5e has such a walled garden effect on the ttrpg community. What the world really needs are more short cohesive "hook" videos and blog posts that get people interested in more than D&D. Blades in The Dark and Lancer are two exceptional tabletops for this in my opinion. Mechanically low to the ground, but unique! They're not run like D&D at all, but they're simple enough that they're not too scary to learn
It's the Kool-Aid effect, a brand so dominant that it supplants the hobby as a whole, and due to being so dominant, it chokes out nearly every other option purely through availability. It's a crapshoot finding a specific title at a physical store or a more local/regional online stockist, but you KNOW D&D is available there. If you buy the products outside of D&D, you can read to your hearts content, but the chances of finding a table running it is damn near impossible. If you want to play it, you're almost certainly going to be the game-master, and we all know the disparity in numbers between players willing to GM and those that aren't. And if you *are* content to run the system you want to play, you're gonna have to actively convince people to try it, and half the people at the table are still likely to be sitting there and ending each session with "so when are we getting back to D&D?" There's a lot of quirks with D&D that I dislike, but I generally enjoy my time playing it. The one thing I actively hate about D&D is it only really does D&D well, and chokes the diversity out of the hobby. Familiarity breeds contempt.
That's the thing!! There aren't enough small, short, easy, "explain like I'm 5" type videos on other games!! Other games don't have enough community to make them easier to learn and easier to hook in people. It's sad. I want to play Ironclaw but I just don't understand the magic in it and I wish there were better videos explaining it, cuz it just doesn't make sense when I look through the book cuz there isn't a single section explaining it and I feel like I'm missing the paragraph that explains it every time, but I think legit there isn't one.
Lancer's battle system is one of the more complex ones, on par or exceeding D&D5E. The roleplay (non-Mech parts) have very simple mechanics so you get back to the crunchy parts faster
When I stopped playing 5e and started running alternate systems, I realised I have some really large gaps in my DMing skills. Mainly making special fights without resorting to homebrewing the entire system, or using puzzles with the player's abilities. In 5e, I had to homebrew everything anyway, so it made making special fights easier and I could use the homebrew as material for my puzzles. I've been learning how to make things engaging without needing to homebrew stuff, and to make more interesting puzzles. It's going well so far, and hopefully it just keeps getting better.
I learned to describe attacks which is good idea in every system. Because system I'm running is very simple and magic is scare. Players roll to attack and players roll to defend, 90% of combat is 2 groups trying to stab each other so instead just telling players to roll I additionally narrate
Oh god thank you for actually stating that truly "learning" DnD 5e is an effort that takes months. So many times I hear "Just start with DnD, its the simplest one"
5e is painfully simple compared to its' previous iterations. It should not take you months to learn a system that is 90% "Lol I dunno, you paid us 60 bucks for a bunch of paper that boils down to 'Let the DM figure it out!' Any time it gets even a little complicated because we're afraid of number crunch suddenly now."
I mean, Most people only do sessions once a week. Its very common to see DMs still trying to juggle and having to look up rules that are very much there after that amount of time. Even the starter set is just woefully inadequate by todays 5e standard. Its roughly the same number of pages for rules as pathfinder 2e, Split into multiple books and without a standard format. Its painfully simple compared to 3.5 but is still magnitudes more complex than any of the truly rules light systems out there.
This video is so encouraging. My friends and I were a bunch of forever DMs that were constantly running D&D from 3.5 to 5e, and we all had piles of other games we wanted to try, so we started our streaming group DMs After Dark to highlight and boost actual play examples of lesser known games. I hope more people realize that, like you said, not every game requires you to learn so much like 5e, and there are games that are better for the stories they want to tell. Honestly, some of my favorites are games you're *supposed* to kind of wing in a one-shot format. Keep exploring the scene, hope you find more you love!
0:30 Lmao you have no idea how often I've felt like the person behind that door. Love this video. There's a frustrating back & forth with conversations that can run tensions weirdly high. Thanks for being the chill mediator.
I'm glad you've been enjoying new games and telling new stories! You've brought a number of really interesting games to my attention, and I look forward to learning about more!
I stumbled across this and I love it. I stopped running D&D a long time ago, for a variety of reasons, but it was at a time when it was *normal* for gamers to have several systems they could break out at any time. Which is how I learned that I prefered Point Build over Class/Level, and if I wasn't using a generic system (and despite all efforts and claims to the contrary, D&D based D20 is not a generic system) I liked the system to support the genre rules and conventions that went with the setting. That's why I love the original Legend of the Five Rings and 7th Sea - though I like 2nd ed 7th Sea too, but it is a different game. I also really like most of the White Wolf/Onyx Path catalog of games (World of Darkness, Chronicle of Darkness, They Came From, Trinity, Scion, etc) because that's something WW/OP has usually done really well.
It's been over a year since my table switched to Shadow of the Demon Lord and Stars Without Numbers (2 great systems btw) There's only so much you can do with D&D 5e before you have to start homebrewing mechanics or stretching your chosen aesthetic thin, and in many cases the answer you needed was there all along, in the form of a different system
Great video. We switched to Shadowdark RPG and it provides all the danger, drama and feel of OSR D&D without the corporate drama or over powered characters. Everyone should play whatever makes them happy, including 5E, but I couldn't agree more you dont know if you are playing the right game for you if you haven't at least tried a few others.
Y'know, you make a great point about D&D not being representative of how long it takes to learn an RPG system. I never really thought about it, even though it seems super obvious in retrospect. I'll have to keep that in mind if ever I need to persuade some D&D-folk away from the system!
Last year, I made it a goal to try other TTRPGs, and I had a lot of fun playing VtM 5, the new Transformers Essence 20 game and even Star Wars. I haven't played Blades yet, but that's a goal for me for this year. But as they say, "man can't live on bread alone".
I personally have a long history with D&D and other TTRPGs. My first game of D&D was in 1991, when a friend's brother got the Basic D&D Red Box as a gift. I had been interested in D&D for a few years, checking copies of Dragon Magazine out of my local library, and looking in the window of a local hobby shop. But it wasn't long before another passion of mine crossed over with TTRPGs: I discovered the West End Games Star Wars game, and began to run it along with playing AD&D 2E. In fact it took me a few years after starting to play D&D before I began running it, while I had been running Star Wars games for that entire time. Fast forward to 1996. Neither my library nor the local hobby shop have had new issues of Dragon Magazine in months. Rumors online are that TSR, Inc. is having financial troubles. At the same time, I am having trouble getting a new D&D group together. In fact it will be a few more years before I can scrape together a group that alternates between Vampire: the Masquerade 3E and AD&D. The the news comes that Wizards of the Coast has acquired TSR. The news gave me mixed feelings. I'd dabbled in Magic: the Gathering, but had never really mastered the game, mostly due to the high cost of entering the CCG hobby. But the news that a new game company was going to publish D&D, and continue publishing Dragon Magazine, gave me hope. I continued playing WEG Star Wars even after they lost the Star Wars license. I played and ran Vampire, Shadowrun, and delved into fan communities for the Ravenloft and Planescape campaign settings. Third edition D&D was released, and my initial skepticism over the new edition was destroyed by how differently the mechanics were streamlined in 3E as opposed to 2E. You have to understand: AD&D 2E was a mess. It had been designed to be backwards compatible with AD&D 1E because the suits at TSR didn't want the AD&D 1E books in their warehouse to stop selling (sound familiar?). As a result, between 1989 and 1999, while the TTRPG hobby grew and evolved, AD&D had been stagnant. The streamlined mechanics in 3E were like a breath of fresh air to me. I remember thinking, why would I ever want to play 2E ever again? It was a bad system compared to 3E. Fast forward to 2002. WotC has announced a 3.5 edition. I was not interested. Not until I joined a new group in 2004 did I buy the 3.5 PHB. Soon afterwards, that group fell apart, and I began playing in Organized Play, namely Living Greyhawk. From 2005 to 2008 I pretty much only played 3.5 and only in Organized Play. I made a lot of good friends in those days, and a lot of games are a bit of a blur. Then in 2007 at Gen*Con, WotC announced 4E. I decided this time to take a wait and see approach rather than outright refuse to play the game. I had joined a home campaign playing Star Wars Saga Edition (I still had the urge to play or run in that galaxy far, far, away), and we decided to give 4E a try by running the starter adventure. Several of the other players were turned off it, but I liked it. And when Living Greyhawk ended, and a new organized play campaign began, namely Living Forgotten Realms, I decided to join it rather than play Pathfinder Society. But it was not easy finding a venue to play LFR. The hobby shop in Manhattan where I played, Neutral Ground, was forced to close. I eventually joined another group running LFR, but there were issues with the organizer, and some of the players. Then my schedule changed and I suddenly had no time to play anyway, Pathfinder eventually outsold 4E. WotC decided to bet everything on an open playtest, and the result was D&D Next. I joined a new hobby shop in Brooklyn, where they were running D&D Next, and I liked it. When 5E launched, I was there playing Hoard of the Dragon Queen. But then I moved halfway around the world, and had to downsize my sizable collection of RPGs. I kept my 5E books, and looked for a new group. Over time I have found new and old friends, and we play 5E together. I've been playing and running 5E since launch, and I like it. But I also like Shadowrun, Mustants & Masterminds, Gamma World, and other TTRPGs. But I find it tricky to convince others to play them. I have exceptional qualms about the 2024 rebranding (or whatever WotC is calling it this week) of D&D. I have been down this road four times, once for 3E, once for 3.5, once for 4E and once for 5E. I'm done with edition changes. I don't see myself buying the new books in 2024. But I also don't want to stop playing 5E.
love the story! 5e has had my heart for the longest time, but that's my biggest pet peeve - sometimes we play D&D bc it's the *only* game we can put together a table for. those desperate for the ttrpg experience often have no choice but to ride the wave. What I'd give for a culture shift to try everything else, just the one time 😂
Can i just say i've seen a bunch of people read through books but Wintry reading has so much fun and curiosity to it. There is a light hearted approach to learning the games and its not all about criticizing the rules and making sure everything is balanced which is usually how these videos go. Never change and keep that fun and curiosity that makes you Wintry.
So so happy that you showed Ryuutama at the end of your video! Farmers, minstrels, nobles, nekogoblins and ryuujin for the win!!! While I still enjoy and play D+D, I stumbled upon Ryuutama back in 2018, and was thoroughly delighted by it! More people need to be sharing the wonder and smiles of this storytelling game! Thank you!
Glad your discovering new systems. It would be interesting to see you youngsters play some of the older stuff & rate the comparison.For an example: 2e or 3-3.5e vs 5e, older stuff is more detailed, but you can do vastly more without having to devise a ruleset that isn't there or worded horribly... 5e, lol.
Everyone is afraid of the latest buzz word. "Number crunch." As if maintaining a few numbers as a player is the equivalent of being a multithread processor...
I only started playing D&D in 2020. Before that we played a bunch of ttrpgs. My absolute favorite is the system my boyfriend crafted himself to play in the Star Wars universe. It's mostly based on Call of Cthulhu, but takes many inspirations from other games too. Sure, there are a few balancing problems and things he didn't account for, but that usually is no big deal.
Thank you for this, Wintry. In light of a recent event involving Wizards of the Coast's continued poor decisions, I've decided to research other systems that I could like better. And this video helps reassure me that it's the best thing I can do. Hecc, a couple hours ago I didn't know Ryuutama existed. Now I'm about to send your video on it to a friend of mine and ask if he'd be interested. I've already been looking at Blades In The Dark, too, so may as well add to the party! Your content is lovely, and your talking style feel like a comfy hug. I appreciate you joining many others in helping us small beginners find other systems beyond just The Main One. Keep being awesome 💜.
We recently played a game of 1E (with a few modifications like translating THAC0) after not having played that version for decades. As much as I like 5E, there was a refreshing simplicity that I think we've lost.
I have always been a non D&D/D20 person. I really started playing TTRPGs in 1987 with Star Wars. It was made by West End Games,and was a 6D system. I loved the eazy quick rules. I never used minis. After that I found two anime TTRPGs. Mekton Z(10D system) and Heavy Gear and Jovin Chronicles by Dream Pod 9 (a different type of 6D system). So yeah, I am a Science Fiction (mainly Space Opera), Anime( mostly Mecha,and anime cyberpunk) I prefer TTRPGs that use only one type of dice(6 and 10D are my favorites),and attitude and skills(no level,or class based systems)
Firelights and that other one seem really cool! Playing with a deck of cards really sidesteps my complaint with PBTA style games. I just don’t find d6 based games as fun as d20 style games but now you got be considering something different! Thanks!!
If you want to try and get into an EXTREMELY roleplay heavy ttrpg but also very very fun combat that is just so narrative and practically anything you do in the game feels like a movie. Please try "The Wildsea" I have been having such a fricking blast with it, its not that complex to learn and it just makes you have a fun creative time by doing literally anything because you decide how you do things and how you use things with very loose discriptions
I recommend Alien in cinematic mode, each player have their own agenda trying to do, put on top of that alien and people being suspicious of each other then rolelpay comes naturally. There are accusations, trying to get people on your side or go specific direction while trying to hide who you really are. It's super fun I finished first scenario and 1 person survived
My first table top rpg was dnd 3.5 but my group also did G.U.R.P.S. for marvel style one shots when someone wasn't available, soon I also was in games using the world of darkness settings, Vampire the Masquerade, and probably my favorite ttrpg of all time Werewolf the Apocalypse. So I have played a few non DND table tops and even made a few when I was board or didn't have a group. I am glad that a lot of the community has highlighted so many ones I haven't heard of because of the problems earlier created by Hasbro/ wizards. Great video
I still don't understand why Sword World 2.5 isn't translated officially to english or any other western language. For all the videos I've seen about the system, it looks really fun. It uses only 2d6 to resolve anything in the game.
This is extremely insightful, simple, and thought-provoking. I know I've wanted to try a few games outside of D&D given...recent events, and these reasons seem like good ones. I'll have to consider what I can do to create opportunities to play new games. You earned yourself a new sub. :)
I think word started out as "5e is more simple than other editions of d&d" and then it got telephoned into "5e is as simple as you can expect for a TTRPG" because "Well d&d has been the most popular for ages, and so it's gotta be the best at something (heck, maybe even everything!) and people talk about it being so much simpler, so it's gotta be the best option for people getting into the hobby!" Which definitely is not the case. It's an amazing starter for many people but definitely *not* the simplest to start with, and by far one of the more difficult to prep for as a DM. If you want genuinely simple, I highly recommend: Dungeon World (for more high powered, heroic fantasy) and Cairn (for more perilous, low fantasy) I've also heard great things about: Shadowdark (as a hybrid of high power heroics and high peril) Apocalypse World (for Fallout and Wasteland-ish campaigns) And Index Card Rpg (for more general but customizable fantasy rpg mechanics)
I started with non-D&D games in the late 1980s. I first played D&D in the early 2000s and haven't been that impressed every-time I have tried it. I find gamers who started with D&D are much less likely to even try other systems than the reverse. A strange phenomena.
This is such an important video, thank you! I played over 200+ games of 5e and I did enjoy it, but as you say doing anything for that long can start to get stale. Since we finished our campaign, our group has done Monsterhearts, Thirsty Sword Lesbians, Monster of the Week, and I'm now running them through some Coriolis, and they're having a blast. Not only that but it's so fun challenging myself with new systems and ways to play.
three years for now at 5e as GM and i still love it. but... there is many more games that I want to explore. PF 2e of course, Mouse Guard and one of my fav - Ten Candles. Wish, i have more time =)
well my relashionship with dnd ends with my campain and im going to play shadow of the demon lord instead and shadow of the wierd wizard when its relise
Are you planning on putting out more videos on the other games you look into? Unfortunatly I don't have the time, to commit to streams, but I'd love some more videos like the Ryuutama one. It was really inspiring and interesting!
I really enjoy your channel, and while I still love playing D&D I've always wanted to play other things but there's so much on offer that I don't know where to start, what to spend my time on, and I end up just sticking with D&D. I try to see your streams, but it really is a format that is not useful to me. I understand it's a lot of work to edit videos, but I would really appreciate if you could you do some summary some of the ones you liked the most, and I'm sure many more would appreciate it too! :) In any case, great job with the channel and I hope you continue to enjoy this hobby!
i have a small handful of long-form videos in the works for my favorite games I've read! I don't have the time to cover every game in that detail, but I'm working towards 1-minute shorts for quick summaries of all of the 99. thanks so much for watching!
It is refreshing to see people talk about ACTUALLY DIFFERENT TTRPGS for once. Pf2e is good system, but not actually that different from 5e if you have ttrpg experience, even if pf evangelists try to say otherwise.
You should try digging up some older games too. Many have newer editions but some of the older ones are pretty neat and offer fascinating perspectives on combat vs. role playing.
I've started playing other TTRPG's recently and I have found some that are so much fun like Pathfinder 2e, Starfinder, Masks, Power Rangers TTRPG, Carin, Zweihander, and one you should check out Siver is one called Fabula Ultima a "TTJRPG" if your a fan of JRPG's like Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest you'll love this one I hope you continue finding more TTRPG's cause some of your recommendations have been awesome.
The FATE rulebook was such an eye-opener for me. I had never read a rule set so self-aware regarding what it is the players are seated at the table to do. The approach to the game and to game-mastering is full of universal principles that can apply to any game, because that's the entire focus behind the rules write-up. And it's all available 100% free on the FATE SRD, the only stuff you can just read freely on the net is the licensed products like Spirit of the Century or the Dresden Files versions.
After the first couple people need to realise that basically ALL RPGs are the same. Some stats, some combat rules, but mostly it is chucking dice (or some otherway of generating a random number/event) to get a target number. Back in the day we played EVERYTHING that came along. I can grab a character sheet and create a character in pretty much any RPG on the fly now.
My favorite thing to do with 5e is to just add rules and subsystems from Cypher System to 5e over time until my players are trained to play another game with infinitely more setting and genre variability than 5e without even knowing they learned another game system. Start with the Cypher System rules for handing out XP and assigning DCs to rolls and see how much it livens up 5e sessions. By the time one player starts complaining about how there aren't enough subclass combos in 5e for them to brainstorm their next character hand them a Cypher System book with the Focuses section opened.
My partner runs her sci-fi game in the Savage worlds system because it's super rules light and easy to quickly do things like combat or skill challeneges. Our group is much more interested in telling a 85 to 15 precent story telling vs dungeon crawling so it's suited us very well.
Been playing Runequest for years…….so many stories to tell in this incredibly rich Bronze Age mythic fantasy setting. But I would hate to be limited just to Runequest, despite how much I love it. Cyberpunk Red, Dune, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, Elric/Stormbringer, Call of Cthulhu, all games with very different approaches and all provide very different experiences for players and GM’s alike. Honestly, only sticking to dnd, is a bit like deciding monopoly is the best board game ever, and refusing to ever try chess, backgammon, go, risk or scrabble. It makes no sense.
Recently, my buddy has been looking into Pathfinder and I might try it up, especially for the aforementioned reasons of… External factors playing DND not so appealing. So here’s hoping for the best.
We fully abandoned D&D for Castles & Crusades. It's a better version of D&D than 5e is. The entire C&C PHB, with GM content added, comes in at only 210 pages. It was the game that Gary stated he had wished D&D would have been instead of 3e when C&C originally came out. A simple to learn, simple to run system without the massive 5e bloat.
Yeah, keep exploring games, expand your horizons. The various ways of play really helps put things in context, along with just realizing how much 'junk' D&D has when it comes to useless mechanics that are either niche cases or just such a pain to deal with constantly people just ignore them. Though I'd like to make a video to game designers "It doesn't need to be Powered by the Apocalypse". The problem with it is that it 'appears' flexible, but it isn't. And a lot of indie game designers immediately take their setting (or million dollar IP) and just slap PbtA on it and go 'look, its a game.' Or even worse, mangle the system by convoluting it with a ton of add on rules that go's against the whole idea of the system just to make it fit the setting, making the game both no longer simple, cohesive, or engaging. PbtA requires a 'very' specific play style, heavy narrative, low combat, even if it 'appears' to have combat it's not, its just "narrative conflict style B". There's no real tactics in the system when it comes to combat, instead it plays out like a very anemic turn based RPG with a 50% ish chance to hit. You play PbtA less like 'you' are going on and adventure, you play PbtA like your cosplaying a character in a TV show. Which is great for when the setting revolves around that, Monster of the Week is Scoobie Doo simulator, MonsterHearts is late 00's edgy teen drama sim, Blades in the Dark is effectively if Dishonored had a crime thriller TV series (look, its a PbtA game but with dice pools, same statistics and math, along with revolving around playbooks. You even have a 'flashback' style system that makes it more 'TV show' esque). These are good, heck, great games, but notice just the settings 'immediately' have a story. Monster of the week, you deal with constant monster threats or uncovering mysteries. Monster Hearts is literally pulp drama and messy romance, you already know 'exactly' someone is going to have a messy break up and then get back together. Blades in the Dartk, criminal intrigue and Ocean's 11 styled break ins. And they 'only' do those things, but they do them really well. Your really not going to get a sandbox campaign where the players wander their way into some sort of gang fight and have to kickbox their way out of it, maneuvering minis to get a better chance at headshotting someone, and then deal with the aftermath with the police using intrigue and mystery to figure out that there's a mole in the police station trying to get you in trouble. That's why seeing 50 something games be released with Powered by the Apocalypse rules is annoying because it's like D&D players but on the other side, make rules that fit the setting, don't just use PbtA unless you know that it will fit its very ridged story structure. *Make different games* Also doesn't help that there's a hint of... scummyness when people use it, especially big companies, as the designer of the system, Vincent Baker, screwed up when writing the licensing for his system, to where anyone can use it without crediting him except in like, the deepest margins in the book no one reads, and that he effectively is begging for money every kickstarter cause a ton of "sizable indie companies' just stole his system and he doesn't get a penny from any of it.
There are so many games and I play D&D in multiple groups with around 10+ players. It's great for people who have time and money to unlock and grab new games. Fill you're boots. But I am 100% ok with sticking to the game that is keeping my friend group together.
D&D Beyond I've found to be the biggest barrier because players end up relying on it to fill a sheet, and so not being able to automatically fill a sheet results in players not going out of their comfort zone. Even if a system barely has a character sheet, it's almost like asking them to learn programming, instead of just filling in the boxes. I've had players borderline afraid of Microlite20 because it didn't have a sheet creator.
Whenever I teach new players for a one-shot, I always prepare them for character creation a week in advance for the inevitable questions. I need more ppl to know not every game is like this 😅
Demiplane is the fix for that - by the original folks behind DnDBeyond and supporting lots of systems. The 5e Nexus (system container) is in closed beta, but if the Pathfinder Nexus is anything to go by, it will rock all the socks off (and then some). I’m hoping to put my post-apocalyptic fantasy setting on it as soon as I can, but the backbone isn’t ready yet (apparently).
RYUUTAMA MENTION jokes aside, I appreciate you making this video, it was a relaxing reminder to try different games and see what you can personally enjoy about ttrpgs
The biggest draw for me to play 5e is the specific class mechanics they have... Genie warlock in particular. Still want to play my genie at some point... Though, that still depends on me getting to actually play it... Though, our year long hiatus has ended for my rl group and we're picking our BESM campaign back up.
Try a solo campaign with that Genie Warlock. Tell their story how you want to tell it. There are several GM Emulators out there for running a game solo.
That's really cool! Have you learned anything about which types of TRPGs you personally really enjoy? For example, I've learned that there is a sweet spot of crunchiness I enjoy in a game that is greater than Kids on Bikes and less than Pathfinder lol
That is almost EXACTLY the two i use as my complexity scale lol. I quite enjoy when I can math out optimal choices and play with those odds, especially when there's no permanently right answer to every situation. Number-crunching is super fun for me, and being rewarded for my research and time committed is very satisfying :D thanks for asking!
The more I play DnD the more I realise I just like rolling dice, specifically the simplicity of a d20. My "tweak dnd" mentality with my homebrew is basically a different game at this point, the only similarity being the dice and the separation of species and classes.
I thought this was an “I quit table top rpgs.” Was looking to see what life is like when you do that because my current dnd campaign is killing me inside and likelihood of finding a good campaign is slim in my area
I've been spoiled, I don't think I could ever fully quit! I thought the same thing, as my local area has basically no D&D scene. It took scrounging around some Roll20 LFGs and an open mind to online play that really opened the doors to great campaigns. It's different, but still good =)
@@WintryRPG Yeah I tried playing online, not into it. Im quitting because my group has played 7 sessions in the past 35 weeks and are fine with that. Might pick it up again if/when I move to sydney and I'll be spoiled for choice.
It's precisely the fact that there are so many games out there with new ones being released every day that makes me not want to go beyond DND most of the time.
Totally reasonable! In a world where time is precious and personal investment even moreso, I'd never antagonize someone who sticks with what they're comfortable with.
Subscribed because I want to see your comments on Tarot-based RPG. ... In my case, talking specifically about D&D, I grew up with AD&D and 3.5, and then playtested the hell out of 5e back when it was called D&D Next. But idk... 5e wasn't and has never been my thing at all, but it's the go-to system in my closest group of friends so I'm very familiar with it and I just don't like it, hahaha. I prefer B/X-like or Moldvay-like to run D&D. Lamentations of the Flame Princess has been my retro clone to go for years now, and more recently I started to borrow some things I might need with the help of Old School Essentials. But my favorite genre and system has always been Call of Cthulhu, and more recently Delta Green. SO GOOD.
What I learned from playing non DnD games: Death awaits at every step, the world is very unforgiving. Being too confident, too greedy are the reason why you will die. It's easy to act brave but can you survive being brave?
after about half a yer of playing 5e I've switched to pf2e that beside fixing most problems with 5e I had, it gives more and more content that improves the game further now after another half a year of playing pf2e (when I also run one adventure for a first time) I am looking at the Lancer but I am worried that I would have huge difficulty finding group that speaks my native language
I would love to start a RuneQuest group but all the players I know are locked into 5e. I'm hoping 6e with it's price increases and even more restrictive rules will break them free of WOTC/HASBO's insatiable greed.
I feel like since D&D has such a stranglehold on the general genre of ttrpgs, it's hard to find a good group of people willing to try a new system. Like it's hard enough at times to find people to come together to play D&D so I feel it will be even harder to find people to play other systems.
I'm running into this as an outsider. I was away from the hobby for a long, long time. When I was into it back in the 90s, D&D was almost dead. Very few people played it. My game store of choice had two or three games going every night of the week, and none of them were D&D. So, when I got back into the hobby in 2019, I figured I'd be able to pick right up where I left off. Instead, I found a wall of D&D/Pathfinder (which is just D&D with some extra buttons & dials). My local game store literally refused to carry anything else. The only games going on in the store were D&D or Pathfinder. Putting my name up on a bulletin board with "willing to run virtually anything but D&D" got me 3 responses in 3 years. And one of those responses wanted me to run D&D. As was true in the days of AD&D 2nd Ed., the game's biggest enemy is the company that owns it. So, thanks to everything that went on at the beginning of the year, I'm starting to see some interest in other games. That local game store even started carrying a few other games. I hope it's a sign of good things to come. And maybe I'll be able to assemble a group around a table again, willing to try different games.
Agreed. My wife is an avid board gamer and has over fifty games. She said that someone who only plays D&D is no more a roleplayer than someone who only plays Monopoly is a boardgamer, rather than a Monopoly player. D&D doesn't even have that good a rule system, and it's run by moneygrubbers who have turned it into 'roll playing".
Answer is this: if ppl play dnd are they playing it for the SYSTEM or for the BRAND? If for the system then with the dnd name removed it’s fine to play 5th edition. If for the brand rhen all they know dnd could make six different versions using various systems labeled dnd. But if that’s the case then it should be fine to try our various systems and rpgs it’s tied to righr? Unless the name dnd is that dominating to the person.
I cannot recommend pathfinder 2e enough to anyone who's looking to have a similar feeling experience to dnd but wants to distance themselves from wotc and hasbro. I had my start in dnd 3.5 but relatively quickly switched to pathfinder 1e and have been playing that for close to 10 years now picking up other systems like Lancer BitD and PTU in the process, played dnd 5e for about 2 years aswell but never got too attracted due to it being, let's be honest, extremely barebones for what it pretends to offer, plus there's no way in hell I'll keep paying for a product I need to make work with my own time and effort, I should have the option to modify the system to fit my needs not be forced to do it, and abandoned when Tasha's came out. Around September last year one of my groups decided to give pf2 a try it has been going amazingly well past the "honeymoon period" that new games tend to have, I still prefer the massive wealth of options and overall style of play pf1 offers but I can confidently say pf2 does everything dnd 5e sets out to do, better, and with no need for homebrewing your own balancing in, plus with the amout of informational content and (almost always) welcoming community it will genuinely be a more engaging and less time consuming process to learn how to play pf2 compared to turning 5e into something it isn't while trying to make sense of the non existent guidelines the DMG "provides". It's even accessible for free online legally, the only real problem I've seen people have with pf2 is when they assume it's just a homebrewed version of 5e and jump in with a lot of assumption held over from the previous system. A little addition I think it's important to make, at the time of this comment being wrote pf2 is due for its remaster, which is a process of tweaking the balance and writing of the system to both address some long standing issues with the game and diverge completely from wotc's OGL, the first part should come towards the end of the year and it will still be available for free online, so as a heads up (which Paizo themselves gave) newcomers might want to hold off purchasing the books for now.
I like D&D I will always buy the lore book. That being said I think moving to a PC table top is terrible idea. What sets it apart from video games is its not video game, that's why people like it your with people the tactile experience of paper and pen and being with friends. Make the books, the miniatures affordable. Next it's too bloated trying to be too many things for too many people. Now you can say well those rules or races are optional but once you put a rule or a race out there it's hard to get a table to agree to optional rules. "OK everyone this time it's Dwarves and elves only." "But a want a halfing" "well I had a warforge last time.". When you buy a new game system it says "Humans only." Then you cut off alot of that "But what about this in this book?"
I totally get it! Not every game has the privilege of 50 years of advertising. My wish for TTRPGs moving forward is a more open mind to trying out other games after D&D, which is quite often the a very thin gateway.
Honestly a lot of it is not knowing where to start. I know there are tons and tons of systems out there, but I also know that a large number of them are bad, oversimplified, trying too hard to be avant garde, or just hyperspecific to their setting.
Ever since my group started trying out new systems since the whole OGL thing, I haven't found a system that I liked more than 5e, but I certainly found aspects of other systems that I would like to see in the main game that we play. Also has there ever been an interest in starting your own discord?
People just want to play a system with a big player base, most dont want to learn new systems all the time to find a group. Until another system gains critical mass people will be playing D&D
I'm a 30+ year D&D player/DM. I no longer play D&D because I've grown to hate the outdated, unbalanced, and non-sensical rule system. The 2024 D&D release will be the children's edition.
What got me irked on D&D 5e? They 'improved' the game by... removing stuff from it. Not just 'sensitive' content (which isn't going to change people from running 'sensitive' topics if that's what their group wants)- but I mean even the weapons and armor list is... sad.
That's what got me back into it... I don't really like 30 different polearms.... Especially when mechanically they're all the same with the slightest differences. And I like the bounded accuracy. As the plusses and minuses became more absurd, I lost interest... And I'm a bookkeeper, so plusses and minuses are my life.
@@SerifSansSerif that's just it- those differences were crucial. There's a large difference between a sword with finesse and a sword with versatile. The fact that you bought into the game when it *removed options* (not REQUIREMENTS) tells me that bookkeeping must suck.
5e has such a walled garden effect on the ttrpg community. What the world really needs are more short cohesive "hook" videos and blog posts that get people interested in more than D&D. Blades in The Dark and Lancer are two exceptional tabletops for this in my opinion. Mechanically low to the ground, but unique! They're not run like D&D at all, but they're simple enough that they're not too scary to learn
I wanted my DnD group to get into Mork Borg but they don't want to play psychopaths where their actions in the end don't matter because world will end
It's the Kool-Aid effect, a brand so dominant that it supplants the hobby as a whole, and due to being so dominant, it chokes out nearly every other option purely through availability.
It's a crapshoot finding a specific title at a physical store or a more local/regional online stockist, but you KNOW D&D is available there. If you buy the products outside of D&D, you can read to your hearts content, but the chances of finding a table running it is damn near impossible. If you want to play it, you're almost certainly going to be the game-master, and we all know the disparity in numbers between players willing to GM and those that aren't. And if you *are* content to run the system you want to play, you're gonna have to actively convince people to try it, and half the people at the table are still likely to be sitting there and ending each session with "so when are we getting back to D&D?"
There's a lot of quirks with D&D that I dislike, but I generally enjoy my time playing it. The one thing I actively hate about D&D is it only really does D&D well, and chokes the diversity out of the hobby. Familiarity breeds contempt.
That's the thing!! There aren't enough small, short, easy, "explain like I'm 5" type videos on other games!! Other games don't have enough community to make them easier to learn and easier to hook in people. It's sad. I want to play Ironclaw but I just don't understand the magic in it and I wish there were better videos explaining it, cuz it just doesn't make sense when I look through the book cuz there isn't a single section explaining it and I feel like I'm missing the paragraph that explains it every time, but I think legit there isn't one.
Lancer's battle system is one of the more complex ones, on par or exceeding D&D5E. The roleplay (non-Mech parts) have very simple mechanics so you get back to the crunchy parts faster
When I stopped playing 5e and started running alternate systems, I realised I have some really large gaps in my DMing skills. Mainly making special fights without resorting to homebrewing the entire system, or using puzzles with the player's abilities. In 5e, I had to homebrew everything anyway, so it made making special fights easier and I could use the homebrew as material for my puzzles. I've been learning how to make things engaging without needing to homebrew stuff, and to make more interesting puzzles. It's going well so far, and hopefully it just keeps getting better.
I learned to describe attacks which is good idea in every system. Because system I'm running is very simple and magic is scare. Players roll to attack and players roll to defend, 90% of combat is 2 groups trying to stab each other so instead just telling players to roll I additionally narrate
Oh god thank you for actually stating that truly "learning" DnD 5e is an effort that takes months.
So many times I hear "Just start with DnD, its the simplest one"
5e is painfully simple compared to its' previous iterations. It should not take you months to learn a system that is 90% "Lol I dunno, you paid us 60 bucks for a bunch of paper that boils down to 'Let the DM figure it out!' Any time it gets even a little complicated because we're afraid of number crunch suddenly now."
I mean, Most people only do sessions once a week. Its very common to see DMs still trying to juggle and having to look up rules that are very much there after that amount of time. Even the starter set is just woefully inadequate by todays 5e standard.
Its roughly the same number of pages for rules as pathfinder 2e, Split into multiple books and without a standard format.
Its painfully simple compared to 3.5 but is still magnitudes more complex than any of the truly rules light systems out there.
This video is so encouraging. My friends and I were a bunch of forever DMs that were constantly running D&D from 3.5 to 5e, and we all had piles of other games we wanted to try, so we started our streaming group DMs After Dark to highlight and boost actual play examples of lesser known games. I hope more people realize that, like you said, not every game requires you to learn so much like 5e, and there are games that are better for the stories they want to tell. Honestly, some of my favorites are games you're *supposed* to kind of wing in a one-shot format. Keep exploring the scene, hope you find more you love!
Wintry, you have no idea how much I appreciate this wholesome approach you have in your videos. it makes watching them a delight. Thank you for that.
0:30
Lmao you have no idea how often I've felt like the person behind that door.
Love this video. There's a frustrating back & forth with conversations that can run tensions weirdly high. Thanks for being the chill mediator.
I'm glad you've been enjoying new games and telling new stories! You've brought a number of really interesting games to my attention, and I look forward to learning about more!
I stumbled across this and I love it. I stopped running D&D a long time ago, for a variety of reasons, but it was at a time when it was *normal* for gamers to have several systems they could break out at any time. Which is how I learned that I prefered Point Build over Class/Level, and if I wasn't using a generic system (and despite all efforts and claims to the contrary, D&D based D20 is not a generic system) I liked the system to support the genre rules and conventions that went with the setting. That's why I love the original Legend of the Five Rings and 7th Sea - though I like 2nd ed 7th Sea too, but it is a different game. I also really like most of the White Wolf/Onyx Path catalog of games (World of Darkness, Chronicle of Darkness, They Came From, Trinity, Scion, etc) because that's something WW/OP has usually done really well.
It's been over a year since my table switched to Shadow of the Demon Lord and Stars Without Numbers (2 great systems btw)
There's only so much you can do with D&D 5e before you have to start homebrewing mechanics or stretching your chosen aesthetic thin, and in many cases the answer you needed was there all along, in the form of a different system
Yes!!!!! Playing only D&D week in and week out gets exhausting. No wonder there is a DM shortage. Thanks for encouraging folks to branch out.
love your videos wintry. its really clear that you put a lot of thought and energy into everything you make and your passion inspires me
Great video. We switched to Shadowdark RPG and it provides all the danger, drama and feel of OSR D&D without the corporate drama or over powered characters. Everyone should play whatever makes them happy, including 5E, but I couldn't agree more you dont know if you are playing the right game for you if you haven't at least tried a few others.
Y'know, you make a great point about D&D not being representative of how long it takes to learn an RPG system. I never really thought about it, even though it seems super obvious in retrospect. I'll have to keep that in mind if ever I need to persuade some D&D-folk away from the system!
Ryuutama, Mouse Guard RPG, Fabula Ultima, ICRPG, Knave, and so on. I feel free after I get out of the D&D box.
Last year, I made it a goal to try other TTRPGs, and I had a lot of fun playing VtM 5, the new Transformers Essence 20 game and even Star Wars. I haven't played Blades yet, but that's a goal for me for this year. But as they say, "man can't live on bread alone".
D&D was actually my 3rd TTRPG. First was Doctor Who, second was Mistborn. Both are a little different but super fun!
I personally have a long history with D&D and other TTRPGs. My first game of D&D was in 1991, when a friend's brother got the Basic D&D Red Box as a gift. I had been interested in D&D for a few years, checking copies of Dragon Magazine out of my local library, and looking in the window of a local hobby shop. But it wasn't long before another passion of mine crossed over with TTRPGs: I discovered the West End Games Star Wars game, and began to run it along with playing AD&D 2E. In fact it took me a few years after starting to play D&D before I began running it, while I had been running Star Wars games for that entire time.
Fast forward to 1996. Neither my library nor the local hobby shop have had new issues of Dragon Magazine in months. Rumors online are that TSR, Inc. is having financial troubles. At the same time, I am having trouble getting a new D&D group together. In fact it will be a few more years before I can scrape together a group that alternates between Vampire: the Masquerade 3E and AD&D. The the news comes that Wizards of the Coast has acquired TSR. The news gave me mixed feelings. I'd dabbled in Magic: the Gathering, but had never really mastered the game, mostly due to the high cost of entering the CCG hobby. But the news that a new game company was going to publish D&D, and continue publishing Dragon Magazine, gave me hope.
I continued playing WEG Star Wars even after they lost the Star Wars license. I played and ran Vampire, Shadowrun, and delved into fan communities for the Ravenloft and Planescape campaign settings. Third edition D&D was released, and my initial skepticism over the new edition was destroyed by how differently the mechanics were streamlined in 3E as opposed to 2E. You have to understand: AD&D 2E was a mess. It had been designed to be backwards compatible with AD&D 1E because the suits at TSR didn't want the AD&D 1E books in their warehouse to stop selling (sound familiar?). As a result, between 1989 and 1999, while the TTRPG hobby grew and evolved, AD&D had been stagnant. The streamlined mechanics in 3E were like a breath of fresh air to me. I remember thinking, why would I ever want to play 2E ever again? It was a bad system compared to 3E.
Fast forward to 2002. WotC has announced a 3.5 edition. I was not interested. Not until I joined a new group in 2004 did I buy the 3.5 PHB. Soon afterwards, that group fell apart, and I began playing in Organized Play, namely Living Greyhawk. From 2005 to 2008 I pretty much only played 3.5 and only in Organized Play. I made a lot of good friends in those days, and a lot of games are a bit of a blur. Then in 2007 at Gen*Con, WotC announced 4E. I decided this time to take a wait and see approach rather than outright refuse to play the game. I had joined a home campaign playing Star Wars Saga Edition (I still had the urge to play or run in that galaxy far, far, away), and we decided to give 4E a try by running the starter adventure. Several of the other players were turned off it, but I liked it. And when Living Greyhawk ended, and a new organized play campaign began, namely Living Forgotten Realms, I decided to join it rather than play Pathfinder Society.
But it was not easy finding a venue to play LFR. The hobby shop in Manhattan where I played, Neutral Ground, was forced to close. I eventually joined another group running LFR, but there were issues with the organizer, and some of the players. Then my schedule changed and I suddenly had no time to play anyway,
Pathfinder eventually outsold 4E. WotC decided to bet everything on an open playtest, and the result was D&D Next. I joined a new hobby shop in Brooklyn, where they were running D&D Next, and I liked it. When 5E launched, I was there playing Hoard of the Dragon Queen. But then I moved halfway around the world, and had to downsize my sizable collection of RPGs. I kept my 5E books, and looked for a new group. Over time I have found new and old friends, and we play 5E together. I've been playing and running 5E since launch, and I like it. But I also like Shadowrun, Mustants & Masterminds, Gamma World, and other TTRPGs. But I find it tricky to convince others to play them.
I have exceptional qualms about the 2024 rebranding (or whatever WotC is calling it this week) of D&D. I have been down this road four times, once for 3E, once for 3.5, once for 4E and once for 5E. I'm done with edition changes. I don't see myself buying the new books in 2024. But I also don't want to stop playing 5E.
love the story! 5e has had my heart for the longest time, but that's my biggest pet peeve - sometimes we play D&D bc it's the *only* game we can put together a table for. those desperate for the ttrpg experience often have no choice but to ride the wave. What I'd give for a culture shift to try everything else, just the one time 😂
Can i just say i've seen a bunch of people read through books but Wintry reading has so much fun and curiosity to it. There is a light hearted approach to learning the games and its not all about criticizing the rules and making sure everything is balanced which is usually how these videos go. Never change and keep that fun and curiosity that makes you Wintry.
So so happy that you showed Ryuutama at the end of your video! Farmers, minstrels, nobles, nekogoblins and ryuujin for the win!!! While I still enjoy and play D+D, I stumbled upon Ryuutama back in 2018, and was thoroughly delighted by it! More people need to be sharing the wonder and smiles of this storytelling game! Thank you!
it's the first game outside D&D i read! I've got a soft spot for it :D
Glad your discovering new systems. It would be interesting to see you youngsters play some of the older stuff & rate the comparison.For an example: 2e or 3-3.5e vs 5e, older stuff is more detailed, but you can do vastly more without having to devise a ruleset that isn't there or worded horribly... 5e, lol.
Everyone is afraid of the latest buzz word. "Number crunch." As if maintaining a few numbers as a player is the equivalent of being a multithread processor...
I only started playing D&D in 2020. Before that we played a bunch of ttrpgs. My absolute favorite is the system my boyfriend crafted himself to play in the Star Wars universe. It's mostly based on Call of Cthulhu, but takes many inspirations from other games too. Sure, there are a few balancing problems and things he didn't account for, but that usually is no big deal.
I love the optimism and determination this video casually paints a sign with and plants it next to a road less traveled.
Thank you for this, Wintry. In light of a recent event involving Wizards of the Coast's continued poor decisions, I've decided to research other systems that I could like better. And this video helps reassure me that it's the best thing I can do. Hecc, a couple hours ago I didn't know Ryuutama existed. Now I'm about to send your video on it to a friend of mine and ask if he'd be interested. I've already been looking at Blades In The Dark, too, so may as well add to the party! Your content is lovely, and your talking style feel like a comfy hug. I appreciate you joining many others in helping us small beginners find other systems beyond just The Main One. Keep being awesome 💜.
We recently played a game of 1E (with a few modifications like translating THAC0) after not having played that version for decades. As much as I like 5E, there was a refreshing simplicity that I think we've lost.
can you link me to your charts for that please?
I have always been a non D&D/D20 person. I really started playing TTRPGs in 1987 with Star Wars. It was made by West End Games,and was a 6D system. I loved the eazy quick rules. I never used minis. After that I found two anime TTRPGs. Mekton Z(10D system) and Heavy Gear and Jovin Chronicles by Dream Pod 9 (a different type of 6D system). So yeah, I am a Science Fiction (mainly Space Opera), Anime( mostly Mecha,and anime cyberpunk) I prefer TTRPGs that use only one type of dice(6 and 10D are my favorites),and attitude and skills(no level,or class based systems)
Not only is he correct, but his voice is extremely pleasing to listen to
Firelights and that other one seem really cool! Playing with a deck of cards really sidesteps my complaint with PBTA style games. I just don’t find d6 based games as fun as d20 style games but now you got be considering something different!
Thanks!!
If you want to try and get into an EXTREMELY roleplay heavy ttrpg but also very very fun combat that is just so narrative and practically anything you do in the game feels like a movie. Please try "The Wildsea" I have been having such a fricking blast with it, its not that complex to learn and it just makes you have a fun creative time by doing literally anything because you decide how you do things and how you use things with very loose discriptions
First time I'm hearing about it, I'll check it out!
I recommend Alien in cinematic mode, each player have their own agenda trying to do, put on top of that alien and people being suspicious of each other then rolelpay comes naturally. There are accusations, trying to get people on your side or go specific direction while trying to hide who you really are. It's super fun I finished first scenario and 1 person survived
My first table top rpg was dnd 3.5 but my group also did G.U.R.P.S. for marvel style one shots when someone wasn't available, soon I also was in games using the world of darkness settings, Vampire the Masquerade, and probably my favorite ttrpg of all time Werewolf the Apocalypse. So I have played a few non DND table tops and even made a few when I was board or didn't have a group. I am glad that a lot of the community has highlighted so many ones I haven't heard of because of the problems earlier created by Hasbro/ wizards. Great video
I still don't understand why Sword World 2.5 isn't translated officially to english or any other western language. For all the videos I've seen about the system, it looks really fun. It uses only 2d6 to resolve anything in the game.
This is extremely insightful, simple, and thought-provoking. I know I've wanted to try a few games outside of D&D given...recent events, and these reasons seem like good ones. I'll have to consider what I can do to create opportunities to play new games.
You earned yourself a new sub. :)
I think word started out as "5e is more simple than other editions of d&d" and then it got telephoned into "5e is as simple as you can expect for a TTRPG" because "Well d&d has been the most popular for ages, and so it's gotta be the best at something (heck, maybe even everything!) and people talk about it being so much simpler, so it's gotta be the best option for people getting into the hobby!" Which definitely is not the case. It's an amazing starter for many people but definitely *not* the simplest to start with, and by far one of the more difficult to prep for as a DM.
If you want genuinely simple, I highly recommend:
Dungeon World (for more high powered, heroic fantasy)
and
Cairn (for more perilous, low fantasy)
I've also heard great things about:
Shadowdark (as a hybrid of high power heroics and high peril)
Apocalypse World (for Fallout and Wasteland-ish campaigns)
And Index Card Rpg (for more general but customizable fantasy rpg mechanics)
I'm reading Apocalypse World on stream tonight! :D
I started with non-D&D games in the late 1980s. I first played D&D in the early 2000s and haven't been that impressed every-time I have tried it.
I find gamers who started with D&D are much less likely to even try other systems than the reverse. A strange phenomena.
Wonderful video with a great hopeful message.
Ha, I jumped up when I saw my Tunnel Goons hack flash by at 2:20.
Tunnel Goonies never say die!
well hi! thank you for your contribution 😆
see when I started to expand my TTRPG horizons, I found so many rules, mechanics, and games that I liked that I just decided to make my own
This is such an important video, thank you! I played over 200+ games of 5e and I did enjoy it, but as you say doing anything for that long can start to get stale. Since we finished our campaign, our group has done Monsterhearts, Thirsty Sword Lesbians, Monster of the Week, and I'm now running them through some Coriolis, and they're having a blast. Not only that but it's so fun challenging myself with new systems and ways to play.
three years for now at 5e as GM and i still love it. but... there is many more games that I want to explore. PF 2e of course, Mouse Guard and one of my fav - Ten Candles. Wish, i have more time =)
well my relashionship with dnd ends with my campain and im going to play shadow of the demon lord instead and shadow of the wierd wizard when its relise
SotDL is such an underrated system
I've been playing for more than a year and there's so much you can do both mechanically and thematically
@@Konpekikaminari GOD, yes it's easy to start and hard to master it got sooo mutch potential for both rp and min maxing
Are you planning on putting out more videos on the other games you look into? Unfortunatly I don't have the time, to commit to streams, but I'd love some more videos like the Ryuutama one. It was really inspiring and interesting!
Most of these games are absolutely great for new players or to try as a one shot. There’s a whole world of good ideas out there to get excited about
Look at you killing me softly with your youtube. This is exactly what happened to me. Liked & subbed.
I absolutely adore this video. Thank you for waxing so poetically on the hobby. ❄
I loved seeing Ryuutama in a YT video I have so much love for the game but it is basically unheard of.
I really enjoy your channel, and while I still love playing D&D I've always wanted to play other things but there's so much on offer that I don't know where to start, what to spend my time on, and I end up just sticking with D&D.
I try to see your streams, but it really is a format that is not useful to me. I understand it's a lot of work to edit videos, but I would really appreciate if you could you do some summary some of the ones you liked the most, and I'm sure many more would appreciate it too! :)
In any case, great job with the channel and I hope you continue to enjoy this hobby!
i have a small handful of long-form videos in the works for my favorite games I've read! I don't have the time to cover every game in that detail, but I'm working towards 1-minute shorts for quick summaries of all of the 99.
thanks so much for watching!
It is refreshing to see people talk about ACTUALLY DIFFERENT TTRPGS for once. Pf2e is good system, but not actually that different from 5e if you have ttrpg experience, even if pf evangelists try to say otherwise.
Have given up 5e and really enjoyed reconnecting with other TTRPGS, especially PF2E, Vampire and Cyberpunk.
You should try digging up some older games too. Many have newer editions but some of the older ones are pretty neat and offer fascinating perspectives on combat vs. role playing.
I've started playing other TTRPG's recently and I have found some that are so much fun like Pathfinder 2e, Starfinder, Masks, Power Rangers TTRPG, Carin, Zweihander, and one you should check out Siver is one called Fabula Ultima a "TTJRPG" if your a fan of JRPG's like Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest you'll love this one I hope you continue finding more TTRPG's cause some of your recommendations have been awesome.
The FATE rulebook was such an eye-opener for me. I had never read a rule set so self-aware regarding what it is the players are seated at the table to do. The approach to the game and to game-mastering is full of universal principles that can apply to any game, because that's the entire focus behind the rules write-up.
And it's all available 100% free on the FATE SRD, the only stuff you can just read freely on the net is the licensed products like Spirit of the Century or the Dresden Files versions.
I've started playing Dungeon Crawl Classics and i have really liked it. I even started trying to be the GM in VRchat to start a community there.
After the first couple people need to realise that basically ALL RPGs are the same. Some stats, some combat rules, but mostly it is chucking dice (or some otherway of generating a random number/event) to get a target number. Back in the day we played EVERYTHING that came along. I can grab a character sheet and create a character in pretty much any RPG on the fly now.
My favorite thing to do with 5e is to just add rules and subsystems from Cypher System to 5e over time until my players are trained to play another game with infinitely more setting and genre variability than 5e without even knowing they learned another game system.
Start with the Cypher System rules for handing out XP and assigning DCs to rolls and see how much it livens up 5e sessions. By the time one player starts complaining about how there aren't enough subclass combos in 5e for them to brainstorm their next character hand them a Cypher System book with the Focuses section opened.
My partner runs her sci-fi game in the Savage worlds system because it's super rules light and easy to quickly do things like combat or skill challeneges. Our group is much more interested in telling a 85 to 15 precent story telling vs dungeon crawling so it's suited us very well.
Such a lovely message!❤
Been playing Runequest for years…….so many stories to tell in this incredibly rich Bronze Age mythic fantasy setting. But I would hate to be limited just to Runequest, despite how much I love it. Cyberpunk Red, Dune, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, Elric/Stormbringer, Call of Cthulhu, all games with very different approaches and all provide very different experiences for players and GM’s alike. Honestly, only sticking to dnd, is a bit like deciding monopoly is the best board game ever, and refusing to ever try chess, backgammon, go, risk or scrabble. It makes no sense.
as someone who has played a lot of ttrpg. dnd beyond is be far the biggest reason why lot of new player flock to it.
Recently, my buddy has been looking into Pathfinder and I might try it up, especially for the aforementioned reasons of… External factors playing DND not so appealing.
So here’s hoping for the best.
We fully abandoned D&D for Castles & Crusades. It's a better version of D&D than 5e is. The entire C&C PHB, with GM content added, comes in at only 210 pages. It was the game that Gary stated he had wished D&D would have been instead of 3e when C&C originally came out. A simple to learn, simple to run system without the massive 5e bloat.
Yeah, keep exploring games, expand your horizons. The various ways of play really helps put things in context, along with just realizing how much 'junk' D&D has when it comes to useless mechanics that are either niche cases or just such a pain to deal with constantly people just ignore them.
Though I'd like to make a video to game designers "It doesn't need to be Powered by the Apocalypse". The problem with it is that it 'appears' flexible, but it isn't. And a lot of indie game designers immediately take their setting (or million dollar IP) and just slap PbtA on it and go 'look, its a game.' Or even worse, mangle the system by convoluting it with a ton of add on rules that go's against the whole idea of the system just to make it fit the setting, making the game both no longer simple, cohesive, or engaging.
PbtA requires a 'very' specific play style, heavy narrative, low combat, even if it 'appears' to have combat it's not, its just "narrative conflict style B". There's no real tactics in the system when it comes to combat, instead it plays out like a very anemic turn based RPG with a 50% ish chance to hit. You play PbtA less like 'you' are going on and adventure, you play PbtA like your cosplaying a character in a TV show. Which is great for when the setting revolves around that, Monster of the Week is Scoobie Doo simulator, MonsterHearts is late 00's edgy teen drama sim, Blades in the Dark is effectively if Dishonored had a crime thriller TV series (look, its a PbtA game but with dice pools, same statistics and math, along with revolving around playbooks. You even have a 'flashback' style system that makes it more 'TV show' esque).
These are good, heck, great games, but notice just the settings 'immediately' have a story.
Monster of the week, you deal with constant monster threats or uncovering mysteries.
Monster Hearts is literally pulp drama and messy romance, you already know 'exactly' someone is going to have a messy break up and then get back together.
Blades in the Dartk, criminal intrigue and Ocean's 11 styled break ins.
And they 'only' do those things, but they do them really well. Your really not going to get a sandbox campaign where the players wander their way into some sort of gang fight and have to kickbox their way out of it, maneuvering minis to get a better chance at headshotting someone, and then deal with the aftermath with the police using intrigue and mystery to figure out that there's a mole in the police station trying to get you in trouble.
That's why seeing 50 something games be released with Powered by the Apocalypse rules is annoying because it's like D&D players but on the other side, make rules that fit the setting, don't just use PbtA unless you know that it will fit its very ridged story structure. *Make different games*
Also doesn't help that there's a hint of... scummyness when people use it, especially big companies, as the designer of the system, Vincent Baker, screwed up when writing the licensing for his system, to where anyone can use it without crediting him except in like, the deepest margins in the book no one reads, and that he effectively is begging for money every kickstarter cause a ton of "sizable indie companies' just stole his system and he doesn't get a penny from any of it.
Wish more people would try the system I played growing up (Rifts and Palladium Fantasy RPG) loved those systems and workds
There are so many games and I play D&D in multiple groups with around 10+ players. It's great for people who have time and money to unlock and grab new games. Fill you're boots. But I am 100% ok with sticking to the game that is keeping my friend group together.
D&D Beyond I've found to be the biggest barrier because players end up relying on it to fill a sheet, and so not being able to automatically fill a sheet results in players not going out of their comfort zone. Even if a system barely has a character sheet, it's almost like asking them to learn programming, instead of just filling in the boxes.
I've had players borderline afraid of Microlite20 because it didn't have a sheet creator.
Whenever I teach new players for a one-shot, I always prepare them for character creation a week in advance for the inevitable questions. I need more ppl to know not every game is like this 😅
I’ve found pregenerated characters and a clear time commitment (2-3 hour one shot) has helped to overcome the hesitancy
Demiplane is the fix for that - by the original folks behind DnDBeyond and supporting lots of systems. The 5e Nexus (system container) is in closed beta, but if the Pathfinder Nexus is anything to go by, it will rock all the socks off (and then some). I’m hoping to put my post-apocalyptic fantasy setting on it as soon as I can, but the backbone isn’t ready yet (apparently).
@@jacobrodgers7743 I've kept my eye on Demiplane, I hope it does well!
RYUUTAMA MENTION
jokes aside, I appreciate you making this video, it was a relaxing reminder to try different games and see what you can personally enjoy about ttrpgs
The biggest draw for me to play 5e is the specific class mechanics they have...
Genie warlock in particular.
Still want to play my genie at some point...
Though, that still depends on me getting to actually play it...
Though, our year long hiatus has ended for my rl group and we're picking our BESM campaign back up.
Try a solo campaign with that Genie Warlock. Tell their story how you want to tell it. There are several GM Emulators out there for running a game solo.
That's really cool! Have you learned anything about which types of TRPGs you personally really enjoy? For example, I've learned that there is a sweet spot of crunchiness I enjoy in a game that is greater than Kids on Bikes and less than Pathfinder lol
That is almost EXACTLY the two i use as my complexity scale lol.
I quite enjoy when I can math out optimal choices and play with those odds, especially when there's no permanently right answer to every situation. Number-crunching is super fun for me, and being rewarded for my research and time committed is very satisfying :D
thanks for asking!
@@WintryRPG Ooooh! Players who sink their teeth in like that are amazing. I bet you’d be really fun to have at one of my tables ☺️
The more I play DnD the more I realise I just like rolling dice, specifically the simplicity of a d20. My "tweak dnd" mentality with my homebrew is basically a different game at this point, the only similarity being the dice and the separation of species and classes.
We play more than D&D, but continue to also play D&D. There are sone great ganes out there.
I thought this was an “I quit table top rpgs.”
Was looking to see what life is like when you do that because my current dnd campaign is killing me inside and likelihood of finding a good campaign is slim in my area
I've been spoiled, I don't think I could ever fully quit! I thought the same thing, as my local area has basically no D&D scene. It took scrounging around some Roll20 LFGs and an open mind to online play that really opened the doors to great campaigns. It's different, but still good =)
@@WintryRPG Yeah I tried playing online, not into it. Im quitting because my group has played 7 sessions in the past 35 weeks and are fine with that. Might pick it up again if/when I move to sydney and I'll be spoiled for choice.
your videos are the best wintry :) stay frosty hehe
It's precisely the fact that there are so many games out there with new ones being released every day that makes me not want to go beyond DND most of the time.
Totally reasonable! In a world where time is precious and personal investment even moreso, I'd never antagonize someone who sticks with what they're comfortable with.
Subscribed because I want to see your comments on Tarot-based RPG.
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In my case, talking specifically about D&D, I grew up with AD&D and 3.5, and then playtested the hell out of 5e back when it was called D&D Next. But idk... 5e wasn't and has never been my thing at all, but it's the go-to system in my closest group of friends so I'm very familiar with it and I just don't like it, hahaha.
I prefer B/X-like or Moldvay-like to run D&D. Lamentations of the Flame Princess has been my retro clone to go for years now, and more recently I started to borrow some things I might need with the help of Old School Essentials.
But my favorite genre and system has always been Call of Cthulhu, and more recently Delta Green. SO GOOD.
Two words for anyone born and/or raised in the 80s and 90. SKATE. WIZARDS.
What I learned from playing non DnD games:
Death awaits at every step, the world is very unforgiving. Being too confident, too greedy are the reason why you will die. It's easy to act brave but can you survive being brave?
I like trying new TTRPGs.
still hoping I get to play more Cypher system one day, but I'll be fine with pf2e and starfinder fow now xD
If it's not already. Put Savage Worlds on your list.
after about half a yer of playing 5e I've switched to pf2e that beside fixing most problems with 5e I had, it gives more and more content that improves the game further
now after another half a year of playing pf2e (when I also run one adventure for a first time) I am looking at the Lancer but I am worried that I would have huge difficulty finding group that speaks my native language
I would love to start a RuneQuest group but all the players I know are locked into 5e. I'm hoping 6e with it's price increases and even more restrictive rules will break them free of WOTC/HASBO's insatiable greed.
I feel like since D&D has such a stranglehold on the general genre of ttrpgs, it's hard to find a good group of people willing to try a new system. Like it's hard enough at times to find people to come together to play D&D so I feel it will be even harder to find people to play other systems.
I'm running into this as an outsider. I was away from the hobby for a long, long time. When I was into it back in the 90s, D&D was almost dead. Very few people played it. My game store of choice had two or three games going every night of the week, and none of them were D&D.
So, when I got back into the hobby in 2019, I figured I'd be able to pick right up where I left off. Instead, I found a wall of D&D/Pathfinder (which is just D&D with some extra buttons & dials). My local game store literally refused to carry anything else. The only games going on in the store were D&D or Pathfinder. Putting my name up on a bulletin board with "willing to run virtually anything but D&D" got me 3 responses in 3 years. And one of those responses wanted me to run D&D.
As was true in the days of AD&D 2nd Ed., the game's biggest enemy is the company that owns it. So, thanks to everything that went on at the beginning of the year, I'm starting to see some interest in other games. That local game store even started carrying a few other games.
I hope it's a sign of good things to come. And maybe I'll be able to assemble a group around a table again, willing to try different games.
Agreed.
My wife is an avid board gamer and has over fifty games. She said that someone who only plays D&D is no more a roleplayer than someone who only plays Monopoly is a boardgamer, rather than a Monopoly player.
D&D doesn't even have that good a rule system, and it's run by moneygrubbers who have turned it into 'roll playing".
TBH, playing other games makes my DnD games better. I still mainly play DnD, but I love playing a ton of systems.
Theres one called Iron and blood its a historical TTRPG you should look at it
thanks for the suggestion!
Answer is this: if ppl play dnd are they playing it for the SYSTEM or for the BRAND?
If for the system then with the dnd name removed it’s fine to play 5th edition. If for the brand rhen all they know dnd could make six different versions using various systems labeled dnd. But if that’s the case then it should be fine to try our various systems and rpgs it’s tied to righr? Unless the name dnd is that dominating to the person.
:] yippee
btw some of ur social links in bio are dead plz fix Wintry my friend you must become very big and strong
ooh, thanks for the heads up! i'll update :D
I cannot recommend pathfinder 2e enough to anyone who's looking to have a similar feeling experience to dnd but wants to distance themselves from wotc and hasbro.
I had my start in dnd 3.5 but relatively quickly switched to pathfinder 1e and have been playing that for close to 10 years now picking up other systems like Lancer BitD and PTU in the process, played dnd 5e for about 2 years aswell but never got too attracted due to it being, let's be honest, extremely barebones for what it pretends to offer, plus there's no way in hell I'll keep paying for a product I need to make work with my own time and effort, I should have the option to modify the system to fit my needs not be forced to do it, and abandoned when Tasha's came out.
Around September last year one of my groups decided to give pf2 a try it has been going amazingly well past the "honeymoon period" that new games tend to have, I still prefer the massive wealth of options and overall style of play pf1 offers but I can confidently say pf2 does everything dnd 5e sets out to do, better, and with no need for homebrewing your own balancing in, plus with the amout of informational content and (almost always) welcoming community it will genuinely be a more engaging and less time consuming process to learn how to play pf2 compared to turning 5e into something it isn't while trying to make sense of the non existent guidelines the DMG "provides".
It's even accessible for free online legally, the only real problem I've seen people have with pf2 is when they assume it's just a homebrewed version of 5e and jump in with a lot of assumption held over from the previous system.
A little addition I think it's important to make, at the time of this comment being wrote pf2 is due for its remaster, which is a process of tweaking the balance and writing of the system to both address some long standing issues with the game and diverge completely from wotc's OGL, the first part should come towards the end of the year and it will still be available for free online, so as a heads up (which Paizo themselves gave) newcomers might want to hold off purchasing the books for now.
Am an insane person so instead of picking up d&d I built my own system from scratch to fit the concept tv shows made me think d&d was
that's awesome!
I like D&D I will always buy the lore book. That being said I think moving to a PC table top is terrible idea. What sets it apart from video games is its not video game, that's why people like it your with people the tactile experience of paper and pen and being with friends. Make the books, the miniatures affordable. Next it's too bloated trying to be too many things for too many people. Now you can say well those rules or races are optional but once you put a rule or a race out there it's hard to get a table to agree to optional rules. "OK everyone this time it's Dwarves and elves only." "But a want a halfing" "well I had a warforge last time.". When you buy a new game system it says "Humans only." Then you cut off alot of that "But what about this in this book?"
Idk if I’ll play anything else. My group only wants to play D&D.
I want to leave it but in my country the rpg community is minuscule and all the newbies come to the hobby _for_ DnD
I totally get it! Not every game has the privilege of 50 years of advertising. My wish for TTRPGs moving forward is a more open mind to trying out other games after D&D, which is quite often the a very thin gateway.
Honestly a lot of it is not knowing where to start. I know there are tons and tons of systems out there, but I also know that a large number of them are bad, oversimplified, trying too hard to be avant garde, or just hyperspecific to their setting.
Ever since my group started trying out new systems since the whole OGL thing, I haven't found a system that I liked more than 5e, but I certainly found aspects of other systems that I would like to see in the main game that we play. Also has there ever been an interest in starting your own discord?
People just want to play a system with a big player base, most dont want to learn new systems all the time to find a group. Until another system gains critical mass people will be playing D&D
I'm a 30+ year D&D player/DM. I no longer play D&D because I've grown to hate the outdated, unbalanced, and non-sensical rule system. The 2024 D&D release will be the children's edition.
As a solo player of a heavily modded 3.5, I had to laugh when you claimed 5e is complex. Simpler ain't synonymous with better.
D&D was never my favorite.
As a german I play The dark Eye and I am also abig fan of the Trinity/Aberrant/Adventure! RPGs.
What got me irked on D&D 5e? They 'improved' the game by... removing stuff from it. Not just 'sensitive' content (which isn't going to change people from running 'sensitive' topics if that's what their group wants)- but I mean even the weapons and armor list is... sad.
That's what got me back into it... I don't really like 30 different polearms.... Especially when mechanically they're all the same with the slightest differences.
And I like the bounded accuracy. As the plusses and minuses became more absurd, I lost interest... And I'm a bookkeeper, so plusses and minuses are my life.
@@SerifSansSerif that's just it- those differences were crucial. There's a large difference between a sword with finesse and a sword with versatile.
The fact that you bought into the game when it *removed options* (not REQUIREMENTS) tells me that bookkeeping must suck.
D&D is great. WotC is not. I don't believe it's possible to fully separate the two.
Yea no.......tried pathfinder and then cyberpunk red.....dnd is much simpler.
Still trying to learn mutant and mastermind and cannot.
Why do you feel you had to stop playing D&D to do these things?
It's a perspective thing! Sometimes the mountain blocks the trees. Stepping away from D&D put me in a mindset of learning all over again.
there's only so much time to spare
@@dwdillydally You're telling me that this individual was spending every single minute of spare time ONLY playing D&D? That is an absurd statement.
I want to leave it but in my country the rpg community is minuscule and all the newbies wants _it_