The emotions Wagner's music conveys cannot be expressed with words, they are too powerful, like a force of Nature. I can still recall the first time I heard Wagner's music. I must have been 8 or 10 years old when I heard part of Tannhauser's overture on TV. I was transfixed immediately, as if the music possessed a hypnotic quality, taking me into a realm that lies beyond what humans normally experience. At that time I had never heard the name 'Wagner', but the music stayed in my memory, and later I was able to identify the genius behind this and other masterpieces thanks to a radio program. Regarding the dictator, I can only say that he had an awesome musical taste, and that he must have felt deep within himself the same emotions that I and other Wagnerites are familiar with.
Inhumane though he was, this was the one thing that reminds me that he was still just human. I cannot and will not elevate Hitler to supervillain status on the grounds that he was only a man.
Relevance? It's about how hatefully anti-semitic he was, and how that influenced Hitler. Racist anti-semitism didn't just appear the moment Hitler was born.
When I was in my early thirties I knew nothing of opera. By chance, I attended a performance of "Lohengrin" in Vienna. It changed my life, turned me into a great Wagner and opera fan. Just like Hitler! But I'm a Jew and a scientist. Forty years later, I still love Wagner, even though his hateful ideas are known to me. His music, and the libretti, are beautiful, profound and full of love for humanity. His racial. theories are trivial, confused, stupid and wrong. They are of no interest whatsoever. The music will live on forever. Wagner was one of the greatest artists who ever lived.
The finale of Act I of Lohengrin is a miracle of composition. Wagner interweaves five voices, a full chorus, and the orchestra. I can see why it changed your life.
@@stefan2292 mathematical physicist here, although my main area is gravitational physics I have worked in particle physics a bit, mainly application of topology to the magnetic charge characterization of the Higgs field
Nitzsche could not understand fully the transcendental approach of Wagner. Like Karl Ritter he remained on the surface. Thats why Schopenhauser was more an idol for RW. Still today most who are attracted dont understand fully but are drawn to the operas since they do tell us about 'real' life and death.
Please tell me where he said this. I've read through his collected works multiple times and I'm pretty sure you made this up, or got fooled. Also hi Mr. Fin, you're gonna be mister Finnegan! There's that part where he's talking about Wagner, then he says more generally something to the effect of "some artist have the perfect chords to say the melancholy of late autumn better than anybody, but want to make masterpieces because they're too arrogant." Or something similar, but he's not referring to Wagner
Hitler was obviously not a very intelligent consumer of Wagner’s music dramas. In all of Wagner’s operas there is an opposition between power and love (power is seen as the opposite of love) and all of the good characters renounce power to pursue love. Hitler obviously missed or overlooked this fundamental detail
Wagner was a Titan of opera and classical music along with Bach, Corelli, Mozart, Beethoven, Mahler etc. Every person great or small Jewelry or Gentile have their dark sides. Wagner the antisemite still made great music for all Humanity.
Stephen fry's documentary is a good view about Wagner, healthy and passionate about Wagner's own personality and intentions, which is not entirely just about Hitler and Antisemitism. In fact Wagner shows the human side of Hitler, showing his interest, passion and empathy.
@@joestrummer1962 Even evil people can feel empathy. Hitler's cope was in calling people "ungerman". Eventually he declared that his entire generation of Germans were "not German enough" and therefore deserved to lose the war.
H...r's love of Wagner's music was more typical for his (H...r's) younger years. With time he began to like Franz Lehar's operettas, until eventually he liked them more than Wagner's operas. And Lehar is a very different composer.
Antisemitism was a scourge which was part of the European society during the time that Wagner grew up. People are shaped by the society that they grow up in. As a composer Wagner is a genius and that can't be wished away. Ofc we have to condemn his antisemitic views.
When I started to listen to Wagners’ Works , I couldn’t stop listening to this inqualifiable Music , night and days . I followed the German Libretti to get inspired by a part of “ German soul “ . This Musik completely changed my mind and Word perception for a mere thirty years . Thanks god this tremendous period is back now .
Blaming the greatest artistic genius in the history of mankind for the deliriums of a mad man, in a world that was anti semitic for millenia is like blaming Jesus and other prophets for the hedious crimes of religion perpetrated in their names.
@@javierarreaza5601 Yes, he was a greater genius than Bach snd Mozart. Wagner was not only a great composer but a great writer (his librettos are masterpieces alone) and a great thinker. No cultural figure had a bigger impact than Wagner
@@javierarreaza5601 I think it depends upon one's field, in Wagner's case, that of opera, or as he called them, music dramas, in which he took an art form and transformed it into a super art. I would say that Beethoven reigned supreme as a symphonist, (although some are pretty mediocre), but he only wrote one opera, and frankly, that just wasn't his forte. Bach never wrote an opera, and composed several awesome musical works, but also a very great deal of frankly boring music that is largely forgotten. Ditto for Mozart. He wrote much delightful music, including several splendid operas. But the point is, Wagner's works are more complex musically, and more intellectual dramatically than anyone's. Also more innovative, especially with the use of the leitmotiv. They were also bigger, grander, indicative of a nobility of dramatic conception that must raise them to an unprecedented level. Finally is the fact that in so many of his operas, the choral and orchestral melodies are simply beautiful and mesmerizing.
It is justifiable and fair to vilify Adolf Hitler, for the man was, in his heart, vile. To do the same to Richard Wagner is not fair. He labored all his life to perfect operatic music. His music is uplifting and of very high spirituality. Wagner's shortcomings should be acknowledged and forgiven. Jewish contemporaries of Wagner were among his friends. One of the leading operatic conductors in Wagner's time was Jewish and was honored to conduct the premier of Parsifal. This video has way too much hatred in it.
I think we have abundant reason to think Wagner would have been appalled by AH and would have been just as horrified as any other decent person by the horrors of the Third Reich.
No we never can. But it is a matter of record that all surviving members of his immediate family and two out of Wagner's three grandchildren embraced AH
Only Oscar Wilde would I allow to say something like that! Fortunately, as an avowed Wagner devotee (and Oscar Wilde fan) I hope I will always keep my sense of humor! Mark Twain is supposed to have said, "Wagner's music is better than it sounds."
I agree, Wagner was what got me into Classical music and I will forever be grateful I stumbled across his (Wagners) music. He is one of my favorite composers right next to Dvorak, Beethoven and Bach.
When I was 17 I stopped going to church and it’s all because of Wagner, his music did something to me that religion never could, I thought Wagner must be God. At 17 I knew nothing about Wagner the man but later when I started to study Wagner his music and personal life I was always able to separate the man and the music. Wagner is certainly not alone with hateful thoughts and he’s not the first and won’t be the last but I do know that he makes me feel something that is magical and pure and I will always love him for that.
If we only listened to and admired artist who were perfect in all ways, there would be no art to enjoy today. Everyone has their bad qualities, and some are worse than others. No one is perfect, some are truly horrible Wagners music is what is listened to and NOT his evil antisemitic rantings. Wagners music is an important part of musical and human history.
True but the real important discussion is whether the work itself is antisemitic. And I think the experience of Wagner is enhanced if you know the contradictions of the man who wrote it. Its not the sacred work of a 2nd Jesus but the expression of a deeply flawed and psychologically violent personality that still manages to touches us. What does it say about human nature?
@@paulhoffmann3405 Surprisingly, in fact, Wagner's operas have less violence in them than those written by most other opera composers. And he was not known for violent behavior; and was very kind to animals.
That's not something that's favoured for Europeans to enjoy, even though it is distinctly European and German the widest spoken language in Europe. Imagine Beijing operas were frowned upon, like in the Cultural revolution, that's what's happening in Europe.
Wagner's music is Not the soundtrack of Dictatorship. If that's the case than any music with lots of brass and bombast can be used for dictatorship, any film sdtrk like Star Wars, or any large orchestra that can fill the auditorium with big sound.
What if he just liked Wagner's music?I bet if they found out what brand of shoes he wore they would go off on that.Stalin probably didn't even have any musical tastes.
I learned about Wagner in the 1970s. Wagner was probably banned in Poland. - I like Wagner's music. I would like to see you at the Bahjojt festival someday.
Cause wagner inspired people Much of the world today is about the opposite and making everything grey. I mean compare triumph of the will to a modern commercial ad and you can see this negative energy in the ads where as that propaganda was about inspiring and building up
I think the strain of waving your arms around for 4-5 hours, whilst standing in a hot and stuffy orchestra pit, might push you over the edge. Especially if you've got a bad heart to begin with.
@@ftumschk Yes. I agree. But you have to have plaques ready to break off to begin with, which can cause a heart attack at any time. But the video was not saying he had a heart attack due to physical exertion.
@@Jan96106 There was no need to say it, because conducting Tristan is onerous even for a healthy conductor. I've no doubt that, if Clemens Krauss had stayed home that day instead of conducting Tristan, he'd have been fine.
@@ftumschk No conductors of Wagners music waves or moves their hands for more than or 2 hrs at the most, and not much in quieter passages. After every Act (at least in Bayreuth) there its about a 30 minutes long pause or more, where you can have a meal in the beautiful park outside😊
One can separate the art from the artist. Wagner's music can be appreciated for what it is, great artistry. And simply listening to his music don't make one anti-semitic.
We know how H/tler and his love for Wagner. Why is this documentary seems to be framing this connection between the madman and the artist much like those School shooters in the US and blaming such violence to Heavy Metal music or Rap music. Rather simplistic view from my perspective. Could used the documentary as springboard about the history and situation that shaped these two people. What they might agree and what might not agree. Why not discuss King Ludwig II and his direct patronage to Wagner and the things that developed with the interaction between the two.
Wagner died in 1883 & he was not the only one who had stupid ideas. I think the difference lies in the extent: what would have Wagner done if confronted with the moral dilemma of actually knowing people were being sent to their deaths? We can't tell.
To put it simply, music is a higher revelation than politics or any narrow ideology. I think everybody who truly loves art knows it. I find the stand of that artist condemning Wagner music to be purely ignorant..typical cancel culture.... Joseph Stalin, a mass murderer also had his favorite piece of music as well: Mozart piano Concerto 20 D minor.....so what?!
But Wagner was an anti-fascist. He spent 12 years in Switzerland because of his political activities. Also, Hitler was born after Wagner died.... Yes Wagner was a hideous anti-Semitic, he was also an inventive musical genius that changed Western music that still affects us to this day. Unfortunately we have to take good with the bad when assessing Wagner' s influence. Hitler left only death and destruction...Wagner left magnificent music wrapped in a racist, narcissistic personality.
Wagner was ome of the greatest composers ever. He changed the opera so drastically into modernity than no one else. He would have been considered as the greatest german composer, if who wouldn't have been an antisemetic
Many of the facts mentioned in this documentary have been shown to be false or at least debatable. You can find a well documented reference in the following book Hitler's Wagner: A Very Thin Book Every Word the "Disciple" Said About His "Prophet".
Wagner war ein großer Künstler. Hitler war begeistert von seiner Musik wie auch viele andere Menschen, auch Menschen die der genaue Gegensatz von Hitler sind, Wagnerfan waren und sind!
I have learned to distinguish between the art and the artist. I can consume or enjoy a magnificent piece of art without embracing the artist as a person.
So, we have a dude who belongs to a band, and he offers us his opinion about one of the greatest composers who ever lived. Why? Who cares? Even worse, he writes pop tunes about him. And, to top it all up, he finds it problematic that Wagner is "still celebrated today"!!! As if we know what the moral character or political convictions of all great artists of the past was. And as if we should care! Wagner is celebrated for his masterpieces, not for his moral character. And, for all his moral failings, he died before Hitler was born. Wagner's antisemitism was, unfortunately, the norm at his time. Following the silly cancel logic, we should stop admiring the pyramids in Egypt - after all, these architects were working for a tyrannical Pharaoh. Barenboim sets the right example. And, for those who perhaps do not know, he is one of the greatest conductors alive, and of course he is Jewish.
Wagner's antisemitism and Hitler's adoration of him are troubling to be sure. But there's no denying Wagner's musical genius and I love his music, and thus far I've been able to separate his antisemitism, and his overall unpleasantness as a person from his music. To me fortunately his anti semitism is not expressed in his music, except for the subtle antisemitism and Meistersinger. I suppose if Wagner had written an overtly antisemitic opera that would have been a line to cross that would have been unacceptable, but fortunately I feel I can enjoy his music without having to deal with his antisemitism.
Everybody talks about Wagner's antisemitism as if that were his only fault. He was a narcissist,(although he merited it more than others) who took from others, treated them like sh..., took his benefactor"s wives, stole from Berlioz and Liszt. Betrayed Liszt at the end when Liszt was his main patron. I could go on and on, but he was indisputably a genius.
On July 20, 1968 I was a college student in the gallery of the Bayerische Staatsoper the night Joseph Keilberth collapsed while conducting Act 2 of Tristan und Isolde. There was a dull thud, the orchestra suddenly went silent, the two singers turned toward the pit with startled expressions, and the curtain came crashing down. A few minutes later, an announcement was made that Keilberth had taken ill, and continuing the performance was not possible. Everyone filed out in stunned silence, except for one couple (fellow Americans, I'm ashamed to admit) wondering if they had reached the exact mid-point in the opera, which would entitle everyone to refunds. BTW, neither conductor died "on the spot." Both died later in hospital, Mottl nearly two weeks later, which gave him time to marry his longtime mistress. Both were comparatively young as conductors go, Keilberth 60 and Mottl 54. Schnorr von Carolsfeld, the first Tristan, didn't even make it to 30.
The connection between Hitler and Wagner music mean nothing more than coincidence when it comes to his war plans and methods. Way too many normal people like Wagner music without being insane, violent or war like. 😂
I had recently learned about Wagner and Bayreuth through Friedrich Nietzsche very interesting to say the least. Also the Nibelungen is an excellent opera.
This is crazy to pin this on a composer who was years prior to Hiltler, I feel you have not understood or undertaken a review of why the antisemitic feelings were there in Germany at that time. A extremely one sided evaluation of the issue, and I am Jewish by heritage.....
Thank you so much for the video! This was quite informative. One question: during the part of the video where Wagner‘s wife in her diary, quotes Wagner , saying, “ all Jews should burn in a performance of Nathan”, what would a “performance of Nathan” be?
Thank you for your kind words. The quote you were asking about is referring to a tragedy that happened while the performance of Gotthold Ephraim Lessing's "Nathan the Wise", which highlights the principles of humanism and tolerance during the Enlightenment. In her diary, Cosima Wagner is referring to a correspondence with her husband where she had told him about a fire in a Vienna theater which killed hundreds of people, half of them Jews, during a performance of Lessing's play. Wagner replied: "All Jews should burn to death in a performance of 'Nathan'."
I totally agree with S.Hunter279. And further: calling Wagner's music "Bombastic" is a proof of lack of musicallity. Look at "BBC Great composer: Wagner" where for instance the "jewish" genius Georg Steiner is (as about Triumph des Willens grom Leni Riefenstahl) making sense; as dit Stephen Fry and Daniel Barenboim who had the guts to do Wagner in Tel Aviv. Wagners real father was a jew (Josef Geyer) and in the days of Wagner antisemitism was endemic in Europe (that is the reason Theodor Herzl invented ). Mendelssohn for instance (who father was a banker and bought an orchestra for him) took the name Bartoldy to have a chance of becoming a high function in music, as Mahler who became katholic to become the director of the Vienna Opera. When I heard the ouverture to Lohengrin for the firsttime a mas flabeergested, overwhelm to what he did with violins, bases and contrabases...in a fine building up of an fantastic subtile climax.....Your documenairy is a piece of jalous gossip, it is nearly pathetic. And like Wagners (ex)friend Nietsche ("Gott ist Tot) I would say: "Alle Lust will Ewigkeit, nur Ewigkeit" and then a performance of 5 hours (like I saw in the beste concerthouse of the world with the best orchestra of the world in Amsterdam: "Het Concertgebouworkest") is like a good essential existentialistic dream. Thank you Wagner, but also thank you Johann Sebastiaan Bach, thank you Felix Mendelssohn, thank you Debussy (who composed "Golliwogs Cakewalk" as a variation of the Tristan motive). I would dream of having a tiny little bit (1%?) of the originality, creativeness and productiveness of Richard Wagner!
I find his music absolutely transcendent. I've loved it since I was a kid. Anyone ascribing some inherent, corrupting evil to such art as an excuse to censor it is the work of a corrupt coward themselves.
I love Wagner musically, not from a philosophical or political point of view (admitting he had a stable political point of view, which I am not sure, too much of an anarchic for sure). Neither I like how he dystorted Nordic mythology to his needs. But the notes are more than enough, and just them make him not the type of man born once every century but once every millennium.
It is very unlikely that Hitler understood R. Wagner's music. He was particularly interested in the old Germanic content that glorified heroism. Combined with the heroic flair and the magical effect, this was the most suitable stimulation for the soldiers to War. R. Wagner was a fanatical anti-Semite. He served as a useful idiot with his operas for Hitler's purposes. Incidentally, the festival in Bayreuth was absolutely dependent on financial support from the state. Without subsidies, Bayreuth would have been insolvent immediately. This is also how the affinity of the Wagner family to the Nazis is to be understood.
Puerile, kinder garden level appraisal of Wagner. They practically want you to dismiss the man AND his music now. Imagine something so infantile as having a warning label on a CD case: "Warning may cause megalomania and anti-semitism." Get real.
Absolute genius and absolute madman. Talking about Wagner, of course. That is part of his charm, so to say. We love his art but we question his ideas. Sometimes, the world needs a dark but grandiose figure such as Wagner. He shows how complex humanity can be. How greatness can also be mingled with wickedness. We are humans after all. No one is perfect.
He knew exactly what he was doing. His messages stories and music itself was harmful. For those that dont believe this, Music therapy uses harmonies to physically physiologically and psychologically medically intervene in many instances from coma, palliative care, addiction, pain etc. These used on the contrary have caused seizures and heart attacks. But this practice as such... was developed as it is known "Music Therapy" in WWI trenches in the west. Much earlier in the east orient and Asia. He knew what he was doing. It was no coincidence and now I understand what he meant when he said it would be important in influencing society. he knew exactly what he was doing. By that account, If you are an artist or consumer, it matters. What you do and what you consume matters.
Thanks for watching. It's true that music has a special effect on human beings and is also used for therapeutic purposes. However, we can't quite understand how you came to this point in relation to this video.
Not to mention world music and what has been going on there for thousands of years, it is basically unchartered territory. A German friend once visited me in Asia and went to see Das Rheingold at the local opera house, confirming later that the locals sang well in German. I found the approach quite curious, wondering why the person didn't go to discover local music instead. Now I understand the huge spot Wagner still occupies in German musical education, which is why my friend looked to him as the reference, even travelling far away from home.
Can magnificence be understood by those who cannot understand magnificence? Surely magnificence is for those who are magnificent and only they can breed magnificence itself! What we have been shown here is the grand orchestra of life can be ran with sublime accuracy, both on and off the stage, and that only the truly magnificent can produce that which is their birth right.
Oh please leave MJ alone, he didn't do anything gross that the media said when he was still alive, he adored kids and and he let them into his house because he wasn't as cocky as other celebrities, and he really adored and cared for nature, I know his childhood wasn't easy, but even a kid that was interrogated as one of Michael's "victims" didn't know what to sa, his father told him what to say, later that kid said that nothing was true, is easy to manipulate a child, especially when a father wants the money of some very famous man. The only thing I would compare Wagner and MJ would be that both were perfectionists with their work, they knew their wn music very well and both cared for the staging. MJ is probably the most influential pop singer and dancer of all time.
@@Saxondog Two very different kettle of fish. Michael Jackson was a fine pop entertainer, whose vocal gifts transcended rather ordinary pop and R and B music. Richard Wagner is one of a small handful of the greatest composers to ever live. To my knowledge however Wagner never molested any children whereas we really don't know with Michael Jackson.
Wagner siempre a tenido un trance sin igual en mi, sus operas son grandilocuentes cómo pienso que es la vida, trágica y mortal, pero bella y con posibilidades, realista y pesimista son sus obras, que sin embargo me elevan cada que suenan en mi cabeza piezas como Rienzi O Faust
Wagner and the other German composers contributed to the massive ego-trip of the German nation that led them to seek world domination -- that cannot be denied. But their music belongs to all humanity and IS great -- that cannot be denied.
Nietzsche became critical of Wagner after hearing a performance of Parsifal, which Nietzsche interpreted as being excessively Christian. Salvation and forgiveness of sin are major themes in Parsifal, and for Nietzsche these were ideas to be outgrown.
@@karlheven8328 Yep. Apparently, Nietzsche occasionally composed music as a hobby (which I was slightly surprised by as I studied Nietzsche quite a bit when I was younger and this was never mentioned) and Wagner would roll around on the floor laughing and mocking his efforts. It's only something I read once, Karl, so I may be wrong. But yeah, Wagner's anti-semitism was one (big) reason why they fell out.
OKAY EVERYBODY! When the horrific Uncle A comes around, just soothe him! He can be soothed by Wagner! This is confirmed by documentaries! Do it and do it now!
@@f.p.2010 Why? I really want to understand Wagner, I've been trying to watch his operas, but they haven't struck me yet. It took me a couple readings to think Dante was insanely amazing, do you think it's like this with Wagner? I was really confused by his lack of counterpoint too when I first started trying it.
@@tcaw8813 he replaces traditional counterpoint with the use of leitmotifs, which in a way is a different kind of counterpoint. Later on he uses more traditional counterpoint too
Does it ruin Wagner for me? No! Does listening to Wagner’s music in excess make me sick? Absolutely not! If anything his music dispels all notions of selfishness and sin from my being and makes me want to become pure and holy. Richard Wagner proved himself the greatest composer of the 19th century and his music is a monument to mankind. While there is something to be discussed about his antisemitism, if you want to focus on that aspect, his music is more or less purified of his racial ideas. However, I’m one for separating art and artist. I am a Wagnerian, forever!
3:10 "Operas then run up to 16 hours" What a lying snake! Only the Ring Cycle, unique in the whole opera history, is around 15 hours, but we are talking for 4 operas combined! When you say "operas" that is like saying ANY OPERA from Wagner is 16 hours! 23:20 Is this some sort of unintentional compliment? (Because I know quite few of other great musicians who have died preforming - maybe the list is too long to mention it here). But the best part was the punchline at the end: Did we reach our goal? No! You failed miserably... If you want to connect Wagner with ANYBODY, I think the most important name what comes in mind is Nietzsche's superman. But you have to understand music really well, and have enough capacity to digest the deep meaning Nietzsches intensity. Wagner can help with that - but some people are beyond help... And thats a fact!
His preferred music varied over time as it does with every regular person. He always remained Wagner fan its just that it was too hurtful to him to listen to the music of his youth and ascendance in 1944/1945. Near the end he just wainted entertainment, not the heavy Wagner stuff.
Indeed, as a human being, Wagner was a rather sad excuse for one. Anti-Semite, racist, etc… But sometimes there are cases where I feel that we are obligated to separate someone's personal views from their gifts when it comes to talent in the world of art. I mean, we don’t choose to be talented, the universe or God or whoever you want to see chooses us, and this is for reasons we can’t always see. Wagner is one of those cases. His music is extremely beautiful, and he truly is one of the greatest composers in German history.
@@danawinsor1380 I meant more an awful excuse for a human being, although I didn’t voice my thoughts in the right words. Anti-Semite, anti-women, racist, etc… Not a very nice person. I will edit my comment forthwith😉
I agree with you, the same thing happened to Heidegger. He probably was anti Semite fellow but he was a great philosopher... So should we discard him? I don't think so...
I have to share this wonderful quote from Mark Owen Lee's "Wagner and the Wonder of Art :Introduction to Meistersinger." "Richard Wagner's Die Meistersinger has always called forth superlatives from those who have fallen under its spell. Toscanini wanted to lay his baton down for the last time only after he had conducted a performance of it. Paderewski called it 'the greatest work of genius ever achieved by any artist in any field of human endeavour.' H.L. Mencken declared, 'It took more skill to plan and write it than it took to plan and write the whole canon of Shakespeare.'"
Beethoven was not a nice person either, he lied and cheated and forged court documents to slander his late brother's widow in order to gain custody of nephew Karl. So why pick on Wagner? Wagner's music dramas are grand and inspirational -- to both good and bad people alike -- as are many things in life. I am Jewish and I love Wagner.
Yes, but Wagner was much worse than most. As I say,it wasn"t just that he was anti-Semitic. He hated the French too, and stole other pple"s wives, while neglecting his own and he used pple then brutally cast them away. Horrible man,but what a genius!
@@elizabethcsicsery-ronay1633 can you document that? Anyway, Wagner later seriously considered moving to Paris because of Germans! And also had plans to move the theatre to Minnesota, USA…
It's not cancelling, Wagner was a controversial figure in his time and continues to be we're giving our viewers an insight to his ideology to make up their own minds.
Wagner created music-drama so he outshines not only the Greeks, but also Mozart and Beethoven. Only Shakespeare can be said to equal his dramatic force. Wagner was, perhaps, the most brilliant artist of all time. Imperishable.
I have been listening to Wagner for over forty years and feel guilty when I kill a fly by mistake so this concept of Wagner's music being inherently evil is hard to believe. He was a confused genius and had human flaws but I don't hate him .
The answer lies in the most complicated thing in the multiverse: the brain. Read Dr. Professor Robert Sapolsky's book, "Behave, Human Behavior at Our Best and Worst ", and you will have your answer. Cheers and trebles all around!
To my taste, compared to chamber and symphony music, opera is a second-class musical genre. But Wagner is a totally different kind of composer. His operas, unlike others, are profound, spiritual, intellectual, intense and philosophical at the same time, so when one listens to them one can't help but get carried away by this impressive and astounding music. They are way far from melodic operas, such as italian and russian ones. I don't care about Wagner's beliefs. His music is what made him overcome his lifetime, as with any other great artist. Had he not written any opera, nobody would care about his antisemitism. Art and politics should never get mixed.
Oh then how can you appreciate the works of writers like Aristotle, Plato, Seneca, Cicero, and many other ancients whose views were widely different than ours but who contributed to so many great things?
The emotions Wagner's music conveys cannot be expressed with words, they are too powerful, like a force of Nature. I can still recall the first time I heard Wagner's music. I must have been 8 or 10 years old when I heard part of Tannhauser's overture on TV. I was transfixed immediately, as if the music possessed a hypnotic quality, taking me into a realm that lies beyond what humans normally experience. At that time I had never heard the name 'Wagner', but the music stayed in my memory, and later I was able to identify the genius behind this and other masterpieces thanks to a radio program. Regarding the dictator, I can only say that he had an awesome musical taste, and that he must have felt deep within himself the same emotions that I and other Wagnerites are familiar with.
Inhumane though he was, this was the one thing that reminds me that he was still just human. I cannot and will not elevate Hitler to supervillain status on the grounds that he was only a man.
Exactly so. It’s music that transfixes you, possesses you even.
The man died in 1883 leave him alone. He didn’t even know AH
Yeah sure he did nothing wrong! Hate speech and antisemitism are not that bad. 🤡
Relevance? It's about how hatefully anti-semitic he was, and how that influenced Hitler. Racist anti-semitism didn't just appear the moment Hitler was born.
@@joestrummer1962 then go after Luther or the author of the Gospel of John. It didn’t originate with Wagner’s birth either
@@joestrummer1962 Nor was it unique to Germany
When I was in my early thirties I knew nothing of opera. By chance, I attended a performance of "Lohengrin" in Vienna. It changed my life, turned me into a great Wagner and opera fan. Just like Hitler! But I'm a Jew and a scientist. Forty years later, I still love Wagner, even though his hateful ideas are known to me. His music, and the libretti, are beautiful, profound and full of love for humanity. His racial. theories are trivial, confused, stupid and wrong. They are of no interest whatsoever. The music will live on forever. Wagner was one of the greatest artists who ever lived.
The finale of Act I of Lohengrin is a miracle of composition. Wagner interweaves five voices, a full chorus, and the orchestra. I can see why it changed your life.
I'm just curious. What area of science are you in?
@@greg1mcintosh844 Particle Physics
@@stefan2292 mathematical physicist here, although my main area is gravitational physics I have worked in particle physics a bit, mainly application of topology to the magnetic charge characterization of the Higgs field
@@stefan2292 oh.....just curious, if so, what then is the nature of the universe?
"Wagner was the greatest artist of melancholy in history." Nietzsche
Nitzsche could not understand fully the transcendental approach of Wagner. Like Karl Ritter he remained on the surface. Thats why Schopenhauser was more an idol for RW. Still today most who are attracted dont understand fully but are drawn to the operas since they do tell us about 'real' life and death.
@@uraniastern5755 you have no idea what you are talking about
Please tell me where he said this. I've read through his collected works multiple times and I'm pretty sure you made this up, or got fooled.
Also hi Mr. Fin, you're gonna be mister Finnegan!
There's that part where he's talking about Wagner, then he says more generally something to the effect of "some artist have the perfect chords to say the melancholy of late autumn better than anybody, but want to make masterpieces because they're too arrogant." Or something similar, but he's not referring to Wagner
Is this a sly reference to the Wagner-Nietzsche connection?
@@johnlinley2702 didn't they have a fallout?
Hitler was obviously not a very intelligent consumer of Wagner’s music dramas. In all of Wagner’s operas there is an opposition between power and love (power is seen as the opposite of love) and all of the good characters renounce power to pursue love. Hitler obviously missed or overlooked this fundamental detail
Good comment
He was actually very intelligent that I can assure you.
@@henryhunter1876 different kind of intelligence
@@ToxicTurtleIsMad intelligent enough to do what no other human being has done.
@@henryhunter1876 you have no idea what you are talking about
Wagner was a Titan of opera and classical music along with Bach, Corelli, Mozart, Beethoven, Mahler etc. Every person great or small Jewelry or Gentile have their dark sides. Wagner the antisemite still made great music for all Humanity.
Jewelry ??? or JEWRY ???
@@puhnpicker Jewelry of course, lol.
@@danawinsor1380 😂😂😂😂
Wagner was indeed a musical Titan.
Please don't forget Berlioz. Much more humane in his ideas than Wagner.
Stephen fry's documentary is a good view about Wagner, healthy and passionate about Wagner's own personality and intentions, which is not entirely just about Hitler and Antisemitism. In fact Wagner shows the human side of Hitler, showing his interest, passion and empathy.
Aha. Empathy. Hmmm.
@@joestrummer1962 Even evil people can feel empathy. Hitler's cope was in calling people "ungerman". Eventually he declared that his entire generation of Germans were "not German enough" and therefore deserved to lose the war.
Hitler did not need Wagner to carry out his psychotic ends.
H...r's love of Wagner's music was more typical for his (H...r's) younger years. With time he began to like Franz Lehar's operettas, until eventually he liked them more than Wagner's operas. And Lehar is a very different composer.
Why mask Hitlers name? It's not like don't know who he was and what he stood for.
Antisemitism was a scourge which was part of the European society during the time that Wagner grew up. People are shaped by the society that they grow up in. As a composer Wagner is a genius and that can't be wished away. Ofc we have to condemn his antisemitic views.
When I started to listen to Wagners’ Works , I couldn’t stop listening to this inqualifiable Music , night and days . I followed the German Libretti to get inspired by a part of “ German soul “ . This Musik completely changed my mind and Word perception for a mere thirty years . Thanks god this tremendous period is back now .
You obviously must've gone mad then...
@@sirrobinofloxley7156 yes I have gone mad
What tremendous period? Nazism? Do explain, Vladimir.
Blaming the greatest artistic genius in the history of mankind for the deliriums of a mad man, in a world that was anti semitic for millenia is like blaming Jesus and other prophets for the hedious crimes of religion perpetrated in their names.
Totally agree!
Wagner a greater genious than Bach, Beethoven or Mozart? I don't think so.
Actively being anti-semitic by publishing hateful pamphlets goes a bit further than the 'casual' anti-semitism of the time, though
@@javierarreaza5601 Yes, he was a greater genius than Bach snd Mozart. Wagner was not only a great composer but a great writer (his librettos are masterpieces alone) and a great thinker. No cultural figure had a bigger impact than Wagner
@@javierarreaza5601 I think it depends upon one's field, in Wagner's case, that of opera, or as he called them, music dramas, in which he took an art form and transformed it into a super art. I would say that Beethoven reigned supreme as a symphonist, (although some are pretty mediocre), but he only wrote one opera, and frankly, that just wasn't his forte. Bach never wrote an opera, and composed several awesome musical works, but also a very great deal of frankly boring music that is largely forgotten. Ditto for Mozart. He wrote much delightful music, including several splendid operas. But the point is, Wagner's works are more complex musically, and more intellectual dramatically than anyone's. Also more innovative, especially with the use of the leitmotiv. They were also bigger, grander, indicative of a nobility of dramatic conception that must raise them to an unprecedented level. Finally is the fact that in so many of his operas, the choral and orchestral melodies are simply beautiful and mesmerizing.
It is justifiable and fair to vilify Adolf Hitler, for the man was, in his heart, vile. To do the same to Richard Wagner is not fair. He labored all his life to perfect operatic music. His music is uplifting and of very high spirituality. Wagner's shortcomings should be acknowledged and forgiven. Jewish contemporaries of Wagner were among his friends. One of the leading operatic conductors in Wagner's time was Jewish and was honored to conduct the premier of Parsifal. This video has way too much hatred in it.
HA Ha Ha!
To be fair, at the time of wagner, many high profile germans with aristocratic background were antisemitic. It wasn't a fringe thing.
Well done piece. We can never know what Wagner himself would have thought of AH. The music though, the music is transcendent.
Wagner would have despised him
I think we have abundant reason to think Wagner would have been appalled by AH and would have been just as horrified as any other decent person by the horrors of the Third Reich.
@@danawinsor1380 exactly
@@danawinsor1380
I agree.
No we never can. But it is a matter of record that all surviving members of his immediate family and two out of Wagner's three grandchildren embraced AH
“I like Wagner's music better than anybody's. It is so loud that one can talk the whole time without other people hearing what one says.” Oscar Wilde
Funny, but much of his music is quite quiet and reserved.
Only Oscar Wilde would I allow to say something like that! Fortunately, as an avowed Wagner devotee (and Oscar Wilde fan) I hope I will always keep my sense of humor! Mark Twain is supposed to have said, "Wagner's music is better than it sounds."
Gioacchino Rossini said, “ Wagner’s music has some fine moments, but awful half-hours.”
The two go hand in hand. It doesn't ruin it at all for me.
In fact................ It might even enchance it for you....................................
👍🏻👍🏻👌🏻
Lol
He had excellent taste in music. Simple as that.
I agree, Wagner was what got me into Classical music and I will forever be grateful I stumbled across his (Wagners) music. He is one of my favorite composers right next to Dvorak, Beethoven and Bach.
Wagner’s operas are about the love of a great woman who saves the man or his memory.
When I was 17 I stopped going to church and it’s all because of Wagner, his music did something to me that religion never could, I thought Wagner must be God. At 17 I knew nothing about Wagner the man but later when I started to study Wagner his music and personal life I was always able to separate the man and the music. Wagner is certainly not alone with hateful thoughts and he’s not the first and won’t be the last but I do know that he makes me feel something that is magical and pure and I will always love him for that.
Thank you for sharing your story. We appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences with our community.
If we only listened to and admired artist who were perfect in all ways, there would be no art to enjoy today.
Everyone has their bad qualities, and some are worse than others. No one is perfect, some are truly horrible
Wagners music is what is listened to and NOT his evil antisemitic rantings. Wagners music is an important part of musical and human history.
True but the real important discussion is whether the work itself is antisemitic. And I think the experience of Wagner is enhanced if you know the contradictions of the man who wrote it. Its not the sacred work of a 2nd Jesus but the expression of a deeply flawed and psychologically violent personality that still manages to touches us. What does it say about human nature?
Wagner's works are not anti semitic.
@@paulhoffmann3405 Surprisingly, in fact, Wagner's operas have less violence in them than those written by most other opera composers. And he was not known for violent behavior; and was very kind to animals.
Hm did you hear "Rienzi" or "Leubald"? Thats why i wrote psychologically violent. He hurt with words and music and called for violent actions.
Period
Anti-semitism was worldwide;very common. The musical genius is still astounding.
No doubt about his musical genius. But can one separate work and author? 🤔
I love Wagner because his music is very uplifting and inspirational.
That's not something that's favoured for Europeans to enjoy, even though it is distinctly European and German the widest spoken language in Europe. Imagine Beijing operas were frowned upon, like in the Cultural revolution, that's what's happening in Europe.
@@sirrobinofloxley7156You're sure about that, are you? Plenty of Germans and other Europeans still go and listen to Wagner operas.
@@sirrobinofloxley7156 What a pity. That attitude should beprotested. It's great muisc, great art, and it should be performed.
@@sirrobinofloxley7156 The widest spoken language in Europe is English. German is widely spoken as a first language.
A great many artists were absolutely awful people. If you cannot divorce the creator from his creation, you will end up liking no art at all.
Wagner's music is Not the soundtrack of Dictatorship. If that's the case than any music with lots of brass and bombast can
be used for dictatorship, any film sdtrk like Star Wars, or any large orchestra that can fill the auditorium with big sound.
Stephen Fry and lnspector Morse love Wagners music
Many do
As did Lt.Col Kilgore in 'Apocalypse Now' and the Warner Brother's cartoon studios!
wonderful and important document; I think unfortunately for Wagner, certain aspects of his music and life has been perverted by subsequent history.
What if he just liked Wagner's music?I bet if they found out what brand of shoes he wore they would go off on that.Stalin probably didn't even have any musical tastes.
I learned about Wagner in the 1970s. Wagner was probably banned in Poland.
- I like Wagner's music. I would like to see you at the Bahjojt festival someday.
I adore Wagner. Why emphasize his anti Semitism long after he is dead ?
Because a lunatic became his greatest fan thereafter....
@@arinaina4262 Two lunatics!
@@KingAeetes
Oooops
@@KingAeetes - I don't think King Ludwig II as a Lunatic but more eing too eccentric or idiosyncratic, a harmless at that, compared to Hit/er.
Cause wagner inspired people
Much of the world today is about the opposite and making everything grey. I mean compare triumph of the will to a modern commercial ad and you can see this negative energy in the ads where as that propaganda was about inspiring and building up
A conductor has a heart attack because of what he eats not because he was conducting Wagner.
I think the strain of waving your arms around for 4-5 hours, whilst standing in a hot and stuffy orchestra pit, might push you over the edge. Especially if you've got a bad heart to begin with.
@@ftumschk Yes. I agree. But you have to have plaques ready to break off to begin with, which can cause a heart attack at any time. But the video was not saying he had a heart attack due to physical exertion.
@@Jan96106 There was no need to say it, because conducting Tristan is onerous even for a healthy conductor. I've no doubt that, if Clemens Krauss had stayed home that day instead of conducting Tristan, he'd have been fine.
@@ftumschk No conductors of Wagners music waves or moves their hands for more than or 2 hrs at the most, and not much in quieter passages. After every Act (at least in Bayreuth) there its about a 30 minutes long pause or more, where you can have a meal in the beautiful park outside😊
@@HansRagnarMathisen-oe2jj I know, I've been there many times :)
One can separate the art from the artist. Wagner's music can be appreciated for what it is, great artistry. And simply listening to his music don't make one anti-semitic.
Apparently it makes you mad though, or dead...
I only know his music is beautiful, his sins, are other thing.
“Music soothes the savage beast.”
Not always.
" Music hath charms to soothe the savage breast". William Congreve.
We know how H/tler and his love for Wagner. Why is this documentary seems to be framing this connection between the madman and the artist much like those School shooters in the US and blaming such violence to Heavy Metal music or Rap music. Rather simplistic view from my perspective. Could used the documentary as springboard about the history and situation that shaped these two people. What they might agree and what might not agree. Why not discuss King Ludwig II and his direct patronage to Wagner and the things that developed with the interaction between the two.
Wagner died in 1883 & he was not the only one who had stupid ideas. I think the difference lies in the extent: what would have Wagner done if confronted with the moral dilemma of actually knowing people were being sent to their deaths? We can't tell.
Of course we can tell, he'd laugh at the idea, knowing that of course it never happened!
@@sirrobinofloxley7156 Some act you've got going there.
To put it simply, music is a higher revelation than politics or any narrow ideology. I think everybody who truly loves art knows it. I find the stand of that artist condemning Wagner music to be purely ignorant..typical cancel culture....
Joseph Stalin, a mass murderer also had his favorite piece of music as well: Mozart piano Concerto 20 D minor.....so what?!
But Wagner was an anti-fascist. He spent 12 years in Switzerland because of his political activities. Also, Hitler was born after Wagner died.... Yes Wagner was a hideous anti-Semitic, he was also an inventive musical genius that changed Western music that still affects us to this day. Unfortunately we have to take good with the bad when assessing Wagner' s influence. Hitler left only death and destruction...Wagner left magnificent music wrapped in a racist, narcissistic personality.
Wagner was ome of the greatest composers ever.
He changed the opera so drastically into modernity than no one else.
He would have been considered as the greatest german composer, if who wouldn't have been an antisemetic
What?
Bach, Beethoven?
Many of the facts mentioned in this documentary have been shown to be false or at least debatable. You can find a well documented reference in the following book Hitler's Wagner: A Very Thin Book Every Word the "Disciple" Said About His "Prophet".
Wagner war ein großer Künstler. Hitler war begeistert von seiner Musik wie auch viele andere Menschen, auch Menschen die der genaue Gegensatz von Hitler sind, Wagnerfan waren und sind!
Rienzi has nothing to do with the Roman Empire, the action passes in Rome, but in XIV century.
I have learned to distinguish between the art and the artist. I can consume or enjoy a magnificent piece of art without embracing the artist as a person.
Exactly, examples abound. Picasso is the first one to come to my mind.
So, we have a dude who belongs to a band, and he offers us his opinion about one of the greatest composers who ever lived. Why? Who cares? Even worse, he writes pop tunes about him. And, to top it all up, he finds it problematic that Wagner is "still celebrated today"!!! As if we know what the moral character or political convictions of all great artists of the past was. And as if we should care! Wagner is celebrated for his masterpieces, not for his moral character. And, for all his moral failings, he died before Hitler was born. Wagner's antisemitism was, unfortunately, the norm at his time. Following the silly cancel logic, we should stop admiring the pyramids in Egypt - after all, these architects were working for a tyrannical Pharaoh. Barenboim sets the right example. And, for those who perhaps do not know, he is one of the greatest conductors alive, and of course he is Jewish.
And his band is called "RotFront." Need I say more?
Wagner's antisemitism and Hitler's adoration of him are troubling to be sure. But there's no denying Wagner's musical genius and I love his music, and thus far I've been able to separate his antisemitism, and his overall unpleasantness as a person from his music. To me fortunately his anti semitism is not expressed in his music, except for the subtle antisemitism and Meistersinger. I suppose if Wagner had written an overtly antisemitic opera that would have been a line to cross that would have been unacceptable, but fortunately I feel I can enjoy his music without having to deal with his antisemitism.
Everybody talks about Wagner's antisemitism as if that were his only fault. He was a narcissist,(although he merited it more than others) who took from others, treated them like sh..., took his benefactor"s wives, stole from Berlioz and Liszt. Betrayed Liszt at the end when Liszt was his main patron. I could go on and on, but he was indisputably a genius.
sorry, stole musical elements from Berlioz and Liszt, not anything material.
Now we gonna cancel Tchakovsky because of The War in Ukraine and Putin.
On July 20, 1968 I was a college student in the gallery of the Bayerische Staatsoper the night Joseph Keilberth collapsed while conducting Act 2 of Tristan und Isolde. There was a dull thud, the orchestra suddenly went silent, the two singers turned toward the pit with startled expressions, and the curtain came crashing down. A few minutes later, an announcement was made that Keilberth had taken ill, and continuing the performance was not possible. Everyone filed out in stunned silence, except for one couple (fellow Americans, I'm ashamed to admit) wondering if they had reached the exact mid-point in the opera, which would entitle everyone to refunds. BTW, neither conductor died "on the spot."
Both died later in hospital, Mottl nearly two weeks later, which gave him time to marry his longtime mistress. Both were comparatively young as conductors go, Keilberth 60 and Mottl 54. Schnorr von Carolsfeld, the first Tristan, didn't even make it to 30.
That’s crazy. Then he gave Wagner’s operas a bad name. His operas were old Europe. Old Germany. Maypole Bavarian Germany.
There's nothing old about the direction he took music.
The connection between Hitler and Wagner music mean nothing more than coincidence when it comes to his war plans and methods.
Way too many normal people like Wagner music without being insane, violent or war like. 😂
I'm a Wagner from the Caribbean. And it's like we don't even exist there. But in Germany a whole next level.
I had recently learned about Wagner and Bayreuth through Friedrich Nietzsche very interesting to say the least. Also the Nibelungen is an excellent opera.
This is crazy to pin this on a composer who was years prior to Hiltler, I feel you have not understood or undertaken a review of why the antisemitic feelings were there in Germany at that time. A extremely one sided evaluation of the issue, and I am Jewish by heritage.....
Thank you so much for the video! This was quite informative. One question: during the part of the video where Wagner‘s wife in her diary, quotes Wagner , saying, “ all Jews should burn in a performance of Nathan”, what would a “performance of Nathan” be?
Thank you for your kind words. The quote you were asking about is referring to a tragedy that happened while the performance of Gotthold Ephraim Lessing's "Nathan the Wise", which highlights the principles of humanism and tolerance during the Enlightenment. In her diary, Cosima Wagner is referring to a correspondence with her husband where she had told him about a fire in a Vienna theater which killed hundreds of people, half of them Jews, during a performance of Lessing's play. Wagner replied: "All Jews should burn to death in a performance of 'Nathan'."
@@DWHistoryandCulture Is this correspondence extant, or are we relying on Cosima's diary?
@@DWHistoryandCulture That's really ugly.
I totally agree with S.Hunter279. And further: calling Wagner's music "Bombastic" is a proof of lack of musicallity. Look at "BBC Great composer: Wagner" where for instance the "jewish" genius Georg Steiner is (as about Triumph des Willens grom Leni Riefenstahl) making sense; as dit Stephen Fry and Daniel Barenboim who had the guts to do Wagner in Tel Aviv. Wagners real father was a jew (Josef Geyer) and in the days of Wagner antisemitism was endemic in Europe (that is the reason Theodor Herzl invented ). Mendelssohn for instance (who father was a banker and bought an orchestra for him) took the name Bartoldy to have a chance of becoming a high function in music, as Mahler who became katholic to become the director of the Vienna Opera. When I heard the ouverture to Lohengrin for the firsttime a mas flabeergested, overwhelm to what he did with violins, bases and contrabases...in a fine building up of an fantastic subtile climax.....Your documenairy is a piece of jalous gossip, it is nearly pathetic. And like Wagners (ex)friend Nietsche ("Gott ist Tot) I would say: "Alle Lust will Ewigkeit, nur Ewigkeit" and then a performance of 5 hours (like I saw in the beste concerthouse of the world with the best orchestra of the world in Amsterdam: "Het Concertgebouworkest") is like a good essential existentialistic dream. Thank you Wagner, but also thank you Johann Sebastiaan Bach, thank you Felix Mendelssohn, thank you Debussy (who composed "Golliwogs Cakewalk" as a variation of the Tristan motive). I would dream of having a tiny little bit (1%?) of the originality, creativeness and productiveness of Richard Wagner!
I find his music absolutely transcendent. I've loved it since I was a kid.
Anyone ascribing some inherent, corrupting evil to such art as an excuse to censor it is the work of a corrupt coward themselves.
I love Wagner musically, not from a philosophical or political point of view (admitting he had a stable political point of view, which I am not sure, too much of an anarchic for sure). Neither I like how he dystorted Nordic mythology to his needs. But the notes are more than enough, and just them make him not the type of man born once every century but once every millennium.
It is very unlikely that Hitler understood R. Wagner's music. He was particularly interested in the old Germanic content that glorified heroism. Combined with the heroic flair and the magical effect, this was the most suitable stimulation for the soldiers to War. R. Wagner was a fanatical anti-Semite. He served as a useful idiot with his operas for Hitler's purposes. Incidentally, the festival in Bayreuth was absolutely dependent on financial support from the state. Without subsidies, Bayreuth would have been insolvent immediately. This is also how the affinity of the Wagner family to the Nazis is to be understood.
He was literally thinking about becoming an opera writer due to his admiration for Wagner. But he wasn't a good writer at the end. 🤣
You just wrote a load of nonsense...
@@sirrobinofloxley7156 What do you mean ? Explain your point of view and then prove that it makes sense.
Wagner was a genius. Modern sensitivities aside, you can’t condemn good music.
Puerile, kinder garden level appraisal of Wagner. They practically want you to dismiss the man AND his music now. Imagine something so infantile as having a warning label on a CD case: "Warning may cause megalomania and anti-semitism." Get real.
Absolute genius and absolute madman. Talking about Wagner, of course. That is part of his charm, so to say. We love his art but we question his ideas. Sometimes, the world needs a dark but grandiose figure such as Wagner. He shows how complex humanity can be. How greatness can also be mingled with wickedness. We are humans after all. No one is perfect.
He knew exactly what he was doing. His messages stories and music itself was harmful. For those that dont believe this, Music therapy uses harmonies to physically physiologically and psychologically medically intervene in many instances from coma, palliative care, addiction, pain etc. These used on the contrary have caused seizures and heart attacks. But this practice as such... was developed as it is known "Music Therapy" in WWI trenches in the west. Much earlier in the east orient and Asia. He knew what he was doing. It was no coincidence and now I understand what he meant when he said it would be important in influencing society. he knew exactly what he was doing. By that account, If you are an artist or consumer, it matters. What you do and what you consume matters.
Thanks for watching. It's true that music has a special effect on human beings and is also used for therapeutic purposes. However, we can't quite understand how you came to this point in relation to this video.
❤ Richard Wagner Masterful 🎶 Music Ride of the Valkyries, Parcival, Gotterdammerung Seigfried Funeral March
Not to mention world music and what has been going on there for thousands of years, it is basically unchartered territory. A German friend once visited me in Asia and went to see Das Rheingold at the local opera house, confirming later that the locals sang well in German. I found the approach quite curious, wondering why the person didn't go to discover local music instead. Now I understand the huge spot Wagner still occupies in German musical education, which is why my friend looked to him as the reference, even travelling far away from home.
Can magnificence be understood by those who cannot understand magnificence? Surely magnificence is for those who are magnificent and only they can breed magnificence itself! What we have been shown here is the grand orchestra of life can be ran with sublime accuracy, both on and off the stage, and that only the truly magnificent can produce that which is their birth right.
"Can magnificence be understood by those who cannot understand magnificence?" Um, no. And that's the most cogent thing you wrote.
Wagner was a supremely gifted composer. Listen to him for the music even while being aware of his failings as a person. Just like Michael Jackson.
Michael Jackson? Do you mean the character in P.G. Wodehouse's Psmith books? I didn't realise anybody read them any more but I'm pleasantly surprised.
I thought about MJ, too. All the people giving Wagner a pass, would they, do they, give Jackson a pass, too?
Oh please leave MJ alone, he didn't do anything gross that the media said when he was still alive, he adored kids and and he let them into his house because he wasn't as cocky as other celebrities, and he really adored and cared for nature, I know his childhood wasn't easy, but even a kid that was interrogated as one of Michael's "victims" didn't know what to sa, his father told him what to say, later that kid said that nothing was true, is easy to manipulate a child, especially when a father wants the money of some very famous man.
The only thing I would compare Wagner and MJ would be that both were perfectionists with their work, they knew their wn music very well and both cared for the staging. MJ is probably the most influential pop singer and dancer of all time.
Now I know this world has gone crazy... To compare a pop artist to one of the musical greats defies logic, emotion and awareness.. Sheesh!
@@Saxondog Two very different kettle of fish. Michael Jackson was a fine pop entertainer, whose vocal gifts transcended rather ordinary pop and R and B music. Richard Wagner is one of a small handful of the greatest composers to ever live. To my knowledge however Wagner never molested any children whereas we really don't know with Michael Jackson.
Tremendous : I mean the incredible impact Wagner’s music had to my saoul
soul
saoul means drunk in French
soul
So Wagner is cancelled then ? Oh dear!
No has not been cancelled.
Wagner siempre a tenido un trance sin igual en mi, sus operas son grandilocuentes cómo pienso que es la vida, trágica y mortal, pero bella y con posibilidades, realista y pesimista son sus obras, que sin embargo me elevan cada que suenan en mi cabeza piezas como Rienzi O Faust
1:35 real recognizes real
Because he had good taste in music.
Wagner and the other German composers contributed to the massive ego-trip of the German nation that led them to seek world domination -- that cannot be denied. But their music belongs to all humanity and IS great -- that cannot be denied.
How low has DW fallen.
Nietzsche ended up hating his old friend Wagner
@@gts3004 thus spoke Zarathustra
@@gts3004 Nietzsche himself was endorsed by the Nazis too
Nietzsche became critical of Wagner after hearing a performance of Parsifal, which Nietzsche interpreted as being excessively Christian. Salvation and forgiveness of sin are major themes in Parsifal, and for Nietzsche these were ideas to be outgrown.
@@johnbostrom3923 his antisemitism was another reason!
@@karlheven8328 Yep. Apparently, Nietzsche occasionally composed music as a hobby (which I was slightly surprised by as I studied Nietzsche quite a bit when I was younger and this was never mentioned) and Wagner would roll around on the floor laughing and mocking his efforts. It's only something I read once, Karl, so I may be wrong. But yeah, Wagner's anti-semitism was one (big) reason why they fell out.
Hitlers favorite composer was actually Bruckner.
I've never ever heard that. What's your source?
Self flagellating the Germans, their great nation, language and culture is what sustains DW. 🇩🇪
Äußerst bedauerlich
Die DW ist zutiefst antideutsch.
Huge fan of Wagner. I’ve studied his music and history. The man was a musical and artistic genius. Love his music.
But we only need Mozart's symphonies.
You're obviously mad by now then
@@laurenth7187 not gonna lie, I don’t think I could go through his entire Ring Cycle.
The fact that Wagner was a jerk, does not alter the fact that he was the greatest composer of opera in German.
@@valerietaylor9615 Except for Mozart
A shallow waste of time, much better spent on actually listening to Wagner's music.
I wonder if John Williams was inspired by Richard Wagner when he wrote the Imperial March for Star Wars.
Most likely Wagner or Gustav Holst planet Mars movement
@@heraldojacques8386 Holst was influenced by W as were a lot of other composers.
Wagner is the greatest. Stop blaming Wagner for hitlers madness.
Can you make another video explaing why Strauss was head of Reichmusikkammer?
OKAY EVERYBODY! When the horrific Uncle A comes around, just soothe him! He can be soothed by Wagner! This is confirmed by documentaries! Do it and do it now!
every idiot knows that H‘s favorite piece was the merry widow.
"Wagner's music is better than it sounds." -- Mark Twain
Pretty sure twain hated Wagner. He thought it wasn't very contrapuntal and boring
@@tcaw8813 ironic because Wagner hated counterpoint, at least up to his second half of life
@@f.p.2010 Why? I really want to understand Wagner, I've been trying to watch his operas, but they haven't struck me yet. It took me a couple readings to think Dante was insanely amazing, do you think it's like this with Wagner? I was really confused by his lack of counterpoint too when I first started trying it.
@@tcaw8813 he replaces traditional counterpoint with the use of leitmotifs, which in a way is a different kind of counterpoint. Later on he uses more traditional counterpoint too
@@tcaw8813 and Wagner called counterpoint something like The academic music without soul or something along those lines
Does it ruin Wagner for me? No! Does listening to Wagner’s music in excess make me sick? Absolutely not!
If anything his music dispels all notions of selfishness and sin from my being and makes me want to become pure and holy. Richard Wagner proved himself the greatest composer of the 19th century and his music is a monument to mankind. While there is something to be discussed about his antisemitism, if you want to focus on that aspect, his music is more or less purified of his racial ideas. However, I’m one for separating art and artist. I am a Wagnerian, forever!
Very well presented. I enjoyed this short documentary. More Power to DW!
Glad you enjoyed it!
@DWHistoryandCulture Ausgezeichnet!
3:10 "Operas then run up to 16 hours" What a lying snake! Only the Ring Cycle, unique in the whole opera history, is around 15 hours, but we are talking for 4 operas combined! When you say "operas" that is like saying ANY OPERA from Wagner is 16 hours! 23:20 Is this some sort of unintentional compliment? (Because I know quite few of other great musicians who have died preforming - maybe the list is too long to mention it here). But the best part was the punchline at the end: Did we reach our goal? No! You failed miserably... If you want to connect Wagner with ANYBODY, I think the most important name what comes in mind is Nietzsche's superman. But you have to understand music really well, and have enough capacity to digest the deep meaning Nietzsches intensity. Wagner can help with that - but some people are beyond help... And thats a fact!
Hitler's favourite opera/etta was actually Ferenc Lehár's Die lustige Witwe. Not so good 'Music To Invade Poland To.'
His preferred music varied over time as it does with every regular person.
He always remained Wagner fan its just that it was too hurtful to him to listen to the music of his youth and ascendance in 1944/1945.
Near the end he just wainted entertainment, not the heavy Wagner stuff.
Indeed, as a human being, Wagner was a rather sad excuse for one. Anti-Semite, racist, etc… But sometimes there are cases where I feel that we are obligated to separate someone's personal views from their gifts when it comes to talent in the world of art. I mean, we don’t choose to be talented, the universe or God or whoever you want to see chooses us, and this is for reasons we can’t always see. Wagner is one of those cases. His music is extremely beautiful, and he truly is one of the greatest composers in German history.
Awful excuse of a life? I wish you would explain. It's so easy to generalize, in this case negatively.
@@danawinsor1380 I meant more an awful excuse for a human being, although I didn’t voice my thoughts in the right words. Anti-Semite, anti-women, racist, etc… Not a very nice person. I will edit my comment forthwith😉
I agree with you, the same thing happened to Heidegger. He probably was anti Semite fellow but he was a great philosopher... So should we discard him? I don't think so...
Since when was Wagner "anti-women"? He loved them a little too much. ;)@@Tennisisreallyfun
@@Tennisisreallyfun Extremely selfish. He used pple. It wasn"t just anti-semitism.
The mockery of culture is the problem. It never ends.
I didn't know until now that Wagner had written an unfinished opera.
Glad we could tell you something new 😊
I have to share this wonderful quote from Mark Owen Lee's "Wagner and the Wonder of Art :Introduction to Meistersinger."
"Richard Wagner's Die Meistersinger has always called forth superlatives from those who have fallen under its spell. Toscanini wanted to lay his baton down for the last time only after he had conducted a performance of it. Paderewski called it 'the greatest work of genius ever achieved by any artist in any field of human endeavour.' H.L. Mencken declared, 'It took more skill to plan and write it than it took to plan and write the whole canon of Shakespeare.'"
I don't agree with them.
Beethoven was not a nice person either, he lied and cheated and forged court documents to slander his late brother's widow in order to gain custody of nephew Karl. So why pick on Wagner? Wagner's music dramas are grand and inspirational -- to both good and bad people alike -- as are many things in life. I am Jewish and I love Wagner.
Yes, but Wagner was much worse than most. As I say,it wasn"t just that he was anti-Semitic. He hated the French too, and stole other pple"s wives, while neglecting his own and he used pple then brutally cast them away. Horrible man,but what a genius!
@@elizabethcsicsery-ronay1633 can you document that? Anyway, Wagner later seriously considered moving to Paris because of Germans! And also had plans to move the theatre to Minnesota, USA…
Why cant you see that Netanyahu is as bad as this fellow?..
DW doing its very very best to cancel one of Germany's best composers.
It's not cancelling, Wagner was a controversial figure in his time and continues to be we're giving our viewers an insight to his ideology to make up their own minds.
lol, soon we'll be saying that the romans "cancelled" jesus, it doesnt even make sense
Wagner created music-drama so he outshines not only the Greeks, but also Mozart and Beethoven. Only Shakespeare can be said to equal his dramatic force. Wagner was, perhaps, the most brilliant artist of all time. Imperishable.
I have been listening to Wagner for over forty years and feel guilty when I kill a fly by mistake so this concept of Wagner's music being inherently evil is hard to believe. He was a confused genius and had human flaws but I don't hate him .
I hate Wagner personally, but never his music.
@@valerietaylor9615 then you must hate a lot of people. Stop hating, if you do it prolongs your life!
The answer lies in the most complicated thing in the multiverse: the brain. Read Dr. Professor Robert Sapolsky's book, "Behave, Human Behavior at Our Best and Worst ", and you will have your answer. Cheers and trebles all around!
To my taste, compared to chamber and symphony music, opera is a second-class musical genre. But Wagner is a totally different kind of composer. His operas, unlike others, are profound, spiritual, intellectual, intense and philosophical at the same time, so when one listens to them one can't help but get carried away by this impressive and astounding music. They are way far from melodic operas, such as italian and russian ones. I don't care about Wagner's beliefs. His music is what made him overcome his lifetime, as with any other great artist. Had he not written any opera, nobody would care about his antisemitism. Art and politics should never get mixed.
Love the art, not the artist, I guess. Yet I still can't get passed Wagner's beliefs, and they have definitely ruined my experience of his music.
Oh then how can you appreciate the works of writers like Aristotle, Plato, Seneca, Cicero, and many other ancients whose views were widely different than ours but who contributed to so many great things?
@@Moribus_Artibus well said.
He was very similar to today's so-called Israel...
Well，sounds like a cultural revelution is going on in Germany ...
The Germans - unlike other peoples - have looked their overwhelming guilt squarely in the face and are resolved never to let it happen again.
? What exactly do you mean?
I know what you mean