I can relate to that choice because I've started piano only a few months ago with essentially jazz in mind. First, I thought as I would never play an acoustic piano I didn't need a weighted keybed. Finally I made the switch and I don't regret it. Truely the weight introduces a wider spectrum of rendering because you can apply a wider range of force. With an unweighted keybed you have generally a too high sensibility, everything gets to the maximum and the sound result is more confined in term of expression. You didn't talk about the different velocities you can apply with unweighted keybed, I can say from my little experience that they can't compete with the real weighted key.
Thanks for tuning in and sharing your experiences! A weighted keyboard action certainly provides a greater sense of connectivity and a greater range of dynamic control. :)
@@MerriamPianosI took piano classes with a unweighted electronic piano and last week my teacher wanted me to play on a weighted one and I really struggled and my hands still hurt because I have never used a weighted keyboard before. Do you have any tips? Could you make a video to adapt from non-weighted to weighted keyboard?
Super informative and high quality video. Thanks a bunch for putting out these videos man. Soon I'll most likely be getting a FP-30X to practice with at home.
I've been playing piano regularly for 10+ years growing up, but haven't touched one for the past 10 years or so. Now I'm looking to buy one again and all of your videos are absolutely fantastic! I didn't know how interesting a 40 or 50 minute video about pianos could be, but I've been watching quite a few lately. Thank you so much for putting out such great content for free!
You're very welcome! We're glad you've been enjoying them! Congrats on deciding to get back into playing the piano. It is a wonderful activity with a multitude of benefits! :)
Stu, you are just awesome. Your videos are an absolute joy to watch. Do you have a background in education? If not, I think you'd make an excellent educator.
Hi! Brent here! Thanks so much for tuning in! Stu does have a background in music education and teaching piano. It certainly attributes to his excellent pedagogical abilities. :)
Great video Stu ! I'm a professional classical trained pianist and honestly i like both but of course in different situations ! In terms of portability for the gigging pianist if the music genre allows it a light weight keyboard .Most of the time i prefer a fully weighted piano for most of music genres because i want to be comfortable as with an acoustic piano !
Brent here! Thanks so much for tuning and writing in! We appreciate it. :) I definitely agree with the sentiment that there is a time and a place for both options. It all comes down to the needs of the situation.
So I guess there are a few things to look at (1) Weighted (2) Graded (3) Let off (escapement) (4) long lever (5) triple sensor So (1) Weighted is like a "needing some kind of force" to press down like an acoustic piano (2) Graded is easier to press down on the treble notes, harder to press down on the bass notes, like a real piano (3) Let off (escapement) is simulating the let-off movement of a real piano (4) long lever is so that pressing down near the edge the key is not so much different (not needing a lot of force) as compared to pressing down near the felt area (5) triple sensor is so that you can trill, meaning you don't have to wait for the return to original position of the key and can press it mid way, but Casio seems to claim their double sensor is just as good in their new PX-S series
Well my Kawai ES110 doesn't have simulated escapement feel nor triple sensors, but I'm not trading it in for a Roland FP30X anytime soon. IMO on well regulated acoustic pianos the let-off escapement is barely noticeable you would have to be on a teribly unmaintained piano for it to put you off if you have a digital piano without simulated escapement feel. As for the triple sensor it depends. On actions that are not the PHA4 they're probably a lot beter. I tried the GHS from Yamaha and the RHC from Kawai, and IMO they're a lot beter than the PHA4 in spite of having only double sensors, and no simulated escapement feel🎹🎶
This is an excellent break down of the major considerations and elements of a digital piano action! To your last point, there are certainly other ways to generate excellent tracking of a player's performance beyond the number of sensors. Casio's higher end actions do an excellent job of this even despite being dual sensors.
Thanks for your videos and answers to comments on here. Based on your videos and advice we tested a Roland GP6 and she fell in love with it immediately! I wouldn't have known where to start with digital piano's if it wasn't for you and now we have a new GP6 that's even inspired me to learn to play. Thank you, from myself and my wife.
Congrats on your new Roland GP6! It is a wonderful model and a meaningful update to the already amazing GP607! We're happy to hear that you found our video reviews helpful through your decision process. Thanks so much and happy playing! :)
Doing my piano practice on the weighted P515 also makes me better at controlling the dynamics on my semi-weighted synth. Weighted I believe is a must for piano learners, the finger strength and control is developed much faster. But for playing sounds other than piano I prefer a semi-weighted or synth action.
Thanks for sharing your insights! That is a very good point. Practicing on a heavier weighted touch will certainly optimize finger strength and dynamic control. That is also a good point about playing non-piano sounds. Sometimes, a synth action or semi-weighted touch can be the preference. :)
BOTH for me; weighted for anything piano and most "foundation", unweighted for synth leads, or if I need aftertouch (unfortunately my weighted keys don't have that, and it's not that common to have on weighted action) . Don't forget unweighted "waterfall style, short throw" keybeds; for organ (not a necessity, but it definitely made a difference)
Well, even non-weighted synth keyboards can be velocity sensitive for dynamics. I'm sure you know that, so I guess your point is that so little force is involved that it does have a different feel, offer less feedback, and might lead to developing different playing technique, which can negatively impact learning how to play acoustic pianos. That's all true enough. I just wanted to point out for the uninitiated that dynamics are achievable with non-weighted keyboards, even though they present problems for learning how to properly play the piano. By the way, so-called "semi-weighted" keyboards, which seem to be non-weighted keyboards with heavier springs, can vary greatly in terms of key weight. They don't feel like weighted piano keyboards, but can be heavier in some cases. Most are lighter, but there are exceptions. I have a "semi-weighted" keyboard (M-Audio Oxygen Pro 61) with a key weight of over 80 grams, which for an acoustic piano would definitely be on the heavy side. I think this makes adapting to playing the piano easier because the force and basic technique involved are similar, but the feel is still quite different, and the keys don't behave exactly the same, so certain aspects of one's technique, such as playing trills, will take some effort and time to adjust.
Thanks so much for tuning in and sharing your insights! These are very excellent points. Stu was alluding to the difference in feel. Beyond just the key weight, as you've pointed out, non-weighted or semi-weighted keys (heck, even fully-weighted digital piano keys) can feel and react very differently than an acoustic piano action when it comes to the correlation between key pressure/velocity and dynamic/tonal output. With that all said, it always comes down to the subjective experience of the player too. Some people may find more congruency between a particular digital piano action and an acoustic action than others.
Your channel is the best for technical education of the keyboards and I've been particularly watching your amazing videos of the Kawai key actions. It is good that we have this video covering this topic. It is the first time I have seen the best clip of the piano hammer action you showed in the beginning, where I can see the escapement as well, clearly. I would love to see the insides of the synth and semi and full weighted keys as well. Or would love to see u showing the factory of Kawai to show their technical aspects of the RH3 etc. Actually I was searching for the Pipe Organ key action, as I thought the synth action is inspired by it. I read a comment that the weighted action downside is that it's hard to keep holding down the key, whereas the real hammer action makes it light after hitting the hammer. So plz also explain the mechanism. Also plz consider travelling to Kawai factory to make a whole do u series on their mechanism and production, and history. You will be the perfect man for that. Make a documentary. Japanese competitiveness is just amazing. I have seen their competitions on various industrial areas on NHK Japan channel.
Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks so much for your kind words and for the suggestion! Stu, myself, and a few other colleagues from Merriam have all had the opportunity to visit the Kawai factory. With that said, it is important to note that most suppliers and manufacturers do not allow the public to visit their production facilities. Furthermore, even when dealers and other industry personnel are invited to do so, they are prohibited from filming, which, naturally, makes sense given that companies want to protect their proprietary knowledge and manufacturing procedures. With that said, we have actually released several video series that take a deep dive into the various actions of different manufacturers, including Kawai and Roland. You should be able to find them on our channel! :)
Another great vid from Stu! While my 7' Knabe stays in the living room I'm still loving my Roland RD88 purchased 2 years ago: 29 lbs, full 88, PHA4 action with triple sensor & 3000 tones. Thanks for your review of the RD88!
Hi! Brent here! Thanks for tuning in! The Roland RD88 is an absolute powerhouse and a very underrated instrument in my opinion. The cost to value ratio it offers is immense. Happy playing! :)
I've noticed that white and black keys of some unweighted / semi-weighted MIDI controllers have different weight / resistance. I just bougth M-Audio Keystation 49. Started playing and noticed that chords with mostly black keys (Ebm7, Bbm7, etc.) are quieter than all white key chords (Em7, etc.). Recorded velocities - black keys are about 30-40, white - 50-70. I had similar problem with M-Audio Oxygen Pro about 6 months ago. Don't remember if white or black keys were lighter. I returned it. I also have cheap Casio CT-S410 and expensive Yamaha MODX 7 which don't have any velocity problems. Maybe it is M-Audio issue. I like Keystation 49's keybed. It is quiet. Much quieter than MODX 6/7. Another thing I hate about unweighted keys is a loud clicking sound. I tried Novation Launchkey 49 also, returned it because of very loud clicking sound. Actually, it didn't have that white/black key weight/resistance difference, but it had some other velocity problems. The max velocity you could get was like 50-60 max. Well, MODX 6/7 also has annoying clicking sound, but I'm not going to return it because of that. So far my favorite keybed is Yamaha P125 which I currently own and Yamaha MX88 which I sold I while ago. I think MX88 had lighter action. But those keyboards are big and heavy and I've almost never used them with a DAW (computer).
Hi! Brent here! Some key actions are certainly louder than others when it comes to mechanical noise. The other thing to consider too is the difference in pivot length that may exist between the white and black keys. It can be quite pronounced in certain models, which can create great disparity between the touch and potential dynamic capabilities. I have a Keystation 49 that I use as one of my MIDI controllers when I require a synth-action feel. I do notice the same issue with the black key velocities. However, given the price point of the product, it is still quite an impressive piece of gear. Plus, it fits nicely on a workstation desk and takes up minimal real estate. Thanks for tuning in and sharing your insights! We appreciate it. :)
I figured out how to fix velocity in Logic. The following MIDI FX script (Scripter plugin) bumps up black notes velocity 20%. Don't forget to check "Record MIDI to Track Here". black = [1,3,6,8,10]; function HandleMIDI(event) { if(event instanceof NoteOn) { r = event.pitch % 12; if(black.includes(r)) { vel = Math.round(event.velocity * 1.2); if(vel > 127) vel = 127; event.velocity = vel; } Trace(event.velocity) } event.send(); }
Before I started my piano lesson last year, I used to learn and play on cheap unweighted keyboard. As soon as I started my classes, I noticed that my fingers were lacking in strength and I can’t hit the keys properly, sometime the sound didn’t even come out (we are using an upright piano at the music school). That’s when I decided to buy a weighted digital piano and get used to playing with weight.
Absolutely! If you are going to be playing and practicing on an acoustic piano elsewhere, having access to a weighted key digital piano at home is very important and helps ensure proper technique development and finger strength. :)
Thanks Stu, for another interesting and balanced video. I'd like to add to a few points. In my experience "semi-weighted" keyboards usually feel exactly the same as unweighted keyboards, except there is more spring resistance. The keys still return too quickly for a pianistic experience. Arguably, there is better control of expression and arpeggios (than with unweighted) but semi-weighted is far from the feel of a weighted keyboard. I'm not even sure if the description "piano" is appropriate at all. Apart from speed (at certain things) plus a lower weight and a lower price, I find semi-weighted keys are a bit easier for playing keyboard basslines than either unweighted or fully weighted. But it still helps if the keys have a good pivot point. Some keyboards (not fully weighted) have a terrible uneveness due to excessively short keys. Another way of reducing weight for enhanced portability is to have fewer keys. Some of us prefer this option (with a weighted action) to having 88 unweighted/semi-weighted keys. Recently, I have switched from a 6kg semi-weighted action travel "piano" to a 10kg weighted action travel piano. Both have 73 keys. There's a big price leap, but for me it's worth every penny buying the piano with a weighted action. As it happens, the sound is much better too. I don't care about 4kg extra. 10kg is still very light.
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks for tuning in and sharing your insights and experiences! We appreciate it. :) There are some great points here about the various applications in which certain weightings/actions are ideal or perform better/worse. There are different tools for different jobs of course, but, thankfully, the piano industry has a wide array of options available to suit all musical applications and situations.
I think the "digital piano" namesake can accurately apply to semi-weighted action keyboards if they have a suitable amount of dynamic range which is a fair bit easier to control than on a completely unweighted action. ....Or, perhaps "digital _semi-piano"_ would be a better term?
Hi there! Thanks so much for these excellent suggestions! We have a few other videos in the queue, but we will certainly do our best to tackle these for you. :)
I couldn't imagine playing / learning on a digital without weighted keys because the jump from that to an actual piano would be incredibly jarring the times I get a chance to play one. This is especially problematic if you've got a teacher (that you go to) and playing on their piano instead of your own messes you up because the feel of playing is so dramatically different.
For sure! There are some situations where it is very critical to be studying on a weighted key instrument. With that said, non-weighted keys have their place in some performance settings when sounds other than a piano tone is being used and a different style of touch is more suited to the attack envelope of the patch.
I've often wondered why Roland or Yamaha doesn't offer a product that not only can be programmed to sound like a certain piano or organ but also feel like it. That way, when you select Yamaha CFX it would not only sound like a CFX grand but each key would also feel like you're playing one. Select Hammond B3 and it would not only sound like a B3 but also each key would feel like you're playing the lightweight, responsive waterfall keys of a B3.. Certainly haptic and servo technology exists to accomplish this?
That is a brilliant idea actually! Of course, the physical sensation of the keys would be very difficult to make variable (possible-but-difficult). However, adjusting the default touch curve based on each patch would be a possibility. Hopefully, one of the major digital manufacturers will tackle that initiative soon. I think it is an excellent and compelling idea! :)
It certainly won't be easy otherwise it'd be done already. There's a lot of room inside the keys and servos are small and powerful. Not easy! But imagine how cool that would be!
Thank you Stu and thank you Merriam Music. I have a question, would you ever consider doing a video comparing the sound of each keyboard/digital piano when completely silent? In other words, what does it sound like to the person sitting in the room or nearby a person playing with their headphones on? I am sure some actions would be much quieter than others.
Hi! Brent here! Thank you for the kind words and for the question! We have actually recently added this topic to a list of potential video topics to cover in the near future. We will do our best to tackle it for you as soon as we can. Thanks again and all the best! :)
I know the kawai mp7SE is a little old school, i feel kawai nailed it as far as realism goes, but i just wish they would care the way yahama does and i wish they would do more updates and allow users to upload skins from online. Kawai is still stuck in the year 2015, would be nice if they stepped it up. But the mp7 se has so many features i don’t think i need snigger board and TO ME NOTHING that I’ve tried had felt better than RH3, and blows anything yahama or roland does out of the water even though roland uses that action, it feels like it’s nicer on a kawai Love all you do my friend!! I just wish i could get a diff patch to use other then the SKEX its ok but only optimized for classical
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks for tuning in and sharing your thoughts! The Kawai MP7SE is an absolute powerhouse with a great touch and tone! The MP11SE is even a step up from that for many players, although some players prefer the plastic RHIII action of the MP7SE in terms of feel. Thanks again and happy playing! :)
@@MerriamPianos i played and tried out the nords, and the yahama yc88 and even then after i tried the more expensive ones i still can’t seem to detach from the kawai
Hi Stu and Merriam Music, I'm in the early stages of considering my options to upgrade from a regular PSR keyboard to a digital piano with weighted keys. One thing that worries me is all the reports of brand new pianos rapidly developing a "clicking" noise under some keys, presumably due to the grease not remaining where it's supposed to be. This seems to be particularly prevalent with the new models of at least 2 of the major brands, from what I've seen. I was wondering if maybe you had any advice or information on this topic? Thanks!
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! While virtually all digital piano actions are eventually susceptible to clicking keys from a certain period of use, some models and manufacturers' actions are more robust and durable than others. For instance, the Roland PHA4 action (featured on the FP10, FP30X, and FP60X models) is extremely durable and robust from my experiences. Also, in the case that you experienced clicking keys early in the instrument's lifespan, the repair should be covered under warranty.
Hello sir. I want to learn piano so that I can dedicate my time to playing instrumentals and studying. I also play the guitar and have been learning for six years. I'm 14 now, and music is helping me quit mobile and social media stuff. Now, my question is, should I buy the Nux WK 310 or the Vault MK2? I'm really confused . I just want to play music like in Interstellar. The prices are high, and I want to play in my free time. Please help me.
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! That is great to hear that you are looking to dedicate your time to playing/studying music and piano in particular. It is a wonderful and rewarding endeavour to invest one's time into. In terms of your question regarding the NUX WK310 or Vault MK2 models, I am not familiar with either of those unfortunately, so I won't be able to assist in offering any suggestions. I would recommend checking out Kawai and Roland models though if they are accessible to you. The Kawai pianos are excellent if you're focused on achieving an authentic sound and the Roland pianos offer some of the best and most authentic feeling actions on the market. :)
The keyboards in hybrid pianos are very heavy, heavier than in acoustic instruments. I compared Kawai Novus NV10 with concert grand pianos in a music shop. It was much harder to play Kawai than Steinway or Boesendorfer. However, it seemed to me that the hybrid Yamaha Avantgarde was lighter than Kawai. So I would advise being caref 2:36 ul when choosing hybrid.
Every piano's action has a different weight and feel. At the end of the day, it comes down to a matter of personal preference of course. For that reason, it is always important to test out pianos in person whenever possible to ensure you resonate with the musical experience it provides.
What’s your favorite weighted key in a digital piano right now? I was inspired to pick up an ES-920 based on your videos, but want to make sure I’m not missing somebody
Hi! Brent here! It comes down to a matter of personal preference of course, but I am personally a huge fan of the ES920's RHIII action and the CA901's GFIII action. :)
Hi there! We will do our best to tackle that review as soon as we can. With that said, we do have some other review/comparison videos in the queue at the moment. :)
The real reason any of this matters actually comes down to ergonomics and repetitive stress. Keyboards are designed the way they are in mechanical pianos not only because of issues like sensitivity, feedback, and speed, but also wear and tear as playing something and being worn out or suffering repetitive stress injuries is unacceptable for a performer. A common issue is that the action feels very nice, does all the things musically. But is much more fatiguing than mechanical ones or their better action above it ($$$) . Some non-weighted are too stiff or lack any cushon at the bottom. Some weighted ones aren't any better, forcing you to muscle your way through pieces. So consider this in your decision as well.
Thanks for tuning in and sharing these insights! You definitely make some excellent and compelling points, which are worth consideration for many players. :)
Thanks for the suggestion! We will do our best to tackle that. We do have a GP510 review (which is quite similar in specs to the GP310) that you can check out here: ruclips.net/video/I-ubqnVUbHc/видео.html Between the GP310 and DG30, it really comes down to a matter of preference. I would personally say that the GP310 would be my preference in terms of action. It is a heavier, all wooden key stick, which is quite authentic feeling. :)
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! We will do our best to tackle that as soon as possible, but we have a few other videos in the queue first. Thanks for the suggestion! :)
Coming from the classical piano I definitely prefer weighted keys because of the tactile feedback. BTW, how big is the difference between the action of the Kawai MP10 and the Kawai MP11SE? I read somewhere that there is a difference between the two and that the MP11SE has a faster action but I’ve never played the MP11SE myself.
Both instruments use the Grand Feel action, but there are many situations where companies make some tweaks to the same series of action when being deployed in a different model. With that said, according to a digital piano technician I speak to regularly, the MP11 and MP11SE have virtually identical actions.
Always choose weighted keys if you are serious about playing. Best, have acoustic piano and fully/semi weighted 88 portable keys that won't kill your back
Exactly. This is the option that I am choosing now. I had both Roland FP-90X and Yamaha P-515 in the past and recently downgraded to portable P-125a with the plan to get an acoustic upright as soon as possible. I briefly considered a better digital piano (Yamaha CLP775 or Kawai CA701 (79) but changed my plan.
@@mfurman You had arguably the best portable piano keybed on the market in the 90X. Why would you downgrade? Unless you want to buy acoustic piano and don't want portable keys or other sounds.
@@MerriamPianos Breathing weighted keyboards since the age of 7 :) I have nord stage 2 88, and yamaha upright acoustic piano from young age. Can't ask for a lot more than that other than that upgraded keybed (triple sensor) in the stage 4 88... Please review stage 4 88 :) I love your detailed keyboard reviews. Thanks, you too.
@@amirprog PHA50 was, in my mind, not the best action when comparing with acoustic action feel. I had three digital pianos with PHA-4, one PHA50 and one NWX. I liked my Yamaha P-515 but the action became a problem for me (because of my aging fingers). I checked many acoustic pianos and their action was never above 60g on C4. Neither FP-90X nor P-515 were “portable” for me - I cannot carry 22 kg of wobbly weight. P-125 is portable and I actually enjoy playing GHS more than P-515. I just need one piano sound (or two) and good action - P-515 and FP-90X in particular were an overkill for me! Michael Ps. I had FP-90X for 9 months and P-515 for more than 10.
I am unfamiliar with any fully-weighted keyboards with less than 88 keys. Unfortunately, it is not a common thing. The vast majority of sub-88 key instruments are synth action or semi-weighted keyboards.
Are these new digital pianos good enough to fool instructors. When I was at school my instructors could always tell when I was practicing on a digital and it was very much frowned upon. 🤔🎹
It depends on the instructor of course, but digital piano technology, particular in regard to the actions, have come a long way in recent years, so the gap has definitely been bridged in a meaningful way. :)
I can relate to that choice because I've started piano only a few months ago with essentially jazz in mind. First, I thought as I would never play an acoustic piano I didn't need a weighted keybed. Finally I made the switch and I don't regret it. Truely the weight introduces a wider spectrum of rendering because you can apply a wider range of force. With an unweighted keybed you have generally a too high sensibility, everything gets to the maximum and the sound result is more confined in term of expression. You didn't talk about the different velocities you can apply with unweighted keybed, I can say from my little experience that they can't compete with the real weighted key.
Thanks for tuning in and sharing your experiences! A weighted keyboard action certainly provides a greater sense of connectivity and a greater range of dynamic control. :)
@@MerriamPianosI took piano classes with a unweighted electronic piano and last week my teacher wanted me to play on a weighted one and I really struggled and my hands still hurt because I have never used a weighted keyboard before. Do you have any tips? Could you make a video to adapt from non-weighted to weighted keyboard?
Super informative and high quality video. Thanks a bunch for putting out these videos man. Soon I'll most likely be getting a FP-30X to practice with at home.
You're very welcome! Glad you're enjoying them! The FP30X is an excellent choice. You will be very pleased with it! :)
I've been playing piano regularly for 10+ years growing up, but haven't touched one for the past 10 years or so.
Now I'm looking to buy one again and all of your videos are absolutely fantastic! I didn't know how interesting a 40 or 50 minute video about pianos could be, but I've been watching quite a few lately. Thank you so much for putting out such great content for free!
You're very welcome! We're glad you've been enjoying them! Congrats on deciding to get back into playing the piano. It is a wonderful activity with a multitude of benefits! :)
Stu, you are just awesome. Your videos are an absolute joy to watch. Do you have a background in education? If not, I think you'd make an excellent educator.
Hi! Brent here! Thanks so much for tuning in! Stu does have a background in music education and teaching piano. It certainly attributes to his excellent pedagogical abilities. :)
Great video Stu ! I'm a professional classical trained pianist and honestly i like both but of course in different situations ! In terms of portability for the gigging pianist if the music genre allows it a light weight keyboard .Most of the time i prefer a fully weighted piano for most of music genres because i want to be comfortable as with an acoustic piano !
Brent here! Thanks so much for tuning and writing in! We appreciate it. :)
I definitely agree with the sentiment that there is a time and a place for both options. It all comes down to the needs of the situation.
I delayed my learning due to an unweighted keyboard childhood... I appreciate your videos every single one is a learning experience
Thanks so much! A weighted key action definitely helps technical development in my experiences. :)
Factss
So I guess there are a few things to look at (1) Weighted (2) Graded (3) Let off (escapement) (4) long lever (5) triple sensor
So (1) Weighted is like a "needing some kind of force" to press down like an acoustic piano (2) Graded is easier to press down on the treble notes, harder to press down on the bass notes, like a real piano (3) Let off (escapement) is simulating the let-off movement of a real piano (4) long lever is so that pressing down near the edge the key is not so much different (not needing a lot of force) as compared to pressing down near the felt area (5) triple sensor is so that you can trill, meaning you don't have to wait for the return to original position of the key and can press it mid way, but Casio seems to claim their double sensor is just as good in their new PX-S series
Well my Kawai ES110 doesn't have simulated escapement feel nor triple sensors, but I'm not trading it in for a Roland FP30X anytime soon. IMO on well regulated acoustic pianos the let-off escapement is barely noticeable you would have to be on a teribly unmaintained piano for it to put you off if you have a digital piano without simulated escapement feel. As for the triple sensor it depends. On actions that are not the PHA4 they're probably a lot beter. I tried the GHS from Yamaha and the RHC from Kawai, and IMO they're a lot beter than the PHA4 in spite of having only double sensors, and no simulated escapement feel🎹🎶
This is an excellent break down of the major considerations and elements of a digital piano action! To your last point, there are certainly other ways to generate excellent tracking of a player's performance beyond the number of sensors. Casio's higher end actions do an excellent job of this even despite being dual sensors.
@@MERCEDES-BENZS600GUARD_V12 The let off on the MP11SE isn't noticeable in the vast majority of ordinary playing in my experience.
@@Biozene that's good to know unfortunately that model may be made to order where I'm at so I don't know if I'll ever get to try it🎹🎶
Thanks for your videos and answers to comments on here. Based on your videos and advice we tested a Roland GP6 and she fell in love with it immediately! I wouldn't have known where to start with digital piano's if it wasn't for you and now we have a new GP6 that's even inspired me to learn to play. Thank you, from myself and my wife.
Congrats on your new Roland GP6! It is a wonderful model and a meaningful update to the already amazing GP607! We're happy to hear that you found our video reviews helpful through your decision process. Thanks so much and happy playing! :)
You have been concise and helpful . Thanks
You're very welcome! We're glad you found the video helpful! :)
Doing my piano practice on the weighted P515 also makes me better at controlling the dynamics on my semi-weighted synth. Weighted I believe is a must for piano learners, the finger strength and control is developed much faster. But for playing sounds other than piano I prefer a semi-weighted or synth action.
Thanks for sharing your insights! That is a very good point. Practicing on a heavier weighted touch will certainly optimize finger strength and dynamic control. That is also a good point about playing non-piano sounds. Sometimes, a synth action or semi-weighted touch can be the preference. :)
BOTH for me; weighted for anything piano and most "foundation", unweighted for synth leads, or if I need aftertouch (unfortunately my weighted keys don't have that, and it's not that common to have on weighted action) .
Don't forget unweighted "waterfall style, short throw" keybeds; for organ (not a necessity, but it definitely made a difference)
Thanks for these excellent insights! There is definitely a time and place for unweighted keys as you've mentioned. :)
Well, even non-weighted synth keyboards can be velocity sensitive for dynamics. I'm sure you know that, so I guess your point is that so little force is involved that it does have a different feel, offer less feedback, and might lead to developing different playing technique, which can negatively impact learning how to play acoustic pianos. That's all true enough. I just wanted to point out for the uninitiated that dynamics are achievable with non-weighted keyboards, even though they present problems for learning how to properly play the piano.
By the way, so-called "semi-weighted" keyboards, which seem to be non-weighted keyboards with heavier springs, can vary greatly in terms of key weight. They don't feel like weighted piano keyboards, but can be heavier in some cases. Most are lighter, but there are exceptions. I have a "semi-weighted" keyboard (M-Audio Oxygen Pro 61) with a key weight of over 80 grams, which for an acoustic piano would definitely be on the heavy side. I think this makes adapting to playing the piano easier because the force and basic technique involved are similar, but the feel is still quite different, and the keys don't behave exactly the same, so certain aspects of one's technique, such as playing trills, will take some effort and time to adjust.
Thanks so much for tuning in and sharing your insights! These are very excellent points. Stu was alluding to the difference in feel. Beyond just the key weight, as you've pointed out, non-weighted or semi-weighted keys (heck, even fully-weighted digital piano keys) can feel and react very differently than an acoustic piano action when it comes to the correlation between key pressure/velocity and dynamic/tonal output. With that all said, it always comes down to the subjective experience of the player too. Some people may find more congruency between a particular digital piano action and an acoustic action than others.
Your channel is the best for technical education of the keyboards and I've been particularly watching your amazing videos of the Kawai key actions. It is good that we have this video covering this topic. It is the first time I have seen the best clip of the piano hammer action you showed in the beginning, where I can see the escapement as well, clearly. I would love to see the insides of the synth and semi and full weighted keys as well. Or would love to see u showing the factory of Kawai to show their technical aspects of the RH3 etc.
Actually I was searching for the Pipe Organ key action, as I thought the synth action is inspired by it.
I read a comment that the weighted action downside is that it's hard to keep holding down the key, whereas the real hammer action makes it light after hitting the hammer. So plz also explain the mechanism. Also plz consider travelling to Kawai factory to make a whole do u series on their mechanism and production, and history. You will be the perfect man for that. Make a documentary. Japanese competitiveness is just amazing. I have seen their competitions on various industrial areas on NHK Japan channel.
Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks so much for your kind words and for the suggestion! Stu, myself, and a few other colleagues from Merriam have all had the opportunity to visit the Kawai factory. With that said, it is important to note that most suppliers and manufacturers do not allow the public to visit their production facilities. Furthermore, even when dealers and other industry personnel are invited to do so, they are prohibited from filming, which, naturally, makes sense given that companies want to protect their proprietary knowledge and manufacturing procedures. With that said, we have actually released several video series that take a deep dive into the various actions of different manufacturers, including Kawai and Roland. You should be able to find them on our channel! :)
I've been a musician for 46 years, I'll do a full concert on a 9-ft grand piano just as fast and as easily as I'll do one on a 61 key Casio
One of the things that comes along with being a piano player is getting used to playing a variety of different instruments on a regular basis.
Another great vid from Stu! While my 7' Knabe stays in the living room I'm still loving my Roland RD88 purchased 2 years ago: 29 lbs, full 88, PHA4 action with triple sensor & 3000 tones. Thanks for your review of the RD88!
Hi! Brent here! Thanks for tuning in! The Roland RD88 is an absolute powerhouse and a very underrated instrument in my opinion. The cost to value ratio it offers is immense. Happy playing! :)
I've noticed that white and black keys of some unweighted / semi-weighted MIDI controllers have different weight / resistance. I just bougth M-Audio Keystation 49. Started playing and noticed that chords with mostly black keys (Ebm7, Bbm7, etc.) are quieter than all white key chords (Em7, etc.). Recorded velocities - black keys are about 30-40, white - 50-70. I had similar problem with M-Audio Oxygen Pro about 6 months ago. Don't remember if white or black keys were lighter. I returned it. I also have cheap Casio CT-S410 and expensive Yamaha MODX 7 which don't have any velocity problems. Maybe it is M-Audio issue. I like Keystation 49's keybed. It is quiet. Much quieter than MODX 6/7.
Another thing I hate about unweighted keys is a loud clicking sound. I tried Novation Launchkey 49 also, returned it because of very loud clicking sound. Actually, it didn't have that white/black key weight/resistance difference, but it had some other velocity problems. The max velocity you could get was like 50-60 max. Well, MODX 6/7 also has annoying clicking sound, but I'm not going to return it because of that.
So far my favorite keybed is Yamaha P125 which I currently own and Yamaha MX88 which I sold I while ago. I think MX88 had lighter action. But those keyboards are big and heavy and I've almost never used them with a DAW (computer).
Hi! Brent here! Some key actions are certainly louder than others when it comes to mechanical noise. The other thing to consider too is the difference in pivot length that may exist between the white and black keys. It can be quite pronounced in certain models, which can create great disparity between the touch and potential dynamic capabilities. I have a Keystation 49 that I use as one of my MIDI controllers when I require a synth-action feel. I do notice the same issue with the black key velocities. However, given the price point of the product, it is still quite an impressive piece of gear. Plus, it fits nicely on a workstation desk and takes up minimal real estate. Thanks for tuning in and sharing your insights! We appreciate it. :)
I figured out how to fix velocity in Logic. The following MIDI FX script (Scripter plugin) bumps up black notes velocity 20%. Don't forget to check "Record MIDI to Track Here".
black = [1,3,6,8,10];
function HandleMIDI(event)
{
if(event instanceof NoteOn)
{
r = event.pitch % 12;
if(black.includes(r)) {
vel = Math.round(event.velocity * 1.2);
if(vel > 127) vel = 127;
event.velocity = vel;
}
Trace(event.velocity)
}
event.send();
}
@@FirstLast-nr6gf
Would this work in Reaper?
Before I started my piano lesson last year, I used to learn and play on cheap unweighted keyboard. As soon as I started my classes, I noticed that my fingers were lacking in strength and I can’t hit the keys properly, sometime the sound didn’t even come out (we are using an upright piano at the music school). That’s when I decided to buy a weighted digital piano and get used to playing with weight.
Absolutely! If you are going to be playing and practicing on an acoustic piano elsewhere, having access to a weighted key digital piano at home is very important and helps ensure proper technique development and finger strength. :)
Thank you so much for this video! Very important content.
You're very welcome! Thanks for tuning in! :)
Thanks Stu, for another interesting and balanced video. I'd like to add to a few points.
In my experience "semi-weighted" keyboards usually feel exactly the same as unweighted keyboards, except there is more spring resistance. The keys still return too quickly for a pianistic experience.
Arguably, there is better control of expression and arpeggios (than with unweighted) but semi-weighted is far from the feel of a weighted keyboard. I'm not even sure if the description "piano" is appropriate at all. Apart from speed (at certain things) plus a lower weight and a lower price, I find semi-weighted keys are a bit easier for playing keyboard basslines than either unweighted or fully weighted. But it still helps if the keys have a good pivot point. Some keyboards (not fully weighted) have a terrible uneveness due to excessively short keys.
Another way of reducing weight for enhanced portability is to have fewer keys. Some of us prefer this option (with a weighted action) to having 88 unweighted/semi-weighted keys.
Recently, I have switched from a 6kg semi-weighted action travel "piano" to a 10kg weighted action travel piano. Both have 73 keys. There's a big price leap, but for me it's worth every penny buying the piano with a weighted action. As it happens, the sound is much better too. I don't care about 4kg extra. 10kg is still very light.
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks for tuning in and sharing your insights and experiences! We appreciate it. :)
There are some great points here about the various applications in which certain weightings/actions are ideal or perform better/worse. There are different tools for different jobs of course, but, thankfully, the piano industry has a wide array of options available to suit all musical applications and situations.
I think the "digital piano" namesake can accurately apply to semi-weighted action keyboards if they have a suitable amount of dynamic range which is a fair bit easier to control than on a completely unweighted action. ....Or, perhaps "digital _semi-piano"_ would be a better term?
Wishlist videos:
1 - P225 and comparision with another compact keys slab, Pxs5000
2 - Slab Digital Pianos as midi controller
Hi there! Thanks so much for these excellent suggestions! We have a few other videos in the queue, but we will certainly do our best to tackle these for you. :)
Thank you, that helped a lot.
You're very welcome! We're happy to hear that you found it helpful! :)
SUPERB video!! Thank you.
You're very welcome! Thanks for tuning in! :)
How about a Non-Weighted Acoustic Piano? It uses a Tubular Pneumatic Action.
I suppose that is a possibility, but it is not something that I'm familiar with.
@@MerriamPianos Actually that action is based on Aeolian Orchestrelle
I couldn't imagine playing / learning on a digital without weighted keys because the jump from that to an actual piano would be incredibly jarring the times I get a chance to play one.
This is especially problematic if you've got a teacher (that you go to) and playing on their piano instead of your own messes you up because the feel of playing is so dramatically different.
For sure! There are some situations where it is very critical to be studying on a weighted key instrument. With that said, non-weighted keys have their place in some performance settings when sounds other than a piano tone is being used and a different style of touch is more suited to the attack envelope of the patch.
I've often wondered why Roland or Yamaha doesn't offer a product that not only can be programmed to sound like a certain piano or organ but also feel like it. That way, when you select Yamaha CFX it would not only sound like a CFX grand but each key would also feel like you're playing one. Select Hammond B3 and it would not only sound like a B3 but also each key would feel like you're playing the lightweight, responsive waterfall keys of a B3.. Certainly haptic and servo technology exists to accomplish this?
That is a brilliant idea actually! Of course, the physical sensation of the keys would be very difficult to make variable (possible-but-difficult). However, adjusting the default touch curve based on each patch would be a possibility. Hopefully, one of the major digital manufacturers will tackle that initiative soon. I think it is an excellent and compelling idea! :)
Thanks! My gut tells me it may already be in their skunkworks; I'd buy a keyboard that could do this!@@MerriamPianos
Great idea, but seems like more things to break in the future🎹🎶
@@pmbouvierI think it would be harder to do on a keyboard because of the slim design 🎹🎶
It certainly won't be easy otherwise it'd be done already. There's a lot of room inside the keys and servos are small and powerful. Not easy! But imagine how cool that would be!
Thank you Stu and thank you Merriam Music. I have a question, would you ever consider doing a video comparing the sound of each keyboard/digital piano when completely silent? In other words, what does it sound like to the person sitting in the room or nearby a person playing with their headphones on? I am sure some actions would be much quieter than others.
Hi! Brent here! Thank you for the kind words and for the question! We have actually recently added this topic to a list of potential video topics to cover in the near future. We will do our best to tackle it for you as soon as we can. Thanks again and all the best! :)
I know the kawai mp7SE is a little old school, i feel kawai nailed it as far as realism goes, but i just wish they would care the way yahama does and i wish they would do more updates and allow users to upload skins from online. Kawai is still stuck in the year 2015, would be nice if they stepped it up. But the mp7 se has so many features i don’t think i need snigger board and TO ME NOTHING that I’ve tried had felt better than RH3, and blows anything yahama or roland does out of the water even though roland uses that action, it feels like it’s nicer on a kawai
Love all you do my friend!! I just wish i could get a diff patch to use other then the SKEX its ok but only optimized for classical
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks for tuning in and sharing your thoughts! The Kawai MP7SE is an absolute powerhouse with a great touch and tone! The MP11SE is even a step up from that for many players, although some players prefer the plastic RHIII action of the MP7SE in terms of feel. Thanks again and happy playing! :)
@@MerriamPianos i played and tried out the nords, and the yahama yc88 and even then after i tried the more expensive ones i still can’t seem to detach from the kawai
Roland doesn't use RHIII they have their own actions calld PHA4, PHA50, and Grand Hybrid🎹🎶
Hi Stu and Merriam Music, I'm in the early stages of considering my options to upgrade from a regular PSR keyboard to a digital piano with weighted keys. One thing that worries me is all the reports of brand new pianos rapidly developing a "clicking" noise under some keys, presumably due to the grease not remaining where it's supposed to be. This seems to be particularly prevalent with the new models of at least 2 of the major brands, from what I've seen. I was wondering if maybe you had any advice or information on this topic? Thanks!
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! While virtually all digital piano actions are eventually susceptible to clicking keys from a certain period of use, some models and manufacturers' actions are more robust and durable than others. For instance, the Roland PHA4 action (featured on the FP10, FP30X, and FP60X models) is extremely durable and robust from my experiences. Also, in the case that you experienced clicking keys early in the instrument's lifespan, the repair should be covered under warranty.
@@MerriamPianos Thank you for your reply!
Hello sir. I want to learn piano so that I can dedicate my time to playing instrumentals and studying. I also play the guitar and have been learning for six years. I'm 14 now, and music is helping me quit mobile and social media stuff. Now, my question is, should I buy the Nux WK 310 or the Vault MK2? I'm really confused . I just want to play music like in Interstellar. The prices are high, and I want to play in my free time. Please help me.
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! That is great to hear that you are looking to dedicate your time to playing/studying music and piano in particular. It is a wonderful and rewarding endeavour to invest one's time into. In terms of your question regarding the NUX WK310 or Vault MK2 models, I am not familiar with either of those unfortunately, so I won't be able to assist in offering any suggestions. I would recommend checking out Kawai and Roland models though if they are accessible to you. The Kawai pianos are excellent if you're focused on achieving an authentic sound and the Roland pianos offer some of the best and most authentic feeling actions on the market. :)
@@MerriamPianos Should i go for Hammer keys or Non hammer ?
The keyboards in hybrid pianos are very heavy, heavier than in acoustic instruments. I compared Kawai Novus NV10 with concert grand pianos in a music shop. It was much harder to play Kawai than Steinway or Boesendorfer. However, it seemed to me that the hybrid Yamaha Avantgarde was lighter than Kawai. So I would advise being caref 2:36 ul when choosing hybrid.
Every piano's action has a different weight and feel. At the end of the day, it comes down to a matter of personal preference of course. For that reason, it is always important to test out pianos in person whenever possible to ensure you resonate with the musical experience it provides.
What’s your favorite weighted key in a digital piano right now? I was inspired to pick up an ES-920 based on your videos, but want to make sure I’m not missing somebody
Hi! Brent here! It comes down to a matter of personal preference of course, but I am personally a huge fan of the ES920's RHIII action and the CA901's GFIII action. :)
hi, can you do a review or a comparison on the new hybrid yamaha nu1xa? thanks and greetings from germany
Hi there! We will do our best to tackle that review as soon as we can. With that said, we do have some other review/comparison videos in the queue at the moment. :)
The real reason any of this matters actually comes down to ergonomics and repetitive stress. Keyboards are designed the way they are in mechanical pianos not only because of issues like sensitivity, feedback, and speed, but also wear and tear as playing something and being worn out or suffering repetitive stress injuries is unacceptable for a performer. A common issue is that the action feels very nice, does all the things musically. But is much more fatiguing than mechanical ones or their better action above it ($$$) . Some non-weighted are too stiff or lack any cushon at the bottom. Some weighted ones aren't any better, forcing you to muscle your way through pieces. So consider this in your decision as well.
Thanks for tuning in and sharing these insights! You definitely make some excellent and compelling points, which are worth consideration for many players. :)
Could you do a review on the casio hybrid gp310?
And would you go for the Casio GP310(if u have tried it) Or a kawai dg 30
?
Thanks for the suggestion! We will do our best to tackle that. We do have a GP510 review (which is quite similar in specs to the GP310) that you can check out here:
ruclips.net/video/I-ubqnVUbHc/видео.html
Between the GP310 and DG30, it really comes down to a matter of preference. I would personally say that the GP310 would be my preference in terms of action. It is a heavier, all wooden key stick, which is quite authentic feeling. :)
@@MerriamPianosthanks!! keep up the good videos!!
Hi Stu, when does the new Yamaha P225 review come out?
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! We will do our best to tackle that as soon as possible, but we have a few other videos in the queue first. Thanks for the suggestion! :)
Coming from the classical piano I definitely prefer weighted keys because of the tactile feedback. BTW, how big is the difference between the action of the Kawai MP10 and the Kawai MP11SE? I read somewhere that there is a difference between the two and that the MP11SE has a faster action but I’ve never played the MP11SE myself.
Both instruments use the Grand Feel action, but there are many situations where companies make some tweaks to the same series of action when being deployed in a different model. With that said, according to a digital piano technician I speak to regularly, the MP11 and MP11SE have virtually identical actions.
@@MerriamPianos Thanks a lot for the info! 😊
Always choose weighted keys if you are serious about playing. Best, have acoustic piano and fully/semi weighted 88 portable keys that won't kill your back
For sure! I certainly agree with the sentiment! Thanks for tuning in and happy playing! :)
Exactly. This is the option that I am choosing now. I had both Roland FP-90X and Yamaha P-515 in the past and recently downgraded to portable P-125a with the plan to get an acoustic upright as soon as possible. I briefly considered a better digital piano (Yamaha CLP775 or Kawai CA701 (79) but changed my plan.
@@mfurman You had arguably the best portable piano keybed on the market in the 90X. Why would you downgrade? Unless you want to buy acoustic piano and don't want portable keys or other sounds.
@@MerriamPianos Breathing weighted keyboards since the age of 7 :) I have nord stage 2 88, and yamaha upright acoustic piano from young age. Can't ask for a lot more than that other than that upgraded keybed (triple sensor) in the stage 4 88... Please review stage 4 88 :) I love your detailed keyboard reviews. Thanks, you too.
@@amirprog PHA50 was, in my mind, not the best action when comparing with acoustic action feel. I had three digital pianos with PHA-4, one PHA50 and one NWX. I liked my Yamaha P-515 but the action became a problem for me (because of my aging fingers). I checked many acoustic pianos and their action was never above 60g on C4. Neither FP-90X nor P-515 were “portable” for me - I cannot carry 22 kg of wobbly weight. P-125 is portable and I actually enjoy playing GHS more than P-515. I just need one piano sound (or two) and good action - P-515 and FP-90X in particular were an overkill for me!
Michael
Ps. I had FP-90X for 9 months and P-515 for more than 10.
I don't know why but everytime I think of non weighted keys on a digital piano it just feels rong🎹🎶
That is definitely the sentiment of most players that have experience on an acoustic piano.
for some reason I cant find fully weighted keyboards under 88 keys, can somebody help me?
I am unfamiliar with any fully-weighted keyboards with less than 88 keys. Unfortunately, it is not a common thing. The vast majority of sub-88 key instruments are synth action or semi-weighted keyboards.
Review for Korg Pa5x please.
Thanks for the suggestion! We are not Korg dealers, so it may be difficult to tackle, but we will certainly do our best to do so. :)
Stu's the man
:)
Are these new digital pianos good enough to fool instructors. When I was at school my instructors could always tell when I was practicing on a digital and it was very much frowned upon. 🤔🎹
It depends on the instructor of course, but digital piano technology, particular in regard to the actions, have come a long way in recent years, so the gap has definitely been bridged in a meaningful way. :)
2:17 what kawai digital piano is that
I believe that is actually a Roland GP6 or GP9. :)
@@MerriamPianos but there is a kawai logo on?
@@BFHPET maybe it's a Kawai DG30🎹🎶
@@MERCEDES-BENZS600GUARD_V12 it is i dont know why he didnt know what that digital piano was
@@BFHPET me neather🎹🎶