You'd be surprised by how right you are, many consider Rome to be in many ways a pilot for GoT. It was the first major R-rated, big-budget series by HBO that heavily focused on the sorts of politics and scandals of the private rives of powerful individuals. Without Rome, there would probably be no GoT. GoT exists because of the lessons learned from the production of Rome.
Agrippa is the good friend you for some reason have, but don't really deserve, the kind that helps you move without complainning or backs you in a fight you started and can't possibly win.
I love Antony's portrayal in Rome. He has a fair point about Octavian. The latter rose to power essentially by exploiting the triumphs of others with sheer cunning, whereas Antony had already proven himself to be a great commander and charismatic manipulator in politics. Then again, Octavian was eventually a superior statesman compared to the self-indulgent Antony
by this point rome was an empire beyond its limits to speak rome no longer needed generals to keep out the barbarians from italy as much as firm administrators who can keep everything going
Antony's folly was assuming that military success is the same as political success. Yes, Antony was the superior commander, the superior soldier, no doubt. But Antony had no idea how to translate his military victories into political victories.
@Association of Free People as a reader of Ancient History and that's the conclusion you came to, you make it sound like Caesar did it all and handed it to Octavian. Do you know what Octavian had to introduce to resettle the veterans after Philippi? It was complete revolution and came close to tearing Italy apart, land rights were sacrosanct in Ancient Rome and Octavian trampled them under foot turning Italy into bandit land. He was doing this while a famine was going on in Rome because of Sextus' blockade. Next thing he had to put down a rebellion by Antony's brother and wife. It was absolute chaos and Octavian narrowly escaped being killed by a starving mob at one point. He also had to keep his army on his side, an army now who knew how important they were and sometimes had to be negotiated with before fighting. He also had to keep the western governers on his side for an eventual showdown with Antony. Octavian walked an absolute tight wire, he was also at the heart of Rome where memory of the Republic was still raw, and he had to trample laws underfoot. He was actually hated at this time because he was spilling more roman blood than Sulla. The whole city could have exploded at any minute. It took him about the same time it took Caesar to conquer Gaul to get the West in order and set it up for another civil war. But obviously as a voracious reader of Ancient History you missed all this as you've come to the conclusion 95 per cent was done. You sound like a fuckin idiot do you know that???
+Armin Wessler You still repeat the same rubbish. Maybe you are not aware of that but this is exactly the opposite to what real historians say. Marcus Antonius was not the most successful politician exactly because he was an excellent commander and politics is not so simple as the battlefield.
+Association of Free People All that you refer to is based upon the tv show. ROME was great from the scenic point of view and accurate as far as Roman life in the first century BC but not historically accurate. All the scenes you refer to are fictitious. "Quintus" Pompey did not exist. Although it is true, that Antony ordered killing the son of Pompeius, Sextus Pompeius, many years later. He was a kid when his father died and later reunited with the pirates his father fought against to fight against Antony and Octavian Caesar. Octavius, after the adoption -Octavian Caesar was not in Rome at the time of Caesar's death. He had to receive Caesar's succession because he was his legal successor by family ties. Besides him were mentioned: another nephew Quintus Pedius, his cousin, or Decimus Brutus, Caesar's assassin. Antony was a far relative. What was never said in popular films etc, Octavius grew up with a stepfather, Lucius Marcius Philippus who was a fierce Optimate linked with Marcus Porcius Cato (who was Philippus's son-in-law married with his daughter Marcia). That implies, that even being Caesar's protegee, he was very well aware of strict republican values. He could not, as a Roman, refuse Caesar's succession, as well as he must have accomplished Caesar's will and give away the money. Me too, I do not like the scene when Octavius(before adoption) is depicted as the "saviour of the Republic" after Caesar's death - it was all Antony's job, but we cannot say, that Octavian(after adoption) was "greedy" as well as we cannot say Antony was incompetent or "instinctive animal". Unfortunately, these scenes are ones of the least historically accurate in the series. What I mean, someone, who spent his fortune on public works, cannot be called greedy, someone who was a military commander in the legions, where every single soldier knew his place, cannot be called "instinctive animal", even considering the legion of his lovers.
The actor who plays Octavian could not have been better cast- he barely blinks, which increases his coldness. And he has hardened with age compared to when he was a child. Amazing actor/acting.
Actually, I always hated this guy. He is a good actor, but it's how he/the script warped the younger version, which I liked so much bec he was so sympathetic. I guess I should say I don't like this portrayal that this actor happens to be doing (and admittedly doing well).
@@danielr3149 I understand but even younger Octavian started to show sociopathic tendencies (think of when he hits his slave or when he orders Pullo to torture and then kill the man who sleeps with Niobe when Lucius is away). So to me, it makes sense that the adult Octavian, who has witnessed quite a lot of violence would himself be cold AF.
@@danielr3149 Well, there is an account of Octavian gouging out the eyes of a defeated adversary during the civil wars, although I do not remember the source at the moment. Even taking into account the source's author might have been hostile to Octavian, it shows, that he was at least perceived to be able to commit heinous acts during these times. Also, given the proscriptions he issued with the other victors of the war against Caesar's murderers, it is safe to say, that, at least on his way to power, he was not sympathetic, but cold and ruthless. So, the actor probably gets him right, as unfortunate as this is, since I have sympathies for Octavian, or, rather, Augustus, myself - even though I prefer Vespasian, Hadrian and Antoninus Pius.
Love how Octavian just decided to toy with Mark Anthony that Octavian "Defeated" him in battle. Mark was left so annoyed by that fact but gets back at Octavian that hes still screwing around with Octavian's mother lol! This was was truly Gold. Same level of acting as Game of Thrones. What a wonderful show this was. I wish they kept it going.
Probably the most accurate portrayal of Mark Antony ever on film. This series would be worth watching for James Purefoy's performance alone, but so many others were pitch perfect too, including both Octavians.
Accurate? Eehhh, maybe. Some things dead on, but portrayals. He existed, he did things that are provable and like you stated there are written passed down accounts. We know he said things from writings etc. and was there/existed like we know Jesus existed and we know a LOT of what he said. We know Julius existed and a lot of what he said. But this show takes (and it has too) a LOT of privilege's, like this scene. I always watch these with enjoyment but. Accurate portrayal. Ehh can't really say that because you don't know. Accurate "feeling" of the descriptions about him I think. Not trying to argue but just comment. All good and we're both enjoying it eh
Antony allows himself to get trolled so easily. But he was right. Octavian didn’t beat him, he used the other two generals as meat shields and just survived.
@J J correct. many times caesar is described as riding to the front lines when his men were wavering.such a beast. but we gotta admit augustus later kinda fought too not in the same manner as caesar but he tried.
The show portrayal isn't very accurate. When Caesar died, Octavian was still near Greece and all the political maneuvers were made by Antony. Antony in records seems disinterested in political bickering and prefer to handle things with a hammer. But, because of his hard headedness, Antony was able to rally the Caesarian faction post Ides of March and subsequently led them to victory. Octavian is the superior politician and an unmistakably cruel tyrant, but a superior tyrant to Antony, whose passion for adventures outweigh his political investment which led to his downfall. He could have retire peacefully, Cleopatra on the other hand pulled most of the strings that pushed him over the edge. Shame such a man would meet his end with poison.
All these years later after this beautiful show came to a conclusion, I still find myself watching either clips or entire episodes constantly. It is quite possibly the most beautiful series I’ve ever watched 5 dozen times.😉
Right at the beginning, when Octavian's eyes just snap up and stare straight ahead at the sound of Antony's voice. He just switches the fuck on and is in immediate analytical mode.
even there anthony at this time was still doing better so its still a true statement in the context of this scene when just reducing it to politics@@user-xc4ui8wn3l
Well you kinda gotta tell that story cuz Augustus was about purity and sex was a no no with the young tyrant but I still love the Julian's but Augustus was crazy
@@pride2184 Sex was not a no no lmao.He made laws about not having sex in public.Pretty much the same rules we have today lol.Sex was okay as long as it was within marriage or two engaged individuals.Don't be so dramatic.Augustus was never crazy either clearly you don't know history he ushered in Roman empire most prosperous period ever "Pax Romana"
Haha this series is golden, you always get subtle hindsights when watching this for a second time. Anthony unconsciously tried to throw octavian off balance by insulting him, but somehow the "boy" managed to consciously redirect the canon ball at him.. and it worked!
"Question after question. Makes a very poor conversation" It cracks me up everytime :D Also Octavian's psychological pressure tactic "do you deny it?" is really useful. I use that in real life.
I like how asking, "Do you deny it?" pretty much implies that the fact had already been established, instead of letting a given answer from someone establish it.
Ahhh....we've all been there. I think I can speak for all of us when I say how frustrating it is to have been sold lions that simply will not pull your chariot.
Probably very few people realize what amount of money they are considering while discussing the “acquisition” of 6 lions. According to the sources Antony was terribly lavish, reckless an wastefully extravagant. From Diocletian’s edict on maximum prices (Edictum De Pretiis Rerum Venalium) 3 centuries later we know f.ex. that 10 eggs shall cost no more than 10 denari, a marble worker would get 60 d. for a day of work , a leopard cost 120.000 d. and 1 lion - 150 000 d. So 6 lions were worth circa 900 000 d. Roman Lamborghini or Bentley?;) .
Hang on, the Edict was written in a time of hyperinflation. 10 denari for 10 eggs is a hell of a lot, given that in around 1AD, a denarius was the expect amount of a day's labour, presumably something mundane like picking fruit, plowing fields, etc. IIRC the price of a day's labour in 301 AD was 25 denarii. If we use 25x the cost, it's actually only about 36,000d for 6 lions, at 6k a lion. That's about 16 years of non-stop labour for a working pleb for each lion, so it is still an awful lot of money.
Sargon of Akkad You are right of course, all I wanted, was to give a sort of comparison. Actually it was very expensive to catch the wild animals and drag them alive to Rome by ships.
In return we have served Rome, ruled well, led her armies to glory! It has cost us dearly despite the love of the gods, but sometimes the hatred of men is stronger :))
@Popescu René nah bro You skipped the part : Our dead lie in many graves, put there by Carthaginian swords, and a few Greek ones. Even Roman blades have taken Scipii lives, that, we do not forget, or forgive. So, now our time has come. The spirits of the dead cry out for blood. I will lead our family in this undertaking, the gods will grant us vengeance. :)
Popescu René played total war from lets say 2013-2017.....there wont be a strategy game as great as Rome Total war 1.....but stopped playing on the computer anyway cause i wanted to spend more time with sports and friends...so never really tried rome total war 2 with the new Units and campaign mods....:))
I would have assumed Antony knew it had to have been Posca. He refused to give him a cut when he asked, and then the word gets out to Octavian. It's always someone who was in the room when said thing happened that spilled the beans. Other than this instance, I don't seem to recall Antony being portrayed as slow thinking, perhaps the writers simply didn't want that kind of an end for Posca.
Klaudiosable That's assuming there's an actual brain in that skull of Antony, which obviously there is no one, and something else does the thinking instead lol.
+Agent1W I would advise to read some historical contemporary authors (e.g. Julius Caesar) as well as the later works by Plutarch, Appian or Cassius Dio. Dramatized stories showing somebody's picturesque down fall are not the best source of knowledge.
But why shouldn't some of Herod's men be buyable in Anthony's mind? In the show the only thing he said about jews was something negative about loyalty. I think because of Timon. Pretty sure he would buy this lie. Okay, yes Posca had a motive but...hell it's Posca and he knows him for years. He served caesar and he served him for years. Give this man a break. He only trusts Posca while fucking Octavian's mother. Over...and over...and over again.
@@Rohit-tp7qx but the agrippa served under octavian's army so yeah octavian won,it was a battle determined by the armies and octavian's army won so therefore he won basically against Mark Anthony
I love watching stuff like this with the subtitles on because I it makes me want to learn new words. "Pedantry" at 1:38. I never heard that word before in my life. It means excessive concern with minor details and rules. This show is educational and fun to watch!
Such an accurate portrayal (based on the writings we have). Octavian may have been cold, but it was an absolutely necessary persona to adopt to rise and meet the challenges present after Caesar's assassination.
The portrayal of Antony is one of the highlights of the show albeit a bit dramatic. The actor playing Augustus takes historical record and makes it real though. Cold, calculating, brilliant and handsome. The man made the Empire, everyone afterwards could only go down
THE GADFLY GANG Except for the fact that this was not how everyone perceived Octavian. His actions are certainly calculating, cold and ruthless, but he came across as a model citizen to everyone. I mean, he sold it so well that the people actually believed this. So I thought his portrayal was a bit too sinister here.
@@simonphoenix3789 yeah those who are alive say that about him remember he made the proscriptions and then became sole ruler with the backing of like over 30 legions of course you would speak good about the guy
But it wasnt! Mark Antony was not bedding Atia, mother of Augustus. She was a conservative noble woman, older than Antony, living outside of Rome. They put this crap in because American audiences love anything with illicit sex. Antony had no problem with the ladies that's a fact but a regular lay of Augustus mother--not even!
@@taroman7100 why sex with Atia is illicit and sex with other women is not? Atia was not married at that moment and Antony was not married during this scene. What makes their relationship illicit?
It's hilarious how Antony keeps looking and talking to Maecenas during the argument as if he's somehow going to persuade Octavian's chief lackey to take his side or laugh at his jokes.
While HBO Rome is in my all-time Top 5 series, I've always thought that the series was too harsh on Octavian. He necessarily had to rely on cunning to survive, nothing wrong with that, and he later proved to be temperate, fair, and even occasionally magnanimous. He was austere himself (a good trait in a man with unlimited power) and his reign was probably the high point of Roman history. Perhaps a few hints of that humanity would have enhanced his character.
This show made me root for Octavian. I didn't like at the end when they made it out that he was so mean to Anthony, or his family; after the repulsive things they did. Especially Atia acting like a victim when Octavian sent her to Egypt knowing she'd be rejected.
It would have been fascinating to see Octavian portrayed in the fullness of his power and adulthood, if they'd ever gotten to make the planned later series (set around the birth of Jesus). I feel like the series leaves us viewers with an image of an arrogant and ill-adjusted youth, growing into ambition that is foisted on him; it's easy to forget that this man ruled one of the greatest empires ever built for FORTY years, and did it so well that a number of concepts in western culture literally take their name from him.
Fast tracking the series did hurt Season 2, especially Octavian's transformation. We needed to see his progression because his change into an intelligent, cold and mild tempted leader was so drastic.
Watching the actor playing Octavian corpsing; without blinking or twitching his jawline, was pretty damn impressive. James’s Purefoy’s depiction of Marc Antony was so entertaining and hilarious.
Antony: Those lions you sold me, wont pull chariots. They just walk around eating and not pulling chariots. You sold me queer lions. I want my money back.
James Purefoy's Antony is the best performance of his career. Arrogant, proud, avaricious, condescending hatred toward Octavian that grows and grows over 2 seasons.
Marc Antony's a character television/film has portrayed in soooooooo many different ways... makes it more interesting I s'pose, but leaves you wondering that much more, what was the real Marc Antony like? Same with Caesar.
Excellent military commander, nonchalant womanizer, clever politician, on the contrary to what some try to imply, extravagant and witty, honest and honourable, according to the account given only by Plutarch, very human in comparison to Julius Caesare or Octavian, surrounded by most powerful women living in his times, who, by the way, were his wives. Not known for any cruel excess popular this time. Betrayed by all his friends and the woman, he loved.
He was a sick weak idiot, who lost commitment of his Macedonian Legions cause he needed to set "example"for something stupied, betrayer, false, not human at all, suggest you don't believe all the crap you read here b all these so called "hisorian four eyed ginger idiots"
Not a good commander? What about leading the army in Philippi battle? What about his early successes in Egypt (before he fought in Gaul), what about countless battles as Ceasar's commander? What about his policy Rome after Caesar's death? Batlle of Naulochos? What about conquering and uniting Armenia (today's Eastern Turkey, Georgia, Armenia)? He was "very brutal" comparing to whom? To Sulla or Gaius Marius, or maybe Pompeius Magnus called otherwise "the young butcher"? He was public drunk as any others but only about him, Cicero wrote 14 speeches. Strangely, Cicero forgave certain Celius Rufus exactly the same that he condemned Antony for. Do you know, what about the death of Caesar someone said, that he (Caesar) was the only sober person in the senate house? Do you know, why Antony lost his war against the Parthians? You probably watch too much movies based upon very biased work of Shakespeare. Do you really think that he became Caesar's second in command because he was his relative?
No Anthony lost but not to Octavian who was left behind to guard the camp but to the consuls Hirtius and Pansa who (fortunately for Octavian) died in the battle. I wouldn't wonder if Octavian had bribed their guards to kill them when the battle was won.
lol at the end.
antony is straight out of middle school.
and at the end he die like a fool betrayed by his new wife (karma)
Steve its good then it is said only in TV show.
@@CigarRegal yeah no shit mate
and in the end Augustus is the one that stand tall
@@Quanbe77 "Died like a fool" I totally disagree.
LMAO Antony was gold in this series. Stole every scene.
Crucially, though, he never stole a scene from Caesar in series one 👌
@@flankspeed Facts.
Antony was 20,000 pounds of gold *
Like Jason Isaacs in The Death of Stalin
Antony stole 20000 pounds of gold
Do I look like a fucking date merchant?
***** Haha, I said the same thing to my girlfriend when we were watching "They pulled a Brutus"
***** "Olly"
+Gandalf The Grey The difference being I was upset with Caesar fell. "For the Watch"
If your cousin can pass for an oyster merchant, why not.
King Jon Stark
Man, rome was the OG game of thrones
@Doeray I think he meant the series more than he meant actual rome.
@Doeray Yeah War of the Roses right? At least the first book.
You'd be surprised by how right you are, many consider Rome to be in many ways a pilot for GoT. It was the first major R-rated, big-budget series by HBO that heavily focused on the sorts of politics and scandals of the private rives of powerful individuals. Without Rome, there would probably be no GoT. GoT exists because of the lessons learned from the production of Rome.
I think that someone from the cast of Rome also said ”they took our show”
Yeah wish this got a few more seasons. There season three and four plans looked great
"Do you deny it?" seems to be Octavian's favorite question.
It’s a good one. People seem often more willing or able to avoid a question than actually lie outright.
I have appropriated it - it's very effective.
But if the person is pretty timid, they can be intimidated into saying nothing even if they're innocent.
@@JGalt-em4xu Oh well. Timidity is best punished anyway, lest it be tacitly encouraged and lead to a weaker and less honest society
Lol
@CHURCHISAWESUM I'm sorry but that sounds pretty edgey and cringe. Are you ok?
Antony's catchphrase: "I need good men"
Octavian's catchphrases: "Do you deny it?" And "Agrippa will see to it"
agrippa carried octavian
😆
@Dan he gets to sleep with Octavia, though I don't think there's a scene of the two of them like there is with Anthony and Cleopatra
Agrippa is the good friend you for some reason have, but don't really deserve, the kind that helps you move without complainning or backs you in a fight you started and can't possibly win.
Octavian would've been nothing without Agrippa
I love Antony's portrayal in Rome. He has a fair point about Octavian. The latter rose to power essentially by exploiting the triumphs of others with sheer cunning, whereas Antony had already
proven himself to be a great commander and charismatic manipulator in politics. Then again, Octavian was eventually a superior statesman compared to the self-indulgent Antony
by this point rome was an empire beyond its limits to speak rome no longer needed generals to keep out the barbarians from italy as much as firm administrators who can keep everything going
Antony's folly was assuming that military success is the same as political success. Yes, Antony was the superior commander, the superior soldier, no doubt. But Antony had no idea how to translate his military victories into political victories.
@Association of Free People as a reader of Ancient History and that's the conclusion you came to, you make it sound like Caesar did it all and handed it to Octavian. Do you know what Octavian had to introduce to resettle the veterans after Philippi? It was complete revolution and came close to tearing Italy apart, land rights were sacrosanct in Ancient Rome and Octavian trampled them under foot turning Italy into bandit land. He was doing this while a famine was going on in Rome because of Sextus' blockade. Next thing he had to put down a rebellion by Antony's brother and wife. It was absolute chaos and Octavian narrowly escaped being killed by a starving mob at one point. He also had to keep his army on his side, an army now who knew how important they were and sometimes had to be negotiated with before fighting. He also had to keep the western governers on his side for an eventual showdown with Antony. Octavian walked an absolute tight wire, he was also at the heart of Rome where memory of the Republic was still raw, and he had to trample laws underfoot. He was actually hated at this time because he was spilling more roman blood than Sulla. The whole city could have exploded at any minute. It took him about the same time it took Caesar to conquer Gaul to get the West in order and set it up for another civil war. But obviously as a voracious reader of Ancient History you missed all this as you've come to the conclusion 95 per cent was done. You sound like a fuckin idiot do you know that???
+Armin Wessler You still repeat the same rubbish. Maybe you are not aware of that but this is exactly the opposite to what real historians say. Marcus Antonius was not the most successful politician exactly because he was an excellent commander and politics is not so simple as the battlefield.
+Association of Free People All that you refer to is based upon the tv show. ROME was great from the scenic point of view and accurate as far as Roman life in the first century BC but not historically accurate. All the scenes you refer to are fictitious. "Quintus" Pompey did not exist. Although it is true, that Antony ordered killing the son of Pompeius, Sextus Pompeius, many years later. He was a kid when his father died and later reunited with the pirates his father fought against to fight against Antony and Octavian Caesar.
Octavius, after the adoption -Octavian Caesar was not in Rome at the time of Caesar's death. He had to receive Caesar's succession because he was his legal successor by family ties. Besides him were mentioned: another nephew Quintus Pedius, his cousin, or Decimus Brutus, Caesar's assassin. Antony was a far relative. What was never said in popular films etc, Octavius grew up with a stepfather, Lucius Marcius Philippus who was a fierce Optimate linked with Marcus Porcius Cato (who was Philippus's son-in-law married with his daughter Marcia). That implies, that even being Caesar's protegee, he was very well aware of strict republican values. He could not, as a Roman, refuse Caesar's succession, as well as he must have accomplished Caesar's will and give away the money. Me too, I do not like the scene when Octavius(before adoption) is depicted as the "saviour of the Republic" after Caesar's death - it was all Antony's job, but we cannot say, that Octavian(after adoption) was "greedy" as well as we cannot say Antony was incompetent or "instinctive animal".
Unfortunately, these scenes are ones of the least historically accurate in the series.
What I mean, someone, who spent his fortune on public works, cannot be called greedy, someone who was a military commander in the legions, where every single soldier knew his place, cannot be called "instinctive animal", even considering the legion of his lovers.
0:35 Antony is wrong. He should have kept counting the decimals forever, and thus Math would have saved the Republic.
Ahem "or thereabouts"
Nope. Octavian would have cut him off with "two-thirds".
He's a clever one, that one.
Yeah that .66 recurring is where the negotiations broke down
Do you take Octavian for a fool?
@@satriaputrapratama4703 question after question... makes for a very poor thread.
Anthony is a 12 year old COD player
No, because difference is that he really is...
Worse. Way worse.
more like a europa universalis player looool
Call of duty? Didn't know what u meant till the end lmao
@@philmuda a man of culture
The actor who plays Octavian could not have been better cast- he barely blinks, which increases his coldness. And he has hardened with age compared to when he was a child. Amazing actor/acting.
Well that's because the older octavius is played by another actor ;)
@@nemo99nemo83 Well that's obvious..I'm just saying that the older actor really conveys a coldness that becomes more prominent as the character ages.
Actually, I always hated this guy. He is a good actor, but it's how he/the script warped the younger version, which I liked so much bec he was so sympathetic. I guess I should say I don't like this portrayal that this actor happens to be doing (and admittedly doing well).
@@danielr3149 I understand but even younger Octavian started to show sociopathic tendencies (think of when he hits his slave or when he orders Pullo to torture and then kill the man who sleeps with Niobe when Lucius is away). So to me, it makes sense that the adult Octavian, who has witnessed quite a lot of violence would himself be cold AF.
@@danielr3149 Well, there is an account of Octavian gouging out the eyes of a defeated adversary during the civil wars, although I do not remember the source at the moment. Even taking into account the source's author might have been hostile to Octavian, it shows, that he was at least perceived to be able to commit heinous acts during these times. Also, given the proscriptions he issued with the other victors of the war against Caesar's murderers, it is safe to say, that, at least on his way to power, he was not sympathetic, but cold and ruthless. So, the actor probably gets him right, as unfortunate as this is, since I have sympathies for Octavian, or, rather, Augustus, myself - even though I prefer Vespasian, Hadrian and Antoninus Pius.
james purefoy as marc antony...a masterclass
What a great casting this was.
Nobody else coulda played that role. The casting was perfect.
2:52 on this day in history Marcus Antonius inspired countless epic gamers
Marc Antony had a gamer moment
Well he actually did fuck his mom lol
@@wikipediaintellectual7088 not really because he was fucking his mother for real 😂
"First your mom" joke in history
I wish they would bring this series back . There would be many viewers .
yeah but few centuries later... when rome was falling or when Aurelian saved it from falling
@Eric Zombrow Early Got> Rome /Late Got
D'lish Donut let’s not get ahead of ourselves
@D'lish Donut Game of Thrones was great up until the last season and a half
@@yawgmoth6568 GoT was weak the moment after its first season
Love how Octavian just decided to toy with Mark Anthony that Octavian "Defeated" him in battle. Mark was left so annoyed by that fact but gets back at Octavian that hes still screwing around with Octavian's mother lol! This was was truly Gold. Same level of acting as Game of Thrones. What a wonderful show this was. I wish they kept it going.
It sounded more like a petulant whine to me. Like a spoilt child.
GOT doesnt get to Rome's shoe in regards to acting skill
Probably the most accurate portrayal of Mark Antony ever on film. This series would be worth watching for James Purefoy's performance alone, but so many others were pitch perfect too, including both Octavians.
u were there when mark anthony was alive back 2000 years ago?
@@nonye0 Well it's an accurate depiction of how the sources describe him, some of whom (e.g. Cicero) actually were eyewitnesses.
Accurate? Eehhh, maybe. Some things dead on, but portrayals. He existed, he did things that are provable and like you stated there are written passed down accounts. We know he said things from writings etc. and was there/existed like we know Jesus existed and we know a LOT of what he said. We know Julius existed and a lot of what he said.
But this show takes (and it has too) a LOT of privilege's, like this scene. I always watch these with enjoyment but. Accurate portrayal. Ehh can't really say that because you don't know. Accurate "feeling" of the descriptions about him I think.
Not trying to argue but just comment. All good and we're both enjoying it eh
Nobody else coulda played Mark Antony.
We have no idea if it would be accurate or not. It lives up to the mythology of him though.
Antony allows himself to get trolled so easily. But he was right. Octavian didn’t beat him, he used the other two generals as meat shields and just survived.
"Caesar didnt beat anyone he just used his legions and commanders as meat shields"
I think it was a mutual trolling in this case.
@@ehotto
*Hahas in Munda*
@@ehotto stupid comparison really.
@J J correct. many times caesar is described as riding to the front lines when his men were wavering.such a beast. but we gotta admit augustus later kinda fought too not in the same manner as caesar but he tried.
2:18 is the best performance yet. The change in the inflection of his voice, the wrinkling of his nose. Damn that is an amazing expression.
One hell of a comeback there M.A. LOLOL
He actually is banging his mom lol
As much I dislike Antony, he totally nailed this exchange with his last shot.
you dislike Antony? guess what he doesnot give a shit
@@eminmammadov8863 Did I say he did?
Irrelevant comment is irrelevant.
The show portrayal isn't very accurate. When Caesar died, Octavian was still near Greece and all the political maneuvers were made by Antony. Antony in records seems disinterested in political bickering and prefer to handle things with a hammer. But, because of his hard headedness, Antony was able to rally the Caesarian faction post Ides of March and subsequently led them to victory. Octavian is the superior politician and an unmistakably cruel tyrant, but a superior tyrant to Antony, whose passion for adventures outweigh his political investment which led to his downfall. He could have retire peacefully, Cleopatra on the other hand pulled most of the strings that pushed him over the edge. Shame such a man would meet his end with poison.
@@lc9245 Thank you for the information.
Personally I think he was hilarious in this 😁
All these years later after this beautiful show came to a conclusion, I still find myself watching either clips or entire episodes constantly. It is quite possibly the most beautiful series I’ve ever watched 5 dozen times.😉
the shots, the music, the performances... everything about Rome was perfect. I will never ever forgive HBO for cancelling it.
@@deathstruck159and I'm ashamed to have known GoT better than this masterpiece
Right at the beginning, when Octavian's eyes just snap up and stare straight ahead at the sound of Antony's voice. He just switches the fuck on and is in immediate analytical mode.
I've learned so many words watching Rome lol
"Agrandise"
"Letch"
"Usurious Jews"
"Pedantry"
Sordid coupling
"You have never defeated me in ANYTHING".
Man, I really felt that line. If only it ended up being true.
No, you wouldnt want that. The West would not have developed into America.
it was. octavian here relied on is friends to do the fighting for him. anthony led by example instead of hiding behind skirts.
@@jacavanheesch4593 Octavian beat Antony in politics. That much is true
even there anthony at this time was still doing better so its still a true statement in the context of this scene when just reducing it to politics@@user-xc4ui8wn3l
0:40 "quick mafs"
Narayan Kurup every day man on da BLOCC
@@Marcus1Arelius3 smoke trees
2:52 is probably what made him want to kill Antony even more later on among the other reasons.
in this show only)
Real Atia never used to sleep with Anthony, indeed she was pious and humble woman
@@rustemzholdybalin6210 historians have different views of her.The truth is we will never know as history is always distorted
@@taskforceknight9336 What different view?
Well you kinda gotta tell that story cuz Augustus was about purity and sex was a no no with the young tyrant but I still love the Julian's but Augustus was crazy
@@pride2184 Sex was not a no no lmao.He made laws about not having sex in public.Pretty much the same rules we have today lol.Sex was okay as long as it was within marriage or two engaged individuals.Don't be so dramatic.Augustus was never crazy either clearly you don't know history he ushered in Roman empire most prosperous period ever "Pax Romana"
Greatest series ever aired. So disappointed there wasn't a third season. Titus Pullo and Lucious Vorenous are mad ladz.
They made the show.
Yeah it was truly epic. Thirteen!!!!!!!
Haha this series is golden, you always get subtle hindsights when watching this for a second time. Anthony unconsciously tried to throw octavian off balance by insulting him, but somehow the "boy" managed to consciously redirect the canon ball at him.. and it worked!
"Question after question. Makes a very poor conversation" It cracks me up everytime :D
Also Octavian's psychological pressure tactic "do you deny it?" is really useful. I use that in real life.
ok Caesar Sanctum Orbis Augustus
I like how asking, "Do you deny it?" pretty much implies that the fact had already been established, instead of letting a given answer from someone establish it.
Octavian was not well liked by those the knew him well but he was worthy to be called Caesar.
@@Agent1W exactly. Puts the other person under pressure right away
What if they say yes i deny it.
2:54 Aaaaaaaaaaa, so that's where Call of Duty kids got that line from.
Mega The Chieftain
Applause.
Major applause.
Ahhh....we've all been there. I think I can speak for all of us when I say how frustrating it is to have been sold lions that simply will not pull your chariot.
Yeah, thats fucking bullshit
All I want in life, is a prequel series followng Caesar in Gaul
That one village he could never defeat?
@@worldcomicsreview354 You seen my golden sickle?
@@jonbaxter2254 It's under that large stone.
Watching mark Anthony in this series was just amazing. Loved the character
Probably very few people realize what amount of money they are considering while discussing the “acquisition” of 6 lions. According to the sources Antony was terribly lavish, reckless an wastefully extravagant. From Diocletian’s edict on maximum prices (Edictum De Pretiis Rerum Venalium) 3 centuries later we know f.ex. that 10 eggs shall cost no more than 10 denari, a marble worker would get 60 d. for a day of work , a leopard cost 120.000 d. and 1 lion - 150 000 d. So 6 lions were worth circa 900 000 d. Roman Lamborghini or Bentley?;) .
Hang on, the Edict was written in a time of hyperinflation. 10 denari for 10 eggs is a hell of a lot, given that in around 1AD, a denarius was the expect amount of a day's labour, presumably something mundane like picking fruit, plowing fields, etc. IIRC the price of a day's labour in 301 AD was 25 denarii. If we use 25x the cost, it's actually only about 36,000d for 6 lions, at 6k a lion. That's about 16 years of non-stop labour for a working pleb for each lion, so it is still an awful lot of money.
Sargon of Akkad You are right of course, all I wanted, was to give a sort of comparison. Actually it was very expensive to catch the wild animals and drag them alive to Rome by ships.
Sargon of Akkad Sargon spotted!
+Sargon of Akkad, You must have a collection of Denari.
I wonder how much they're worth in today's money.
True Roman Cat + Some people today pay as much as half a million dollars for trophy hunting a lion
2:51 When you've lost the argument.
I mean the whole idea of Lions pulling chariot 😅😂🤣😭 Antony was Savage!!!
2:01 "A proud boast, but true all the same!" --Roman House Scipii quote
In return we have served Rome, ruled well, led her armies to glory! It has cost us dearly despite the love of the gods, but sometimes the hatred of men is stronger :))
@Popescu René nah bro You skipped the part : Our dead lie in many graves, put there by Carthaginian swords, and a few Greek ones. Even Roman blades have taken Scipii lives, that, we do not forget, or forgive. So, now our time has come. The spirits of the dead cry out for blood. I will lead our family in this undertaking, the gods will grant us vengeance. :)
Popescu René played total war from lets say 2013-2017.....there wont be a strategy game as great as Rome Total war 1.....but stopped playing on the computer anyway cause i wanted to spend more time with sports and friends...so never really tried rome total war 2 with the new Units and campaign mods....:))
Julii have better speech
I would have assumed Antony knew it had to have been Posca. He refused to give him a cut when he asked, and then the word gets out to Octavian. It's always someone who was in the room when said thing happened that spilled the beans. Other than this instance, I don't seem to recall Antony being portrayed as slow thinking, perhaps the writers simply didn't want that kind of an end for Posca.
antony played his hand well but Agrippa was the better general.
Imagine if he would have found out Posca told him. It would have been messy
Klaudiosable That's assuming there's an actual brain in that skull of Antony, which obviously there is no one, and something else does the thinking instead lol.
+Agent1W I would advise to read some historical contemporary authors (e.g. Julius Caesar) as well as the later works by Plutarch, Appian or Cassius Dio. Dramatized stories showing somebody's picturesque down fall are not the best source of knowledge.
But why shouldn't some of Herod's men be buyable in Anthony's mind? In the show the only thing he said about jews was something negative about loyalty. I think because of Timon. Pretty sure he would buy this lie. Okay, yes Posca had a motive but...hell it's Posca and he knows him for years. He served caesar and he served him for years. Give this man a break. He only trusts Posca while fucking Octavian's mother. Over...and over...and over again.
Klaudiosable where is the scene of Marc Antony where he orders the army to stop
so he can walk to the side of the road to have sex with farm girl?
How many times in the series did Antony wanna kill Posca anyhow?
Those are some cold eyes.
Anglomachian And always seeking to borrow the glory of others.
Isabella H He was good at that! One of the first great propagandists! Goebbels would've been proud!
coke
Indeed, light blue eyes are kind of frightening, it looks like the person is piercing through your soul or something.
@@victuz Like Ion "Watcher" Hazzikostas, the WoW director. I cringe from watching him talk because of it.
“You’re right, defeating you was no achievement”.
“You? Defeat me?”
yeah because Agrippa had all the achivement lol
"He never even left his tent"
Ah yes, well, so even with one less soldier, he defeated you.
The battle was won by agrippa not octavian
he knew he was defeated he was just throwing back insults. it obviously hurt his ego (anthony) hahaha
@@Rohit-tp7qx but the agrippa served under octavian's army so yeah octavian won,it was a battle determined by the armies and octavian's army won so therefore he won basically against Mark Anthony
@@matthewlee4697 except he didnt most romans mocked octavian for being cowardly wimp in battle he always ran and hide from battle
I love watching stuff like this with the subtitles on because I it makes me want to learn new words. "Pedantry" at 1:38. I never heard that word before in my life. It means excessive concern with minor details and rules. This show is educational and fun to watch!
how old were you when you saw it? Pedantry is not an obscure word at all
@@rao8559 never heard anyone use that word in a conversation with me in my entire life.
Seems pretty obscure enough for me.
Such an accurate portrayal (based on the writings we have). Octavian may have been cold, but it was an absolutely necessary persona to adopt to rise and meet the challenges present after Caesar's assassination.
It was either gonna be him or Marky Marc.
I haven't seen this show in years and I forgot how great a character purefoy's marc antony was.
The portrayal of Antony is one of the highlights of the show albeit a bit dramatic. The actor playing Augustus takes historical record and makes it real though. Cold, calculating, brilliant and handsome. The man made the Empire, everyone afterwards could only go down
THE GADFLY GANG Except for the fact that this was not how everyone perceived Octavian. His actions are certainly calculating, cold and ruthless, but he came across as a model citizen to everyone. I mean, he sold it so well that the people actually believed this. So I thought his portrayal was a bit too sinister here.
I mean there were a few good Emperors after Octavian.
@@simonphoenix3789 yeah those who are alive say that about him remember he made the proscriptions and then became sole ruler with the backing of like over 30 legions of course you would speak good about the guy
1:15 Hahaha that stare
Antony was all fire but fire burns out eventually. Octavian was a very intellectual cold calculating ice burg. No wonder he trumped Antony in the end.
I'm really picturing Antony getting frustrated trying to order Lions to pull his chariot LMAO
What an awesome come back line by Mark Anthony. It's like the best trump card you can have. Especially since it's true.
But it wasnt! Mark Antony was not bedding Atia, mother of Augustus. She was a conservative noble woman, older than Antony, living outside of Rome. They put this crap in because American audiences love anything with illicit sex. Antony had no problem with the ladies that's a fact but a regular lay of Augustus mother--not even!
@@taroman7100 why sex with Atia is illicit and sex with other women is not? Atia was not married at that moment and Antony was not married during this scene. What makes their relationship illicit?
@@obi3kenobi The fact that they ar not married.
Still pure gold this show😂
It's hilarious how Antony keeps looking and talking to Maecenas during the argument as if he's somehow going to persuade Octavian's chief lackey to take his side or laugh at his jokes.
While HBO Rome is in my all-time Top 5 series, I've always thought that the series was too harsh on Octavian. He necessarily had to rely on cunning to survive, nothing wrong with that, and he later proved to be temperate, fair, and even occasionally magnanimous. He was austere himself (a good trait in a man with unlimited power) and his reign was probably the high point of Roman history. Perhaps a few hints of that humanity would have enhanced his character.
This show made me root for Octavian. I didn't like at the end when they made it out that he was so mean to Anthony, or his family; after the repulsive things they did. Especially Atia acting like a victim when Octavian sent her to Egypt knowing she'd be rejected.
The actor who played Antony must have had so much fun with this role.
It would have been fascinating to see Octavian portrayed in the fullness of his power and adulthood, if they'd ever gotten to make the planned later series (set around the birth of Jesus).
I feel like the series leaves us viewers with an image of an arrogant and ill-adjusted youth, growing into ambition that is foisted on him; it's easy to forget that this man ruled one of the greatest empires ever built for FORTY years, and did it so well that a number of concepts in western culture literally take their name from him.
That series was already made; I, Claudius. And it is awesome.
@@raylampert1243 I didn't know - I'll have to check that out!
They would take too much dramatic license. Octavian is one who should be known to the West as much as Christ is.
Well, one of them ends up emperor and one ends up dead.
2 things i love about antony ... he views everything as a game... and his discontent with lions as beasts of burden
"Octavian's mother couldn't pull my chariot for shit!"
"I'm still fucking your lion!"
Anthony was so quotable
Fast tracking the series did hurt Season 2, especially Octavian's transformation. We needed to see his progression because his change into an intelligent, cold and mild tempted leader was so drastic.
Mark Antony: You have never defeated me in anything.
A decade later Octavian defeats Mark Antony at the battle of Actium.
Antony still would have maintained that it was Agrippa who won the battle.
As he did. Octavian was a great statesmen but his military success was mostly thanks to men like Agrippa.
part of ocatavian's genius was knowing his own strengths and weaknesses and those of his assets
the war wasnt between antony and agrippa, it was between antony and octavian.
Yeah but let's be fair, when it came to the battles, it was Agrippa who won the war. He saved Octavian's ass more than once.
Good mental math skills Anthony! ;)
Olandew Gamers he was quite wrong, actually
Would have been more impressive if he had given it in Roman numerals: (V)MDCLXVII.
And this was before Arabic numerals.
@@lieutenantkettch You mean Indian numerals
I had to think about the question for a worrying amount of time and I still got it wrong.
I love you Antony.
Beautiful Brown Eyes James
Watching the actor playing Octavian corpsing; without blinking or twitching his jawline, was pretty damn impressive. James’s Purefoy’s depiction of Marc Antony was so entertaining and hilarious.
corpsing means laughing when you should not be.
"You have no accomplishments of your own"
"It's true. It was no accomplishment to defeat you at Mutina"
Even in Ancient Rome, gotta end an argument with a Mom joke
2:52 Octavian won. But victory came at a price.
20,000 lbs of gold is no joke.
being able to figure out a third of 20000 was a big deal back then
Octavian's stare gives me fierce creeps.
I loved this series... shame they stopped it.
Not even _death_ can stop Antony from doing Octavian's mother.
I’m quite impressed by how casually Mark Anthony made that calculation in less than a second
Such a great historical series. Shame it never went past the second season.
It may have been a good thing.
The statesman, the soldier and the merchant. In theory that would be a perfect trio, shame about that.
Pureifoy was so epic in that role.
Can you imagine trying to get your house cat to do anything, let alone expecting a Lion to drag a chariot lol.
Antony: Those lions you sold me, wont pull chariots. They just walk around eating and not pulling chariots. You sold me queer lions. I want my money back.
The people who disliked don't know what a third of 20,000 is
I mean Antony is correct. Octavian hid in his Tent while the other generals fought Antony and conventional died after the battle.
I wanted to be Antony because I'm not an Octavian. Suddenly I relazied, I was always Lepidus....
Legend has it that Mark Antony is still at it with Octavian's mother to this day
I dont care whar anyone says but Antony was the star of this show. Just the comedy alone 🤣🤣
Somehow I'm glad Marc Antony was not the one in charge of forming the Roman Empire.
why
@@sirwhitemeat9785 Dumb question, and here's the answer: He would have ran it into the ground and destroyed Rome.
@@EmptyMan000 its not an answer since it provides little evidence
Antony's problem was that his ego decided his actions continously. Eventually, he was bound to make an enemy of people with both power and intellect.
James Purefoy's Antony is the best performance of his career. Arrogant, proud, avaricious, condescending hatred toward Octavian that grows and grows over 2 seasons.
JAMES PUREFOY as MARC ANTONY in HBO's ROME truly deserved an EMMY nomination as BEST LEAD ACTOR IN A DRAMA SERIES.
Marc Antony has great arithmetic. Even I paused for a while
Not really. It's just 20/3 and in the thousands. You just suck at math.
2:52, one of the best lines in Television!
2:14 Octavian turned that right back around on Antony like a boss.
They need to bring this back. Base it on the storm before the storm books and you’ll have an excellent series
Marc Antony's a character television/film has portrayed in soooooooo many different ways... makes it more interesting I s'pose, but leaves you wondering that much more, what was the real Marc Antony like? Same with Caesar.
Excellent military commander, nonchalant womanizer, clever politician, on the contrary to what some try to imply, extravagant and witty, honest and honourable, according to the account given only by Plutarch, very human in comparison to Julius Caesare or Octavian, surrounded by most powerful women living in his times, who, by the way, were his wives. Not known for any cruel excess popular this time. Betrayed by all his friends and the woman, he loved.
He was a sick weak idiot, who lost commitment of his Macedonian Legions cause he needed to set "example"for something stupied, betrayer, false, not human at all, suggest you don't believe all the crap you read here b all these so called "hisorian four eyed ginger idiots"
I have found that Caesar's fictional portrayals have been generally consistent
Not a good commander? What about leading the army in Philippi battle? What about his early successes in Egypt (before he fought in Gaul), what about countless battles as Ceasar's commander? What about his policy Rome after Caesar's death? Batlle of Naulochos? What about conquering and uniting Armenia (today's Eastern Turkey, Georgia, Armenia)? He was "very brutal" comparing to whom? To Sulla or Gaius Marius, or maybe Pompeius Magnus called otherwise "the young butcher"? He was public drunk as any others but only about him, Cicero wrote 14 speeches. Strangely, Cicero forgave certain Celius Rufus exactly the same that he condemned Antony for. Do you know, what about the death of Caesar someone said, that he (Caesar) was the only sober person in the senate house? Do you know, why Antony lost his war against the Parthians? You probably watch too much movies based upon very biased work of Shakespeare. Do you really think that he became Caesar's second in command because he was his relative?
Octavian looks like Robert Webb's son. (of Mitchell and Webb)
Octavian got roasted so bad 😂😂😂😂. Even Caesar would have laughing been in the afterlife.
Antony is so cool. This was Purefoy’s best role.
Those lions didnt pull my chariot for shit, LOL
Him: "What is one third of 20,000?"
Me: "Math is hard"
You know one third of of 10 is 3.3 right?
One third of 20 is 6.6
Not very hard.
Give Posca 20 while the three split the rest to get 6,660 for each of themselves.
“Do I look like a fuckin’ dade merchant?” What you say next time someone offers you a camel.
2:54
that's the moment Anthony won the argument.
Well, it's true, Octavian hasn't defeated Anthony at Mutina. The battle was inconclusive.
No Anthony lost but not to Octavian who was left behind to guard the camp but to the consuls Hirtius and Pansa who (fortunately for Octavian) died in the battle. I wouldn't wonder if Octavian had bribed their guards to kill them when the battle was won.
I love you Mark Antony
Lmao Anthony should’ve given posca a little percentage 🤣
A little bribe
Antony was right when he is baffled that Octavian says he defeated him, it was Agrippa after all