These new BIKE LANES didn't last two weeks!

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  • Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024

Комментарии • 5 тыс.

  • @PsRohrbaugh
    @PsRohrbaugh 2 года назад +3190

    I laughed for a solid minute when the news report started talking about the "city worker". Absolutely amazing!

    • @josephharrison5639
      @josephharrison5639 2 года назад +184

      I mean he’s wearing a vest, when have ya ever seen a kid or anyone else be safe and wear a vest lol

    • @skorpiongod
      @skorpiongod 2 года назад +98

      @@josephharrison5639my neighbor never fails to leave for her walks without her safety vest! But in general its not common lol

    • @PsRohrbaugh
      @PsRohrbaugh 2 года назад +72

      @@josephharrison5639my parents wore similar vests going for nightly walks in their neighborhood. Granted, there were no sidewalks so they had to walk on the side of the road, but there wasn't very much traffic. I wouldn't call vests common, but I wouldn't automatically assume it's a city employee either - especially riding around on a scooter. But what do I know.

    • @gali01992
      @gali01992 2 года назад +48

      @@josephharrison5639 And now you know the vest of the story...

    • @bikeny
      @bikeny 2 года назад +36

      Here in New York City, the vests do indicate a city employee. How you ask? Well, they put them on their vehicle's dashboard and the parking enforcement agents don't ticket them for any of the infractions because, well, they're city employees. As a result, they get the name of 'theft vests.'

  • @AHungryHunky
    @AHungryHunky 2 года назад +698

    "Look at this surveyer working for the city"
    Yeah that's about all you need to know about your local news station.
    "Should we ask them what's going on or how they feel?"
    "No Sharon, make something sensational up and put words and feelings in their mouth, even blow up an event that was barely noteworthy into a life or death scenario if you think it will get people to watch"

    • @updlate4756
      @updlate4756 Год назад +35

      Propaganda station. If we actually called things what they were.

    • @AgalmicAutomata
      @AgalmicAutomata Месяц назад

      Maybe because we're all confused about the idea that you're allowed to drive in a bike lane.
      No one cares if you people think its propaganda, its basic common sense that you're not allowed to drive on a bike lane.
      Going against the norm will make people who follow the normal confused. Simple as that.

  • @grahamlive
    @grahamlive 2 года назад +759

    I’m surprised that the residents of this street are happy with their street being used as a shortcut to the freeway. Where I live people are crying out for traffic calming infrastructure if they live on a street like this.

    • @mrzorak4532
      @mrzorak4532 2 года назад +57

      In England they are installing pottery and other objects to cut the streets off. If you live in the neighborhood you can get in and out, but you can't pass through it because waze found it as a faster route anymore.

    • @thetruthserum2816
      @thetruthserum2816 2 года назад +30

      In my town, they've taken 3 lane feeder roads and reduced them to 2 lanes... Now the queue backs up for 3 light changes, when it used to be 1... This is an engineered problem. Think about it... Worse roads means that DOT gets more money. In my town, they spent millions of dollars "painting lines" on the street. So, then a lot of this is the washing of money through contracts for lucrative projects that cost very little to implement, but the taxpayer burden is extreme... Sadly this corruption affects daily lives by stealing your time away from each citizen. They do it to "make streets safer", but ironically in my town, after these changes were implemented, the fatalities are at an all time high. Our cities are "experimenting on us" with experimental, untested, and poorly engineered roads, which by definition are dangerous because they are "unfamiliar in design and function", where the whole point of road safety is to make road features as homogenous and standard as possible so there is no "learning curve" and the end of each turn... Another example is they have taken one intersection, and built an island that "juts out" into the feeder road, with no markings or "road narrows" signs. They actually built this on purpose, and I saw a car hit this median and have the tie rod destroyed. Then you see strike scars on the curb, showing that this happens to lots of folks. ... and they did it on purpose. I reported it to them, and they said "it was by design"... lol Then don't get me started on the light timing. It's as if an oil investor has taken over the system and use the lights to "slow down traffic as much as possible", which makes pollution worse and the cars just site there idling in frustration. It all needs to change, and it's a management, engineering, and corruption issue.

    • @mostlyguesses8385
      @mostlyguesses8385 2 года назад +15

      Arg, know it alls.. ha

    • @thetruthserum2816
      @thetruthserum2816 2 года назад +11

      @@mostlyguesses8385 I've actually attended Civil Engineering classes in college, so I think I have an idea of what I'm talkin' about... and yes, the death rate in my town is at an all time high AFTER they implemented these changes that they call improvements... If anything, revert my roads back to the way they used to be, and they will not only double the car throughput, but it will also be safer. I should make a video so you could see it for yourself in disbelief. In my town, rather than build concrete roads, they build asphalt roads so that they road crews can spend eternity repaving them every 5 years indefinitely... It's a machine that learns how to feed itself and grow in all kinds of creative ways.

    • @thetruthserum2816
      @thetruthserum2816 2 года назад +7

      @@mostlyguesses8385 The lights in my town used to be timed for throughput, now they are timed to "slow down traffic"... Pitiful.

  • @caryrodda
    @caryrodda 2 года назад +290

    "But make sure the city talks to residents first." The whole time I was watching this I was thinking just plopping something like this down without plenty of outreach first is guaranteed to make people mad. At least the one city rep admitted that. It's an unfamiliar concept, but would probably have gone down smoother if people understood it first. BTW, congrats on getting hired by the City of San Diego to survey streets on your scooter!

    • @meme5887
      @meme5887 2 года назад +12

      Who cares if the residents know? What about when someone not from the area shows up? Roads aren't just for local people. Roads needs to be understood by EVERYONE.

    • @dragon_nammi
      @dragon_nammi 9 месяцев назад +7

      It's basically the same as if they hadn't put any lines down. It's not hard.

    • @roberthanks1636
      @roberthanks1636 8 месяцев назад +6

      A lot of people will get mad no matter what you do, but it's far better to tell them first than to plop down a completely different driving system on them with no warning.

    • @oerthling
      @oerthling 8 месяцев назад +10

      "Oh, this is so confusing - how does this work?"
      "There's too many signs with explanations"
      That was funny.
      Meanwhile in Europe this kind of street treatmeant pops up all over the place.
      Even on country roads middle lines get removed to encourage people to drive more carefully.

    • @Toksyuryel
      @Toksyuryel 8 месяцев назад

      @@oerthling Europe is smart enough to know you don't combine these kind of bike lanes with curbside parking though. That was the problem here.

  • @markovermeer1394
    @markovermeer1394 2 года назад +596

    In The Netherlands, we have these on all residential streets where a separate bike-path is not possible. Especially the natural speed reduction is great.

    • @philwoodward5069
      @philwoodward5069 2 года назад +110

      Ironically it's the USA, where the bikes don't get enough protection from cars, where this sort of thing just proves politically impossible.
      I really think it's the mindset that's the problem: in the USA, car drivers are normal road users and cyclists are fringe weirdos, so people resent anything that slows cars down to give cyclists greater protection.
      The point of these side lanes is the cars have to use them to avoid oncoming cars, but because they're marked as bike lanes, it is clear that cars are guests and have to yield to bikes (and by implication, if you run down a cyclist in a marked cycle lane, you wouldn't necessarily be able to blame the victim and get away with it like you usually can). Most Americans think that's unreasonable: if cyclists want space on the street, they should buy a pickup truck.

    • @JaapGinder
      @JaapGinder 2 года назад +54

      Correct, the Amarican traffic system is ages behind us in The Netherlands.

    • @awdrifter3394
      @awdrifter3394 2 года назад +9

      @@JaapGinder we prefer it this way. America has a much bigger car culture than Netherlands. Also cities in Netherlands are much older, some of them are built before the invention of cars, so their roads are narrow and twisty. In the US most road are wide and straight, cars will just have frontal impact with edge designs like this.

    • @zebraloverbridget
      @zebraloverbridget 2 года назад +12

      @@philwoodward5069 Exactly! at least with this people might think twice before getting angry because a pedestrian "doesn't belong in the street" and so they're angry about getting stuck behind a biker or someone skating. If I had a penny for anytime a person in a car was clearly mad that I was in the street on my longboard (electric so I have the same speed as bikers) I would be able to easily put together or buy a high end board with the money. Hell, I could even just buy a small motorcycle with it.
      People are super entitled and seem to all have skipped the day in driver's ed telling them bikes have the same rights to the road as cars. (except for interstates but no one wants to die that way anyway) These days many areas have even added in laws allowing other vehicles road access or the old laws already allowed for it. NC for example already allowed me to use the roads on my eskate based on my average speed and top speed. It wasn't explicitly written in as allowed, but the requirements for bikes and mobility devices made it legal.

    • @philwoodward5069
      @philwoodward5069 2 года назад +79

      @@awdrifter3394 Amazing. As a Londoner, I'm well accustomed to people saying we can't have protected cycling routes because of our narrow, crooked streets (to which the solution is, as in Amsterdam, to provide through routes for bikes via the backstreets while using modal filters and the like to keep vehicular traffic off those streets).
      I've never heard the straightness and wideness of a road advanced as an argument *against* putting in bike infrastructure. 🤔

  • @goatmanx99
    @goatmanx99 2 года назад +557

    Part of the comedy for me was how insanely wide that road was. Like there was definitely enough room for buffered bike lanes in both directions

    • @blakehakimian8730
      @blakehakimian8730 2 года назад +70

      There was, if you got rid of on street parking. If you kept the parking and the sidewalk, you wouldn't be able to reasonably get two lanes and enough room for bikes. There only seems to be around 48' of ROW, while the average two lane street in Chicago has a ROW of 66'

    • @AviationMetalSmith
      @AviationMetalSmith 2 года назад +3

      Look at 3:51 in the video

    • @GeorginaWilcox
      @GeorginaWilcox 2 года назад +71

      Yeah, when he said "this narrow road isn't wide enough" I initially thought he was joking...

    • @Mr8lacklp
      @Mr8lacklp 2 года назад +65

      @@blakehakimian8730 So get rid of it then. Literally every house on this road has a parking space anyways

    • @wecanmake100k4
      @wecanmake100k4 2 года назад +46

      that's what I was thinking. And there were driveways why do you need parking? At least not on both sides.

  • @BohdanMelnychuk
    @BohdanMelnychuk 2 года назад +505

    Someone tell them about the dotted centre line: you do have clear boundary AND you can still pass through it.

    • @deenoburgan
      @deenoburgan 2 года назад +66

      Can't believe they didn't think of that. Besides, as a cyclist I always stick as close to the side of the road as possible to make it easier for cars to overtake me...

    • @alikaalex
      @alikaalex 2 года назад +16

      +1. Couple that with sharrows and that would have been a much more familiar solution.

    • @davidlyday7373
      @davidlyday7373 2 года назад +36

      At the beginning of this video, he discusses the space requirements that dictate what is available on our streets. Most suburban roads are much wider than they need to be to accommodate a car going 25 mph. This wasn't addressed directly in this video, but a lot of media around the subject will point out how streets in America need to be narrower to encourage slower driving. This is because people drive the speed they feel they can comfortably go without damaging their vehicle. When the streets that are meant to only have 25 mph speed limits have lanes the size of a freeway people drive like it's a freeway. To make it safer, they encourage people to have more vigilance by making the lanes narrower and demanding the driver's attention. The issue is this is counter to the desires of the average motorist who has become accustomed to unconscious driving.

    • @xToddmcx
      @xToddmcx 2 года назад +39

      @@davidlyday7373 This is the same problem America has with roundabouts. Roundabouts have several advantages in cost and throughput, but they're safer than traffic lights because they make people uncomfortable. Suddenly drivers have to look around and pay attention, when they'd rather be spending 10% of their focus driving between the lines and the rest texting. That and people don't like change, and our media companies are happy to play up that and act outraged whenever anyone tries something new.

    • @letrouvere2158
      @letrouvere2158 2 года назад +8

      the thing is also about intention in the road design it might be, on paper the same as dotted line, but in this case, drivers are invited in the bike lane when there is another car, on the contrary, with dotted lane, bicyclist are forced to drive on the car lane

  • @wolfetone2012
    @wolfetone2012 2 года назад +59

    "Cars get first dibs, 'cause... well they're paying the bills."
    Best joke ever! And the delivery was just spot on! Almost sounded like it was sincere!

    • @jovetj
      @jovetj Год назад +1

      Do you know what a gas tax is?

    • @wolfetone2012
      @wolfetone2012 Год назад +22

      @@jovetj do you know how high a gas tax, or property taxes for that matter, would need to be to actually pay for all the space wasted to move one person in a metal box?

    • @jovetj
      @jovetj Год назад

      @@wolfetone2012 100000000000000

    • @bryced7126
      @bryced7126 4 месяца назад +14

      @@wolfetone2012 true, in every case people that bike or take public transportation end up subsidizing car infrastructure

    • @vitamaltz
      @vitamaltz 2 месяца назад +1

      @@jovetjgas taxes don't pay for local streets in the U.S.

  • @chrisgeorge74
    @chrisgeorge74 2 года назад +605

    It seems like the main issue was the education about the road. You can't just change the design of the road without telling anyone how they work.

    • @danieldaniels7571
      @danieldaniels7571 2 года назад +45

      Anyone with a driver's licence should already know how a dotted white line works

    • @TheAtkey
      @TheAtkey 2 года назад +79

      @@danieldaniels7571 It means you are allowed to change lanes and stay in that lane. You can't ride on a dashed line on a normal road you can get a ticket for unsafe lane change or improper passing on non edge lane streets.

    • @clayz1
      @clayz1 2 года назад +4

      The city can and DOES make the changes it sees fit. Not only do you have no say, but you have no clue that changes are a comin’.

    • @Rishnai
      @Rishnai 2 года назад +49

      @@danieldaniels7571 What state do in whose driver’s test asked when you should “put one wheel in the travel lane, one wheel in a lane with bicycle symbols in it, and drive for blocks straddling the dotted white line in between?”

    • @theamazingsolt
      @theamazingsolt 2 года назад +7

      City should have doubled down and did this with another road drivers are speeding on. If they had asked for public outreach on this then we wouldn't have seen it in the first place probably

  • @blakehall1631
    @blakehall1631 2 года назад +1064

    “Cars get first dibs because, well, they’re paying the bill” - I know that’s how it’s “supposed” to work with the gas tax but few places actually cover the costs of road construction and maintenance with gas tax revenue. They usually end up taking from general funds that all tax payers pay into, even non-drivers. Would love a video on gas tax in general or how our heavier vehicles with more or less the same fuel consumption mean we cause more damage but still pay the same.

    • @matiasgrioni292
      @matiasgrioni292 2 года назад +264

      I was gonna post the same thing. Car infrastructure is incredibly expensive and to think that the taxes paid by car users actually cover those cost is incredibly unfounded.

    • @arsvi123
      @arsvi123 2 года назад +39

      @@matiasgrioni292 Even still, car owners still pay for a higher portion of road maintenance than the general populace (of which car owners are also a part of). I'm all for multi-modalism (which itself includes cars) but it seems that recent efforts are more about making driving difficult/more expensive than making other modes more appealing. It's also of course worth pointing out that car uses benefit even those who don't themselves drive, delivery vans, trucks, city services etc. all require roads and benefit society at large.

    • @xtreme242
      @xtreme242 2 года назад +16

      Vehicle license tax also is used to pay for road construction and maintenance

    • @blakehall1631
      @blakehall1631 2 года назад +133

      @@xtreme242 Right but they still don't cover it which leaves non-drivers subsidizing it. It's only going to get worse with heavier EVs causing more damage but not having the gas tax. There are plenty of ways to balance it, but I just wanted to point out the slight discrepancy.

    • @blakehall1631
      @blakehall1631 2 года назад +115

      @@arsvi123 All of your points are correct, but when cars are only paying for a portion (even a majority share) of the cost but, usually, getting 100% of the benefit (in this case safe, maintained roads) then the others are still shorted. And the rest of us only benefit so much from trucks because we've built it that way. We also benefit from rail transport of goods but we've invested heavily into less efficient trucks.

  • @asdfghyter
    @asdfghyter 2 года назад +560

    *Feeling* dangerous is probably an advantage. People are way less likely to exceed the speed limit when they are worried about a head-on crash with other cars.

    • @dorianleakey
      @dorianleakey 2 года назад +8

      i feel like some chicanes would be better to slow people down, then add the bike lanes.

    • @Dragon228833
      @Dragon228833 2 года назад +23

      It’s not feeling dangerous though. It is dangerous

    • @hp2084
      @hp2084 2 года назад +51

      Yup thats what they do in many EU countries. They narrow down the lanes so that the car traffic slows down wherever they need to. US has big speeding and accidents problem is because of very very wide streets.

    • @737smartin
      @737smartin 2 года назад +18

      We're used to lane lines adding order and "safe space expectations." These lines run counter to that. They're TRYING to convey flexibility and options, but IMO they add confusion. Better situation is NO markings at all. That makes it more clear that it's a flexible free-for-all situation. 🤷

    • @asdfghyter
      @asdfghyter 2 года назад +9

      @@Dragon228833 Source? If nothing else, it's definitely less dangerous for people outside cars, since head in crashes with cars is the only situation it might be more dangerous.

  • @mediaxpuppet
    @mediaxpuppet 2 года назад +146

    Haha! That's freaking hilarious that the news caught you on the scooter. I was just thinking about how this street's lines make cars behave exactly like they do in the suburban neighborhood streets I grew up on.
    Love your videos.

    • @jovetj
      @jovetj Год назад +8

      Except most people keep right on an unmarked, neighborhood street. These lines encourage people to just got down the middle of the road all the time, until it's time to swerve to meet a car.

    • @CSDragon
      @CSDragon Год назад

      That was edited.
      He showed the real footage afterwards

    • @CallyMayz
      @CallyMayz 9 месяцев назад +5

      @@jovetj Driving in the middle is safer.
      If you're driving so fast that you cannot react to another driver, you're driving way too fast for the environment.
      Driving in the middle gives you more reaction time and awareness of anything coming out from the sides, like pedestrians. And makes it unlikely you'll drive into someone opening their car door.
      When you meet another car you both move to your side of the road and can pass eachother fine.
      I've driven a lot on roads that are as thin as a single lane, with no space on either side due to parked cars(They really should be converted to 1 ways but they haven't been), and it's inconvenient but perfectly managible as long as you're driving at a safe speed and not like a maniac. And if you're driving far too fast like a lunatic, well, you're unsafe no matter what road you're on.

    • @jovetj
      @jovetj 9 месяцев назад +1

      @@CallyMayz And how responsible and attentive are most drivers? Not very. You just demonstrated my point.

    • @CallyMayz
      @CallyMayz 9 месяцев назад

      @@jovetj I didn't demonstrate your point at all.
      This is a standard requirement to drive on a road and people do it all the time.

  • @truesimplicity
    @truesimplicity 2 года назад +592

    Communication and education with the public that is being served goes a long way to successfully implementing changes that affect them.

    • @jceess
      @jceess 2 года назад +42

      alternatively, you just make the changes on a massive scale, educate via PSAs, and not give in to demands to take it out. People will get used to it in time just like with every other controversial change that everyone ends up liking eventually. The same thing occurs with roundabouts.

    • @skorpiongod
      @skorpiongod 2 года назад +32

      @@jceess you're correct but residents shouldnt be blindsided with drastic changes. The city shouldnt cave to pressure unless the experiment actually fails, because the ones complaining dont actually know what they're talking about, the lack of familiarity just freaks them out.

    • @rogink
      @rogink 2 года назад +16

      Although consultation with the public always looks like the fairest, most democratic way of bringing in change, in reality it just means change never happens.

    • @truesimplicity
      @truesimplicity 2 года назад +8

      @@rogink It is the way of Democracy... Everyone having a voice. As long as everyone is given an opportunity to understand, then the proposed changes, whether they like them or not are understood by all.
      In this instance because of this very important step was skipped; it was DOA...

    • @nomadMik
      @nomadMik 2 года назад +13

      I think both are true. I lived on Alemany Boulevarde in San Francisco when they striped the bike lanes, but they had a public meeting about them first. A lot of people whinged, but the city insisted on trying it-it's just paint, they said. Cyclists flocked to it, motorists got used to it, the bike lanes stayed, and now, in the extra half-metre of space it left in the median, there are pretty plants and things.

  • @briant7265
    @briant7265 2 года назад +278

    My favorite was the signs (not shown here).
    1. "No Center Line" for people who can't actually see that for themselves.
    2. Illustrative sign that appears to say, "In case of incoming traffic, run over bikes."

    • @TheNotoriousKRP
      @TheNotoriousKRP 2 года назад +18

      1:44 In case of incoming traffic, yield to bikes.

    • @jeffclark5268
      @jeffclark5268 2 года назад +31

      @@TheNotoriousKRP Or in reality...shared road, drive like you're not the only person on it...somehow this works in Korea, Japan, all of Europe...
      Look at the UK alone in cities and the country, most roads are barely wider than this shared lane, yet cars somehow manage to pass each other safely, along with bikes, tractors, pedestrians. Perhaps the problem is the drivers, not the roads.

    • @Milesco
      @Milesco 2 года назад

      @@jeffclark5268 The problem is the dumb-ass stripes. If the city had just left the road the way it was, everything would've been (continued to be) fine.
      The city violated the fundamental rule: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Of course, local governments do that _all the time._ It's a distinguishing hallmark of local government. Gotta justify those bloated city staffs somehow, right?

    • @MsZsc
      @MsZsc 2 года назад +3

      @@jeffclark5268 i thought london was horrible for bikes

    • @dorianleakey
      @dorianleakey 2 года назад +1

      @@MsZsc it is not great, but better than this.

  • @feliko5373
    @feliko5373 2 года назад +578

    I can't believe that they removed it after just two weeks? This is not nearly enough time to show if this works or not. Every new traffic pattern causes some confusion at first, so it may take time to see the benefits. I would have given it more time and then ask all residents what they preferred. (And not just the ones who complain the loudest)

    • @nav27v
      @nav27v 2 года назад +63

      Everybody's an armchair expert these days. And outrage culture is booming. The city should have communicated far better then they did to avoid the outrage. I think a lot of public adjacent organizations lack the PR skills necessary for driving proper public messaging about what they are doing.

    • @drooplug
      @drooplug 2 года назад +17

      They should have given it at least 3 months.

    • @blitzn00dle50
      @blitzn00dle50 2 года назад

      they should've kept it and let the shitty drivers keep having a meltdown

    • @CDRiley
      @CDRiley 2 года назад +9

      They should have given it at least 300 years.

    • @elixier33
      @elixier33 2 года назад +29

      Shouldn't cause any confusion. Driver uses their eyes and reads signs etc... Accordingly. If this confused you, shouldn't be driving a 3 ton hunk of metal down the road.

  • @Surestick88
    @Surestick88 2 года назад +277

    Taking a step back from the initial "wtf?" reaction these do make sense.
    The narrow car lane should act as traffic calming slowing down car traffic to the point where the speed difference between cars and bikes is less of an issue. It should also reduce people using residential streets as throughfares due to reduced speed.
    The big issue I see is you still have cars crossing the bike lane to park and you still have a "door zone".
    It's better than sharrows but not as good as a separate, protected, bike lane.

    • @Klokinator
      @Klokinator 2 года назад

      The big problem is that most americans are too stupid and road ragey to ever appreciate traffic calming because CAR GO FAST and anything that slows them down is an attack on freedom and liberty... or something.

    • @avenger3163
      @avenger3163 Год назад +6

      You could solve that by having the parking be diagonal. That way the door swing wouldn’t intercept the path of traffic/bikers.

    • @jovetj
      @jovetj Год назад +24

      It's not "protected" at all, and it has anyone and everyone swerving into any "lane" they wish. As pointed out in the video, this is exactly how residential streets work, but without the lines. So, these lines are stupid. The lines also discourage cars from keeping right, which just encourages a head-on collision. This is because of human nature: most drivers are bad drivers.
      Good roads should NOT rely on suppressing human nature for safety.

    • @jooproos6559
      @jooproos6559 Год назад +3

      @@jovetj No!You just have to get more attention to where you are!Just a small road between houses and bikers.Dont let your car do the job off driving!Do it yourself!Or do i have to say that European drivers are better than Americans???😀

    • @jovetj
      @jovetj Год назад +5

      @@jooproos6559 I've never been to Europe so I cannot make any such comparison.

  • @docfornix
    @docfornix 2 года назад +571

    These type of roads are so extremely common here in the Netherlands. It can even be one-upped, a full width bike road where cars are "guests". More ideal would be segregation of bikes and cars, although within city limits 30 kmph zones where cars are considered a guest on cyclist first roads are fine too. From my personal experiences cycling in the US though, I think it's a country decades away from, if ever, achieving this level of cohesion between cars and cyclists. Where cycling in many parts of north western Europe in particular feels completely natural, in the US the feeling was best described as a death wish.

    • @TheMaw365
      @TheMaw365 2 года назад

      No offense mate but I'm pretty sure your country is tiny and has a low population density compared to theirs. Nothing that works in your country is going to work there.

    • @hoej
      @hoej 2 года назад +23

      I've seen them plenty of times in Denmark. Works better than biking on the shoulder.

    • @LPChip
      @LPChip 2 года назад +36

      As a dutchy myself, I hear you. But this problem is two faced. Users that don't know how to navigate such street and no proper marketing for such street will cause people to not trust such street. The drone footage shows the street should work, but the majority thinks its bad because most drivers have not been educated on how this works, which creates weird situations.
      Honestly though, I wonder how many accidents have happened in those two weeks. I bet there were none.

    • @benhudson2748
      @benhudson2748 2 года назад +6

      I was thinking that it would have been better not to designate those bike lanes, as it would give the impression that that space is safer for cyclists. Removing all markings and making it visually narrower would slow cars down and make it safer for this to become more of a cycling artery, separate from the primary car-oriented road further north. Making it cycling only (aside from residents) would be an ideal solution, but this is the US we are talking about.

    • @TheObsesedAnimeFreaks
      @TheObsesedAnimeFreaks 2 года назад +14

      Cars should NEVER be a "Guest" on a road. sorry, cyclists MUST move over and allow cars to pass, in all circumstances. YOU are the most at risk, and YOU must be the most vigilant and the most accommodating. you can't do something that would make a larger vehicle crash or hit you. you must give way to any vehicle that is larger then you.

  • @Rct3Mike
    @Rct3Mike 2 года назад +681

    Watching this fresh off a 2 week road trip in Spain makes those residents freaking out over that road even more hilarious. The roads get much much tighter and pedestrian/cyclist centric than that and not once did it ever feel "dangerous" it just makes you drive a little more cautiously. In those 2 weeks I did not see a single accident anywhere on a Spanish road. On my 2 hour traffic ridden drive back home from JFK I saw 4 accidents. We really have no clue about road design here, really wish the engineers who actually know what they're doing would stick to their guns a bit more rather than immediately caving to angry Karens.

    • @reddykilowatt
      @reddykilowatt 2 года назад +30

      its San Diego, the Karen-est city in the state.😂

    • @earthpcCHClS
      @earthpcCHClS 2 года назад +64

      Maybe. But keep in mind they also did not educate the neighborhood about their plans. Education goes a long way to let people know what the road is designed for and let them adapt to the new way of using the road before implementing it

    • @BadDriversofMaryland
      @BadDriversofMaryland 2 года назад +29

      I completely agree, although I have one outstanding question. I know from NotJustBikes that the Woonerfs generally use permeable pavers and a whole lot of elevation/textural/color changes to signify bicycle priority. In the US, cities put down white paint and leave the bike lanes black asphalt for the most part. While in Spain did you notice different textural changes in conjunction with the perceived cultural awareness? How important is it to go above and beyond with these three design elements (elevation, texture, and paint) when implementing bike lanes in a community that hadn't ever accommodated them before?

    • @niyablake
      @niyablake 2 года назад +18

      One they didn't tell any one , two these look like traditional bike lanes and you are not supposed to drive in bike lanes. Three they are only suppose to be used on narrow low traffic roads. It's not about people being karrens

    • @niyablake
      @niyablake 2 года назад +3

      @@BadDriversofMaryland they did have bake lanes before, but it had a center yellow line and stripped for two lanes of a traffic

  • @zachbrenner9959
    @zachbrenner9959 2 года назад +253

    I feel like the edge lane road would not only force people to slow down on that road. But it would probably make it a less favorable rout turning a computer road back into a quiet neighborhood road

    • @DiogenesOfCa
      @DiogenesOfCa 2 года назад +22

      The speed limit in neighborhoods should be 25mph, or lower: 20 is plenty!

    • @user-jc2ez6ig5z
      @user-jc2ez6ig5z 2 года назад +14

      It's a reverse psychology road. Let's make drivers and bikers incredibly unsafe and confused, so that they drive with extreme caution. Horrible process, idc if the statistics say it's good, it has to work on a human level, and intentionally making people unsafe is not good for their psychology.

    • @zonaryorange8734
      @zonaryorange8734 2 года назад +33

      @@user-jc2ez6ig5z Only unsafe if you have no clue how to drive it. Take a look at vids of new roundabouts in North American intersections, roundabouts are extremely common in other countries and not at all an issue for people who actually know how to drive. There is a difference between having an unsafe road and having idiotic drivers. You can put a roundabout in a neighborhood or a shopping center and people in this country still drive the wrong way on it. You can revert a one-lane road back to the two lanes but those idiotic drivers are still there, you are still in danger because of them (or yourself if you’re the case). The road’s only an issue if the driver’s are careless. Focus on getting those drivers off the road, with or without a confusing road they will still be there ever-presently presenting themselves as dangers to public safety

    • @user-jc2ez6ig5z
      @user-jc2ez6ig5z 2 года назад +2

      @@zonaryorange8734 I disagree, roundabouts are safe and intuitive. On the other hand, the road design in the video is like a roundabout where everyone can turn clockwise or counterclockwise.
      This video's road conflicts have nothing to do with lack of education, and everything to do with be a legitimately unsafe, unintuitive, and conflict provoking design.

    • @skorpiongod
      @skorpiongod 2 года назад +4

      @@DiogenesOfCa speed limits dont matter. People routinely speed on these roads because of poor design and busy schedules.

  • @adampolok
    @adampolok 2 года назад +62

    In France these shared lanes are really popular and we call them "chaucidou", I often ride my bike on streets with them and you really see the difference on how much distance cars leave when passing you.
    From my personal experience, I think that cars leave me with around 1 meter when there is a white central discontinuous line (1 meter is the legal minimum in towns limited to 50km/h / 30mph). With this "chaucidou" drivers tend to leave me with around 1.5 to 2 meters or even more when there is no car coming the other way which is way more comfortable in my opinion (1.5 meters is the legal minimum on rural roads limited to 80km/h / 50mph.) Keep in mind that the speed limit of the roads with this kind of painting never exceeds 50km/h or 30mph. I think that a real separated bike lane is ideal but the "chaucidou" is definitely better than nothing.
    Oh one more thing, in France we don't have this kind of parking where you can park on the whole length of the road, we have individually separated parallel parking spots and you have either a curb or a sidewalk where you are not allowed to park, which i guess is better because the places where you can get hit by a car opening its door are fewer and more visible but I don't think that is possible in the US because of the parking minimums and the fact that everybody uses a car so you need more parking spots.

    • @Sombre____
      @Sombre____ 8 месяцев назад +1

      It's so annoying for the cars. I hate them in france. And i think i hate them also when i use my bike. I really don't see the point apart for annoying car's drivers. And you don't need two meters to use your bike, one meter is plenty enough. If a bike user is smart, he can zigzag on the walkway like a grown man. It's what we do in the countryside and it never hurt anyone. But i believe than town bicycle users have two brain cells.

    • @adampolok
      @adampolok 8 месяцев назад +3

      @@Sombre____ If you mean riding a bike on the sidewalk, that is technically illegal, plus i live in the countryside so when i go through a town the section where there is a sidewalk is not very long so taking the time to get off my bike, go onto the sidewalk and then do the same to get off the sidewalk once it ends takes a lot of time on my commute and doesn't provide much added safety since car drivers don't expect cyclists to cross on pedestrian crossings. Also i dislike doing that because it just creates conflict situations with pedestrians.
      If you are riding your bike for leisure and you are not in a rush, i think in that case it's ok to ride on the sidewalk if that makes you feel safer. But if you are commuting on a longer distance and want to go fast, you shouldn't ride fast on the sidewalk, you could hurt someone. If cars are allowed to go fast on the street, why shouldn't bicycles do the same?
      Also that is irrelevant on out of town roads (which represent most of my commute) where there is no sidewalk. Cars and cyclists just have to share the road until we build appropriate bike infrastructure.

    • @jamesbond007colt45
      @jamesbond007colt45 6 месяцев назад

      This ain't 🇫🇷 France, nor do we want to be like France.

    • @jamesbond007colt45
      @jamesbond007colt45 6 месяцев назад

      ​@adampolok as a kid I rode on the sidewalk...cars don't have bumpers...almost got killed as a teenager thinking cars are looking 4 you. NOT !!!

    • @ChristianLaurinE
      @ChristianLaurinE 2 месяца назад +1

      @@jamesbond007colt45 You mean you prefer being dysfunctional? Ok gotcha...

  • @MrMarty77
    @MrMarty77 2 года назад +382

    We've got a lot of those in Belgium. They're called "bicycle suggestion lanes". But people also refer to them as "murder lanes". They're slowly dissapearing from the roads though, often being replaced by elevated bicycle lanes and narrower slower car lanes.

    • @wilwulpje5684
      @wilwulpje5684 2 года назад +16

      tja, Belgen 😅

    • @zvezdaster
      @zvezdaster 2 года назад +3

      @@wilwulpje5684 mja zunne echte wupkes eh?

    • @curtisbme
      @curtisbme 2 года назад +50

      ​@@alexanderkupke920 "I wonder if American drivers are just to stupid to get along with bikes and pedestrians" Yes, yes we are. Most folks don't cycle so anyone who is doing so is an annoyance to them, not just someone just doing what they do too. But the real issue here is that we are used to anything with lines at the outer edges but not in the middle, and is only one car wide, is a one-way road so folks are going to be confused as hell by this unusual situation they have never been trained on or driven before. The other thing we are used to is that if there is a bike lane marked like this, no cars are allowed to be there so some drivers would be hesitant to use the space when needed and cyclists wouldn't understand that a car could be swerving into the space anytime there is oncoming traffic.

    • @jamesjesus1828
      @jamesjesus1828 2 года назад +4

      How often do you hear about someone getting hit in one of those lanes?

    • @EleaRevils
      @EleaRevils 2 года назад +12

      Euhm... no we dont call them that.
      These are also only placed in roads where the max speed is 50 kmph.
      Maybe in your neighbourhood they dont care about the max speed.

  • @neillthornton1149
    @neillthornton1149 2 года назад +158

    As a San Diegan, it's no surprise that it was KUSI that called you a city worker. They used to be a respectable independent channel, but have really gone downhill the last few years. It's also not surprising they were trying to equate it to the end of the world. It's just all doom and gloom scare mongering over there.

    • @frafraplanner9277
      @frafraplanner9277 2 года назад +7

      KUSI more like kuso

    • @akorn9943
      @akorn9943 2 года назад +20

      That was so darn funny haha, really goes to show how little interest, nuance or care news companies can get away with putting into, well, the news nowadays

    • @Igamer124
      @Igamer124 2 года назад +10

      They didn't even ask. Just assumed it was city worker. 😅

    • @ViceCityMasta
      @ViceCityMasta 2 года назад +4

      Uh pretty sure that's every news channel lol.

    • @Zalis116
      @Zalis116 2 года назад +1

      Did the station get bought out by Sinclair?

  • @DannyStieben
    @DannyStieben 2 года назад +205

    Especially after this video, Road Guy Rob really needs to collab with Not Just Bikes. I think that would be super interesting.

    • @therealdutchidiot
      @therealdutchidiot 2 года назад +23

      He might learn a thing or two, yes.

    • @boldvankaalen3896
      @boldvankaalen3896 2 года назад +1

      and/or Bicycle Dutch

    • @numhold
      @numhold 2 года назад +5

      This is gonna be interesting. Didn't he say he doesn't even own a bike?

    • @potatopotatow
      @potatopotatow 2 года назад +15

      He’d be quickly disabused of the notion that streets are “for cars”. Especially residential streets.

    • @aprilshowers3008
      @aprilshowers3008 2 года назад +4

      @@numhold I wonder how the hell you don't own a bike ???

  • @tejanausland1180
    @tejanausland1180 8 месяцев назад +6

    I think the problem is that they used white dashed lines. For most people, that separates lanes, and you are supposed to stay in your lane. If they gave it a different treatment, such as painting it red or green with bicycle symbols, and omit the white dashed lines, it would probably convey the same message and not be instantly rejected by some people.

  • @jianchen3210
    @jianchen3210 2 года назад +60

    One reason I think really caused the confusion is the "line" itself. Nearly all of the drivers were taught to drive between two lines or one side of the line, creating both at the same time and the two way traffic. They are not the ones to blame.

    • @carultch
      @carultch Год назад +4

      This road is better off with no paint at all. The intended use is what drivers and cyclists would naturally do on an unpainted road, and the line just adds to the confusion, because exactly as you said, drivers are taught to stay between lines. And not straddle lines.
      As a driver, you should always be out of the way of oncoming car traffic by default. It's stupid to expect both traffic directions to share the center lane, and have to run over bicycles, or block bicycles, if they can't slow down in time for each other.

    • @stphinkle
      @stphinkle 5 месяцев назад +2

      I agree. Even the DMV Driver handbook does not mention this pattern. Plus, you are right many of us in the USA are taught to drive between the lane lines and stay out of the bike lanes or parking lanes. I understand it may be different in the countries like the UK, Denmark, the Netherlands, or Stockholm for example. But take into account this was San Diego, where this traffic pattern was foreign and not that familiar to those who grew up in Southern California. Not that we cannot adapt, but new unfamiliar traffic patterns that have not been used in the region previously need to be deployed with proper driver training and public awareness of how it is supposed to work to reduce accidents.

  • @veedubgeezer
    @veedubgeezer 2 года назад +89

    The biggest problem here is education. We had a number of these appear near to me in Oxford. There was no education offered around their use. Your report clearly shows how they work and for that I'm grateful.

    • @AdamSmith-gs2dv
      @AdamSmith-gs2dv Год назад +3

      Exactly. I see bike lane and I think I'm not allowed to be there

    • @adventureoflinkmk2
      @adventureoflinkmk2 8 месяцев назад

      Oxford... OH?

    • @veedubgeezer
      @veedubgeezer 8 месяцев назад

      ​@@adventureoflinkmk2 UK

    • @damiendye6623
      @damiendye6623 2 месяца назад +1

      ​@@adventureoflinkmk2no we got these things in Oxfordshire UK too.

  • @ukrdima
    @ukrdima 2 года назад +68

    It almost seems like someone wanted to be able to later say "see, people don't like this type of roads so we won't build them anymore"

    • @IceSpoon
      @IceSpoon 2 года назад +13

      The worst part is that the idea was great. The signs were "there was room to improvement" but the idea is great, and neighbourhood streets already work this way. This was sad to watch.

    • @nobodyimportant2470
      @nobodyimportant2470 2 года назад

      Pretty much how politics works. People want something you don't like so you make a very shitty version that you can point at and say "See it isn't good". Just look at all the welfare programs that are designed to incentivize people to not work so they can claim people on the program are lazy when working a minimum job would pay less than not working.

  • @Ruvi5000
    @Ruvi5000 9 месяцев назад +48

    lmao this is totally normal in the Netherlands or Germany and people are loosing their minds, I love this Channel and I love seeing that things that are brand new in the US and are preventing crashs (like yellow lines in a construction) which we've had for ever

    • @aidanmccarthy9249
      @aidanmccarthy9249 8 месяцев назад +10

      Yeah but driving standards in the Netherlands and Germany are way more strict than in North America. A good chunk of drivers here would fail their driving tests in Europe.

    • @chrisfoxwell4128
      @chrisfoxwell4128 8 месяцев назад +2

      The population of San Diego, not a huge city, is almost double the population of the largest city in the Netherlands. There are no comparisons to be made between such disparate places. Even Germany only has 3 cities larger than San Diego.

    • @DanDanDoe
      @DanDanDoe 7 месяцев назад +7

      ⁠@@chrisfoxwell4128What does the total population of a city have to do with it?

    • @skuripandaburns3489
      @skuripandaburns3489 6 месяцев назад

      ​@chrisfoxwell4128 so if Germany has cities larger than San Diego but those cities have shared lanes (and many other even more "complicated" road situations), which Germans living in those larger cities navigate with no problems... does that not destroy your argument?
      It's simple: Americans are bad drivers on average. And instead of improving drivers by making driving schools more difficult and final driving test more strict, you're dumbing down the roads, making them as wide and comfortable as possible.
      And even with your dumbed down roads adjusted for dumb American drivers, you still have two to three times the accidents per capita, and two to three times the death toll. So, dumbing down roads doesn't work.

    • @yaush_
      @yaush_ 2 месяца назад +1

      If any lane in the us is less than 3 meters wide for any car Americans short circuit so I see why this happened

  • @evanfreund5651
    @evanfreund5651 2 года назад +143

    2:58 you said “cars get first dibs cuz well, they’re paying the bill”. But I’m pretty sure that they are in fact subsidized once you account for the hidden cost of free parking, the space required for cars, the strain they put on the road, and the increased cost of spaced out development built around cars, while bicycles don’t really contribute to deterioration of roads and are significantly cheaper to build for that also pay for car centric roads since a lot of that funding isn’t covered by gas taxes and road fines.
    -guy who watches Not Just Bikes

    • @mrhmm3198
      @mrhmm3198 2 года назад +9

      THEY ARE PAYING THE BILL

    • @evanfreund5651
      @evanfreund5651 2 года назад +29

      I’m going mostly off of Not Just bike’s videos about suburban finances. If you watch it and don’t believe it, then that’s up to you. I also know there’s a book called the high cost of free parking, which I admittedly haven’t read.
      If you have a source to back up your claim that drivers do infact pay for 100% of the roads, I’ll gladly look into it

    • @zokpls8712
      @zokpls8712 2 года назад +42

      People who don’t own cars pay for the drivers who do.

    • @mrhmm3198
      @mrhmm3198 2 года назад +6

      @@zokpls8712 From 1776(Since data collection) - 2022, approximately $0 has been raised from the 'People who don't own cars' tax as there isn't one.

    • @DiogenesOfCa
      @DiogenesOfCa 2 года назад +11

      @@mrhmm3198 No they are not, do some research.

  • @leotard2536
    @leotard2536 2 года назад +156

    We have tons of "edge-lane" roads here in the Netherlands, espeically on slow, quiet, rural or suburban roads. They work wonderfully from the cycling and driving perspective.

    • @Kr0noZ
      @Kr0noZ 2 года назад +6

      Not really, at least not from footage I've seen on RUclips (I have never been there myself).
      It LOOKS like a great place for bikes, but if you're in a car you are constantly and artificially hampered from just going on by way of having to wait around for the bikes to clear the way, which almost never happens because so many people use the damn things. So what you really mean is: They work wonderfully from the cycling perspective but don't you dare drive a car",

    • @tokarp390
      @tokarp390 2 года назад +30

      @@Kr0noZ well you just pass by with speed of 30km/h instead of 70km/h that's all .

    • @leotard2536
      @leotard2536 2 года назад +35

      @@Kr0noZ Nice of you to admit you have no actual experience with the subject. Again, these are slow, rural roads that we're talking about, so not many bikes to begin with. Besides, there's no "waiting around for the bikes to clear the way," cyclists are already on the edge of the road, bordered by the dashed lines.

    • @stefvangoethem4681
      @stefvangoethem4681 2 года назад +24

      @@Kr0noZ Maybe that's the entire point to promote bike usage instead of car usage. Sure you have to wait/slow down in your car for bike, but if those bikes weren't there all these people would be in cars, now the time it takes you to go from A to B is slower for all parties involved. On top of that you need way more money for bigger roads to "solve traffic congestion", you increase global warming, a lot more people die from car crashes, your population gets obese and less healthy so that costs you even more money. I prefer driving in the Netherlands compared to any other country I've been to.

    • @TheAwesomes2104
      @TheAwesomes2104 2 года назад +16

      This assumes that Americans would also be courteous and respectful to people on bikes. They aren't. There's literally people who'll install pipes on their trucks specifically to fill a cyclist's lungs with poisonous exhaust.
      You always have to consider the culture when trying to implement things like this elsewhere, and American culture is being stupid and not caring about anyone but yourself.

  • @mfaizsyahmi
    @mfaizsyahmi 2 года назад +25

    > "Cars get first dibs because they pay the bills"
    A widely cited misconception. Motor vehicle tax is just one revenue stream the DMV/equivalent levies for the states/equivalent to spend on anything it wants. Even if it is written into law, that law should be changed to be a tax for polluting the environment, to support those who cannot use those roads in a car, etc.
    And IIRC property tax pays for a lot more of the overall upkeep on roads than motor vehicle tax. Not just the pavement, but the water, electric, and sewer mains under it, the landscaping, the garbage collection happening on those roads etc.

    • @DanielBrotherston
      @DanielBrotherston 2 года назад +4

      THIS!
      I'm so tired of this lie...drivers don't pay for roads and they aren't entitled to roads.

    • @InternetKilledTV21
      @InternetKilledTV21 2 года назад +4

      @@DanielBrotherston Especially when >25% of a transportation surface is used as free storage of pollution machines.

    • @einar8019
      @einar8019 2 года назад

      @TNerd spandex*

  • @MrSaemichlaus
    @MrSaemichlaus 2 года назад +4

    So why is there a double yellow there?? Just allow cars to pass cyclists by using the other lane and they will do EXACTLY what is safest to do, WITHOUT the head-on conflict and the confusion of introducing a totally new road layout.

  • @Cerandus
    @Cerandus 2 года назад +203

    As a dutch person I'm used to this in the middle of nowhere XD It's typical old bicycle infrastructure. A bike line besides the street is better though :-)
    Cyclers keep in the cycling area (unless they pass others). Without these lines you will simple cycle in the center of your lane :-)
    The road also needs more obstacles to make people meet the speed limits.
    And if you hit a cycler here with a car.... Well, prepare to be sued. As the more vulnerable road user is protected by law ;)

    • @melsbov
      @melsbov 2 года назад +8

      Adding onto your last part
      Even if the cycler crashes into the car, its still the cars fault

    • @flash2615
      @flash2615 2 года назад +16

      @@melsbov unless it can be proven with a dash cam for example. But in general the car driver is at fault unless proven innocent

    • @parkershaw8529
      @parkershaw8529 2 года назад +3

      I recognize bikers have right of their safety, but they have no right to hold the road hostage and slow down other people. Where to strike the balance is a rough question.

    • @coop5329
      @coop5329 2 года назад +5

      Lawsuit is cold comfort after somebody is dead or permanently disabled from being hit by a car. In a country with a strong bike culture, no problem. Out of the blue in a car culture? Bad idea. I'm all for public transportation; having buses and light rail available would be a godsend in many many ways, but the underlying situation is not similar in the U.S where normal distances are very long compared to in the Netherlands, and there is zero public infrastructure to support a public transport/bike culture.

    • @flash2615
      @flash2615 2 года назад +19

      @@parkershaw8529 the problem is the mentality. If it was a lot more pleasant to ride a bicycle and use public transportation, there’d be a lot less cars on the road. A lot less traffic jams. Commuting on a bicycle doesn’t make you a cyclist, it should just be normal to be able to arrive safely on a bicycle. In the us, everyone would think you use a bicycle because you’re too poor to buy a car. But it should be the norm. I’m a huge patrol head and even I live happily in a cyclist focused country like the Netherlands.

  • @KimonFrousios
    @KimonFrousios 2 года назад +108

    If you want a clear division of directions AND you want people to be able to overtake, use dashed lines as a median instead of double solid lines.

    • @carultch
      @carultch 8 месяцев назад +26

      Exactly. That way, people know where they are suppose to drive by default, and only move left with discretion to pass.
      These roads would do much better just being unpainted roads. The intended behavior is exactly what people do on unpainted roads already. This kind of markings are just asking for trouble, to confuse everyone.

    • @sladewilson9741
      @sladewilson9741 8 месяцев назад +9

      As a "vulnerable road user" on my electric skateboard, I know I tend to only ride on unpainted roads or ones with a dashed line. Anything else is welcoming death even more.

    • @homeoftheinepttulpagamer
      @homeoftheinepttulpagamer 8 месяцев назад +7

      Dashed centre lines already exist as you point out. It's akin to the we need a new standard to unify all the other standards.. adds another standard to the list. But I guess it meant someone got paid a lot of money to write research papers and get grants from the council.

    • @JoeKubinec
      @JoeKubinec 8 месяцев назад +2

      In Maryland, it is lawful for a motorist to cross double yellow line to to pass a cyclist. Not sure where else in the US this is legal.

    • @KimonFrousios
      @KimonFrousios 8 месяцев назад +6

      @@JoeKubinec Then either double lines are overused to the point of losing their meaning, or Maryland takes head-on collisions too light-heartedly.
      Everywhere else in the world double lines means it is unsafe to cross into the opposite direction for any reason and it is illegal to do so. Solid lines, especially double ones, are to be given the same respect as solid walls. The presence of a cyclist does not magically make that stretch of road safe. Safer stretches of road where overtaking is ok don't use solid lines. It's a much more sensible and consistent system.

  • @RobinSylveoff
    @RobinSylveoff 2 года назад +29

    Meanwhile in the Netherlands, I bike on an edge lane road like every day. I didn't even know it had a name, it was so normal.

    • @Normal1855
      @Normal1855 2 года назад +3

      The problem in the US, is the cyclists think that they can ride anywhere, and anyway they want. They don't stop at red lights, or stop signs, and they ride in both directions, on both sides of the road. They also ride in the middle of the road, and refuse to move for faster traffic. They also ride 2 and 3 across, even though they're required to ride single file.

    • @Rob2
      @Rob2 2 года назад +5

      @@Normal1855 That is the same in the Netherlands... we just (have to) deal with it.
      Normally on a road like this when there would be a 20mph speed limit (30 km/h) here so it would not be too much of a problem with modern electric bikes going almost that fast as well.
      And to avoid dangerous action by car drivers, the rule is that in case of an accident the car is always at fault, not the biker.

    • @Vugoseq
      @Vugoseq 2 года назад +10

      @@Normal1855 You sure that's a cyclist thing? Most dashcam vids from the US are 97% cars that pull such stunts like not stopping for red lights or stop signs, driving anywhere on and off the road or blocking traffic.
      But good for you they changed it back to a situation where the people on bikes need to ride on the road and it's forbidden to pass them with the double yellow lines. That way instead of looking at ugly bike -infrastructure- lines and passing them when safe, you can stay behind them and drive 4mph for the entire street. Don't tell me you want them to move over to the sidewalk or the parking lane, you just said you didn't want them driving anywhere where they don't belong.

    • @Anco
      @Anco 2 года назад +5

      @@Normal1855 And still you dont want separate infrastructure? With better infrastructure they Will behalve better. And if they are separate they wont botter you, and there will be less cars, so maybe even faster travel time for you

    • @roteschwert
      @roteschwert 2 года назад +1

      @@Anco Few places in America hardly has viable alternatives to driving, so every bad driver is forced to get into a car. And people wonder why traffic is so bad

  • @bearcubdaycare
    @bearcubdaycare 2 года назад +9

    "They're the ones paying."
    Nah, not really. Nearly all roadwork is from general revenue. The gasoline tax is a tiny fraction, and the registration/excise tax isn't that much either.
    Having shared use of quiet residential streets makes sense. But for busier and faster streets, a separate bike path, away from the road, makes more sense. Colorado Springs has had these for decades, spanning the city, from downtown to the further suburbs. But in recent years, someone in the city decided that painted bicycle gutters were needed on busy streets, creating the inevitable conflict, making things worse for cyclists and drivers alike. As a driver, wait properly for the dashed line to pull right to turn right, and you'll have several cars passing you on the right by pulling across the solid white line as if it weren't there; I haven't yet noticed any driver shoulder checking before doing so. All this fashion for painted bicycle infrastructure is endangering everyone. If the road is small enough, slow enough, quiet enough, then just leave off all lines. Works fine, as you showed. If it's bigger than that, make a separate bike and pedestrian way elsewhere, 100-300m away. We're not a poor country unable to do such things. The seven mile long paved off road bike/pedestrian path near my small mountain town gets substantial use, as does the nearby highway, no conflicts. Same with the myriad off road bike/pedestrian paths in nearby Colorado Springs. Instead of more paint infrastructure with the excuse of "well that other type of paint infrastructure would be even worse", use the existing off road right of ways to build more off road bike pedestrian paths.

    • @James-vj5hz
      @James-vj5hz 2 года назад +2

      I support only spending the gas tax on car infrastructure. Lol

    • @jasonreed7522
      @jasonreed7522 2 года назад

      If they really want painted bike infrastructure on a busy road they should eat the road space for a "sidewalk" and use paint to separate pedestrians and cyclists on the elevated sidewalk instead. (You may need to use asphalt for the bike half of the sidewalk because frost + normal sidewalks = not level)

  • @knoodle6848
    @knoodle6848 2 года назад +12

    6:42 "He's clearly working for the city" lolllll

  • @fillipipelz
    @fillipipelz 2 года назад +175

    I really liked this statement: “Ambiguity is a benefit”. Being in a uncomfortable position does make you more alerted

    • @Kaiso54
      @Kaiso54 2 года назад +6

      But that's where it bumps with public perception. All the research seems to say it's safer, but drivers hate ambiguity, it doesn't feel good. We want to have a clear lane to drive in, we hate to share it with vehicles of different speed, and the less we have to be cautious about the better it feels.
      It's hard to argue against increased safety, and yet a lot of these measure are impopular because it reduces our "freedom" to drive fast and selfishly.

    • @mikedebruyn
      @mikedebruyn 2 года назад +3

      @@Kaiso54 I follow a person who moved to the Netherlands where these kind of roads are quite common even on more rural roads where you can drive 55mph. She was confused about these roads and the overwhelming reply people gave her, if it's confusing your driving to fast.

    • @nicolek4076
      @nicolek4076 2 года назад +4

      @@Kaiso54 That is whole point. When drivers feel uncertain, they slow down and pay more attention to what is around them.

    • @DrJams
      @DrJams 2 года назад +6

      @@Kaiso54 Driving fast isn't selfish. Making everybody cycle is selfish

    • @TheOneFoolishMan
      @TheOneFoolishMan 2 года назад +11

      @@DrJams Driving fast is absolutely selfish. "I need to get there as fast as possible at the expense of public safety in case I mess up". Drivers can still drive, but now they're forced to be aware that they need to SHARE the road in a safe manner. Sounds like the opposite of selfish to me.

  • @MegaJoler
    @MegaJoler 2 года назад +73

    As someone who's been following this issue and works in the active transportation engineering world, San Diegos fumble here was outreach. They didnt talk with the residents or members of the community, councilpeople, or anyone really with what they were doing. People are always resistant to change, you have to inform them before something like this happens or people will reject any proposal, no matter how sensible

    • @sillydrizzy2985
      @sillydrizzy2985 2 года назад +1

      My city had the same issues when we added some roundabouts in some major areas. We've had some out of the way ones for decades, but put a big one in a major artery, no one remembers how to go through them...multiple people trying to go left, even though the road really guides you to the right around the circle. (I think half of them were in protest or smart asses)
      They did try to reach out...but even with multiple methods....the city couldn't hit every demographic and so many ppl were focused on the "scary roundabout" that they wouldn't pay attention to the media to learn
      But we stuck with them and every year there's a new one or two going up...I really like them and definitely finding my morning commute faster with them.

    • @mikeboychuk8809
      @mikeboychuk8809 2 года назад +1

      Ok buy why do bikes need 2 lanes? You have a bike and person who at most weighs 300lb …. A car at minimum is at 2k lb… this doesn’t make sense to me

    • @sanderw7153
      @sanderw7153 2 года назад +1

      @@mikeboychuk8809 one lane to go one way, the other lane to go the other way... On top of that, it visually narrows the road, so cars drive more carefully.

    • @MegaJoler
      @MegaJoler 2 года назад

      @@mikeboychuk8809 Bikes get two lanes because the street is giving them priority over cars. Cars only get one lane and have to yield

    • @sirquasi
      @sirquasi 2 года назад +2

      @@MegaJoler the thing is it really isn't a bike lane. Cars are allowed there. This road layout just forces people to look out for each other and reduces speed as the width of the street feels narrower (than it actually is).

  • @punishedkid
    @punishedkid 2 года назад +11

    I think a major problem with these is that they encourage car drivers to merge without looking and to always drive over the bike lane. This might just be an issue with the high-traffic street, though, as I can see this being very useful in streets and roads with low ridership.

    • @raphaelcaceres9129
      @raphaelcaceres9129 Месяц назад

      It should be used only for lower traffic road. In general High traffic roads are wider and can accomodate a bike lane

  • @jdigi78
    @jdigi78 2 года назад +19

    You were spot on with pointing out how unmarked roads already operate the way they intend these road to be used, but the bike lane markings provide an illusion of order and protection that doesn't exist on these roads as they would with dedicated bike only lanes

    • @carultch
      @carultch Год назад +1

      Why not just leave it as an unpainted road, and let the drivers and road users work out what they need to do? The edge lane paint only adds confusion, and wastes paint that gives no useful information.

  • @WardFontaine
    @WardFontaine 2 года назад +32

    In Louisiana, you are expressly allowed to pass a bicycle in a no-passing zone:
    "An operator of a motor vehicle may pass a bicycle traveling in the same direction in a no-passing zone only when it is safe to do so."
    from La. RS 32:76.1(B)

    • @chaos.corner
      @chaos.corner 2 года назад +13

      Have done it many times here in TN. The no passing is for regular traffic. You'd be in a real bind if you couldn't pass a horse, a tractor, a cyclist or even the Menonites.

    • @Croz89
      @Croz89 2 года назад +6

      It's the same in many other countries. In the UK, if the vehicle is stationary or travelling 10mph or less (which would include most cyclists going uphill) you may pass on double whites.

    • @AdamSmith-gs2dv
      @AdamSmith-gs2dv 2 года назад +1

      Yea that's what I was taught to do in New York, if it's safe you can cross the double yellow to pass a bicyclist or pedestrian.

    • @Normal1855
      @Normal1855 2 года назад +1

      That's the way everywhere. I don't know where they got that you can't pass a slow rider?

    • @Normal1855
      @Normal1855 2 года назад

      @@AdamSmith-gs2dv or tractors. If you couldn't, a 10 minute trip, would take an hour.

  • @kinkema
    @kinkema 2 года назад +71

    It's crazy how low of standards we have for drivers.

    • @scottanno8861
      @scottanno8861 2 года назад +8

      Have you seen the people who barely pass the open book, easy driver's test here? We need driver's test at least on the level of the UK

    • @InternetKilledTV21
      @InternetKilledTV21 2 года назад +13

      @@scottanno8861 Nah, Denmark should be our goal. To get a "B" license (car) students are mandated to sit through several hours of classroom education, pass a series of closed-course tests (normal condition and simulated iced surface). Students must also record several hours on public roads with a supervisor (30+ years old or licensed 10+ consecutive years without revocation or suspension). Prospective "B" license holders must also take 8+ hours of first-aid safety courses, receive a note from a doctor stating overall health---especially eyesight---is within acceptable parameters. Only after all of these requirements are satisfied can you schedule your final tests; a 25-question multiple choice exam (minimum 80% to pass), and a public road test with a government supervisor. Any mistakes on the final public road test means you fail the license test (even just straying in your lane onto paint markings is considered a mistake). All of this is to operate a car. Once you have your "B" license it's valid until you turn 70, after which you must receive an OK from your doctor, and pass the road tests every 2 years.

    • @scottanno8861
      @scottanno8861 2 года назад +1

      @@InternetKilledTV21 Yeah that would work too

    • @Normal1855
      @Normal1855 2 года назад +3

      As opposed to the caliber of bike riders? Where I live, they're entitled riders, who think the traffic laws don't apply to them. I can't ever can't even count how many times I've almost hit a cyclist, who blew through a stop sign, or red light, in front of my. And that's WAY more than when other drivers.

    • @scottanno8861
      @scottanno8861 2 года назад +8

      @@Normal1855 Bike riders are annoying and elitists, but honestly the problem is too many cars on the road with no qualification.

  • @ScottMStolz
    @ScottMStolz 2 года назад +3

    If they want to reduce thru traffic, add some small roundabouts. That is what we do around here. Locals hate roundabouts, so we'll add them to streets we don't want people to use for thru traffic, and people actually do avoid them. LOL.

  • @AshmewStudios
    @AshmewStudios 2 года назад +28

    Recently visited the Netherlands (aka the bike kingdom) there were lots of these lanes in slower streets. I can’t fathom why Americans can’t build good bike lanes.

    • @DiogenesOfCa
      @DiogenesOfCa 2 года назад +18

      75 years of propaganda from oil and car companies.

    • @jceess
      @jceess 2 года назад +10

      @@DiogenesOfCa also an abundance of boomers/Karens who reflexively hate everything to do with roads that isn't adding 16 lanes for cars.

    • @johnathin0061892
      @johnathin0061892 2 года назад +3

      Because the vast majority don't want them.

    • @DiogenesOfCa
      @DiogenesOfCa 2 года назад +10

      @@johnathin0061892 Enjoy, your traffic, your road rage and the 100 people killed DAILY in cars and by cars.

    • @dudeman4184
      @dudeman4184 2 года назад +2

      @@johnathin0061892 majority SEEMINGLY dont want them because the infrastructure isn't there in the first place. People do want to bike and use good public transit. There's a high demand, but we're all forced to drive.

  • @BrentBestwick
    @BrentBestwick 2 года назад +27

    My takeaway on this was.... find ways to restrict / deter freeway users from cutting through a neighborhood street and just don't paint lines. People will figure it out as they do on unmarked neighborhood roads. Spending the money to paint lines and erect signs added more to the confusion than if they'd just paved the road and left it unmarked.

    • @jrstf
      @jrstf 2 года назад

      We did that (restricting traffic) which resulted in the neighboring government filing a frivolous lawsuit, some people are really hard to please.

    • @elizabethhenning778
      @elizabethhenning778 2 года назад +1

      This. If someone is unhappy with the traffic on the freeway, maybe they should consider where the traffic came from.

    • @rianfelis3156
      @rianfelis3156 2 года назад +1

      That's my take also. This feels like an attempt to remind people that it is a neighborhood street and should not be used as a commuter shortcut. Make people less comfortable on the road, so you reduce traffic on it, and make it safer for the people that live there. However it will take a while for the change to filter through the shortcut apps that people use and discover that it really isn't a good shortcut anymore.

    • @ijustdocomments6777
      @ijustdocomments6777 2 года назад

      Where I live we have these things called speed bumps! They have to be implemented correctly, obviously, but they seem to help.

    • @rianfelis3156
      @rianfelis3156 2 года назад

      @@ijustdocomments6777 Some. But what I usually see is people slowing down just for the speedbumps and then flooring it as soon as they get away from them.I've also seen so many cars bottom out after crossing the speedbump too fast, and you can see big gouges in the asphalt right there. Also, not an issue there in California, but in snowy states they cause lots of issues with snowplows over the winter.

  • @coced
    @coced 2 года назад +40

    Welcome to America, where you need a road sign to tell you not to crash in a car

    • @jgood005
      @jgood005 2 года назад

      Don't worry, people don't read them anyway

    • @einar8019
      @einar8019 2 года назад

      @@jgood005 of course people dont read them. i can literally see that theres no car comming either way and im not going to go to a complete stop every fucking block

  • @atcatpl
    @atcatpl Год назад +14

    A good way to fix the problem would be to make the street one way with single lane for cars, that would create space for fully separated bike lane, and also stop the road from being a shortcut lowering traffic

    • @hfnorris4223
      @hfnorris4223 8 месяцев назад +3

      You’re totally missing the point. It’s a residential street. Number one problem is drivers are not obeying the speed limit. This type of innovative solution is too much, too fast for most Americans drivers to comprehend. My understanding is they still haven’t accepted round abouts yet.

    • @rhondakendrick2563
      @rhondakendrick2563 8 месяцев назад +2

      THAT MAKE TO MUCH CENTS WE CAN NOT HAVE THAT

  • @dikkiedik53
    @dikkiedik53 2 года назад +58

    This is like an average Dutch road. We have thousands of kilometers or miles as you call them, of this type of roads. It is just a matter of getting used to it. I was a police officer for 38 years and saw that these types of roads also were introduced in the Netherlands. I was initially skeptic. During my career I treated around 3500 traffic accidents, but I don't remember much on this kind of streets. The dotted lines mark more or less the maximum position of the right for cars when they pass a cyclist. For cyclists these lines mark the maximum left position while riding. When there is no cyclist, the full road width is used by cars. Two cars can pass easy then. Only the moment that at the same time, two opposing cyclists and two opposing cars drive it is too narrow ... simply delay and show some courtesy and give each other space.
    In rural environments in The Netherlands, cyclists were often hit by cars in the dark. All rural roads have this type lines now and because it is quiet there during the dark, drivers will ride between the lines in the middle and do not drive over cyclists anymore. There should have been a news item about how to behave on this type of roads.

    • @mobiusklein9140
      @mobiusklein9140 2 года назад +3

      Americans do NOT refer to kilometers as miles, they are fully aware that they are two completely different measures of distance.

    • @dikkiedik53
      @dikkiedik53 2 года назад +1

      @@mobiusklein9140 ;-) it was noting serious. I' m from an era when we learned both systems at technical school.

    • @briant7265
      @briant7265 2 года назад

      @@dikkiedik53 I'm old enough to remember when we (the U.S.) decided to switch to metric in the 70s. They put up a bunch of shooed limit signs in km/hr under the ones in mph. Then a couple of years later they took them all down.

    • @dutchy1121
      @dutchy1121 2 года назад +1

      At least in NL where I live the bicycle area of the road (edge) is painted red so people know what to do automatically, but we Dutch are used to bicycles everywhere. We are a cycling nation.

    • @cybermaus
      @cybermaus 2 года назад

      Yes, it works great here in NL, but only on certain roads. Not too busy, and not with continuous parking on both sides. Great solution, maybe not for this particular road.

  • @CyclingSteve
    @CyclingSteve 2 года назад +165

    These people can park on their own property, remove the car storage lanes and use the road for transport.

    • @InternetKilledTV21
      @InternetKilledTV21 2 года назад +14

      "But that's expensive for JUST ME!!!!1!1@!" - carbrain

    • @russellgeisthardt9828
      @russellgeisthardt9828 2 года назад +55

      Restricting parking to one side would make plenty of room for two full bike lanes and two full driving lanes

    • @duailibi2
      @duailibi2 2 года назад +12

      another that can be done is reduce the road to one-lane-one-way allowing for parking on both sides, trees, wider sidewalk and a bikelane

    • @OntarioTrafficMan
      @OntarioTrafficMan 2 года назад +13

      It all depends on the purpose of the street. If this truly is a through street, then definitely remove some of the parking for better traffic / bicycle flow.
      But if this truly is a local residential then they need to block off through traffic at one or more points to prevent people from driving along it as a cut-through, which introduces more traffic than a shared bike/car roadway can comfortably handle.

    • @lightningbot85
      @lightningbot85 2 года назад +5

      Yup, once I saw the diagram he showed a better solution was clear, remove one side of parking, put a 2 way bike lane in its place (with lines in between so it’s really two lanes) put the parked cars next to the bike lanes, so on one side of the bike lane is the curb and sidewalk and then there are parked cars protecting the other side. On the other side of the road is the two way driving area. That way you have parking, a fully protected bike lane, and a 2 way driving area.
      Edit: since there's driveways in front of almost every house, take away street parking all together and put one lane on one side that switches direction based off the time of day (direction used most during each rush hour)
      this makes it so that most driveways on that side don't have to cross the bike lane to get to the road that goes the direction they want. next to that put the two way protected bike lane, and then next to that on the other side of the road put the two way driving area (two lanes, like how the middle of the road currently is) this whole new design is weirdly complicated just to stop the bike lane from being constantly cut off by drivers exiting their garages. It also shows that having a suburb with only single family homes that each have driveways makes the whole suburb car dependent, meaning to live their you need a 40,000+ car, basically no one walks anywhere because the roads need to be only used by cars to keep them simple, and everyone get's used to that and protests against ever change. This is what 99% of "desirable" american suburbs look like and its what a lot of large American cities look like (like LA). Its terrible neighborhood design and hopefully starts to change to allow more walk-able and livable places.
      TLDR: I give up this suburb sucks go move to a walkable city like NYC with good public transit or a suburb in a country like the Netherlands to get out of car dependent hell.

  • @reddykilowatt
    @reddykilowatt 2 года назад +51

    you knew it was a problem when the surveyor on his scooter showed up trying to figure it out 😂

    • @CDRiley
      @CDRiley 2 года назад +2

      LOL 😆

    • @davidlipscombe916
      @davidlipscombe916 2 года назад +2

      That's typical press thick as stuff pigs do , didn't they see his microphone sticking out his pocket .

  • @maxst.germain8714
    @maxst.germain8714 2 года назад +2

    After living in Germany for a year, Europeans are miles head of the US in sharing the roads with „vulnerable road user“. Most village roads don’t have a centerline and people aren’t making a big hoopla hin sharing with bikes.

    • @th5841
      @th5841 2 года назад

      Excactly.

  • @goab1287
    @goab1287 2 года назад +152

    There are 3 main requirements for an edge lane road. (in my opinion)
    - low traffic volume
    - rural setting
    - NO PARKING!!
    They failed all 3. Feels like they wanted to fail.
    A 4th might be that the road is narrow. This road looks like it could have 2 lanes both ways and a bikeline.

    • @Brozius2512
      @Brozius2512 2 года назад +30

      Bullshit, this works in other countries.

    • @goab1287
      @goab1287 2 года назад +15

      @@Brozius2512 I know, I live in one.

    • @20quid
      @20quid 2 года назад +27

      Considering the width of the road and the fact that all the properties had off-street parking rendering most of the on-streer parking unnecessary, I don't understand how they couldn't find room for two curb-separated bike lanes and two car lanes.

    • @christaaah
      @christaaah 2 года назад +19

      - Looking at the car count this IS a low traffic volume. If it was any lower you wouldn't even need any markings on the road.
      - A rural setting would be a horrible choice for this type of road design. Since driving speeds are usually higher in rural areas and there's more room, that's where the separate bike lane comes in.
      - No parking would be ideal, but it's not necessary. I would say the current situation with only the yellow middle line is considerably worse with parking. With the bike suggestion lanes, at least you had a clear boundary line for parking, that'll help cyclists identify parked cars easier, and helps drivers park better. And the dotted line means that cars passing cyclists will keep a better distance so the cyclists won't be forced to ride closer to the parked cars than comfortable.
      The only thing that went wrong with this road is that they didn't inform anyone about the change. You can't expect the people driving here to immediately understand it, since this type of road design is apparently still quite rare in that city.
      And about the narrow road. This honestly was the best way they could have divided the space. 2 lanes and one bike lane would have been quite unsafe for cyclists. 2 lanes, means cars will drive faster. And 1 two-way bike lane would mean that as soon as they get to the next street the cyclists would have to cross the entire road again, to ride safely on the right side, since not all streets are designed the same.
      This is a design error you see with many new American cycling projects. Yes, a protected two-way bike lane is the safest option for cyclists. But that only counts as safe if they have a good connection to the other streets. If not, then just use an unprotected lane on either side of the road. Just take it one step at the time. It's about the network, not the single road.

    • @Danji_Coppersmoke
      @Danji_Coppersmoke 2 года назад

      Street parking is good. it serves as a protection barrier.

  • @oleconer
    @oleconer 2 года назад +91

    North American streets are dangerously easy to navigate in most cases.
    I'd really like to see Americans who struggle with these streets navigate sma town streets in Europe which may very well be only as wide in total as the "car" section here

    • @einar8019
      @einar8019 2 года назад +7

      yea that street is 2x as wide as the street i live on and i have no problem meeting other cars in my pretty big volvo v90

    • @SilverStarHeggisist
      @SilverStarHeggisist 2 года назад +1

      That's because we've land to spare. My favorite was visiting Texas, were half the roads were two lanes in each direction and a parallel road on each side of the main road.

    • @einar8019
      @einar8019 2 года назад +15

      @@SilverStarHeggisist you spelled shit road engineering wrong

    • @SilverStarHeggisist
      @SilverStarHeggisist 2 года назад

      @@einar8019 no it was great, you literally never had to worry about being stuck behind someone going slower then you. I wish all roads were like that.

    • @einar8019
      @einar8019 2 года назад +13

      @@SilverStarHeggisist if your in a car its great but for literally everyone else its terrible. its bad for the enviroment, for pedestrians, for the people living next to the road, for bisiclyists and its also less safe for car drivers too because of the increased speeds

  • @GryphonIs
    @GryphonIs 2 года назад +121

    I actually prefer this style of road. Psychologically, it makes the drivers think they have less room, so they would be less likely to drive fast in low speed limit areas.

    • @SilverStarHeggisist
      @SilverStarHeggisist 2 года назад +11

      it's great until you're heading home tired after a long day at work and aren't ready to have a car in front of you. I could easily see someone focused on the car in front of them so swerve into a bike they didn't see because they're focused on the car.

    • @TeaObvious
      @TeaObvious 2 года назад +1

      i think the same, i actually like the idea. If its the best in regards what people are used to atm is a big question. How ever, ones people got used to it, it can lead to a more well defined system, it just needs some time to break the old habits. - tbh as european i did not know, that it is common that you have yellow lines everywhere. In most regions in europe you have a center divider which is more or less only there to show you where the center is, you are legally allowed to cross is to overtake (if there is enough room of course). We also have something similar to the yellow lines, how ever those are only in areas, where it is really dangerous to overtake, where nobody with a brain would overtake anyways, like on corners.

    • @virginiamoss7045
      @virginiamoss7045 2 года назад +2

      @@SilverStarHeggisist Precisely, tired or not.

    • @SilverStarHeggisist
      @SilverStarHeggisist 2 года назад +1

      @@virginiamoss7045 or imaging this on a foggy early morning, when like half the people think because there's some light that means they don't need to turn their headlights on.

    • @EleaRevils
      @EleaRevils 2 года назад +4

      @@SilverStarHeggisist In EU we have lots of verry old roads that allowed 2 way traffic these roads are mostly not wider then 1.5 cars.
      I think there is a disparity between us and US, that we are used to riding on these streets VS US being used to verry wide roads.

  • @fredashay
    @fredashay Год назад +3

    My main problem with bike lanes is that when you're turning right, you have to cross two lanes of traffic while making your turn.
    Doing that on the highway is insanely dangerous and almost always results on a wreck, but car drivers are expected to do it when there's a bike lane.

  • @better.better
    @better.better 2 года назад +59

    edge Lanes on quiet residential streets don't make any sense precisely for the reason you stated: people including cyclists and kids playing basketball are using those streets WITHOUT any lines just fine...
    the real solution to Gold Coast drive is to make it so it doesn't go through. this will stop anyone other than residents from using it. we have that exact scenario here in my city. A street that used to go through that now has an elementary school in the center of it. the cycling route continues between steel bollards through to the school bus parking lot which is where the street used to go. there's a U-shaped neighborhood on either side of the school grounds

    • @roceb5009
      @roceb5009 2 года назад +4

      Exactly my thoughts as well. Although, I don't think making it not go through is even necessary (though probably a good idea). Just remove all the lane markings. It means the same thing, everyone understands what it means already, and it's a clear signal to through traffic that they shouldn't be there. If anything, the only effect of the edge lane markings is that it gives through traffic permission to be there.
      Now here's a thought: instead of making the road not go through, what if they just... lied? Put up "not a through street" signs, and maybe put in a report with Google maps to get them to stop routing traffic through there?

    • @frafraplanner9277
      @frafraplanner9277 2 года назад +2

      @@roceb5009 Or just put steel bollards on a block in the middle of the route. Easy, fast, cheap, takes literally less than one day to do

    • @roceb5009
      @roceb5009 2 года назад +1

      @@frafraplanner9277 yeah but that also blocks local traffic, forcing people leaving for their commute onto roads *inside* the neighborhood, plus making them even later, which makes them go faster...

    • @canyonoverlook9937
      @canyonoverlook9937 2 года назад +1

      They could also make it illegal for through traffic during rush hour. I have seen roads like that.

    • @galaxyanimal
      @galaxyanimal 2 года назад +1

      Put in some jig jogs where you have to turn right then left or vice versa to stay on the street.

  • @amselfass
    @amselfass 2 года назад +11

    Surely a street exclusively zoned for single-family housing does not require that much on-street parking?

    • @chaos.corner
      @chaos.corner 2 года назад +1

      That can easily be 3 or 4 cars (or more). per house. I houses were provisioned in a time when people had fewer cars, off-street parking might be a big ask.

    • @amselfass
      @amselfass 2 года назад +1

      I'm not a local, so I ultimately don't know. In the drone footage, the parking lanes seem quite empty and there's lots of space in peoples' driveways. I was just pointing out that removing the on-street parking would give enough space for two car lanes and two protected bike lanes. Decisions like this always involve tradeoffs, and if it's always the cycling infrastructure drawing the short straw, America can never overcome its car dependency.

    • @chaos.corner
      @chaos.corner 2 года назад +1

      @@amselfass People take their cars to work. It's worth a look though for sure. Maybe remove one lane of on-street parking but alternate sides so that people can still park on their side of the street but it introduces a slalom effect which could help with traffic calming.

    • @skycaptain95
      @skycaptain95 2 года назад +1

      Single families own more cars than ever. This very well might not be enough.

  • @bluesky2927
    @bluesky2927 2 года назад +83

    It seems like people just hate it because it's different and new. When they built a DDI in my town, everybody was complaining about how odd it was, even though it really did help in relieving traffic. But the DOT should've notified residents before implementing those edge lanes.

    • @zzz6valvoline
      @zzz6valvoline 2 года назад +5

      DDIs are good for cars, really sucky for people who walk and bike.

    • @jceess
      @jceess 2 года назад +11

      @@zzz6valvoline If you have enough car traffic to justify using a DDI, chances are it's already incredibly unpleasant to walk or cycle there.

    • @bluesky2927
      @bluesky2927 2 года назад

      @@zzz6valvoline That's just the thing- there aren't any pedestrians at this intersection, and very rarely any cyclists. I think people just need to be better educated and accepting of new traffic patterns.

    • @Arjay404
      @Arjay404 2 года назад

      People always hate change, but the bigger issue is that the city added something completely unfamiliar to the locals and didn't inform them about it at first. A street with edge works counter to how you normally drive and how you have been taught to drive, so people need to be taught on how to drive "wrong" so they understand how to drive"right".

    • @Normal1855
      @Normal1855 2 года назад

      That's the biggest gripe. They never got input from the people who it affects the most.

  • @jpsalis
    @jpsalis 2 года назад +2

    People are salty of the idea that bikes take first priority. Hopefully see more of these roads in the future, this should be the normal setup.

  • @dragonskunkstudio7582
    @dragonskunkstudio7582 2 года назад +49

    What my city did is turn streets into one way streets.
    Put a park in the middle of one street to make in into 2 dead end streets.

    • @DiogenesOfCa
      @DiogenesOfCa 2 года назад +3

      Then the NIBY's in the neighborhood would complain about how long it takes them to get to the freeway.

    • @dragonskunkstudio7582
      @dragonskunkstudio7582 2 года назад +8

      @@DiogenesOfCa So you go around the block NBDR and your front yard and street is nice and quiet.

    • @joec.2768
      @joec.2768 2 года назад

      If I can see there's a road where I need to go, I would rather just drive there slowly than have to plan an elaborate circling pattern to home in on the destination.

    • @dragonskunkstudio7582
      @dragonskunkstudio7582 2 года назад

      @@joec.2768 It's not for those who live there it's to deter those who do not.

  • @AlexA-gy7us
    @AlexA-gy7us 2 года назад +43

    Hi Rob. I live in the SD area and work in active transportation planning. I appreciate you doing this video! It’s all about safety!

    • @jayjackson5705
      @jayjackson5705 2 года назад +4

      But the Edge Lane treatment is safer. Problem is road is being used as a cut through and it was designed to be a slow residential street. To restore it to a slow residential street you need to add 'filtered permeability' basically barriers in the street that allow bikes and peds to go through but force drivers to turn and make the route more circuitous and therefore less effective than just staying on the highway or the arterial aka 'stroad.' Make it so cars can't cut through and you fix the problem, pavement markings become an irrelevant moot point.

    • @PeterPapineau3
      @PeterPapineau3 2 года назад

      yeah? wanna help me stop the stupid airport people mover idea?

    • @jayjackson5705
      @jayjackson5705 2 года назад

      @@PeterPapineau3 what's the problem with it? (I genuinely haven't looked at it)

    • @einar8019
      @einar8019 2 года назад

      @@jayjackson5705 just ban thru traffic and make the sidewalk wider and people will slow down

    • @jayjackson5705
      @jayjackson5705 2 года назад

      @@einar8019 that's what you're essentially doing with the filtered permeability. Signage won't work because it requires enforcement and that's next to impossible to be effective.

  • @deezynar
    @deezynar 2 года назад +104

    The problem with that street is that it goes through.
    The city should block it to car traffic in a couple of places so it loses it's appeal to drivers who use it as a thoroughfare. Just leave gaps in the blockades so cyclists can get through.
    As for the markings, get rid of all markings on that street.

    • @filanfyretracker
      @filanfyretracker 2 года назад

      trouble is if driveways go onto that road you cannot completely make it bikes only, otherwise people will yard hop in their SUVs so they can park in their garage.

    • @deezynar
      @deezynar 2 года назад +24

      @@filanfyretracker
      I didn't say to make the road for bikes only.
      I said they should block the road in a couple places so cars can't use it for a thoroughfare.

    • @Boby9333
      @Boby9333 2 года назад +3

      @@deezynar how about parking on one side only, 2 car lanes and 2 bike lanes?

    • @nav27v
      @nav27v 2 года назад +7

      @@Boby9333 that defeats part of the purpose which was to force drivers to subconsciously slow down and be more cautious.

    • @jayjackson5705
      @jayjackson5705 2 года назад +11

      you are correct, this is the best solution and is exactly what they would do in the Netherlands. It's called 'filtered permeability.' Source: I'm a transportation engineer.

  • @bpcoxkr
    @bpcoxkr 2 года назад +9

    Nailed it - that's what was missing in the coverage. Was always used for a cut through. I don't know whether it's still sedate enough for edge lanes but does seem like it's at very least on outer limits of acceptability, especially when you compare to the existing case studies (that are overwhelmingly rural). Feels like this + traffic calming might make some sense?

  • @christianbarnay2499
    @christianbarnay2499 2 года назад +14

    4:17 The pickup and the white car turning left both run on the stop marking on the opposite side of the road. People who drive so recklessly don't deserve to have any saying about road safety. They only need to get a ticket for putting lives in danger, and have their licence revoked.

    • @nathaniels9141
      @nathaniels9141 2 года назад +1

      You would have ban like 1/4 of driver's. Though I do agree super annoying and dangerous. Like the people that never used their turn signals.

  • @cameronennis1956
    @cameronennis1956 2 года назад +64

    Something else to consider: in California and a lot of other states like MA, VA, CT, etc. traffic enforcement is very strict and expensive. People are used to getting pulled over for driving in a bike lane. So, when they see what looks like a bike lane with one car lane in the middle, they may be hesitant to move into the bike lane for fear of getting a ticket, causing a lot of confusion. Here in FL, it is a different story. Traffic enforcement basically doesn’t exist. It sucks, but people would probably be less confused by this road design because they already feel as if they can move into the bike lane to avoid an oncoming car with no consequences.

    • @niyablake
      @niyablake 2 года назад +11

      yes , yes and yes. When a city in California introduced floating parking it confused even the cops there and they issued tickets to people who correctly used the floating parkin spots

    • @DiogenesOfCa
      @DiogenesOfCa 2 года назад +2

      Cops in CA NEVER patrol in neighborhoods. This is a moot argument.

    • @niyablake
      @niyablake 2 года назад +4

      @@DiogenesOfCa they did when I lived in Milpitas and I see them do it in Sacramento. When I was in the bay area they did t Selective Traffic Enforcement Program (STEP ). That's when you get police from 4-8 different agencies and do crack down on speeders. ANd yes they would pick a street like this

    • @47f0
      @47f0 2 года назад +4

      Florida should be a pretty good case study in how NOT to do things.
      Orlando was just ranked number one in the nation as most dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists, and Florida beats 49 other states in pedestrian and cyclist fatalities.

    • @karlkoehler341
      @karlkoehler341 2 года назад +1

      Eh, this doesn't mesh with my experience at all. Cars drive in bike lanes all the time, delivery trucks unexpectedly pull up and stop in bike lanes, and enforcement just is not there. Maybe different street design would help ?
      Another problem are needlessly large vehicles. How is it legal to have lifted pickup-trucks so high that they can blast their exhaust right into your face as a cyclist ? A few such toys make for a terrible experience for everyone. Why don't we seem to have a universal standard for bumper heights for all street-legal vehicles ? There are already all sorts of regulations around cars&trucks.

  • @aggro_beat
    @aggro_beat 2 года назад +39

    Nothing makes me safer than painted bicycle lanes. Specially when those are right next to high speed traffic with lots of heavy vehicles. Such a joy!

    • @flopsinator5817
      @flopsinator5817 2 года назад +1

      I wouldn't exactly call this high speed. To be frank this looks like a fairly comfortable street to cycle on.

    • @SkepticCyclist
      @SkepticCyclist 2 года назад +1

      And in door zones of parked cars

    • @flopsinator5817
      @flopsinator5817 2 года назад

      @@SkepticCyclist Drivers will step out into car traffic as well. Not checking in the mirror means dooring another car or getting run over.

    • @flopsinator5817
      @flopsinator5817 2 года назад

      @Doji If bicyclists are small enough in the mirror that one may reasonably overlook them, they're far enough away that they themselves can react.
      Try it out one time. Have a friend or something move forward to your side mirror, and determine at what distance he becomes too obvious to overlook. I'm betting roughly 20m or about the length of the 2 cars parked behind you.

    • @aggro_beat
      @aggro_beat 2 года назад

      @@flopsinator5817 I'm not talking about the street that "failed"
      I mean, Americans view every street as high speed, but that was not the street i was referring to

  • @JacksonMarvel
    @JacksonMarvel 2 года назад +33

    This is a really a great design! A one and a half lane for cars on local and residential roads is a great idea to slow people down yet still provide access on minor travel roads.

    • @jovetj
      @jovetj Год назад +9

      It's not a good design for several reasons:
      - The painted lines like this are not necessary because this is how unpainted streets are treated.
      - The painted lines encourage cars to travel in the middle of the road versus keeping right for oncoming traffic.
      - The traffic volume is too high for this type of application. The road already had a painted center line for a good reason.

    • @thatadde
      @thatadde Год назад +7

      @@jovetj N°3 is the real reason it wouldn't be good. N°2 is actually the point, and why it's good design. If you don't feel safe, you slow down and are less dangerous. N°1 can be said for any road, so it's a bad argument.

    • @SmallSpoonBrigade
      @SmallSpoonBrigade Год назад +5

      First off, this is a terrible idea. We've got the same basic issue around here, a total of 4 lanes of road, 2 for parking and the remaining being divided between bikes and cars. The usual way we've done it is with "sharrows" as in basically the right most bit being for bikes, and the cars flowing around them as they would in any other passing situation. It doesn't really require any education for the car drivers as it's not really any different than normal, it just shows the cyclists that this is a road that they're intended to use.
      As far as residential roads go, this is absolutely massive. Around here that would qualify as an arterial that would have a center-line as well as traffic control devices at the intersections. On the streets we have where it is just one lane in both directions, it's really one lane in both directions and it's clear that you've got to pull over, you don't have the additional mental space of trying to figure out if there's a cyclist involved and figuring out who is going to yield to whom.

    • @KoruGo
      @KoruGo 2 месяца назад

      ​@@jovetj Cars SHOULD be driving in the middle that's the point. That decreases speed. They should only move aside when passing. This is a system that works all across Europe and I don't think Americans are too stupid to do it as well.

    • @jovetj
      @jovetj 2 месяца назад

      @@KoruGo Read my post again, slower.

  • @_DeathDreams_
    @_DeathDreams_ 2 года назад +46

    Seems like it needed a bunch more traffic calming, and more commitment to turning it into a street by making it difficult for drivers to use it as a cheat route

  • @markp8295
    @markp8295 2 года назад +212

    I laughed so hard when you showed the news portion of people's reactions. This is just an average Scandinavian road.
    It's great for low traffic areas.
    The lines also make people think twice about bikes before crossing as the psychological barrier of a line is a reminder.

    • @alphastratus6623
      @alphastratus6623 2 года назад +17

      Think twice to think about others/cyclists? I think you found the problem here.

    • @Gastell0
      @Gastell0 2 года назад +14

      @@alphastratus6623 Yeap, drivers that don't think are definitely a problem

    • @CRneu
      @CRneu 2 года назад +9

      A lot of drivers, especially american ones, need to be told exactly what to do. Unknowns create uncertainty which causes some people to "lock up". It has a lot to do with how americans are taught to drive. That's why a lot of americans struggle with traffic circles for a while, they aren't used to having to make on-the-fly decisions so they will treat traffic circles like a stop sign(which they're familiar with).
      Despite tons of evidence that "less traffic signs = more cautious driving" a lot of people want more signs, more traffic markings, etc because it defines the environment for them.

    • @DieselRamcharger
      @DieselRamcharger 2 года назад +6

      youve never been to california. Have you?

    • @DieselRamcharger
      @DieselRamcharger 2 года назад

      California has 7 times the population of Finland. Scandinavian bullshit doesnt work there. there are no "low traffic areas"

  • @OADINC
    @OADINC 2 года назад +15

    This is so common in the Netherlands

  • @CLsIim
    @CLsIim 2 года назад +3

    I feel like if they got rid of the dashed lines for the suggested bike lane and just left the two outside solid lines for parking, it would’ve been fine. You don’t necessarily need a painted centerline on a neighborhood road.

    • @ThunderClawShocktrix
      @ThunderClawShocktrix 3 месяца назад

      that show most neighborhood roads here work doesnt seem to cuase any problems

  • @StrangerCoug
    @StrangerCoug 2 года назад +41

    My first impression was that it wouldn't have been such a bad idea if the streets were made one-way for cars, making one of the bike lanes effectively a contraflow lane (since I'm not familiar with advisory bike lanes-I don't think they're a thing here in San Antonio). If I lived in that neighborhood, I'd have been confused as all hell, too.

    • @Aabergm
      @Aabergm 2 года назад +4

      I mean all they had to do was remove on street parking on one side and have one bike lane on the other..... Cant believe city planners thought that was a good bicycle infrastructure.

    • @AlkaVirus
      @AlkaVirus 2 года назад

      @@Aabergm that wouldn't work. there's houses on both sides, everyone wants some street parking infront of their house.

    • @Lillith.
      @Lillith. 2 года назад +2

      Advisory bike lanes are lanes where bikes take priority, but cars can cross into when needed. In this case, if you were to drive down the street, bike in the bike lane, another car coming towards you, you would partially go into the bike lane behind the cyclist to let the car, who also partially goes into the bike lane, go through.

    • @JH-pe3ro
      @JH-pe3ro 2 года назад

      It's a bit hopeless with the current street configuration. I've visited Mira Mesa and (tried) to walk around it. It's full of dead ends, and from the map, Gold Coast is a little more connected than many streets by being near retail businesses, but lacks the alternatives to make people happy with it as a one-way. A better move(but far more challenging) would be to attempt to work with landowners to build out some new rights-of-way for the bike network.

    • @Aabergm
      @Aabergm 2 года назад +1

      amendment: ... it was good bicycle infrastructure without telling anyone about it beforehand.

  • @DavidTheScientist
    @DavidTheScientist 2 года назад +12

    These are not really being used like they are in the Netherlands. There are two uses in the Netherlands. One is on country (rural) roads which are quieter and not that wide. On these roads, the white dashed edge markings are not actually marking a bike lane, but actually just keeping cars from the edge, and artificially narrowing the road, which lowers travel speeds. Generally, bicycles will have a separate bike path, but if they are intended to use the road, it still doesn't make them "bike lanes" in law (there was a legal issue about this recently, I'd have to dig out the article).
    The other use is in main residential streets. In this case, the bike lanes are usually painted red, and the cars get the remainder of the street (the single travel lane, grey asphalt or potentially brick). I believe these are always, or almost always streets marked as "auto te gast", or "cars are guests". In this case, cars should wait patiently for an opportunity to pass. I don't think I've EVER seen them with on-street parking (which adds risks of dooring), unless there's designated bays. The design of this street in California seems confused, taking elements of both rural use edge markings (as found in the Netherlands and other European countries), which are not actually bike lanes, and Dutch "cars are guests" cycle streets, but without the same level of speed restrictions etc.
    Unfortunately this is what happens when you mimic without understanding...

    • @mrmaniac3
      @mrmaniac3 2 года назад +2

      Nevertheless, seeing these things being done, even done poorly, is a good sign to me, gives me hope. For every one attempt at better street design that's poorly thought out, there's like 10 highways being redesigned, adding lanes, with the same amount of thought. I was looking at some residential streets in LA on Gmaps, it had several different types of traffic calming methods being used because they don't actually know what they're doing, so they have to throw things at the wall to see what sticks. It's a miracle they're even throwing. Truly, it would be amazing if the people responsible for making these changes actually consulted successful street designers in the Netherlands and their design manuals.

    • @DavidTheScientist
      @DavidTheScientist 2 года назад +1

      @@mrmaniac3 Yes, it's true, even making an attempt to replicate better street design is a good sign. I remember some of the first roundabouts built in Florida, they were very problematic and required several design changes, but as they became more European in design and operation, and drivers became used to them (came to understand how they operate), they worked successfully. Now, roundabouts are the default intersection choice at all new intersections in the state.
      Of course, doing a little more research and consultation before implementing something (as with these edge lanes) would be a good idea, as this may now not get a second try. Roundabouts in Florida very nearly didn't get another chance either, so hated was the Clearwater roundabout at first, but I guess they'd already spent so much on the roundabout that they were more willing to modify it first... painted lines are not so hard to disappear forever.

    • @Kiyoone
      @Kiyoone 2 года назад

      My humble opinion: Too many people that should not driving cars (are incompetent, dumb and selfish AND would not have passed the driver licence test) drive cars. That's why USA has one of the worst traffic conditions in the world. If drivers of cars think that the roads was made for them, there is something VERY WRONG.

    • @edewaal97
      @edewaal97 2 года назад +1

      I certainly know some streets in the Netherlands where there is parking and not "cars are guests" streets. Like Noordewierweg in Amersfoort, the city wants to get rid of it. The main difference is that there are speedlimit measures, like bollards or speed bumbs. Also the busy part of that road is 30kmh (19mph).
      Not Just Bikes calls it a painted bicycle gutter. The best solution is to seperate bicycle streets and main car streets entirely. Maybe the fix for this street is a bollard in the middle, so cars can't use it as a cut through.

    • @DavidTheScientist
      @DavidTheScientist 2 года назад

      @@edewaal97 Noordewierweg is a standard width road with bicycle lanes as far as I can tell, and yes these exist quite a bit around the Netherlands (including with parking unfortunately). However, the particular topic of the video is a 2-way road that's one lane-width wide for cars, and which intentionally forces cars into the bike lanes as a form of traffic calming (thereby making cars dodge both bicycles and each other). I'm pretty sure such a setup only exists as bicycle priority streets in the Netherlands.

  • @shawngbrennan9893
    @shawngbrennan9893 2 года назад +22

    2:58 "Cars get first dibs because... well, they're paying the bill." What bill is that exactly? The federal gas tax that hasnt changed since 1993? They're not coming close to paying the bill, by any means. Lol. That way of thinking though is why the vast majority of America's streets are not designed for people. Anyway, love your videos! What a shame what happened in Mira Mesa. SoCal took one step forward and two steps back.

  • @travist.7279
    @travist.7279 8 месяцев назад +1

    "This has been tried successfully in other places." Note that those "other places" are not lined with parked cars.

  • @uzziya6392
    @uzziya6392 2 года назад +63

    So remove one lane of parking and put in a two-way bike lane. There's plenty of space for it.
    If it's really a capacity issue like the residents think it is than min-maxing for efficiency by taking away space for cars and replacing with something else that moves more people in the same amount of space (600-1,600 per lane per hour for a car-only street and 7,500 per hour in each direction for a two-way bike lane according to the National Association of City Transportation Officials) should be the priority. Doubly so if school pick up is what's causing the capacity crunch since separated bike infrastructure means the road is accessible to children.

    • @AdamSmith-gs2dv
      @AdamSmith-gs2dv 2 года назад +25

      I agree, there is no reason for that much street parking in a neighborhood where everyone has a driveway. They can easily do away with one of the parking sides

    • @mingchi1855
      @mingchi1855 2 года назад +7

      @@AdamSmith-gs2dv Ppl really love to use garage as a workshop, which I get it. But I don't get why they don't use the driveway and insist on parking on the street. DO they really have that many guests or visitors?

    • @yarrik701
      @yarrik701 2 года назад +2

      @@mingchi1855 im some cases, maybe when you have multiple driving family members who all leave and return hone at different times, and not necessarily in a sequence that doesn't involve playing musical parking spaces.

    • @Deathl2ow
      @Deathl2ow 2 года назад +3

      You don't live out here, the residents didn't think anything because the city implemented the lane overnight without gathering public opinion. public opinion has now deemed the lane more troublesome because it's a new system put in place where people have no experience with how it works and it's also a busy neighborhood and in a part of the city where there are little to no bikers. if they put this lane in la jolla or a neighborhood where bikers are traveling more nobody would be complaining.

    • @rendomstranger8698
      @rendomstranger8698 2 года назад

      @@yarrik701 So have driveways large enough to park 2 cars next to each other. Problem solved. With the added bonus of less lawn maintenance.

  • @Josh-of-all-Trades
    @Josh-of-all-Trades 2 года назад +104

    Woulda been better off with no lines at all. Lines tell us there are rules, you have to be on this side of the line unless it's a dotted line in which case you may cross it but you still should be on one side of the line or the other. No lines = no rules. Less rules = more caution. Many neighborhoods have no lines at all. I share my residential road with dog walkers and bicycles and kids chasing balls and dogs pulling skateboards and even the occasional fpv racing drone. We all get along because we are all cautious and sharing the entire road. We actively avoid collisions even if it means driving on the wrong side of the road. And why not? Its not like there's any lines telling me not to.

    • @halfcookedtorrilla3094
      @halfcookedtorrilla3094 2 года назад +2

      Drivers licenses don’t test driving skill or reflexes, terrible idea unless you have it restricted to “good drivers”

    • @parnikkapore
      @parnikkapore 2 года назад +6

      I think "don't cross dotted lines nonchalantly" is stronger in the US than in europe.

    • @bradarmstrong3952
      @bradarmstrong3952 2 года назад +5

      This is what I came here to write -- thanks for doing so for me! The only add I would make is that they solved the wrong problem: restricting access to only local traffic somehow would solve the real issue and getting rid of the center line would then make perfect sense and work well.

    • @realShadowKat
      @realShadowKat 2 года назад +13

      Came looking for this comment as well. The lines just confuse the situation -- we're taught to stay on one side of the line. If a solid-yellow is so much of a problem, they could have used.... I don't know... a hashed yellow that does permit passing?
      I know cars that have determined near-borderline violent lane-keeping systems that if you start to even casually cross any line (dotted or solid) it starts increasing the force to keep you in what it considers a lane.
      I think there would have been more room (and less backlash) if they removed parking on one side of the street and made it the bi-directional bike lane as opposed to this nonsense they tried.

    • @michaelfaux3137
      @michaelfaux3137 2 года назад +2

      I can't say how it is in practise as I am not driving on US roads, but I do think, that in theory dotted lines should indicate, that crossing over it is allowed if necessary. Apart from that I think, that the whole point of this design is to make vulnerable road users even safer, which is especially important on such a road, which isn't a true neighbourhood street any more. This additional safety is caused by the fact, that a car driver uses on streets with no lines (at least theoretically) the right edge and the driver uses only another part of the if there is an obstacle or a vulnerable road user on the right edge. With the edge-lane-design car drivers drive normally in the middle of the road and only go into the edge lanes, when it is impossible to stay in the center and only after they made sure, that no vulnerable road user is there. This brings additional safety, because there is less time for car drivers in the space of the vulnerable road users, because the drivers should be especially cautious, when they enter the edge lane and because they potentially even drive slower than in a design with no lines, because cars that are driving in the other direction in my space are easier to see and harder to dodge than vulnerable road users that drive in the same direction on the edge of my space.

  • @rachel1426
    @rachel1426 2 года назад +10

    3:00 Cars are not paying the bill. They are the most heavily subsidized by far.

  • @Quendiful
    @Quendiful 2 года назад +15

    The concept is inspired by thousands of unmarked residential streets in the US; and thousands of safe streets featuring this design concept in the Netherlands (the safest place to walk, bike and drive in the world). Your video did an excellent job explaining the science and psychology behind the design concept. Yes, this particular street has too many cars traveling at too high speed for the design concept to work, especially as an introductory, pilot project in this community. Pilot projects featuring this design concept have a much higher probability of acceptance and positive performance if applied to residential streets with motorist volumes of less than 5,000 per day; and coupled with a street design featuring a host of features (vertical and horizontal deflection and color marking) that effectively achieve prevailing motorist speeds of less than 20mph. Traffic engineering is a discipline that specializes in designing streets that achieve the desired prevailing speed. If they say they can't achieve the target speed (20mph or less) with design, they are not good engineers. Hire engineers who are confident in their abilities and actually know something about traffic engineering and street design.

    • @SmallSpoonBrigade
      @SmallSpoonBrigade Год назад +2

      The difference here is that you don't usually have any markings on those streets and they are clearly too narrow for more than one vehicle at a time. (obvious exceptions for two motorcycles or two bicycles)

    • @chunkyrabbit1032
      @chunkyrabbit1032 8 месяцев назад +2

      @@SmallSpoonBrigade here in the netherlands they're also too narrow for more than 1 vehicle at a time and yet we drive fine with that in place. I think this more or less shows the level of driving americans posess compared to us

    • @Loanshark753
      @Loanshark753 4 месяца назад

      I think the side lanes should not be cycle lanes, just supplementary lanes, as I am extremely skeptical of cars in them.

  • @SnekInASuit
    @SnekInASuit 2 года назад +49

    I saw this and immediately thought of a hundred different roads here in Pittsburgh. WITHOUT these markings, we already drive on them exactly like this. This city has too many hilly, curvy, narrow streets that are two way with barely (or not) enough room for two cars to get past each other (let alone one to get through sometimes), and people already know that without markings, you just take it slow and go wherever makes sense. It really shows how incompetent the complaining drivers are, and the lack of proficiency they have with their vehicles, if they're worried about crashing into someone head-on while they have perfect visibility and a functioning brake. Literally just use your discretion and be careful. I'd love to see some markings similar to those put down here, just to codify what we already do a ton of; driving in the middle of the street at a comfortable speed until we see someone else coming head-on. If we can do it with all of our sometimes VERY BLIND hills and bends, what's stopping flat, straight roads from accommodating even more traffic than they had there?
    Honestly, I'm all for anything that forces other drivers to have to concentrate a little harder, while making things easier for non-drivers, and I LOVE driving. I couldn't get by without driving. Even still, too many people don't respect the difficulty, danger, and RESPONSIBILITY that comes with piloting a several-ton hunk of metal powered by (most commonly) exploding dinosaur juice. If they can't handle that, get them off the road. It'll make it safer for all of us.
    EDIT: Also, here in Pittsburgh, we do cross the double yellow to go around "share the road" cyclists. Everyone does this when it's safe to. So again, there is no difference in the road anyway. Just be a better driver.

    • @JohnRunyon
      @JohnRunyon 2 года назад +9

      Bingo re: without the markings, people will already drive as intended. But, *with* the markings, people in cars will believe they can't use the bike lanes, not to mention that the default driving position will be "in the middle of the road" instead of "to the side except as needed to pass" (as it should be), and it is completely unclear who is required to yield to who - because you're both within your lane heading straight towards each other, instead of crossing the centerline to pass.

    • @mr.norris3840
      @mr.norris3840 2 года назад +4

      @@JohnRunyon Well, you should be driving not on bike lanes by default. If there are oncoming automobiles, then one of you yields to a bike lane. It is so freaking intuitive, but I guess North Americans also struggle with basic roundabouts, so what do I know

    • @JohnRunyon
      @JohnRunyon 2 года назад +6

      @@mr.norris3840 Well, you shouldn't be driving in the middle of the road by default.
      That's entirely the point; there shouldn't be bike lanes here because there's not enough width for them. Having cars entering the bike lane every time another car is coming towards them is far more dangerous than having them overtake whenever they need to pass a bike.

    • @mr.norris3840
      @mr.norris3840 2 года назад

      @@JohnRunyon It is so not. I mean, they are literally everywhere in the Netherlands. They are there, because the work best

    • @SnekInASuit
      @SnekInASuit 2 года назад +1

      @@JohnRunyon Unfortunately the latter half of your point is moot here. People DO drive in the middle of the road here, and it IS unclear who has to yield to who, even on a lot of roads with a double-yellow. There are plenty of parked cars on either side that make it impossible for someone to comfortably stay on their side of the road, and if two cars need to pass each other between two more parked cars, you can expect maybe two inches of clearance between each of the four cars on average. Having the markings here would clear up confusion more than anything else, instead of leaving us to stare at someone driving literally atop the double-yellow like "is this illegal, or..."

  • @jacktattersall9457
    @jacktattersall9457 2 года назад +77

    That sort of sharing the entire road surface is common on most local streets in the Netherlands: a 30km/hr speedlimit and intersections at sidewalk level, probably without stop signs or traffic lights just shark teeth yeild indicators. And if the drivers don't know to share the road and hurt anyone, well the driver is in a hell of a lot of trouble (drivers are generally assumed to be at fault in all cases unless it can be proven that the vulnerable road user expressly did something wrong).

    • @ThePizzabrothersGaming
      @ThePizzabrothersGaming Год назад +2

      50km/hr they still work even

    • @jacktattersall9457
      @jacktattersall9457 Год назад +3

      @@ThePizzabrothersGaming I'm not so sure about that. I live in Toronto, Canada, and cars tend not to interact with pedestrians at 40 or 50km/hr.

    • @ThePizzabrothersGaming
      @ThePizzabrothersGaming Год назад

      @@jacktattersall9457 they use traffic calming or lights for intersections, but sections for cyclists + cars can be 50 just fine

    • @willythemailboy2
      @willythemailboy2 9 месяцев назад +3

      At least in the US there are effectively zero streets - even neighborhood streets - that have speed limits that low. The standard is 30 mph or roughly 50 kph. The only place you will see 30-ish kph speed limits are school zones and those are routinely ignored.

    • @roter7991
      @roter7991 8 месяцев назад +1

      ​​@@willythemailboy230mph? Anywhere I've ever been residential streets are 25mph. Still, I agree that it should be lower. When on my own street I drive between 15-20 mph. Just doesn't feel safe at 25. Also, where I am, the middle school and the elementary school are both on a 5 lane arterial/connector road with a 35-45 mph speed limit, yet I always see people slow down for both school zones. I think the main problem is enforcement as there are police regularly patrolling the road during that time, and one of the police's favourite speed trap hides is at the beginning of the middle school's zone(treeline obstructing a small parking lot for the local little league field, which goes out directly onto the road).

  • @zleonz1234
    @zleonz1234 2 года назад +20

    Most Americans are too "binary" when it comes to driving. They don't really know and are not accustomed to things like yield signs and roundabouts which are common in other countries.

    • @merryhunt9153
      @merryhunt9153 2 года назад

      You are wrong. We Americans are familiar with yield signs. As for roundabouts, the problem with them is that local people are familiar with the layout and whiz through them, frightening and endangering people from out of town.

  • @Mark.Watson
    @Mark.Watson Год назад +2

    I think proving who is at fault in an accident would be an issue.

  • @NoorquackerInd
    @NoorquackerInd 2 года назад +11

    If they're really worried about head-on crashes happening, that's just their fault for not stopping in a neighborhood. It's a neighborhood, _kids play there_, it's not an interstate

    • @jceess
      @jceess 2 года назад

      I guarantee you that kids are not playing on this road. Every city has "neighborhood" streets like this that are basically mini-arterials, very unpleasant to live on. At least they are a source of slightly more affordable housing...

  • @sheepdog401
    @sheepdog401 2 года назад +5

    He gave the answer "remove all the road lines and people will just drive properly and give each other room".

  • @TheSullie1
    @TheSullie1 2 года назад +13

    Maybe the bigger problem with Gold Coast Dr. is that they need to enforce selective permeability. Keep people in cars from having an easy east west path that isn't on an arterial road. That would quiet down those neighborhood streets to where you wouldn't need pavement treatments

    • @laurencefraser
      @laurencefraser 2 года назад

      It would also make traffic on the arterials worse... which is a good thing if you've got public transit that will actually accommodate the needs of a decent percentage of the drivers (which will drop the road users and speed traffic up again) and are trying to get people to actually use it. Not so much if you don't.

  • @kailahmann1823
    @kailahmann1823 Год назад +5

    The Netherlands (ETW60), Germany (EKL4) and other countries even have similar designs outside the buildup area: The actual road is only wide enough for one car or barely for passenger cars to pass each other, while there is a separate area (especially in Germany often just gravel) if busses or trucks have to pass each other.

    • @Loanshark753
      @Loanshark753 4 месяца назад

      Smart however the difference is that does are clearly not cycle lanes, and cyclists understandably dislike cars in them so maybe they should be unmarked or be marked with a special non bike shared lane or just a no parking sign.

  • @Arlae_Nova
    @Arlae_Nova 2 года назад +13

    In the Netherlands this has been one of the standard configurations for a looooong time.

    • @Tiger313NL
      @Tiger313NL 2 года назад +1

      Yep, works fine here. But most people have an aversion to change. :)

    • @reddykilowatt
      @reddykilowatt 2 года назад +3

      yeah i think i saw them in a Rembrandt painting 😊

    • @Arlae_Nova
      @Arlae_Nova 2 года назад

      @@reddykilowatt alright, you got me sniffing through my nose haha

    • @yabbaguy
      @yabbaguy 2 года назад +1

      That was in Michael Williams’ video backdrop!! Did you spot it?

    • @Tiger313NL
      @Tiger313NL 2 года назад

      @@reddykilowatt Hahah. You're probably right! XD

  • @zancrus9629
    @zancrus9629 2 года назад +61

    I love how the engineer goes "If I'm on a street and there could be a car coming by golly I'm paying attention" has he met the average American driver? There are tons of people driving out there that I wouldn't trust to drive Tonka truck let alone a car. Also why the double yellow line? Doesn't that make it illegal to make a turn into most of the driveways?

    • @eddarby469
      @eddarby469 2 года назад +17

      ... About the double yellow line ... No, it does not prohibit you from making a left turn.

    • @Beeks81
      @Beeks81 2 года назад +9

      The solid line only prevents passing, not turning. Well, "strongly suggests you should not pass, but is still a painted line".

    • @TroyC68
      @TroyC68 2 года назад +6

      Here in Canada a single solid line up the middle means the same... why waste the paint :P
      But it is also illegal to back out of a driveway onto a street.... if you cannot turn around in your driveway you are required to back into your driveway...

    • @eddarby469
      @eddarby469 2 года назад +5

      @@TroyC68 We don't have a law about backing out of a driveway in the US, yet. I think backing in is the sensible thing, and then pulling out. Why pull out into an uncertain environment when you could back in to a fixed environment? I also back in or pull through when parking at the store. Research shows it reduces accidents.

    • @meme5887
      @meme5887 2 года назад

      @@TroyC68 we have single solid lines as well. Towns are just wonky and like to just pull out of a drawing hat.

  • @kristianferrari8764
    @kristianferrari8764 2 года назад +11

    I mean a lot of people in the US can't figure out how to use roundabouts, doesn't surprise me that they have problems with this

    • @20thcenturygamer22
      @20thcenturygamer22 2 года назад

      Oh yeah we could combat this by looking and thinking. But it appears too many people think "fuck it I'll just plow into that car"

    • @AdamSmith-gs2dv
      @AdamSmith-gs2dv Год назад +2

      The problem is when most people see marked bike lanes they think they arent allowed to drive there. That's the case every time I have seen a bike lane

  • @Trainfan1055Janathan
    @Trainfan1055Janathan 8 месяцев назад

    "Gold St has people backing out of their driveways onto it."
    If you think that's bad, in Pennsylvania, we have people backing out of their driveways onto state highways where the speed limit is 55mph! In my three years as a school bus driver, I've witnessed several accidents on the _exact same_ stretch of road, all of which were caused by some entering or leaving their driveway.
    As a city bus driver, I almost rear-ended someone who stopped in the middle of the highway for seemingly no reason, did not signal their intentions, did not put their 4-ways on, and even tried to back up, as I was approaching them and trying frantically to stop _in the rain_ ! Luckily I did, but there was a long line of people tailgating me that could've rear-ended me as a result.

  • @jakesaari7652
    @jakesaari7652 2 года назад +29

    "Cars get 1st bid because they're paying the bill". Now that's an interesting take. Tax and other revenue from car use contributes but a small portion to road construction and maintenance. The property and business owners are contributing far more.

    • @DrJams
      @DrJams 2 года назад +2

      Stop watching anti car videos

    • @ErdTirdMans
      @ErdTirdMans 2 года назад +11

      @@DrJams Stop watching pro-car videos and start watching realistic videos

    • @jakesaari7652
      @jakesaari7652 2 года назад +2

      @@DrJams Get in line and don't question anything. Better to just go along with what they tell you and to not think for yourself.

    • @zephyros256
      @zephyros256 2 года назад +1

      No idea how it works on the US, but is the tax/revenue on car use going directly to the category "road maintenance" (to illustrate: "Gas tax" => "road maintenance")? Or is it done (like in multiple other countries) in a way that the tax and revenue is collected in the total budget before spending it on maintenance (to illustrate: "Gas tax" => "Total Budget" => "maintenance") ?

    • @sirquasi
      @sirquasi 2 года назад +1

      @@zephyros256 car taxes don't cover the cost of car infrastructure.

  • @KarimMaassen
    @KarimMaassen 2 года назад +29

    These are actually very common in the Netherlands and work really well. Of course, here people are actually taught to pay attention to bikes and other participants of the road.
    These types of roads are only used for 60km/h or slower and are proven to be extremely safe as they make way for bikes plus they add to the visual cue that this is a shared road. Hence why one would need to pay extra attention, adjust speed and just don’t be an idiot in general.

    • @mypdf
      @mypdf 2 года назад +2

      I have seen them here in Germany, usually there is only a „optional bike lane@ on one side though. Not really confusing though.

    • @andhisband
      @andhisband 2 года назад +4

      You must have missed the part where the narrator talked about how this road is used. There is so much traffic from people arriving/leaving work that the arteries between the freeways and work places are clogged during morning and afternoon rush hours. Many people then use this alternate route through residential neighborhoods. A lot of those people continue to drive at freeway speeds (>50 mph) which is twice as fast as the roads were designed for. Setting up this striping scheme on these roads was extremely dangerous without doing anything to effect the speeding problem. (If you're thinking that that's not what you saw in the video, of course you didn't: nobody would go out on that street during a traffic rush, and that includes this video crew.)

    • @ElectricityTaster
      @ElectricityTaster 2 года назад +1

      can you giver me an example of one? I'm surprised the Netherlands would have such a design. I've heard places where cars are guests and the roads are cobblestone and narrow to slow down cars, but never heard of this monstrosity existing in the nether regions.

    • @pizzablender
      @pizzablender 2 года назад +1

      @@ElectricityTaster This would be used in quiet streets, not busy ones. and with speed bumps. But I think it's rare nowadays.

    • @Luuk1983
      @Luuk1983 2 года назад +2

      @@andhisband Agreed that this does not always work on every street. But in America, the way speed limits are enforce usually is by just adding speed signs without actually doing something about the way the road 'feels' and looks. The best way to enforce speed limits is by designing the street so drivers will automatically drive slower. One of the ways to do this is to make the street optically smaller. Many 60 km/h (37mph) rural streets have this design. They have no middle lane markings. Ofcourse you cannot use this design in high speed, high traffic situations. But to me, the way the street was designed in the video seemed perfectly fine.

  • @ethanheckman
    @ethanheckman 2 года назад +16

    2:57 cars don’t pay the bills anymore because our gas tax money doesn’t go to roads. The way we’ve built our road network is so unaffordable that non-car owners are subsidising those who do own cars. Why do you insist that cars are the priority on every street? That mindset is why people not in a car are treated as second class citizens when trying to use our shared public space.

    • @vincentchirico2531
      @vincentchirico2531 2 года назад +9

      Yeah gas taxes haven't fully paid for the roads since like the 1960s.

    • @AndrewMeyer
      @AndrewMeyer 2 года назад +2

      Doesn't matter whether it's paid for by gas or income tax, roads exist for cars; that's their primary function and basically the whole reason they get any amount of funding at all.
      Picture a road that nobody drives any cars on ever. It's more likely to be dirt or gravel than asphalt or concrete, right?

    • @Aliceintraining
      @Aliceintraining 2 года назад +5

      @@AndrewMeyer that's the problem though, we make "roads" for cars, but fail to complete the right of way so that other methods of travel work. and I hate to break it to you, but a city is meant to hold people, not cars. so if we build everything for cars, then the city becomes hostile to the people who live in it. its not hard to understand. ether build right of way that accepts people with out cars to reduce the need for roads and highways, or make the current right of way less road like and allow for better mix of traffic by not focusing on cars.

    • @DiogenesOfCa
      @DiogenesOfCa 2 года назад +1

      @@AndrewMeyer Sounds AMAZING! Where do I sign up?

    • @AndrewMeyer
      @AndrewMeyer 2 года назад +2

      @@Aliceintraining Cars are by far the most popular method of transportation for a reason. They're superior to almost all other forms of transportation except in a few, very niche circumstances. Roads are made for people, and people overwhelmingly prefer cars.

  • @theeddorian
    @theeddorian 2 года назад +5

    First, I've ridden bicycles for much of my life, and I know the "difficulties" of commuting on a bicycle. However ... A problem you've failed to identify is that many bicyclists persistently ignore rules of the road AND traffic laws. They seem to imagine they are "immune" to a requirement that reasonable precautions be taken by themselves. A city that actually enforces these laws and rules on both motorized and bicycle traffic has far less trouble than cities that ignore cyclists because they are considered to petty to be an income focus for enforcement. In ANY multilaned road, where there are two or more lanes in one direction, the national rule is that slower traffic _must_ move to the outside of the road. Any vehicle in California with more than five vehicles stacked up behind it can be ticketed for obstructing traffic, even IF they are traveling the speed limit. Bicyclists frequently ignore these laws and rules. They are also prone to suicidaly ignoring stop signs, speed limits, and pedestrians, as well as texting while riding. Bicyclists need a "riders' education" course, and a requirement to be insured to use public roads.

    • @ijustdocomments6777
      @ijustdocomments6777 2 года назад

      "Texting while riding", oh my god, I didn't know this was a thing wtf.

    • @theeddorian
      @theeddorian 2 года назад +1

      @@ijustdocomments6777 I saw a bicylist and a pedestrian collide. I had stopped at a stop sign with a painted crosswalk. The pedestrian strolled into the street looking at her phone and a cyclist in the low wind resistance costume that says "watch for stupid," passed right by ON MY LEFT, just about on the center line. I glanced in time to see he's looking down, texting, no hands on the handles, eyes on his lap. To be honest I rode no hands a lot in college. Anyway, he looked up in time to hit the pedestrian. They both went down and popped up screaming at each other. I edged around them and continued on my way.

  • @kmac2261
    @kmac2261 2 года назад +45

    We have this system a lot where I live. It works very well when people understand it. The markings don't exclude cars but are a continuous reminder to allow room for bicycles. Definitely safer for cyclists in my opinion and acts somewhat as a traffic calming measure. It works if you understand it and can progress beyond your preconceptions of how a rod should look.

    • @lennytate4246
      @lennytate4246 2 года назад +4

      Why can't people with bikes just go on the sidewalk? I honestly think bikes are the dumbest things to be allowed on the road. Constantly they're hit and killed near me on rt22. Because they shouldn't be on a 45-65mph road.

    • @tweakernation
      @tweakernation 2 года назад +6

      @@lennytate4246 You ever been on a sidewalk these days? Never big enough to properly accommodate pedestrians and bikes at the same time and they're never maintained regularly. We should be following the Netherlands approach with actual properly sized and distanced sidewalks

    • @elizabethhenning778
      @elizabethhenning778 2 года назад +8

      @@lennytate4246 Why can't people with cars just watch where they're going and make room for pedestrians and cyclists instead of having the entitled attitude that they're the only ones who belong there?

    • @lennytate4246
      @lennytate4246 2 года назад +3

      @@elizabethhenning778 it's a 65mph highway with hundreds of thousands of cars on it every day. They should not be on it.

    • @elizabethhenning778
      @elizabethhenning778 2 года назад +2

      @@lennytate4246If it's a 65mph road, then there's no sidewalk. Sounds like you just want to hog the road. Or maybe the speed limit shouldn't be 65mph.

  • @dave_jeep
    @dave_jeep 2 года назад +10

    people hate it because it's new. just like roundabouts in the Midwest. OMG that news clip about you tho 🤣

    • @Cognitive_player
      @Cognitive_player 2 года назад

      Hmmm, no I think it's bad because the bikes and cars share the same road and the bike lanes are worse than a bicycle gutter because it uses dotted instead of solid lines. If I saw something like this while biking, I would just go on the sidewalk. Bicycles and Cars should never mix.

    • @pointillism7426
      @pointillism7426 2 года назад

      The problem is that not everyone is a careful or cautious Driver, so with a painted bike lane on a shared street you know what’s about to happen

    • @agrofindastation
      @agrofindastation 2 года назад

      If the road you live on suddenly overnight had a completely different traffic pattern and you were not informed about it, would you be happy? Especially if it is a traffic pattern you have never seen before in your entire life?

  • @zoicon5
    @zoicon5 2 года назад +20

    Buffalo took Linwood Avenue (which is a one way, mostly residential street) from two car lanes to one, adding a bike lane on either side. Arguably an easier case than San Diego's as it was a one-way street and the new scheme wasn't as unfamiliar to people as "Advisory Bike Lanes". Also the city spent a lot of time on communicating with residents and getting feedback before implementing their plan. And even then there were some hiccups with the rollout (which they fixed). It's been about ten years now and it's worked out well. But I think if they'd just sprung it on people without prior discussion there would have been serious pushback.

    • @chaos.corner
      @chaos.corner 2 года назад +1

      A one way street would be fine (if other circumstances allowed). Putting the fastest traffic on the road in direct collision course with each other is the issue.

    • @johnathin0061892
      @johnathin0061892 2 года назад

      Buffalo is really a battleground in the war on cars. Seriously.

    • @Normal1855
      @Normal1855 2 года назад +1

      And these geniuses decided to keep to directions of traffic in a single lane. They should have made it 1 way, for this to work. I can see many accidents on this road.

  • @Dudebalf
    @Dudebalf Год назад +4

    Depending on the amount of the traffic these roads can be good. We (Denmark) have had some of those for quite a few years now