Germany is the only country in the world where you can't advertise group 3 oils, even gtl based oils as sintetic. On a group 3 or 3+ based oil you will always see on the label "HC synthese"
Future readers, #1 any full synthetic, #2 look at your owners manual if you have a warranty, see whats allowed, #3 use an oil viscosity chart and pick based on your temperature
It wasn't in court, but in industry arbitration and the final decision was Exxon / Mobil agreeing that the cheaper method Shell developed to make group III oil did meet the requirements of being a synthetic oil. What had started the whole thing was, Castrol in America was previously buying synthetic oil from Mobil, but in 1999 started buying their synthetic oil from Shell, at a lower price. Mobil 1 oil was originally a hydrocracked group III oil in the 1970's, but later Shell developed a cheaper method of hydrocracking group III oil. Besides selling it for less, Shell licensed the process in Canada and Korea. In 2007 and 2008 Mobil filed for patents on mixing different base stock synthetic motor oils, "for the improvement of motor oils." In the 1970's Mobil 1 was first only available as a 5W20 oil. In 1999 Mobil challenged Shell's lower cost method of making group III oil. After demonstrating the properties of the oil did meet the requirements of a synthetic oil. Mobil agreed it was alright to market it as a synthetic oil.
This court case totally captured my interest, because I was a Mobile 1 user at the time and thought the court case would provide clarity. (Still have the vehicle that used Mobile 1 with the engine mechanically untouched.) I was astonished with the court’s decision on that case. Have dealt with the court’s understanding of science and technology for many years. In a very broad (general) view, Court decisions seem to be based more on the “argument” and not necessarily on bare facts.
It's certainly interesting, and probably something which plague courts. You're basically asking someone that isn't familiar with the technology to make a ruling.
That's almost always the case with politics. Gun laws by people that have no knowledge of them, this law about synthetics, and then there's the laws that go through because a big company supporting it has a good lawyer, like the new patented 1234yf refridgerant with lower global warming factor than the old r-134a stuff that just had patents expire a few years prior.. hmm. I'm all for creating less chemical junk for future is to deal with, but it's due convenient for DuPont. They would rather keep propane or isobutane illegal in the AC system despite it being sold over the counter for they task and already plumbed in to many vehicle's engines and camp vehicles without excessive flammability issues.
AMSOIL was founded on innovation. Company founder Al Amatuzio was commercially selling synthetic oil by 1968. Mobil 1 was not the first to have synthetic motor oil.
I'm super interested in this, get some insights from 'bob is the oil guy' forum and my oil supplier. My oil supplier said that because recycled oil is stronger, the weaker molecules have fallen apart the first time in the engine, you're allowed to call it synthetic oil, it stays in grade these days, which I think is both better base oil and better VI improvers. From Bob is the oil guy, people in America were putting Shell Rotella synthetic diesel oil in their bikes for it's high zinc content, but we don't get it here, in Austrlai, or we don't get it as full syn for low price like in US.
Before buying, just see the German data sheets. In Germany, they are by law not allowed to call Hydrocracks synthetic. If it says synthetic there, it IS a syntethic
@@LubricationExplained German law does not. There were just some court cases where the court decided that for an (automotive) oil, the average customer thinks of "full synthetic" as something better and thus III should not be marketed as such. Keep in mind that in Germany court decisions are single cases and cannot be applied in general like in the USA for example. So in theory other companies can still market as they wish until someone sues them. For example Motul - despite being one of the companies actually sued over this - still advertises as "full synthetic" on their German website - maybe I should bring this up to the other company so they can sue Motul again... And besides that, this is with an average customer in mind so it probably is not applicable in general to oils for example in the industrial environment.
Mr. Amatuzio developed synthetic oil for combustion engines in the late 60s early 70s. It took 30 years for the big boys to catch up the what Amsoil was doing for the industry. Synthetics had been around since WWll for our fighter jets and bombers. So do you really know what's in your oil? Amsoil is the very 1st of many 1sts. They were 1st awarded the API certification for synthetic oil and over 20 more 1sts in the industry. Don't take my word for this information. Check it out for your selves. So just a little synthetic oil in the bottle according to the courts, means you have a quart of oil that is synthetic. Hmm interesting.
I remember this case. Yes muddied the waters indeed. There are some oil manufacturers that will say what they are using in as a base oil in their oils (Redline, Driven, Maxima, Pennzoil, Ravenol, etc) One thing though it is a balance of good base oils and additives and how it will perform in real world service thatmakes a great oil. JMHO
Loving your vids mate!! As mentioned in another thread I’m an NDT engineer and during the corrosion analysis module of my degree we scratched the surface of lubricants .. Anyway that’s that …. So thinking back to the ‘Motor oil’ wars of the 80’s-90’s where you had Mobil 1, Castrol GTX etc … Where did ‘Duckhams Hypergrade’ fit in? Lol … At the time it came across as if it was liquid GOLD and would turn your car into a high performing Audi Quatro rally car!!! Lol … As you say ‘Marketing’ has a massive sway on it all, I mean sticking ‘Hypergrade’ on the end makes it sound like seriously good stuff doesn’t it lol …
@@LubricationExplained Yes. The most disappointeted thing is Exxon also has followed, even still they blended fully/partially PAO, but they gave up offering consumers such “Conventional Synthetic“. I think this judge changed Exxon's advertising strategy and pride of original formulation on consumer's market; on the opposite side Castrol won those, and they sfhifted to sell Mobil1 as some "Synthetic" like Castrol. I know the Gr.3 Synthetic has enough performance for normal use. But, it made us the most victims, who want PAO Synthetic product.
@@lonniebeal6032but you can’t get it with economies of scale pricing anymore. If you want pure synthetic oil without VII, you have to go with a niche brand like redline, which is triple the price of mass market group III full synthetics. If a companies as large as Mobil were still selling pure PAO based oils at scale, it would be more expensive than group iii oils, but not 3x - and you could get it anywhere anytime. Castrol robbed us of getting pure/true synthetic oils at lower prices.
@@lonniebeal6032yeah but now PAO/ester only oils are more than double the price, because they’re niche products and can’t be produced at scale. If large companies like Mobil 1 still produced pure PAO oils, they would be more expensive, much cheaper than pure synthetics like RedLine. Group III’s would still exist. They’d probably call them semi synthetic or something. But consumers lost out on mass market pure PAO oils with no VII.
I like the story from you, easy and good point . The performance is the key we need to know, not the material. Good point. Sorry about the bad English.
I'm thankful for the group III oils, it's much cheaper than group IV and group III is far superior to group II, while being just a hair higher in price than II. That being said, Mobile was in the right. Mobile was a group IV at the time, to compete with the new group III pricing, they became a group III. I wish oil manufacturers were required to state on the bottle if it's group III or group IV.
Synthetics are a frustrating topic, as the average consumer/purchaser assumes they are all the same and therefore buys the cheapest. Trying to get people to understand that they are not the same and cheaper does not equal savings, can fall on deaf ears.
Nice to see you here Ev :) Yup! I think a lot of it stems from the fact that most lubricant brands are also fuel brands. If most of your interaction with a brand is fuel then you become accustomed to buying commodity products from them - given pretty much all fuels are interchangeable.
Dear Mr. Le, I will write to your e-mail in following days to discuss a possible video conference (for use on youtube) about lubes. We have the experience talking about PAO, PAG, mineral, synthetic, silicone, bentonite and etc etc.
Now, some engine oil even dare to lie. They have 100% synthetic or full synthetic in their bottle, but mentioned more than 75% group 2 oil ini msds. that is older than group 3. But the good thing is, it is more suitable for vehicle with more than 100K km. Better than "mineral" oil from grup 3.
@@stevanradin9452 example, motul 8100 X-CESS GEN2 5W40 hydrotreated 50 to 100%, hydrotreated 10 to 25%, defined as High performance 100% Synthetic lubricant
Mobil makes many PAO and esters. Mobil 1 uses them in its blends. Amsoil just blends but I highly doubt they have done the research like Mobil oil does.
Good question - and not one that I can really answer because there are 1000 different versions of Mobil 1 and Super 3000. As a general comment - you're more likely to find PAO in the Mobil 1's and I'd make an educated guess that the Super 3000's are Group III's. Some of the Mobil 1's are also a mix of mPAO and Group III. I've covered this in another video, but there's two different kinds of PAO - conventional and metallocene. Metallocene has a superior performance profile, so you can mix it with Group III and get the equivalent performance of a conventional PAO.
@@LubricationExplained I think oil companies should be made to state what their base formulas are. They seem to put full synthetic on everything these days when it's just a a tricked up mineral.
Believe it or not, don't even have a car! Used to have a company car but lost access to that when I resigned. The used car market is currently insane and I can't justify spending that much money at the moment.
@@LubricationExplained what off the shelf 0w20 oil would you use if you had a car/truck? no amsoils, just regular autoparts store shelf oils. also do you have a video about manufacturer recommended viscosities and are they absolute for mechanical oil pumps vs electronic?
@@hostilityy I know this is old, but for future readers, extensive testing by Projectfarms, if I was forced to use 0w20 in the summer, it would be Redline, Amsoil, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum or Triax in that order during the summer months, during the winter or under 30c, any group III.
There are many syn oils on the market, from 20$ for right to 60$ for a standard 4 liter pack, all api sp ilsac gp6 certified. Can those certifications be trusted? What if a manufacturer in Malaysia (look up 4S Professional, Mizu) gets certified but only the sample was actually sp gf6, does api/ilsac actually randomly test the products on market to verify? I don't know how that process works so I'll stick to big boys like Shell Mobil Valvo etc so not so much a 20$ oil that claims sp. I've emailed these manufacturers for pds but no reply came
Maybe. Like in Brazil, they test randomly all around the country buying oils at commercial stores. Gov agency called ANP does that. Maybe most countries does that.
Yeah, you would have to be really bold to do something like that, because competitors also buy random batches for testing too. If you got caught, that's pretty much the death of a brand.
Yeah I hate that that's why I don't run Castrol even mobil has went to using group 3 Hydro cracked oils to be competitive in the marketplace as far as I know the only oil that is a true 100% synthetic from mobil 1 is their extended performance. That's why I take all the guessing out of it and buy Amsoil Signature Series 100% true Pao synthetic
Great video....And remember that you get what you pay for with motor oil if you're buying $3 a quart Sam's Choice synthetic it's not going to have a good base stock or very expensive additives in it you're getting $3 worth of synthetic oil! The base stocks are the most important part the additive package just compliments the base oil So when you buy a good 100% synthetic oil like Amsoil you're getting a really good true synthetic base oil and the best most expensive additives on the market then you end up with a very pure over engineered oil and gear heads like me that's what we want
@@mareksumguy1887 the signature series is definitely but the oem is just really refined group 3 like other oil companies still good oil no doubt but the signature series is the best
I should have been more specific - "synthetic fortified" is my favourite marketing term because it sounds so ridiculous. It is definitely not my favourite base oil technology.
Low standard, they can not compare the germany standard document and must label on the production is Euro car, European quality cause any lubricant brand lower than euro car standard certificate.
Fast forward to today’s reality….anything defined as >120 VI with 90% saturates can be classified as Group III, however the additive companies are the ones who will test the base stock to verify it meets their minimum performance standards. But their is a HUGE difference between Mobil 1 and let’s say “Bobs bargain brand full synthetic”. Exxon tries to win the race…some folks just want a car/driver that qualifies for the cheapest cost to maximize profits.
I've been buying AmsOil Signature for over a decade in my fleet of old junk. It has offered extremely good performance, so I can't complain about function. But, the more I look into it, the more I see it isn't really a full synthetic oil. Do you have any knowledge on what the oil is, and if it matters?
Mobil 1 Extended Performance would do as well as Amsoil Signature. Save yourself a lot of money and stop thinking about this so much. It work’s excellent in the cold winters. Mobil 1 makes so many different PAO and ester oils. Mobil is so far ahead of the others.
As a law student, this was right up my alley :D Courts have to decide cases based on methodology and criteria set out in law. The process can be a bit mechanical- and sometimes this yields to surprising outcomes...
And in a few cases the judge shepherding the show is just in way beyond their level of understanding and biases the outcome through simple ignorance of the technical matter and inability to admit it. (And I suppose in rare cases there are judges with ...alternate motives.) I mean there was a patent judge who interpreted the Wright brothers simple wing warping mechanism to cover the entire concept of roll control. This is like patenting the rack and pinion steering mechanism and being granted full rights over the very concept of steering a car. With the exception of Glen Curtis, who essentially ignored the claim while spending years in court with the Wright's, the roll control ruling basically stopped all aircraft development in the USA from the Wrights through the end of WW1 when congress finally had to step in. (The Wrights never made any significant inovation after getting their patents, as their main motive was not flying its self but just to own the patents. They were a sort of early patent troll. ) This same judge had a few years earlier also granted Ford some rather dubious broad patent claims regarding the automobile. Most airplane advances during this period were made in France with a bit in Germany and Britain.
@@mytech6779 I've not read into the specifics of those cases, but sure sounds like the judge took a very broad reading of the patent laws then in force. With technical questions in emerging fields there's a second factor at play - expert witnesses. It might be hard to find unbiased witnesses whose views you are allowed to legally consider in assessing the proper scope of the protection, if a big portion of would be experts are connected to the applicant.
Your whole premise is simply wrong. There never was a court case nor did any 'judge/jury' rule about this in legal terms. What really happened was, that the "National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus" was ok with what Castrol claimed. This has nothing to do with the "real" judicial system. To quote Wikipedia: "Better Business Bureau (BBB) is a private, 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization [...] Better Business Bureau is not affiliated with any governmental agency. Businesses that affiliate with BBB and adhere to its standards do so through industry self-regulation."
Looking for more structured lubrication courses? Join LE Pro for $30AUD per month (that's about 20USD). lubrication.expert/product/le-pro/
Germany is the only country in the world where you can't advertise group 3 oils, even gtl based oils as sintetic. On a group 3 or 3+ based oil you will always see on the label "HC synthese"
yes i think so.
it has to be only from 4+5 iirc.
Vollsynthetiches is Fully synthetic IV and V
Yeah that was my understanding too (about Germany).
Unless you are AMSOIL OE and XL
@@robshaw2990 well i see some german liqui moly oils labeled as fully synthetic with no group 4 base oils in the SDS at all, so hmmm.
It would be nice to see a video where you explain how to choose an oil for our cars. Thanks. Great job
Future readers, #1 any full synthetic, #2 look at your owners manual if you have a warranty, see whats allowed, #3 use an oil viscosity chart and pick based on your temperature
It wasn't in court, but in industry arbitration and the final decision was Exxon / Mobil agreeing that the cheaper method Shell developed to make group III oil did meet the requirements of being a synthetic oil. What had started the whole thing was, Castrol in America was previously buying synthetic oil from Mobil, but in 1999 started buying their synthetic oil from Shell, at a lower price. Mobil 1 oil was originally a hydrocracked group III oil in the 1970's, but later Shell developed a cheaper method of hydrocracking group III oil. Besides selling it for less, Shell licensed the process in Canada and Korea. In 2007 and 2008 Mobil filed for patents on mixing different base stock synthetic motor oils, "for the improvement of motor oils." In the 1970's Mobil 1 was first only available as a 5W20 oil. In 1999 Mobil challenged Shell's lower cost method of making group III oil. After demonstrating the properties of the oil did meet the requirements of a synthetic oil. Mobil agreed it was alright to market it as a synthetic oil.
This court case totally captured my interest, because I was a Mobile 1 user at the time and thought the court case would provide clarity. (Still have the vehicle that used Mobile 1 with the engine mechanically untouched.) I was astonished with the court’s decision on that case. Have dealt with the court’s understanding of science and technology for many years. In a very broad (general) view, Court decisions seem to be based more on the “argument” and not necessarily on bare facts.
It's certainly interesting, and probably something which plague courts. You're basically asking someone that isn't familiar with the technology to make a ruling.
The general public has very unrealistic expectations of the courts. The “truth” as most of us know it, becomes very subjective.
@@LubricationExplained They don't dismiss themselves as being incompetent and apologize.
That's almost always the case with politics. Gun laws by people that have no knowledge of them, this law about synthetics, and then there's the laws that go through because a big company supporting it has a good lawyer, like the new patented 1234yf refridgerant with lower global warming factor than the old r-134a stuff that just had patents expire a few years prior.. hmm. I'm all for creating less chemical junk for future is to deal with, but it's due convenient for DuPont. They would rather keep propane or isobutane illegal in the AC system despite it being sold over the counter for they task and already plumbed in to many vehicle's engines and camp vehicles without excessive flammability issues.
AMSOIL was founded on innovation. Company founder Al Amatuzio was commercially selling synthetic oil by 1968. Mobil 1 was not the first to have synthetic motor oil.
Perhaps one the best explanations of the Castrol/Mobil legal battle and outcome
Thanks! That means a lot.
Not really, since it missed the point that it wasn't a legal battle in court.
@@salsuginusrex5196 I don't agree, even though it wasn't in court, having the NAD side with Castrol assures that they would have won in court as well.
I'm super interested in this, get some insights from 'bob is the oil guy' forum and my oil supplier.
My oil supplier said that because recycled oil is stronger, the weaker molecules have fallen apart the first time in the engine, you're allowed to call it synthetic oil, it stays in grade these days, which I think is both better base oil and better VI improvers.
From Bob is the oil guy, people in America were putting Shell Rotella synthetic diesel oil in their bikes for it's high zinc content, but we don't get it here, in Austrlai, or we don't get it as full syn for low price like in US.
Before buying, just see the German data sheets. In Germany, they are by law not allowed to call Hydrocracks synthetic. If it says synthetic there, it IS a syntethic
Nice one. I actually do this for industrial lubricants too because German laws seem to require more disclosure of additive compounds.
@@LubricationExplained German law does not. There were just some court cases where the court decided that for an (automotive) oil, the average customer thinks of "full synthetic" as something better and thus III should not be marketed as such.
Keep in mind that in Germany court decisions are single cases and cannot be applied in general like in the USA for example. So in theory other companies can still market as they wish until someone sues them. For example Motul - despite being one of the companies actually sued over this - still advertises as "full synthetic" on their German website - maybe I should bring this up to the other company so they can sue Motul again...
And besides that, this is with an average customer in mind so it probably is not applicable in general to oils for example in the industrial environment.
@@whuzzzup I've read that Group III can't be called full synthetics in Europe as well.
Mr. Amatuzio developed synthetic oil for combustion engines in the late 60s early 70s. It took 30 years for the big boys to catch up the what Amsoil was doing for the industry. Synthetics had been around since WWll for our fighter jets and bombers. So do you really know what's in your oil? Amsoil is the very 1st of many 1sts. They were 1st awarded the API certification for synthetic oil and over 20 more 1sts in the industry. Don't take my word for this information. Check it out for your selves. So just a little synthetic oil in the bottle according to the courts, means you have a quart of oil that is synthetic. Hmm interesting.
I remember this case. Yes muddied the waters indeed. There are some oil manufacturers that will say what they are using in as a base oil in their oils (Redline, Driven, Maxima, Pennzoil, Ravenol, etc) One thing though it is a balance of good base oils and additives and how it will perform in real world service thatmakes a great oil. JMHO
Yes very true!
Loving your vids mate!! As mentioned in another thread I’m an NDT engineer and during the corrosion analysis module of my degree we scratched the surface of lubricants .. Anyway that’s that …. So thinking back to the ‘Motor oil’ wars of the 80’s-90’s where you had Mobil 1, Castrol GTX etc … Where did ‘Duckhams Hypergrade’ fit in? Lol … At the time it came across as if it was liquid GOLD and would turn your car into a high performing Audi Quatro rally car!!! Lol … As you say ‘Marketing’ has a massive sway on it all, I mean sticking ‘Hypergrade’ on the end makes it sound like seriously good stuff doesn’t it lol …
As far as I know, even PAO-based oils must contain some HC or mineral base oils because additives do not dissolve properly in PAO. Or am I wrong?
Most of the time PAOs will be mixed with a bit of synthetic ester or alkylated naphthalene. Those "co-bases" help to solvate the additive package.
Whoever spends the most money,and make the most money,decide these corporate wins.
This is why i never use Castrol
To be fair, the rest of the industry has followed them.
@@LubricationExplained Yes. The most disappointeted thing is Exxon also has followed, even still they blended fully/partially PAO, but they gave up offering consumers such “Conventional Synthetic“.
I think this judge changed Exxon's advertising strategy and pride of original formulation on consumer's market; on the opposite side Castrol won those, and they sfhifted to sell Mobil1 as some "Synthetic" like Castrol.
I know the Gr.3 Synthetic has enough performance for normal use.
But, it made us the most victims, who want PAO Synthetic product.
I appreciate having a group III oil that cost's $2 more for 5 qts than conventional group II. You can still just by a group 4 or 5 oil if you want it.
@@lonniebeal6032but you can’t get it with economies of scale pricing anymore.
If you want pure synthetic oil without VII, you have to go with a niche brand like redline, which is triple the price of mass market group III full synthetics.
If a companies as large as Mobil were still selling pure PAO based oils at scale, it would be more expensive than group iii oils, but not 3x - and you could get it anywhere anytime.
Castrol robbed us of getting pure/true synthetic oils at lower prices.
@@lonniebeal6032yeah but now PAO/ester only oils are more than double the price, because they’re niche products and can’t be produced at scale. If large companies like Mobil 1 still produced pure PAO oils, they would be more expensive, much cheaper than pure synthetics like RedLine. Group III’s would still exist. They’d probably call them semi synthetic or something.
But consumers lost out on mass market pure PAO oils with no VII.
I don't understand why this video only got 4.6k views
The lie gets ever more so when they cover up the noack and hths numbers. These would really help see beyound the label most times
I like the story from you, easy and good point . The performance is the key we need to know, not the material. Good point. Sorry about the bad English.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Dr LE, Would like your explanation of how diesel engine EGR, SCR, DPF work to reduce emissions
Good idea, will add it to the list.
do synthetic in Australia PAO or group III? or do they follow what was done in the USA and downgrade their products.
Most of the world has followed the US - I think Germany might be the only exception?
Good information thanks for the video.
Glad it was helpful!
I'm thankful for the group III oils, it's much cheaper than group IV and group III is far superior to group II, while being just a hair higher in price than II. That being said, Mobile was in the right. Mobile was a group IV at the time, to compete with the new group III pricing, they became a group III. I wish oil manufacturers were required to state on the bottle if it's group III or group IV.
Synthetics are a frustrating topic, as the average consumer/purchaser assumes they are all the same and therefore buys the cheapest.
Trying to get people to understand that they are not the same and cheaper does not equal savings, can fall on deaf ears.
Nice to see you here Ev :) Yup! I think a lot of it stems from the fact that most lubricant brands are also fuel brands. If most of your interaction with a brand is fuel then you become accustomed to buying commodity products from them - given pretty much all fuels are interchangeable.
Dear Mr. Le, I will write to your e-mail in following days to discuss a possible video conference (for use on youtube) about lubes. We have the experience talking about PAO, PAG, mineral, synthetic, silicone, bentonite and etc etc.
Please do!
Now, some engine oil even dare to lie. They have 100% synthetic or full synthetic in their bottle, but mentioned more than 75% group 2 oil ini msds. that is older than group 3. But the good thing is, it is more suitable for vehicle with more than 100K km. Better than "mineral" oil from grup 3.
Motul ???
@@stevanradin9452 example, motul 8100 X-CESS GEN2 5W40 hydrotreated 50 to 100%, hydrotreated 10 to 25%,
defined as High performance 100% Synthetic lubricant
Good video, But AMSOIL was the first PAO before Mobile.
Mobil makes many PAO and esters. Mobil 1 uses them in its blends. Amsoil just blends but I highly doubt they have done the research like Mobil oil does.
What's the difference between mobil 1 5w30 and mobil super 3000 5w30...
Good question - and not one that I can really answer because there are 1000 different versions of Mobil 1 and Super 3000. As a general comment - you're more likely to find PAO in the Mobil 1's and I'd make an educated guess that the Super 3000's are Group III's. Some of the Mobil 1's are also a mix of mPAO and Group III. I've covered this in another video, but there's two different kinds of PAO - conventional and metallocene. Metallocene has a superior performance profile, so you can mix it with Group III and get the equivalent performance of a conventional PAO.
@@LubricationExplained I think oil companies should be made to state what their base formulas are.
They seem to put full synthetic on everything these days when it's just a a tricked up mineral.
What car year and engine do you have?
what engine oil & viscosity do use? that is an important question I would like to know Sir
Believe it or not, don't even have a car! Used to have a company car but lost access to that when I resigned. The used car market is currently insane and I can't justify spending that much money at the moment.
@@LubricationExplained what off the shelf 0w20 oil would you use if you had a car/truck? no amsoils, just regular autoparts store shelf oils.
also do you have a video about manufacturer recommended viscosities and are they absolute for mechanical oil pumps vs electronic?
@@hostilityy I know this is old, but for future readers, extensive testing by Projectfarms, if I was forced to use 0w20 in the summer, it would be Redline, Amsoil, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum or Triax in that order during the summer months, during the winter or under 30c, any group III.
There are many syn oils on the market, from 20$ for right to 60$ for a standard 4 liter pack, all api sp ilsac gp6 certified. Can those certifications be trusted? What if a manufacturer in Malaysia (look up 4S Professional, Mizu) gets certified but only the sample was actually sp gf6, does api/ilsac actually randomly test the products on market to verify? I don't know how that process works so I'll stick to big boys like Shell Mobil Valvo etc so not so much a 20$ oil that claims sp. I've emailed these manufacturers for pds but no reply came
Maybe. Like in Brazil, they test randomly all around the country buying oils at commercial stores. Gov agency called ANP does that. Maybe most countries does that.
Yeah, you would have to be really bold to do something like that, because competitors also buy random batches for testing too. If you got caught, that's pretty much the death of a brand.
Yeah I hate that that's why I don't run Castrol even mobil has went to using group 3 Hydro cracked oils to be competitive in the marketplace as far as I know the only oil that is a true 100% synthetic from mobil 1 is their extended performance. That's why I take all the guessing out of it and buy Amsoil Signature Series 100% true Pao synthetic
Motul 8100 series is only group 4 and group 5 , pao and ester.
Great video....And remember that you get what you pay for with motor oil if you're buying $3 a quart Sam's Choice synthetic it's not going to have a good base stock or very expensive additives in it you're getting $3 worth of synthetic oil! The base stocks are the most important part the additive package just compliments the base oil So when you buy a good 100% synthetic oil like Amsoil you're getting a really good true synthetic base oil and the best most expensive additives on the market then you end up with a very pure over engineered oil and gear heads like me that's what we want
All Amsoil is PAO group IV??
@@mareksumguy1887 the signature series is definitely but the oem is just really refined group 3 like other oil companies still good oil no doubt but the signature series is the best
Uhm and then u get the argument about 100% vs full syn...just toooo much
Hahaha, yep.
Not really, Group III vs Group IV, end of discussion.
do you prefer semi-synthitec or over pao grop 4 ? car engines
It's nice to have Group IV, but the way I drive, I probably don't need it!
why did you say semi-synthetic is your favorite?
I should have been more specific - "synthetic fortified" is my favourite marketing term because it sounds so ridiculous. It is definitely not my favourite base oil technology.
Low standard, they can not compare the germany standard document and must label on the production is Euro car, European quality cause any lubricant brand lower than euro car standard certificate.
In Russia a very interesting thing is that people think cheap synthetic oil is really synthetic!!!! So naive.
To be fair, it's difficult for the layperson to see through all the marketing jargon.
It's still waaaay better than group II conventional.
Apparent the justice system can be bought
It always was for the highest bidder.
Fast forward to today’s reality….anything defined as >120 VI with 90% saturates can be classified as Group III, however the additive companies are the ones who will test the base stock to verify it meets their minimum performance standards. But their is a HUGE difference between Mobil 1 and let’s say “Bobs bargain brand full synthetic”.
Exxon tries to win the race…some folks just want a car/driver that qualifies for the cheapest cost to maximize profits.
Yeah, so there's definitely a few different philosophies in how to formulate a lubricant. I should do a video on that!
I've been buying AmsOil Signature for over a decade in my fleet of old junk. It has offered extremely good performance, so I can't complain about function. But, the more I look into it, the more I see it isn't really a full synthetic oil. Do you have any knowledge on what the oil is, and if it matters?
Mobil 1 Extended Performance would do as well as Amsoil Signature. Save yourself a lot of money and stop thinking about this so much. It work’s excellent in the cold winters. Mobil 1 makes so many different PAO and ester oils. Mobil is so far ahead of the others.
As a law student, this was right up my alley :D
Courts have to decide cases based on methodology and criteria set out in law. The process can be a bit mechanical- and sometimes this yields to surprising outcomes...
Thanks for sharing!
And in a few cases the judge shepherding the show is just in way beyond their level of understanding and biases the outcome through simple ignorance of the technical matter and inability to admit it. (And I suppose in rare cases there are judges with ...alternate motives.)
I mean there was a patent judge who interpreted the Wright brothers simple wing warping mechanism to cover the entire concept of roll control. This is like patenting the rack and pinion steering mechanism and being granted full rights over the very concept of steering a car. With the exception of Glen Curtis, who essentially ignored the claim while spending years in court with the Wright's, the roll control ruling basically stopped all aircraft development in the USA from the Wrights through the end of WW1 when congress finally had to step in. (The Wrights never made any significant inovation after getting their patents, as their main motive was not flying its self but just to own the patents. They were a sort of early patent troll. ) This same judge had a few years earlier also granted Ford some rather dubious broad patent claims regarding the automobile. Most airplane advances during this period were made in France with a bit in Germany and Britain.
@@mytech6779 I've not read into the specifics of those cases, but sure sounds like the judge took a very broad reading of the patent laws then in force.
With technical questions in emerging fields there's a second factor at play - expert witnesses. It might be hard to find unbiased witnesses whose views you are allowed to legally consider in assessing the proper scope of the protection, if a big portion of would be experts are connected to the applicant.
In other words, bullshit.
Syn Guard !!!!!!!!!!!!! Ashland BOYD
Your whole premise is simply wrong. There never was a court case nor did any 'judge/jury' rule about this in legal terms.
What really happened was, that the "National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus" was ok with what Castrol claimed. This has nothing to do with the "real" judicial system.
To quote Wikipedia: "Better Business Bureau (BBB) is a private, 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization [...] Better Business Bureau is not affiliated with any governmental agency. Businesses that affiliate with BBB and adhere to its standards do so through industry self-regulation."
Just found it, yup, it was the NAD, but still, the results are the same as a court case...