if you are going to charge, you would want it to be more effective.
@@shorewall Just a question. Did the swedeish cavalry just stand there after the first charge and let Papenheims cuirrassiers harras them for hours or did they perform countercharges?
@@shorewall Direct charges also were done in waves in case the first charge didn't break the enemy. It was expected.
In the Battle of Klushino 1610, some Polish Hussar banners were charging over 10 times before enemy infantry (supported by cavalry) finally broke.
In the Battle of Kropimozja, Swedish Livafan (Guard Cuirassiers of Gustav Adolf) and Hussars also clashed a couple of times before the Swedes broke.
@@kamilszadkowski8864 ahaha. I referenced a song of Sabaton called "Gott mit uns" which is about the battle of Breitenfeld. Didn't mean to say anything else really. Sorry.
The most striking thing from this video is (in my opinion) is the tactical importance of cavalry. Especially in conducting offensive and delaying actions.
Some historians (especially in the older works) of this time period would make you believe that the importance of the cavalry was almost non-existent at the time. Breitenfeld is a great example that in fact, that was not the case.
Jeremy Balck in his "European Warfare 1494-1660" points out that this kind of outlook on the PIke&Shot warfare usually came from the tendency of historians to pay most attention to the battles happening early in the conflicts, and not noticing that as wars dragged on the percentage of cavalry in the armies was usually growing in relation to infantry often ending in 50:50 ratio, sometimes even 60:40 for cavalry.
Yeah, mobility alone is such a handy feature.
haha I think you mean 60:40 ratio at the end there :P
@@protoketer4554 Ah, shit. yes, of course, I meant 60:40 ratio. Thanks!
@@kamilszadkowski8864 np :)
Well, there is a sort of narrative that cavalry was useless after 13th century, but it seems more and more that's far from truth.
The Sack Magdeburg was one of the most cruel acts in a war in my opinion...
You know something is bad when an adverb of it "Magdeburgisieren" exists in the dictionary and people still know what it means centuries later.
I could name countless acts of barbarity worse than the Magdeburg Massacre.
Lanzkenekt sack of Rome
it has been well propagandized (already at the time, keep in mind nobody invited the Swedish), but it was just one of the more brutal sackings at the time. Definitely more extreme than many, but not a unique affair.
It was probably the single worst massacre any city of that size had to face in any inner-european war of the whole millennium.
Google any war between any major european powers (maybe even since the very beginning of the medieval ages in the 6th century AD), you won't find anything like this.*
Btw who else could have been "it" other than the Germans, the historically worst enemy of the Germans? ;) [Really: Up to their unification in 1871 they always completely lost it when going against each other.]
* Apart from whole people/tribes like the Saxons who got recklessly slaughtered empty handed by the HRE Kaiser some centuries before..
This is the best history channel on youtube, and better than anything I've seen on tv. Keep up the citations, you're setting a great standard that I hope other history channels rise to. This type of battlefield-spotlight format is awesome. Thanks for all your hard work.
You must be pretty new to youtube.
@@ravenknight4876 If you're implying that there is an abundance of history channels here on RUclips that hold themselves to the same high standards as SandRhoman(specifically with regards to source material), then I would greatly appreciate it if you pointed me in the right direction.
@@nitemaredan TIK, Mark Felton, MIlitary history Visualized, Drachinifel and Historia Civilis. Go from there.
@@ravenknight4876 Wow, thanks a lot. At a glance they look like more of exactly what I like, and can help me compile a list of sources.
@@nitemaredan that's why I've responded in the first place. This channel right here is actually more on the average side as far as history channels on youtube go. The channels I listed are all run by Historians and/or people with history degrees.
Love this type of battle breakdown. It's factually rich, but never gets boring because it still focuses on telling a compelling story
The best RUclips channel for the early modern period PERIOD
It would've been good to have a scale on meters, that what were the distances to understand how close they fired their guns from.
He said the swedes started firing at 600 meters i think
@@mihovilraboteg6160 aah thanks
@@heh9392 no problem
mannnnnnnnnnnn i was waiting for soooo long for you to start the Thirty Years War series! Well done !!!
Yes the notifications WORKED Now it’s REAL SWEDISH HOURS
Nothing better than sunday morning SandRhoman!
Miguel Celano indeed
Koifish momento
Loving this new style of video. I'd like to see more hour by hour videos in the future.
You fail to mention one of the most effective features of the Swedish system; it's cost. Pikemen took long months to train and demanded twice the pay of a an arquebusier, and as fire arms were becoming more and more reliable, the soon cash strapped and desperate armies could better afford to field larger numbers of arquebusier *AND* do so in considerably less time.
Also as the war wore on, the peasantry, and the food they grew was becoming harder to get, so in the war's latter stages, armies were more and more composed of smaller regiments of horsemen, the reason being that smaller mounted foraging parties were much more effective than larger ones afoot.
Some tactics changed more from the effects of forage and finance that as a result of success of those tactics. A good Thirty Years War commander made the best of what he had and more often than not his chief concern was not victory on the field, but merely keeping army together, and both feeding *AND* paying them enough to prevent a mutiny.
Interesting point about the importance of logistics in this crazy war
I was under the impression that pikemen were very easy to train. The fundamentals are simply point the pike at the enemy, and stand your ground.
@@DPRK_Best_Korea it’s the ability to form, reform and move cohesively. You also need to get them disciplined enough to withstand combat, skill fencing with the pike matters too.
I have to question where you got that pike men took long training and were not the cheapest troops in the army.
All my research has stated that one of the benefits of pikes were they were quick weapons to learn to use needing a few weeks and pikes were paid less than crossbowmen, assault infantry that made up vanguards, the double pay soldiers, which include arquebuses.
It also doesnt line up for the pike men who wields a piece of wood capped by steel to be cheaper than a manufactured, in comparison complicated weapon that made up gunpowder weapon that uses ammunition that needs to be manufactured in large quantities of more difficult to obtain resources.
Literally my favorite history channel on RUclips
Amazing by far the most detailed analysis on RUclips.
This episode is a great example of why I love this channel. Great work.
I know. More and more of it. It's like a heckuva drug...
history will always be there for you
Writing a university essay on the thirty years war today and you happen to release this! What luck haha
What are you studying? Molecular biology or quantum chemistry?
Jesus Christ this was good. You really have nailed the balance on details and narrative. The battle fells a whole lot bigger when you describe individual brigades tactics in such detail. You could have only said the green brigade battled the D brigade for x hours and then won. Instead you go into great detail on the tactical decisions and combined arms usage of the brigades. Witch makes these smaller parts of the army fell like a whole battle in and of itself, and making the whole battle fell gigantic by comparison since it is comprised of dozens of such small battles. Your attention to detail does not fell like it takes away from the story by making it boring and bloated. But rather adds to it by having every detail raise the stakes of the narrative.
A perfect blend of history and story where neither is diminished by the other but rather enhanced.
Such battle, many warefare, much interesting, wow!
Is interesting this new format of hour by hour in battles, because is much effective at explaining all the tactics and decisions made in battlefield. I really hope to see battles like Nördlingen (1634), Pavia, St. Quentin, Nieuwpoort, etc. =D
Great to see you guys back for another year despite everything. :)
Also known as Gustavus Adolphus the great, his tactics was a great inspiration for Napoleon and many more
This format is fantastic. As is pretty much everything on this channel.
Finally, another SandRhoman Video is out! Thank you
Great! We really needed videos explaining in detail how 16th-17th century formations actually work in open battle, because they definitely look more complicated than anything that came before or after.
I really didn't know that two of the most important battles in European history (Breitenfeld and Leipzig) had been fought on almost the exact same place (Breitenfeld being roughly the initial position of Blucher's Prussians)
A note though: As far as I'm concerned, there was nothing Spanish about this battle other than the use of the Tercio formation by the Imperial side. The use of Spanish Habsburg flags (I think the Austrian Habsburgs didn't use the Cross of Burgundy in their banners), Spanish colors and even the mention of the "Spanish commander" is a bit misleading. Take my ignorant ramblings with pinch of salt though =)
Great job as usual!
Great Video! The best way to understand the military and tactics is to explore the battles in history. All the graphics help to understand the real battle than pure words. Hope more videos will be based on detailed battles, it helps a lot to understand 17-century warfare, and what decides a victory and a defeat in a battle.
Wait until Spanish beat Swedes at Nordligen with the power of ducking!
Most underrated military development up to the 20th century xD
"British officers don't duck. They geese"
Dunno, Lindybeige i think
And after Nordligen, the swedes won 4 major battles in a row. Ending the war in a protestant victory.
@@Nieri93 Not one of them against the Spanish, though.
The entry of France in the war was far more impactful than those later Swedish victories. The French kept the Spanish so tied down that even 11 years after the Treaty of Westphalia, France and Spain were still fighting each other.
@@higochumbo8932 It was basically a clean version of World War 1.
This is the greatest channel! Love this format. All I can say is MORE!!! BRAVO.
The hour-by-hour system is *very* good in my opinion. In the same way that the Timeghost channel provides a fascinating week-by-week walkthrough of World war 2, this format is not only providing information, it's telling a story and that makes it all the more engaging!
17:36 what's the name of the song playing in the background? Thanks in advance
Oh man, such nice detail! Getting this kind of close look really helps you see some of the reasoning that went into tactics and organization. Because you can see how actual situations on the ground play out - you can read between the lines what was important or dangerous or effective. Just the beginning with artillery fire already shows you it decided, somewhat, who would be the attacker. The effects of timing on morale, all kinds of things. GA really found creative ways to give his men the edge in local engagements, like regimental guns for infantry and musketeer support for cavalry.
I've been a fan of Eric Flint's Ring of Fire series for years, and it was always interesting to read this battle from the perspective of the Swedes, but I never really underatood it until I saw this video. Thank you!
1632
Pretty decent book
You channels quality is most excellent.
I really like the hour by hour format. I would prefer it for all battles -- if the sources are detailed enough to support it.
This video is amazing. I love these battle reports that go over everything hourly.
Have looking for years for stuff of this period, i am loving it.
Always happy when a new video from this channel arrives, keep up the great work
Excellent video SandRhoman, your hour by hour is full of details and extremely well detailed.
One of The Best Channels!!
Great video for cornerstone battles! Keep both formats they each have their strengths and are very engaging.
It does make me wonder. The Swedes fought mostly defensively. The video makes it seem their center was never engaged? Perhaps another good hour by hour would be a battle showing the Swedish system used in offense, and another that shows the combined arms tactics evolution from Gustavus, to the next era/style of fighting (though that could be either format).
Just want to thank you for the amazing work you do
“Fire at will
Aim for their Canons
Counterattack
Thunder of guns.”
Let’s see how accurate the song is..,
Gott mint uns!
As we all stand united, all together
Gott mint uns!
@@rishidipmondal9077it’s “gott mit uns” not “gott mint uns” (sorry for being a grammar shark)
This channel gets more and more amazing. Great job, and please keep the videos coming!
only had way through but bro i gotta say your videos just keep getting better
Sabaton fans:
-GOTT MIT UNS
seven times they attacked on that day,SEVEN TIMES THEY RETREATED
@@eretna2480 Buttsus Quissus Nonnus
@@eretna2480 CAVALRY CHARGE
@@rivepest6158 AS WE ALL STAND UNITED!
@@KiljiArslan ALL TOGETHER:
I 've never seen a video like this with this great quality. this video is really awesome!!
17:40 Seven times they attacked on that day, seven times they retreated!
GOTT MIT UNS! AS WE ALL STAND UNITED!
BREAKING THEIR LINES, THOUSANDS OF SOLDIERS,
RUN FOR THEIR LIVES!
ALL TOGETHER GOTTT MIT UNS
@@richardmoore5347 legend arise
One guy made a thumbs down on this video - why?
Great video! I'm looking forward to your videos on Lützen and Nördlingen.
Probably a newly recruited Saxon. ;)
@@Ackalan 😁
Awesome! Hour by hour or act by act works very well to give both insight and make it interesting.
Keep it up!
First of all, I enjoyed the video and how you presented it - I believe you found the balance between information and visualization. When you mentioned that Tilly could have made a mistake by deploying too few men; didn't Tilly only have the numerical disadvantage up until the point in the battle when the Saxons retreated off the battlefield? After they retreated Tilly must have had the numerical advantage from that point of time in the battle. According to the wiki page, the Swedes deployed 23,000 men, the Saxons deployed about 18,000 and Tilly deployed 35,000.
From this, it seems like a well-fought battle, where men did their best on both sides, the numbers prevailed I think. The imperial army wanted to make a shock attack to make up for their smaller numbers. But when it failed, in attrition battle that ensued they had little chance.
I like this video, but it is mostly what and not covering the how and why, which makes this battle so historically significant.
Many details are missing or glossed over,.and the infantry and cavalry battles shown separately, so you can not understand from this video what is going on simultaneously with the right, center, and left.
With the Saxons routing after being once charged by cavalry, the Swedes were badly outnumbered and their left flank was open. The Swedish cavalry on their left were barely able to hold off the attacking cavalry with a coutercharge, they would not be able to stop the enemy infantry already on the way. The Swedish Cavalry on their right remained heavily engaged with the Elite Black Riders on that flank and they engaged repeatedly until well after the Infantry was fully engaged and unavailable to support the center or their left flank.
At this point it looks like disaster for the Swedes. Most all of their cavalry is tied up with the enemy cavalry and their infantry have their backs to the river, the enemy coming around their left flank and they are badly outnumbered.
This is where the value of the Swedish infactry system shows its two major advantages. First they were able to rapidly redeploy their second line to cover their left flank rapidly because the smaller tactical units can march and maneuver much more rapidly than the 1500 man blocks used by the enemy. Second the Swedes smaller units were deployed usually 6-8 men deep, 50/50 pike musket. The enemy were 5 -10 ranks of muskets with 12-15 ranks deep in pikes. This allowed the Swedes to match their infantry line to the enemy even when badly outnumbered.
Last the Swedes had much more firepower because they had many small field guns on spread out through their formations, not just heavy guns like the enemy. The Swedes had just in the last decade basically invented these light guns to support the infantry. Basically the Swedish infantry was able to defeat a numerically superior enemy by having a greater weight of fire even having less men for three reasons. More efficient formations, allowing a larger percentage 9f men to be effectively engaged; better firearms, drill and partial cartridges; and additional firepower from small field guns embedded into the infantry formations. Their is debate amoung scholars what was most significant, but I think the significance is the total weight of the total.
Excellent video! Thank you for sharing!
Just found this channel. Love it and subbed!
Gott Mit Uns!!!
For anyone who hasn't read Peter Wilson's Europe's Tragedy yet I will highly recommend. Not just the military actions and statistics for the Thirty Years' War but also the political, economical, religious, and cultural causes and events before and during the war are told.
Love it! Awesome representation of an interesting and pivotal battle! thanks a lot for this quality content.
Nice video as always! A few questions came in mind upon watching this video, however. First question, how exactly were musketeers protected from cavalry charges when a good portion of them were deployed on the flanks of each Swedish brigade? Wouldn't they run into the same problem as the dutch? Second, what were the musketeers, behind the frontmost pikemen, doing in the battle? Were they just reserves, or did they march in front of the front Swedish pikes as the Dutch did in the Julich campaign? I would be extremely grateful for a reply. Thanks for the vid!
Quick answer for the first question: We don't exactly know. It is assumed that the pike block in front of the brigades deterred cavalry from a head on charge. Also the Swedes were quite experienced in deal with cavalry from the polish theater of war! The smaller contingents supposedly helped a lot as well.
"Second, what were the musketeers, behind the front most pikemen, doing in the battle?" You're right, they marched forward to shoot, some say that they even stood in front of the pike to begin with. In early-modern sources the Brigade is drawn as we're showing it here in the video but we don't know for sure if they changed it up sometimes.
Imagine the Brigades model more as a way of deploying, during combat many smaller parts could change position if need be. But everybody would always know where to go if you had to reform into the original brigade structure.
@@SandRhomanHistory HOLY SMOKES! THANK YOU FOR THE REPLY!
@SandRhoman History , hey I noticed you don't use any secondary artwork in your videos, I assume it's because of copyright or is it simply because of the fact, you don't have time to ask for permissions or lack of time?
Great a analysis and the right level f detail. Excellent work. Thanks for your great work.
I found this great channel only a few days ago and I really love your work. Please continue with high quality videos like that. A 30 Year War Series would be great, especially on lesser known battles like Lutter, Stadtlohn, Freiburg, or Jankau.
Although I really enjoyed this video, I am not sure if it is correct to say that Tilly formed his infantry in Tercios. According to the German historians Junkelmann and Schürger Tilly depolyed his infantry only ten to twelve ranks deep which would not have been a Tercio formation.
Yeah, I read similar views about the Tercio (I think it was in Peter Wilson's, Europe's tragedy). I think it's a weird debate because 10-12 ranks is still double what Gustavus used. Many historians agree that the Tercio got smaller and had less depth from about the 1590s onward. Some argue Tilly made some reforms as well (Guthrie). But what I never really understood is why should we not call that Tercio anymore? I think contemporary spanish / imperial sources still used the term. Another crucial thing, in my opinion, would be how the musketeers were deployed. There seems to have been little change in that. Otherwise it makes no sense that sources from the battle of Lützen 1632 could suddenly report that imperials had changed their system to one more like the Swedish system. That's why we ultimately decided to use the term Tercio anyways :P
Thank you for your interesting answer. The deployment of Tilly's infantry is a very interesting but confusing topic. Some modern works even state that he deployed in 30 ranks.
Here is a link to Schürger's excellent work that I mentioned in my first post.
theses.gla.ac.uk/6508/
His statements regarding Tilly's deployment are on pages 102 to 106, he calls it "squadron". I think that "Tercio" is usually used for a large and deep formation with a group of musketeers on all four corners, as seen on page 104. However, Tilly's shallow deployment as shown on page 102, figure 16, looks completely different with pikemen in the center and musketeers at the wings. It has much more resemblance to Wallenstein's deployment at Lützen which can also be seen on page 104. Schürger even states that it is wrong to call the traditional formation "Tercio" since this was only an administrative and not a tactical unit. Schürger also argues that there was not such a drastic change before Lützen but rather a continuation of Tilly's reforms by Wallenstein.
Of course I have no idea what the truth is and if Schürger is right or wrong.
Tilly's more linear deployment can also be seen in Snayer's painting of the battle of Stadtlohn.
Marcus Junkelmann (who also wrote a brilliant biography of Gustav Adolf and is certainly a great expert) states in his short biography of Tilly that he deployed in ten to twelve ranks but still calls his formation "Tercio". As I have said, I find this topic extremely confusing.
However, from your video I got the impression that you agree with Guthrie that the main reason for the outcome of the battle was not the infantry deployment but the defeat of the Catholic Cavalry.
BTW: I have just watched your video of the siege of Vienna. I live in Vienna and 1683 is of course a very important part of our city's history. It was a real pleasure to watch such a well-researched and highly dramatic documentary of this event. It would be great if you could also do a video of the lesser known first siege of 1529.
Yes, additionally, at the beginning you were referencing the Spanish Tercios, which I do not believe were present at this battle.
Great concept. More and more and more.....we need more....
Wow! That was so good. Keep em coming!
Perfect stack wipe. +15 warscore. +5 army tradition. +5 prestige.
Currently I am writing my bachelors thesis about the effect and usage of artillery during the 30 years war. This battle is one of my primary sources.
I love the new format! *___*
+ I love that other history nerds love it as much as I do :D
+ there is that incredible documentary about the Battle of Midway in this format by montemayor [sorry, I just had to mention it] :)
you are by far the best channel of this kind!!\
Would love to see you guys do a video on Karl XI 's military reforms, in my opinion they where far more significant than those of Gustav II Adolf
Everyone is talking about Gustav II but in 1631, the thirty years war had already lasted for thirteen years. The great commanders of that war were Count Tilly and Marshal Wallenstein. The Swedish king won one battle and the battle of Lützen wasn’t really commanded by him, as he died in the early stage of a stupid charge. A really good book about Wallenstein was written by Helmut Diwald, which was more helpful than that by Golo Mann. Wallenstein was great at logistics and built and rebuilt the Leagues armies on Tilly’s sideline and after the formers death after Breitenfeld. Aside from different tactics, the main difference between Swedes and the majority of the Catholic army was the conscription and steady flow of resources and men to the Swedes. Sweden in 1630 was vast and powerful and the Reich was weakened and disunited, as Emperor Ferdinand II was hated by half of his population. Without the French, modern day Germany could have been Sweden. Skol!
Well, Gustavus is great not only because of winning against superior forces, not only in germany but against poles and russians also, but also because he and Oxenstierna pretty much built the modern swedish state. Sweden wasn't a rich country, mind you, but still this was managed. This differs a lot from the success of the later Prussians, who were massivly rich compared to the swedes.
I love this channel
The night before battle, the Swedes slept in a field. Their dirty uniforms were in contrast to the Saxons who had new uniforms. One Scottish mercenary called the Swedish soldiers: "old experimented blades".
Damn i would of watched this even if it was literally hour by hour, grettings from the imperial right wing(Croatia).
There were also Croatian kyrissers btw.
At the battle of Lutzen they executed Gustavus Adolphus after cutting down his bodyguards.
@@stipicaradic yea but i never heard of a unit of cuirassier made up of only Croats,we were something like hussars...for raiding and scouting. I heard a version where our husaars killed him and another that it was some black cuirassier. This is the first time i heard it was a croatian cuirassier. Its rather interesting that they didnt capture him,could of made some serious money on that
@@mihovilraboteg6160 1. The first known cuirassiers were the 100 men recruited in Croatia by Maximilian I in 1484.
2. Gustavus Adolphus was first shot by a "Croat" (L.Cav) which shattered his left arm, but he still wanted to continue. Then his horse was also shot in the neck and he and his retinue got lost in the fog behind the imperial lines. They were spotted by some cuirassiers, who gained on them and cut them down while they were fleeing. He was then shot again and stabbed in the back. Unhorsed, he was asked who he was and after introducing himself he got fragged in the dome piece.
@@stipicaradic How is it possible to know who shot him first in all that mess and confusion? Can you share a vid or wherever you found the information with Maximillian and Croats i would like to know more.
@@stipicaradic woah
I literally had to pause while making food to make sure I could watch every second of this video
Amazing Video
Can’t wait to see the Battle of Nördlingen
Great work as usual! A question: you speak of the green, blue and white brigade. I have never read of a white brigade, but a yellow one. So, where there four brigades (green, blue, white and yellow) or just three and one is known under different names (yellow/white)?
Also: Why are swedish brigades colored like power rangers?
Great battle . Great stand and great tactics from the Swedes . Reminded me a bit of the Iron Duke . Great to see the Day Goes take a drubbing .
Awesome as always
I wish you'd make more videos about mercenary companies. We see mercenary groups like the black army or the Genoese in Constantinople who were loyal and professional no matter the odds. And then you had mercenaries leaving Tilly's army or those who sacked Rome after the French didn't pay their bill. If I'm not mistaken English mercenary companies were a huge part of the 100 years war and the captains of these groups were self made men who came up through the ranks as young man. I'm most curious about the organization. Like a French lance, with 1 knight, 2 light horsemen, 2 infantry and 2 crossbowmen. And were they loyal to the captain or just the money? And how did they see themselves? Did 700 condottiere think themselves a match for 5000 levied infantry? And how were they equiped? And how many became the brigands and outlaws in peace time?
YES, NEW VIDEO!
you are a legend.
As soon as Tily had captured the Saxon artillery he should have used it to bombard the Swedish left flank. Before engaging then.
Fog of war probably, was a massive battle after all
Great video, really enjoyed!
Damn! Your Videos are always so good!
How do you animate your videos?
Now that the notification works I need to know how to set a alarm for it with Sabatons songs for this swedish input.
Another major factor: Swedish discipline. To endure a caracole and not return fire, so that they could mass fire against the infantry meant that the Swedish soldiers were very well drilled and courageous professionals. This contrasts with the less disciplined Croats and Imperial cavalry who chased after the Saxons in order to plunder the rear baggage train. Their pursuit of the fleeing Saxons effectively negated much of their hard won advantage in routing the Saxons. A similar thing happened with the Baner's cavalry chasing down Pappenheim's retreating black riders, but by then the battlefield odds had irreversibly turned to Sweden's favor.
What happenede to the Saxon elements that routed earlier? did Gustavus Adolphus still trust them? how did he handle this Saxon's lackluster in this battle?
Amazing work!
In my opinion, this battle isn't the Swedish system vs the Spanish system, it was the Swedish system vs a copy of the Spanish system
From what I wread in the history books. The liga army was bigger then the Swedes during the battle. And that's how Johan banner change the outcome. Also that the saxon retried at the first sight of the Spanish. Only to Beer George later receive a massage that the Swedes had won the battle with his farmers
Very interesting. Didn't know the battle, only the SABATON song about it...
what happened to the Croats? did they get away with the plunder?
As their countryman i hope they did.
If your a Warhammer fan you've probably just realized there's a very similarly named city like Margderburg in the Empire. I never realized this until just now.
Great video! Regards from Chile
Well made video mate.
Thank you for the video.
I was a little confused at first because my Matthaus Merian copper engravings show the Swedish forces at the bottom of the print.
More significant, on my print, it shows the 17,000 Saxons holding 35 cm. and the 23,000 Swedes 51 cm.
You show the Saxons as a much smaller representation.
The point of the Swedish achievement was the flexibility of the Swedish army to reform to quickly hold off the flanking maneuver of the Imperials after the bulk of the Saxons left the field of honor.