Ok but can we just admire the production in this video? Both musically and video-wise, it’s gorgeous, easy to hear, easy to understand, and generally well done. Brilliant Sanjay!
Only thing I can think of is the greater value range. I don't really use Midi controllers just instruments like a Keyboard and Seaboard, all my synths are software based at this time.
zero latency should be the primary goal here,however,the points mentioned in your video are also beneficial for us,music lovers,i hope its backwards compatible
It would be awesome if there could be a firmware upgrade that would allow us to use MIDI 2.0 features without having to buy new hardware. I foresee a very expensive upgrade to my arsenal in the future. But a great one indeed.
That normal with any standard, you just relese and let transition it self to new standard, note that musitions dont care about technicalities they want thing to work, thats why they push backward compadibility.
My GOODNESS! BEST NEWS EVER!!! Why is this only now happening??? I hate the controller route. I have been hunting for an easier way to record music from my synthesizer! In this modern era we should be able to just jack a keyboard in and a DAW should be able to recognize it and record just as if it were a midi controller! Lookn forward to this sooo much!
Great round-up of what's to come :) For those worried about backwards compatibility there is a lot of work to make sure this is backwards compatible. Sanjay, I am also currently working on Property Exchange in MIDI 2.0 so I'm happy to answer any questions you might have.
So cool! Thanks for commenting. Can you give us more details on what Property Exchange can do? And also, is it possible to add MIDI 2.0 features to our existing midi controllers?
@@SanjayC I'll answer the 2nd question first tldr: yes but it's complicated :) The MIDI 2.0 specification should be released soon, in it you will see the new packet format called UMP (Universal packet Format). UMP will require a new transport layers. One of the first transport layers will be USB, and a new MIDI 2 Class Compliant USB specification is being worked on by the USB-IF. Class compliant USB drivers can only be written (generally) by the OS. I have no idea how long that will take however I do know that the OS companies are aware of MIDI 2.0. When the class compliant drivers are out in the public then a Hardware manufacturer *could* update the USB Drivers in their firmware to make this happen, and if the CPU and physical controls they are using are up to handling the increased resolution. Profiles and Property Exchange just use normal SysEx and can be put on any current hardware (depending on the CPU/RAM available of course :) ), and in fact I did a demo at NAMM where I ran Property Exchange on a Groovesizer TB2 (Arduino Due). I'll post a video soon. The Property Exchange specification when it's released is more about the building blocks and more specifications will (hopefully) be released in 2020 (and beyond). Effectively Property exchange sets up a two-way JSON API between 2 device (this can be Hardware to hardware btw) and understand every particular detail of the MIDI Device. So I can get a complete list of Programs, Get all the Controller details, Edit patches using a GUI editor. It also flexible enough that you could also provide Systems settings, or change the Local On/off etc. One area that is not discussed a lot is that the mechanism allows for updates to also be transmitted, so if I say change the name of the patch on the hardware device this is transmitted (in almost real-time) to the other end, without any user interaction. I'm hoping all that is clear :) I would also suggest having a look at the midi.org page on MIDI2.0 there is a heap of information on there.
Sanjay C I mean dude I’ve been still thinking about it 😂 I’m a church main stage user and I’m thinking about the possibility of never mapping out midi controls like that would be life changing for me! 😂
Nice Juno-106! That was my first synth way back in 1984. Amazing how software synths allow us to have as many synth sounds as we want. Back in the day you had to fork out $ for just one synth. Looking forward to seeing how MIDI 2.0 changes things, especially since I was around when 1.0 came out! Great vid once again!
I'd like to see motorized faders and knobs on hardware. Yes it's probably too expensive but it would be fun when a synth can adjusts to presets that are saved in the daw. But then again, I don't have hardware synths lol, just a random thought!
@@SanjayC would be cool as well, I have soft takeover faders on my lx88+ but I never really use them. I have the touchdaw app which is fun to use sometimes but I think hardware faders will always be the best way to go. Maybe I should make my own midicontroller combining a faderport with a 88 key hammer action and a built in audio interface :P
Some sound mixers are able to do that. There is one that they use for my band where you press a preset and all of the sliders and knobs move by themselves
@@SanjayC definitely haha! Gotta keep the content flowing 🎹🎹🎹 I haven't had a ton of time recently. I had been working on something a little more like epic orchestral music. If you want to check out a website I've been developing (which is the main reason I haven't had too much time) hitesforcongress.com is what I've been working on. There's still some more work but it's mostly done!
MIDI is just a data definition so it's all on the companies that make software that reads the MIDI data to see what enhancements we'll see. What I'm will be waiting to see is if there will be speed issues. Sending more data is nice, but that mean much bigger packets of data that has to be encoded, transmitted, then decoded. Also more memory will be needed hold the increased packet sizes. So this will be interesting to see how it all pans out, will we need more beefy hardware/computers to handle MIDI 2.0.
the MIDI 1.0 Interface is ridiculously slow from todays point of view - 31kBaud, less than telephone modems 20 years ago, being based on similar serial chips. Nowadays RS232 chips can to 30 times more (but still less than USB 1.1), DMX (also about 30 years old) is about 8 times faster. So, whatever they chose as a protocol standard for the cables, speed per se will not be a problem. Question is more likely bus contention/priority, say, will it be a realtime bus, like Firewire.
5G has nothing to do with sending/processing MIDI data. We're talking a MIDI controller device sending data via a MIDI or USB cable to a computer to be decoded and then processed by a sound module. MIDI 2 increase the amount/size of the data being sent to be processed.
Yo Sanjay! Great Vid as always....Nice to hear a very nice shout to to Dave Smith and all the other folding fathers of MIDI Also looks like 2.0 is a whole new ball game
While it may seem like apples and oranges, I wonder the impact of the creation of MIDI vs the ability to store presets on a synth :) I actually think they were mutually exclusive, depending on needs, but must have been a rebirth for such synthesists as Keith Emerson to finally be able to store and recall presets. My initial experience with MIDI was in 1986, using a Commodore C-64 and a notation software...... some name like "Music Shop for MIDI". I placed every note with a 4-pole joystick, using the C-64's SID chip, and MIDI output to a Casio CZ-101 AND a Casio HT-33, which was multitimbral PCM and contained a drum channel, and recording to a TEAC 2340 reel deck. While the C-64's horsepower occasionally went a little sluggish on me, the result was symphonic Latin rock :)
As you described about the Roland A-88 MkII "didn't do anything special" the "Yet" was well put :) I'd rather have top-heavy POTENTIAL than top-heavy EXCESS out the gate...... like auto-reversing cassette decks with scrub for next silent point, self-degaussing heads, and even an "Odorama" feature that would emit fragrances reflecting the character of the music in play :) I'll bet Skynyrd's "That Smell" would be a novelty :) Or Frank Zappa's "Stinkfoot". More stuff to break. Point is that with such a rapid and stable communications protocol simply awaiting your desired task for things you'd not yet expected a device to do, it's better than an upon-boot plethora of features far outside the scope of your style and need, bogging down the creato-process. An example would be Cakewalk Sonar.......When Sonar 4 or 5 stepped up to the successor version, the GUI was top-heavy with colors, excess of features, etc. I missed "Metro" on early-ish Macintoshes...... yeah, this is a surprise to find such an overhaul of a system already chock full of productive capabilities. I'm nowhere near your level of expertise but when you revealed the huge upgrade of resolution from 0-127 to 0-65000 I definitely got the significance. This expose/demo/news was, as typical for you, quite excellent...... and thanks, too!!!!!
Man.. I have been reading about MIDI 2.0 on & off..for the past few months..... and i must say.. the general public (the music general public) hasnt been giving this enough importance. The recent Standard Update is Huge!! , and will allow us to doing many things that we've been wishing we could do, for years.. now.. I wonder what such an upgrade will imply .. for anyone wishing to move to MIDI 2.0 enable devices. in the end..though... and looking at MPE alone..for eg.. i reckon that MUSIC will evolve very very much.. as we will be able to, not only express ourselves more thoroughly... but also... waste less time fixing up gear..and setting up devices.. Thanks for the video Sanjay. I'll be very much standing by for any development u share with us.. in this department. ;)
Yeah, that's one of the reasons I wanted to make this video. There's huge potential in this update and not enough excitement like mine. I'm glad you're into it! :-) I agree with you, music is going to evolve because its going to be easier to make it. How long have you been making music?
Well done! I shared a link of your video to an e drum group as midi 2.0 would be great for improved dynamic articulation of electronic drums. You explained the topic very nicely.
I am a guitar player, so MIDI in "my world" means channel switching, preset banks etc. I never feel limited by the current state of tech, although two way midi may save a few cables
Seems like future is close!.. But i hope this won't replace completely the classic midi in music like we know it today, apart from that, looks really interesting and I'd like to see how it gets developed. Also, the nexus 3 beat :D
On the fly note assignment could be used to "assist" a keyboard player ... allowing a controller keyboard to (realtime) "assist" said-human by altering bung notes ... given the song structure and timing info, or even just a basic chord constraint. Per-note controller assignment could also make killer performances easier ... example ... pitch bend a tone for the third, by an octave for the fifth (or whatever). MPE no longer is an awkward strap-on device. So much good stuff ahead.
@@SanjayC Well, MIDI 2.0 certainly takes the magic sauce out of their software implementation. Hardware wise, absolutely. Seaboard doesn't know/respond to multiple fingers per note, touchpad-like gestures or anything other than position/pressure YET.
Hey Sanjay! Would love to hear what you think about isolation shields and which ones you would recommend (especially in the affordable cost range). Also, just wanted to say thank you for all the guide videos you made from which equipment to buy to tips on making music. I just started this month and it's helped me tremendously.
So we will all have to buy new instruments and controllers that have MIDI 2.0 !!! Sanjay C don´t forget that Portuguese is one of the 5 most spoken languages in the world. Brazil is very big where Portuguese is spoken and other countries. I ´m Portuguese and I speak English without problems but I saw that your videos are translated into many languages except Portuguese 😉
Thanks for reminding me! Added Portuguese right now! Thanks for watching from Brazil! I think we may see some interesting new devices at the end of this year. I wonder if existing keyboards can take advantage of MIDI 2.0 through USB and a firmware update. That would be nice.
Isn't it funny how so many manufacturers removed standard midi i/o ports in their stuff.. specifically Yamaha and Casio, and their digital pianos. MIDI is bigger than ever. They should have kept the ports in. Regular midi I/O blows away usb, if only for the sole reason that the connections are rock solid, and don't jiggle and eventually flake out. I hope they keep the 5-pin DIN connections. I really do.
The Roland Cloud version is EXCELLENT. I would say, just keep using that. Its sound just like the real thing :-). Do you use any other Roland Cloud synths a lot?
Sanjay C Of course I use other Roland Cloud synthesizers! The ones I use most are: Roland D50, Juno 106, JV-1080, SRX-Studio, SRX World and the new XV-5080 is also very good. Sanjay C Korg Triton is a VST from another world. Don't forget Triton in your collection. Absolutely fantastic! For me, the best VST ever and look, I have others like Spectranonics Omnisphere, Serum, Kontakt with some good sound libraries but Korg triton is at the top of the tops! Absolutely incredible sound!
hi Sanjay, when you test the roland a88mk2 don't you find that the velocity curve provided are strange? i have to use the lightest one and i can't acces the smallet velocities,with the next velocity curve (a bit less light) i can access to all the velocities but then i have to put a lot of strengh to reach medium and highest velocities , the other curve are just useless (i was trained for classical piano with grand piano (steinway and yamaha) at school and upright piano at home
I can't wait! Although, didn't they already anounce it at last year's NAMM? I remember an Adam Neely video from last year talking about it, I think?! So, what's you guess on how long it'll take to finally become a real thing? I know you kinda answered that in the video, saying that there's not really a way to know but take a guess? The reason I saks is, since we recently moved out of our small inner city appartment into a big house with lots of space, I was about to move up from my travel tested Novation Launchkey Mini to a full scale, start-your-home-recording-studio Arturia Keylab 88 Mk2. Quite an investment for me and something I am planning on getting a lot of use out of for at least a couple of years. Do you think waiting another year and maybe getting a potential "Keylab 88 Mk3" with MIDI 2.0 would make sense or do you think it's not really worth holding one's breath for now? Or would that be something that could be fixed with something like a firmware update if I bought the Arturia now?? I don't know how anything works, sorry :D Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks and cheers from Germany :)
Hi and thanks for the comment. I have a feeling that it will take a long time before everything (keyboards, synths, and DAWs) are compatible to really make good use out of MIDI 2.0. So I suggest you don't wait. Maybe get something small and cheap for now and see what news comes out. I'll keep you posted here.
@@SanjayC Thanks for the quick reply and the advice. I have been mulling it over in my head, too, and i think I might just get a new Launchkey Mini Mk3 for now to be up to date on tje road and my brother offered me his old Roland 88 key (don't remember the name now) for home. It's old, like I said, but it should give me everything I need (mainly weighted, full scale keys, expression/sustain pedals, mod wheels, the standards) to get started at home and give me time to follow the developments on the market. Thanks again and see ya in your next video :)
I do not expect it to be same revolution - thing like first instance of MIDI was - but yes, features are amazing and there is much more, on the tech side. BTW, you are aware that with advanced MIDI you CAN theoretically send 127x127 values of velocity? Each standard MIDI value can be split and assigned a value of 0/127 to each step.
@@SanjayC lot of information bro I gotta watch again. I'm good sanjay. I'm entering stock music Licensing in this month and wanna get better at making country- pop music.
I don't think its worth waiting because lots of things need to be updated, not just keyboards. Its the DAWs, synth, etc. So it will be some time before everything is working together well. That's my guess.
I bought recently rise 49, s61 mk2 and push 2. What should I expect? They"ll work after their 2.0 daw updates? And what is gonna happen with hardware that don't have midi inputs like rise which has USB only or other stuff? And what will happen with daws upgrades? What if one day ableton or other daw make an upgrade for 2.0. The existing midi 1 devises will work properly or they will have problems?
Your current gear will be fine. MIDI 2.0 is backward compatible so your current devices will continue to work. I think all devices going forward will have some kind of usb connection rather than the old MIDI plug.
Will people need to replace their hardware in order to be midi 2.0 compliant? if there's unique hardware coming from th elikes of Roland for 2.0, what kinds of limitations will the previous generation of plugins/hardware run into in the world of 2.0?
About using my old gear.... I have a CME UF8 88 Key controller keyboard that I love. USB Drivers have not seen the light of day since 2006 (XP). Win 10? Nope! It does have Midi out. Can you point me to learn to use all the features and controls via Midi? My Audio Interface has the Midi port and uses Firewire into my PC. DAW is ProTools 9 and Win 7 64 bit that runs PT 32 bit.. Thanks for any guidance!
Your keyboard should work just fine if you connect it through your audio interface. Should work right away. But if its not, maybe check your audio interface software.
HI SANJAY I WATCHED YOUR VIDEO AND WHAT DO U MEAN BY THE A88 roland MK2 did not do anything special WITH THIS 2.0 mini ?? the reason why I asked, is because Im thinking about gettng a keybroad controller FOR MY DAW LOGICPRO X but I want one thats feels good under your hands when u play it SO CREATING SONGS FEELS EASY AND FUN as well as taking diffeent sounds from your daw, do u have any suggestions from the 500 to 900 us dollars range FOR KEYBROAD CONTROLLERS ??? thanks for your advice big fan mike
Easier for everyone. What do you think about music creation bring so easy now? Lots of competition? Or do you think it’s still a difficult thing for most people to grasp?
What will this mean to me? I’m a guitarist and just starting to look into production, I have no gear as of yet but I am looking to obviously get an interface, a daw, headphones and maybe a midi controller and drumpad. Do I wait for a year to get the stuff or is what’s already out there gunna be compatible with MIDI 2.0? Long paragraph sorry but wouldn’t like wasting money and so on ahah
I don't think its worth waiting. It may take time before keyboards, drum pads, DAWs, plugins, and synths are all MIDI 2.0 and start working together to bring us these benefits. You may lose time that you could've been creating music. Get started now, especially with your DAW. If they add MIDI 2.0 features, you may just need to upgrade for free or at a small cost. An Audio Interface isn't going to be improved much by MIDI 2.0, so no reason to wait on that.
@@SanjayC thanks mate I’m looking to save right now and look when I have money as I’m still young but thanks on it soon as possible. Listen out for my stuff😉😂
I've got a Tascam US-428 that's become a paper weight because newer computer systems don't recognize it. Will this new midi system allow me to use it's knobs and buttons with modern computers and hardware?
I'd like to see MIDI 2.0 directly handle micro-tones rather than the cumbersome and inaccurate method now (note value + pitch bend). Wouldn't be hard if they increased the number of note values and shrank the interval represented by each step in value.
@@SanjayC Def! I wonder how will that play with MPE devices. I love my Roli stuff and I put together a template with multi channels (from your video btw, thanks!) but I still find it less "plug & play" than it should be
I hope midi 2.0 will help ditch out all theses automation and expressions keys that you have to trigger in vsti and daw ... it is so time consuming to try to make a vsti sound real
That’s a long time for a midi upgrade. Especially when we get a new usb standard every couple weeks. My question with midi 2.0 is the comparability with the old standard.
What kind of royalties these companies expect to get for using this standard ? Or is it completely free ? If not too bad, even if it is, complicated chips talks to some obscure protocol can destroy the modularity, increase prices and lower the longevity of devices you purchase, destroy competition. We observe this in every industry, for example you cannot control the LCD of your phone, because it uses an industry standard MIPI interface. They DO NOT sell MIPI chips to individuals or small companies at all...
Hi Sanjay, I have an important question for future shopping: if I follow your link on your trusty computer I realize you only have 8GB RAM on your MacBook Pro..... how are you able to make any music at all when my own iMac with the same RAM-amount signals it is almost crashing only when I open my Logic Pro X-DAW? Leaving alone my plugIns which wait to be integrated? I was so stupid to upgrade to Catalina.... that is when all this shxx started.
hi Peter. Actually I have 16GB on my Macbook. But I had 8GB for a long time. Sometimes when I stack on a lot of plugins things can get slow. Or with a heavy plugin like Massive X. Even with my 16GB, things are slow sometimes. I haven't upgraded to Catalina yet. I'm scared!
@@SanjayC thank you for your honest answer. I googled others who complained numerously of slow performance only because the upgraded to Catalina. I plan to buy a windows PC with at least 32 GB or even 64 GB RAM and turn to Cubase 10 (Cubase is where I actually came from).
Hi Sanjaj C...I heard two jears about midi 2.0 and that's gona crash us music maker...what are you think? More expensive equipment, vst, au and because super Harmony music will be available everywere and super expensive controllers with fantastic possibility and...man I'm not shure what I'm feeling, what your predictions
Hi Igor. I think manufacturers will eventually need to keep the price affordable or no one is going to buy their gear. Or one company will start making cheaper gear, and other companies may have to compete.
Hmm... I do wonder how many devices with USB-MIDI already out there (like Arturia and Novation, for example) just need a firmware update bring 2.0 capabilities to them. That would be a nice little money-saver, to say the least. :)
Ok but can we just admire the production in this video? Both musically and video-wise, it’s gorgeous, easy to hear, easy to understand, and generally well done. Brilliant Sanjay!
Thanks, Lachlan. So awesome that you appreciate those little things!
Always man! You clearly work hard, and it shows :)
I grew up with Midi. Second generation would be so fun
Yeah, its gonna be interesting for sure!
What's on your wish list for MIDI 2.0? Comment below!
Only thing I can think of is the greater value range. I don't really use Midi controllers just instruments like a Keyboard and Seaboard, all my synths are software based at this time.
Can you check out my music in my page ?? I appreciate it.
Backwards compatibility is a big must!
zero latency should be the primary goal here,however,the points mentioned in your video are also beneficial for us,music lovers,i hope its backwards compatible
😃😃😃😃😃😃😃super....
It would be awesome if there could be a firmware upgrade that would allow us to use MIDI 2.0 features without having to buy new hardware. I foresee a very expensive upgrade to my arsenal in the future. But a great one indeed.
Totally agree. I hope they can give us some features by firmware update.
@@eiypo I'mma be ready to buy that used gear tho for cheap 😳🤔💀😹
Not gonna happen .... have to buy new ....
@@lloydmunga4961 definitely gonna happen buddy 😳😹😹🤦🤷
That normal with any standard, you just relese and let transition it self to new standard, note that musitions dont care about technicalities they want thing to work, thats why they push backward compadibility.
My GOODNESS! BEST NEWS EVER!!! Why is this only now happening??? I hate the controller route. I have been hunting for an easier way to record music from my synthesizer! In this modern era we should be able to just jack a keyboard in and a DAW should be able to recognize it and record just as if it were a midi controller! Lookn forward to this sooo much!
Exactly! Long time coming. I hope they integrate this into new devices soon.
Great round-up of what's to come :)
For those worried about backwards compatibility there is a lot of work to make sure this is backwards compatible.
Sanjay, I am also currently working on Property Exchange in MIDI 2.0 so I'm happy to answer any questions you might have.
So cool! Thanks for commenting. Can you give us more details on what Property Exchange can do? And also, is it possible to add MIDI 2.0 features to our existing midi controllers?
@@SanjayC I'll answer the 2nd question first tldr: yes but it's complicated :)
The MIDI 2.0 specification should be released soon, in it you will see the new packet format called UMP (Universal packet Format). UMP will require a new transport layers. One of the first transport layers will be USB, and a new MIDI 2 Class Compliant USB specification is being worked on by the USB-IF. Class compliant USB drivers can only be written (generally) by the OS. I have no idea how long that will take however I do know that the OS companies are aware of MIDI 2.0. When the class compliant drivers are out in the public then a Hardware manufacturer *could* update the USB Drivers in their firmware to make this happen, and if the CPU and physical controls they are using are up to handling the increased resolution.
Profiles and Property Exchange just use normal SysEx and can be put on any current hardware (depending on the CPU/RAM available of course :) ), and in fact I did a demo at NAMM where I ran Property Exchange on a Groovesizer TB2 (Arduino Due). I'll post a video soon.
The Property Exchange specification when it's released is more about the building blocks and more specifications will (hopefully) be released in 2020 (and beyond). Effectively Property exchange sets up a two-way JSON API between 2 device (this can be Hardware to hardware btw) and understand every particular detail of the MIDI Device. So I can get a complete list of Programs, Get all the Controller details, Edit patches using a GUI editor. It also flexible enough that you could also provide Systems settings, or change the Local On/off etc. One area that is not discussed a lot is that the mechanism allows for updates to also be transmitted, so if I say change the name of the patch on the hardware device this is transmitted (in almost real-time) to the other end, without any user interaction.
I'm hoping all that is clear :) I would also suggest having a look at the midi.org page on MIDI2.0 there is a heap of information on there.
Sounds like with midi 2.0 Imma finnaly be able to get a GF.
😆 😂
midi 2.0 sounds unbelievable but yet practical and much needed!
YES! I like that they are taking care of some practical things first. These are things we've needed for years.
Sanjay C I mean dude I’ve been still thinking about it 😂 I’m a church main stage user and I’m thinking about the possibility of never mapping out midi controls like that would be life changing for me! 😂
Nice Juno-106! That was my first synth way back in 1984. Amazing how software synths allow us to have as many synth sounds as we want. Back in the day you had to fork out $ for just one synth. Looking forward to seeing how MIDI 2.0 changes things, especially since I was around when 1.0 came out! Great vid once again!
Thanks! Yeah its an amazing time to be a musician. Being able to have a Juno 106 in your laptop. Insane!
Thanks for reporting this. Understanding our tools of the trade is not geeking out. It's mastery. ✊🏾
I like that - mastery! 👍
I'd like to see motorized faders and knobs on hardware. Yes it's probably too expensive but it would be fun when a synth can adjusts to presets that are saved in the daw. But then again, I don't have hardware synths lol, just a random thought!
How do you feel about touchscreen faders? Would you use a touchscreen or do prefer hardware knobs and faders?
@@SanjayC would be cool as well, I have soft takeover faders on my lx88+ but I never really use them. I have the touchdaw app which is fun to use sometimes but I think hardware faders will always be the best way to go. Maybe I should make my own midicontroller combining a faderport with a 88 key hammer action and a built in audio interface :P
Some sound mixers are able to do that. There is one that they use for my band where you press a preset and all of the sliders and knobs move by themselves
@@g.n.stacey Yes! The Behringer X-touch and the Presonus faderport for example. I haven't seen motorized faders in a keyboard though ;)
Rick Planting Think behringer has released a midi controller / keyboard with 8 moving faders.
Thank you for keeping us in the loop!!
Hey buddy. Sure. But I need some midi 2.0 gear ASAP! Excited about it what are you working on?
@@SanjayC definitely haha! Gotta keep the content flowing 🎹🎹🎹 I haven't had a ton of time recently. I had been working on something a little more like epic orchestral music. If you want to check out a website I've been developing (which is the main reason I haven't had too much time) hitesforcongress.com is what I've been working on. There's still some more work but it's mostly done!
MIDI is just a data definition so it's all on the companies that make software that reads the MIDI data to see what enhancements we'll see. What I'm will be waiting to see is if there will be speed issues. Sending more data is nice, but that mean much bigger packets of data that has to be encoded, transmitted, then decoded. Also more memory will be needed hold the increased packet sizes. So this will be interesting to see how it all pans out, will we need more beefy hardware/computers to handle MIDI 2.0.
Ah, I didn't think of the speed and memory issue. Just one more thing that's going to be a music-making issue!
Not convinced if midi2.0 will introduce recording latency issues. I imagine a very small spectrum of total computer capacity.
the MIDI 1.0 Interface is ridiculously slow from todays point of view - 31kBaud, less than telephone modems 20 years ago, being based on similar serial chips. Nowadays RS232 chips can to 30 times more (but still less than USB 1.1), DMX (also about 30 years old) is about 8 times faster.
So, whatever they chose as a protocol standard for the cables, speed per se will not be a problem. Question is more likely bus contention/priority, say, will it be a realtime bus, like Firewire.
5G has nothing to do with sending/processing MIDI data. We're talking a MIDI controller device sending data via a MIDI or USB cable to a computer to be decoded and then processed by a sound module. MIDI 2 increase the amount/size of the data being sent to be processed.
@@DojoOfCool U are correct.I got my wires crossed.Brain fart. Haha.
Happy to see an Indian professional. Your videos are excellent and interesting. Good job ! Mr.Sanjay 🇮🇳
So nice of you to recognize that. Thank you! 🇮🇳
Had to watch the video twice, as it was packed with relevant information. Thanks for another great tutorial.
Thanks so much. :-D
As usual, very insightful. Thank you Brother Sanjay.
You're welcome. The future is almost here!
Thanks for making this vid, just getting into midi/computer music... so pretty excited to hear about upcoming innovations. 🎉🎉
You're welcome, Nathan! :-)
Thanks for explaining it in simple terms! two thumbs up
Yeah, I needed some help understanding as well. Thanks for watching!
Nice 👏👍 what a knowledge ! Thanks a lot for videos ! They are always very helpful ! 👏👍thanks Sanjay C ! ❤️
Thank you!
Yo Sanjay! Great Vid as always....Nice to hear a very nice shout to to Dave Smith and all the other folding fathers of MIDI
Also looks like 2.0 is a whole new ball game
Thanks, Howard. Yes, we have to remember the pioneers of this technology. Without them, we wouldn't have the awesome gear we use today.
I like that red wall. Artwork looks nice too. Nice space for creating music.
Thank you! :-)
Great info. Short sweet and precise. In 4 minutes you gave us the true picture. 👍👍👍 of what’s to come
I value your time, Jo. I try to give you the info, and get you back to making music! :-)
MIDI 2 Amen 🙏
While it may seem like apples and oranges, I wonder the impact of the creation of MIDI vs the ability to store presets on a synth :) I actually think they were mutually exclusive, depending on needs, but must have been a rebirth for such synthesists as Keith Emerson to finally be able to store and recall presets.
My initial experience with MIDI was in 1986, using a Commodore C-64 and a notation software...... some name like "Music Shop for MIDI". I placed every note with a 4-pole joystick, using the C-64's SID chip, and MIDI output to a Casio CZ-101 AND a Casio HT-33, which was multitimbral PCM and contained a drum channel, and recording to a TEAC 2340 reel deck. While the C-64's horsepower occasionally went a little sluggish on me, the result was symphonic Latin rock :)
Wow you've been in the music game for a long time. Commodore! wow!
Thank you for a concise overview of midi 2.0 I finally understand 😎👍🏻
Glad it was helpful!
Very informative stuff as always SanjayC! Thank you!
Thank you! I'm excited about this stuff
As you described about the Roland A-88 MkII "didn't do anything special" the "Yet" was well put :)
I'd rather have top-heavy POTENTIAL than top-heavy EXCESS out the gate...... like auto-reversing cassette decks with scrub for next silent point, self-degaussing heads, and even an "Odorama" feature that would emit fragrances reflecting the character of the music in play :) I'll bet Skynyrd's "That Smell" would be a novelty :) Or Frank Zappa's "Stinkfoot". More stuff to break.
Point is that with such a rapid and stable communications protocol simply awaiting your desired task for things you'd not yet expected a device to do, it's better than an upon-boot plethora of features far outside the scope of your style and need, bogging down the creato-process.
An example would be Cakewalk Sonar.......When Sonar 4 or 5 stepped up to the successor version, the GUI was top-heavy with colors, excess of features, etc. I missed "Metro" on early-ish Macintoshes...... yeah, this is a surprise to find such an overhaul of a system already chock full of productive capabilities. I'm nowhere near your level of expertise but when you revealed the huge upgrade of resolution from 0-127 to 0-65000 I definitely got the significance.
This expose/demo/news was, as typical for you, quite excellent...... and thanks, too!!!!!
Thanks so much, One World!
Man.. I have been reading about MIDI 2.0 on & off..for the past few months..... and i must say.. the general public (the music general public) hasnt been giving this enough importance.
The recent Standard Update is Huge!! , and will allow us to doing many things that we've been wishing we could do, for years.. now..
I wonder what such an upgrade will imply .. for anyone wishing to move to MIDI 2.0 enable devices.
in the end..though... and looking at MPE alone..for eg.. i reckon that MUSIC will evolve very very much.. as we will be able to, not only express ourselves more thoroughly... but also... waste less time fixing up gear..and setting up devices..
Thanks for the video Sanjay.
I'll be very much standing by for any development u share with us.. in this department.
;)
Yeah, that's one of the reasons I wanted to make this video. There's huge potential in this update and not enough excitement like mine. I'm glad you're into it! :-) I agree with you, music is going to evolve because its going to be easier to make it. How long have you been making music?
hello) big follower of ur videos)) very informative)..wht is the headphone ur wearing in the NAMM booth in this video???
I feel im going to learn a hell of a lots here on your channel...Tks a million Sanjay
Awesome to hear that! Thanks, beez.!
shame he cant say DAW.
Thanks for the news 👍👍👊
Anytime! I'll keep you posted as things develop
Awesome video as always :) Thanks buddy
Thanks, Saif. Glad you enjoyed it!
Well done! I shared a link of your video to an e drum group as midi 2.0 would be great for improved dynamic articulation of electronic drums. You explained the topic very nicely.
Awesome! Thanks so much for sharing my video! :-)
Wow! It's fantastic!🤩
Yeah, I'm excited too!
Oooh can’t wait!!
Yeah! Save up some money for a new keyboard!
Sanjay C I already am haha
I am a guitar player, so MIDI in "my world" means channel switching, preset banks etc. I never feel limited by the current state of tech, although two way midi may save a few cables
What about the possibility of sending more data through the connection? Anything you can think of that we could benefit from?
🙏🏻 the best good news of 2020
Yeah, let's see what devices come in 2020!
Seems like future is close!.. But i hope this won't replace completely the classic midi in music like we know it today, apart from that, looks really interesting and I'd like to see how it gets developed.
Also, the nexus 3 beat :D
Hey, you recognized the Nexus beat! Wow! True fam!
glad you covered this brother sanjay great new's was looking into it in jan at the midi association
Thanks, Tony. Yeah, its pretty exciting!
I think it is so awesome 😎😎😎😎......... Nice.........Bro what version albeton you use??? Pls tell.....
Hey, I'm using the latest version Ableton Live 10. :-)
@@SanjayC thankyou bro because I install this version will soon :))))
EPIC UPDATE!
Yeah, I'm psyched. Can't wait for the first device to come!
Just bought a Roland A88 mk2 for the MIDI 2.0!
Woah so cool! I can't wait to see what we can do with 2.0!
@@SanjayC Yea it feels very nice. I bought that to make sure I wouldn't have to buy another keyboard when MIDI 2.0 comes out!
On the fly note assignment could be used to "assist" a keyboard player ... allowing a controller keyboard to (realtime) "assist" said-human by altering bung notes ... given the song structure and timing info, or even just a basic chord constraint. Per-note controller assignment could also make killer performances easier ... example ... pitch bend a tone for the third, by an octave for the fifth (or whatever). MPE no longer is an awkward strap-on device. So much good stuff ahead.
Nice ideas, Matthew. Do you think we will have new forms of keys? Maybe something that will take the Seaboard keys to the next level?
@@SanjayC Well, MIDI 2.0 certainly takes the magic sauce out of their software implementation. Hardware wise, absolutely. Seaboard doesn't know/respond to multiple fingers per note, touchpad-like gestures or anything other than position/pressure YET.
ROLI MIDI 2.0 BABY!
Its coming! Save up for new gear now, right?
This is definitely the future 🔥 just think about everything you could do 🤯
Yeah, I just hope it comes soon!
Good quality content right here 👌 Hopefully you can make a top(x) DAW video?
Thanks, Bryan. I'm working on that video ;-)
Hey Sanjay! Would love to hear what you think about isolation shields and which ones you would recommend (especially in the affordable cost range). Also, just wanted to say thank you for all the guide videos you made from which equipment to buy to tips on making music. I just started this month and it's helped me tremendously.
Thanks. Love to hear that, Paul. I actually recommend the Knox Isolation Shield in this video: ruclips.net/video/i6hD50_IEP4/видео.html
Midi 2.0 is gorgeous sir 😮
Yeah, I'm excited about it. Can't wait to see some new gear with it.
Yes sir.
Excellent video, thanks for posting, much appreciated. Congratulation on close to 100K subs! New sub : )
Amazing !!!
Hey, Alex, buddy! What's going on?
@@SanjayC beautiful things. I am working on a new EP. I will post our conversation this coming week :)
Alex Boulos nice. Can’t wait to hear your new music!
You are just awesome
Thanks, Fabian. You are too! :-)
Looove the music! And 🤩 WOW 1983 is the best year!!!! 😉
One of my favorites too ❤️️
Thanks. Having seen this, I have decided to wait a year to buy additional MIDI devices instead of doing so now.
So we will all have to buy new instruments and controllers that have MIDI 2.0 !!! Sanjay C don´t forget that Portuguese is one of the 5 most spoken languages in the world. Brazil is very big where Portuguese is spoken and other countries. I ´m Portuguese and I speak English without problems but I saw that your videos are translated into many languages except Portuguese 😉
Thanks for reminding me! Added Portuguese right now! Thanks for watching from Brazil! I think we may see some interesting new devices at the end of this year. I wonder if existing keyboards can take advantage of MIDI 2.0 through USB and a firmware update. That would be nice.
Sanjay C thanks! with translation to portuguese you will have many more subscribers on your channel 😀
I love 2-way messages!!! Remember when 2-way calling had just come out?! It was like 🤯
Yeah, time flies fast, right?
We've been told that MIDI 2.0 was about to arrive for litterally decades. MIDI 1.0 just seems to already do the job fine for those who actually care.
And there is so much that midi 1.0 can do that not used
Maybe my little Roli Block won't be such a PIA to use soon? Bring on 2.0!
EXACTLY! I'm still dreaming of that day!
When do u think MIDI 2 controllers will be in market from NI and Novation? Few months or years?
Isn't it funny how so many manufacturers removed standard midi i/o ports in their stuff.. specifically Yamaha and Casio, and their digital pianos. MIDI is bigger than ever. They should have kept the ports in. Regular midi I/O blows away usb, if only for the sole reason that the connections are rock solid, and don't jiggle and eventually flake out. I hope they keep the 5-pin DIN connections. I really do.
I know what you mean. But I doubt they'll keep it. Everything is going USB-C now. :-/
You have a Roland Juno 106. I use it sometimes but on the Roland Cloud. It's a great synthesizer! 😀
The Roland Cloud version is EXCELLENT. I would say, just keep using that. Its sound just like the real thing :-). Do you use any other Roland Cloud synths a lot?
Sanjay C Of course I use other Roland Cloud synthesizers! The ones I use most are: Roland D50, Juno 106, JV-1080, SRX-Studio, SRX World and the new XV-5080 is also very good. Sanjay C Korg Triton is a VST from another world. Don't forget Triton in your collection. Absolutely fantastic! For me, the best VST ever and look, I have others like Spectranonics Omnisphere, Serum, Kontakt with some good sound libraries but Korg triton is at the top of the tops! Absolutely incredible sound!
hi Sanjay, when you test the roland a88mk2 don't you find that the velocity curve provided are strange? i have to use the lightest one and i can't acces the smallet velocities,with the next velocity curve (a bit less light) i can access to all the velocities but then i have to put a lot of strengh to reach medium and highest velocities , the other curve are just useless (i was trained for classical piano with grand piano (steinway and yamaha) at school and upright piano at home
More integration, more ease in setups, a lot of fun....
Hey, your name is Roland! Do you have the inside info? 🤔
I'm excited for the MIDI 2.0.. IS ROLI seaboard is midi 2. 0 ready?
Remind me with the editing process on my reel to reel multitrack recorder 30 years ago. It was a nightmare!!!!!!
Haha...wow things have really advanced since then
I can't wait! Although, didn't they already anounce it at last year's NAMM? I remember an Adam Neely video from last year talking about it, I think?! So, what's you guess on how long it'll take to finally become a real thing? I know you kinda answered that in the video, saying that there's not really a way to know but take a guess? The reason I saks is, since we recently moved out of our small inner city appartment into a big house with lots of space, I was about to move up from my travel tested Novation Launchkey Mini to a full scale, start-your-home-recording-studio Arturia Keylab 88 Mk2. Quite an investment for me and something I am planning on getting a lot of use out of for at least a couple of years. Do you think waiting another year and maybe getting a potential "Keylab 88 Mk3" with MIDI 2.0 would make sense or do you think it's not really worth holding one's breath for now? Or would that be something that could be fixed with something like a firmware update if I bought the Arturia now?? I don't know how anything works, sorry :D Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks and cheers from Germany :)
Hi and thanks for the comment. I have a feeling that it will take a long time before everything (keyboards, synths, and DAWs) are compatible to really make good use out of MIDI 2.0. So I suggest you don't wait. Maybe get something small and cheap for now and see what news comes out. I'll keep you posted here.
@@SanjayC Thanks for the quick reply and the advice. I have been mulling it over in my head, too, and i think I might just get a new Launchkey Mini Mk3 for now to be up to date on tje road and my brother offered me his old Roland 88 key (don't remember the name now) for home. It's old, like I said, but it should give me everything I need (mainly weighted, full scale keys, expression/sustain pedals, mod wheels, the standards) to get started at home and give me time to follow the developments on the market. Thanks again and see ya in your next video :)
I'm hoping this means more MPE capable hardware and greater compatibility between MPE hardware and software and synths.
YES, I hope so too. And finally some Ableton MPE for us!
I do not expect it to be same revolution - thing like first instance of MIDI was - but yes, features are amazing and there is much more, on the tech side. BTW, you are aware that with advanced MIDI you CAN theoretically send 127x127 values of velocity? Each standard MIDI value can be split and assigned a value of 0/127 to each step.
Notifications squad ❤ . Watching the video. ❣
What's up Maslin? What are you looking forward to this year?
@@SanjayC lot of information bro I gotta watch again. I'm good sanjay. I'm entering stock music Licensing in this month and wanna get better at making country- pop music.
Wow! You’re killing it, man. That’s a good move. Corporate music for commercials and presentations makes money too.
@@SanjayC yes sanjay learning as much as I can.
I was just going to buy an arturia mk2 88 keys. Do you suggest i should wait now?
I don't think its worth waiting because lots of things need to be updated, not just keyboards. Its the DAWs, synth, etc. So it will be some time before everything is working together well. That's my guess.
Sanjay C Yeah Thats what i thought myself. Thanks!
I bought recently rise 49, s61 mk2 and push 2. What should I expect? They"ll work after their 2.0 daw updates? And what is gonna happen with hardware that don't have midi inputs like rise which has USB only or other stuff? And what will happen with daws upgrades? What if one day ableton or other daw make an upgrade for 2.0. The existing midi 1 devises will work properly or they will have problems?
Your current gear will be fine. MIDI 2.0 is backward compatible so your current devices will continue to work. I think all devices going forward will have some kind of usb connection rather than the old MIDI plug.
can i use yamaha p125 as midi controller ?
I hope that someday i can be just like you mr.sanjay!
You will be the best version of you, Josh. That’s even better. 😊
Excited 🥳
Save up for a new keyboard, right?
@@SanjayC yup ..can you make a video on Genesis pro vst and other cool vsts . Also share us your thoughts on the orba by artiphon
I'm just waiting for MPE to become a gold standard as well which would be oh so nice👌👌
Yes, and Ableton to add it too! What DAW do you use?
Will people need to replace their hardware in order to be midi 2.0 compliant? if there's unique hardware coming from th elikes of Roland for 2.0, what kinds of limitations will the previous generation of plugins/hardware run into in the world of 2.0?
I think you will have to, but I hope that's not the case. It would be nice if they can build in features with firmware updates or something.
Yussss but how does compatibility work and upgrades? It might be an issue to "downscale" for midi 1.0? Also I love the backing music
Thanks Varun! I wonder if they can add some features through firmware updates on old keyboards.
About using my old gear.... I have a CME UF8 88 Key controller keyboard that I love. USB Drivers have not seen the light of day since 2006 (XP). Win 10? Nope! It does have Midi out. Can you point me to learn to use all the features and controls via Midi? My Audio Interface has the Midi port and uses Firewire into my PC. DAW is ProTools 9 and Win 7 64 bit that runs PT 32 bit.. Thanks for any guidance!
Your keyboard should work just fine if you connect it through your audio interface. Should work right away. But if its not, maybe check your audio interface software.
@@SanjayC Will do! Thank you!
HI SANJAY I WATCHED YOUR VIDEO AND WHAT DO U MEAN BY THE A88 roland MK2 did not do anything special WITH THIS 2.0 mini ?? the reason why I asked, is because Im thinking about gettng a keybroad controller FOR MY DAW LOGICPRO X but I want one thats feels good under your hands when u play it SO CREATING SONGS FEELS EASY AND FUN as well as taking diffeent sounds from your daw, do u have any suggestions from the 500 to 900 us dollars range FOR KEYBROAD CONTROLLERS ??? thanks for your advice big fan mike
The Roland A88 has not come out with really special features yet. We have to wait to see what MIDI 2.0 will bring
Sounds promising... we'll see when and how. Meantime...when a hands on video on the Akai Forge with the latest firmware update ? :-)
Yeah, I need me some Akai gear. Do you have the Force?
@@SanjayC Unfortunately not...yet I've to save loooooots of money to get it ! :-D
Four hours late since I was listening to a friend's live stream from the Netherlands.
That's alright. You're came after. That's good enough! :-D
It's gonna get more easier !
Easier for everyone. What do you think about music creation bring so easy now? Lots of competition? Or do you think it’s still a difficult thing for most people to grasp?
@@SanjayC music production is getting easier day by day .... And yeah, more competition makes us do our best .... So it's good for us 😊
My Casio px5S keyboard has had high res midi option switch since it came out over 3 years ago so some stuff has been baked in for a while
Wow, they were thinking ahead. Nice!
What will this mean to me? I’m a guitarist and just starting to look into production, I have no gear as of yet but I am looking to obviously get an interface, a daw, headphones and maybe a midi controller and drumpad. Do I wait for a year to get the stuff or is what’s already out there gunna be compatible with MIDI 2.0? Long paragraph sorry but wouldn’t like wasting money and so on ahah
I don't think its worth waiting. It may take time before keyboards, drum pads, DAWs, plugins, and synths are all MIDI 2.0 and start working together to bring us these benefits. You may lose time that you could've been creating music. Get started now, especially with your DAW. If they add MIDI 2.0 features, you may just need to upgrade for free or at a small cost. An Audio Interface isn't going to be improved much by MIDI 2.0, so no reason to wait on that.
@@SanjayC thanks mate I’m looking to save right now and look when I have money as I’m still young but thanks on it soon as possible. Listen out for my stuff😉😂
Sanjay c can you please check out a distributer called dittomusic
I've got a Tascam US-428 that's become a paper weight because newer computer systems don't recognize it. Will this new midi system allow me to use it's knobs and buttons with modern computers and hardware?
Its hard to tell what will happen to specific old devices. But your old MIDI 1.0 devices will still work because MIDI 2.0 is backward compatible
Some of the videos are translated into Arabic, please keep translating Thank you
Hey, I'm glad you're using it. How is the translation. Any good?
I'd like to see MIDI 2.0 directly handle micro-tones rather than the cumbersome and inaccurate method now (note value + pitch bend). Wouldn't be hard if they increased the number of note values and shrank the interval represented by each step in value.
That's a good idea
Maybe that’s why Ableton hasn’t joined the MPE club yet? They were waiting for MIDI 2.0
Wouldn't that be a nice surprise if Ableton is the first to adopt MIDI 2.0?
@@SanjayC Def! I wonder how will that play with MPE devices. I love my Roli stuff and I put together a template with multi channels (from your video btw, thanks!) but I still find it less "plug & play" than it should be
I hope midi 2.0 will help ditch out all theses automation and expressions keys that you have to trigger in vsti and daw ... it is so time consuming to try to make a vsti sound real
Yes, it would be great to just PLAY more naturally. What VSTs do you use most?
I use mostly Kontakt and ezdrummer.
I like vsti synths too but playing with knobs isn't fun for me. I hope midi 2.0 will make automation painless
@@hleet That's why hardware synthesizers never get obsolete.
That’s a long time for a midi upgrade. Especially when we get a new usb standard every couple weeks. My question with midi 2.0 is the comparability with the old standard.
Metaldude, I read that MIDI 2.0 is backward compatible with MIDI 1.0
What kind of royalties these companies expect to get for using this standard ? Or is it completely free ? If not too bad, even if it is, complicated chips talks to some obscure protocol can destroy the modularity, increase prices and lower the longevity of devices you purchase, destroy competition. We observe this in every industry, for example you cannot control the LCD of your phone, because it uses an industry standard MIPI interface. They DO NOT sell MIPI chips to individuals or small companies at all...
I'm gonna purchase a MIDI keyboard for the first time
Should I go with arturia microlab or minilab
Minilab for sure. Love that keyboard.
Nice explanation. I need a new keyboard
Yeah me too....a MIDI 2.0 keyboard
Another great video, well explained. New tracks out on my soundcloud + spotify, Sanjay.
Sweet! I'll check it out. What are you working on next?
@@SanjayC A dubstep song called Counterfeit.
Also a trap album called 'VIP'.
Nice. I love that you’re always creating more. Hustle!
@@SanjayC Also, Trap Flow - ruclips.net/channel/UCvFaV_cKiu2ulk8NtVrC7gQ
Checked out 'Conquest'.
MIDI has to be the most perfectly executed tech advancement ever in music hardware. Over 30 years til V2?!?
New gear out this year! 2020 is gonna be nice!
Yeah, I'm waiting to see what's gonna come out!
It wasn’t lol
Hi Sanjay, I have an important question for future shopping: if I follow your link on your trusty computer I realize you only have 8GB RAM on your MacBook Pro..... how are you able to make any music at all when my own iMac with the same RAM-amount signals it is almost crashing only when I open my Logic Pro X-DAW? Leaving alone my plugIns which wait to be integrated? I was so stupid to upgrade to Catalina.... that is when all this shxx started.
hi Peter. Actually I have 16GB on my Macbook. But I had 8GB for a long time. Sometimes when I stack on a lot of plugins things can get slow. Or with a heavy plugin like Massive X. Even with my 16GB, things are slow sometimes. I haven't upgraded to Catalina yet. I'm scared!
@@SanjayC thank you for your honest answer. I googled others who complained numerously of slow performance only because the upgraded to Catalina. I plan to buy a windows PC with at least 32 GB or even 64 GB RAM and turn to Cubase 10 (Cubase is where I actually came from).
Hi Sanjaj C...I heard two jears about midi 2.0 and that's gona crash us music maker...what are you think? More expensive equipment, vst, au and because super Harmony music will be available everywere and super expensive controllers with fantastic possibility and...man I'm not shure what I'm feeling, what your predictions
Hi Igor. I think manufacturers will eventually need to keep the price affordable or no one is going to buy their gear. Or one company will start making cheaper gear, and other companies may have to compete.
@@SanjayC I hope, I heard about possibility of midi 2.0 and it's amazing but also scary in some way so I really hope that human feel be still in game
Hmm... I do wonder how many devices with USB-MIDI already out there (like Arturia and Novation, for example) just need a firmware update bring 2.0 capabilities to them. That would be a nice little money-saver, to say the least. :)
Yeah, I totally agree. I hope that is possible. If we have to buy new devices, its gonna suck.
I wasn’t sure where to ask this: What do you think of the MC-101?
Roland makes excellent gear, but I find that you can get a lot of those sounds in software instruments or samples now.
Sanjay C Thanks, what do you think of the stand alone aspect?
Sanjay C Thanks, what do you think of the stand alone aspect?