Daniil's a lot more interesting with the fact that he's the plaything of children. Daniil is a doctor, one that seeks to cure death, and at every turn he faces hate, pain and failure. Everything he seeks and fighs for is taken and no on listens. Meanwhile the ones who create this tale for him are children at a funeral. It's theur way of coping with the lose, punishing Daniil as a catch all for the doctors and medicine that failed the deceased.
The narrative of Artemy saving the town over the Polyhedron, partly at the behest of the Powers That Be is so very clever. Artemy is as close to a protagonist that the kids have; given his character arc of criminal to Foreman, and the fact that all of his bound are children, the characters the Powers That Be would empathize with. Not to mention that as a menhku, he ‘knows the lines’, which can be taken in a theatrical sense to mean that he knows he script. Without the influence of the player, I think the children would act out the Haruspex ending over any other. The kids actively dislike Daniil, burning his life’s work off screen out of spite, and Clara has more power than the kids would ever really want to deal with. Anyways, that’s why I think we just got the Haruspex route first in Pathologic 2 thank youuuu
Oh, totally! I think Daniil was the right choice for the intro route in the first Pathologic, but Artemy has a much more straightforward story. I'm really interested to see what they do with the Bachelor route in Pathologic 2 since having the Haruspex route first allows them to do weirder and more interesting things with Daniil's story arc now that players will already be introduced to the world and basic mechanics.
The only reason that Clara had to sacrifice her bound is because she required enough blood to cure everyone after the plague ran rampant for 12 days. Her next set of bound should only need to make occasional blood donations until Artemy has a sizable stockpile of Panacea. At which point she is free to join up with General Block and She will insist on making the Albino her advisor and he will wear a cute little tuxedo with a 3-foot tie.
Thanks for covering the Herb Brides in depth. I noticed none of the other reviewers/essayers ever really delved into their role in the story and the world building, much less how much it sucks to be them in P1.
Yeah, I have complicated feelings on the Herb Brides in Pathologic 2, but in the original, their treatment is genuinely one of the biggest reasons why I think the "save the town" ending has problems.
After watching this I feel like the best ending is... the "bad ending", where the town and Polyhedron both get destroyed. At least from the point of view of the Powers that be. Because maybe it's better for them, to accept that things change and everything has it's end. They build this town to cope with the loss. But now they cling to their little play, unable to let go, handing their story and scenario over to their dolls, giving them the right to decide, just desperately trying anything to keep the pretense going. But it's been 12 days... and maybe it's time to move on, leave the sandbox, and do other things, maybe even try creating some new worlds. Maybe even... a bit gentler ones. Beautiful series of videos. Can't wait for more. Just kidding, I can wait, don't rush anything, go at Your own pace (which is honestly very good anyway, for such a well written, long-form video essays) no matter how long it would take X3
Oooh I like your thoughts on the “bad ending.” That’s really interesting. And thank you for your kind words! I’m really enjoying making these videos and talking with people about Pathologic here, but it’s been so much easier to do with all of the encouragement I’ve been getting.
I think the implication with the "bad ending" was that they never finish their story... The game keeps going and the children may or may not be shown to be dead by the end?
As far as the meta-narrative goes: yes, probably the best decision (assuming Night Killer's interpretation isn't correct). Paradoxically though, it is the worst fate for the town and its people.
1 element to this choice that not a lot of people talk about is how the other player characters behave in each route being their worst selves. As in can you trust Artemy or Clara to act wisely when your the bachelor, can you trust the bachelor and the harospex to be okay in Clara's route. They activly show that they did not expience their true story when they arent the player character, and in a sense, maybe their endings are inherently worse when playing a different route
Someone's already said this but if you keep the town's existence as a sandcastle in mind the real solution is the "bad ending," tearing it all down and starting over. If you remove the tower (that I cant spell) then the rot remains. To the people of the town this means the sickness will only come back, and get worse If you destroy the town, remove the rotten sand, and make a new town then the original problem remains. Water will once again leak into the sand, rotting it. The people will suffer another outbreak , and their "Utopia" will fall as well. The solution here is to do both. Remove the rot and sorce of the water that causes it. The townspeople will fall, but they are dolls. They are real to themselves, to each other, but the game implies that the children have played these sorts of games before. The dolls will be moved to a new sandcastle, given new lives, with no memory of the tragedy they played last round. That's assuming Clara can't just magic away the rot I guess. Who knows, Clara's weird
I might be mixing up P2 and Classic but I thought the Haruspex ending says that removing the Polyhedron will wash out all the blood and basically end the Kin? I think they were heavily implying the plague stuff will be gone forever along with the magical stuff, both the natural and the Kain architecture.
@TxWIll The implication of the endings in Classic and P2 are very different. That’s definitely the case for P2, but in P1 the Artemy ending is to get rid of the polyhedron. The polyhedron is tied less to the existence of miracles in P1 and more to the hubris of man in subverting the laws of nature, which the plague does not like.
Second watch-through here. After rewatching both Hbomberguy and Sulmatul's videos and comparing it your analysis, I have concluded that you are the most knowledgeable person when it comes to Pathologic. You go into so much more detail, present unique viewpoints to the game I've never considered before, perfectly deconstruct the themes, while also having a very in-depth understanding of all the characters. The last aspect is amplified in your April-fools video. While you might have found the idea of a potluck with Pathologic characters "silly" (which is kinda correct because I laughed my a** off), there is no better analogy to surface the core personalities of all the characters, at least better than what I would've come up with. It's like you personally know all the people in the town, like you transferred your consciousness unto the main characters. All this is a testament on how much Pathologic meant to you, and I seriously doubt anyone else can talk about this game with more passion or dedication. This was an Incredible series, and I hope you do great at all your other endeavors - whenever you may choose to pursue them.
thank you thank you thank you for touching on the colonialism aspect of the story. i've seen so many people avoid it when discussing and analyzing the game -- which just boggles my mind. it is the heart of the story, in my opinion. also just a big thank you in general for this brilliant series! your videos have probably been my favorite of all the pathologic analysis videos i've seen. you approach the story in such a human and understanding way. you aren't overdramatic about it, which i appreciate because a lot of other creators kind of adopt this sort of "tHiS gAmE iS sO hArD i CaNt iMaGiNe LiViNg LiKe ThiS" affect when it's the reality (or at least partially the reality) of a lot of impoverished, disabled, and/or colonized people. it's really not that far removed from what i and my family have experienced (i'm disabled and native).
I am so happy this resonated with you. Like I said in the video, I would honestly love to do a video about colonialism and both Pathologic 1 and Pathologic 2, but it's such a sensitive and complicated topic that I don't want to approach it before I'm ready to do it justice. But yes, I completely agree that it's something that isn't discussed enough (particularly with respect to Pathologic 2, in my opinion, where it plays a much larger role).
I was actually considering doing a video on this game looking specifically at the colonialism faced by the kin, their caste system as presented in game, and a bit about actual steppe cultures. As well as the parallels to the kin with contemporary as well as ancient steppe peoples, such as the proto indo-Europeans. Seems to me that they’re based on an amalgamation of current and historical steppe cultures. It’s all very interesting stuff and it’s just begging to be looked at with both a post-colonial lens and with attention paid to the history of Russia/eastern Europe’s indigenous nomad populations.
@@Glassandcandy Oh god, yes. Yes indeed. Being brazilian myself, with minor native american ascendency, of which I am deprived of even the most basic of data, other than those of the genetic, relative sort, I'm all for it. It is indeed an extremely underappreciated and underanalyzed aspect of the game and the historical grounding of its developers, from the late antiquity steppe migrations to modern federal integration, specially concerning the buryati. There is a great article called cattle in Buryat mythology and ritual by A. A. Badmaev that I highly recommend as a focal point. Anyways, here's to strongly hoping you get around to it.
Haven't watched the first two but wound up directed to this one. I definitely appreciate the analysis of the endings here and especially appreciate the inclusion of the secret ending as framing as to why one ending might be better than the other. I'll definitely tune into the next video you make, too - but if I can be forward about it, I hope your next video also happens to include the secret-secret ending with the Executor and the Tragedian standing in for the developers, because I can't help but feel that the conversation they have with you is relevant in respect to the very nature of the game. As for me with regards to endings, I don't think there is any one 'best' ending that can be truly defined, because ultimately the values we have as individuals and the personal experiences we have as the puppeteers of doll protagonists will intrinsically shape what we value and why we value it - in the exact same way that those same doll protagonists value different things themselves. Saving the polyhedron could be viewed as abandoning those who do not fit into the planned utopia of those who would see it spared, for example. It is certainly a marvel, it is certainly progression of science in a near miraculous way and it has done some good in that it protected the children within it, those same children are planned to be ousted by the elite who constructed it because they do not "fit". The good the polyhedron COULD do, if spared, doesn't matter if the elite ruling class that wind up controlling decide not to use it FOR that good. And meanwhile, the minorities who definitely won't benefit from it at all will be left behind, destroyed in the initial shelling of the town, or left to starve and rot. Saving the town, by that same notion, sacrifices that very potential good the polyhedron could potentially bring about. "Nothing ventured, nothing gained" - the loss of the polyhedron is all but a sure assurance that it will never bring about anything good, because it was never given the chance to. Stagnation and a stubborn refusal to accept change is little more than a guarantee of a slow death; maybe it doesn't get worse, but it certainly doesn't get better. The town is left in a perpetual limbo, and maybe the plague does come back and maybe the plague doesn't, but what we know for a fact is the town is still strange and people still die and stereotypes remain unbroken. Ironically enough, I have the complete opposite view to you for Clara's ending. I would love to live in a world where progress can be made without sacrifice, but we simply do not; and Pathologic certainly does not. And even funnier, I agree that Clara's ending represents the strongest chance for the cycle to be repeated, but I'd like to offer this argument as to why that isn't necessarily as bad as you say: there is time from her ending until the next outbreak of plague for both the town and the polyhedron to progress. It isn't that Clara's ending guarantees the safety of anybody, because it doesn't, but it does give them all more time. More than twelve measly, sad days. And if the next plague outbreak occurs and there's no measurable change, who says you NEED to choose Clara's ending a second time? It's a strange assumption to make, that picking her ending once means you must do so again if the same situation occurs. In fact, most people in that position would choose the course of action they did not take the first time, assuming that the situation is identical and there has been literally no improvement. Clara's ending to me seems the most hopeful, because it allows both the polyhedron AND the town to survive with knowledge of the outbreak that happened, and for those otherwise warring factions to perhaps come together to try and ensure that should it happen in the future, there's a new ending you can choose. An ending where nobody needs to die, where progress doesn't need to be sacrificed, an ending where culture doesn't need to be destroyed. Not a guarantee, but then, nothing ever is. And for the record, nobody has to be religious to agree with your finishing sentiment. Your life is intrinsically valuable because it is your life; it is your struggles and your hardships, your decisions for better or for worse, your responsibilities, your successes, your failures and to the rest of this big wide universe, these things are inconsequential at best and will not be remembered. But you have to live with them, for your entire existence, and so to you - the only person who matters - they are all uniquely valuable and will be until that fateful day where your existence ends.
I really like your perspective on Clara’s ending. It’s still probably my least favorite, but I think that’s a really interesting way to look at it. Haha I actually meant that for people who aren’t religious, the idea of receiving life advice from a higher power probably sounds crazy, but you’re absolutely right about life having intrinsic meaning regardless of whether you think there is a god (or gods!) or not. And to quote myself from the video, “Don’t worry, my friends. I did not forget about the secret ending.” ;) Based on what you’ve said here, I think you’ll like my next video.
my biggest issue here is...well- im not actually sure if your position is that Clara's ending is "good" or if its the "best of the three", Im not sure about the latter- but i really really don't think its good. So, just as a little thing- if you don't think its "good" then please disregard this. Clara's ending is really really complicated- mostly because i think its more ambigious (i think due to a lack of time to fully polish clara's storyline). One of the things that bothers me a lot about both the Harupex's and the Changeling's story is that I don't think it actually properly addresses the plague. The plague was "caused" by the polyhedron distrubing pockets of congealed blood in the ground....blood which seeped into the ground and allowed the virus to spread due to the years of human and animal sacrifice. Even if we say the polyhedron is *a* cause, it is certainly not the only one. Even if "oh man, we can make more cures in the future" i feel like its not great that we just aren't going to acknowledge that the ground the town lays in IS rotten, probably permanently. The thing is, I still don't like Daniil's ending- it still IS the complete destruction of an entire rich culture- but its the only one that probably permanently ends the plague. To sorta, not ramble anymore- i don't like Clara's ending cuz it doesn't actually solve anything longterm- its more like a maybe bandaid.
So Clara literally just covers her ass and ensues she has a job and power for the rest of her life. Not a bad idea even if she dissociates, her life will be stable. If you could call it that.
After now having watched all three of your videos on Pathologic so far, as someone who hasn't played the game, but been exposed to it by video essays like the ones by hbomberguy or SulMatul, I just want to simply say, I found yours very well argued, compelling, very funny and entertaining throughout (though that might be my inclination towards both self-depricating humor as well as weird and out-of-the-box puns and jokes, who knows). It is very enjoyable to listen to you talk about a topic you care a lot about and watch as the editing of the video smoothly guides me along or throws me little extras again and again. For all the hard work you put into this, the fun I had watching and the joke of "Daniil, no" aswell as Clara's "Magic Hands" song now being stuck in my head, I thank you! I look forward to the other parts of this essay and/or whatever others might follow!
You’re the second person who’s commented about the magic hands song, and I feel so validated. My family mostly thinks it’s weird and annoying when I make up songs about things haha. And thank you for all of your kind words! It is very nice to find a corner of the internet that appreciates my slightly odd humor.
Yeah, Artemy in P1 is a completely different character. I know that’s something Codex Entry plans to talk about when she finally gets around to the Haruspex storyline.
@@PlayheadNorth I still need to play 1, I really enjoyed pathologic 2 and how artemy at least in that interpretation seems to be the only sane person in the entire city (willing to embrace weird magic shit if it turns out to work but having a healthy skepticism and being against the kins more messed up practices). I have some time free soon so I may start playing 1 just so I can get the whole picture through my own eyes. These games really need your own personal feelings through playing them to resonate I feel.
I would really love to see your thoughts on the upcoming installment in the series. Pathologic 3 is focusing on Daniil and knowing how special this character is to you I would really find that to be a super entertaining video. Considering the game isn't even out yet, I'm sure for a fuller length video you'll need more content to actually review it. Nonetheless I'm sure you're equally as excited as the rest of us!
I stumbled across the first video in this series a few hours ago, and I'm already blessed with part three! Keep up the great work! I'm really loving your analysis, it touches on things I haven't heard of in other Pathologic videos
I've played the bachelor's route and only *now*, after watching this video, do I understand what a focus is. This is a really great video, I love how you focused on the themes of each ending and what they mean to the characters. I haven't played the changeling's route yet, but that sounds like a major yikes. You perfectly articulated how I felt after talking the powers that be as Daniil, just feeling so sad for a character that's so fun to make fun of. Also that cliffhanger lmfao. Can't wait for the next video!
Thank you! No lies, I added the bit about the foci, even though it probably wasn’t strictly necessary for the video, because I know it’s confusing even for people who have played the game. In fact, I noticed new things about the whole moving of souls when I was studying the transcripts of conversations while making this video. Why can’t the Kains just actually explain things in a way that makes sense???
i can tell why Bad Gruef has accent. You see, in russian he speaks with jargon and slang that is closely tight up with prison and law perpetrating "culture". I guess translators thought that's a way to adapt it
I finally got around to watching these videos (including the semi-hidden fourth one lol) and enjoyed them a lot, this is one of the best discussions of the core plot and endings I've come across. Nice to see a fellow Daniil fan, the man tries his best! I agree that every ending is imperfect, and in the end all we can do is choose. There's an interesting idea I read that the game is its own focus, like the polyhedron, only it is meant to capture the soul of the player. The miracle of Pathologic is that with these digital puppets and model town it absorbs a real human soul who imbues it with genuine meaning, and who comes away differently. It's certainly true to the influence the game has had on me. I hope something on this level comes out about Pathologic 2 one day. You mentioned having a complicated relationship with P2, and the endings definitely get into some thorny territory with the Kin and colonialism. However I find P2's endings so interesting, how they represent two competing desires within the Haruspex, rather than P1 where each character is pretty set in their ways. Part of me is inspired by how these were your first videos and they turned out so well and I think "maybe I should try" lol. Everyone inevitably turns to the internet to get out their pathologic ideas eventually I suppose. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on P2 if you ever feel like tackling it.
Im OBSESSED with this series its so well made! Plus your voice is very soothing and the entire series is very enjoyable because of the amazing analysis. Totally related to feeling bad about Daniil I love my trash man. Patiently waiting for more xx
Thank you! I think my voice is kind of nasally, so I’m glad you find it soothing haha. I’m working on the next video now and hoping to get it out before the end of the month.
I just found this channel. It feels like it has exactly the tone and the thoughtfulness I always want but almost never find. Thank you. I can’t wait to binge everything.
I had just finished your second video yesterday and was super anticipating this one, didn’t have to wait long :) you give such quality content, really hope more people find these
so sappy comment time, i found your series during a pretty rough time for me, like havent we all had a rough year, and the ending, where you talk about life still being meaningful meant so much to me when i really needed it most, i still come back and rewatch them as a pick me up and also a way to listen to something i cant really talk to other people about, so… thank you for making this series of videos, and your others as well, im wishing you the best 💖
Thank you so much for your comment! I made these videos because I was also lonely and didn't have anyone to talk about this game with. I'm so glad that they've meant something to you.
That moment at the end.....that was real and I felt the sincerity in your words and the context in why you even brought it up. I hope you continue to make videos in the future and bring your own wit and charm to whatever subject you discuss, after watching all three parts to this video series I can say this was one of the easiest subs I ever did.
Having watched practically every dive into Pathologic on the internet, deep and shallow, I can say unequivocally that yours is the most profound by many leagues, and that is not something I was prepared for. I hope you do make that next video about what it all means. It suddenly feels very necessary that you do, in fact. Godspeed.
Thank you! I actually did make the next video, but it's currently unlisted. You can see if if you go to the pinned tweet on my Twitter page. I'm working on releasing a revised version, but it's taking me a while...
@@PlayheadNorth I just finished it. An absolutely superb, gripping, existential conclusion to what I would agree is perhaps the best game ever imagined. The fact that it was imagined by a man who had never even written a game before is nothing short of stunning. I do hope you decide to list it eventually. Whatever Nikolay did or did not do, I do not think it should change the merit of the art he gave us with this masterpiece. Art overcomes the artist and becomes transcendent, that's its function, its apotheosis.
This has been amazing. I realised I've forgotten a lot of things about the haruspex his playthrough. Yeah, the kin beliefs can be really troubling to say in the least. As a point aside, I've noticed that a lot of people (mostly Americans; not you, though) seem to draw hard, nearly one-on-one comparisons between the Kin and the native population or black population in America. Mostly townfolk treatment of kin = bad, kin practices and culture = good. This is.. a bit problematic because while the treatment of the Kin at the hands of the town, has admittedly bad colonialistic overtones, it seemingly disregards the fact that the Kin practice ritualistic sacrifice for example or treat their women horrendously. I'm biracial myself with roots from an old colony: I don't feel any kinship with the kin whatsoever because their culture and negative implications to me are so foreign and alienating (despite having the same colonialism vibes), that even drawing these comparisons feels wrong. Mostly because it seems to imply that all of the cultures with a colonialist history experience their culture the same way and it mostly also assumes that Russians have the same colonial baggage that the Americans have, which they don't. Perhaps something to keep in mind if you do start making that video. I had a slightly differing interpretation about the crankwheel which changed into a wheel of barrel: I took it to mean that it meant that the town was undergoing technological regression. I dont know if that makes things any better though. A thing about the Kains: you explained the focus and the surrounding context really well. I had a different interpretation of Georgiy and Victor channeling Simon and Nina, other than clinging to the past. To build their Utopia, they needed both Simon and Nina as the building foundation. To me, it added points in to the bachelor's ending. They knew that they were going to die by doing this, but it was either this or let go of their utopian dreams. They chose put their deeds where their mouths were and were willing to die. It's a choice that I can admire. Not every elite is willing to sacrifice themselves but they do always sacrifice a lot of commoners. Also a minor thing to point out: that building that the arrow points to as Olgimsky's house isn't Olgimsky's house. It's the theater. His house stands near the bridge at the right side of the knots. One question, I still have for you personally: what is your favorite ending? (not the objective best ending). The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards Dankovsky's, seeing as the consequences are out in the open. I admit I have never ever liked Clara and after playing her route I liked her even less. It just doesn't sit well with me that her route is all about "judging the sinners" while she herself has some shady origins. Anyway, I'm really looking forward to your next video. Like I said before, the quality is truly superb.
Ack thank you for pointing out the thing about the Olgimskys. I’ll add a correction about the map to the description. This is what happens when you stare at your computer screen for too long while editing lol. Oh man, I hadn’t thought about the wheel as showing them being stagnant in technology as well, but that’s a good point. I also really like your perspective on the Kains. Seriously, I think the Kains get more hate in the fandom than they deserve. At the very very least, they are by far the most self-aware of the ruling families. And also Victor is, like, super nice, even to Clara. Don’t hate on Victor, people. I would definitely like to make a video about colonialism and Pathologic, but I would also like to put that off until I have (hopefully) a bigger platform. My family history is super duper white, and I would really like to put out a poll to hear the perspectives of POC, especially people with indigenous heritage, and non-Americans to get more perspectives on how other people interpreted the Pathologic endings, especially the endings of Pathologic 2. Your thoughts above are really interesting (and honestly, a lot of why I wanted to start making videos in the first place is so I could build a community where I can have these sorts of conversations!). I would also really like to try and do some research about the indigenous peoples of Russia before I attempt such a video. I mean, you’re absolutely right about colonialism not being a monolith. I think indigenous cultures globally have often suffered the same sorts of prejudices, but at the same time, I definitely can’t just equate the Native Americans, whose culture I’m most familiar with, as a 1:1 with e.g. the Buryats of Russia. At any rate, I think I’m going to need to take a break from Pathologic after the next video and make some videos about other indie games I’ve liked. I am really excited that you asked me what my favorite ending is because that’s actually part of my script for the next video!
@@PlayheadNorth yeah, I have never understood the general hatred of the Kains, because Victor and Georgiy are always perfectly respectful. It's especially weird because I feel that if you'd ask most people to choose their picks from all of the ruling houses, they also would choose them over the Olgimskys or the Saburovs. Most of the Utopians are highly ranked in my pathologic tier list mostly because of their fascinating philosophies and way of looking at life. The Stamatins in particular are amazing, especially after Andrei adopts you as the third Stamatin brother, after Dankovsky is mistakenly shot for being Peter lol. I love the dynamic these three have. Bad Grief with his cowboy acccent is still my absolute favorite though. I commend and admire you for wanting to tackle the relationships between the kin and the townfolk. I think it's an extremely interesting topic but I also recognise it as being a wasps' nest, to put it very lightly. I also really like discussions such as these: I tend to hang out in the patholgic reddit forum but there's only like one other fan who has played through all the routes of p1 hd. Most of the discussions, if any, are about p2. It's therefore really nice to have your video essays. Anyways, I'm really looking forward to your next video! Imma subscribe so I don't miss it.
@@chocolatMouse Thanks! I hope the next video doesn’t disappoint. And my gosh, I could do a whole video about the tragic relationship between the Stamatin brothers. I wish I could get Peter a therapist.
@Crystal Kanashii I have some really complicated feelings towards this topic. On the one hand, it is completely true that western cultures tend to depict other cultures badly even when they are trying to depict the other cuture in a good way. It nearly always comes across as the trope of noble savages at best. On the other hand one could argue that IPL depicted the Kin as a subversion of this common trope. The Kin push back hard against the idea of them not only integrating with the townsfolk, but the ending also reveals that even living together with two groups completely seperate isn't possible without one group dying out. Furthermore, the kin also see themselves as animals and not individuals and believe that they things like language is therefore unnecessary. It makes me uncomfortable with regards to IPL for depicting the kin, a colonised group of people, asseeing themselves as animals". However, I think it was mentioned that they tried as hard not to base the kin on any existing culture. And this is the reason why I'm also uncomfortable with some fans of the game drawing easy black and white comparisons between for example the kin and native americans. The kin's beliefs are way way different and the kin's culture has many deliberate negative sides that drawing these comparisons are problematic on the side of the fans as well .
I know from all the questions raised it is probably the smallest and most insignificant, but regarding the weapon skills of Daniil: Conscription. He is from the capital and old enough (I would guess) to have had time for a few months or years of military service on top of his studies. And being the precise and cold person he is, I could totally believe him to be a good shot (especially one who has no problems with aiming to kill, which historically is quite hard to get people to do). Of course that is a very in-universe or "in-the-sandbox" answer. But you can argue the same point with the godchildren in mind: Of course the temporal setting of the garden is completely impossible to pinpoint, but if we assume it's basically anything before the 1990s, where pretty much any european nation, especially in the east, took it's conscription very seriously, they are probably just used to the fact that any man knows how to shoot atleast somewhat. Slightly unrelated, but still interesting in my mind, is the fact that "the country" is at war at the time of the plague. The male inquisitor does not arrive because he is needed at the front (atleast I seem to remember a line pointing to that), the troops are complaining about not doing their actual work etc. In Pathologic it is a far distant background noise, but it shows that the godchildren have war on their minds too. (Or hey, maybe they have another sandbox two meters over, there all the soldiers normally kill each other in an elaborate trench system, and from which Block's unit was ordered away. You can't assume anything with godchildren^^) In Patho 2 war is mentioned more often, with the death of Lara's Father (giving her a better motive to kill Block btw.) and in item descriptions. The revolver touch quote mentions that the civil war has been going on for two years, so if one assumes russia as the setting (instead of just seeing it all as childrens fantasy world and theatric ambition, which I prefer honestly) that results in a precise dating of the setting in 1919 or whereabouts. Interestingly, once asked about the setting, one of the IPL designers answered 1980s Moscow. I often think about that, because while any relation must be allegorically, it still says something about the meta level of the designers and their minds influencing the story. The story of the inception and development of the story of pathologic (starting first with a weird tabletop-theater-mix, then becoming a play, then a video game) is very fascinating in general. It also would make the war in the background Afghanistan, which seems strangely (or perhaps appropriately) fitting for a war that is "somewhere else" but still very much in the minds of the people, be they the inhabitants of the town or the children playing with them. Basically what I'm saying is, the godchildren have violence on their mind. If that comes from living in a violent world, or if their fantasy world just has violent aspects of play to it (which seems more or less normal for children) remains open to speculation. I have to say, thank you for these videos, never before have I thought about interpreting the world the godchildren live in through the stories they create. Although it all is conjecture and cheap attempts at psychology anyhow :D Regarding the reactions of the protagonists and the meaning of life and all that: I think I would be closest to Artemy, if supernatural beings revealed themselves to me. It changes little, I never had ability nor ambition to change anything meaningfully big on the cosmic scale. Only the small circles of relevance and meaning we draw around ourselves can be influenced perceptively by myself, so some godchild throwing corona around has little to do with me or my goals. Meaning is manufactured, not existing naturally.
Conscription is definitely a good answer to why Daniil knows his way around a gun, but I still have trouble believing he was trained to snipe people with a rifle lol. But I like your theories about the war!
also, daniil as a child (as revealed by talking to some children on day 10 i think) wanted to be in the military. it could definitely be that shooting was a hobby of his
I only played pathologic 2, and the herb brides and the way Eva dressed irked me. Not in a way that ruined the game, but more reminded me that I'm playing a video game. There is no scantily clad male counterpart. A tutorial with an herb bride shows her completely topless, and all i could think is "ah yes, any excuse for bewbs." Because if you're writing lore for a game, you can write any justicification for boobs. There are no even any topless men in this world. I was so entranced by this world, but the herb brides reminded me it was a video game and gently took me out of the experience. It wasn't a deal breaker by any means. I really love playing pathologic 2 and am looking forward to pathologic 3. But I was always surprised no other reviewer mentioned how weird it is to see people fully dressed for cold weather and then just Eva and the Herb brides dressed for hot weather.
I know it's been some time, but I just finished binging all your Pathologic videos and they are some of my favorite takes on this wacky misery simulator. I hope these get more attention; they really deserve it!
Interesting set of videos. I do profoundly disagree with your interpretation of Haruspex's ending. Most commonly, (especially with a very strong tarot imagery of both the tower and the wheel) - the wheel represents the exact opposite of the return to status quo. It represents change, usually for the better. The wheel will keep turning, the world keeps moving, the life will keep on being lived. It shows that there is a future. Tyoma will take his place among the kin, yes, but although he doesn't interact with the kids as much in P1 as in P2, every time he tries to convince others of his choice, he speaks of the children. That they will build a new world, a better world. Capella is not her father, the world that she plans to build is very different from the utilitarian world of termites. And while I'm far from impressed of P2 Capella - she ended up being a bit too wishy washy, I do believe in her power in P1. I do believe that she would be able to make this world. Meanwhile, Tower usually also represents change, but abrupt, catastrophic. The tower and the wheel really are equal and opposite. The Utopian ending, though, is genuinely terrifying to me. When Maria or Peter start raving about their world order, their vision is incompatible with life. Their creation has unleashed the plague in the first place, and the new world they want to build is several orders of magnitude more profane, because they want those "miracles" to be the default, stripping them of their wondrous nature. Plus, Maria's utopia (as she said, there is a "top" in utopia) is explicitly a meritocracy, a few select individuals on top grounding everyone else into dirt. Progress for the sake of progress at the cost of human life is not worth much, especially not when the exact same things can usually be also accomplished ethically and without sacrifice. Space travel is the feat of human engineering, our ultimate achievement at overcoming gravity. But the lives that have been lost through it... that has been wasteful. Pointless. Preventable. Because other people took shortcuts, they rushed it. Because they decided to overlook certain things. Because mistakes were made. We have learned many bitter lessons that this is not how science must operate. That regulations must be stricter to ensure the safety of everyone involved. This doesn't mean that you can't strive to overcome gravity. But you must do so as safely as possible. May be, the new Bachelor campaign, whenever it finally comes out, would be able to convince me otherwise, but I didn't really get a strong connection between him and the tower. It was there, on the periphery. He interacted with it a bit, but not enough to fully convince me of its wondrous nature. So it feels like the more appropriate ending for him is to let the plague consume the town than letting Maria do as she pleases. Tyoma has far more motivation and reason to preserve the tower than Danya. (also, it was heavily suggested multiple times that Victor isn't actually channeling Nina. Not the same way that Gregory is able to channel Simon. Victor is just pretending. He would go through ritual self-sacrifice regardless) Fundamentally, you play as a doctor. Haruspex's choice saves lives of the sick. Bachelor's does not. Sacrificing real breathing people in order to preserve a monument... that isn't a path of someone who swore an oath of "first, do no harm". It is _a_ choice that could be made by someone, but to call it the best choice... I do agree with regards to the Changeling. No matter what one of them claims, she is still the personification of the plague. Her blood cult will kill the population just as surely as the plague would, only it would happen slower under a mask of faux innocence (in Plague Inc, the way to kill everyone isn't to go all out, because then the disease ends up starving itself first once it meets active resistance. Rather, you would hide your symptoms, until you are able to touch everyone, and then turn up the lethality). Also, she cannot "save" people on her own. She may be able to prepare the blood, but she still needs Haruspex to make the panacea for cure.
35:02 And she was so confident talking to Daniil about how she was the only one who knew the truth, she was the only one who knew the rigth way which just shows that having conviction is not the same as being right. She feels incredibly human and a slap in the face due to that, "am i really right or blind by lack of information and bias?"
I appreciate the honesty expressed in part 7. It is not easy to be so emotionally open and honest in a video, especially one arguing for which ending is the best. While I personally prefer the Haruspex ending, after agonizing for days on trying to understand why, I too realized that it wasn't because it was 'objectively' better. In fact, the secret endings seem almost intent on making you stop judging the endings based on their objective outcomes, after all it's a play, dummy. What made the Haruspex one the best for me was because I too wanted to get a Haruspex doll and say ''It's okay. It doesn't matter that you are a puppet, you will do what you believe is right and that is all that matters. Regardless of what the nature of your world is. Regardless of whether fate exists or not. Regardless of who are the powers that be.'' Though in his case, he would not need me to say anything at all, because he is 100% aware of it. In his own words: ''Every choice is right, so long as it's willed. That's the truth.'' As an agnostic, that resonated a lot with me. He is aware of his own ignorance, and yet chooses to live and do his best regardless.
Honestly, this is one of the best analysis series I've watched, given how much detail is crammed into every video. You have a great style of presentation, and I've learned more about the game by watching this series than I have by replaying the first game like three to four times. As for my own take: -I think that Pathologic is one of the works that does not have any set interpretations. Given how multifaceted and deep every plotline and element it is, it's both impossible and possible for any interpretation to be true, which is one of the great things about this... franchise? I suppose I've made my point, but I'm only saying this as a preamble because I agree on a lot of things, but a few points are kind of iffy for me. -I've always just... ignored the children. I'm already not the biggest fan of meta narrative that invalidates the experience/world/whatever but I almost loathe this as a concept. Oddly enough, I am absolutely in love with Mark Immortell and the Theater, as well as the appearance of the developers, since those things gel well with this bizarre world, while the entire sandbox plotline just feels... off. Jarring. Like a jagged edge on an otherwise very smooth object. It's really hard to explain but it just feels unnatural after everything you've experienced, while the prophetic Theater and various conversations you can have with the developers still feel somewhat "in universe" (which is why I actually like them). -It's really nice to see that someone else is talking about the themes of colonialism and the exploitation of the kin! Even the artbook (for Pathologic 2) mentions that they're very similar to Native Americans. I'm still very early into the second game (day four or five, I think) but it's nice to see that this was expanded upon (and that Boos Vlad was made less of a monster). It definitely ties into my feelings on the ending I prefer, which is... -The Bachelor (and his ending) live in my head absolutely rent free. This five foot something prickly prick is both the worst and best character in the game. I've never used the term "stan" before I played the Bachelor route. Well, enough of that, my point was that his ending feels like the only "right" one as it treats the disease instead of the symptom (using a medical analogy on purpose). While his view on the town is rather hostile (even you said that he essentially views it as "cramped on a small hill where it shouldn't be") it's also the one that's most understandable from a "logical" point of view. By destroying the town and the tainted soil beneath, the eradication of the plague is more or less guaranteed. While Clara's ending involves a literal blood cult and Burakh's ending can be interpreted as temporary quackery, the Bachelor's ending guarantees a safe future. This is not without it's flaws, though. -The destruction of the town would mean the destruction of the Kin and the loss of the Abattoir (further playing into the themes of colonialism) which essentially defeats the purpose of a utopia. A utopia is meant to be a safe refuge for all people, not a place where a chosen few can live out their dreams at the expense of an entire people and a rich history of traditions and culture. This is essentially done without the knowledge or the consent of the Kin, given that the Bachelor makes his choice late in the evening without consulting anyone. However, this works into his character because... -The Bachelor is an idealist. Despite being figuratively and literally kicked in the ribs by everyone and everything around him, from the people back in the Capitol (yes, I'm still ignoring the children), to the locals, to the very Kin who more or less oppose him at every turn, to the ruling families, he is still attempting to achieve his goals. It's almost noble, in a way, since despite all of the hardship he faces he never abandons his goals. He's consumed by myopic dreams of curing death and building a utopia with little regard for the town or the kin, which is understandable given how much opposition he faced while just... trying to do his job. If he wasn't so committed to his own set of rules or guidelines, he'd be a relatively irredeemable character, but despite his flaws it's clear that he's actively trying to do good, despite the implications of his actions. This all ties into my feelings on the ending... -There really is no good ending for Pathologic. Burakh's ending sacrifices a scientific miracle and the guarantee of permanent safety as well as a possible utopia in exchange for saving the town and it's culture, the Kin, and all of the things that matter in the present and the past. While it's not my favorite, it's incredibly heartwarming to see Burakh become the leader of the Kin and ultimately save them from malevolent or uncaring external influences. In a way, he uses the past to interact with the future (I hope this line makes sense soon). Clara's ending achieves nothing, at least in my opinion. It represents stagnation at any cost; the Kin are still around, but they are not safe. The plague is cured, but it can come back at any moment, much stronger and perhaps even resistant to the Panacea. The Polyhedron is still present, but no utopia exists. It's sacrifice to maintain a status quo which is ultimately a disservice to everyone. She tries to combine the past and the future only to result in them cancelling out and creating absolutely nothing. The Bachelor's ending is the one that conflicts me the most, and I'm really not sure how to feel about it despite being my favorite ending. The plague is destroyed, Daniil achieved his victory, and the town is reborn in a much better state than it was before, but the Kin, the culture, the history, it was all sacrificed for this vision of a better future without them being so much as asked about it. It *DOES* lead to a utopia, but a utopia where not everyone is included; a utopia built upon the back of rather malevolent actions. Is it still truly a utopia? This type of dilemma is quintessential to the entire concept of a utopia, with the primary question being "what does it take for a utopia to be built"? Essentially, this ending is characterized by "the ends justify the means" and it poses the question of whether you are willing to do the "right" thing (remove the plague, rebuild the town, save a scientific miracle, achieve your own goals) by doing all the "wrong" things (sacrificing the Kin, their culture, their history, the Abattoir, the town itself) in the process. It honestly makes me feel really bad, but also incredibly hopeful for the future of the town and its surviving inhabitants. It's also an incredibly fitting end for Daniil, which is what makes me appreciate it even more. There's really no way to justify it, as the Kin don't deserve to be... erased in such a brutal fashion (via bombardment, no less) but the achievements are undeniable. Not really sure how to feel about this, except really bad. -The Kains use the future to preserve the past - Simon in particular. Simon complicates this matter further as he is, well, a brilliant man who's continued existence would insure progress, advancement, perhaps even prosperity. But the question is, if placed on a scale, would Simon's life truly outweigh the lives, experiences, culture, history, et cetera of the Kin and the Town? Would you truly be able to justify that? No. If viewed from the lens of the player, this is (largely) unacceptable without a first place medal in mental gymnastics, however... -If you are playing as the character, in this case Daniil, instead of treating the character like a puppet you control, this IS a legitimate choice. Given Daniil's unique goals, aspirations, experiences, and worldview, the choice becomes much more reasonable. The Kin are (presumably) lost, but what is achieved is likely more than enough for Daniil to accept the side effects of his actions. Again, he comes off a strict idealist, which prevents him from being a monster. He isn't doing this out of some disregard or hatred for the Kin (I'd hope), he's doing it because it'd be the most logical thing for him to do. It's the choice he'd make, regardless of the circumstances, which is why I love this ending despite the implications. -If I was speaking strictly from the point of view of some third party, metaphysical entity, it'd be hard to justify any of these endings. Daniil's is problematic for various reasons, Clara's is a disaster, and the Haruspex's ending upsets me due to the loss of the Polyhedron, a scientific miracle that could be impossible to replicate. However, only Burakh's ending would be the reasonable choice (if viewed through the lens of the characters just being your avatars, instead of being characters you control), as there's no real way to justify just razing the town and the Kin or starting a blood cult without serious mental gymnastics or denial. -Sorry if this is rambling and incoherent, I barely get six hours of sleep a night! Apologies if it's too long, I just *love* this series and your unique perspectives on this gem of a game. If you somehow manage to stomach this quasi-essay, cheers.
that aside i loved your videos and how in depth and nuanced they were, probably the best i've seen about pathologic, thank you so much for making them!
Anyway, what was Yulia's sin? I get it that she is a fatalist and just plays along with the Clara's choice, but Rubin calles her en evildoer. Am I blind or was it not stated?
I can’t remember which character says this, but one of the characters tells Clara that Yulia was the one who told Saburov to implement the strict policing policy that, e.g., wound up with a bunch of people being put in jail and dying of the plague on day six. Apparently she predicted that it would decrease the violence overall or something. I assume that’s what her sin is supposed to be? But you’re right, it’s really unclear. iirc Clara’s letter about her ending calls Yulia as “Yulia the Unbeliever,” which does kind of insinuate that her sin is her fatalist tendencies. Who knows, honestly. Either way, Yulia really doesn’t deserve to be a blood sacrifice.
My personal thanks for you for making an analysis via female optics since I rarely found it by myself though feeling it. I think the game in whole represents the horrible truth about reality. Even although colonialism is bad there are “kinda” reason for something of it - education and giving more rights to the weak members who in most cases suffer it traditional way of living. Many agree that Haryspex ending is the best, but I personally as I girl could feel what is there about kin that I don’t like. And it’s like the reality itself: don’t touch traditional way of life because it’s more natural and “healthy” but you’ll have to see this lack of science and humanism in their way of living. However utopia dreams rarely can come out without blood or sacrifices or taking the power by wrong people and that’s also the truth So there is really no happy ending it’s a choice of sacrifice as it is in our life and that’s why I love this game And special thanks for the map about leaders souls being placed in Focuses, I enjoyed it
This video essay, by the way, has been referenced in my essay analysis of the film There Will Be Blood. That's how much I love this video essay- that is being used in an academic essay. God. I love this video.
I have really complicated thoughts about how the Kin and the herb brides are treated in P2. I think the game does really well in some areas and really poorly in others, but I’m not sure if I’ll make the video-partially because I’m not sure that me, a white person, is the greatest candidate to talk about all that and partially because I’m not sure if I want to deal with the bad faith comments that I’ll inevitably get after it.
I personally like to think that "the best ending" depends on whose path you're on. For Daniil I always choose to save the town and for Artemy I always choose to save the tower. It just feels right to do so, to deny the predetermined path for the protagonist, to let them grow beyond what they suppose to be.
That’s one of the things I find so interesting about the game. The writing of the characters’ perspectives are such that each of their endings fits them perfectly.
I think the main point with pathologic, admittedly coming from my limited understanding of the game, is that even if you can look back on endings with hindsight after the fact, when you have to live in the shoes of these people and experience the hardship they face, make the decisions they do, and quite literally walk SEVERAL miles in their shoes you are very likely going to feel it is the right ending in that moment. (Or mostly, Clara is a little wonky but she's doing her best. Also sorry for all the commas, it's the best way I could say what I meant
Also god damn, Pathologic introspecrives are really good at getting deep into emotional stuff, and if it helps you feel any better, it at least struck a tune with me and I'm hardly even religious.
Really one of the things I find most interesting about Pathologic is that the game puts you so deeply into the heads of the characters that you want to make their choice even if you don't agree with it because that's the choice that makes sense on their route.
My take as someone who has only consumed Pathologic via RUclips video essays but does have decades of experience in childcare: The sacrifice works. Like, the quasi-literal giant delicious egg sacrifice by the children. They're children. Yet, the world of their imaginations is filled with complex relationships and themes and words frankly well beyond their child development stage. The children are just shaking the dolls around and going "nuh-uh, my science is right!" and "then he shoots him right in the head bang!" and "jump in the hole! Jump in the hooooole!", but the power of their *belief* in their own imagined world makes it real, imbues these cotton dolls with real relationships and the speech of adults, if very strange adults. This same belief will literally protect the town from whatever rot is in the sand, for as long as the kids leave offerings and believe. Which, yes, won't be forever. The town will eventually be taken by the sand rot, but that is inevitable. All things end, be it a jug of water, a human life, the Earth, or childhood. If you count what does look a lot like large loaves of bread as parts of the sand castle, which is what it looks more like in the overhead shot of the castle in the changeling ending, there are seven food items being offered by the children. This is my guess as to how the sacrifice works, instead of them literally destroying seven of their probably limited supply of dolls. The Changeling ending is absolutely problematic, in world, but that world is literally the least real part of Pathologic. But I think it's important to consider the feeling explicitly being expressed by the ending, and the metaphorical message of it. Admittedly, that is a big pill to swallow and a very inelegant transition of narrative priorities, and it involves a fair amount of being told how to feel instead of being lead there for longer than a conversation with characters that you have spent a few minutes with in a sixtyish hour game. A less rushed third ending would have either made this transition smoother or gone in an entirely different direction. Part of why I like this ending is that it feels like a last-minute yet heartfelt decision, when something just *feels* like the right way to go and you/your team just *go for it*. Anyway, I really enjoy and interpret the Changeling ending as endorsing a resurrection of the younger ways - both of a younger human society and the ways of human young - not a modernity-shunning return to the old ways as seen in the Haruspex ending, but a synthesis of scientific idealism and reverent mysticism. The fact that such an interpretation is in line with my own spiritual beliefs is ENTIRELY BESIDES THE POINT
What i'm curious of is since the dolls literally come to life when they meet the Powers That Be, does that make the dolls some sort of focus? Or is it more that they're tulpas or something?
I love how you went into depths about the details about the routes, though I do feel (from my POV) you might have read a bit too much into the endings. I agree that it's a logical speculation that Capella's plan to reform and rebuild the town may not turn out promisingly, but I only take the ending as what it is, as long as the game does not imply otherwise. The same goes with your assumption that in Bachelor's ending there are enough panacea for patients. As for Khan and Notkin, I feel they have a bit of weird friendship between them, and there is a chance they may really settle down for a peaceful cooperation. The Kin's inherited violence and misogyny is, undoubtedly, a serious issue, but honestly I think Daniil is an active misogynist in his own way. And the Kains rebuilding a utopia... it feels to me as utopian as Capella's scheme, so I really didn't feel the advantage/disadvantage b/w these two on the scale of feasibility. As for the parallel between the Kin and Native Americans: I think American whites should stop centering the world around them, especially when it only serves to make them feel good and woke. The stuff about selling daughters and sacrificing bulls, etc. are just aspects of feudalism, and it's not something weird, exotic and can be eliminated simply by destroying a town and its people. Would the Buryats suddenly become assimilated into "west""modern" culture when they move to western europe? Well... if only, I would think it's more likely in 2nd and 3rd endings, but not like some foreign colonizers indoctrinating the local folks, because "you bad me good". I may not be a huge fan of moral relativism, but criticizing the ritual practices and cultural traditions of nomadic people with modern moral standards sounds pretty condescending and colonialist to me. (It's not a personal attack; I just don't feel judging the fate of a community is a thing for common people.)
I like to think critically about the ways in which a story will paint a certain event that may or may not match what will likely happen with the event or how that event will be perceived by other characters. Your mileage will obviously vary with that, and it is definitely possibly that I have overanalyzed the endings here. But I think it's really interesting how even in stories that seem to be presented in an objective manner, there is always an element of subjectivity due to the way that the story is framed. I am sorry if my analysis of the Kin was patronizing or condescending. It was not my intention, and as I mention in the video, I fully acknowledge that colonialism as it exists in Pathologic is a very complicated topic. However, I will just respectfully note that I never mentioned Native Americans in the video. I know that there is another comment thread where I discussed Native Americans, but I understand that the Kin are inspired by Mongol subgroups who live in Russia, particularly the Buryats.
@@PlayheadNorth Hi: Please don't worry!! I did not mean hostility to you, and I think your analysis of the plot is certainly well-considered in any case. I only had some disagreement, but I read through my comments and realized I sounded unnecessarily angry, which is a mistake. As for the native American parallel -- same as in another comment, I saw it elsewhere. It is a bit common in the English fandom. This was not targeted at your video, and I should have made it clearer, so sorry for the confusion!
No worries! And please, it's totally fine to disagree! Life would be so boring if everyone agreed with me. I actually find everyone's different interpretations of Pathologic to be really interesting.
Finally had the time to get through all three episodes and this is some of the best Pathologic analysis I've ever seen (every time I discover something new from this fandom it's pure gold). It's good to see more in-depth discussions of the story and endings, and you've brought up some really interesting points that are going to be on my mind during my next playthrough (particularly that note about how much misogyny is built into the culture of the town, really puts the Haruspex ending into a new perspective). Fantastic work, I look forward to seeing part 4 when it's done and I will definitely be checking out the rest of your channel. On a final note, why did you have to point out that none of the houses have bathrooms? That revelation is going to haunt me!
Bathtub with bottles and cans in it? Sounds like a party. Literally. Imagine a bathtub full of water and ice cubes keeping all the bottles and cans cold.
It's probably the most minor question presented in the essay, but as for where the bathrooms are, the townsfolk likely go outside for it. An outhouse, for example.
I think your criticism of the Haruspex ending ignores too much the influence and mire that is colonialism. I also think in by doing so do you misinterpret Artemy's misogyny. Capella is indeed supposed to represent a new beginning, however, it is a new beginning that is free from the influence of the colonizers. Artemy's talk about the will of the Earth is clearly showing how this society, before intrusion, had placed great reverence on its holy women. This import continues in fragmentary form, as is usually the case for the colonized, in the ruling family's matriarch's position of power and psychicness. Taya's position also reinforces this "we were originally a matriarchy" idea. Viewing things through an anticolonialist lense is shown to be the intent of the developers when the changes in 2 are taken into account. Thus, this ending isn't a return to the status quo (how it is viewed through the lens of a colonizer) but it is a renewal of the prelapsarian state of the town/world (how it is viewed through the lens of anticolonialism).
Of course this video is your personal opinion, so you have the right to put whatever you want. I guess I just wanna point out that your discussion of Artemy's ending emphasized a lot on the flaws of the townfolk themselves and therefore puts the ending in a much more negative light. It hurts me a little, because I would choose Artemy's ending over and over again without question. Although I recognize its not so much as the way the argument is structured in a objectively right/wrong way, but how deeply the story of Pathologic resonates with a player (like myself) so we become so very personally invested in the choices that we make Anyway with that point aside, I would choose Artemy's ending as my best ending. I recognize the flaws of the Kin. The Townsfolk are prejudiced against them (and that's wrong), but it is also true that their traditions are harmful and have practices that step on the rights of other Kin. But my experience in real life with indigenous people, organizing with them and protesting with them, taught me that you dont give up on anybody that is exploited and oppressed no matter what. Even if they have traditions you dont agree with, because they are more likely to phase out the harmful traditions if they are engaged by other people rather than being left alone Same goes with the rest Town. Yeah, the Town is fucked up. Lots of bandits and the children are participating in lumpenic activities. But so is a lot of places. Especially where I'm from. When I occupied Artemy and played as him, I took from my own experiences in deciding that the chance that they not change at all and stay the same unlikely (because everything changes especially when people try to make it happen), and I would not take away the chance to change away no matter how unlikely Thanks for the video. Loved the ride it took me on
11:34 Killing 92 people: “eh. Its just their culture. Maybe a little bad but idk”. Arranged marriage: “THIS IS ABSOLUTELY HORRIFIC AND THE TOWN SHOULD BE SHELLED INTO OBLIVION”. Murdering 92 people seems like it should also be a huge “yikes”. I think video games have literally desensitized us to just how awful KILLING someone is. If I had to pick between arranged marriage and dying, im definitely going with the arranged marriage. You dont need to waffle and hedge around saying “hey, killing people is bad, regardless of the tradition and culture”.
12:30 WOOOOOOW, SO IT WAS HIM!!!!!! I wonder if Daniil knows?! It would be weird if either the father or Dan didnt went to see each other for justice or something
Given the news that has come out about Nikolay Dybowski, I am adding this pinned comment to all of my Pathologic videos. Basically, there is credible evidence against him. If you want to look at the evidence against him, follow this link, but please note a content warning for CSA: docs.google.com/document/d/1KeKKptAkn1D662UZYdWWg-mr16YbYK-S/edit. In light of this, I want to encourage people to take a look at these allegations for themselves and let their friends who might be interested in Pathologic know about them as well. The rumor is that these allegations have been an open secret around Dybowski for some time, and one of the worst things people in the Pathologic community can do is let them fade into secrecy once more. I am not going to judge you if you want to continue engaging with Pathologic; I am simply asking that you do so with knowledge of this evidence against its creator. If you would like to do something to help, the following tumblr has some great links for organizations you can donate to: auroraoptica.tumblr.com/post/647700868588863488/hey-everyone-given-the-recent-news-from-twitter. Thanks everyone, and take care of yourselves.
Thanks for spreading the news. Sadly I can not see the post since I don't own a Twitter account. Anyway: no matter the crimes of a person, it does not render their art „evil“. Even more so if a whole team worked on it (MLP for example had a similar case). However, one does not need to support the creators directly. I‘m not necessarily encouraging piracy but one could always purchase a previously owned copy on CD for example. This way they are not getting any income from you enjoying their game. Well, at least when comes to the original Pathologic releases. I‘m not sure if PHD and P2 can be played DRM free.
Yeah, the whole thing is a mess. I posted this right after the accusations came out. There’s a more current list of what’s happened here: www.ditisemile.com/04/17/dybowski-allegations/
Wow thats soms really dissapointing news. Im torn as i both despise child predators but dont want anything to happen that could affect the development of pathologic 2's new routes.such bad news😰😰😰
54:36 Imagine how many dolls of bandits, guards and arsos are destroyed if this is true, maybe for the important dolls, like the bounds, who have their on profile picture, but for the others, we killed so many people in our way, that would be impossible to they have many dolls for the generic ones, I think they just say, "he died" let it in the ground then "ok I will need another bandit, I think I gonna use this one again". I see Clara ending as the best one, not for the town, but for the children, they see that die, is natural, and with the pass of time, people we love will die, and we gonna take their place in the future they fought for us, the children finally after stop put their sadness, frustation and rage by the unfair death of their grandfather, they see the town is still fighting, trying to survive and live, never give up, Clara born from the earth, from nothing, the kids don't see to undestand, like see never was planning to be played, one of they see her as a pest, because she is stopping one of the kids for put his frustation in the dolls, curing the pest, when the other see her as a Miracle-worker, like see is showing that even in the worst, there still hope, the kids after chat with Clara, they open their eyes, they stop crying, and give food as a thanks, they left the town alone, they left the polyhedron, they give peace for the dolls, unlike the Bachelor ending, he make the kids give up from the town, destroying one of the only things with bringed they comfort in this hard times, and left the polyhedron alone, with could be a representation of the death of their grandfather, thinkg with me, a old man just die a day before our heroes get in town, Simon could very well be their grandfather, it's confusing, hard to understand why he is not there anymore, after all they are just kids, the Bachelor is the scary clown, because if the Bachelor win, is the kids losting the hope and give up everything, they erase the town, the good memory, only remembering that he is dead now, and there is nothing they can do, the plague will not get back, they not deny he is dead, but also don't learn how to live with it, the Haruspex ending is the kids getting locked in the past, like they are trying in a way to say he is not dead, saving the town and throwing the polyhedron away, getting that confusing thing, the death of a loving one, out of the town, saving only the good memory, and never accepting he is gone now, with can work for a time, but the plague may get back again, maybe from other loving one death. That why I say Clara is the best ending, both kids learn to live, they don't give their hope, the town, but also learn how to live with the confusing of death, of life, the polyhedron stop be that evil being of the plague, they learn how to live with it, the plague may come back, but the will be ready for it, they give food for the town, as a thanks, and can finally overcome their grandfather death, by the help of a doll they didn't undestand, by the help of Clara, by the help of a Miracle-worker
One note, the "Herb bride" of the stamatin pub is not a herb bride, it uses the same model but is a regular non-kin caucasian, "adopted" ( kidnapped ) by HunchBack. I think its somewhat of a mirror image about the rights of vulnerable women, on one hand you have the Kin, representative of backwards traditions, that treat herb brides as a commodity to be consumed and then you have the human trafickers who profit from women by turning them to a commodity to be consumed. I think it all revolves around the philosophy of the game, no matter what you do, or who you are, nothing changes unless the individuals develop a conscience and mend their ways, violence against women wont change regardles of culture as long as humans dont change their mindsets to a more egalitarian one ( most of the spread of the plague is related to the pollitical conspiracies and rigid traditions used for personal gain in detriment to everyone else ). Its one of those hard morality tales, as for me, i took a knife and killed the butchers, brute bullies demanding sacrifice from others by using violence because "Muh Tradition" is something i cant stand.
Yeah, Willow’s backstory is weird and not 100% sorted out in the game, but I assume she must still be a member of the Kin because I believe that Daniil makes the same comments about how the Kin seem to have an increased ability to fight the sand pest if you give him her heart. (Not completely sure about that last point since I don’t have access to my game scripts to double check atm). I, too, killed the butchers because I was not on board with the human sacrifice, so I totally get your points above. I think it’s interesting that the Kin seem to be pretty upset that Andrey pays the herb brides to dance in his pub. Yet it doesn’t seem like he’s coercing them to be there, and I’m sure working for him gives them a greater measure of autonomy. I saw a comment one time that you could write a whole essay about the woman who dances in Andrey’s pub (this was specifically about P2, but it could really apply to either game), and I can’t stop thinking about that comment because yes.
Wow! RUclips Aagorithm comes through for once. I'm so glad it suggester your videos. I own all the Pathologic games and have gotten about halfway through the sequel but thats it. Its not the difficulty I struggle with but the interminable slowness of them. I want to drive forward and experience more of the story but they all have a very deliberate pacing that I just cant get over. But I love the lore and world building and the sheer bleakness of Pathologic. I consume any media on it I can find. I've seen HBomberguys and Sul Matuls critiques and playthroughs of it more times than I can count. If you or anyone else here hasn't seen it, Ragnarox has a really good review of it as well. I just wanted to say that your videos rank up there with the best of them. You have a genuinely unique take that I hadn't heard before and its illuminating to see it from another perspective. I have subscribed and will look forward to more of your analyses of Pathologic or any other games you may be interested in. I hope this gets the views it deserves; very thoughtful, well researched, and masterfully produced. Bravo!
Hey, thanks for the last message in your video, been passing through some rough times in life rn. Never thought I would find such a positive inspiration in here, really encouraged me to keep going, again Thank you!
I’m so glad it helped! Life can be so hard, and I like acknowledging that as much as I can in my videos because no one should feel alone in their struggles.
44:27 Also what if she dies?? 52:12 This also explains why she's okay with her ending, also feels like she's prioritizing stuff over people, when she says that she knows the truth she's refering to the Powers That Be. I wonder uf That's a actually outside the down, i hope so.
I'm a couple years late, I know, but it's interesting that you feel the way that you do about the Kains. In my Bachelor playthrough, the impression I got from them was that of a family so distraught with the death of a loved one--and to a plague that would soon ravage the town once again--that they fell into delusion. I didn't think that Simon or Nina really lived through them, but rather that this was an extreme method of coping with their losses; pretending that their spirits lived on through them, and that Simon wasn't actually dead the whole time. It was too bizarre, and everything else up to that point was mostly grounded in reality, so I didn't buy the whole ghost thing, and I doubt the Bachelor really did, either. And on the topic of the Changeling's ending, I noticed then that the human sacrifices ran parallel with the two children giving offerings to the sandbox. Similarly to the Kains, I figured that the children were playing this game as a way of dealing with their grief. They're playing this during a funeral, after all, so offering (fucking *massive*) peanuts and other food to the sandbox was like making a sacrifice to the departed. It's why the whole thing is framed as good and touching, music and all. And besides that, this was the ending of the whole game since it's assumed you played through the Bachelor and Haruspex routes already, so I imagined it was like a sendoff.
Shame about the developer. I only just learned about this and had a daydream of creating something with the author maybe someday but now I'm not so sure. I was already thinking they might have a twisted mind anyways, but its a shame. This story is beautiful. I have no idea of the full scope of the game but it's so amazing to analyze everything. Your explanation for the fucking children actually made me realize how fucking crazy the story is with the whole fucking plastic bottle and rotting sandcastle...
I like the... trichotomy (hey, that IS a word. Cool.) of the three main characters. Daniil is Progress, Artemy is Tradition, and Clara is the Chaos woven between them. She can both heal and harm with only her hands, and gameplay-wise, you make this choice yourself by either harmfully waving your hands at attackers, or helpfully waving your hands at plague victims. Meanwhile, as Daniil, you're a healer who will (depending upon who you ask) inevitably do harm. In contrast, as Artemy, you are named The Ripper, a bloodthirsty monster inflicting brutal death upon the town and its inhabitants, despite at heart being a healer/shamanistic character who is genuinely trying to heal the town.
I'm so glad you decided to finish this series of videos, I love Pathologic and really enjoyed listening to listening to your thoughts about it, I hope you get more views
26:06 I thought Nina was the lady in red, as that portrait's in both Geogiy and Victors rooms. Also, she's described as the scarlet mistress by several of the townsfolk.
Nina is likely the woman pictured in the houses of the Kains, but she’s also definitely the woman with black hair in the theater. The woman with blonde hair in the theater is Victoria Olgimskaya.
@@PlayheadNorth Ah, I see. I thought that maybe you didn't show that portrait because it might've been a little too racy for youtube. It was a little awkward scanning the room and waiting for Victor to get up off his desk chair, only to see that provocative portrait and then turn to see him staring at you. The blood cult ending is not a very certain ending either as perhaps instead of sacrifice in full, blood donations could be obtained from a large populace without killing them; but then again perhaps she doesn't have the power to do that many conversions; and the most pressing concern I thought you would of had for Clara's blood cult is that Clara could die and well . . . what then? Nevertheless I enjoyed your takes on this game as well as your essay on FF7 and look forward to seeing what you take on in the future.
additionally i don't know what exactly yulia did wrong besides i guess being too smart for a woman or something? based on how superstitious and misogynistic the town itself is i wouldn't rule that out as a reason she's sinister but i still don't get why that makes her on the level of someone like anna angel or bad grief
Very excited for the 4th video! I'm also very happy I got you in my recommended out of nowhere, looking forward to your future videos and essays after this series Also, take your time with making these videos! No sense in burning yourself out, we really enjoy these videos :)
Thank you! I’m so glad you’re enjoying my videos! I have a tendency to obsess about something until I burn myself out on it (like uuuuuhhhh a certain video game lol), but I’m going to try to pace myself with my videos now that I’m actually seeing some engagement!
I think Clara's bound are people that want to be sacrificed. Either out of guilt or depression. They are given a way out or a purpose as a way to handle their nihilism. Also I don't understand why destroying the village makes any difference if the people survive. If anything that would just mean that they as refugees would spread the plague to other towns. Besides some of the soldiers might be sick too at this point.
Can't wait for your next video and to finally find out which ending is your favorite! By the way, have you thought about creating a video about the dynamics between the Mistresses and what is the mission of each Mistress, how do they differ? It seems to me that this is a very interesting topic, and few people (to be honest, I don’t remember anyone, but I will shield myself with such an answer) spoke about it in detail. I would be happy to know your thoughts about the Mistresses!
Oooh, that's a good idea! I'll keep a deep lore dive into the Mistresses in mind, though to be perfectly honest, I'm going to need a bit of a break from Pathologic once I'm finished with the next video.
Okay, about Yulia... She was a part of a group who came from the Capital to built the town, a mathematician, an analyst. Even before she gave questionable advices to people of power, she bears the weight of a town being as it is, like a labyrinth, like a Net. It makes so much sense for the player, tired of dead ends and random walls we can’t climb over, to try to have a little petty revenge on her. Lara tried to murder Block because her father was killed under his command, regardless of what she herself may claim. Anna Angel killed the family that took her in and took over their daughter’s appearance, erasing her existence, and she is suffering. Like this, we can justify pretty much anything. While the most brutal and unpleasant upon close inspection, Clara’s ending supposed to be an epiphany at the end. Painful epiphany, fragile, full of uncertainty. It makes a lot of sense actually. If both the newest achievements of medicine and traditional remedies turn out to be useless, people turn to miracles. Like this, children by the sandbox, who are trying to cope with their loss (I presumed that the sand town supposed to represent the body of their grandfather, and the Polyhedron, a glass keepsake, is his spirit - things they remember about him), are trying to imagine a scenario where their loved one could have been saved - for them Clara’s miracle can be the best. After all, the people in the town are their beloved dolls, and the whole scenario shows that they are willing to sacrifice things dear to them for something even more precious. Them offering the food to sandbox is a sign of reverence - the town now is more than a sand, it’s alive. And also dead probably, because it is still incredibly common for people in Russia to leave food on the graves for the loved ones who are gone (I myself did it since I was a child big enough to go to cemetery with adults). Overall, great video, will be waiting for the next part. It’s really refreshing to hear female voice in analysis videos.
I appreciate all of your thoughts on Clara's ending. The food thing makes so much more sense -- thanks for the insight! And dang, I knew that Lara's issue with Block was her father dying under his command in Pathologic 2, but I guess it's in the first Pathologic as well, just very buried.
I wished I could play the real deal on PS4. The actual first game. Because simply trying to watch it on RUclips...it takes all of the fun out. Then again, trying to see it on RUclips can allow me to have a more cinematic perspective of the three characters and their stories.
This is a really really good analysis, deconstruction and reconstruction as a series. So good that after probably ten hours of reviews, recommendations and a third r word this is probably what will prompt me to go out and get it. As someone who stopped taking English classes at 16 and enjoys MCU movies, I don't think I'm equipped to really give any deeper reflection, but I will say that The Last Of Us 2 is a very polished gameplay experience with a relatively simple narrative that investigates games not being Fun with a capital F, and I can only imagine that the complexity and faith in the player Pathologic has is a very interesting use of some of the same broad strokes.
Hey, I enjoy MCU movies as well, so there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! I haven't played The Last of Us games, but from what I know of The Last of Us 2, I am really curious to see what I would think about it. My main qualm is that I'm not really one for violent games, and I know the series is reasonably violent.
Thank you! I actually have an initial version of the next part up, but it's currently unlisted. You can see it by going to the pinned tweet on my Twitter account.
Woah these videos are amazing! Binging through them after playing P2 and cannot get enough! Amazing. You should also cover P2 as well. I know maybe it's a lot of effort for nothing, and theres a lot of other youtubers that have covered that already, but you personal angle, you point of view is still unique and very different from anyone else. That said, thank you some much for all of these! And great job. Very well done all around. You have a new sub!! And i always considered contributing to smaller channels, so if you ever make a Patreon and plan to do this fairly consistently (i know it's a big commitment, but what ifs) I'll seriously consider contributing and I'm sure some of these people would as well. Edit: and yeah, you should definitely lock your fanfiction behind patreon (or, well, some of it). Sounds like an asshole, but it's an incentive. A compromise: to keep these beautiful, interesting video coming. I fear too much you dropping all of this because it takes waaay too much effort .. sad noises . Please 🙏 think about it
Thank you! I'd like to do a video on Pathologic 2, but I want to work on some other things first. I'm a little burned out on Pathologic video essays at the moment. I think it's a little premature to do a Patreon at this point, but I'll keep your suggestions in mind!
I am here for the existentialism I'm just a sophomore starting my 2nd playthrough of P2 but i think it delves more into the theater/4th wall breaking aspects (in some ways the whole game is presented as like a travelling theater production, would explain certain weird things), the September twyrine is getting to my lungs and im coming up with all sorts of wacky theories after seeing all this footage if I'm still looking for more masochism maybe I'll get P1
Oh yeah, the theater is played up much more in P2. P2 is just overall a much more theatrical game, whereas P1 feels more like a book on philosophy. I don’t know if playing P1 is more masochistic than P2. It kind of depends on what you like in a game. P2 is definitely harder than P1, and I found it much more punishing. Overall I enjoyed P1 quite a bit more, but I also didn’t mind all of the walking around and esoteric conversations in P1. Some people find that aspect of P1 irritating or boring, though, so your mileage really varies.
Just started this video but ive thought about this a lot. My conclusion from playing is the characters ending that u played as is the best ending. choosing artery's ending when playing as daniil just felt so wrong as it didnt fit daniils goals.
Wouldn't it be cool if they made a Multiplayer Version of Pathologic 1?? Like... there's three Players, Danill, Artemy and Clara... and the Object of the game is to reach your Character's ending before the others do... would all be in the same Game World, so maybe could even Sabotage the others?? Or... maybe even work together to create an even better ending?? Would be cool, I think, lol.
![[FULL] RETROSPECTIVE : Final Fantasy Tactics](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RUBmYqs1jZ0/mqdefault.jpg)
Daniil's a lot more interesting with the fact that he's the plaything of children. Daniil is a doctor, one that seeks to cure death, and at every turn he faces hate, pain and failure. Everything he seeks and fighs for is taken and no on listens. Meanwhile the ones who create this tale for him are children at a funeral. It's theur way of coping with the lose, punishing Daniil as a catch all for the doctors and medicine that failed the deceased.
Oh interesting, that's a good point. Poor Daniil.
The narrative of Artemy saving the town over the Polyhedron, partly at the behest of the Powers That Be is so very clever. Artemy is as close to a protagonist that the kids have; given his character arc of criminal to Foreman, and the fact that all of his bound are children, the characters the Powers That Be would empathize with. Not to mention that as a menhku, he ‘knows the lines’, which can be taken in a theatrical sense to mean that he knows he script. Without the influence of the player, I think the children would act out the Haruspex ending over any other. The kids actively dislike Daniil, burning his life’s work off screen out of spite, and Clara has more power than the kids would ever really want to deal with.
Anyways, that’s why I think we just got the Haruspex route first in Pathologic 2 thank youuuu
Oh, totally! I think Daniil was the right choice for the intro route in the first Pathologic, but Artemy has a much more straightforward story. I'm really interested to see what they do with the Bachelor route in Pathologic 2 since having the Haruspex route first allows them to do weirder and more interesting things with Daniil's story arc now that players will already be introduced to the world and basic mechanics.
oh my god the "knowing the lines" thing never occured to me 😂🤦♀️
The only reason that Clara had to sacrifice her bound is because she required enough blood to cure everyone after the plague ran rampant for 12 days. Her next set of bound should only need to make occasional blood donations until Artemy has a sizable stockpile of Panacea. At which point she is free to join up with General Block and She will insist on making the Albino her advisor and he will wear a cute little tuxedo with a 3-foot tie.
I 100% support Tuxedo Albino.
Thanks for covering the Herb Brides in depth. I noticed none of the other reviewers/essayers ever really delved into their role in the story and the world building, much less how much it sucks to be them in P1.
Yeah, I have complicated feelings on the Herb Brides in Pathologic 2, but in the original, their treatment is genuinely one of the biggest reasons why I think the "save the town" ending has problems.
7:42 im so sorry to inform you that brutal kids gangs are indeed normal in small towns in eastern Europe
Dang my condolences
After watching this I feel like the best ending is... the "bad ending", where the town and Polyhedron both get destroyed. At least from the point of view of the Powers that be. Because maybe it's better for them, to accept that things change and everything has it's end. They build this town to cope with the loss. But now they cling to their little play, unable to let go, handing their story and scenario over to their dolls, giving them the right to decide, just desperately trying anything to keep the pretense going. But it's been 12 days... and maybe it's time to move on, leave the sandbox, and do other things, maybe even try creating some new worlds. Maybe even... a bit gentler ones.
Beautiful series of videos. Can't wait for more. Just kidding, I can wait, don't rush anything, go at Your own pace (which is honestly very good anyway, for such a well written, long-form video essays) no matter how long it would take X3
Oooh I like your thoughts on the “bad ending.” That’s really interesting. And thank you for your kind words! I’m really enjoying making these videos and talking with people about Pathologic here, but it’s been so much easier to do with all of the encouragement I’ve been getting.
I think the implication with the "bad ending" was that they never finish their story... The game keeps going and the children may or may not be shown to be dead by the end?
As far as the meta-narrative goes: yes, probably the best decision (assuming Night Killer's interpretation isn't correct).
Paradoxically though, it is the worst fate for the town and its people.
1 element to this choice that not a lot of people talk about is how the other player characters behave in each route being their worst selves. As in can you trust Artemy or Clara to act wisely when your the bachelor, can you trust the bachelor and the harospex to be okay in Clara's route. They activly show that they did not expience their true story when they arent the player character, and in a sense, maybe their endings are inherently worse when playing a different route
This is a really good point, thank you for bringing it up!
Someone's already said this but if you keep the town's existence as a sandcastle in mind the real solution is the "bad ending," tearing it all down and starting over.
If you remove the tower (that I cant spell) then the rot remains. To the people of the town this means the sickness will only come back, and get worse
If you destroy the town, remove the rotten sand, and make a new town then the original problem remains. Water will once again leak into the sand, rotting it. The people will suffer another outbreak , and their "Utopia" will fall as well.
The solution here is to do both. Remove the rot and sorce of the water that causes it. The townspeople will fall, but they are dolls. They are real to themselves, to each other, but the game implies that the children have played these sorts of games before. The dolls will be moved to a new sandcastle, given new lives, with no memory of the tragedy they played last round.
That's assuming Clara can't just magic away the rot I guess. Who knows, Clara's weird
Thanks for you comment about the ending! And haha "who knows, Clara's weird" could honestly be the tagline for her route.
I might be mixing up P2 and Classic but I thought the Haruspex ending says that removing the Polyhedron will wash out all the blood and basically end the Kin? I think they were heavily implying the plague stuff will be gone forever along with the magical stuff, both the natural and the Kain architecture.
@TxWIll The implication of the endings in Classic and P2 are very different. That’s definitely the case for P2, but in P1 the Artemy ending is to get rid of the polyhedron. The polyhedron is tied less to the existence of miracles in P1 and more to the hubris of man in subverting the laws of nature, which the plague does not like.
Second watch-through here.
After rewatching both Hbomberguy and Sulmatul's videos and comparing it your analysis, I have concluded that you are the most knowledgeable person when it comes to Pathologic. You go into so much more detail, present unique viewpoints to the game I've never considered before, perfectly deconstruct the themes, while also having a very in-depth understanding of all the characters. The last aspect is amplified in your April-fools video. While you might have found the idea of a potluck with Pathologic characters "silly" (which is kinda correct because I laughed my a** off), there is no better analogy to surface the core personalities of all the characters, at least better than what I would've come up with. It's like you personally know all the people in the town, like you transferred your consciousness unto the main characters.
All this is a testament on how much Pathologic meant to you, and I seriously doubt anyone else can talk about this game with more passion or dedication. This was an Incredible series, and I hope you do great at all your other endeavors - whenever you may choose to pursue them.
This is such an incredibly sweet comment, thank you so much! You absolutely made my week.
thank you thank you thank you for touching on the colonialism aspect of the story. i've seen so many people avoid it when discussing and analyzing the game -- which just boggles my mind. it is the heart of the story, in my opinion. also just a big thank you in general for this brilliant series! your videos have probably been my favorite of all the pathologic analysis videos i've seen. you approach the story in such a human and understanding way. you aren't overdramatic about it, which i appreciate because a lot of other creators kind of adopt this sort of "tHiS gAmE iS sO hArD i CaNt iMaGiNe LiViNg LiKe ThiS" affect when it's the reality (or at least partially the reality) of a lot of impoverished, disabled, and/or colonized people. it's really not that far removed from what i and my family have experienced (i'm disabled and native).
I am so happy this resonated with you. Like I said in the video, I would honestly love to do a video about colonialism and both Pathologic 1 and Pathologic 2, but it's such a sensitive and complicated topic that I don't want to approach it before I'm ready to do it justice. But yes, I completely agree that it's something that isn't discussed enough (particularly with respect to Pathologic 2, in my opinion, where it plays a much larger role).
I was actually considering doing a video on this game looking specifically at the colonialism faced by the kin, their caste system as presented in game, and a bit about actual steppe cultures. As well as the parallels to the kin with contemporary as well as ancient steppe peoples, such as the proto indo-Europeans. Seems to me that they’re based on an amalgamation of current and historical steppe cultures. It’s all very interesting stuff and it’s just begging to be looked at with both a post-colonial lens and with attention paid to the history of Russia/eastern Europe’s indigenous nomad populations.
@@Glassandcandy YES THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR. I would love to learn more about that!
@@Glassandcandy Oh god, yes. Yes indeed. Being brazilian myself, with minor native american ascendency, of which I am deprived of even the most basic of data, other than those of the genetic, relative sort, I'm all for it. It is indeed an extremely underappreciated and underanalyzed aspect of the game and the historical grounding of its developers, from the late antiquity steppe migrations to modern federal integration, specially concerning the buryati. There is a great article called cattle in Buryat mythology and ritual by A. A. Badmaev that I highly recommend as a focal point. Anyways, here's to strongly hoping you get around to it.
Haven't watched the first two but wound up directed to this one. I definitely appreciate the analysis of the endings here and especially appreciate the inclusion of the secret ending as framing as to why one ending might be better than the other. I'll definitely tune into the next video you make, too - but if I can be forward about it, I hope your next video also happens to include the secret-secret ending with the Executor and the Tragedian standing in for the developers, because I can't help but feel that the conversation they have with you is relevant in respect to the very nature of the game. As for me with regards to endings, I don't think there is any one 'best' ending that can be truly defined, because ultimately the values we have as individuals and the personal experiences we have as the puppeteers of doll protagonists will intrinsically shape what we value and why we value it - in the exact same way that those same doll protagonists value different things themselves.
Saving the polyhedron could be viewed as abandoning those who do not fit into the planned utopia of those who would see it spared, for example. It is certainly a marvel, it is certainly progression of science in a near miraculous way and it has done some good in that it protected the children within it, those same children are planned to be ousted by the elite who constructed it because they do not "fit". The good the polyhedron COULD do, if spared, doesn't matter if the elite ruling class that wind up controlling decide not to use it FOR that good. And meanwhile, the minorities who definitely won't benefit from it at all will be left behind, destroyed in the initial shelling of the town, or left to starve and rot.
Saving the town, by that same notion, sacrifices that very potential good the polyhedron could potentially bring about. "Nothing ventured, nothing gained" - the loss of the polyhedron is all but a sure assurance that it will never bring about anything good, because it was never given the chance to. Stagnation and a stubborn refusal to accept change is little more than a guarantee of a slow death; maybe it doesn't get worse, but it certainly doesn't get better. The town is left in a perpetual limbo, and maybe the plague does come back and maybe the plague doesn't, but what we know for a fact is the town is still strange and people still die and stereotypes remain unbroken.
Ironically enough, I have the complete opposite view to you for Clara's ending. I would love to live in a world where progress can be made without sacrifice, but we simply do not; and Pathologic certainly does not. And even funnier, I agree that Clara's ending represents the strongest chance for the cycle to be repeated, but I'd like to offer this argument as to why that isn't necessarily as bad as you say: there is time from her ending until the next outbreak of plague for both the town and the polyhedron to progress. It isn't that Clara's ending guarantees the safety of anybody, because it doesn't, but it does give them all more time. More than twelve measly, sad days. And if the next plague outbreak occurs and there's no measurable change, who says you NEED to choose Clara's ending a second time? It's a strange assumption to make, that picking her ending once means you must do so again if the same situation occurs. In fact, most people in that position would choose the course of action they did not take the first time, assuming that the situation is identical and there has been literally no improvement. Clara's ending to me seems the most hopeful, because it allows both the polyhedron AND the town to survive with knowledge of the outbreak that happened, and for those otherwise warring factions to perhaps come together to try and ensure that should it happen in the future, there's a new ending you can choose. An ending where nobody needs to die, where progress doesn't need to be sacrificed, an ending where culture doesn't need to be destroyed. Not a guarantee, but then, nothing ever is.
And for the record, nobody has to be religious to agree with your finishing sentiment. Your life is intrinsically valuable because it is your life; it is your struggles and your hardships, your decisions for better or for worse, your responsibilities, your successes, your failures and to the rest of this big wide universe, these things are inconsequential at best and will not be remembered. But you have to live with them, for your entire existence, and so to you - the only person who matters - they are all uniquely valuable and will be until that fateful day where your existence ends.
I really like your perspective on Clara’s ending. It’s still probably my least favorite, but I think that’s a really interesting way to look at it.
Haha I actually meant that for people who aren’t religious, the idea of receiving life advice from a higher power probably sounds crazy, but you’re absolutely right about life having intrinsic meaning regardless of whether you think there is a god (or gods!) or not.
And to quote myself from the video, “Don’t worry, my friends. I did not forget about the secret ending.” ;) Based on what you’ve said here, I think you’ll like my next video.
my biggest issue here is...well- im not actually sure if your position is that Clara's ending is "good" or if its the "best of the three", Im not sure about the latter- but i really really don't think its good.
So, just as a little thing- if you don't think its "good" then please disregard this.
Clara's ending is really really complicated- mostly because i think its more ambigious (i think due to a lack of time to fully polish clara's storyline). One of the things that bothers me a lot about both the Harupex's and the Changeling's story is that I don't think it actually properly addresses the plague.
The plague was "caused" by the polyhedron distrubing pockets of congealed blood in the ground....blood which seeped into the ground and allowed the virus to spread due to the years of human and animal sacrifice. Even if we say the polyhedron is *a* cause, it is certainly not the only one.
Even if "oh man, we can make more cures in the future" i feel like its not great that we just aren't going to acknowledge that the ground the town lays in IS rotten, probably permanently. The thing is, I still don't like Daniil's ending- it still IS the complete destruction of an entire rich culture- but its the only one that probably permanently ends the plague.
To sorta, not ramble anymore- i don't like Clara's ending cuz it doesn't actually solve anything longterm- its more like a maybe bandaid.
So Clara literally just covers her ass and ensues she has a job and power for the rest of her life. Not a bad idea even if she dissociates, her life will be stable. If you could call it that.
After now having watched all three of your videos on Pathologic so far, as someone who hasn't played the game, but been exposed to it by video essays like the ones by hbomberguy or SulMatul, I just want to simply say, I found yours very well argued, compelling, very funny and entertaining throughout (though that might be my inclination towards both self-depricating humor as well as weird and out-of-the-box puns and jokes, who knows). It is very enjoyable to listen to you talk about a topic you care a lot about and watch as the editing of the video smoothly guides me along or throws me little extras again and again.
For all the hard work you put into this, the fun I had watching and the joke of "Daniil, no" aswell as Clara's "Magic Hands" song now being stuck in my head, I thank you!
I look forward to the other parts of this essay and/or whatever others might follow!
You’re the second person who’s commented about the magic hands song, and I feel so validated. My family mostly thinks it’s weird and annoying when I make up songs about things haha.
And thank you for all of your kind words! It is very nice to find a corner of the internet that appreciates my slightly odd humor.
Its crazy going from pathologic 2 where Artemy can be a very progressive force for the Kin and then seeing his thoughts on stuff in 1.
Yeah, Artemy in P1 is a completely different character. I know that’s something Codex Entry plans to talk about when she finally gets around to the Haruspex storyline.
@@PlayheadNorth I still need to play 1, I really enjoyed pathologic 2 and how artemy at least in that interpretation seems to be the only sane person in the entire city (willing to embrace weird magic shit if it turns out to work but having a healthy skepticism and being against the kins more messed up practices). I have some time free soon so I may start playing 1 just so I can get the whole picture through my own eyes. These games really need your own personal feelings through playing them to resonate I feel.
I would really love to see your thoughts on the upcoming installment in the series. Pathologic 3 is focusing on Daniil and knowing how special this character is to you I would really find that to be a super entertaining video. Considering the game isn't even out yet, I'm sure for a fuller length video you'll need more content to actually review it. Nonetheless I'm sure you're equally as excited as the rest of us!
I stumbled across the first video in this series a few hours ago, and I'm already blessed with part three!
Keep up the great work! I'm really loving your analysis, it touches on things I haven't heard of in other Pathologic videos
Same here, I binged the first two over the weekend and this has just made my Monday 😍
Aww, thank you! I'm glad that my working through all of my Pathologic thoughts has been entertaining to other people as well.
I've played the bachelor's route and only *now*, after watching this video, do I understand what a focus is. This is a really great video, I love how you focused on the themes of each ending and what they mean to the characters. I haven't played the changeling's route yet, but that sounds like a major yikes. You perfectly articulated how I felt after talking the powers that be as Daniil, just feeling so sad for a character that's so fun to make fun of. Also that cliffhanger lmfao. Can't wait for the next video!
Thank you! No lies, I added the bit about the foci, even though it probably wasn’t strictly necessary for the video, because I know it’s confusing even for people who have played the game. In fact, I noticed new things about the whole moving of souls when I was studying the transcripts of conversations while making this video. Why can’t the Kains just actually explain things in a way that makes sense???
i can tell why Bad Gruef has accent. You see, in russian he speaks with jargon and slang that is closely tight up with prison and law perpetrating "culture". I guess translators thought that's a way to adapt it
That’s really interesting!
I finally got around to watching these videos (including the semi-hidden fourth one lol) and enjoyed them a lot, this is one of the best discussions of the core plot and endings I've come across. Nice to see a fellow Daniil fan, the man tries his best!
I agree that every ending is imperfect, and in the end all we can do is choose. There's an interesting idea I read that the game is its own focus, like the polyhedron, only it is meant to capture the soul of the player. The miracle of Pathologic is that with these digital puppets and model town it absorbs a real human soul who imbues it with genuine meaning, and who comes away differently. It's certainly true to the influence the game has had on me.
I hope something on this level comes out about Pathologic 2 one day. You mentioned having a complicated relationship with P2, and the endings definitely get into some thorny territory with the Kin and colonialism. However I find P2's endings so interesting, how they represent two competing desires within the Haruspex, rather than P1 where each character is pretty set in their ways. Part of me is inspired by how these were your first videos and they turned out so well and I think "maybe I should try" lol. Everyone inevitably turns to the internet to get out their pathologic ideas eventually I suppose. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on P2 if you ever feel like tackling it.
Im OBSESSED with this series its so well made! Plus your voice is very soothing and the entire series is very enjoyable because of the amazing analysis. Totally related to feeling bad about Daniil I love my trash man. Patiently waiting for more xx
Thank you! I think my voice is kind of nasally, so I’m glad you find it soothing haha. I’m working on the next video now and hoping to get it out before the end of the month.
I just found this channel. It feels like it has exactly the tone and the thoughtfulness I always want but almost never find. Thank you. I can’t wait to binge everything.
Thank you! I hope you enjoy!
I had just finished your second video yesterday and was super anticipating this one, didn’t have to wait long :)
you give such quality content, really hope more people find these
Thank you! I hope this video doesn't disappoint!
so sappy comment time, i found your series during a pretty rough time for me, like havent we all had a rough year, and the ending, where you talk about life still being meaningful meant so much to me when i really needed it most, i still come back and rewatch them as a pick me up and also a way to listen to something i cant really talk to other people about, so… thank you for making this series of videos, and your others as well, im wishing you the best 💖
Thank you so much for your comment! I made these videos because I was also lonely and didn't have anyone to talk about this game with. I'm so glad that they've meant something to you.
@@PlayheadNorth im glad to hear now you have an audience of people who want to hear what you have to say, so again thank you!
I discovered this channel this exact day, and next thing I see it's new video? Hell yeah!
Woooooo! I'm so happy that people seem to be enjoying it.
So, the Haruspex end up being the absurdist hero.
Well, I think all of the protagonists end up being absurdist heroes with their endings. There's just to great way to save the town from the plague.
That moment at the end.....that was real and I felt the sincerity in your words and the context in why you even brought it up.
I hope you continue to make videos in the future and bring your own wit and charm to whatever subject you discuss, after watching all three parts to this video series I can say this was one of the easiest subs I ever did.
Thank you so much! That's such an incredibly sweet thing to say!
Having watched practically every dive into Pathologic on the internet, deep and shallow, I can say unequivocally that yours is the most profound by many leagues, and that is not something I was prepared for.
I hope you do make that next video about what it all means. It suddenly feels very necessary that you do, in fact.
Godspeed.
Thank you! I actually did make the next video, but it's currently unlisted. You can see if if you go to the pinned tweet on my Twitter page. I'm working on releasing a revised version, but it's taking me a while...
@@PlayheadNorth I just finished it. An absolutely superb, gripping, existential conclusion to what I would agree is perhaps the best game ever imagined. The fact that it was imagined by a man who had never even written a game before is nothing short of stunning. I do hope you decide to list it eventually. Whatever Nikolay did or did not do, I do not think it should change the merit of the art he gave us with this masterpiece. Art overcomes the artist and becomes transcendent, that's its function, its apotheosis.
This has been amazing. I realised I've forgotten a lot of things about the haruspex his playthrough. Yeah, the kin beliefs can be really troubling to say in the least.
As a point aside, I've noticed that a lot of people (mostly Americans; not you, though) seem to draw hard, nearly one-on-one comparisons between the Kin and the native population or black population in America. Mostly townfolk treatment of kin = bad, kin practices and culture = good. This is.. a bit problematic because while the treatment of the Kin at the hands of the town, has admittedly bad colonialistic overtones, it seemingly disregards the fact that the Kin practice ritualistic sacrifice for example or treat their women horrendously.
I'm biracial myself with roots from an old colony: I don't feel any kinship with the kin whatsoever because their culture and negative implications to me are so foreign and alienating (despite having the same colonialism vibes), that even drawing these comparisons feels wrong. Mostly because it seems to imply that all of the cultures with a colonialist history experience their culture the same way and it mostly also assumes that Russians have the same colonial baggage that the Americans have, which they don't. Perhaps something to keep in mind if you do start making that video.
I had a slightly differing interpretation about the crankwheel which changed into a wheel of barrel: I took it to mean that it meant that the town was undergoing technological regression. I dont know if that makes things any better though.
A thing about the Kains: you explained the focus and the surrounding context really well. I had a different interpretation of Georgiy and Victor channeling Simon and Nina, other than clinging to the past. To build their Utopia, they needed both Simon and Nina as the building foundation. To me, it added points in to the bachelor's ending. They knew that they were going to die by doing this, but it was either this or let go of their utopian dreams. They chose put their deeds where their mouths were and were willing to die. It's a choice that I can admire. Not every elite is willing to sacrifice themselves but they do always sacrifice a lot of commoners.
Also a minor thing to point out: that building that the arrow points to as Olgimsky's house isn't Olgimsky's house. It's the theater. His house stands near the bridge at the right side of the knots.
One question, I still have for you personally: what is your favorite ending? (not the objective best ending). The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards Dankovsky's, seeing as the consequences are out in the open. I admit I have never ever liked Clara and after playing her route I liked her even less. It just doesn't sit well with me that her route is all about "judging the sinners" while she herself has some shady origins.
Anyway, I'm really looking forward to your next video. Like I said before, the quality is truly superb.
Ack thank you for pointing out the thing about the Olgimskys. I’ll add a correction about the map to the description. This is what happens when you stare at your computer screen for too long while editing lol.
Oh man, I hadn’t thought about the wheel as showing them being stagnant in technology as well, but that’s a good point. I also really like your perspective on the Kains. Seriously, I think the Kains get more hate in the fandom than they deserve. At the very very least, they are by far the most self-aware of the ruling families. And also Victor is, like, super nice, even to Clara. Don’t hate on Victor, people.
I would definitely like to make a video about colonialism and Pathologic, but I would also like to put that off until I have (hopefully) a bigger platform. My family history is super duper white, and I would really like to put out a poll to hear the perspectives of POC, especially people with indigenous heritage, and non-Americans to get more perspectives on how other people interpreted the Pathologic endings, especially the endings of Pathologic 2. Your thoughts above are really interesting (and honestly, a lot of why I wanted to start making videos in the first place is so I could build a community where I can have these sorts of conversations!). I would also really like to try and do some research about the indigenous peoples of Russia before I attempt such a video. I mean, you’re absolutely right about colonialism not being a monolith. I think indigenous cultures globally have often suffered the same sorts of prejudices, but at the same time, I definitely can’t just equate the Native Americans, whose culture I’m most familiar with, as a 1:1 with e.g. the Buryats of Russia. At any rate, I think I’m going to need to take a break from Pathologic after the next video and make some videos about other indie games I’ve liked.
I am really excited that you asked me what my favorite ending is because that’s actually part of my script for the next video!
@@PlayheadNorth yeah, I have never understood the general hatred of the Kains, because Victor and Georgiy are always perfectly respectful. It's especially weird because I feel that if you'd ask most people to choose their picks from all of the ruling houses, they also would choose them over the Olgimskys or the Saburovs.
Most of the Utopians are highly ranked in my pathologic tier list mostly because of their fascinating philosophies and way of looking at life. The Stamatins in particular are amazing, especially after Andrei adopts you as the third Stamatin brother, after Dankovsky is mistakenly shot for being Peter lol. I love the dynamic these three have. Bad Grief with his cowboy acccent is still my absolute favorite though.
I commend and admire you for wanting to tackle the relationships between the kin and the townfolk. I think it's an extremely interesting topic but I also recognise it as being a wasps' nest, to put it very lightly.
I also really like discussions such as these: I tend to hang out in the patholgic reddit forum but there's only like one other fan who has played through all the routes of p1 hd. Most of the discussions, if any, are about p2. It's therefore really nice to have your video essays.
Anyways, I'm really looking forward to your next video! Imma subscribe so I don't miss it.
@@chocolatMouse Thanks! I hope the next video doesn’t disappoint.
And my gosh, I could do a whole video about the tragic relationship between the Stamatin brothers. I wish I could get Peter a therapist.
@Crystal Kanashii Oh, absolutely, and honestly, that's one of the biggest reasons I have really mixed feelings about Pathologic 2.
@Crystal Kanashii I have some really complicated feelings towards this topic.
On the one hand, it is completely true that western cultures tend to depict other cultures badly even when they are trying to depict the other cuture in a good way. It nearly always comes across as the trope of noble savages at best.
On the other hand one could argue that IPL depicted the Kin as a subversion of this common trope. The Kin push back hard against the idea of them not only integrating with the townsfolk, but the ending also reveals that even living together with two groups completely seperate isn't possible without one group dying out. Furthermore, the kin also see themselves as animals and not individuals and believe that they things like language is therefore unnecessary.
It makes me uncomfortable with regards to IPL for depicting the kin, a colonised group of people, asseeing themselves as animals". However, I think it was mentioned that they tried as hard not to base the kin on any existing culture.
And this is the reason why I'm also uncomfortable with some fans of the game drawing easy black and white comparisons between for example the kin and native americans. The kin's beliefs are way way different and the kin's culture has many deliberate negative sides that drawing these comparisons are problematic on the side of the fans as well .
Oh well, it's that time of year again. The time of year I rewatch this entire series and have my internal philosophical debates.
I know from all the questions raised it is probably the smallest and most insignificant, but regarding the weapon skills of Daniil: Conscription. He is from the capital and old enough (I would guess) to have had time for a few months or years of military service on top of his studies. And being the precise and cold person he is, I could totally believe him to be a good shot (especially one who has no problems with aiming to kill, which historically is quite hard to get people to do). Of course that is a very in-universe or "in-the-sandbox" answer.
But you can argue the same point with the godchildren in mind: Of course the temporal setting of the garden is completely impossible to pinpoint, but if we assume it's basically anything before the 1990s, where pretty much any european nation, especially in the east, took it's conscription very seriously, they are probably just used to the fact that any man knows how to shoot atleast somewhat.
Slightly unrelated, but still interesting in my mind, is the fact that "the country" is at war at the time of the plague. The male inquisitor does not arrive because he is needed at the front (atleast I seem to remember a line pointing to that), the troops are complaining about not doing their actual work etc. In Pathologic it is a far distant background noise, but it shows that the godchildren have war on their minds too. (Or hey, maybe they have another sandbox two meters over, there all the soldiers normally kill each other in an elaborate trench system, and from which Block's unit was ordered away. You can't assume anything with godchildren^^)
In Patho 2 war is mentioned more often, with the death of Lara's Father (giving her a better motive to kill Block btw.) and in item descriptions. The revolver touch quote mentions that the civil war has been going on for two years, so if one assumes russia as the setting (instead of just seeing it all as childrens fantasy world and theatric ambition, which I prefer honestly) that results in a precise dating of the setting in 1919 or whereabouts. Interestingly, once asked about the setting, one of the IPL designers answered 1980s Moscow. I often think about that, because while any relation must be allegorically, it still says something about the meta level of the designers and their minds influencing the story. The story of the inception and development of the story of pathologic (starting first with a weird tabletop-theater-mix, then becoming a play, then a video game) is very fascinating in general. It also would make the war in the background Afghanistan, which seems strangely (or perhaps appropriately) fitting for a war that is "somewhere else" but still very much in the minds of the people, be they the inhabitants of the town or the children playing with them.
Basically what I'm saying is, the godchildren have violence on their mind. If that comes from living in a violent world, or if their fantasy world just has violent aspects of play to it (which seems more or less normal for children) remains open to speculation. I have to say, thank you for these videos, never before have I thought about interpreting the world the godchildren live in through the stories they create. Although it all is conjecture and cheap attempts at psychology anyhow :D
Regarding the reactions of the protagonists and the meaning of life and all that: I think I would be closest to Artemy, if supernatural beings revealed themselves to me. It changes little, I never had ability nor ambition to change anything meaningfully big on the cosmic scale. Only the small circles of relevance and meaning we draw around ourselves can be influenced perceptively by myself, so some godchild throwing corona around has little to do with me or my goals. Meaning is manufactured, not existing naturally.
Conscription is definitely a good answer to why Daniil knows his way around a gun, but I still have trouble believing he was trained to snipe people with a rifle lol. But I like your theories about the war!
also, daniil as a child (as revealed by talking to some children on day 10 i think) wanted to be in the military. it could definitely be that shooting was a hobby of his
I only played pathologic 2, and the herb brides and the way Eva dressed irked me. Not in a way that ruined the game, but more reminded me that I'm playing a video game. There is no scantily clad male counterpart. A tutorial with an herb bride shows her completely topless, and all i could think is "ah yes, any excuse for bewbs." Because if you're writing lore for a game, you can write any justicification for boobs. There are no even any topless men in this world. I was so entranced by this world, but the herb brides reminded me it was a video game and gently took me out of the experience. It wasn't a deal breaker by any means. I really love playing pathologic 2 and am looking forward to pathologic 3. But I was always surprised no other reviewer mentioned how weird it is to see people fully dressed for cold weather and then just Eva and the Herb brides dressed for hot weather.
I know it's been some time, but I just finished binging all your Pathologic videos and they are some of my favorite takes on this wacky misery simulator. I hope these get more attention; they really deserve it!
Thank you!
Interesting set of videos.
I do profoundly disagree with your interpretation of Haruspex's ending. Most commonly, (especially with a very strong tarot imagery of both the tower and the wheel) - the wheel represents the exact opposite of the return to status quo. It represents change, usually for the better. The wheel will keep turning, the world keeps moving, the life will keep on being lived. It shows that there is a future. Tyoma will take his place among the kin, yes, but although he doesn't interact with the kids as much in P1 as in P2, every time he tries to convince others of his choice, he speaks of the children. That they will build a new world, a better world. Capella is not her father, the world that she plans to build is very different from the utilitarian world of termites. And while I'm far from impressed of P2 Capella - she ended up being a bit too wishy washy, I do believe in her power in P1. I do believe that she would be able to make this world.
Meanwhile, Tower usually also represents change, but abrupt, catastrophic. The tower and the wheel really are equal and opposite.
The Utopian ending, though, is genuinely terrifying to me. When Maria or Peter start raving about their world order, their vision is incompatible with life. Their creation has unleashed the plague in the first place, and the new world they want to build is several orders of magnitude more profane, because they want those "miracles" to be the default, stripping them of their wondrous nature. Plus, Maria's utopia (as she said, there is a "top" in utopia) is explicitly a meritocracy, a few select individuals on top grounding everyone else into dirt. Progress for the sake of progress at the cost of human life is not worth much, especially not when the exact same things can usually be also accomplished ethically and without sacrifice. Space travel is the feat of human engineering, our ultimate achievement at overcoming gravity. But the lives that have been lost through it... that has been wasteful. Pointless. Preventable. Because other people took shortcuts, they rushed it. Because they decided to overlook certain things. Because mistakes were made. We have learned many bitter lessons that this is not how science must operate. That regulations must be stricter to ensure the safety of everyone involved. This doesn't mean that you can't strive to overcome gravity. But you must do so as safely as possible.
May be, the new Bachelor campaign, whenever it finally comes out, would be able to convince me otherwise, but I didn't really get a strong connection between him and the tower. It was there, on the periphery. He interacted with it a bit, but not enough to fully convince me of its wondrous nature. So it feels like the more appropriate ending for him is to let the plague consume the town than letting Maria do as she pleases. Tyoma has far more motivation and reason to preserve the tower than Danya.
(also, it was heavily suggested multiple times that Victor isn't actually channeling Nina. Not the same way that Gregory is able to channel Simon. Victor is just pretending. He would go through ritual self-sacrifice regardless)
Fundamentally, you play as a doctor. Haruspex's choice saves lives of the sick. Bachelor's does not. Sacrificing real breathing people in order to preserve a monument... that isn't a path of someone who swore an oath of "first, do no harm". It is _a_ choice that could be made by someone, but to call it the best choice...
I do agree with regards to the Changeling. No matter what one of them claims, she is still the personification of the plague. Her blood cult will kill the population just as surely as the plague would, only it would happen slower under a mask of faux innocence (in Plague Inc, the way to kill everyone isn't to go all out, because then the disease ends up starving itself first once it meets active resistance. Rather, you would hide your symptoms, until you are able to touch everyone, and then turn up the lethality). Also, she cannot "save" people on her own. She may be able to prepare the blood, but she still needs Haruspex to make the panacea for cure.
hook these videos directly to my veins!!! i live for in depth pathologic analysis and omg, thank you so much for making these i love them!!!
17:27 So go with Daniil and agree when he says "this cursed town was made for ARTILLERY SHOOTING". It's funny how he sees the town as it is.
35:02 And she was so confident talking to Daniil about how she was the only one who knew the truth, she was the only one who knew the rigth way which just shows that having conviction is not the same as being right. She feels incredibly human and a slap in the face due to that, "am i really right or blind by lack of information and bias?"
I appreciate the honesty expressed in part 7. It is not easy to be so emotionally open and honest in a video, especially one arguing for which ending is the best. While I personally prefer the Haruspex ending, after agonizing for days on trying to understand why, I too realized that it wasn't because it was 'objectively' better. In fact, the secret endings seem almost intent on making you stop judging the endings based on their objective outcomes, after all it's a play, dummy. What made the Haruspex one the best for me was because I too wanted to get a Haruspex doll and say ''It's okay. It doesn't matter that you are a puppet, you will do what you believe is right and that is all that matters. Regardless of what the nature of your world is. Regardless of whether fate exists or not. Regardless of who are the powers that be.'' Though in his case, he would not need me to say anything at all, because he is 100% aware of it. In his own words: ''Every choice is right, so long as it's willed. That's the truth.'' As an agnostic, that resonated a lot with me. He is aware of his own ignorance, and yet chooses to live and do his best regardless.
Absolutely, the ending doesn't matter as much as you choosing to make it.
Honestly, this is one of the best analysis series I've watched, given how much detail is crammed into every video. You have a great style of presentation, and I've learned more about the game by watching this series than I have by replaying the first game like three to four times. As for my own take:
-I think that Pathologic is one of the works that does not have any set interpretations. Given how multifaceted and deep every plotline and element it is, it's both impossible and possible for any interpretation to be true, which is one of the great things about this... franchise? I suppose I've made my point, but I'm only saying this as a preamble because I agree on a lot of things, but a few points are kind of iffy for me.
-I've always just... ignored the children. I'm already not the biggest fan of meta narrative that invalidates the experience/world/whatever but I almost loathe this as a concept. Oddly enough, I am absolutely in love with Mark Immortell and the Theater, as well as the appearance of the developers, since those things gel well with this bizarre world, while the entire sandbox plotline just feels... off. Jarring. Like a jagged edge on an otherwise very smooth object. It's really hard to explain but it just feels unnatural after everything you've experienced, while the prophetic Theater and various conversations you can have with the developers still feel somewhat "in universe" (which is why I actually like them).
-It's really nice to see that someone else is talking about the themes of colonialism and the exploitation of the kin! Even the artbook (for Pathologic 2) mentions that they're very similar to Native Americans. I'm still very early into the second game (day four or five, I think) but it's nice to see that this was expanded upon (and that Boos Vlad was made less of a monster). It definitely ties into my feelings on the ending I prefer, which is...
-The Bachelor (and his ending) live in my head absolutely rent free. This five foot something prickly prick is both the worst and best character in the game. I've never used the term "stan" before I played the Bachelor route. Well, enough of that, my point was that his ending feels like the only "right" one as it treats the disease instead of the symptom (using a medical analogy on purpose). While his view on the town is rather hostile (even you said that he essentially views it as "cramped on a small hill where it shouldn't be") it's also the one that's most understandable from a "logical" point of view. By destroying the town and the tainted soil beneath, the eradication of the plague is more or less guaranteed. While Clara's ending involves a literal blood cult and Burakh's ending can be interpreted as temporary quackery, the Bachelor's ending guarantees a safe future. This is not without it's flaws, though.
-The destruction of the town would mean the destruction of the Kin and the loss of the Abattoir (further playing into the themes of colonialism) which essentially defeats the purpose of a utopia. A utopia is meant to be a safe refuge for all people, not a place where a chosen few can live out their dreams at the expense of an entire people and a rich history of traditions and culture. This is essentially done without the knowledge or the consent of the Kin, given that the Bachelor makes his choice late in the evening without consulting anyone. However, this works into his character because...
-The Bachelor is an idealist. Despite being figuratively and literally kicked in the ribs by everyone and everything around him, from the people back in the Capitol (yes, I'm still ignoring the children), to the locals, to the very Kin who more or less oppose him at every turn, to the ruling families, he is still attempting to achieve his goals. It's almost noble, in a way, since despite all of the hardship he faces he never abandons his goals. He's consumed by myopic dreams of curing death and building a utopia with little regard for the town or the kin, which is understandable given how much opposition he faced while just... trying to do his job. If he wasn't so committed to his own set of rules or guidelines, he'd be a relatively irredeemable character, but despite his flaws it's clear that he's actively trying to do good, despite the implications of his actions. This all ties into my feelings on the ending...
-There really is no good ending for Pathologic. Burakh's ending sacrifices a scientific miracle and the guarantee of permanent safety as well as a possible utopia in exchange for saving the town and it's culture, the Kin, and all of the things that matter in the present and the past. While it's not my favorite, it's incredibly heartwarming to see Burakh become the leader of the Kin and ultimately save them from malevolent or uncaring external influences. In a way, he uses the past to interact with the future (I hope this line makes sense soon).
Clara's ending achieves nothing, at least in my opinion. It represents stagnation at any cost; the Kin are still around, but they are not safe. The plague is cured, but it can come back at any moment, much stronger and perhaps even resistant to the Panacea. The Polyhedron is still present, but no utopia exists. It's sacrifice to maintain a status quo which is ultimately a disservice to everyone. She tries to combine the past and the future only to result in them cancelling out and creating absolutely nothing.
The Bachelor's ending is the one that conflicts me the most, and I'm really not sure how to feel about it despite being my favorite ending. The plague is destroyed, Daniil achieved his victory, and the town is reborn in a much better state than it was before, but the Kin, the culture, the history, it was all sacrificed for this vision of a better future without them being so much as asked about it. It *DOES* lead to a utopia, but a utopia where not everyone is included; a utopia built upon the back of rather malevolent actions. Is it still truly a utopia? This type of dilemma is quintessential to the entire concept of a utopia, with the primary question being "what does it take for a utopia to be built"? Essentially, this ending is characterized by "the ends justify the means" and it poses the question of whether you are willing to do the "right" thing (remove the plague, rebuild the town, save a scientific miracle, achieve your own goals) by doing all the "wrong" things (sacrificing the Kin, their culture, their history, the Abattoir, the town itself) in the process. It honestly makes me feel really bad, but also incredibly hopeful for the future of the town and its surviving inhabitants. It's also an incredibly fitting end for Daniil, which is what makes me appreciate it even more. There's really no way to justify it, as the Kin don't deserve to be... erased in such a brutal fashion (via bombardment, no less) but the achievements are undeniable. Not really sure how to feel about this, except really bad.
-The Kains use the future to preserve the past - Simon in particular. Simon complicates this matter further as he is, well, a brilliant man who's continued existence would insure progress, advancement, perhaps even prosperity. But the question is, if placed on a scale, would Simon's life truly outweigh the lives, experiences, culture, history, et cetera of the Kin and the Town? Would you truly be able to justify that? No. If viewed from the lens of the player, this is (largely) unacceptable without a first place medal in mental gymnastics, however...
-If you are playing as the character, in this case Daniil, instead of treating the character like a puppet you control, this IS a legitimate choice. Given Daniil's unique goals, aspirations, experiences, and worldview, the choice becomes much more reasonable. The Kin are (presumably) lost, but what is achieved is likely more than enough for Daniil to accept the side effects of his actions. Again, he comes off a strict idealist, which prevents him from being a monster. He isn't doing this out of some disregard or hatred for the Kin (I'd hope), he's doing it because it'd be the most logical thing for him to do. It's the choice he'd make, regardless of the circumstances, which is why I love this ending despite the implications.
-If I was speaking strictly from the point of view of some third party, metaphysical entity, it'd be hard to justify any of these endings. Daniil's is problematic for various reasons, Clara's is a disaster, and the Haruspex's ending upsets me due to the loss of the Polyhedron, a scientific miracle that could be impossible to replicate. However, only Burakh's ending would be the reasonable choice (if viewed through the lens of the characters just being your avatars, instead of being characters you control), as there's no real way to justify just razing the town and the Kin or starting a blood cult without serious mental gymnastics or denial.
-Sorry if this is rambling and incoherent, I barely get six hours of sleep a night! Apologies if it's too long, I just *love* this series and your unique perspectives on this gem of a game. If you somehow manage to stomach this quasi-essay, cheers.
It’s very much a complicated game with no clear answer, and dang, that’s what makes it so good.
This is my favorite recent video series. I hope you make videos for decades
Awww, that's an incredibly sweet thing to say!
i am SO glad to hear you mention the bathroom thing because it's something that's been driving me crazy and now i know im not the only one
that aside i loved your videos and how in depth and nuanced they were, probably the best i've seen about pathologic, thank you so much for making them!
Anyway, what was Yulia's sin? I get it that she is a fatalist and just plays along with the Clara's choice, but Rubin calles her en evildoer. Am I blind or was it not stated?
I can’t remember which character says this, but one of the characters tells Clara that Yulia was the one who told Saburov to implement the strict policing policy that, e.g., wound up with a bunch of people being put in jail and dying of the plague on day six. Apparently she predicted that it would decrease the violence overall or something. I assume that’s what her sin is supposed to be?
But you’re right, it’s really unclear. iirc Clara’s letter about her ending calls Yulia as “Yulia the Unbeliever,” which does kind of insinuate that her sin is her fatalist tendencies. Who knows, honestly. Either way, Yulia really doesn’t deserve to be a blood sacrifice.
My personal thanks for you for making an analysis via female optics since I rarely found it by myself though feeling it. I think the game in whole represents the horrible truth about reality. Even although colonialism is bad there are “kinda” reason for something of it - education and giving more rights to the weak members who in most cases suffer it traditional way of living. Many agree that Haryspex ending is the best, but I personally as I girl could feel what is there about kin that I don’t like. And it’s like the reality itself: don’t touch traditional way of life because it’s more natural and “healthy” but you’ll have to see this lack of science and humanism in their way of living. However utopia dreams rarely can come out without blood or sacrifices or taking the power by wrong people and that’s also the truth
So there is really no happy ending it’s a choice of sacrifice as it is in our life and that’s why I love this game
And special thanks for the map about leaders souls being placed in Focuses, I enjoyed it
This video essay, by the way, has been referenced in my essay analysis of the film There Will Be Blood. That's how much I love this video essay- that is being used in an academic essay. God. I love this video.
Ik really curious aboutbyour thoughts on the kin and herb brides depiction in patho 2, will you everaje that video? I love this video btw
I have really complicated thoughts about how the Kin and the herb brides are treated in P2. I think the game does really well in some areas and really poorly in others, but I’m not sure if I’ll make the video-partially because I’m not sure that me, a white person, is the greatest candidate to talk about all that and partially because I’m not sure if I want to deal with the bad faith comments that I’ll inevitably get after it.
@@PlayheadNorth I totally understand ❤️ thanks for touching on it in this video anyway. I just finished patho 2 and I also have mixed feelings
I personally like to think that "the best ending" depends on whose path you're on.
For Daniil I always choose to save the town and for Artemy I always choose to save the tower. It just feels right to do so, to deny the predetermined path for the protagonist, to let them grow beyond what they suppose to be.
That’s one of the things I find so interesting about the game. The writing of the characters’ perspectives are such that each of their endings fits them perfectly.
I think the main point with pathologic, admittedly coming from my limited understanding of the game, is that even if you can look back on endings with hindsight after the fact, when you have to live in the shoes of these people and experience the hardship they face, make the decisions they do, and quite literally walk SEVERAL miles in their shoes you are very likely going to feel it is the right ending in that moment. (Or mostly, Clara is a little wonky but she's doing her best. Also sorry for all the commas, it's the best way I could say what I meant
Also god damn, Pathologic introspecrives are really good at getting deep into emotional stuff, and if it helps you feel any better, it at least struck a tune with me and I'm hardly even religious.
Really one of the things I find most interesting about Pathologic is that the game puts you so deeply into the heads of the characters that you want to make their choice even if you don't agree with it because that's the choice that makes sense on their route.
I had been enjoying this video essay series so much, but I burst out into tears in the last section, very beautifully put
Awww thank you! I hope you’re doing okay.
ALL HAIL THE SANDBOX GOD!
My take as someone who has only consumed Pathologic via RUclips video essays but does have decades of experience in childcare:
The sacrifice works. Like, the quasi-literal giant delicious egg sacrifice by the children.
They're children. Yet, the world of their imaginations is filled with complex relationships and themes and words frankly well beyond their child development stage. The children are just shaking the dolls around and going "nuh-uh, my science is right!" and "then he shoots him right in the head bang!" and "jump in the hole! Jump in the hooooole!", but the power of their *belief* in their own imagined world makes it real, imbues these cotton dolls with real relationships and the speech of adults, if very strange adults.
This same belief will literally protect the town from whatever rot is in the sand, for as long as the kids leave offerings and believe. Which, yes, won't be forever. The town will eventually be taken by the sand rot, but that is inevitable. All things end, be it a jug of water, a human life, the Earth, or childhood.
If you count what does look a lot like large loaves of bread as parts of the sand castle, which is what it looks more like in the overhead shot of the castle in the changeling ending, there are seven food items being offered by the children. This is my guess as to how the sacrifice works, instead of them literally destroying seven of their probably limited supply of dolls.
The Changeling ending is absolutely problematic, in world, but that world is literally the least real part of Pathologic. But I think it's important to consider the feeling explicitly being expressed by the ending, and the metaphorical message of it.
Admittedly, that is a big pill to swallow and a very inelegant transition of narrative priorities, and it involves a fair amount of being told how to feel instead of being lead there for longer than a conversation with characters that you have spent a few minutes with in a sixtyish hour game. A less rushed third ending would have either made this transition smoother or gone in an entirely different direction. Part of why I like this ending is that it feels like a last-minute yet heartfelt decision, when something just *feels* like the right way to go and you/your team just *go for it*.
Anyway, I really enjoy and interpret the Changeling ending as endorsing a resurrection of the younger ways - both of a younger human society and the ways of human young - not a modernity-shunning return to the old ways as seen in the Haruspex ending, but a synthesis of scientific idealism and reverent mysticism. The fact that such an interpretation is in line with my own spiritual beliefs is ENTIRELY BESIDES THE POINT
Oooh, I really like your interpretation of Clara's ending!
What i'm curious of is since the dolls literally come to life when they meet the Powers That Be, does that make the dolls some sort of focus? Or is it more that they're tulpas or something?
I love how you went into depths about the details about the routes, though I do feel (from my POV) you might have read a bit too much into the endings. I agree that it's a logical speculation that Capella's plan to reform and rebuild the town may not turn out promisingly, but I only take the ending as what it is, as long as the game does not imply otherwise. The same goes with your assumption that in Bachelor's ending there are enough panacea for patients.
As for Khan and Notkin, I feel they have a bit of weird friendship between them, and there is a chance they may really settle down for a peaceful cooperation. The Kin's inherited violence and misogyny is, undoubtedly, a serious issue, but honestly I think Daniil is an active misogynist in his own way. And the Kains rebuilding a utopia... it feels to me as utopian as Capella's scheme, so I really didn't feel the advantage/disadvantage b/w these two on the scale of feasibility.
As for the parallel between the Kin and Native Americans: I think American whites should stop centering the world around them, especially when it only serves to make them feel good and woke.
The stuff about selling daughters and sacrificing bulls, etc. are just aspects of feudalism, and it's not something weird, exotic and can be eliminated simply by destroying a town and its people. Would the Buryats suddenly become assimilated into "west""modern" culture when they move to western europe? Well... if only, I would think it's more likely in 2nd and 3rd endings, but not like some foreign colonizers indoctrinating the local folks, because "you bad me good". I may not be a huge fan of moral relativism, but criticizing the ritual practices and cultural traditions of nomadic people with modern moral standards sounds pretty condescending and colonialist to me. (It's not a personal attack; I just don't feel judging the fate of a community is a thing for common people.)
I like to think critically about the ways in which a story will paint a certain event that may or may not match what will likely happen with the event or how that event will be perceived by other characters. Your mileage will obviously vary with that, and it is definitely possibly that I have overanalyzed the endings here. But I think it's really interesting how even in stories that seem to be presented in an objective manner, there is always an element of subjectivity due to the way that the story is framed.
I am sorry if my analysis of the Kin was patronizing or condescending. It was not my intention, and as I mention in the video, I fully acknowledge that colonialism as it exists in Pathologic is a very complicated topic. However, I will just respectfully note that I never mentioned Native Americans in the video. I know that there is another comment thread where I discussed Native Americans, but I understand that the Kin are inspired by Mongol subgroups who live in Russia, particularly the Buryats.
@@PlayheadNorth Hi: Please don't worry!! I did not mean hostility to you, and I think your analysis of the plot is certainly well-considered in any case. I only had some disagreement, but I read through my comments and realized I sounded unnecessarily angry, which is a mistake. As for the native American parallel -- same as in another comment, I saw it elsewhere. It is a bit common in the English fandom. This was not targeted at your video, and I should have made it clearer, so sorry for the confusion!
No worries! And please, it's totally fine to disagree! Life would be so boring if everyone agreed with me. I actually find everyone's different interpretations of Pathologic to be really interesting.
Finally had the time to get through all three episodes and this is some of the best Pathologic analysis I've ever seen (every time I discover something new from this fandom it's pure gold). It's good to see more in-depth discussions of the story and endings, and you've brought up some really interesting points that are going to be on my mind during my next playthrough (particularly that note about how much misogyny is built into the culture of the town, really puts the Haruspex ending into a new perspective). Fantastic work, I look forward to seeing part 4 when it's done and I will definitely be checking out the rest of your channel.
On a final note, why did you have to point out that none of the houses have bathrooms? That revelation is going to haunt me!
Thank you! And I'm sorry for haunting you about the bathrooms! Now you live in my purgatory!
Bathtub with bottles and cans in it? Sounds like a party. Literally. Imagine a bathtub full of water and ice cubes keeping all the bottles and cans cold.
I don’t know that I would want to sleep in that bathtub though. Great for parties, bad for getting shut eye.
It's probably the most minor question presented in the essay, but as for where the bathrooms are, the townsfolk likely go outside for it. An outhouse, for example.
I think your criticism of the Haruspex ending ignores too much the influence and mire that is colonialism.
I also think in by doing so do you misinterpret Artemy's misogyny.
Capella is indeed supposed to represent a new beginning, however, it is a new beginning that is free from the influence of the colonizers.
Artemy's talk about the will of the Earth is clearly showing how this society, before intrusion, had placed great reverence on its holy women.
This import continues in fragmentary form, as is usually the case for the colonized, in the ruling family's matriarch's position of power and psychicness.
Taya's position also reinforces this "we were originally a matriarchy" idea.
Viewing things through an anticolonialist lense is shown to be the intent of the developers when the changes in 2 are taken into account.
Thus, this ending isn't a return to the status quo (how it is viewed through the lens of a colonizer) but it is a renewal of the prelapsarian state of the town/world (how it is viewed through the lens of anticolonialism).
Of course this video is your personal opinion, so you have the right to put whatever you want. I guess I just wanna point out that your discussion of Artemy's ending emphasized a lot on the flaws of the townfolk themselves and therefore puts the ending in a much more negative light. It hurts me a little, because I would choose Artemy's ending over and over again without question. Although I recognize its not so much as the way the argument is structured in a objectively right/wrong way, but how deeply the story of Pathologic resonates with a player (like myself) so we become so very personally invested in the choices that we make
Anyway with that point aside, I would choose Artemy's ending as my best ending. I recognize the flaws of the Kin. The Townsfolk are prejudiced against them (and that's wrong), but it is also true that their traditions are harmful and have practices that step on the rights of other Kin.
But my experience in real life with indigenous people, organizing with them and protesting with them, taught me that you dont give up on anybody that is exploited and oppressed no matter what. Even if they have traditions you dont agree with, because they are more likely to phase out the harmful traditions if they are engaged by other people rather than being left alone
Same goes with the rest Town. Yeah, the Town is fucked up. Lots of bandits and the children are participating in lumpenic activities. But so is a lot of places. Especially where I'm from.
When I occupied Artemy and played as him, I took from my own experiences in deciding that the chance that they not change at all and stay the same unlikely (because everything changes especially when people try to make it happen), and I would not take away the chance to change away no matter how unlikely
Thanks for the video. Loved the ride it took me on
11:34
Killing 92 people: “eh. Its just their culture. Maybe a little bad but idk”.
Arranged marriage: “THIS IS ABSOLUTELY HORRIFIC AND THE TOWN SHOULD BE SHELLED INTO OBLIVION”.
Murdering 92 people seems like it should also be a huge “yikes”. I think video games have literally desensitized us to just how awful KILLING someone is. If I had to pick between arranged marriage and dying, im definitely going with the arranged marriage. You dont need to waffle and hedge around saying “hey, killing people is bad, regardless of the tradition and culture”.
This video was delicious thank you for feeding my pathologic analysis video addiction
You are welcome! Thank you for consuming my Pathologic analysis addiction.
12:30 WOOOOOOW, SO IT WAS HIM!!!!!! I wonder if Daniil knows?! It would be weird if either the father or Dan didnt went to see each other for justice or something
Given the news that has come out about Nikolay Dybowski, I am adding this pinned comment to all of my Pathologic videos. Basically, there is credible evidence against him. If you want to look at the evidence against him, follow this link, but please note a content warning for CSA: docs.google.com/document/d/1KeKKptAkn1D662UZYdWWg-mr16YbYK-S/edit.
In light of this, I want to encourage people to take a look at these allegations for themselves and let their friends who might be interested in Pathologic know about them as well. The rumor is that these allegations have been an open secret around Dybowski for some time, and one of the worst things people in the Pathologic community can do is let them fade into secrecy once more. I am not going to judge you if you want to continue engaging with Pathologic; I am simply asking that you do so with knowledge of this evidence against its creator.
If you would like to do something to help, the following tumblr has some great links for organizations you can donate to: auroraoptica.tumblr.com/post/647700868588863488/hey-everyone-given-the-recent-news-from-twitter.
Thanks everyone, and take care of yourselves.
Thanks for spreading the news. Sadly I can not see the post since I don't own a Twitter account. Anyway: no matter the crimes of a person, it does not render their art „evil“. Even more so if a whole team worked on it (MLP for example had a similar case). However, one does not need to support the creators directly. I‘m not necessarily encouraging piracy but one could always purchase a previously owned copy on CD for example. This way they are not getting any income from you enjoying their game. Well, at least when comes to the original Pathologic releases. I‘m not sure if PHD and P2 can be played DRM free.
Yeah, the whole thing is a mess. I posted this right after the accusations came out. There’s a more current list of what’s happened here: www.ditisemile.com/04/17/dybowski-allegations/
Wow thats soms really dissapointing news. Im torn as i both despise child predators but dont want anything to happen that could affect the development of pathologic 2's new routes.such bad news😰😰😰
@Gabriel Vinícius do Nascimento Fuuuuck, you're right. Also note that some dancers in the bar are not 18 yet.
54:36 Imagine how many dolls of bandits, guards and arsos are destroyed if this is true, maybe for the important dolls, like the bounds, who have their on profile picture, but for the others, we killed so many people in our way, that would be impossible to they have many dolls for the generic ones, I think they just say, "he died" let it in the ground then "ok I will need another bandit, I think I gonna use this one again". I see Clara ending as the best one, not for the town, but for the children, they see that die, is natural, and with the pass of time, people we love will die, and we gonna take their place in the future they fought for us, the children finally after stop put their sadness, frustation and rage by the unfair death of their grandfather, they see the town is still fighting, trying to survive and live, never give up, Clara born from the earth, from nothing, the kids don't see to undestand, like see never was planning to be played, one of they see her as a pest, because she is stopping one of the kids for put his frustation in the dolls, curing the pest, when the other see her as a Miracle-worker, like see is showing that even in the worst, there still hope, the kids after chat with Clara, they open their eyes, they stop crying, and give food as a thanks, they left the town alone, they left the polyhedron, they give peace for the dolls, unlike the Bachelor ending, he make the kids give up from the town, destroying one of the only things with bringed they comfort in this hard times, and left the polyhedron alone, with could be a representation of the death of their grandfather, thinkg with me, a old man just die a day before our heroes get in town, Simon could very well be their grandfather, it's confusing, hard to understand why he is not there anymore, after all they are just kids, the Bachelor is the scary clown, because if the Bachelor win, is the kids losting the hope and give up everything, they erase the town, the good memory, only remembering that he is dead now, and there is nothing they can do, the plague will not get back, they not deny he is dead, but also don't learn how to live with it, the Haruspex ending is the kids getting locked in the past, like they are trying in a way to say he is not dead, saving the town and throwing the polyhedron away, getting that confusing thing, the death of a loving one, out of the town, saving only the good memory, and never accepting he is gone now, with can work for a time, but the plague may get back again, maybe from other loving one death.
That why I say Clara is the best ending, both kids learn to live, they don't give their hope, the town, but also learn how to live with the confusing of death, of life, the polyhedron stop be that evil being of the plague, they learn how to live with it, the plague may come back, but the will be ready for it, they give food for the town, as a thanks, and can finally overcome their grandfather death, by the help of a doll they didn't undestand, by the help of Clara, by the help of a Miracle-worker
Oh, that's a really interesting interpretation of Clara's ending. I hadn't thought of that.
One note, the "Herb bride" of the stamatin pub is not a herb bride, it uses the same model but is a regular non-kin caucasian, "adopted" ( kidnapped ) by HunchBack.
I think its somewhat of a mirror image about the rights of vulnerable women, on one hand you have the Kin, representative of backwards traditions, that treat herb brides as a commodity to be consumed and then you have the human trafickers who profit from women by turning them to a commodity to be consumed. I think it all revolves around the philosophy of the game, no matter what you do, or who you are, nothing changes unless the individuals develop a conscience and mend their ways, violence against women wont change regardles of culture as long as humans dont change their mindsets to a more egalitarian one ( most of the spread of the plague is related to the pollitical conspiracies and rigid traditions used for personal gain in detriment to everyone else ).
Its one of those hard morality tales, as for me, i took a knife and killed the butchers, brute bullies demanding sacrifice from others by using violence because "Muh Tradition" is something i cant stand.
Yeah, Willow’s backstory is weird and not 100% sorted out in the game, but I assume she must still be a member of the Kin because I believe that Daniil makes the same comments about how the Kin seem to have an increased ability to fight the sand pest if you give him her heart. (Not completely sure about that last point since I don’t have access to my game scripts to double check atm).
I, too, killed the butchers because I was not on board with the human sacrifice, so I totally get your points above. I think it’s interesting that the Kin seem to be pretty upset that Andrey pays the herb brides to dance in his pub. Yet it doesn’t seem like he’s coercing them to be there, and I’m sure working for him gives them a greater measure of autonomy.
I saw a comment one time that you could write a whole essay about the woman who dances in Andrey’s pub (this was specifically about P2, but it could really apply to either game), and I can’t stop thinking about that comment because yes.
Wow! RUclips Aagorithm comes through for once. I'm so glad it suggester your videos. I own all the Pathologic games and have gotten about halfway through the sequel but thats it. Its not the difficulty I struggle with but the interminable slowness of them. I want to drive forward and experience more of the story but they all have a very deliberate pacing that I just cant get over. But I love the lore and world building and the sheer bleakness of Pathologic. I consume any media on it I can find. I've seen HBomberguys and Sul Matuls critiques and playthroughs of it more times than I can count. If you or anyone else here hasn't seen it, Ragnarox has a really good review of it as well. I just wanted to say that your videos rank up there with the best of them. You have a genuinely unique take that I hadn't heard before and its illuminating to see it from another perspective. I have subscribed and will look forward to more of your analyses of Pathologic or any other games you may be interested in.
I hope this gets the views it deserves; very thoughtful, well researched, and masterfully produced. Bravo!
Thank so for your kind words! There's so much plot and nuance to Pathologic that it's fascinating to hear all of the different takes on the game.
57:32 just a cut content, when houses have had multiple entrances.
def my favorite deep dive into this lump of art
Hey, thanks for the last message in your video, been passing through some rough times in life rn. Never thought I would find such a positive inspiration in here, really encouraged me to keep going, again Thank you!
I’m so glad it helped! Life can be so hard, and I like acknowledging that as much as I can in my videos because no one should feel alone in their struggles.
Oh, baby. You had me at "*plagued me*"
Woah I found this channel last night and now a new video. I’m so exited
Yay! I hope you liked the video!
i'm an atheist but if god exists i hope he loves me as much as you love daniil dankovsky
Haha, I hope so too!
44:27 Also what if she dies??
52:12 This also explains why she's okay with her ending, also feels like she's prioritizing stuff over people, when she says that she knows the truth she's refering to the Powers That Be. I wonder uf That's a actually outside the down, i hope so.
Your text and arguments area great, thanks!
That last like 3-5 minutes is everything :) Damn that actually lifted my mood too
Aww, thank you!
I'm a couple years late, I know, but it's interesting that you feel the way that you do about the Kains. In my Bachelor playthrough, the impression I got from them was that of a family so distraught with the death of a loved one--and to a plague that would soon ravage the town once again--that they fell into delusion. I didn't think that Simon or Nina really lived through them, but rather that this was an extreme method of coping with their losses; pretending that their spirits lived on through them, and that Simon wasn't actually dead the whole time. It was too bizarre, and everything else up to that point was mostly grounded in reality, so I didn't buy the whole ghost thing, and I doubt the Bachelor really did, either.
And on the topic of the Changeling's ending, I noticed then that the human sacrifices ran parallel with the two children giving offerings to the sandbox. Similarly to the Kains, I figured that the children were playing this game as a way of dealing with their grief. They're playing this during a funeral, after all, so offering (fucking *massive*) peanuts and other food to the sandbox was like making a sacrifice to the departed. It's why the whole thing is framed as good and touching, music and all. And besides that, this was the ending of the whole game since it's assumed you played through the Bachelor and Haruspex routes already, so I imagined it was like a sendoff.
Shame about the developer. I only just learned about this and had a daydream of creating something with the author maybe someday but now I'm not so sure. I was already thinking they might have a twisted mind anyways, but its a shame. This story is beautiful. I have no idea of the full scope of the game but it's so amazing to analyze everything. Your explanation for the fucking children actually made me realize how fucking crazy the story is with the whole fucking plastic bottle and rotting sandcastle...
It's a great story, but yeah, knowing that Dybowski is an abuser really complicates everything.
I like the... trichotomy (hey, that IS a word. Cool.) of the three main characters. Daniil is Progress, Artemy is Tradition, and Clara is the Chaos woven between them. She can both heal and harm with only her hands, and gameplay-wise, you make this choice yourself by either harmfully waving your hands at attackers, or helpfully waving your hands at plague victims. Meanwhile, as Daniil, you're a healer who will (depending upon who you ask) inevitably do harm. In contrast, as Artemy, you are named The Ripper, a bloodthirsty monster inflicting brutal death upon the town and its inhabitants, despite at heart being a healer/shamanistic character who is genuinely trying to heal the town.
That was so good. You're very underrated.
You have so many tasty ideas to chew on thanks for serving them up!
Haha, you're welcome!
I'm so glad you decided to finish this series of videos, I love Pathologic and really enjoyed listening to listening to your thoughts about it, I hope you get more views
Thank you! I'm so glad you enjoyed the videos!
26:06 I thought Nina was the lady in red, as that portrait's in both Geogiy and Victors rooms. Also, she's described as the scarlet mistress by several of the townsfolk.
Nina is likely the woman pictured in the houses of the Kains, but she’s also definitely the woman with black hair in the theater. The woman with blonde hair in the theater is Victoria Olgimskaya.
@@PlayheadNorth Ah, I see. I thought that maybe you didn't show that portrait because it might've been a little too racy for youtube. It was a little awkward scanning the room and waiting for Victor to get up off his desk chair, only to see that provocative portrait and then turn to see him staring at you. The blood cult ending is not a very certain ending either as perhaps instead of sacrifice in full, blood donations could be obtained from a large populace without killing them; but then again perhaps she doesn't have the power to do that many conversions; and the most pressing concern I thought you would of had for Clara's blood cult is that Clara could die and well . . . what then? Nevertheless I enjoyed your takes on this game as well as your essay on FF7 and look forward to seeing what you take on in the future.
additionally i don't know what exactly yulia did wrong besides i guess being too smart for a woman or something? based on how superstitious and misogynistic the town itself is i wouldn't rule that out as a reason she's sinister but i still don't get why that makes her on the level of someone like anna angel or bad grief
I will accept that the town thinks her to be a spooky witch queen because she’s so smart.
Rewatching this series after finally playing the game, THANK YOU
I’m glad you liked it!
@@PlayheadNorth soooo... what about the next videos in this series?
Very excited for the 4th video! I'm also very happy I got you in my recommended out of nowhere, looking forward to your future videos and essays after this series
Also, take your time with making these videos! No sense in burning yourself out, we really enjoy these videos :)
Thank you! I’m so glad you’re enjoying my videos! I have a tendency to obsess about something until I burn myself out on it (like uuuuuhhhh a certain video game lol), but I’m going to try to pace myself with my videos now that I’m actually seeing some engagement!
I think Clara's bound are people that want to be sacrificed. Either out of guilt or depression. They are given a way out or a purpose as a way to handle their nihilism.
Also I don't understand why destroying the village makes any difference if the people survive. If anything that would just mean that they as refugees would spread the plague to other towns. Besides some of the soldiers might be sick too at this point.
how beautiful! thank you for sharing your thoughts & im really looking forward to your future videos :)
Thank you! I’m glad you enjoyed the video!
48:39 That's crazy, but makes sense.
What about the secret SECRET ending? (the one with the tragedian and executor at the theatre) How would that frame your opinions on the endings?
I talk about that in the next video, which is currently unlisted. You can find it by going to the pinned comment on my twitter.
@@PlayheadNorth Thank you
Can't wait for your next video and to finally find out which ending is your favorite! By the way, have you thought about creating a video about the dynamics between the Mistresses and what is the mission of each Mistress, how do they differ? It seems to me that this is a very interesting topic, and few people (to be honest, I don’t remember anyone, but I will shield myself with such an answer) spoke about it in detail. I would be happy to know your thoughts about the Mistresses!
Oooh, that's a good idea! I'll keep a deep lore dive into the Mistresses in mind, though to be perfectly honest, I'm going to need a bit of a break from Pathologic once I'm finished with the next video.
Okay, about Yulia... She was a part of a group who came from the Capital to built the town, a mathematician, an analyst. Even before she gave questionable advices to people of power, she bears the weight of a town being as it is, like a labyrinth, like a Net. It makes so much sense for the player, tired of dead ends and random walls we can’t climb over, to try to have a little petty revenge on her. Lara tried to murder Block because her father was killed under his command, regardless of what she herself may claim. Anna Angel killed the family that took her in and took over their daughter’s appearance, erasing her existence, and she is suffering.
Like this, we can justify pretty much anything. While the most brutal and unpleasant upon close inspection, Clara’s ending supposed to be an epiphany at the end. Painful epiphany, fragile, full of uncertainty. It makes a lot of sense actually. If both the newest achievements of medicine and traditional remedies turn out to be useless, people turn to miracles. Like this, children by the sandbox, who are trying to cope with their loss (I presumed that the sand town supposed to represent the body of their grandfather, and the Polyhedron, a glass keepsake, is his spirit - things they remember about him), are trying to imagine a scenario where their loved one could have been saved - for them Clara’s miracle can be the best. After all, the people in the town are their beloved dolls, and the whole scenario shows that they are willing to sacrifice things dear to them for something even more precious. Them offering the food to sandbox is a sign of reverence - the town now is more than a sand, it’s alive. And also dead probably, because it is still incredibly common for people in Russia to leave food on the graves for the loved ones who are gone (I myself did it since I was a child big enough to go to cemetery with adults).
Overall, great video, will be waiting for the next part. It’s really refreshing to hear female voice in analysis videos.
I appreciate all of your thoughts on Clara's ending. The food thing makes so much more sense -- thanks for the insight! And dang, I knew that Lara's issue with Block was her father dying under his command in Pathologic 2, but I guess it's in the first Pathologic as well, just very buried.
this was chilling, poignant, and so thoughtful. really great video, and i enjoyed watching it.
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
I wished I could play the real deal on PS4. The actual first game. Because simply trying to watch it on RUclips...it takes all of the fun out. Then again, trying to see it on RUclips can allow me to have a more cinematic perspective of the three characters and their stories.
This is a really really good analysis, deconstruction and reconstruction as a series. So good that after probably ten hours of reviews, recommendations and a third r word this is probably what will prompt me to go out and get it.
As someone who stopped taking English classes at 16 and enjoys MCU movies, I don't think I'm equipped to really give any deeper reflection, but I will say that The Last Of Us 2 is a very polished gameplay experience with a relatively simple narrative that investigates games not being Fun with a capital F, and I can only imagine that the complexity and faith in the player Pathologic has is a very interesting use of some of the same broad strokes.
Hey, I enjoy MCU movies as well, so there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! I haven't played The Last of Us games, but from what I know of The Last of Us 2, I am really curious to see what I would think about it. My main qualm is that I'm not really one for violent games, and I know the series is reasonably violent.
a third r word?
This is an extremely good video series! I can't wait for another the next part!
Thank you! I actually have an initial version of the next part up, but it's currently unlisted. You can see it by going to the pinned tweet on my Twitter account.
@@PlayheadNorth I will definetly check that one out. Thank you!
@@PlayheadNorth This isn't the case anymore, right? I can't find the video on your Twitter.
Excellent video! I really enjoyed hearing your thoughts
Thank you! I’m glad you liked the video!
Loved the series (and your voice/narration). Please consider doing such in-depth analysis to other games...
Thank you! I do have something else in the works...
Woah these videos are amazing! Binging through them after playing P2 and cannot get enough! Amazing. You should also cover P2 as well. I know maybe it's a lot of effort for nothing, and theres a lot of other youtubers that have covered that already, but you personal angle, you point of view is still unique and very different from anyone else. That said, thank you some much for all of these! And great job. Very well done all around. You have a new sub!! And i always considered contributing to smaller channels, so if you ever make a Patreon and plan to do this fairly consistently (i know it's a big commitment, but what ifs) I'll seriously consider contributing and I'm sure some of these people would as well.
Edit: and yeah, you should definitely lock your fanfiction behind patreon (or, well, some of it). Sounds like an asshole, but it's an incentive. A compromise: to keep these beautiful, interesting video coming. I fear too much you dropping all of this because it takes waaay too much effort .. sad noises . Please 🙏 think about it
Thank you! I'd like to do a video on Pathologic 2, but I want to work on some other things first. I'm a little burned out on Pathologic video essays at the moment.
I think it's a little premature to do a Patreon at this point, but I'll keep your suggestions in mind!
I've been waiting for this!
Yay! It took a while to make, so I hope you enjoyed it!
I am here for the existentialism
I'm just a sophomore starting my 2nd playthrough of P2 but i think it delves more into the theater/4th wall breaking aspects (in some ways the whole game is presented as like a travelling theater production, would explain certain weird things), the September twyrine is getting to my lungs and im coming up with all sorts of wacky theories
after seeing all this footage if I'm still looking for more masochism maybe I'll get P1
Oh yeah, the theater is played up much more in P2. P2 is just overall a much more theatrical game, whereas P1 feels more like a book on philosophy.
I don’t know if playing P1 is more masochistic than P2. It kind of depends on what you like in a game. P2 is definitely harder than P1, and I found it much more punishing. Overall I enjoyed P1 quite a bit more, but I also didn’t mind all of the walking around and esoteric conversations in P1. Some people find that aspect of P1 irritating or boring, though, so your mileage really varies.
Just started this video but ive thought about this a lot. My conclusion from playing is the characters ending that u played as is the best ending. choosing artery's ending when playing as daniil just felt so wrong as it didnt fit daniils goals.
also, personally i love the daniil ending bc i love daniil and i think its a really interesting ending for his character!
@@vriscoursed2470 The character's ending is so well-suited for the character you're playing as.
Wouldn't it be cool if they made a Multiplayer Version of Pathologic 1?? Like... there's three Players, Danill, Artemy and Clara... and the Object of the game is to reach your Character's ending before the others do... would all be in the same Game World, so maybe could even Sabotage the others?? Or... maybe even work together to create an even better ending?? Would be cool, I think, lol.
I binged watched the entire series its freaking fantastic. Love love love.cannot wait for next video