@@ifor20got I LOVE my Sprint ST 1050...been riding it for 10 years after upgrading from a VFR. Finally got a BMW R1200RT because my wife wasn't comfortable on the back of the Triumph...but can't bring myself to part with the Sprint.
I priced them both yesterday. They're not that far apart in price. If you buy a foreign bike, you're paying a shitload of taxes and importation fees. All that is passed on to the buyer, not the co. that sells it.
@@theonesickman More right than not. But I still like the bikes. My beef is that motorcycles are becoming like cars. Way to computerized which is totally unnecessary and very expensive. With today's materials and build quality, almost every bike is a good bike. People buy different makes & models because they like them. Prices on all makes are way up in price and pretty even with each other. To say one is better than the other is a personal view. It all depends on what you want.
@@LowDoughTech GTwin Cam . Had some serious flaws. Mine seems fine at 80,000 miles though. I did a gear drive on it though. M8 liquid cooled 4 valve head and back to a single cam. They seem good to go. And they run strong. again not your grandpops old big heavy slow hog
ANYONE who tries to condescend Boomers are ignorant. Boomers made the best rock and roll ever. Boomers made the entire computer industry. Boomers are the best generation America ever had. I am from Gen X. Millennials and Gen Zers have given absolutely nothing to this planet. Anyway... Harleys have a lot of unhappy haters it seems. Must be something of substance there. Take the Sportster. A model that has sold for over 60 years. First Sportster was 1957. First small block Chevy was 1955. Harley started the motorcycle industry in Japan when they helped start the Rikuo company using Harley machinery and tooling. SUCK IT YOU FROTHY MOUTHED PROGRAMMED ROBOTS. Lastly, Triumph DID NOT EXIST from 1983 through 1992. There was ZERO MOTORCYCLE PRODUCTION for those ten years. Harley has a WAY BETTER track record than Triumph ever could at this point.
Shopped hard for my first new motorcycle two summers ago, and the 2018 Triumph Bobber Black was the hands down winner. Blows away anything in the Sportster line, and costs thousands less than the cheapest softtail. With traction control, cruise control, and ABS standard. And it’s a blast to ride. 23 months and 15,000 miles later, still puts a smile on my face.
@@mjh5437 They sure do and I almost bought one but I ended up getting the V9 Bobber from Moto Guzzi. I sat on one at the NY show and it felt great. Then I saw a picture of it with me on it.....For my frame 6.02" tall the bobber looked tiny.
.Harley is rotting from the inside out it’s sad they’ve catered to a customer base that was aging and raging against anything new, with dealers being the gatekeepers as well..last time I was in a dealer the salesman literally told me you don’t want that Sportster it’s too underpowered, you want this Soft tail with the upgraded Milwaukee 8 and that costs 11k more than you want to spend. When I replied that I didn’t want a car payment for a toy, the salesman said then I guess you don’t want a Harley and walked away saying nothing more. Later that day I was in the Indian Dealer looking at a Scout.
I was having a bad day one day and decided to treat myself to my first ever visit to a HD dealer. I told them up front that I wasn't there to buy anything and I was just looking because I'd had a bad morning and wanted to look at pretty toys I can't afford. Salesman says okay, and not 2 sentences later, he drags me from the Roadster I was curious about to a $27k bike. Annoyed, I tried to walk back over there, but he literally stood in my way. Proceeded to talk about power and yadda yadda yadda. When I brought up that if I were in the market for a bike with a lot of power, I'd go with a VFR1200F (an ugly bike, but one I really want). Queue the excuses. It's not about the power, it's the sound! Yeah but it's not a Harley! Do you want to look like a clown in your riding gear? ...Okay, we're done here.
Arrogant, stupid Harley salesman. No wonder they're going under soon. When all the (wealthy) baby-boomers are done buying their bikes, it will be game over, lol.
@@Idividezero I share the sentiment. That strategy only works with the "more money than brains" people. Anyone with half a common sense will do the math and decide an HD just isn't worth the money they are asking. It is an expensive ticket to a club I don't want to belong.
They did encourage the worst kind of exclusivity culture in their dealerships, especially in their sales-people! When I went back to the dealer that I bought my bike from looking for an older, used model (I wanted something specific. I knew what, and I knew why.), the salesman talked himself right out of a sale! I was prepared to buy, they had something that fit the bill, and the salesman turned me off to the point that I walked away. When your corporate culture is OK with your sales team turning down easy money because the “mark” appreciates the product but is immune to the kool-aid, the writing is on the wall already at that point. Your company is a walking corpse whose obituary has not yet been published.
Wish they told me that. I traded in my sportster for a m8 softail after 6 months of owning it. Couldn’t be happier with the bike.. but I definitely could be happier with the car payment 🤣
I went to a Harley dealer after work, dressed in shirt and tie. I literally stood for 15 minutes trying to get help, while 2 smug salesmen looked at me from their desks with amusement. The bikes were packed in so tight I couldn’t sit on anything without worry of being asked to “get off” When I asked for help I was given full retail prices on 2 bikes I stood at. There was no offer to move one out to sit on, and both guys never moved from behind their desks. I had $45,000 to spend! I drove to an Indian dealer and within 15 mins was put on a bike, told to take my time, no pressure to buy and I bought that day!! Never, even if Harley were the last bike on the planet would I ever go near a HD dealership.
Every dealership is a different company. I ride a HD and I like it. My dealer takes care of me and they didn't sell me the bike. I went into an Indian dealer and they tried to sell me a Yamaha. So there you go.
Some of the best salesmen for Indian, Triumph, etc. . . work at Harley. Funny how they sell more of their competition's bikes with that attitude than they know.
I rode HD exclusively for almost 20 years...7 different ones from 2000 to 2018. What you say here are all the reasons I now ride a Kawasaki Ninja 1000SX. More handling, power, technology, features for half the price of a Road King. I also got tired of the 'Harley tax' and the manufactured tough guy bs. Quick story...I remember when a few short years ago a basic black Road King was 18,999cdn. Last time I set foot in my local HD dealership it was $24,500. I asked the salesman, not really expecting an insightful answer, what had happened that suddenly the same bike is more than 25% more in 2 years. His answer..."well, it has ABS now'. I almost laughed in his face. A $5000 Ninja 400 has ABS.
Well what did you expect from company with yesterday tech at tomorrow prices tagline lol. Just wait a year or two it will be 30k because they added rudimentary traction control 😂
Yeah. I helped a friend install some parts he bought to customise his 883 and I was amazed at the lack of technology and jacked up price on them. When he told me he spent his hard earned $300 I said to him: "when you get over this phase, you'll start to enjoy real bikes". It's like a cult. They can't get out.
@@Tobeon2 I think the point he was trying to make is that you can buy an entire motorcycle equipped with ABS for the amount they marked up for ABS on an already overpriced bike.
I was sitting in a marketing meeting at the local H-D dealer I worked for. I was taking a beating because our door traffic was in decline. I got mad and said "Look! My job is to generate excitement. The innovations for 2018 from Harley-Davidson consist of s new Triglide rear axle, 2017 models in different colors and a radio upgrade that make the radio usable!" They told me that I was not with the program.
@@aob.aob83 The client has changed. If you are over 65 you are not Harley's market. The old guard has bought their last Tri Glide. It was a good run but it's going to take more than flag waving and screaming eagles to interest the younger generation in the Harley Brand. Harley-Davidson has weather storms like this in the past by being financially smart. Smart business may not appease the masses.
@A SJ southpark would be more significant than Harley these days. I think the cartoon hit the nail right on the head. Harley riders ride for the image not the bike. Doesn't sound like a real biker to me..
Just bought a 2019 Triumph Scrambler 1200 XE. (my first Triumph) 1) Most fun bike I've ever owned. 2) Best dealer experience I've had. 10/10 will get another Triumph because of this experience.
Passed my big boy license last year. Planned to test drive everything - Kawasaki, Ducati, Yamaha, Honda, even an Indian. Second bike i test rode - Street Scrambler. I'd ridden about 100 yards and it felt like my bike. I had the biggest grin. Cancelled all the other test rides booked and bought it the following week - matt green paint job. As soon as COVID-19 lockdown finishes i'm test riding the 1200 XE. #triumphforlife
I am stuck on a chinese 125 being overtaken by bin lorries. passed theory then lockdown... still im off now for a 2 hour ride to the mull of galloway it's still glorious!
“Harley-Davidson- The most efficient way to convert gasoline into noise yet discovered by man!” Full disclosure: I own and ride a Harley-Davidson. And I enjoy it. And you are 100% correct, sir! Even as I bought it, I felt the motorcycle was priced at a premium (to put it mildly), but I happily bought it, anyway. Thank you for your work! Edit: Some detail will help provide context. I purchased the motorcycle I refer to in this post new in June of 2010. It is a 2009 FLSTSB, the Softail Cross Bones. I happily paid the premium, because it is the last non-CVO springer they made, and in my opinion, one of the best looking bikes they ever offered. And it has provided me with many years and many thousands of smiles, and that’s what matters. I am not a brand snob. I will show respect to anyone out there on two wheels. As long as they are enjoying themselves and riding what they want, that’s enough to make me happy for them. Thanks again!
There is no shame in paying a premium to buy something truly special. I bought a Ducati once. The problem with HD today is what you get for the money. When you compare the equipment and performance (not just speed but handling, braking, and reliability) of today's Harleys to any other manufacturer the looks alone can't justify the price. The best part, I guess, is that many HD riders do actually ride. There are too many 'garage queens' in every brand. But when I get away from the city, out into the twisty fun roads the percentage of Harleys drops quickly. It wouldn't be that hard for the Motor company to up their riding dynamics game. They simply don't care.
Bill Kerr: Sharp sir, said the sixty year old and three time HD owner. 🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓 Ahhh, just typing and reading. He slates Harley for binning the sportster 1200 flat track lookalike (I cant even remember the model designation and I’ve just watched it - I truly am 60). But just remember Ducati caught a cold with the similar era Sport Classic which bombed, but is now a sought after model.
The thing about the noise is that new Harleys are actually quiet. You have to spend a few more grand to get the Screaming Eagle or Vance & Swines pipes to make more noise and degrade the performance. I've got nothing against the bikes, but I'd rather own three nice Hondas than one basic Harley.
Bob James You aren’t kidding! To quote the late, great George Carlin, “I don’t think I need to tell you that it goes without saying that there are some things better left unsaid. The less said about it, the better.”
Man, I've been a Harley Tech for 3 years, import bike Tech for 10+ years, and I agree with your views on Harley as a company. In comparison on build quality, Harley's are top notch. The materials used are tried and true. But heavy, and often bulky. The ingenuity of the Japanese manufacturers are fantastic. The weight reduction and gearing make for a less is more situation when talking about bike performance. And then the Western European bikes are just great. Triumph I find to be a great manufacturer. The newer Bonneville looks very retro, but hands on, it's just looks. All new tech is hidden behind those beautifully crafted accent pieces. And they ride very well. Harley has special place in my heart, but I'm always going to go with a great adventure bike, and in the end, it all comes down to how the rider likes the feel of the bike and if they can afford it.
*Yes. But most Harley models retain a high resale value. While "Japanese manufacturers" (because we're comparing one company to many) don't hold up in value unless it's a low volume model or unicorn.* And while we're on European models, they don't produce spare parts after a decade of a model years release. Every brand has it's faults - irregardless of nationality.
We had a Harley / Triumph dealership in NJ. Actually it was a Harley first then they took on Triumph when they first came back to the states . Mechanics at the place would undermine the triumph brand by telling perspective buyers they were sent to Triumph technical school and they saw engineering junk being made that couldn't be serviced.
Same here... Love my bobber. Fast, looks great, and not an HD. I get nothing but thumbs up on the roads and mobbed in gas stations by people asking about it. I just couldn't bring myself tk pay 3k more for a Sportster with 60% of the hp, no ABS, and no Harley Dealership games.
Bang on. Former HD owner and have watched with dismay as the brand went from a motorcycle company to a fashion company. Their palatial dealerships are a joke, I can't stand to enter one these days. Uninformed sales staff turn over all the time. With the new bikes (Streetfighter, etc.) I believe a huge obstacle for sales will be these dealerships, as they operate as a "welcome to the club" approach rather than a motorcycle shop. They should have evolved Buell and used that network for the new bikes.
You're right Harley should have diversified their model line up years ago AND straightened out their dealers. The failure and treatment like red-headed step children of the Buells, V-rod and now the Street can mostly be laid right at the feet of the dealers. Those bikes are/were semi-hidden in the back of most show rooms and anyone inquiring about one was mostly told "You need to get a real bike". Then there is the douche-baggery of the whole Harley culture, it has alienated many in the motorcycling community, so much so that many have a small emotional investment in seeing Harley fail.
@chris younts What your failing to grasp is that the cruiser market is dwindling and Harley's past but resent history of expanding into other segments has been a dismal failure. Take the Buell a sports bike, they were treated like red-headed step children by the dealers and ultimately failed. Had the dealers made an effort to grow into this market Harley would now be established in the sport bike segment and SELLING sport bikes. But they couldn't be bothered to make that effort. The only way Harley is going to grow and maybe even survive is to expand into all categories of motorcycles just like Triumph.
I wanted to like the V-Rod. Great engine, crap bike. Ugly as a bag of smashed assholes. Sat on one, thought I was going to fall over backwards just sitting still. Didn't know if it was a cruiser or a performance bike. Turned out to be neither.
Every hipster in the world for 10 years straight: " We will pay $20k for a retro cafe racer." Harley Davidson "Naah we're good with the same customer demographic as Cadillac"
Not making Buell more of a part and not bringing an updated XLCR back is what is killing Harley. Remember the Sportster Sport , with awesome brakes and adjustable suspension ? Bet you dont , they killed it before it could of had a chance. Even the XR 1200 never was allowed to grow into something that could have saved Harley. But we will keep making 30 k Ultra Glides that no one wants .
@@notyourmom850 just imagine if HD made a solid effort on a competitive sport bike. Their sales would explode! And I mean one that isn't low tier, in talking top mid to top tier.
I was saying this day would come back in the early 90's. I sold my seventh and last Harley in 94. Love my Honda Aero 1100 with over 180,000 miles and never been apart.
4 года назад
A buddy of mine is very proud of his Harley having just passed 100k miles.........and it’s second engine rebuild. I sold my last Triumph at 65k miles. It’s clutch cable broke once.....that’s it
I hadn't seen one (or at least noticed the model) til you said this. I googled it... ye, that thing is sexy as hell, coming from a sport-bike honda-cbr look fanatic. If I were to get that style of bike, I'd hunt for one of those.
I'll continue to ride/own a Harley for as long as I can. I like the style. I like the old technology, kind of like a trusty lawnmower you've had for years, that you can fix yourself (My bike is 20 years old by the way). Sadly I do think they will fade away or be absorbed into something else. At this time in the global economy, Harley is out on a pretty shaky limb. They can only sell that bad boy image so long before it becomes a joke. Even warming up to that old school nostalgia can only take them so far. I'll still wander into my local dealership a few times a year and wonder how long it will be before I will be forced onto 3 wheels, and maybe buy a shirt.
@@Fourandaquarter I sold my Harley because it was way too expensive and its performance was garbage. I do really miss annoying the shit out of everyone within a 100 yards though, so I bought a megaphone and I use it whenever I'm in public. It makes me feel strong and cool with a really loud voice. It's also safer, because I never sneak up on anyone and they can hear me coming.
Wow! It's like you can read my thoughts. Triumph can make the competitive Street Triple and Speed Triple. So when they make a retro bike they are not shy about modern technology and performance. They even spent years NOT making the Bonneville so that they wouldn't get stuck as a nostalgia brand.
" if you're a budget minded young rider ' you don't need a new bike - plenty of great deals from owners who decided they're not into biking or have a financial worry - think about it : )
In machine design class in the 70s our lecturer held the view that if anything broke on a Harley, they would not redesign it, they just made it twice as big.
I was looking at the Breakout. Nearly 20 grand of my British pounds. Then I saw the Triumph Bobber. Half the price and all the custom parts availability. Have I spent a shedload of money on my Bobber? Yes. Has it cost as much as a new Breakout? Nowhere near. As it stands I'm seven grand up and I have my perfect bike.
I was looking at the harley 48, I test ride it 3 different times. It had the finesse and ride of a garbage truck. Then I rode triumph bobber and less then two blocks I know it was going to be mine. A few weeks later It was in my garage . I am so lucky that got the bobber and not the harley, it would have been the biggest mistake in my riding life.
Yup. I had a 1999 Sportster 1200 Custom, wanted to trade up to a 2001 Softail with the TC, and first year of FI, and the dealer absolutely tried to rip me off on the trade, so I drove it 90mi to sell it to another dealer. Then when I went to buy, they forced me to get $1500 in accessories. This was during the 2000s Harley boom. Never again. After I had that 2001 for a bit, sold it and moved on, never even looked at HD ever again.
Just drop the price of the bikes and accessories, Stop being more interested in massive profits ( Which for some reason ) denotes success.??. Put more bikes on the road at a reasonable price and everyone is happy. Plus your customers will come back. Just look at triumph from extinct to top worldwide success in a few short years. It's an English Heritage Like Norton as H/D is an American Heritage. Stop going for ridiculous Profit margins. Give the people what they want at a price they can afford and they will come back.
Well said sir. I am a former HD owner and agree with what you said completely. They seem to be more inclined to push T-shirts and accessories than wanting to sell bikes the consumer actually wants to buy. I hate to see the company in getting close to being in dire straits but looking at the dealerships and the bikes they sell, it appears to be problems of their own making. There seems to be a trend of all brands to only have large dealerships. I miss the days of the smaller dealers whom you knew personally.
I know what you mean. The local Honda dealership I go to is really small (showroom has space for a dozen bikes and a few ATV's), but that's part of the charm. I've been seeing the same folks there for years, and know them by name. Their parts manager and head mechanic both recognize me, know what I ride, and enjoy shooting the breeze for a few minutes between work. They're good people who just enjoy their jobs and the machines they service. Too bad that sounds like the exception, rather than the norm.
Spot on assessment. I actually own a 21 year old Ultra Classic that I recently bought for 5k from a private seller. My fourth Harley in 15 years and easily my favorite because I'm not giving a single red cent to HD Corp as I now have enough experience working on them to fix them myself. I am the curmudgeon.
I bought through the internet some beautiful leather hand made saddle bags from a leather artist a few years back for my Bonneville Steve McQueen special. I asked her how biking was going in N California. She said guys we’re forgoing Harleys because of mechanical breakdowns and price increases for back to basics Triumphs. ‘Nough said.
The fact that H-D have lasted as long as they have, while steadfastly refusing to innovate, update, or, change, AND, continuing to wildly overcharge, is, frankly, shocking.
The biggest problem to me are their bikes are butt ass ugly. Proud T100 and now T120 owner and wow does it go and look good without any of the ridiculous noise. My Triumph sounds like it doesn't need to try and rides like it too
Owned a HD Fat Boy from 2002-2010. Put 90,000 miles on it in that period. I must say it was as reliable as an anvil, it always started & ran well. The brakes however, were barely adequate, the cornering clearance marginal, & the ride quality from the softail rear suspension was quite rough on less than perfect pavement. I loved the bike, & rode it all over the U.S. After I sold it I bought a 2011 Triumph Thunderbird. It rode, stopped & turned better than my Fat Boy ever did. In essence, it is a better Harley than my Harley was, or at least a better functioning motorbike. I still have the Thunderbird, & added a Bobber Black last fall. I still love Harleys, but I've had Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, Moto Guzzi, & Triumph, all were great bikes. Harley will need to learn how to actually compete, they're not the only game in town.
G K L - if you loved the bike (even with the faults) and did so many mikes on it, I’m curious to know why you bought another make? I guess Harley should want to know the answer as well, but they won’t.
@@bryanduncan1640 I feel the Motor Company has a deep trust that their customers won't buy anything but a Harley Davidson. I do know several riders that feel this way. I'm just not brand loyal. The Fat Boy did have a mechanical presence that the Thunderbird does not. I traded some character for better ride dynamics.
What's your experience with Moto Guzzi? Was it reliable? I'm in the market for one but it's a bit hard to find people who owned them who could tell me their experience with the brand.
@@xocoyotl4 The two I owned were the older 2 valve California models. The first was a 2000 California Jackal, the 2nd was a 2008 California Vintage. They were both pretty reliable, oddly enough the Jackal was more so of the two, despite being the entry level California. I had to have steering head bearings put in the Vintage, the Jackal had no problems whatever. The head bearing thing I just chocked up to a bad day at the Guzzi factory. I've had no experience with the newer 1400cc models, but those that I had were solid bikes.
If their bikes were better than Triumph (and that's a big "if") as well as more affordable, I still would own a Triumph just because of the attitude of the riders.
I do like Harleys though. I ride up behind a guy on one and kind of challenge him a little and watch him start riding hard. Except all that happens is more noise, so I turn the happy handle on my Rocket and leave. :)
Considering the time it would take to R&D in addition to passing through legal hoops, HD is already way too close to circling the drain to let out the product line they need, much less attract the market that would keep them alive. COVID-19 has been a huge hit to HD (and everyone, obviously) which I will be surprised to see them survive without a seriously positive reception of the streetfighter and adventure bike they were planning on coming out with. Livewire has been a failure so those are the only things they have going for them to boost profit I am not at all anti-HD, I actually want to see the Streetfighter be wildly successful because I'm strongly considering getting one after they're released and have been on the market for long enough to see any long term issues pop up. They need to keep the price down though, that's going to be the major issue here
Bobbie Burns I bought my Harley Low Rider S instead of a Speed Triple RS. I can’t say I regret it because they’re two different bikes and I’d never part with this Harley but in no way does it satiate my need for a Speed Triple RS. I will certainly own both in the next 2 years.
I've got a 2006 Bonneville and love it, put cocktail slipons on and it crackles like a Spitfire. Straight aircooled twin, consistent cylinder temps, easy to service and tune.
My Triumph is the most fun I’ve had on two wheels. The triple provides a character-rich motor, plenty of torque and the sound is pretty awesome. My next bike is a Ducati or a MotoGuzzi though. I’m going through every brand as I can.
Let me save you some time, stick with the Triumph brand. They offer a little taste of everything while being damn good at it. Having ridden just about everything, BMW and Triumph offer one hell of a riding experience for your money.
I love the Guzzi brand. I have owned 7 of them and loved them all, with the California 1400 being the best, great motor, comfortable, long legs like pretty much all their models. They have been around since 1921 and hold the record for being continuously in business behind Harley. It’s nice being unique out on the road too. I have owned 2 Ducati’s. Wonderful bike, but there is a lot of sameness about them. You should definitely experience them.
Moto guzzi has more heritage than Harley now and at a better price. Not super cheap but not horrible expensive neither. Much nicer machines for the price.
There was a 5 year period, where I bought nothing but new triumph triples. The street and speed triple are pretty much perfection in terms of a naked bike.
Brilliant commentary that describes EXACTLY why I traded my Harley Nightrain for a Triumph T100 seven years ago and NEVER looked back. A reintroduction to why I started riding 40 years ago. Safe travels!
I remember a buddy coming to my house and he had just bought a brand new "Night train". This would be around 2004.He told me what he paid for it and I looked at him and said,"You paid what I paid for this house!"I thought he got totally ripped off.Price was about three times more then the competition,and what really kills me is that its probably worth about 1/3 of what he paid for.
If u want a maxiscooter: Honda, crossbike or quadro: Yamaha, sportbike: Ducati or Kawasaki, enduro: BMW or KTM, cafe racer or chopper: Triumph, Indian or Yamaha. If u need a bike in general - go to Honda dealership.
I’ve long said Harley needs to follow triumph example they have old school bikes for triumph loyalists but they Also have cool new bikes for the next generation Harley should still cater to its loyal following but they also need to move ahead
There is really so much choice in the motor cycle market, and for all types of riders that I wonder why loyalty to the brand or the delusions people have about Harleys being great bikes, let alone the pattern for all the future baffels me. Let them go, and it will be good for mens characters if they can stop pretending to be meatheads.
The same problem exists in Germany, snobbish dealers, with the bikes extremely high prices, non-competitive technology and heavy as lead. The last time I was interested in Harley, the company was preparing the 100th anniversary celebration. To test ride a Harley in Germany you have to prove that you have experience with big machines. This meant that you had to hide your Honda and lie. I don't know if this is still the case, but I won't test it either. But there are other reasons for not buying a Harley : the average buyer is over 50, has studied or is simply wealthy. Mostly the Harley is the first bike, because you already have all the other toys. This clientele likes to keep to themselves, only wears company clothes and is much too old for tent and sleeping bag, so it must be a hotel. So these people are always among themselves at biker meetings. When they mingle with the ordinary people, they expect to be approached about the bike, accessories and Ray Ban sunglasses. Friends who used to ride Harley have changed the brand because they were equated with these people. In addition, they felt treated as second-class customers as soon as a member of a Colour Club showed up. Previously arranged appointments were postponed because the bad boy had priority. If Harley doesn't work on its image as a clothing store with attached motorcycle production, it has only bleak prospects in the long run. From the perspective of a German or European, I will also mention another reason: since Trump and his "America first" jabbering it is very uncool to buy American goods. If you do it anyway, you are considered a Trump fan. It's just the way it is. Maybe it will change again when this guy is no longer in the White House, but will Harley still be around for that? btw, my bike is an iconic Moto Guzzi, built in Mandello del Lario by proud Italians. So I don't need to change ;-)
Wow. I am not insulting you directly, but it is sad to see people get so salty about "America First". If Germany said "Germany First!" I would respect that, and then I would still buy a Volkswagen. Now if you're mad because of Trump tweets... I totally get it, and it would make sense because that's the effect he's going for.
its not just americas first. Its the way he blame all the other countrys for his faults, like he did in Coronacrisis, and also that America has lost its shine. In my Opinion the Healtcare, the Insurence System, also the Social-System itself is worst than it is in lots of Third-World Countrys
This isn't the first time that Harley Davidson has faced troubles with sales. Times change, trends come and go, yet HD has always managed to pull through. Like every other corporation, it takes good leadership. Hopefully, the Mother Company will withstand this latest downfall.
Is not worth it. I have plenty income but was born poor. As such when I pay for something I really look at the intrinsic value of what I’m buying. I would only consider buying a Harley sportster. And with many brands offering bikes in the same category, bringing you way more for less price, I’m sorry but Harley are just not worth my money. Shame really.
What you need to do is look for a post-2004 Sportster in your local want ads. Low mileage bikes can be had dirt cheap and if you get the 1200 you can't go wrong.
@@spaceflight1019 Bought my 2011 HD Road King in 2014 for £11,000. The original buyer took a hell of a hit. Always buy 'nearly new' for the best deals. HD's though........just not worth the money.
Harley has effectively put out of business all Japanese cruisers and in the mid-west 90+percent of all motorcycles on the road are Harley. You all need to get your facts straight. There are ups and downs and even the auto industry is down.
Very good, concise video explaining this situation. I'm definitely in your "young Triumph owner" category. I knew I wanted a 600 sport bike once I got my first job out of college. A little less than a year later, I got a 2008 Daytona 675. I like that it offered something different than it's Japanese competitors. Three years later I picked up another Daytona, a 2010 SE. After another couple of years, I bought a dedicated track bike and decided to get something a little different for the street. I debated Monsters, Buells, vintage Japanese, but NEVER a Harley... In the end, I stayed brand loyal, picked up a 2016 Thruxton R for a 30th birthday present, and have zero regrets! All of that said, I do hope that Harley will make the new line of bikes they've teased over the last couple of years. I find them all very fascinating. These are the kind of Harleys that people my age would actually want to own. Why they just keep running back to the same tired models that no new customers want is far beyond me.
I bought my first Harley a 1942 45 flat head back in 1955 when I was 14. So, I am one of those old guys, almost 80, that remembers the past and am an old school guy. Much of the problems with building motorcycles now is government regulations. You can not build a simple motorcycle. It has to have water cooling and be controlled by a computer to keep emissions down. My son built his own bike, from the frame up and put in an S&S engine. He got what He wanted. My current motorcycle is a 99 Harley Softail Custom which I really like and will probably be my last. I rode an 84 Iron head Sportster for 23 years. I have had a few other brands in between, but still like Harleys, at least until they became computerized conglomerations that the average guy can not work on without a myriad of special tools. I have always done most of my own maintenance. I love simplicity. I loved the old Triumph scramblers. The new ones are to hi tech along with everything else. I do have a flip phone and a computer that I am typing on. So I have come a long ways baby. But, I am not buying another motorcycle without a carb. When the ignition module went south in my Sportster I installed a breaker plate and points and condenser and the coil and plugs. It ran just fine and I could fix it. But, us old school guys are a dying breed and I feel the pain of the bike manufacturers. Harley's success went to their heads, and it is going to come back to bite them. Good times do not last forever. People will only put up with their arrogance for so long. Times have changed and they are about to come down off the mountain in to the valley. People are no longer standing in line to pay extra to get the next bike that comes in. Those days are past and they are going to have to realize that pretty soon. I could not even give them any advice because I do not see a future for a company that will die with the people they served. Us old school guys that started with Harleys long ago. We had a choice. Harley, Indian, or Triumph.
i wont buy nothing later then '79! after that everything went wrong. and thats it. any 2 stroke or Z or Gs from that era is cool. after that its goiing to be a risk
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with us, appreciate it. My worry isn't so much HD dieing but motorcycling in general declining - but they're is plenty of hope for brands that go with the times and make bikes that are fun to ride and safe to use. Riding is amazing though and I applaud companies who make it interesting for younger riders!
Trouble is...you CAN build a simple motorcycle. In the UK and Europe, ABS is now required. Fuel injection too to pass emissions...but nothing else needs to be complex. these systems can also be cheap, simple and reliable. Ask the guys building the new Royal Enfields in India how they manage. But they do. They have tooled up, and produce a brand new motorcycle with no frills, fancy throttle modes, gear indicators or traction control. they also sell it at £5400 in the UK. A price which would get you a used Sportster or worn out old big twin. One that would get you paying '£13 every time you took it into London as it won't meet current legislation. Harley don't need to make everything complex....but they MUST bring their products up to spec or drop the prices. If I want a new Sportster...I expect twin discs and 4 pot calipers, I expect adjustable shocks, I would expect LED lights...and I would expect wiring tucked away rpoperlym quality chrome and components put in sensible places. Maybe go for broke and include adjustable span levers, air adjustable forks and USB sockets for the kids to charge their toys on. Buy any Japanese bike, and these things are expected...and fitted as standard. Harley can sell nostalgia.....but it needs to be backed up by a product that can stand up to scrutiny.
I literally rode past a Harley dealership today... on my '82 Yamaha xs650.... (a Triumph killer ) and at the light, overheard a couple Harley riders complaining about the outrageous price for a backrest pad. I felt sorry for them.
I explained the downfall of Harley Davidson to my fiancé in 10 seconds. Went to their website and found the cheapest bike then searched for the Honda Rebel 500 price. She audibly gasped at the outrageous price difference.
Yes, the Rebel has the best price/performance ratio among the cruisers. And also looks great. For a ten years old 883 I would have to pay 6 grand more with worse equipment and performance (in Europe). Um nope. Only because of the sound I do not pay almost double.
@@urbanstreet_4282 Gotta say, the Rebel will not win any beauty contests, the Harley is much better looking. The rebel will also run forever and will be more fun to ride than the chunky Harley.
I've been shopping for a first bike for some time now and my experience has been 100% in agreement with this video. I've ruled out Harley and am looking closely at a Triumph.
Let's be fair. Most of the reliability problems, dripping oil, and general shit quality issues were when the golf cart company owned HD from '69 through '81, when the Davidsons bought it back and turned it into a clothing company with a sideline in motorcycles. Just goes to show, fuck your customers over once and they never forget.
Great article! I too have never owned a HD but I am on my second TRIUMP a Tiger 1200 and love it, my first Triumph was the Trophy SE it got awesome mileage with the speed triple engine. ! Had a Moto Guzzi California cruiser in between just to try something different but ended up back with Triumph..... CHEERS!
Harley Davidson was always my dream when I was young....hearing and seeing what s happening to Harley makes me sad, but its happening, they are overpriced and outgunned everywhere in the world, and that's what they did not think about... Harley is not worth the money you spend...what is an extra in their already overpriced bikes, it is standard and included in the price on other brands....
While I agree, I found that Harley touring bikes have better build quality than their direct competitors which is only Kawasaki, Yamaha , and Indian. They are not that much more expensive either, and have a lot of aftermarket support. I owned a Vulcan of Voyager 1700 for 60,000 miles , and have test ridden both Indian and Yamaha touring bikes. I chose the Road Glide to replace my Voyager and am happy with the choice . Now, for those who aren't into V-twin touring bikes, there are bikes like the Goldwing and BMW to chose from.
@@Dave-sw2dm you have to consider from a European Customer's point of view of a Harley, we do not have the customer care and parts reliability as in the United States....the Japanese have their factories in Europe and parts are ridiculously available while Harley Parts are expensive here, and not the mention availability....In comparison I prefer the Harley and will always be a faithful lover of the brand, that's for sure, and whatever it takes I will one day buy one, but at the moment I have to enjoy the Honda which I have, until I ll buy another bike....which obviously the choice will be a Harley Davidson.
That was fantastic! Well written and to the point! And yes, I'm in the EXACT SAME BOAT!! I looked at HD but then went to look at a Triumph. And as much as , like you, I would love a Harley, Triumph has it in spades. The only thing Triumph needs to do is up their dealer presents a little more. Not a lot, but I'm in a city and still 150kms from a dealer. Love the Lightning III and will straddle one VERY soon i hope. BTW, I'm 65 and still at it!! Well done folks, loved the vid!!!
Most importantly, they should have done all that 20 years ago when they were on top of the world, like any visionary company, not while they are on their decline like now.
I've been riding Triumph for many years and can definitely say I'll never purchase a Harley. Overpriced, under powered, and cheesy "bad boy" image marketing is all Harley offers.
I quit riding motorcycles many years ago, but my first two were both Triumph, back in the early 1970's. Today's offerings look as good, and I'm sure have even better performance and reliability. I can't figure out, though, why they use "Rocket 3" as the name for their monster triple. That was a BSA marque; why not use "Trident"?
@@DeereX748 the Trident name had already been used on early naked Hinkley 750 and 900. So possibly why. And besides, doesn't Rocket III sound better? Particularly as it goes like one?!
Triumph owned BSA so the Rocket 3 (And I proudly own one) is a Triumph brand name. The Trident name used elsewhere works better for that particular bike. Triumph make good bikes, my neighbours grandson turned up the other day on his Triumph 675 and it was good to see a young new rider on a Triumph.
"A t-shirt company that sells motorcycles" Seriously, I wrote a paper when I was at uni about how HD is the only motorcycle brand that can get away with making own branded sausages. You've hit the nail on the head with the problems with HD, many people like the bikes (when Low Rider S prices dip below 10k I'll be the first one in line) but hate everything else. The dealers I've been to have always tried to up sell the life style element, saying things like "you'll join a brotherhood" or "Harley Davidson is a religion". Thats when they actually talk to you as 2/3 times the sales guy doesnt even acknowledge my existence. Then theres the owners. Believe it or not the nice ones I've met are the 1% crowd. The "Sons of Accounting" or the "Hells Dentists" types usually scoff at my Triumph Scrambler 1200 saying I should get a real bike. I agree with what you said, HD needs to make good value for money if they want to attract a new customer base. The newer riders wouldnt be caught dead at Sturgis, and we certainly dont care about "Heritage" or "Murican made" as much as good value.
'Fer sure. Recently met a fellow in a local bar popular with bikers, that captures the problem. When the guy saw my helmet, he asked what I was riding. And when I said it was nuthin' fancy, just an old airhead Beemer, it was like I'd just pushed a button, and he instantly launched into a spiel about "Harley's the only bike for him, they're 'Murikin, the best bike...yada, yada!" On the one hand, such obsessive 'brand loyalty' is a marketers dream, but on the other, this guy was 'older' and retired, and riding a 25 year old Road Glide, that'll likely be the last bike he'll ever own. And most of the younger blue collar guys in my neck o' the woods are lucky to even find work, much less afford a new HD. Though they'll still wear a Harley t-shirt, and sport the mandatory HD logo on the back of their used Civic or pickem-up!
Ha!,"you'll join a brotherhood",I am not in the "Brotherhood" on my 2017 Harley Night Rod Special,although my bike is now getting a lot of looks due to the discontinuation of the V Rod.
I’ve got the new S. You’re not getting one for less than 10. I’ve had it leaned pretty fuckin far. ABS on it saved me (and it) twice. I can’t conceive getting off the line any faster. The new inverted front end is incredible in the bends hauling ass. I can see 16k MAYBE but I’ve no regrets on what I paid. I thought about a Speed Triple RS at 16.5k but figured the LRS to suit my 30 year old, father life more. TBH I think I just need both. I’ll never get rid of this bike. I’ll only add to it. If it stays reliable, I wouldn’t be opposed to another new Harley. First bike. Never owned an old Harley but I own a new one and it makes me smile like a mother fucker at all times.
@@MrMann-gt1eh Thinking of building an older Dyna with an S&S kit or similar but mainly interested in the suspension and the new chassis being supposedly better.
I picked up a Sportster for $2500. Grinded and brushed rust off then polished the chrome. I'm refilling the fork oil today and will start at the tank and work through the carburator next weekend. RUclips is my resource and a street parking spot is my shop. I wanted a bike and never dreamed it would be a Harley. 1st bike and a fun project I'm not afraid to wrench on.
I'm a fairly new rider (1 year) and I've always been more biased towards Japanese brands for their reliability, but I saw a HD 1200 Custom for the first time, parked in front of my house yesterday, and I must admit I was smitten. Such a graceful vehicle, with the right dimensions, not too big, and so elegant! I won't diss HD anymore, I love V-twins they are my favorite engine configuration so far, although I have yet to try a triple. In short, I think HD has some winners in their line-up (the V-ROD has to be the best-looking cruiser I've ever seen) so to each their own. Now, if I can get my neighbor to let me ride it...
I brought a used Harley-Davidson Switchback, they say, you are supposed to test drive. No they drove it the trailer and got it home. Took it off the trailer and guess, it had the worst vibrations in the steering. I try to take it back, but they wouldn’t do. It sat in the garage almost 4 years. Not because of the problems it has, because I had gotten cancer and it destroyed my hip. I appeal to Harley-Davidson of Fargo to take it back, they won’t. They are worst bunch of screw ups, that I ever dealt with.
I’m probably the guy you talked about on his last bike. Came of age in the 70s. Had small KZ100, Yamaha 400 and street Suzuki GS 450L. Harley’s back then were, well, not good. Gave up riding for decades. When I decided to man up again I went with HD. I promised my mom I wouldn’t ride again while she was alive and I honored that promise. I took my inheritance and bought a 2008 Softail Custom Anniversary Edition. Copper and Vivid Black. Beautiful. And it’s true. I spent a gazillion dollars on helmets, saddle bags, jackets, big shields etc. The bike is still nice, and I’ll run it until I can’t. Once you are in your 60s the legs don’t like holding up 700 Lbs of stuff if your shoes hit something slippery. My brother had a 73 Bonneville. I didn’t get it then. But I sure do now.
I purchased a Harley Dyna Wide Glide from a dealer in 1998. I loved that bike and rode it from coast to coast, went camping on it, etc. I had just turned 30 years old. I sold it 5 years later when I grew tired of the corporate world (and took a significant pay cut) and a few years later got into dual sports, also camping on them. My military injuries got too bad and I wanted a shorter bike, so decided to go back to a Harley, and opted for the 883. I wanted to beef up the suspension, get a big sissy bar to strap my backpack to and go camping. I was not interested in single tracks, just forest service roads and the like. When I went to the dealer to get the bike, they tried to upsell me on a bigger bike, but I told them if they were not willing to sell me a Sportster 883, then I would go elsewhere to buy one. When I was informed it was a girl's bike, I informed him that it is the only Harley that has been in production since 1959 and those guys that used to live on them were certainly not girls. He shut up and I bought the bike for $9,200, out the door. I have been happy with it and my knees, hip and back like it a lot better.
That would have been the last time I would have visited a HD dealership after some BS experience like that. The whole biker culture in the USA started on 500-750CC bikes.
I am from India & I once dreamed of owning a Harley Davidson myself. I changed my mind as soon as I spoke with a few Harley owners in my circle and rode a few myself. The initial rush that you get from moment you get in the rider seat, to ignition and then hitting the 2nd/3rd gear....things begin to fall apart shortly after. Once you get over the awe of being in the presence of a HoG it's an extremely underwhelming experience. The astronomically high pricing doesn't make things better. I have ridden the Bonneville and India's very own Royal Enfield, and I think those choices are far more practical as opposed to buying a Harley.
I'm 71, started riding when I was 19 (do the math). I never really liked Harleys, either the ones from back then or the more recent examples. When my cousin got a Harley back then, I said "Huh??" All time favorite bike: Dunstall Norton Commando. Feathery light. Powerful for the day. Handled great. Sounded even better. So here's one old guy who doesn't understand the HD fascination. BTW: Current bikes: 1985 Honda 650 Nighthawk, 1995 Kawasaki Concours 1000. Old bikes for an old fart.
You were always just ahead of the curve, I suppose. Being a 'youngster' at 25, you seem to have had the same viewpoint as people in my age-group do to harley owners. The one person I know in my age group who got a harley, every one of us had the same response... "huh??". Why? My Honda CBR600r, which is the lowest-grade super-sport honda offers and at a fraction of a cost of your harley is more performant. Just, why? And if you want a cruiser for the sake of cruising and you aren't looking for max performance, no problem, just look at your other options and save literally thousands of dollars and get a better performing bike.
I have complained publicly a few times about the “snooty kiss my butt arrogant attitude” of Harley dealers but... today I was impressed! I got a new back tire for my Ultra Classic and they didn’t charge me extra for the install, they washed my bike w no extra charge, the service rep went out of his way to be friendly. I actually ended up talking to a floor sales person, a greeter and a parts guy too...they were all friendly and succeeded in tightening up my bond w Harley and their dealership. Thank you Bumpus Harley in Murfreesboro TN. Great job!
bought my first Triumph 3 years ago. after owning most brands out there, yes a harley too. the triumph is an outstanding bike. i chose the trophy se 1215cc. narrowed my choice down to the ducati or triumph. the ducatis' steep price and a great deal on leftover trophy made my choice easier. i was very fond of my 04 victory vegas, a v twin with power, handling and comfort.
Riders don't abandon Harley Davidson. Harley Davidson abandons riders. Sometimes a piece at a time while on the road. So far I've seen those bikes shake lose a head light bezel, a kick stand, a gear shift linkage nut, a starter button and an old lady. There isn't enough locktite to keep them together.
My first ride on a Harley and I watched the jam nut back off the throttle adjustment cable. I gained cruise control halfway through the ride when I lost all the return on my throttle.
I live in Japan and it's the same. A bonneville t100 is about 12k usd, the street triple is 9999, an iron 883? 15. Sportster is the same, with the custom just a little more.
andypants1000 yeah it’s insane because you get next to nothing on the iron 883 while a much cheaper triumph street twin comes well equipped and imo much better fit and finish.
Typical D-Bag boomer comment. Many of us Millennials and Gen Z are tried and true gun toting republicans that love God and don't ask for help from nobody. BUT we will never buy an HD because the only people who can afford them are boomers and the only people they appeal to are boomers. If a real bike makes only 75 horsepower and cost 15 grand I will gladly buy a fake bike.
@@Kevin24Seven Ouch. Why all the hating on boomers? All the boomers I know left school and went right to work building lives, buying homes and saving up to send kids to tech school and college. They became teachers, firemen, policemen, mail carriers, some opened businesses like plumbing and heating, carpenters, electicians. They worked hard, put money into the system. Of the 552 from my graduaing class only two became dbags. They both died young of drug abuse.
You hit the nail on the head with this report. After ownership of a custom soft-tail, followed by a Ultra Classic full bagger walking into various dealerships I was pretty much ignored for a good half hour while viewing the current stock. Maybe the fact I don’t have a beard or a traditional tough man look may have contributed to this. Even if I had been approached the chances of buying a new HD was slim. I found the brand had not moved on in the last 20 or so years in looks, handling and price. I sold my Ultra privately and purchased a Ducati MultiStrada something that got me excited to ride again!
Davyboy Colon sold my fourth harley for my nth ? Triumph. Im 67 and couldnt even push the super glide around in my garage. The 2005 bonne has more grunt than the 1200 skirtster i had.
HD bikes giving you yesterdays technology today at tomorrows imaginary prices. I do not get them, loved by middle managers who want to take part in some sort of bad boy cosplay at the weekend. Born to be mild. I predict soon to bought out by a Chinese businessman.
I learned a very long time ago what Harley really sells is a DIY starter kit to ride, putt around on, while you figure out what you really want. Then You build it. I had a couple back when then I went back to Triumphs and the new 2020 Rocket III is on my next list it's vastly improved smaller lighter and a lot more engine than previous models 2500CC 165 Hp 170 pounds of torque that kicks in quick and stays there
No way dude, what they sell is the ultimate wet dream. At least in my country, the 883 is sold by at least 4 years worth of minimum wage! The way I see, if I were to get one, I would have 3 options. Either I take a loan and spend the next 12 years paying it off, sell my inherited house or give my retirement a farewell.
Where I live, nearly everyome owns a Harley. And THAT is one of the reasons I own a Triumph.
LMAO. I live in Wisconsin and I am Road Captain on a Sprint RS....
YES you see Harley on every street that is why i got an Indian Chief
@@ifor20got I LOVE my Sprint ST 1050...been riding it for 10 years after upgrading from a VFR. Finally got a BMW R1200RT because my wife wasn't comfortable on the back of the Triumph...but can't bring myself to part with the Sprint.
you know what is cool? To ride what you ride because you chose it not because you wanna be different.
Nothing says "I didn't want a Harley" like Triumph.
Triumph - A motorcycle company that sells overpriced T-shirts.
Harley Davidson - A T-shirt company that sells overpriced motorcycles...
I priced them both yesterday. They're not that far apart in price. If you buy a foreign bike, you're paying a shitload of taxes and importation fees. All that is passed on to the buyer, not the co. that sells it.
@@craigpennington1251 A lot of that "Domestic" bike is made in Asian countries.
@@theonesickman More right than not. But I still like the bikes. My beef is that motorcycles are becoming like cars. Way to computerized which is totally unnecessary and very expensive. With today's materials and build quality, almost every bike is a good bike. People buy different makes & models because they like them. Prices on all makes are way up in price and pretty even with each other. To say one is better than the other is a personal view. It all depends on what you want.
Lol I love it 😆
Ouch!
Harley Davidson, The most efficient way of turning gasoline in to noise without all the annoying side effects of speed, power and reliability.
wanna race against my Dyna? Your gonna lose it aint your granpops HD DUMMAZ
Oh, come on...be fair. You forgot the Harley's most important function; they provide infinite fuel for boomer fairy tales.
@@LowDoughTech GTwin Cam . Had some serious flaws. Mine seems fine at 80,000 miles though. I did a gear drive on it though. M8 liquid cooled 4 valve head and back to a single cam. They seem good to go. And they run strong. again not your grandpops old big heavy slow hog
@H H Going broke in a few years? That's a far stretch, buddy. They're already broke and have been at it for a couple of years now.
ANYONE who tries to condescend Boomers are ignorant. Boomers made the best rock and roll ever. Boomers made the entire computer industry. Boomers are the best generation America ever had. I am from Gen X. Millennials and Gen Zers have given absolutely nothing to this planet.
Anyway... Harleys have a lot of unhappy haters it seems. Must be something of substance there. Take the Sportster. A model that has sold for over 60 years. First Sportster was 1957. First small block Chevy was 1955. Harley started the motorcycle industry in Japan when they helped start the Rikuo company using Harley machinery and tooling. SUCK IT YOU FROTHY MOUTHED PROGRAMMED ROBOTS. Lastly, Triumph DID NOT EXIST from 1983 through 1992. There was ZERO MOTORCYCLE PRODUCTION for those ten years. Harley has a WAY BETTER track record than Triumph ever could at this point.
Shopped hard for my first new motorcycle two summers ago, and the 2018 Triumph Bobber Black was the hands down winner. Blows away anything in the Sportster line, and costs thousands less than the cheapest softtail. With traction control, cruise control, and ABS standard. And it’s a blast to ride. 23 months and 15,000 miles later, still puts a smile on my face.
Those Triumph Bobbers look fantastic.
@@mjh5437 They sure do and I almost bought one but I ended up getting the V9 Bobber from Moto Guzzi. I sat on one at the NY show and it felt great. Then I saw a picture of it with me on it.....For my frame 6.02" tall the bobber looked tiny.
@@tedmarakas2626 Funnily enough I’m 6’2” too....I’ve just bought a Triumph Hurricane x75 instead 🤪
@@mjh5437 Now....thats the definition of cool. I love the X75.....and you don't see many in the wild. In fact I've only seen one running around.
@@tedmarakas2626 Only about 1,200 were ever made.
" i tried to tell you" Eric Buell.
.Harley is rotting from the inside out it’s sad they’ve catered to a customer base that was aging and raging against anything new, with dealers being the gatekeepers as well..last time I was in a dealer the salesman literally told me you don’t want that Sportster it’s too underpowered, you want this Soft tail with the upgraded Milwaukee 8 and that costs 11k more than you want to spend. When I replied that I didn’t want a car payment for a toy, the salesman said then I guess you don’t want a Harley and walked away saying nothing more.
Later that day I was in the Indian Dealer looking at a Scout.
I was having a bad day one day and decided to treat myself to my first ever visit to a HD dealer. I told them up front that I wasn't there to buy anything and I was just looking because I'd had a bad morning and wanted to look at pretty toys I can't afford.
Salesman says okay, and not 2 sentences later, he drags me from the Roadster I was curious about to a $27k bike. Annoyed, I tried to walk back over there, but he literally stood in my way. Proceeded to talk about power and yadda yadda yadda. When I brought up that if I were in the market for a bike with a lot of power, I'd go with a VFR1200F (an ugly bike, but one I really want). Queue the excuses. It's not about the power, it's the sound! Yeah but it's not a Harley! Do you want to look like a clown in your riding gear?
...Okay, we're done here.
Arrogant, stupid Harley salesman. No wonder they're going under soon. When all the (wealthy) baby-boomers are done buying their bikes, it will be game over, lol.
@@Idividezero I share the sentiment. That strategy only works with the "more money than brains" people. Anyone with half a common sense will do the math and decide an HD just isn't worth the money they are asking. It is an expensive ticket to a club I don't want to belong.
They did encourage the worst kind of exclusivity culture in their dealerships, especially in their sales-people! When I went back to the dealer that I bought my bike from looking for an older, used model (I wanted something specific. I knew what, and I knew why.), the salesman talked himself right out of a sale! I was prepared to buy, they had something that fit the bill, and the salesman turned me off to the point that I walked away.
When your corporate culture is OK with your sales team turning down easy money because the “mark” appreciates the product but is immune to the kool-aid, the writing is on the wall already at that point. Your company is a walking corpse whose obituary has not yet been published.
Wish they told me that. I traded in my sportster for a m8 softail after 6 months of owning it. Couldn’t be happier with the bike.. but I definitely could be happier with the car payment 🤣
I went to a Harley dealer after work, dressed in shirt and tie. I literally stood for 15 minutes trying to get help, while 2 smug salesmen looked at me from their desks with amusement. The bikes were packed in so tight I couldn’t sit on anything without worry of being asked to “get off” When I asked for help I was given full retail prices on 2 bikes I stood at. There was no offer to move one out to sit on, and both guys never moved from behind their desks. I had $45,000 to spend! I drove to an Indian dealer and within 15 mins was put on a bike, told to take my time, no pressure to buy and I bought that day!! Never, even if Harley were the last bike on the planet would I ever go near a HD dealership.
Yeah these Harley guys think they're real badasses in the dealerships bunch of assholes
Every dealership is a different company. I ride a HD and I like it. My dealer takes care of me and they didn't sell me the bike. I went into an Indian dealer and they tried to sell me a Yamaha. So there you go.
Some of the best salesmen for Indian, Triumph, etc. . . work at Harley. Funny how they sell more of their competition's bikes with that attitude than they know.
Same here, rich spoiled fake wannabee gangsters ! Harley is at a dead end
Why i got a Indian also
I rode HD exclusively for almost 20 years...7 different ones from 2000 to 2018. What you say here are all the reasons I now ride a Kawasaki Ninja 1000SX. More handling, power, technology, features for half the price of a Road King. I also got tired of the 'Harley tax' and the manufactured tough guy bs.
Quick story...I remember when a few short years ago a basic black Road King was 18,999cdn. Last time I set foot in my local HD dealership it was $24,500. I asked the salesman, not really expecting an insightful answer, what had happened that suddenly the same bike is more than 25% more in 2 years. His answer..."well, it has ABS now'. I almost laughed in his face. A $5000 Ninja 400 has ABS.
Wait... Ninja vs Harley is like a Porche vs a '79 Cadillac. They are totally different bikes.
Well what did you expect from company with yesterday tech at tomorrow prices tagline lol. Just wait a year or two it will be 30k because they added rudimentary traction control 😂
Yeah. I helped a friend install some parts he bought to customise his 883 and I was amazed at the lack of technology and jacked up price on them. When he told me he spent his hard earned $300 I said to him: "when you get over this phase, you'll start to enjoy real bikes". It's like a cult. They can't get out.
👀🙄.. As a Ninja rider, I am almost(!?) offended that you compared my Ninja to Harley... 😂🤣😁😜
@@Tobeon2 I think the point he was trying to make is that you can buy an entire motorcycle equipped with ABS for the amount they marked up for ABS on an already overpriced bike.
I was sitting in a marketing meeting at the local H-D dealer I worked for. I was taking a beating because our door traffic was in decline. I got mad and said "Look! My job is to generate excitement. The innovations for 2018 from Harley-Davidson consist of s new Triglide rear axle, 2017 models in different colors and a radio upgrade that make the radio usable!" They told me that I was not with the program.
Fuck the corporate jargon!! Your bosses should be man enough in their white collars, to listen to the man on the ground, 'cos he KNOWS!!!!
so the program is to keep harley loosing money and not care about the client?
@@aob.aob83 The client has changed. If you are over 65 you are not Harley's market. The old guard has bought their last Tri Glide. It was a good run but it's going to take more than flag waving and screaming eagles to interest the younger generation in the Harley Brand. Harley-Davidson has weather storms like this in the past by being financially smart. Smart business may not appease the masses.
The whole "bad boy" look is what kills Harley for me. I honestly don't think South Park was too far off on that episode they did. They're just cringy.
WHAT DID YOU SAY?! BRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAPBRAP
Are you transgender?
Beaux Dup
Why do you care?
@@ericc365 I care about what I want to care about, why do you care about what I care about?
@A SJ southpark would be more significant than Harley these days.
I think the cartoon hit the nail right on the head.
Harley riders ride for the image not the bike.
Doesn't sound like a real biker to me..
Just bought a 2019 Triumph Scrambler 1200 XE. (my first Triumph)
1) Most fun bike I've ever owned.
2) Best dealer experience I've had.
10/10 will get another Triumph because of this experience.
Passed my big boy license last year. Planned to test drive everything - Kawasaki, Ducati, Yamaha, Honda, even an Indian. Second bike i test rode - Street Scrambler. I'd ridden about 100 yards and it felt like my bike. I had the biggest grin. Cancelled all the other test rides booked and bought it the following week - matt green paint job. As soon as COVID-19 lockdown finishes i'm test riding the 1200 XE. #triumphforlife
CONGRATS! What a nice bike - 15' Tiger 1200 rider
Welcome to the club Darth, couldn't agree more about the great service and awesome motorcycles.
Darth Breakfast thanks, I’m looking to get that bike
I am stuck on a chinese 125 being overtaken by bin lorries. passed theory then lockdown... still im off now for a 2 hour ride to the mull of galloway it's still glorious!
“Harley-Davidson- The most efficient way to convert gasoline into noise yet discovered by man!”
Full disclosure: I own and ride a Harley-Davidson. And I enjoy it. And you are 100% correct, sir! Even as I bought it, I felt the motorcycle was priced at a premium (to put it mildly), but I happily bought it, anyway.
Thank you for your work!
Edit: Some detail will help provide context. I purchased the motorcycle I refer to in this post new in June of 2010. It is a 2009 FLSTSB, the Softail Cross Bones. I happily paid the premium, because it is the last non-CVO springer they made, and in my opinion, one of the best looking bikes they ever offered. And it has provided me with many years and many thousands of smiles, and that’s what matters. I am not a brand snob. I will show respect to anyone out there on two wheels. As long as they are enjoying themselves and riding what they want, that’s enough to make me happy for them.
Thanks again!
There is no shame in paying a premium to buy something truly special. I bought a Ducati once. The problem with HD today is what you get for the money. When you compare the equipment and performance (not just speed but handling, braking, and reliability) of today's Harleys to any other manufacturer the looks alone can't justify the price.
The best part, I guess, is that many HD riders do actually ride. There are too many 'garage queens' in every brand. But when I get away from the city, out into the twisty fun roads the percentage of Harleys drops quickly. It wouldn't be that hard for the Motor company to up their riding dynamics game. They simply don't care.
try buying one in australia
in 2013 i brought a 2007 fatboy $23000 au dollars second hand
fatboys are $30 plus thousand here now
Bill Kerr: Sharp sir, said the sixty year old and three time HD owner. 🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
Ahhh, just typing and reading. He slates Harley for binning the sportster 1200 flat track lookalike (I cant even remember the model designation and I’ve just watched it - I truly am 60). But just remember Ducati caught a cold with the similar era Sport Classic which bombed, but is now a sought after model.
The thing about the noise is that new Harleys are actually quiet. You have to spend a few more grand to get the Screaming Eagle or Vance & Swines pipes to make more noise and degrade the performance. I've got nothing against the bikes, but I'd rather own three nice Hondas than one basic Harley.
Bob James You aren’t kidding! To quote the late, great George Carlin, “I don’t think I need to tell you that it goes without saying that there are some things better left unsaid. The less said about it, the better.”
Man, I've been a Harley Tech for 3 years, import bike Tech for 10+ years, and I agree with your views on Harley as a company. In comparison on build quality, Harley's are top notch. The materials used are tried and true. But heavy, and often bulky. The ingenuity of the Japanese manufacturers are fantastic. The weight reduction and gearing make for a less is more situation when talking about bike performance. And then the Western European bikes are just great. Triumph I find to be a great manufacturer. The newer Bonneville looks very retro, but hands on, it's just looks. All new tech is hidden behind those beautifully crafted accent pieces. And they ride very well. Harley has special place in my heart, but I'm always going to go with a great adventure bike, and in the end, it all comes down to how the rider likes the feel of the bike and if they can afford it.
That's my sentiment exactly.
exactly.
*Yes. But most Harley models retain a high resale value. While "Japanese manufacturers" (because we're comparing one company to many) don't hold up in value unless it's a low volume model or unicorn.* And while we're on European models, they don't produce spare parts after a decade of a model years release. Every brand has it's faults - irregardless of nationality.
Triumph are pretty expensive too, but it's way more value for your money. The new street triple it's pretty tempting
Agreed! Great all around bike.
@@DifferentSpokesTV
Even Triumph is too pricey.
You can get better bikes for less money from Suzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha and Honda.
Just bought a mint 2014 Triumph speedmaster for $3450, good luck finding a hd of similar year and price
@@mushroomcloud1 The new Trident 660 isn't expensive, on par with Japanese equivalents. in US think they are 9K on the road new.
We had a Harley / Triumph dealership in NJ. Actually it was a Harley first then they took on Triumph when they first came back to the states . Mechanics at the place would undermine the triumph brand by telling perspective buyers they were sent to Triumph technical school and they saw engineering junk being made that couldn't be serviced.
Instead of buying the harley street bob. I Got a water cooled 100hp Indian bobber for 5k$ Less than the harley.
Same here... Love my bobber. Fast, looks great, and not an HD. I get nothing but thumbs up on the roads and mobbed in gas stations by people asking about it. I just couldn't bring myself tk pay 3k more for a Sportster with 60% of the hp, no ABS, and no Harley Dealership games.
Bang on. Former HD owner and have watched with dismay as the brand went from a motorcycle company to a fashion company. Their palatial dealerships are a joke, I can't stand to enter one these days. Uninformed sales staff turn over all the time. With the new bikes (Streetfighter, etc.) I believe a huge obstacle for sales will be these dealerships, as they operate as a "welcome to the club" approach rather than a motorcycle shop. They should have evolved Buell and used that network for the new bikes.
I wonder how many Buell sales were probably lost due to being the only place you could get one was at a HD dealership?
And their motorclothes are way too expensive for Chinese crap.
You're right Harley should have diversified their model line up years ago AND straightened out their dealers. The failure and treatment like red-headed step children of the Buells, V-rod and now the Street can mostly be laid right at the feet of the dealers. Those bikes are/were semi-hidden in the back of most show rooms and anyone inquiring about one was mostly told "You need to get a real bike". Then there is the douche-baggery of the whole Harley culture, it has alienated many in the motorcycling community, so much so that many have a small emotional investment in seeing Harley fail.
@chris younts What your failing to grasp is that the cruiser market is dwindling and Harley's past but resent history of expanding into other segments has been a dismal failure. Take the Buell a sports bike, they were treated like red-headed step children by the dealers and ultimately failed. Had the dealers made an effort to grow into this market Harley would now be established in the sport bike segment and SELLING sport bikes. But they couldn't be bothered to make that effort. The only way Harley is going to grow and maybe even survive is to expand into all categories of motorcycles just like Triumph.
I wanted to like the V-Rod. Great engine, crap bike. Ugly as a bag of smashed assholes. Sat on one, thought I was going to fall over backwards just sitting still. Didn't know if it was a cruiser or a performance bike. Turned out to be neither.
@chris younts Say's the Harley Salesman !
Every hipster in the world for 10 years straight: " We will pay $20k for a retro cafe racer."
Harley Davidson "Naah we're good with the same customer demographic as Cadillac"
it's like 11-13k for a retro cafe racer. Be more salty with your 30k 'Livewire' that gets beat out again by a cheap chinese ebay bike for 9k
@@Hahadonkeypunch or a Ural, hehehe
Not making Buell more of a part and not bringing an updated XLCR back is what is killing Harley. Remember the Sportster Sport , with awesome brakes and adjustable suspension ? Bet you dont , they killed it before it could of had a chance. Even the XR 1200 never was allowed to grow into something that could have saved Harley. But we will keep making 30 k Ultra Glides that no one wants .
Oh so Cadilac demographics are into electric bike now?
@@notyourmom850 just imagine if HD made a solid effort on a competitive sport bike. Their sales would explode! And I mean one that isn't low tier, in talking top mid to top tier.
I was saying this day would come back in the early 90's. I sold my seventh and last Harley in 94. Love my Honda Aero 1100 with over 180,000 miles and never been apart.
A buddy of mine is very proud of his Harley having just passed 100k miles.........and it’s second engine rebuild. I sold my last Triumph at 65k miles. It’s clutch cable broke once.....that’s it
The Triumph Bobber is the sexiest Motorcycle I've seen in the last 30 years ...
Especially TFC model 😍
You don't get out mach then?
Yeah, if you're 5''6" tall & a girl. 😂
like it especially for shorter riders very low seatheight.i have a speed twin bad ass
I hadn't seen one (or at least noticed the model) til you said this. I googled it... ye, that thing is sexy as hell, coming from a sport-bike honda-cbr look fanatic. If I were to get that style of bike, I'd hunt for one of those.
ALL of Harley's troubles are Self-inflicted. I don't care anymore.
I haven't cared in years. I still ride Harleys, but not new ones. I have a 2004 Roadster 1200 and a 1985 FXRS.
An equivalent electronics company would sell unreliable, chromed-covered, land-line rotary phones with deafening ringers at above iPhone prices.
So.....you cared at one time? Why?
I'll continue to ride/own a Harley for as long as I can. I like the style. I like the old technology, kind of like a trusty lawnmower you've had for years, that you can fix yourself (My bike is 20 years old by the way). Sadly I do think they will fade away or be absorbed into something else. At this time in the global economy, Harley is out on a pretty shaky limb. They can only sell that bad boy image so long before it becomes a joke. Even warming up to that old school nostalgia can only take them so far. I'll still wander into my local dealership a few times a year and wonder how long it will be before I will be forced onto 3 wheels, and maybe buy a shirt.
@@Fourandaquarter I sold my Harley because it was way too expensive and its performance was garbage. I do really miss annoying the shit out of everyone within a 100 yards though, so I bought a megaphone and I use it whenever I'm in public. It makes me feel strong and cool with a really loud voice. It's also safer, because I never sneak up on anyone and they can hear me coming.
Wow! It's like you can read my thoughts. Triumph can make the competitive Street Triple and Speed Triple. So when they make a retro bike they are not shy about modern technology and performance. They even spent years NOT making the Bonneville so that they wouldn't get stuck as a nostalgia brand.
" if you're a budget minded young rider ' you don't need a new bike - plenty of great deals from owners who decided they're not into biking or have a financial worry - think about it : )
Exactly, I buy all of my bikes used. I’ve learned the hard lesson about reliability that way.
Many Harley Davidsons are still on the road. Some even made it home.
Lol love it
Harley should not have forgotten the small shops.
In machine design class in the 70s our lecturer held the view that if anything broke on a Harley, they would not redesign it, they just made it twice as big.
I was looking at the Breakout. Nearly 20 grand of my British pounds. Then I saw the Triumph Bobber. Half the price and all the custom parts availability. Have I spent a shedload of money on my Bobber? Yes. Has it cost as much as a new Breakout? Nowhere near. As it stands I'm seven grand up and I have my perfect bike.
I spent $1200 on my 1968 T-120 30 years ago.I still ride it often and wouldn't trade it for the world.
I was looking at the harley 48, I test ride it 3 different times. It had the finesse and ride of a garbage truck. Then I rode triumph bobber and less then two blocks I know it was going to be mine. A few weeks later It was in my garage . I am so lucky that got the bobber and not the harley, it would have been the biggest mistake in my riding life.
Triumph is also the sole provider of race engines for the Moto2 category in MotoGP.
'Yesterday's technology of tomorrow's prices' made me chuckle.
I liked high as cheech and chong
As a person who has owned 7 sportsters and currently ride one , I completely agree with this statement.
@@robertbelote5273 as a Harley Davidson Mechanic, I agree with this statement 😂
Harley is just greedy, they charge you so much for everything. As iconic as it is, when they fall i wont even skip a beat.
Yup. I had a 1999 Sportster 1200 Custom, wanted to trade up to a 2001 Softail with the TC, and first year of FI, and the dealer absolutely tried to rip me off on the trade, so I drove it 90mi to sell it to another dealer. Then when I went to buy, they forced me to get $1500 in accessories. This was during the 2000s Harley boom. Never again. After I had that 2001 for a bit, sold it and moved on, never even looked at HD ever again.
Just drop the price of the bikes and accessories, Stop being more interested in massive profits ( Which for some reason ) denotes success.??. Put more bikes on the road at a reasonable price and everyone is happy. Plus your customers will come back. Just look at triumph from extinct to top worldwide success in a few short years. It's an English Heritage Like Norton as H/D is an American Heritage. Stop going for ridiculous Profit margins. Give the people what they want at a price they can afford and they will come back.
Well said sir. I am a former HD owner and agree with what you said completely. They seem to be more inclined to push T-shirts and accessories than wanting to sell bikes the consumer actually wants to buy. I hate to see the company in getting close to being in dire straits but looking at the dealerships and the bikes they sell, it appears to be problems of their own making. There seems to be a trend of all brands to only have large dealerships. I miss the days of the smaller dealers whom you knew personally.
I know what you mean. The local Honda dealership I go to is really small (showroom has space for a dozen bikes and a few ATV's), but that's part of the charm. I've been seeing the same folks there for years, and know them by name. Their parts manager and head mechanic both recognize me, know what I ride, and enjoy shooting the breeze for a few minutes between work. They're good people who just enjoy their jobs and the machines they service. Too bad that sounds like the exception, rather than the norm.
The only bike I've bought from a Harley dealership was a Triumph
LOL LOL
That's funny! Same here. I bought a used Ducati at Barnett Harley in El Paso. Didn't even bother looking at the HD bikes.
See...Harley does sell good bikes!
Royal enfield
Spot on assessment. I actually own a 21 year old Ultra Classic that I recently bought for 5k from a private seller. My fourth Harley in 15 years and easily my favorite because I'm not giving a single red cent to HD Corp as I now have enough experience working on them to fix them myself. I am the curmudgeon.
I bought through the internet some beautiful leather hand made saddle bags from a leather artist a few years back for my Bonneville Steve McQueen special. I asked her how biking was going in N California. She said guys we’re forgoing Harleys because of mechanical breakdowns and price increases for back to basics Triumphs. ‘Nough said.
The fact that H-D have lasted as long as they have, while steadfastly refusing to innovate, update, or, change, AND, continuing to wildly overcharge, is, frankly, shocking.
The biggest problem to me are their bikes are butt ass ugly. Proud T100 and now T120 owner and wow does it go and look good without any of the ridiculous noise. My Triumph sounds like it doesn't need to try and rides like it too
*It just means more people like those bikes.*
Owned a HD Fat Boy from 2002-2010. Put 90,000 miles on it in that period. I must say it was as reliable as an anvil, it always started & ran well. The brakes however, were barely adequate, the cornering clearance marginal, & the ride quality from the softail rear suspension was quite rough on less than perfect pavement. I loved the bike, & rode it all over the U.S. After I sold it I bought a 2011 Triumph Thunderbird. It rode, stopped & turned better than my Fat Boy ever did. In essence, it is a better Harley than my Harley was, or at least a better functioning motorbike. I still have the Thunderbird, & added a Bobber Black last fall. I still love Harleys, but I've had Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, Moto Guzzi, & Triumph, all were great bikes. Harley will need to learn how to actually compete, they're not the only game in town.
G K L - if you loved the bike (even with the faults) and did so many mikes on it, I’m curious to know why you bought another make? I guess Harley should want to know the answer as well, but they won’t.
@@bryanduncan1640 I feel the Motor Company has a deep trust that their customers won't buy anything but a Harley Davidson. I do know several riders that feel this way. I'm just not brand loyal. The Fat Boy did have a mechanical presence that the Thunderbird does not. I traded some character for better ride dynamics.
@van Straalen I guess I should have mentioned I test rode some new Harleys in 2011, the Thunderbird was the better machine
What's your experience with Moto Guzzi? Was it reliable? I'm in the market for one but it's a bit hard to find people who owned them who could tell me their experience with the brand.
@@xocoyotl4 The two I owned were the older 2 valve California models. The first was a 2000 California Jackal, the 2nd was a 2008 California Vintage. They were both pretty reliable, oddly enough the Jackal was more so of the two, despite being the entry level California. I had to have steering head bearings put in the Vintage, the Jackal had no problems whatever. The head bearing thing I just chocked up to a bad day at the Guzzi factory. I've had no experience with the newer 1400cc models, but those that I had were solid bikes.
What's great too is no one would ever ask about my friends Harley's, they would always have questions and want to look at my Triumph though.
If their bikes were better than Triumph (and that's a big "if") as well as more affordable, I still would own a Triumph just because of the attitude of the riders.
Watching Harley is like visiting your 95 year old grandma, she can go at any moment.
Aww man,thats shameless.But good👍
Is she that frisky? Not really my taste ... YOU KNOW... WRINKLES....
@@paullacey2999 *But is it?* I sounds like something any squid on a metric would say because they think it makes them sound cool.
I do like Harleys though. I ride up behind a guy on one and kind of challenge him a little and watch him start riding hard. Except all that happens is more noise, so I turn the happy handle on my Rocket and leave. :)
Rocket Captain here too and I know exactly what you are talking about.
I have an R3 now finally. I can’t wait ;-)
I'm Chinese. I tried both Sportster & T120. Now, I own a great Triumph Scrambler XC.
this guy gets it... Harley should hire him as the next CEO. They might as well, pretty soon there won't be all that much to loose.
There are many who see this. Thankful he has the courage to say it. HD needs young, innovators like him.
Considering the time it would take to R&D in addition to passing through legal hoops, HD is already way too close to circling the drain to let out the product line they need, much less attract the market that would keep them alive. COVID-19 has been a huge hit to HD (and everyone, obviously) which I will be surprised to see them survive without a seriously positive reception of the streetfighter and adventure bike they were planning on coming out with. Livewire has been a failure so those are the only things they have going for them to boost profit
I am not at all anti-HD, I actually want to see the Streetfighter be wildly successful because I'm strongly considering getting one after they're released and have been on the market for long enough to see any long term issues pop up. They need to keep the price down though, that's going to be the major issue here
Harley wouldn't hire someone like him because he sees the real story and Harley would rather be in La La Land.
Or that much to lose.
That’s exactly it. This guy gets it. The folks at HD don’t get it at all. They think they do, but they don’t. They’re 20 years behind.
Finally, someone who tells it like it is. Yay speed triple!
Bobbie Burns I bought my Harley Low Rider S instead of a Speed Triple RS. I can’t say I regret it because they’re two different bikes and I’d never part with this Harley but in no way does it satiate my need for a Speed Triple RS. I will certainly own both in the next 2 years.
Riding a Harley is like straddling a good looking $50,000 out-of-balance paint mixer
How do you guys come up with this stuff? I'm still laughing.
I'm dying
@Robert Zuccaro So that's what HD stands for: Home Depot.
@Robert Zuccaro They sell Harleys at Home Depot now?
@Robert Zuccaro bruh you got bodied lmao
I've got a 2006 Bonneville and love it, put cocktail slipons on and it crackles like a Spitfire.
Straight aircooled twin, consistent cylinder temps, easy to service and tune.
Sounds great!
My only disappointment was that there wasn't more "While Triumph Succeeds" in this video.
Yeah, I was looking forward to the part with all the other motorcycle manufacturers stomping on Harley's grave.
My Triumph is the most fun I’ve had on two wheels. The triple provides a character-rich motor, plenty of torque and the sound is pretty awesome.
My next bike is a Ducati or a MotoGuzzi though. I’m going through every brand as I can.
Let me save you some time, stick with the Triumph brand. They offer a little taste of everything while being damn good at it. Having ridden just about everything, BMW and Triumph offer one hell of a riding experience for your money.
I love the Guzzi brand. I have owned 7 of them and loved them all, with the California 1400 being the best, great motor, comfortable, long legs like pretty much all their models.
They have been around since 1921 and hold the record for being continuously in business behind Harley.
It’s nice being unique out on the road too.
I have owned 2 Ducati’s. Wonderful bike, but there is a lot of sameness about them.
You should definitely experience them.
Moto guzzi has more heritage than Harley now and at a better price. Not super cheap but not horrible expensive neither. Much nicer machines for the price.
There was a 5 year period, where I bought nothing but new triumph triples. The street and speed triple are pretty much perfection in terms of a naked bike.
Have a MGX 21, Guzzi's are great
Fortnine just did a great video about this.
*This video is also great
I just just discovered FortNine. *_Great_* channel! Informative and high production value.
@@Cheezmonka if you ask me, this guy did better. Fortnine tried to be honest but not hurtful. This guy was just brutally honest.
@@rohannk224 ughh this guy did btr that guy did btr what are you 8?
It was!
Brilliant commentary that describes EXACTLY why I traded my Harley Nightrain for a Triumph T100 seven years ago and NEVER looked back. A reintroduction to why I started riding 40 years ago. Safe travels!
Thanks! Much appreciated! Likewise.
I have a Bonneville stuck off the west coast in a shipping crate, been a fan of BRITISH bikes since childhood, that hasn't waned.
That sucks!!!!! Had a 1970 TR6 - 650 .man that bike was fun handled great should've never got rid of that one
Started with with T-100 Bonneville to a Street Triple R and now looking into the Speed Triple R. Triumph sets it up perfect for you.
Harley are made for retired dentists or lawyers, not for regular folks. Triumphs are retro but hot.
I remember a buddy coming to my house and he had just bought a brand new "Night train". This would be around 2004.He told me what he paid for it and I looked at him and said,"You paid what I paid for this house!"I thought he got totally ripped off.Price was about three times more then the competition,and what really kills me is that its probably worth about 1/3 of what he paid for.
If u want a maxiscooter: Honda, crossbike or quadro: Yamaha, sportbike: Ducati or Kawasaki, enduro: BMW or KTM, cafe racer or chopper: Triumph, Indian or Yamaha. If u need a bike in general - go to Honda dealership.
Exactly
I still ride my Honda CB500 and I will do maybe forever , she has all I need
I’ve long said Harley needs to follow triumph example they have old school bikes for triumph loyalists but they Also have cool new bikes for the next generation Harley should still cater to its loyal following but they also need to move ahead
There is really so much choice in the motor cycle market, and for all types of riders that I wonder why loyalty to the brand or the delusions people have about Harleys being great bikes, let alone the pattern for all the future baffels me. Let them go, and it will be good for mens characters if they can stop pretending to be meatheads.
The same problem exists in Germany, snobbish dealers, with the bikes extremely high prices, non-competitive technology and heavy as lead. The last time I was interested in Harley, the company was preparing the 100th anniversary celebration. To test ride a Harley in Germany you have to prove that you have experience with big machines. This meant that you had to hide your Honda and lie. I don't know if this is still the case, but I won't test it either.
But there are other reasons for not buying a Harley : the average buyer is over 50, has studied or is simply wealthy. Mostly the Harley is the first bike, because you already have all the other toys. This clientele likes to keep to themselves, only wears company clothes and is much too old for tent and sleeping bag, so it must be a hotel. So these people are always among themselves at biker meetings. When they mingle with the ordinary people, they expect to be approached about the bike, accessories and Ray Ban sunglasses.
Friends who used to ride Harley have changed the brand because they were equated with these people. In addition, they felt treated as second-class customers as soon as a member of a Colour Club showed up. Previously arranged appointments were postponed because the bad boy had priority.
If Harley doesn't work on its image as a clothing store with attached motorcycle production, it has only bleak prospects in the long run.
From the perspective of a German or European, I will also mention another reason: since Trump and his "America first" jabbering it is very uncool to buy American goods. If you do it anyway, you are considered a Trump fan. It's just the way it is. Maybe it will change again when this guy is no longer in the White House, but will Harley still be around for that?
btw, my bike is an iconic Moto Guzzi, built in Mandello del Lario by proud Italians. So I don't need to change ;-)
💪👍✌
Wow. I am not insulting you directly, but it is sad to see people get so salty about "America First". If Germany said "Germany First!" I would respect that, and then I would still buy a Volkswagen. Now if you're mad because of Trump tweets... I totally get it, and it would make sense because that's the effect he's going for.
Poop America first is not the problem, but blackmailing long term partners for short term populist effects.
its not just americas first. Its the way he blame all the other countrys for his faults, like he did in Coronacrisis, and also that America has lost its shine. In my Opinion the Healtcare, the Insurence System, also the Social-System itself is worst than it is in lots of Third-World Countrys
Riding 35 years. Never own a Harley. Not my kind of a bike.
harleys are shit
@ no brother its not its just not u get to many speed wobbles on harley
@ No they would still be flying SPADS or Ford Tri Motors.
Wow
I can't wait to buy a brand new Harley Davidson motorcycle at their bankruptcy sales event.
They will most likely get bailed out by the goverment in other words our taxes will bail them out.
😳👀... I never thought about it that way!!! Good idea!!! 😁😉
@@ivanaguirre8641 Yeh like so many times before.
WOOOO. I only buy bikes used, so I'm thinking if I want to buy a Harley, it's better to do it before they go under.
This isn't the first time that Harley Davidson has faced troubles with sales. Times change, trends come and go, yet HD has always managed to pull through. Like every other corporation, it takes good leadership. Hopefully, the Mother Company will withstand this latest downfall.
"Hardly does it son" is what they are called in Britain. 😁
My income has never managed to catch up with Harley prices...
Is not worth it. I have plenty income but was born poor. As such when I pay for something I really look at the intrinsic value of what I’m buying. I would only consider buying a Harley sportster. And with many brands offering bikes in the same category, bringing you way more for less price, I’m sorry but Harley are just not worth my money. Shame really.
U r lucky to never by these bike!...🤔😝😝😝
What you need to do is look for a post-2004 Sportster in your local want ads. Low mileage bikes can be had dirt cheap and if you get the 1200 you can't go wrong.
@@spaceflight1019 Bought my 2011 HD Road King in 2014 for £11,000. The original buyer took a hell of a hit. Always buy 'nearly new' for the best deals. HD's though........just not worth the money.
HD famous for converting fuel to noise without the byproduct of HP
EXACTLY!
Harley has effectively put out of business all Japanese cruisers and in the mid-west 90+percent of all motorcycles on the road are Harley. You all need to get your facts straight. There are ups and downs and even the auto industry is down.
Wow, you sound so original.
How many of you haters are going to use that line...really🙄
I'll take torque over horsepower any day.
I have a 2017 Triumph Bonneville Bobber and love it! The torque is amazing
I have a 1975 Triumph Bonneville Bobber and the torque is amazing.
Very good, concise video explaining this situation.
I'm definitely in your "young Triumph owner" category. I knew I wanted a 600 sport bike once I got my first job out of college. A little less than a year later, I got a 2008 Daytona 675. I like that it offered something different than it's Japanese competitors. Three years later I picked up another Daytona, a 2010 SE. After another couple of years, I bought a dedicated track bike and decided to get something a little different for the street. I debated Monsters, Buells, vintage Japanese, but NEVER a Harley... In the end, I stayed brand loyal, picked up a 2016 Thruxton R for a 30th birthday present, and have zero regrets!
All of that said, I do hope that Harley will make the new line of bikes they've teased over the last couple of years. I find them all very fascinating. These are the kind of Harleys that people my age would actually want to own. Why they just keep running back to the same tired models that no new customers want is far beyond me.
I built androad a 1955 Triump 650 (tiger 110) no battery (magneto & alternator) for almost 15 years year round. Loved it... Great heartbeat!
I bought my first Harley a 1942 45 flat head back in 1955 when I was 14. So, I am one of those old guys, almost 80, that remembers the past and am an old school guy. Much of the problems with building motorcycles now is government regulations. You can not build a simple motorcycle. It has to have water cooling and be controlled by a computer to keep emissions down.
My son built his own bike, from the frame up and put in an S&S engine. He got what He wanted. My current motorcycle is a 99 Harley Softail Custom which I really like and will probably be my last. I rode an 84 Iron head Sportster for 23 years. I have had a few other brands in between, but still like Harleys, at least until they became computerized conglomerations that the average guy can not work on without a myriad of special tools.
I have always done most of my own maintenance. I love simplicity. I loved the old Triumph scramblers. The new ones are to hi tech along with everything else. I do have a flip phone and a computer that I am typing on. So I have come a long ways baby. But, I am not buying another motorcycle without a carb.
When the ignition module went south in my Sportster I installed a breaker plate and points and condenser and the coil and plugs. It ran just fine and I could fix it.
But, us old school guys are a dying breed and I feel the pain of the bike manufacturers. Harley's success went to their heads, and it is going to come back to bite them.
Good times do not last forever. People will only put up with their arrogance for so long. Times have changed and they are about to come down off the mountain in to the valley. People are no longer standing in line to pay extra to get the next bike that comes in. Those days are past and they are going to have to realize that pretty soon. I could not even give them any advice because I do not see a future for a company that will die with the people they served. Us old school guys that started with Harleys long ago. We had a choice. Harley, Indian, or Triumph.
i wont buy nothing later then '79! after that everything went wrong. and thats it. any 2 stroke or Z or Gs from that era is cool. after that its goiing to be a risk
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with us, appreciate it.
My worry isn't so much HD dieing but motorcycling in general declining - but they're is plenty of hope for brands that go with the times and make bikes that are fun to ride and safe to use.
Riding is amazing though and I applaud companies who make it interesting for younger riders!
Replacing an ignition module with points is rediculous, I ripped out the crappy points in my old car and its way better now.
Trouble is...you CAN build a simple motorcycle. In the UK and Europe, ABS is now required. Fuel injection too to pass emissions...but nothing else needs to be complex. these systems can also be cheap, simple and reliable. Ask the guys building the new Royal Enfields in India how they manage. But they do. They have tooled up, and produce a brand new motorcycle with no frills, fancy throttle modes, gear indicators or traction control. they also sell it at £5400 in the UK. A price which would get you a used Sportster or worn out old big twin. One that would get you paying '£13 every time you took it into London as it won't meet current legislation. Harley don't need to make everything complex....but they MUST bring their products up to spec or drop the prices. If I want a new Sportster...I expect twin discs and 4 pot calipers, I expect adjustable shocks, I would expect LED lights...and I would expect wiring tucked away rpoperlym quality chrome and components put in sensible places. Maybe go for broke and include adjustable span levers, air adjustable forks and USB sockets for the kids to charge their toys on. Buy any Japanese bike, and these things are expected...and fitted as standard. Harley can sell nostalgia.....but it needs to be backed up by a product that can stand up to scrutiny.
I'm in my 20s and own 3 triumphs they're all older bikes early 2000s but I absolutely love them
Nice one ..
@John Small I'm only 27 gimme a break lol first bike was a 1977 Suzuki gs550
I literally rode past a Harley dealership today... on my '82 Yamaha xs650.... (a Triumph killer ) and at the light, overheard a couple Harley riders complaining about the outrageous price for a backrest pad. I felt sorry for them.
I explained the downfall of Harley Davidson to my fiancé in 10 seconds. Went to their website and found the cheapest bike then searched for the Honda Rebel 500 price. She audibly gasped at the outrageous price difference.
Yes, the Rebel has the best price/performance ratio among the cruisers. And also looks great. For a ten years old 883 I would have to pay 6 grand more with worse equipment and performance (in Europe). Um nope. Only because of the sound I do not pay almost double.
@@urbanstreet_4282 Gotta say, the Rebel will not win any beauty contests, the Harley is much better looking. The rebel will also run forever and will be more fun to ride than the chunky Harley.
I've been shopping for a first bike for some time now and my experience has been 100% in agreement with this video. I've ruled out Harley and am looking closely at a Triumph.
What did ya get?
90 percent of Harley's are still on the road, the other 10 percent made it home
Now that was funny!
I like that one
The difference between a Harley and a Hoover is on the Hoover the Dirtbag rides on the bottom side
peter will PERFECT
Let's be fair. Most of the reliability problems, dripping oil, and general shit quality issues were when the golf cart company owned HD from '69 through '81, when the Davidsons bought it back and turned it into a clothing company with a sideline in motorcycles. Just goes to show, fuck your customers over once and they never forget.
Great article! I too have never owned a HD but I am on my second TRIUMP a Tiger 1200 and love it, my first Triumph was the Trophy SE it got awesome mileage with the speed triple engine. ! Had a Moto Guzzi California cruiser in between just to try something different but ended up back with Triumph..... CHEERS!
Harley Davidson was always my dream when I was young....hearing and seeing what s happening to Harley makes me sad, but its happening, they are overpriced and outgunned everywhere in the world, and that's what they did not think about... Harley is not worth the money you spend...what is an extra in their already overpriced bikes, it is standard and included in the price on other brands....
While I agree, I found that Harley touring bikes have better build quality than their direct competitors which is only Kawasaki, Yamaha , and Indian. They are not that much more expensive either, and have a lot of aftermarket support. I owned a Vulcan of Voyager 1700 for 60,000 miles , and have test ridden both Indian and Yamaha touring bikes. I chose the Road Glide to replace my Voyager and am happy with the choice . Now, for those who aren't into V-twin touring bikes, there are bikes like the Goldwing and BMW to chose from.
James Scicluna what kind of car do you drive
@@Dave-sw2dm you have to consider from a European Customer's point of view of a Harley, we do not have the customer care and parts reliability as in the United States....the Japanese have their factories in Europe and parts are ridiculously available while Harley Parts are expensive here, and not the mention availability....In comparison I prefer the Harley and will always be a faithful lover of the brand, that's for sure, and whatever it takes I will one day buy one, but at the moment I have to enjoy the Honda which I have, until I ll buy another bike....which obviously the choice will be a Harley Davidson.
That was fantastic! Well written and to the point! And yes, I'm in the EXACT SAME BOAT!! I looked at HD but then went to look at a Triumph. And as much as , like you, I would love a Harley, Triumph has it in spades. The only thing Triumph needs to do is up their dealer presents a little more. Not a lot, but I'm in a city and still 150kms from a dealer. Love the Lightning III and will straddle one VERY soon i hope. BTW, I'm 65 and still at it!! Well done folks, loved the vid!!!
Thanks! I appreciate that. 65 is the new 45 so you have plenty of riding left. Enjoy that Triumph.
Most importantly, they should have done all that 20 years ago when they were on top of the world, like any visionary company, not while they are on their decline like now.
Totally agree.
yes he who is not moving forward is moving backward.killed off anything interesting Buell Vrod XR1200
I've been riding Triumph for many years and can definitely say I'll never purchase a Harley. Overpriced, under powered, and cheesy "bad boy" image marketing is all Harley offers.
The real boys rode Triumph!
I have a 2015 Kawasaki KLR-650 dual sport and 2018 BMW K1600 GTL. Harley Davidson does absolutely nothing for me!
I quit riding motorcycles many years ago, but my first two were both Triumph, back in the early 1970's. Today's offerings look as good, and I'm sure have even better performance and reliability. I can't figure out, though, why they use "Rocket 3" as the name for their monster triple. That was a BSA marque; why not use "Trident"?
@@DeereX748 the Trident name had already been used on early naked Hinkley 750 and 900. So possibly why.
And besides, doesn't Rocket III sound better? Particularly as it goes like one?!
Triumph owned BSA so the Rocket 3 (And I proudly own one) is a Triumph brand name. The Trident name used elsewhere works better for that particular bike. Triumph make good bikes, my neighbours grandson turned up the other day on his Triumph 675 and it was good to see a young new rider on a Triumph.
"A t-shirt company that sells motorcycles" Seriously, I wrote a paper when I was at uni about how HD is the only motorcycle brand that can get away with making own branded sausages. You've hit the nail on the head with the problems with HD, many people like the bikes (when Low Rider S prices dip below 10k I'll be the first one in line) but hate everything else. The dealers I've been to have always tried to up sell the life style element, saying things like "you'll join a brotherhood" or "Harley Davidson is a religion". Thats when they actually talk to you as 2/3 times the sales guy doesnt even acknowledge my existence. Then theres the owners. Believe it or not the nice ones I've met are the 1% crowd. The "Sons of Accounting" or the "Hells Dentists" types usually scoff at my Triumph Scrambler 1200 saying I should get a real bike. I agree with what you said, HD needs to make good value for money if they want to attract a new customer base. The newer riders wouldnt be caught dead at Sturgis, and we certainly dont care about "Heritage" or "Murican made" as much as good value.
'Fer sure. Recently met a fellow in a local bar popular with bikers, that captures the problem. When the guy saw my helmet, he asked what I was riding. And when I said it was nuthin' fancy, just an old airhead Beemer, it was like I'd just pushed a button, and he instantly launched into a spiel about "Harley's the only bike for him, they're 'Murikin, the best bike...yada, yada!"
On the one hand, such obsessive 'brand loyalty' is a marketers dream, but on the other, this guy was 'older' and retired, and riding a 25 year old Road Glide, that'll likely be the last bike he'll ever own. And most of the younger blue collar guys in my neck o' the woods are lucky to even find work, much less afford a new HD. Though they'll still wear a Harley t-shirt, and sport the mandatory HD logo on the back of their used Civic or pickem-up!
Ha!,"you'll join a brotherhood",I am not in the "Brotherhood" on my 2017 Harley Night Rod Special,although my bike is now getting a lot of looks due to the discontinuation of the V Rod.
Serious problem that you don’t care about’murican made’
I’ve got the new S. You’re not getting one for less than 10. I’ve had it leaned pretty fuckin far. ABS on it saved me (and it) twice. I can’t conceive getting off the line any faster. The new inverted front end is incredible in the bends hauling ass. I can see 16k MAYBE but I’ve no regrets on what I paid. I thought about a Speed Triple RS at 16.5k but figured the LRS to suit my 30 year old, father life more. TBH I think I just need both. I’ll never get rid of this bike. I’ll only add to it. If it stays reliable, I wouldn’t be opposed to another new Harley. First bike. Never owned an old Harley but I own a new one and it makes me smile like a mother fucker at all times.
@@MrMann-gt1eh Thinking of building an older Dyna with an S&S kit or similar but mainly interested in the suspension and the new chassis being supposedly better.
"If it's fast and reasonably priced"
Harley: "Sorry, I don't speak *Commie* "
I picked up a Sportster for $2500. Grinded and brushed rust off then polished the chrome. I'm refilling the fork oil today and will start at the tank and work through the carburator next weekend. RUclips is my resource and a street parking spot is my shop. I wanted a bike and never dreamed it would be a Harley. 1st bike and a fun project I'm not afraid to wrench on.
I'm a fairly new rider (1 year) and I've always been more biased towards Japanese brands for their reliability, but I saw a HD 1200 Custom for the first time, parked in front of my house yesterday, and I must admit I was smitten. Such a graceful vehicle, with the right dimensions, not too big, and so elegant! I won't diss HD anymore, I love V-twins they are my favorite engine configuration so far, although I have yet to try a triple. In short, I think HD has some winners in their line-up (the V-ROD has to be the best-looking cruiser I've ever seen) so to each their own. Now, if I can get my neighbor to let me ride it...
I brought a used Harley-Davidson Switchback, they say, you are supposed to test drive. No they drove it the trailer and got it home. Took it off the trailer and guess, it had the worst vibrations in the steering. I try to take it back, but they wouldn’t do. It sat in the garage almost 4 years. Not because of the problems it has, because I had gotten cancer and it destroyed my hip. I appeal to Harley-Davidson of Fargo to take it back, they won’t. They are worst bunch of screw ups, that I ever dealt with.
sadly, that's on you brother. not their problem. you should have test rode it.
I’m probably the guy you talked about on his last bike. Came of age in the 70s. Had small KZ100, Yamaha 400 and street Suzuki GS 450L. Harley’s back then were, well, not good.
Gave up riding for decades. When I decided to man up again I went with HD. I promised my mom I wouldn’t ride again while she was alive and I honored that promise.
I took my inheritance and bought a 2008 Softail Custom Anniversary Edition. Copper and Vivid Black. Beautiful. And it’s true. I spent a gazillion dollars on helmets, saddle bags, jackets, big shields etc. The bike is still nice, and I’ll run it until I can’t. Once you are in your 60s the legs don’t like holding up 700
Lbs of stuff if your shoes hit something slippery.
My brother had a 73 Bonneville. I didn’t get it then. But I sure do now.
I purchased a Harley Dyna Wide Glide from a dealer in 1998. I loved that bike and rode it from coast to coast, went camping on it, etc. I had just turned 30 years old. I sold it 5 years later when I grew tired of the corporate world (and took a significant pay cut) and a few years later got into dual sports, also camping on them. My military injuries got too bad and I wanted a shorter bike, so decided to go back to a Harley, and opted for the 883. I wanted to beef up the suspension, get a big sissy bar to strap my backpack to and go camping. I was not interested in single tracks, just forest service roads and the like.
When I went to the dealer to get the bike, they tried to upsell me on a bigger bike, but I told them if they were not willing to sell me a Sportster 883, then I would go elsewhere to buy one. When I was informed it was a girl's bike, I informed him that it is the only Harley that has been in production since 1959 and those guys that used to live on them were certainly not girls. He shut up and I bought the bike for $9,200, out the door. I have been happy with it and my knees, hip and back like it a lot better.
That would have been the last time I would have visited a HD dealership after some BS experience like that. The whole biker culture in the USA started on 500-750CC bikes.
Haw could any dealer say it's a girl's bike? First of all they r killing a sale n second that's derogatory to women AND u. Motorcycling is for is all.
When someone tells me my Sportster is a girl's bike my answer is "Oh, Evil Knievel was a girl?".
@@khaccanhle1930 … I remember reading about the outlaw bikers in the 1960's preferring Sportsters for there quick take offs.
Hahaha "even if it did look like a fly" got me.
I am from India & I once dreamed of owning a Harley Davidson myself. I changed my mind as soon as I spoke with a few Harley owners in my circle and rode a few myself. The initial rush that you get from moment you get in the rider seat, to ignition and then hitting the 2nd/3rd gear....things begin to fall apart shortly after. Once you get over the awe of being in the presence of a HoG it's an extremely underwhelming experience. The astronomically high pricing doesn't make things better. I have ridden the Bonneville and India's very own Royal Enfield, and I think those choices are far more practical as opposed to buying a Harley.
Harley-davidson : "Cosplay for Dads"
Haha,
My Grandad wants to know your location.
How hard was it to hold yourself from titling this "Harley fails while triumph triumphs"
That would have been a bit too much methinks.
I'm 71, started riding when I was 19 (do the math). I never really liked Harleys, either the ones from back then or the more recent examples. When my cousin got a Harley back then, I said "Huh??" All time favorite bike: Dunstall Norton Commando. Feathery light. Powerful for the day. Handled great. Sounded even better. So here's one old guy who doesn't understand the HD fascination.
BTW: Current bikes: 1985 Honda 650 Nighthawk, 1995 Kawasaki Concours 1000. Old bikes for an old fart.
You were always just ahead of the curve, I suppose. Being a 'youngster' at 25, you seem to have had the same viewpoint as people in my age-group do to harley owners. The one person I know in my age group who got a harley, every one of us had the same response... "huh??". Why? My Honda CBR600r, which is the lowest-grade super-sport honda offers and at a fraction of a cost of your harley is more performant. Just, why? And if you want a cruiser for the sake of cruising and you aren't looking for max performance, no problem, just look at your other options and save literally thousands of dollars and get a better performing bike.
A friend had one with a combat engine ( high compression ) great bike but a b1tch to kick over..
dumbest thing i ever did was get rid of my 82 nighthawk. best bike ever, not the fastest but it would go, comfortable but damn reliable
I have complained publicly a few times about the “snooty kiss my butt arrogant attitude” of Harley dealers but... today I was impressed! I got a new back tire for my Ultra Classic and they didn’t charge me extra for the install, they washed my bike w no extra charge, the service rep went out of his way to be friendly. I actually ended up talking to a floor sales person, a greeter and a parts guy too...they were all friendly and succeeded in tightening up my bond w Harley and their dealership. Thank you Bumpus Harley in Murfreesboro TN. Great job!
You hear horror stories out there but my local dealer is pretty nice too. Maybe the comments sections in these videos is getting noticed.
bought my first Triumph 3 years ago. after owning most brands out there, yes a harley too. the triumph is an outstanding bike. i chose the trophy se 1215cc. narrowed my choice down to the ducati or triumph. the ducatis' steep price and a great deal on leftover trophy made my choice easier. i was very fond of my 04 victory vegas, a v twin with power, handling and comfort.
Riders don't abandon Harley Davidson. Harley Davidson abandons riders. Sometimes a piece at a time while on the road. So far I've seen those bikes shake lose a head light bezel, a kick stand, a gear shift linkage nut, a starter button and an old lady. There isn't enough locktite to keep them together.
My first ride on a Harley and I watched the jam nut back off the throttle adjustment cable. I gained cruise control halfway through the ride when I lost all the return on my throttle.
Peter Davis yeah a few years ago I dropped my bike on that side I've had permanent cruise control since. I prefer it that way! Didn't cost anything!
I live in Norway and here a new Iron 883 costs more than a Triumph Street Triple RS and over 5000usd more than a Street Twin...
Holy cow! Thanks for sharing.
I live in Japan and it's the same. A bonneville t100 is about 12k usd, the street triple is 9999, an iron 883? 15. Sportster is the same, with the custom just a little more.
andypants1000 yeah it’s insane because you get next to nothing on the iron 883 while a much cheaper triumph street twin comes well equipped and imo much better fit and finish.
Harley's future is a pink electric bike with wifi for traveling between safe spaces.
Yep else where they call those, Mobility Scooters.
That's an odd description of a Lark scooter.
Not just Harley
Typical D-Bag boomer comment. Many of us Millennials and Gen Z are tried and true gun toting republicans that love God and don't ask for help from nobody. BUT we will never buy an HD because the only people who can afford them are boomers and the only people they appeal to are boomers. If a real bike makes only 75 horsepower and cost 15 grand I will gladly buy a fake bike.
@@Kevin24Seven Ouch.
Why all the hating on boomers?
All the boomers I know left school and went right to work building lives, buying homes and saving up to send kids to tech school and college. They became teachers, firemen, policemen, mail carriers, some opened businesses like plumbing and heating, carpenters, electicians. They worked hard, put money into the system. Of the 552 from my graduaing class only two became dbags. They both died young of drug abuse.
6:26 this Triumph your sitting on looks sick! Proper style
You hit the nail on the head with this report. After ownership of a custom soft-tail, followed by a Ultra Classic full bagger walking into various dealerships I was pretty much ignored for a good half hour while viewing the current stock. Maybe the fact I don’t have a beard or a traditional tough man look may have contributed to this. Even if I had been approached the chances of buying a new HD was slim. I found the brand had not moved on in the last 20 or so years in looks, handling and price. I sold my Ultra privately and purchased a Ducati MultiStrada something that got me excited to ride again!
The Multistrada is a big step up in performance from a Harley. Enjoy your new ride!
I left Harley for Triumph a few years ago.
I sold my Harley for a Triumph and never looked back in fact I’m on my second triumph n will never sell it ..
Davyboy Colon sold my fourth harley for my nth ? Triumph. Im 67 and couldnt even push the super glide around in my garage. The 2005 bonne has more grunt than the 1200 skirtster i had.
Can’t beat that Thai bike heritage.
HD bikes giving you yesterdays technology today at tomorrows imaginary prices. I do not get them, loved by middle managers who want to take part in some sort of bad boy cosplay at the weekend. Born to be mild.
I predict soon to bought out by a Chinese businessman.
Hope not,, Chinese Harley will make that tinny sound.. like an old Kawasaki 500,,
I learned a very long time ago what Harley really sells is a DIY starter kit to ride, putt around on, while you figure out what you really want. Then You build it. I had a couple back when then I went back to Triumphs and the new 2020 Rocket III is on my next list it's vastly improved smaller lighter and a lot more engine than previous models 2500CC 165 Hp 170 pounds of torque that kicks in quick and stays there
No way dude, what they sell is the ultimate wet dream. At least in my country, the 883 is sold by at least 4 years worth of minimum wage!
The way I see, if I were to get one, I would have 3 options. Either I take a loan and spend the next 12 years paying it off, sell my inherited house or give my retirement a farewell.
Professional grade journalism. Strong insights and terrific commentary. More, please.