Mapping Dharma: Geography of Hinduism | Satya Samvad EP 11
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- In the eleventh episode of Satya Samvad, Dr. Mrittunjoy Guha Majumdar talks to Dr. Jijith Nadumuri Ravi, a former ISRO scientist who founded Dharma Digital - a platform using VR and AR to promote Sanatana Dharma, and who is currently exploring the fascinating world of geo-ethnography of the Vedas and Itihasa-Purana, from the geography of Ayodhya and Dwarka to the chronological correlation of eminent figures such as Bhishma's father Maharaja Shantanu and Sri Ram. In this episode, we discuss the historical dating of the Mahabharat War, the identification of River Saraswati, definition of the measuring length of Yojanas, Jijith's determination of Ramayana's Laṅkā not being current-day Sri Lanka but being located on the Narmadā river and the conjecture that Śikhaṇḍī was a descendant of Ambā, Studying the geo-ethnography of Hindu texts and Dharmic traditions, we look forward to dismantle the premise of the smear campaign undertaken by anti-Hindu forces that deny the veracity and significance of our civilizational foundations, and hope to establish a sense of rootedness and decolonization based on our ethos and extant heritage.
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Absolutely fascinating. I recently visited India,specifically Dwaraka, Rann..and Dholavira, so I can picture the scenario pointed out by this astute guest and wonderful host.
We always find Great people connected on this platform. Thanks for your efforts.
Good talk! So much to know that our missionary school education and Lutyens media deprived us!
Pleased to see the collaboration. I read all four books and I think they will stand the test of time as I could not find any mercy shown by him to Hindu side just because he happens to be a Dharmic. Hard to ignore for anyone from any political or ideological orientation. I am sure both Pseudo-Hindus and Anti-Hindus will be terrified of level of rigor and depth it goes into. Respect!!
The truth can be denied but truth always rises!!!!
It is interesting.. mindset of anti-Hindu lobby has to be defeated. I don't agree with some of the things Jijithji said but the motivation is Dharmic... another good episode of satya samvad by Mrityunjayji
Please talk about the aesthetics, dress culture and its relation to psychological map.
facts
🙏🪔
जो सोरोस के चमचे श्री राम और वेदो का सत्य को झूठ बोलते है उन्हें दिखाओ ये
This is ridiculous.
The Ramayana of Valmiki doesnt mention Bhadrachala.
Agstyashrama was close to Panchavati in Maharashtra and Kishkindha was in Hampi.
The north-western bias is due to the loss of multiple shakhas of the veda whic gubes the illusion of bias.
As for the location of Kishkindha and Ramas trail, ive written in the reply to this comment.
1) Question: Can the vAnaras living in Himalyas and kailAsh reach kishkindha in ten days?"
Answer: These were not ordinary monkeys. This is ascertained by the Valmiki Ramayana itself.
Kishkindha Parva, ch 38: "Vanaras full of valour, of ferocious aspect, familiar with the woods and inaccessible forests, monkeys that are born of the Devas and Gandharvas, able to change their shape at will, are on their way followed by their troops, O Rama.
“These vanaras are proceeding here surrounded by hundreds and thousands, by millions and tens of millions; these vanaras and their chiefs, who are as valiant as Mahendra and resemble mountains in stature, are coming together from the Meru and Vindhya ranges. They will unite with you to fight the demon Ravana and, laying him low on the battlefield, will restore Sita to you."
Furthermore, Valmiki Ramayana, Kishkindha Kanda, Chapter 40 clarifies: "Here, gathered together, are the foremost of monkeys inhabiting my dominions, who are equal to Mahendra and are able to transport themselves anywhere at will."
They are clear superhuman. Besides even otherwise, vanaras came from beyond Meru also which is much further north of Himalayas according to itihasa purana. Even if we consider your view point and assume they traveled at a humane pace it would take much longer than 10 days even to reach Madhya pradesh.
Furthermore, the order to respond within 10 days was given only to the lazy monkeys, Valmiki Ramayana, Kish kanda, Ch 37:
"Bring those leaders of monkeys also, who are lazy or given over to pleasure. If they have not responded to my appeal in ten days, they will suffer the death penalty for infringing the royal command"
2) Objection: SugrIva was asking the South-searching vAnara batches to search for Sita in vindhya Hills, on the banks of narmada, Godavari, krishNavENi, etc. and search in vidarbha (around nAgpur) etc.
Answer: This part was confusing to me also at first, however, further reading clarifies. What is meant here is not necessarily south of Kishkindha but rather the southern regions, generally taken as the southern region of Bharata. The translation also seems a bit off. They don't say "south bound" rather "southern regions" is used in other translations.
If we take kishkindha as the Centre it makes not sense.
V.Ramayana, Kishkindha Kanda, Chapter 40: "O Foremost of Leaders, who art accompanied by monkeys as bright as the sun and moon, you are able to turn time and place to advantage and art skilled in conducting thine affairs! Taking with you hundreds and thousands of apes, explore the eastern region with its forests, woods and mountains, in search of Sita, the Princess of Videha and also Ravana’s stronghold. Search among the mountain fastnesses, the forests and rivers for Rama’s beloved consort, the daughter-in-law of King Dasaratha; search by the beautiful Bhagirathi, the Sarayu, the Kaushiki and the Kalindi, the enchanting Yamuna and the great hills bordering the Sarasvati, the Sindhu and the Shona of ruby waters, the Mahi and Kalamahi with their splendid wooded hills."
If we take Mirzapur or anywhere that you have speculated as kishkindha it makes no sense. How can Ganga, Yamuna and Sindhu lie east of these spots?
Valmiki Ramayana, Kishkindha Kanda, Chapter 41:
"You will behold the Vindhya ranges, possessing a hundred peaks covered with trees and shrubs of every kind, and the enchanting river, Narmada, frequented by mighty serpents, and the wide and charming stream, Godavari, with its dark reeds, and the captivating Krishnaveni; the regions of Mekhalas and Utkala and the city of Dasharna also; Abravanti and Avanti, Vidarbhas and Nishtikas and the charming Mahishakas. You will see too, the Matsyas, Kalingas and Kaushikas, where you should search for the princess and the Dandaka Forest with its mountains, rivers and caverns and the Godavari, also examine the districts of Andhras, Paundras, the Cholas, Pandyas and Keralas. Then repair to the Ayomukha Mountain, rich in ore, with its marvellous peaks and flowering woodlands; that mountain, possessing lovely forests of sandalwood, should be carefully searched by you."
Thereafter you will behold that divine river of pure waters, the Kaveri, rendered gay by troups of Apsaras. On the summit of the mighty Mountain Malaya, bright as the sun, you will behold Agastya, the foremost of Rishis. By the permission of that high-souled one, you will cross over the great river, Tamrapami, abounding in crocodiles. Ravishing forests of sandalwood cover the islands of these waters flowing to the sea, which resemble a youthful bride going to meet her lover.
“Proceeding further, O Monkeys, you will see the golden gates set with pearls of the city of the Pandyas; then in order to ensure the success of your enterprise, you will approach the sea and ascertain your ability for crossing it. In the centre of the ocean, Agastya has set that foremost of mountains, Mahendra, its slopes covered with trees. Entirely made of gold it extends deep down into the waters; the abode of Gods, Rishis, Yakshas and Apsaras, thronged by innumerable Siddhas and Caranas and of surpassing loveliness, it is visited by the thousand-eyed God at each new moon......"
This entire region is described as the south. This region was assigned to angada, Hanuman and others(in later parts only the southern expedition is elaborated. Northern, Easter and western expeditions aren't given importance). If we take any of the places that you mentioned to be kishkindha then the vanaras should have first gone towards vindhya, them narmada, then Godavari, so on and then met Agastya atop Malaya mountain in Southern India. But what we see is the complete opposite,
Valmiki Ramayana, Kishkindha Kanda, Chapter 45(Named as "The departure of the Vanaras"):
"...Angada and others, in company with that Vanara born of Pavana, marched towards the southern region inhabited by Agastya..."
The first place mentioned is the region inhabited by Agastya. This is much further away from the vindhyas or the Narmada. If Kishkindha was somewhere north of the vindhya in MP then the first thing they would behold would be vindhya and narmada, not Malaya, the residence of Agastya.
The monkeys after they reached the south later again went north to search the vindhyas
So kishkindha in hampi is a more suitable explanation. They were just told to search the entire southern region.
You also speak of Mahendra hills.
The mountain in question is clearly in Southern India as mentioned in the above passage itself(I.e., VK,KK, Ch 41).
The Mahendra in question is NOT the kula parvata between orissa and Andhra pradesh, but rather located in modern day Tamil Nadu.
This will be further clarified as you read further.
3) Claim: Some island in the Mirzapur's Ganga should be the Lanka of rAvaNA.
Among all the claims you have made, this is by far the most hilarious one. Valmiki Ramayana clearly mentions that Ravana crossed the ocean in order to reach Lanka. You don't have to cross any ocean to reach any place in in mirzapur.
Valmiki Ramayana, Aranya Kanda, Chapter 54:"......Coursing through the air, he left behind forest, rivers, mountains and lakes and speeding on like an arrow shot from, a bow he passed over that sanctuary of whales and crocodiles, the indestructible abode of Varuna, the refuge of rivers, the ocean......"
VR, KK, ch 64: ".....Arriving at the northern side of the southern sea...."
VR, KK, ch 65: “I can leap a hundred Yojanas!” and Gavaksha said:-“I can leap two hundred!” Then the monkey Sharabha said to his companions:-“I am able to leap three hundred yojanas, O Monkeys!” thereafter Rishabha said, “I can undoubtedly cross over four hundred yojanas!” and the mighty Gandhamadana said “I can leap five hundred yojanas!” In his turn the monkey, Mainda, said “And I, six hundred yojanas” and the illustrious Dvivida “Without difficulty I can leap over seven hundred yojanas!” Then Sushena, full of energy, the best of monkeys said, “I declare that I can leap eight hundred yojanas!”
......
Thereat Jambavan answered that excellent monkey and said: “O Foremost of Monkeys, your power of motion is well known, but art you able to cross over eight hundred yojanas?""
This shows even 800 Yojanas was not sufficient to reach Lanka.
What exact unit yojana represents in not known, but certainly it is not a small unit. Generally based on mathematical manuscripts of India if we convert it it translates to around 14 to 15 Kilometers. Do the math yourself.
4) Question: "The native place of Jambavantha, (Jambavan), an important General of Sugriva, after Hanuman, is said to be in Jamthun जामथुन జాంథున్ Village in Ratlam District of Madhya Pradesh. If Kishkindha is near Ballari , Karnataka, how can Jambavan belonging to Madhya Pradesh, be a Vanara (vanachara or forest dweller) of Karnataka? This gives us one clue that Kishkindha is in North MP / Chattisgadh or Southern most border of U.P. Definitely not in Karnataka or Maharashtra or Telangana State."
Honestly I don't understand this question at all. Jambavan's native place has nothing to do with the location of Kishkindha. No one ever claimed that Jambavan was a native of Kishkindha because he wasn't. This has nothing to do with the debate in question.
5) Doubts relating to Sampati, brother of Jayayu:
(a) Claim-1: Sampati is a native of Madhya Pradesh.
Answer: Not true. At the time of Ramayana Sampati resided on the vindhya Hills. This does not mean that was his native place. I could not ascertain any passage that spoke of Sampati's native place in Valmiki Ramayana.
(b) Claim-2: Sampati and Jatayu weren't birds, they were tribals.
Answer: Please go through Chapter 58 through 63 of Valmiki Ramayana's Kishkindha Kanda. It is clear that he was a bird of extraordinary abilities.
Before they met sampathi at vindhya, the vanaras got lost in the range and entered a magical cave which was a part of the vindhya range. Later they exited and beheld the vindhya range once more. Please go through chapters 50 through 55 of Valmiki ramayana's Kishkindha Kanda.
(b) You state "Assuming that SampAti was a human -forest-dweller and not a kite, it is difficult to expect him to lie down with broken wings on the banks of ocean, and encourage the South bound Vanaras to cross the ocean."
First you assume that sampati is a forest dwelling human, the very next sentence you talk about his broken wings. You are contradicting yourself in the same statement.
Sampati was clearly a legendary bird creature with wings. He even says he had a competition as to who can fly higher with his brother and burnt hus wings as he went too close to the sun.
Please go through the chapters I have previously pointed out in part (b).
6) This claim you made early on but I chose to address it later, and for a good reason
Claim: "There is no evidence in Valmiki Ramayana of SRL Sita-Rama-Lakshmana crossing the Godavari River using some country boats, or by swimming, or through some other means."
By far one of the most absurd claims. Clearly shows how ill read you are.
Valmiki Ramayana, Yuddha Kanda, Chapter 129:
"Meantime Rama returned, having slain the deer in the forest and, as he did so, he beheld the vulture so beloved of his sire, dead, at which he suffered extreme distress. Thereafter Raghava with Lakshmana set out in search of Vaidehi and they crossed the Godavari River with its flowering woodlands.
“In the great forest, the two princes met a titan, named Kabandha, counselled by whom that true hero repaired to the Mountain Rishyamuka in order to confer with Sugriva and, even before they met, they were firm friends."
I recommend you read this entire chapter.
Final conclusive evidence from Valmiki Ramayana itself:
VK, Yudha Kanda, Ch 126- I suggest you go through the entire chapter:
Under Rama’s command, that aerial chariot harnessed to swans flew through the air with a great noise, and Rama, the delight of the Raghus, letting fall his glance on every side, said to the Princess of Mithila, Sita, whose face resembled the moon:-
“See how Lanka has been constructed by Vishvakarma on the summit of the Trikuta Mountain, which resembles the peak of Mount Kailasha. Behold the battlefield covered with a mire of flesh and blood; there, O Sita, a great carnage of monkeys and titans took place. There lies the ferocious King of the Titans, Ravana, who, despite the boons he had received, was slain by me on thine account, O Large-eyed Lady.
“Here Kumbhakarna was struck down as also another ranger of the night; Prahasta and Dhumraksha perished here under the blows of the monkey, Hanuman. Vidyunmalin was put to death at this spot by the great-souled Sushena, and in another, Lakshmana overcame Indrajita, the son of Ravana. Angada struck down the Titans named Vikata and Virupaksha, hideous to look upon, as also Mahaparshva and Mahodara. Akampana succumbed, as also other valiant warriors, Trishiras, Atikaya, Devantaka and Narantaka, Yuddhonmatta and Matta, both great heroes, Nikumbha and Kumbha, the two sons of Kumbhakama, who were full of courage; Vajradamshtra, Damshtra and innumerable other titans perished here and the invincible Maharaksha whom I slew in combat; and Akampana was slain and the powerful Shonitaksha whilst Yupaksha and Prajangha also succumbed in the great struggle. Vidyujjihva, a titan of fearful aspect fell there and Yajnashatru died also; the mighty Suptaghna too, as also Suryashatru, were slain with Brahma-shatru, who had no equal, and here Mandodari’s consort, for whom she wept surrounded by her companions to the number of a thousand or more.
“Here is the place where the ocean was traversed, O Lady of Lovely Looks, and, having passed over the sea, there is the spot where the night was spent. There the bridge that I had thrown over the ocean of salty waves on thine account, O Large-eyed Lady, that causeway, difficult of construction, was built by Nala. Behold the ocean, 0 Vaidehi, that indestructible abode of Varuna’s that seems without bourne, whose thundering waters abound in conch shells and pearls. O Maithili, behold that golden mountain, which, cleaving the waves, rose out of the bosom of the deep in order to allow Hanuman to rest. And here, our headquarters were established; here, formerly the Lord Mahadeva granted me a boon and there is the sacred and purifying spot known as Setubandha where even the greatest sins are washed away. Here Vibishana, King of the Titans, first came to me. Now we have reached Kishkindha with its beautiful woods, it is Sugriva’s capital where I slew Bali.”
Then Sita, seeing the Qty of Kishkindha of which Bali was formerly the support, said to Rama in gentle, loving and wistful tones:-
“I desire to enter your royal capital, Ayodhya, O Prince, with the beloved consorts of Sugriva, Tara at their head, as also the wives of the other leaders of the monkeys!”
Thus spoke Vaidehi and Raghava answered, ‘So be it!’, thereafter reaching the heights of Kishkindha, he caused the aerial chariot to halt and said to Sugriva:-
“O Lion among Monkeys, command all the Plavamgamas, accompanied by their wives, to come to Ayodhya with Sita and myself. Let all come, 0 King, and make haste to depart, O Sugriva!”
Hearing Rama’s command, he whose energy was immeasurable, Sugriva, the illustrious monarch of the monkeys, attended by his ministers entered the inner apartments and, seeing Tara, said to her:-
“O Dear One, at the command of Raghava, who wishes to gratify Vaidehi, do you speedily assemble the consorts of the magnanimous monkeys so that they may leave for Ayodhya to visit the wives of King Dasaratha.”
Hearing Sugriva’s words, Tara, of beautiful limbs, gathered all the female monkeys together and said to them:-
“Sugriva commands us to leave for Ayodhya; do me the favour of accompanying me and witness the entry of Rama in the midst of the people from town and country and the splendour of the wives of Dasaratha.”
Thus commanded by Tara, the female monkeys, having first adorned themselves and circumambulated her, ascended the car, anxious to behold Sita, and that aerial chariot at once rose into the air with them.
Then Raghava, gazing down on all sides, having reached the vicinity of Rishyamuka, once more addressed Vaidehi, saying:-
“O Sita, here is a great mountain resembling a cloud rent by lightning, abounding in gold and other metals. It is here that I met that Indra among Monkeys, Sugriva, and entered into an agreement with him to slay Bah. Here is the Pampa Lake with its marvellous fields of blue lotuses and here separated from you, out of the depth of mine affliction, I wept 1 It was on its banks that beheld the virtuous Shabari.
“Here I slew Kabandha, whose arms extended for four miles! O Sita, in Janasthana, I came upon that magnificent tree, the Ashvatta, near which Jatayu, the renowned and valiant Monarch of Birds perished under Ravana’s blows on thine account, O Lovely One. And there is our hermitage, O Lady of Brilliant Complexion, where our enchanting leafy hut may be seen. It is there that you were borne away by force by the King of the Titans.
“There is the ravishing Godavari of transparent waters and there, the retreat of Agastya can be seen, that is covered with palms, as also Sharabhanga’s hermitage where the God of a Thousand Eyes, the Destroyer of Cities, entered in secret. O Goddess of slender waist, behold the ascetics with Atri at their head, the equal of Surya and Vaishnava; in that place the Giant Viradha fell under my blows and there, O Sita, you didst visit the virtuous Sage. See, O Lady of beautiful form, the King of Mountains, Cittrakuta, appears; it is there that the son of Kaikeya came to crave my forgiveness. Here is the enchanting Yamuna with its ravishing woods and here the retreat of Bharadvaja looms into view, O Maithili. Now we are in sight of the Ganges, that three-branched sacred river. There is the City of Shringavera where my friend, Guha, dwells, and there, the River Sarayu with rows of stone pillars on its banks commemorating the Kings of the House of Ikshvaku! Behold there the royal abode of my Sire! O Vaidehi, bow down to Ayodhya, we have returned!”
During this time the monkeys and the titans were leaping about in delight on seeing that city and, with the palaces with which it abounded, its wide spaces and the elephants and horses that filled it, Ayodhya appeared to the monkeys and titans to resemble Amaravati, the city of the mighty Indra."
I'll give you a gist, in this chapter Rama is reiterating the path they have traversed as they travel in Pushpaka vimana but in reverse order. That is from Lanka to Ayodhya.
The important places mentioned are in the order as follows:
A) LANKA
B) SETUBANDHA(NALA SETU)
C) KISHKINDHA
D) RISHYMUKHA
E) PAMPA SAROVARA
F) SHABARI ASHRAMA
G) JANASTHANA
H) RIVER GODAVARI and AGASTYASHRAMA
I) ATRI ASHRAMA
J) CHITRAKOOTA
K) RIVER YAMUNA
L) RIVER SARAYU
M) AYODHYA