You didn't have the "Use old type chart" button ticked on that attack type coverage thing... Dragon hits Togekiss for neutral damage before gen 6. So you'd really only not be able to hit Skarmory for neutral damage with only ground and dragon attacking moves. And levitating Bronzongs/Bronzors
I was hoping to see a comment pointing this out. People ran Fire Fang, or even Flamethrower or Fire Blast to achieve that perfect coverage in Gens 4 and 5. Rock moves aren’t very useful against Bronzong.
In order to maximize fairness surrounding experience gained by doing playthroughs, re: @9:15, you should simply do one button input for all 493 Pokemon at a time. then continue every run one input at a time until they have all finished the game.
I mean... Pokémon is already a game about getting animals to fight each other for fun and profit. Literally using one as a weapon just seems like the same thing but with fewer steps.
I prefer runs where the pokemon don't evolve. It gives a more complete look at each game, it lets fully evolve pokemon clock in with times unimpeded by their lower stages, and it can lead to coming up with interesting solutions for completing the game with lower stage pokemon that can change the way you approach playing the game overall. We saw something like this when Scott ran the baby pokemon in pokemon Crystal, discovering movepools can make or break a pokemon in gen 2 much more than stats can. There are also some lesser reasons why I prefer the non-evolving styel, but I think these three points are the most relevant.
18:20 only relevant for gen 6 onwards for Togekiss Also be careful because that calculator doesn't account for Levitate for Pokemon like Bronzor/Bronzong which seem to always have it on opponents' teams.
As someone who may or may not have been old enough to be in college when leaks from Japan of these then upcoming games were flooding the English speaking internet back then…there was indeed a brief period of time where this exact potential Sharpedo evolution theory was floated.
I feel I've said it before, but the reason Buneary starts with 0 friendship is because rabbits are notoriously difficult to gain their trust. They're skittish little primadonnas.
On the sixteenth day of Christmas, Scott’s Thoughts gave to me… Sixteen evolution tests, Fifteen Kanto kaiju, Fourteen starter redos, Thirteen rare Normal girls, Twelve bear v bull fights, Eleven Gen 1 backports, Ten pounds per pink puff, Nine resists when evolved, Eight Belly Drum badges, Seven years with Psywave, Six slow squad solos, Five mid starter flings! Four Eevee runs, Three years post redo, Two Grass/Ice types, And a Hitmontop in Gen 3!
I used to have a German Shepherd named Diesel, he was practically twice my body mass - not because he was overweight and nor was I skinny. Absolute best boy, smartest dog I've ever known (recognised people and locations better than I did; could open doors by using his mouth on the door handle)... And yes, he would sometimes walk around with a teddy bear hanging out the side of his mouth.
I think the idea of Garchomp being the friendliest is just adorable It's like how sharks in real life aren't bloodthirsty creatures They're just fishes vibing in the ocean and they investigate by biting Garchomp is just a landshark who wants a hug but his rough skin makes it tough But if Cynthia can love it without worry anyone can Hug your Garchomp folks Tell him you love him
I actually like that you played the entire game as garchomp second, despite it going against your convention. The opportunity to at least somewhat optimize the full-garchomp run means its time more accurately reflects its true capabilities, which I'd argue makes for a more insightful comparison in determining the extent to which starting fully evolved affects a run. It reduces the impact of player error, and I think minimizing confounding factors is especially important for an initial comparison like this.
Incredible video. I believe that doing pokenon fully evolved from the beginning rather than evolution runs make much more of a difference for stone evolution and especially pokemon from Gens 1 and two. After that fully evolved pokemon have much more fleshed out move pools. Sub 2 hour was hype to see. Stay awesome Scott
I fucking love december so much more because of daily december. I usually watch all videos immediately but during daily December, I like saving up a few and watching them while I work. I completely understand if it isnt sustainable in the future since you put so much work into it but I really do love it while the work is manageable
i actually didn't know that the evolution playthroughs were meant to be the official rankings. i assumed it was just a casual way to learn the game at first and Pokemon would be reranked later without a massive handicap.
Personally, I love runs with evolution. Given that one way of thinking of these runs is as a sort of alternate world with different starters, it feels fitting to me that these runs involve evolution and weaker forms. I can see the argument that these runs are less satisfying than starting with a fully evolved Pokemon and curb stomping the game, I find the power boost from a weaker Pokemon to a stronger that comes with evolution just as if not moreso exciting. I love both, and I'm happy this channel has both!
Didn't watch yet (1minute, the explanation) and thats what I understood from the title. I know you have so much to do to complete, but I am hyped by this new concept. It doesn't mean that you need to ALWAYS compare, but I just like the THINKING, this little question asked before to start, out of the box
Alright, Scott, you've done it. I never played Platinum as a teen, and had been 'saving' watching your Platinum videos until I had gotten the chance to experience it firsthand. However, I really want to hear your thoughts on this. So I'm sitting down to play Platinum right now, and I'll be back to watch this in a few days. Sorry about the click off of the video at less than 2 minutes in, but hoping I make up for the algo loss with a like and a comment 😉
18:28 This is a bit confusing. Your dragon ground moves give you neutral coverage against everything except Skarmory. The tool you're using has Togekiss as "no effect" because it's a fairy type in gen 6 and beyond. In this run, you didn't need a rock move for the neutral coverage. But it helps for super effective coverage.
@@Bnoopy True, but flying and rock don't help for Bronzong either. I guess you would have to add a fire or fighting move for truly neutral coverage against everything.
Why every other video there's an instance where I clearly see Scott giggling while script reading and having to check the somehow suggestive wording describing the effects of insufficient PP?!? 😂😂
So as a fan of Garchomp I am pleased with these results. To advise on the followup run later there are 2 overall tips. One is having fire fang over aerial ace for the bronzor line. Earthquake and Dragon claw are good enough for everything else when paired with sword dance. Second is going with an Adamant nature for these reasons. First is that gible is quite slow and to avoid underspeeding things like mars zubat you should avoid a speed lowering nature. Second is that as far as I can tell you never need your special attack since you never use a special move so lowering it does not matter. Third is that you are probably pushing the level lower which makes speed thresholds closer for things like Weavile and Crobat who you really don’t want to potentially underspeed because of taking Cyrus at a lower level with a speed lowering nature.
5:00 Gen 4 does test rolls for damage before move selection, right? If so, that means Onyx' Attack stat is so bad that even with STAB Rock Throw could not deal 6 damage to Gibble. They really did the rock snake dirty.
I love how lobsided Gabite's stats are, along with the stats that it gains during evolutions. All three forms feel different from each other, and give you what you were craving during the last evolution. Even so, Gabite doesn't feel lacking for only having physical attack. It hits hard so you don't mind its worse stats, until you start fighting higher evolutions.
I didn't doubt for a second that Garchomp would get the best time in Platinum. Really interesting to see the differences between both approaches: starting fully evolved or evolving through the game, and how, starting fully evolved, Garchomp struggled a little more against both Candice and Cyrus in the distortion world because it was at a lower level. Also, I can't wait for the HG/SS runs. I wonder if he might do re-runs with the Johto starters in the remakes to see how good they are after the physical/special split. I strongly believe if Feraligatr managed to get the best time in Crystal, it'd completely tear through HG. Now it gets better physical coverage, and the elemental punches aren't available in the Goldenrod department store anymore, but Gatr makes up for it by learning Ice fang via level up. Typhlosion might suffer a little, precisely because most of its coverage is now physical, and it can't get thunder punch no more from the department store. I mean, it could get the fire blast tm, which might be useful against Whitney. Who knows. All I know is that Feraligatr would only struggle against the now Intimidate Gyarados on Claire's and Lance's teams and Red at the very end of the game if it can't outspeed Pikachu. Other than that, it should absolutely crush this game.
One interesting part of Platinum is that while Earthquake and Return are amazing moves that are available very early and Substitute can be found before Fantina it means that teaching all of these moves leaves only one move to damage her levitating ghosts. So holding back on teaching Return and/or EQ until you beat Fantina should be a consideration
Starting to get flashbacks to last year when Scott started to mention Platinum a lot and on the 24th we got the first Platinum run, this time it's with Heart Gold, good chances in a week and a half we will get Gen 2 remakes but would feel pretty early to start another project
I have wanted you to do one of these final stage vs evolving the same line vs videos for a while! I would also love to watch a vs video of a regular pokemon vs the same pokemon, but with pokerus. I think that would be a super cool comparison!
Gible's low evolution level was the saving grace of my monotype dragon run of Drayano's Sacred Gold. Gabite allowed me to beat Whitneys gym while only going 2 levels above the level cap and set the stage for the absolute stomp of the post-Whitney game.
Scott, I think you should relying on aerial ace so much, it's quite a weak move and it seems you get seduced into the trap of it not being able to miss instead of using much more powerful moves like dragon claw or earthquake. That said, this was a very interesting comparison video! Would be interesting to see how low Garchomp's time can go with better rare candy/item usage, an adamant nature, etc.
On the sixteenth day of December, Scott's Thoughts gave to me: The Land shark that overshadows Flygon Godzilla destroyed by a punch The best starter trio Three motherly pokemon The Giants of Gen One A deer and a giraffe The two pink blob matchup The Anubis dog herself A big cuddly boy in Kanto Two Airlane Dragon Pokemon Three Bulky Normal Types The Gen I Middle Stages An OP Eevee in Yellow An OP Pikachu in Yellow A slow level up group ice tree And the slowest hitmon brother
Sadly, Scott, going to have to confirm something for you - Skuntank, from all my using it in Diamond, is an inherently frustrating Pokemon. It has the same amazing type as Drapion, but its stats are poor and its movepool is extremely special leaning while its stats aren't. It's not the worst Pokemon ever and its version exclusive counterpart (Purugly) is irredeemably garbage even by comparison, but don't expect a lot out of it.
The reason HGSS Red got a level bump is because Cynthia's rematch team in Platinum (Lv74-78) was in direct and legitimate competition of dethroning the superboss from the seat of strongest/"best" trainer. So Red saw a +7 to every mon, going from 73-81 (averaging similar by level but being a less blowout team) to 80-88, so that even his weakest link was stronger than Cynthia's Garchomp (even if she still arguably has a better built team).
There's a reason he was the first ever banned pokemon which didn't have shadow tag Garchomp is just THAT guy... well, landshark I theorize a time under 1:40:00 is COMPLETELY possible, as long as player error is taken out of the picture. But it goes to show that even without being fully evolved from the start, he still competes with the legends
If older gen metagame development had been at the point of Gen 4 in generations before 4, Snorlax and Zapdos would have been banned in Gen 2 easily. Snorlax is straight up the best Pokemon in the game, like, overall, Mewtwo is number 2.
Before watching the run, I'd say it depends on which game you are playing. Like, in gen 1, starting with a stone evolution is horrible, but starting from base form and waiting for good moves changes rhings drastically. So the learnset changes things, also some typing changes (like, starting as a monotype and getting a second one, or completely change one of the 2 typings (like pupitar-tyranitar) may change some interactions
This specific type of solo run looks to be probably the most fascinating yet because it will sell hideously be so similar but so different between each different Pokémon. Do you think you’ll ever do this type of direct comparison between the different evolutions in the future?
Man, I was kinda hoping one day you might end up playing through the evolutionary lines on Yellow when you finally finished that game, since I'd find that more interesting than backports or Yellow disappearing entirely / being purely re-rankings. Hearing that you started playing evolutionary lines because it was a time saver and you worried you'd never get through what you wanted otherwise kinda makes me feel bad for hoping you'd do both.
I personally prefer the runs with evolutions because I'd consider the point of evolution for a Pokemon reflects its intended design as strongly as movepool, growth rate and base stats. Pokemon that are meant to be encountered later tend to have higher base stats at their final stage, but also higher evolution levels. And a game shortsightedly holding off an evolution method for later (eg Hoenn Water Stone) creates problems for Pokemon the same way that good TM coverage being held off does. Giving advantage to unevolving Pokemon is also fair game, as many of them are clearly not intended to be had at the start of the game and that would naturally reflect in their early game performance. It also shaves off like half of the potential runs, which matters compoundingly more the further into the series you go. Theoretically, if a game had every Pokemon that currently existed, doing entire evolutionary lines would be the difference between doing 1025 runs and ~570ish.
About coverage, the usual type to pair with dragon is fire. It has perfect coverage as steel mon are the only one to resist dragon before the fairy invasion as steel mon usually have low def Sp, even flamethrower is doing its job
Curious about Dragon rage and focus sash interaction. If a Bidoof has 40hp and is holding a focus sash, will dragon rage kill? Does it bypass the sash since it always does 40 damage, or will the sash save Bidoof as normal?
As some people said, this is one of the few times a pseudo legendary is good during the main game, if not the only one. That's due to dragon rage so Gible doesn't suffer due to being a Gible, while Gabite is gotten at level 24, getting a good stat distribution just when dragon rage stops carrying.
Scott’s working on his dad jokes because plot twist, his wife is pregnant and he’s going to be a dad and is going to make the announcement at the end of daily December!
On the Starly line being a menace, its like since generation 1 they had being working towards a redemption for the primary regional birds (then regressed in Gen 5 with Unfezant and massively overtuned in Gen 6 with Talonflame): Kanto: Pidgeot, from a gameplay standpoint why ever use this thing on your team over any other Flying type? Johto: Noctowl, has access to Hypnosis - kind of defensive; has its niche. Hoenn: Swellow, unassuming - until you realise Guts makes it a legitimate sweeper. (See link below*) Sinoh: Staraptor, Intimidate/Brave Bird/Close Combat... it feels like they were giving everything outside of setup to succeed - perhaps related to how Swellow turned out. *Aforementioned Swellow link, Level 27 Guts Swellow sweeps the Hoenn league: ruclips.net/video/VBuL0f8L1JU/видео.html
The dirty-named shark did live up to its name in the endgame. Arceus is going to be a very bizarre video. Sure, Extremekiller is going to be stupidly dominating at the end but it has a very unorthodox beginning where you have to use Punishment and Natural Gift as your initial attacking moves. I'd like to see you squeeze some use for Natural Gift as it's a one-use pick-your-Hidden Power.
wtf is Arceus' Platinum moveset even??? I'm looking at it, and I think Scott is also going to be perplexed. Not mad, per se, it has what it needs to do fine. Punishment is base 60 if the target hasn't boosted btw, but it's 5PP. however Return is obtained super early, and it's better to just slap it on Arceus immediately. the main issue is what moves to use at any particular point, but I think even bothering to go into the menu and use TMs is generally going to be a waste of time when Arceus is so strong, Return is STAB and will only continue to get stronger as the game goes on. Punishment will clear Fantina with no problems, no need to even teach Substitute. Earth Power should be on the set for Maylene's Lucario. Swords Dance may or may not be necessary but managing money to save for it seems like it could be a waste of time unless Intimidate is too concerning.
@@dvillines26 You don't need Punishment either, just Gravity and Earth Power. Granted, that will make Hypnosis more accurate and risk losing more time...
Yeaaah, Garchomp is stupid good. One of the best pokemon of gen 4. Barely debatable in my opinion. It would have struggled a bit more in Diamond and Pearl because Earthquake is acquired much later in the game. I also can't help but notice the way stats are displayed.. Just gorgeous.. I do have one nitpick really, and that would be the Held item. If somehow the item sprite could be shown next to the name, it'd be amazing. I say that because it took me a second to understand how Gible moved first against Cranidos, when you specifically said that Cranidos was faster. But maybe that's just me. I again emphasize on just how good the "format" as a whole is. Something rather rare for Pokemon videos, which is surprising considering how useful those infos are.
After playing Pokemon Red and Blue while using evolved.. I've played both normal and with fully evolved Pokemon at level 7 using the new flight glitch. There are some differences I've noticed. First obviously there are some stat boosts that are given to the already evolved Pokemon. Secondly, in most cases the moves are learned earlier by pre evolved Pokemon. Obviously the last bit would be TMS and HMS that can be learned. Some pre evolved Pokemon can't learn stuff like hyper beam.
Oh, happy to see this. I'm very curious what Pokémon would be better through evolving vs. just evolving throughout. Perhaps some stone evolutions? You know, get the moves/get them early, then evolve when you need?
Hey yo i appear as shellder in the credits now ! (formely gloom). Awesome video man been loving the daily december. Sooooo we betting HGSS Content next year :) ???
The Bronzor/Bronzong being a major annoyance to you makes me wonder how much you would appreciate a Mold Breaker Pokemon. Though now that I think about it, the Mold Breaker extra text would actually add up to a ton of time...
i think this line in particular in this game have a bias, since gible still gets dragon rage at level 7 and then still gets earthquake post gym 2. Those two significantly reduce early.mid game time for the first two stages imo, and since platinum has so many rare candies available getting to garchomp when gabite starts to fall off isnt as difficult as itd be in gens 2/3.
I wonder though how different this comparison would be for a line that doesn't get a fixed damage move. Having Dragon Rage as an early-game Delete button ignores the major difference in the offensive stats of the first versus last stage of this line. Haven't finished the video yet, so maybe you acknowledge this, but it seems like you should do this again with a different line.
I mean movesets heavily change this. Stone evolutions in the earlier games have way worse movesets after evolution than before so starting with a Pikachu just gives more options. Whether or not a pokemon is faster fully evolved is very line dependent.
@logansmith2703 That's the point of my comment. The evo vs. pre-evo comparison is ultimately about stats and moveset. But having a move that one-shots everything in the early game makes it so that the stat differences don't change how the two Pokemon play - just click Dragon Rage and win.
I think Garchomp would have been much better served with Crunch or Fire Fang in the place of Aerial Ace. The only pokemon that takes more damage from Aerial Ace than Earthquake or Dragon Claw is Heracross, and by the time they start appearing you've already got Swords Dance. (Also Crunch deals consistent neutral damage to the Bronzors/zongs)
18:24 fairy type not in gen 4 (only Bronzong-line in Sinnoh Pokedex) also there is a reason why Garchomp was the first non legendary Pokemon to be banned to ubers without shadow tag
When you play heartgold/soul silver make sure the date is jan 25th or something else like that for the fact certain dates in certain locations IE snowpoint city and Mount silver give diamond dust instead of hail when in battle
Gible is not as bad as you'd think because early Dragon Rage is busted. which makes the Garchomp line the only really good pseudo for a casual playthrough of its native game. Dragonite line, no, Salamence line TOO LATE but I guess you can use it for E4 & Champion, Hydreigon evolves post-game, Goodra just isn't that good, Jangmo-o comes quite late, Dreepy is hard to obtain and useless until it evolves and the final evolution is quite late, and I guess Baxcalibur is pretty solid but not as stat optimized or as good in terms of typing. in Platinum in particular with early Earthquake access, it's almost hard NOT to run Garchomp.
You didn't have the "Use old type chart" button ticked on that attack type coverage thing... Dragon hits Togekiss for neutral damage before gen 6. So you'd really only not be able to hit Skarmory for neutral damage with only ground and dragon attacking moves. And levitating Bronzongs/Bronzors
I was hoping to see a comment pointing this out.
People ran Fire Fang, or even Flamethrower or Fire Blast to achieve that perfect coverage in Gens 4 and 5. Rock moves aren’t very useful against Bronzong.
I was literally just googling to check, because I've called Scott out incorrectly on things that change by generation before 😂😂
In order to maximize fairness surrounding experience gained by doing playthroughs, re: @9:15, you should simply do one button input for all 493 Pokemon at a time. then continue every run one input at a time until they have all finished the game.
Oh lmao its u
All Scott would need is one Stockmagikarp for that. I'm sure it's up to the task.
Chess watching pokemon!?! My worlds collide
Now I'm just picturing a Gible swinging a Sandslash at things, with that poor thing screaming in terror.
I mean... Pokémon is already a game about getting animals to fight each other for fun and profit. Literally using one as a weapon just seems like the same thing but with fewer steps.
As it deserves, after the many troubles that thing gave Scott in yellow.
I prefer runs where the pokemon don't evolve. It gives a more complete look at each game, it lets fully evolve pokemon clock in with times unimpeded by their lower stages, and it can lead to coming up with interesting solutions for completing the game with lower stage pokemon that can change the way you approach playing the game overall. We saw something like this when Scott ran the baby pokemon in pokemon Crystal, discovering movepools can make or break a pokemon in gen 2 much more than stats can.
There are also some lesser reasons why I prefer the non-evolving styel, but I think these three points are the most relevant.
Mm likewise, but i get that platinum with /every/ mon is gonna be kinda a long journey
18:20 only relevant for gen 6 onwards for Togekiss
Also be careful because that calculator doesn't account for Levitate for Pokemon like Bronzor/Bronzong which seem to always have it on opponents' teams.
Togekiss is a Flying type and thus still immune to Ground.
@@crazychristopher1989 but not to Ground and Dragon wich is the point he is making
On today’s Solo Challenge: Scott jumps the shark. The LAND shark, that is.
I wonder if going into the Sinoh games anyone Garchomp was the generation 4 introduced evolution of Sharpedo.
As someone who may or may not have been old enough to be in college when leaks from Japan of these then upcoming games were flooding the English speaking internet back then…there was indeed a brief period of time where this exact potential Sharpedo evolution theory was floated.
The run I have been waiting for since you started this series. I made it to 40:54. And no Scott, YOU'RE INCREDIBLE!
I feel I've said it before, but the reason Buneary starts with 0 friendship is because rabbits are notoriously difficult to gain their trust. They're skittish little primadonnas.
On the sixteenth day of Christmas, Scott’s Thoughts gave to me…
Sixteen evolution tests,
Fifteen Kanto kaiju,
Fourteen starter redos,
Thirteen rare Normal girls,
Twelve bear v bull fights,
Eleven Gen 1 backports,
Ten pounds per pink puff,
Nine resists when evolved,
Eight Belly Drum badges,
Seven years with Psywave,
Six slow squad solos,
Five mid starter flings!
Four Eevee runs,
Three years post redo,
Two Grass/Ice types,
And a Hitmontop in Gen 3!
And a partridge in a pear tree
Realizing your attempt to cut down the videos you produce in order to hit every Pokémon might have backfired: The Video
Ooooooohhhhhhhh the idea of this video is so AWESOME!!!! Thanks Scott, you always make my birthday so much better.
Garchomp is one of those mean scary looking dog breeds that cant go to bed without wearing a cute onesie and its favorite stuffed animal
I used to have a German Shepherd named Diesel, he was practically twice my body mass - not because he was overweight and nor was I skinny. Absolute best boy, smartest dog I've ever known (recognised people and locations better than I did; could open doors by using his mouth on the door handle)...
And yes, he would sometimes walk around with a teddy bear hanging out the side of his mouth.
I think the idea of Garchomp being the friendliest is just adorable
It's like how sharks in real life aren't bloodthirsty creatures They're just fishes vibing in the ocean and they investigate by biting
Garchomp is just a landshark who wants a hug but his rough skin makes it tough
But if Cynthia can love it without worry anyone can
Hug your Garchomp folks
Tell him you love him
PSA: First check if he has Rough Skin
I actually like that you played the entire game as garchomp second, despite it going against your convention. The opportunity to at least somewhat optimize the full-garchomp run means its time more accurately reflects its true capabilities, which I'd argue makes for a more insightful comparison in determining the extent to which starting fully evolved affects a run. It reduces the impact of player error, and I think minimizing confounding factors is especially important for an initial comparison like this.
Incredible video. I believe that doing pokenon fully evolved from the beginning rather than evolution runs make much more of a difference for stone evolution and especially pokemon from Gens 1 and two. After that fully evolved pokemon have much more fleshed out move pools. Sub 2 hour was hype to see. Stay awesome Scott
I fucking love december so much more because of daily december. I usually watch all videos immediately but during daily December, I like saving up a few and watching them while I work. I completely understand if it isnt sustainable in the future since you put so much work into it but I really do love it while the work is manageable
I like this approach. Daily December is the perfect time to explore this
I feel like the garchomp line having high friendship just indicates that they're more loyal than any other pseudo legend.
"Wutchu talkin' 'bout, who love me?"
"The guy in here, man. And the guy in HERE. The Guy-ble."
"That says 'The Gibble'."
Hydreigon is a 3 headed menace known for being extremely violent Scott! ahahahhaa
Until you play Mystery Dungeon Gates to Infinity.
A step ahead of me. Or darn, I am 2 years behind schedule getting into this project. My stance, run lines. Thanks for uploading, happy to watch it!
i actually didn't know that the evolution playthroughs were meant to be the official rankings. i assumed it was just a casual way to learn the game at first and Pokemon would be reranked later without a massive handicap.
Practicing Dad jokes. Was that foreshadowing?!
Haha not yet
🗣️ I'M GLAD SOMEONE SAID IT CAUSE YOU KNOW HOW SCOTT GETS 👀🤣😅
I love you Scott, even if I'm too busy to comment and only listen to these in the background. I hope your holidays will and are going well.
Personally, I love runs with evolution. Given that one way of thinking of these runs is as a sort of alternate world with different starters, it feels fitting to me that these runs involve evolution and weaker forms. I can see the argument that these runs are less satisfying than starting with a fully evolved Pokemon and curb stomping the game, I find the power boost from a weaker Pokemon to a stronger that comes with evolution just as if not moreso exciting. I love both, and I'm happy this channel has both!
Didn't watch yet (1minute, the explanation) and thats what I understood from the title. I know you have so much to do to complete, but I am hyped by this new concept. It doesn't mean that you need to ALWAYS compare, but I just like the THINKING, this little question asked before to start, out of the box
@1:57 that is one of the most beautiful ways to show off a stat spread
6:35 Buneary and Lopunny are a fun case. Buneary HATES its trainer. But even a newly captured Lopunny loves you, with a base friendship of 140.
I have a completely rational and justified hatred for Garchomp's back sprite. It's so incredibly mediocre.
Alright, Scott, you've done it. I never played Platinum as a teen, and had been 'saving' watching your Platinum videos until I had gotten the chance to experience it firsthand. However, I really want to hear your thoughts on this. So I'm sitting down to play Platinum right now, and I'll be back to watch this in a few days. Sorry about the click off of the video at less than 2 minutes in, but hoping I make up for the algo loss with a like and a comment 😉
This is a really interesting idea for a solo run that I don't think I've seen before.
18:28 This is a bit confusing. Your dragon ground moves give you neutral coverage against everything except Skarmory. The tool you're using has Togekiss as "no effect" because it's a fairy type in gen 6 and beyond. In this run, you didn't need a rock move for the neutral coverage. But it helps for super effective coverage.
Neutral coverage before abilities. Dragon/Ground doesn't hit Bronzong neutrally for example
@@Bnoopy True, but flying and rock don't help for Bronzong either. I guess you would have to add a fire or fighting move for truly neutral coverage against everything.
@@BetzalelGanot Get the Heart Scale in the Oreburgh City heaps, then relearn Fire Fang.
Why every other video there's an instance where I clearly see Scott giggling while script reading and having to check the somehow suggestive wording describing the effects of insufficient PP?!? 😂😂
So as a fan of Garchomp I am pleased with these results. To advise on the followup run later there are 2 overall tips. One is having fire fang over aerial ace for the bronzor line. Earthquake and Dragon claw are good enough for everything else when paired with sword dance. Second is going with an Adamant nature for these reasons. First is that gible is quite slow and to avoid underspeeding things like mars zubat you should avoid a speed lowering nature. Second is that as far as I can tell you never need your special attack since you never use a special move so lowering it does not matter. Third is that you are probably pushing the level lower which makes speed thresholds closer for things like Weavile and Crobat who you really don’t want to potentially underspeed because of taking Cyrus at a lower level with a speed lowering nature.
5:00 Gen 4 does test rolls for damage before move selection, right? If so, that means Onyx' Attack stat is so bad that even with STAB Rock Throw could not deal 6 damage to Gibble. They really did the rock snake dirty.
Nice! I asked for this playthrough yesterday! Hope for a Mamoswine in the near future! I wanna see how you're going to handle the goat!
I love how lobsided Gabite's stats are, along with the stats that it gains during evolutions. All three forms feel different from each other, and give you what you were craving during the last evolution.
Even so, Gabite doesn't feel lacking for only having physical attack. It hits hard so you don't mind its worse stats, until you start fighting higher evolutions.
I didn't doubt for a second that Garchomp would get the best time in Platinum. Really interesting to see the differences between both approaches: starting fully evolved or evolving through the game, and how, starting fully evolved, Garchomp struggled a little more against both Candice and Cyrus in the distortion world because it was at a lower level.
Also, I can't wait for the HG/SS runs. I wonder if he might do re-runs with the Johto starters in the remakes to see how good they are after the physical/special split. I strongly believe if Feraligatr managed to get the best time in Crystal, it'd completely tear through HG. Now it gets better physical coverage, and the elemental punches aren't available in the Goldenrod department store anymore, but Gatr makes up for it by learning Ice fang via level up. Typhlosion might suffer a little, precisely because most of its coverage is now physical, and it can't get thunder punch no more from the department store. I mean, it could get the fire blast tm, which might be useful against Whitney. Who knows.
All I know is that Feraligatr would only struggle against the now Intimidate Gyarados on Claire's and Lance's teams and Red at the very end of the game if it can't outspeed Pikachu. Other than that, it should absolutely crush this game.
One interesting part of Platinum is that while Earthquake and Return are amazing moves that are available very early and Substitute can be found before Fantina it means that teaching all of these moves leaves only one move to damage her levitating ghosts. So holding back on teaching Return and/or EQ until you beat Fantina should be a consideration
Starting to get flashbacks to last year when Scott started to mention Platinum a lot and on the 24th we got the first Platinum run, this time it's with Heart Gold, good chances in a week and a half we will get Gen 2 remakes but would feel pretty early to start another project
I have wanted you to do one of these final stage vs evolving the same line vs videos for a while! I would also love to watch a vs video of a regular pokemon vs the same pokemon, but with pokerus. I think that would be a super cool comparison!
Gible's low evolution level was the saving grace of my monotype dragon run of Drayano's Sacred Gold.
Gabite allowed me to beat Whitneys gym while only going 2 levels above the level cap and set the stage for the absolute stomp of the post-Whitney game.
Scott, I think you should relying on aerial ace so much, it's quite a weak move and it seems you get seduced into the trap of it not being able to miss instead of using much more powerful moves like dragon claw or earthquake. That said, this was a very interesting comparison video! Would be interesting to see how low Garchomp's time can go with better rare candy/item usage, an adamant nature, etc.
On the sixteenth day of December, Scott's Thoughts gave to me:
The Land shark that overshadows Flygon
Godzilla destroyed by a punch
The best starter trio
Three motherly pokemon
The Giants of Gen One
A deer and a giraffe
The two pink blob matchup
The Anubis dog herself
A big cuddly boy in Kanto
Two Airlane Dragon Pokemon
Three Bulky Normal Types
The Gen I Middle Stages
An OP Eevee in Yellow
An OP Pikachu in Yellow
A slow level up group ice tree
And the slowest hitmon brother
Sadly, Scott, going to have to confirm something for you - Skuntank, from all my using it in Diamond, is an inherently frustrating Pokemon. It has the same amazing type as Drapion, but its stats are poor and its movepool is extremely special leaning while its stats aren't. It's not the worst Pokemon ever and its version exclusive counterpart (Purugly) is irredeemably garbage even by comparison, but don't expect a lot out of it.
The reason HGSS Red got a level bump is because Cynthia's rematch team in Platinum (Lv74-78) was in direct and legitimate competition of dethroning the superboss from the seat of strongest/"best" trainer. So Red saw a +7 to every mon, going from 73-81 (averaging similar by level but being a less blowout team) to 80-88, so that even his weakest link was stronger than Cynthia's Garchomp (even if she still arguably has a better built team).
There's a reason he was the first ever banned pokemon which didn't have shadow tag
Garchomp is just THAT guy... well, landshark
I theorize a time under 1:40:00 is COMPLETELY possible, as long as player error is taken out of the picture. But it goes to show that even without being fully evolved from the start, he still competes with the legends
If older gen metagame development had been at the point of Gen 4 in generations before 4, Snorlax and Zapdos would have been banned in Gen 2 easily. Snorlax is straight up the best Pokemon in the game, like, overall, Mewtwo is number 2.
@TheShinyFeraligatr Yeah, undoubtedly
Did it happen? Nope. So Garchomp still has the crown
Togekiss didn't resist Dragon in gen IV. That was the type chart as of gen VI.
I had to catch myself from going "What, no Professor Oak battle again?" because . . . you know, not Gen 1.
19:24 he forgets about levitate Bronzong. Never forget levitate Bronzong.
Before watching the run, I'd say it depends on which game you are playing.
Like, in gen 1, starting with a stone evolution is horrible, but starting from base form and waiting for good moves changes rhings drastically.
So the learnset changes things, also some typing changes (like, starting as a monotype and getting a second one, or completely change one of the 2 typings (like pupitar-tyranitar) may change some interactions
What does the text say at 23:28? It's behind the sprites.
But I love this format (ie fully evolved vs evolution line)
Also, change Surge tier to Volkner tier for gen 4.
This specific type of solo run looks to be probably the most fascinating yet because it will sell hideously be so similar but so different between each different Pokémon.
Do you think you’ll ever do this type of direct comparison between the different evolutions in the future?
Garchomp wrecked this game so fast I swear the gym leader music was restarting every 10 seconds
REALLY sprinted through that Dennis The Menace joke
Man, I was kinda hoping one day you might end up playing through the evolutionary lines on Yellow when you finally finished that game, since I'd find that more interesting than backports or Yellow disappearing entirely / being purely re-rankings. Hearing that you started playing evolutionary lines because it was a time saver and you worried you'd never get through what you wanted otherwise kinda makes me feel bad for hoping you'd do both.
Don't despair ;)
cant believe the rival used a version of the FEAR strat on you, thats hilarious.
I personally prefer the runs with evolutions because I'd consider the point of evolution for a Pokemon reflects its intended design as strongly as movepool, growth rate and base stats. Pokemon that are meant to be encountered later tend to have higher base stats at their final stage, but also higher evolution levels. And a game shortsightedly holding off an evolution method for later (eg Hoenn Water Stone) creates problems for Pokemon the same way that good TM coverage being held off does. Giving advantage to unevolving Pokemon is also fair game, as many of them are clearly not intended to be had at the start of the game and that would naturally reflect in their early game performance.
It also shaves off like half of the potential runs, which matters compoundingly more the further into the series you go. Theoretically, if a game had every Pokemon that currently existed, doing entire evolutionary lines would be the difference between doing 1025 runs and ~570ish.
"I'm working on my dad jokes" IS THIS A PARENTHOOD ANNOUNCEMENT
I'm calling it right now, we're gonna see Heartgold towards the end of Daily December
I can’t wait for you to start playing HeartGold on the channel!
;)
Let's go for my prediciton
Moveset
Earthquake
Crunch
Swords Dance
Dragon Claw
Tier : B
About coverage, the usual type to pair with dragon is fire.
It has perfect coverage as steel mon are the only one to resist dragon before the fairy invasion
as steel mon usually have low def Sp, even flamethrower is doing its job
Curious about Dragon rage and focus sash interaction. If a Bidoof has 40hp and is holding a focus sash, will dragon rage kill? Does it bypass the sash since it always does 40 damage, or will the sash save Bidoof as normal?
Looked it up. Focus Sash will prevent the KO.
As some people said, this is one of the few times a pseudo legendary is good during the main game, if not the only one.
That's due to dragon rage so Gible doesn't suffer due to being a Gible, while Gabite is gotten at level 24, getting a good stat distribution just when dragon rage stops carrying.
The game corner dratini in GSC has dragon rage
Scott’s working on his dad jokes because plot twist, his wife is pregnant and he’s going to be a dad and is going to make the announcement at the end of daily December!
On the Starly line being a menace, its like since generation 1 they had being working towards a redemption for the primary regional birds (then regressed in Gen 5 with Unfezant and massively overtuned in Gen 6 with Talonflame):
Kanto: Pidgeot, from a gameplay standpoint why ever use this thing on your team over any other Flying type?
Johto: Noctowl, has access to Hypnosis - kind of defensive; has its niche.
Hoenn: Swellow, unassuming - until you realise Guts makes it a legitimate sweeper. (See link below*)
Sinoh: Staraptor, Intimidate/Brave Bird/Close Combat... it feels like they were giving everything outside of setup to succeed - perhaps related to how Swellow turned out.
*Aforementioned Swellow link, Level 27 Guts Swellow sweeps the Hoenn league:
ruclips.net/video/VBuL0f8L1JU/видео.html
10:03 perfect run ends here for Gibble evolving run (34:23 for the straight Garchomp run), F in the chat Press F to pay respects
The dirty-named shark did live up to its name in the endgame.
Arceus is going to be a very bizarre video. Sure, Extremekiller is going to be stupidly dominating at the end but it has a very unorthodox beginning where you have to use Punishment and Natural Gift as your initial attacking moves.
I'd like to see you squeeze some use for Natural Gift as it's a one-use pick-your-Hidden Power.
wtf is Arceus' Platinum moveset even??? I'm looking at it, and I think Scott is also going to be perplexed. Not mad, per se, it has what it needs to do fine. Punishment is base 60 if the target hasn't boosted btw, but it's 5PP. however Return is obtained super early, and it's better to just slap it on Arceus immediately.
the main issue is what moves to use at any particular point, but I think even bothering to go into the menu and use TMs is generally going to be a waste of time when Arceus is so strong, Return is STAB and will only continue to get stronger as the game goes on.
Punishment will clear Fantina with no problems, no need to even teach Substitute. Earth Power should be on the set for Maylene's Lucario. Swords Dance may or may not be necessary but managing money to save for it seems like it could be a waste of time unless Intimidate is too concerning.
@@dvillines26 You don't need Punishment either, just Gravity and Earth Power. Granted, that will make Hypnosis more accurate and risk losing more time...
I like videos that don't have evolution, it makes a lot of interesting results like poliwag.
So it kinda sounds like Garchomp could just use candies to bring it back to parity with the evolved version (and maintain its lead) at any point.
Yeaaah, Garchomp is stupid good.
One of the best pokemon of gen 4. Barely debatable in my opinion.
It would have struggled a bit more in Diamond and Pearl because Earthquake is acquired
much later in the game.
I also can't help but notice the way stats are displayed..
Just gorgeous..
I do have one nitpick really, and that would be the Held item.
If somehow the item sprite could be shown next to the name, it'd be amazing.
I say that because it took me a second to understand how Gible moved first against Cranidos,
when you specifically said that Cranidos was faster. But maybe that's just me.
I again emphasize on just how good the "format" as a whole is.
Something rather rare for Pokemon videos, which is surprising
considering how useful those infos are.
After playing Pokemon Red and Blue while using evolved.. I've played both normal and with fully evolved Pokemon at level 7 using the new flight glitch.
There are some differences I've noticed.
First obviously there are some stat boosts that are given to the already evolved Pokemon.
Secondly, in most cases the moves are learned earlier by pre evolved Pokemon.
Obviously the last bit would be TMS and HMS that can be learned. Some pre evolved Pokemon can't learn stuff like hyper beam.
Are you gonna start doing round 2 for platinum at any point?
Oh, happy to see this.
I'm very curious what Pokémon would be better through evolving vs. just evolving throughout. Perhaps some stone evolutions? You know, get the moves/get them early, then evolve when you need?
@bobosmith101 stones are definitely the main beneficiary of evolving during a run. Otherwise they tend to be garbo.
Ultra sun and ultra moon feels like an insanely long game that punishes you for not training.
Arceus is gonna be funny, since it only starts with S-Toss, Cosmic Power, Natural Gift and Punishment (which only has 5 PP) xD
I’m just glad I’m not the only one who struggles with the stupid corner in wayward cave before EQ😅
I'm waiting for a Electivire vs Magmortar video 🤩
23:27 the text popping up behind the Pokemon made me chuckle a bit 😂
Hey yo i appear as shellder in the credits now ! (formely gloom). Awesome video man been loving the daily december. Sooooo we betting HGSS Content next year :) ???
Very interesting comparison video
Togekiss is normal type, not fairy, so dragon claw should be neutral, you should tick the old type effectiveness in the type coverage simulator :)
23:28 anyone have a clue what the note says? It is covered by gible and gabite.
You’re the man, Scott
The Bronzor/Bronzong being a major annoyance to you makes me wonder how much you would appreciate a Mold Breaker Pokemon. Though now that I think about it, the Mold Breaker extra text would actually add up to a ton of time...
i think this line in particular in this game have a bias, since gible still gets dragon rage at level 7 and then still gets earthquake post gym 2. Those two significantly reduce early.mid game time for the first two stages imo, and since platinum has so many rare candies available getting to garchomp when gabite starts to fall off isnt as difficult as itd be in gens 2/3.
I can’t remember but does platinum have the same weird feature where all trainers use random moves or is that changed from diamond and pearl?
Yay for the friendly, albeit not cuddly, flying landshark ❤
This is an interesting video idea, I feel like it's gonna be faster obviously with the final evolution but I'm l curious to know your take
I wonder though how different this comparison would be for a line that doesn't get a fixed damage move. Having Dragon Rage as an early-game Delete button ignores the major difference in the offensive stats of the first versus last stage of this line. Haven't finished the video yet, so maybe you acknowledge this, but it seems like you should do this again with a different line.
I mean movesets heavily change this. Stone evolutions in the earlier games have way worse movesets after evolution than before so starting with a Pikachu just gives more options.
Whether or not a pokemon is faster fully evolved is very line dependent.
@logansmith2703 That's the point of my comment. The evo vs. pre-evo comparison is ultimately about stats and moveset. But having a move that one-shots everything in the early game makes it so that the stat differences don't change how the two Pokemon play - just click Dragon Rage and win.
I think Garchomp would have been much better served with Crunch or Fire Fang in the place of Aerial Ace. The only pokemon that takes more damage from Aerial Ace than Earthquake or Dragon Claw is Heracross, and by the time they start appearing you've already got Swords Dance.
(Also Crunch deals consistent neutral damage to the Bronzors/zongs)
18:24 fairy type not in gen 4 (only Bronzong-line in Sinnoh Pokedex)
also there is a reason why Garchomp was the first non legendary Pokemon to be banned to ubers without shadow tag
Somewhat related, but in solo challenges with basic pokemon does it ever save time to equip an everstone?
6:30 Silly. Dragapult.
I am offended. I love Dragapult. I think it's one of the cooler dragon Pokemon.
When you play heartgold/soul silver make sure the date is jan 25th or something else like that for the fact certain dates in certain locations IE snowpoint city and Mount silver give diamond dust instead of hail when in battle
Gible is not as bad as you'd think because early Dragon Rage is busted. which makes the Garchomp line the only really good pseudo for a casual playthrough of its native game. Dragonite line, no, Salamence line TOO LATE but I guess you can use it for E4 & Champion, Hydreigon evolves post-game, Goodra just isn't that good, Jangmo-o comes quite late, Dreepy is hard to obtain and useless until it evolves and the final evolution is quite late, and I guess Baxcalibur is pretty solid but not as stat optimized or as good in terms of typing. in Platinum in particular with early Earthquake access, it's almost hard NOT to run Garchomp.
6:30 now i know the reason for all the Cynthia art with Garchomp 😅
15:31 you should have a bit where Fantina's first pokemon has a render of dusknoir poorly edited on top of it, just to further the joke.
To answer the question:
Magikarp.