From a former Mi-24 / HIND scientific & technical intelligence analyst for the US Army Foreign Science & Technology Center [ FSTC ], now the National Ground Intelligence Center [ NGIC ] in Charlottesville, VA. I was the principal technical analyst on the Mi-24 / HIND during the 1970s, and the sponsor of the Catch 24 Conference at FSTC in 1976 addressing the air-to-air combat potential of the Russian Mi-24 / HIND helicopter. This conference was well attended by US Air Force and US Marine aviators, both rotary & fixed wing. This conference eventually culminated in the J Catch Trials in 1978 of the Mi-24 / HIND air combat potential against both rotary & fixed wing US aircraft - with & without complimentary ground based air defense support. The numero uno lesson learned in Tactical Air Combat Maneuvering [ TACM ] in a helicopter is to aggressively pull collective first, then apply aft cyclic to avoid mushing. Then, add a right or left turn to climb out. Cheerz, bb
Just when I thought I had a good understanding, from your previous videos, you add another one to remind me I still have more to learn. Thank you for these videos.
You know what I enjoy most about your delivery? You don't assume the viewer knows more than basics. In other words, understanding what you're getting across is easy because of how you lay out the information.
An interesting story Jacob... 35 years ago when I was young and dumb (now I'm just dumb), I was goofing off in my Aeronca L-16A when landing one day. I was at or over gross weight as I had a large man in the back seat and at the time, I was over 250lbs... and I was making a very steep approach and pulled hard at about 50' above the runway at about 90mph. I definitely felt the wing, "let go" and all lift was lost and the plane was mushing toward the ground. Thank goodness for the big wing of the champ and when I let off the pressure on the stick, lift was regained about 5' from mushing into the runway, which based on the descent rate would have probably broken the airplane and our backs! Never did that again, but am just telling this story as it is not only fighters that can experience this effect. I guess some would call this a high speed stall, but I like the explanation of mushing and it certainly felt like that. Love your videos. Thanks for all your expertise and time.
Definitely been finding your videos useful with converting from PPL fixed wing to helicopter. Felt instantly at home in a helicopter which never fully felt in the fixed wing. Thanks for making the videos.
I always thought mushing was when you were trying to recover from a dive and needed help from a team of Siberian Huskies to pull you through. 🤣🤣 Thanks for the awesome content.
Interesting topic and instruction. I was a Utility guy and I think this phenomenon should be taught to the Army UH population more often. An interesting rule of thumb is at high gross weight, 90 kts IAS, 60 degree bank angle, the aircraft doubles in weight and will loose altitude. It’s fatal at low altitudes.
Hey Jacob, it’s been a while. I just wanted to drop in and say THANKS. Your videos helped me immensely with passing the SIFT. Fast forward to now, I’m at Rucker in common core hold. I will continue using your videos to learn and refresh. You are doing great things for aviators and future aviators!
Is this not really simply a specific case of settling with power, wherein momentum is exceeding lift? To be distinct from vortex ring state by not being characterized by disrupted airflow (for a period of time within the correction, anyway), though it threatens to rapidly become so.
I'm sure you are familiar with the g loading chart in the -10. Do you know if the g loading chart is to prevent structure damage to the airframe or to prevent pilots from getting into mushing? (Positive G only) What happens if you exceed the positive g limits from the g loading chart?
G loading doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll get into G loading limits. It’s a separate aerodynamic situation. G loading can damage the aircraft specifically in the rotor system. That’s usually the limiting factor. 2G’s essentially means the aircraft doubles in weight. That’s a lot for a rotor system to handle. Great question.
The difference between Settling with Power and Mushing is airspeed. SWP is less than ETL where a second set of vortices can form. Mushing occurs at airspeeds far faster than ETL where there’s no way a second set of vortices can develop. Mushing is a positive stall condition whereas SWP refers to root vortices combined with wing tip vortices. Great question!
The Mi-24 suffers bad from this becuase of its speed, weight, and it’s wing behind the rotor that stalls at similar AOA as when the rotor stalls. The manual mentions giving not only forward cyclic but decreasing collective 1-3 degrees. It’s simulation in DCS seems to agree with this. Couldn’t reducing collective to un stall blades also be part of recovery for other helicopters?
I'm of the class of heli-simmers that pine for more realism in the simming experience INCLUDING the warts of flight. Because we like the idea that we could be pilots and are experiencing the same sorts of constraints but your videos show me there are an enormous number of little constraints that are not at all or adequately modeled in the sim. This makes us bad sim pilots because we are overly confident based on ignorance of real world limitations that the simulator blithely ignores. I have little idea what kind of maneuvers I can or cannot get away with because the sim doesn't give much attention to those limitations.
So, forward cyclic to recover. Ok, so you are sacraficing altitude for airspeed, to get aircraft back in trim. This mushing thing is also causing a high "G" condition where pulling more aft cyclic can cause mast bumping. Not good! Instead of "diving" why not do down collective while going forward to get a shallow angle of descent, mind you, you are descending at 2000ft per minute +/-, while still keeping the aircraft level and in trim. While still hauling ass descending, a bit of forward cyclic n up collective should get your ass up rather quickly with ETL, Effective Translational Lift... This mushrooming thing is not a good manuver, IMO...
From a former Mi-24 / HIND scientific & technical intelligence analyst for the US Army Foreign Science & Technology Center [ FSTC ], now the National Ground Intelligence Center [ NGIC ] in Charlottesville, VA. I was the principal technical analyst on the Mi-24 / HIND during the 1970s, and the sponsor of the Catch 24 Conference at FSTC in 1976 addressing the air-to-air combat potential of the Russian Mi-24 / HIND helicopter. This conference was well attended by US Air Force and US Marine aviators, both rotary & fixed wing.
This conference eventually culminated in the J Catch Trials in 1978 of the Mi-24 / HIND air combat potential against both rotary & fixed wing US aircraft - with & without complimentary ground based air defense support. The numero uno lesson learned in Tactical Air Combat Maneuvering [ TACM ] in a helicopter is to aggressively pull collective first, then apply aft cyclic to avoid mushing. Then, add a right or left turn to climb out.
Cheerz,
bb
Just when I thought I had a good understanding, from your previous videos, you add another one to remind me I still have more to learn. Thank you for these videos.
Glad you enjoy them. I’ve got plenty more in the works.
@@helicopterlessonsin10minut10 Air National Guard, NY currently exercising special night flying techniques/equipment, Adirondacks, NY
You know what I enjoy most about your delivery? You don't assume the viewer knows more than basics. In other words, understanding what you're getting across is easy because of how you lay out the information.
That’s the goal. Breaking it down so just about anyone, even non pilots, can understand. I appreciate the feedback!
@@helicopterlessonsin10minut10 you're welcome
An interesting story Jacob... 35 years ago when I was young and dumb (now I'm just dumb), I was goofing off in my Aeronca L-16A when landing one day. I was at or over gross weight as I had a large man in the back seat and at the time, I was over 250lbs... and I was making a very steep approach and pulled hard at about 50' above the runway at about 90mph. I definitely felt the wing, "let go" and all lift was lost and the plane was mushing toward the ground. Thank goodness for the big wing of the champ and when I let off the pressure on the stick, lift was regained about 5' from mushing into the runway, which based on the descent rate would have probably broken the airplane and our backs! Never did that again, but am just telling this story as it is not only fighters that can experience this effect. I guess some would call this a high speed stall, but I like the explanation of mushing and it certainly felt like that. Love your videos. Thanks for all your expertise and time.
Glad you’re back
Just passed the SIFT on Monday with a 58. As a prior medic its been tough learning all of this from scratch but your videos help a lot!
Awesome! Be sure to leave some feedback on one of the SIFT prep videos and share what you did well on as well as what was the most challenging parts.
studying for the SIFT now, currently enlisted with no aviation knowledge. I'd love to ask you some questions!
@@jordanking5273 I'll try to answer them to the best of my knowledge
Definitely been finding your videos useful with converting from PPL fixed wing to helicopter. Felt instantly at home in a helicopter which never fully felt in the fixed wing. Thanks for making the videos.
Doing the same thing rn and couldn’t agree more.
I always thought mushing was when you were trying to recover from a dive and needed help from a team of Siberian Huskies to pull you through. 🤣🤣
Thanks for the awesome content.
It's like a really fast and aggressive settling with power situation. Great video, great explanation.
Awesome to see you back! I missed your videos!
Interesting topic and instruction. I was a Utility guy and I think this phenomenon should be taught to the Army UH population more often. An interesting rule of thumb is at high gross weight, 90 kts IAS, 60 degree bank angle, the aircraft doubles in weight and will loose altitude. It’s fatal at low altitudes.
Hey Jacob, it’s been a while. I just wanted to drop in and say THANKS. Your videos helped me immensely with passing the SIFT. Fast forward to now, I’m at Rucker in common core hold. I will continue using your videos to learn and refresh. You are doing great things for aviators and future aviators!
Is this not really simply a specific case of settling with power, wherein momentum is exceeding lift?
To be distinct from vortex ring state by not being characterized by disrupted airflow (for a period of time within the correction, anyway), though it threatens to rapidly become so.
I'm sure you are familiar with the g loading chart in the -10. Do you know if the g loading chart is to prevent structure damage to the airframe or to prevent pilots from getting into mushing? (Positive G only) What happens if you exceed the positive g limits from the g loading chart?
G loading doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll get into G loading limits. It’s a separate aerodynamic situation. G loading can damage the aircraft specifically in the rotor system. That’s usually the limiting factor. 2G’s essentially means the aircraft doubles in weight. That’s a lot for a rotor system to handle. Great question.
Awesome job
Excellent posting, thanks for share it.
You are back, thanks
Hey sir, great explanation! So what’s the difference between mushing and autorotation
Thanks for posting. Welcome back sir!
Good to be back. I appreciate you checking in over the years David.
@@helicopterlessonsin10minut10 absolutely sir.
love your work. thank you.
He returns! Praise be
great video!
What is the different between the mushing and jackstall?
Welcome back! I just bought your book
Thanks!
Is mushing ever a problem during an autorotation deceleration ?
Think 💭 ahead! Key point in flight as well as many aspects in life!
Keep up the awesome work!
Hey, welcome back!
I've heard of SWP during a quick stop. Is this the same principle that the positive stall region is eating the wind because of the angle?
The difference between Settling with Power and Mushing is airspeed. SWP is less than ETL where a second set of vortices can form. Mushing occurs at airspeeds far faster than ETL where there’s no way a second set of vortices can develop. Mushing is a positive stall condition whereas SWP refers to root vortices combined with wing tip vortices. Great question!
@@helicopterlessonsin10minut10 thanks!
THANKS FOR THE VIDEO
The Mi-24 suffers bad from this becuase of its speed, weight, and it’s wing behind the rotor that stalls at similar AOA as when the rotor stalls. The manual mentions giving not only forward cyclic but decreasing collective 1-3 degrees.
It’s simulation in DCS seems to agree with this. Couldn’t reducing collective to un stall blades also be part of recovery for other helicopters?
J.W. you in any of these choppers in the intro's?
Yep. I’m in the lead aircraft here.
Can this also be caused by to Rapid of a quick stop in forward flight?
It could. Any drastic aft cyclic could cause this. It’s just most prevalent in dive recoveries.
how different settling with power?
Awesome. Thanks!
Another informative video thanks PS got watch those tan lines : )
Not from a watch but from a memorial bracelet for a friend lost in combat. Glad you enjoyed the video!
Thanks!
Gain authority slowly... slowly.. yessir
I'm of the class of heli-simmers that pine for more realism in the simming experience INCLUDING the warts of flight. Because we like the idea that we could be pilots and are experiencing the same sorts of constraints but your videos show me there are an enormous number of little constraints that are not at all or adequately modeled in the sim. This makes us bad sim pilots because we are overly confident based on ignorance of real world limitations that the simulator blithely ignores. I have little idea what kind of maneuvers I can or cannot get away with because the sim doesn't give much attention to those limitations.
The madlad!
I’m old. I had to look that up haha! Thanks
@@helicopterlessonsin10minut10 Anytime. Im glad I could teach you something too. Not as cool as these helicopter videos though, thanks!
You came back just when I finished watching all your old videos. Perfect timing!
Much Obliged Sir,, 👌👌
👊
😎🤜
Easy now
How to loft a small car nearly of700-800 grams
I’m sorry but I don’t understand your question.
I mean that for a project I need to lift a toy car how can I lift it or fly it
I would determine the weight and see how much power available you have for a helicopter to lift it. Check out the max gross weight hover charts.
@@helicopterlessonsin10minut10
Make understand in simple words
@@helicopterlessonsin10minut10 I want to make through motor
So, forward cyclic to recover. Ok, so you are sacraficing altitude for airspeed, to get aircraft back in trim. This mushing thing is also causing a high "G" condition where pulling more aft cyclic can cause mast bumping. Not good! Instead of "diving" why not do down collective while going forward to get a shallow angle of descent, mind you, you are descending at 2000ft per minute +/-, while still keeping the aircraft level and in trim. While still hauling ass descending, a bit of forward cyclic n up collective should get your ass up rather quickly with ETL, Effective Translational Lift... This mushrooming thing is not a good manuver, IMO...
Avoidance, stay on ground.