I much appreciate both of y'all. I have gained some confidence thru y'all and I'm getting my endorsement this weekend. Much love and when your ready to give away a shirt 🎽 I'll email like so many fail to do😉 Thank you for all y'all do.
I think there is another angle to the “sport tourer question”. I am 50+. I own a 2019 Ninja 1000. If the question is “what is the sportiest bike that I can ride with wind protection without ergos that will will crush my back” there are only a few answers: Ninja 1000, Ducati Supersport, Tracer 9 GT. The Tuono is on the edge. The fact that Suzuki just rolled out the new GSX1000GT and Honda just announced a new 1100 cc Sport tourer (Europe only for now) shows that there is a market for sporty comfortable bikes. Personally I have not purchased panniers, and I don’t intend to tour. I have an Akrapovic exhaust and I have taken it to the track. It is not as a sharp as the “pure” race-style bikes, it it is more than enough bike for my skills. I love it and if I am ever going to replace it I will be looking for a bike in the same segment.
@@ashten92 The irony of a bike named for a race hill that bikes are no longer allowed to travel up. (Pike's Peak banned motorcycles last year for whatever inane reason.)
Our options for "sport tourers" - 700+ lb behemoths, converted sport bikes with short wheelbases and cramped seating and so-called ADV bikes with stratospheric seat heights. How I long for a modern version of the original Kawasaki Concours.
The CBR500R was a surprisingly decent sport tourer when tossing on a tail bag, double bubble windscreen, and different seat. It had decent wind protection, upright seating position, stable on the highway, and would get 60+mpg with a 4.5 gallon gas tank. It's a good broke man's sport tourer.
I agree completely! I’m currently rocking a 2019 with 20k miles on the clocks. I’ve owned plenty of bikes over the years and this one is a gem for sure.
This is what i used to use to do distance on. It eventually hurt my back and i couldn’t ride it for more than 10mins without back issues :( Went to a versys 650 with the upright seating and im never looking back lol
@@Jagknorr That's why I sold mine. The position of the clip ons and seat would bother my shoulders and back really bad after an hour. That's not the bikes fault as much as it's my body being beat up from auto detailing for 13 years.
I got a 2016 bmw r1200rs last year. Bmw side bags and shad top box. I didn't want 19 or 21 wheels, i don't ride offroad. With bar risers it is supremely comfy and wife can 2 up long distance. Rode 600 miles from seattle, down the washington coast to cannon beach oregon over to portland then i5 back in a day. Could have done it again the next day. Lots of twisty roads and freeway, plenty of passing power and cornering. Triple digit backroad speeds and averaged over 50 mpg. That is a do it all sport tourer. Love it. And no chain to lube.
40:30 Yes, one of the big reasons I bought the Kawasaki Concours 14 back in 2008 is that it had shaft drive, electric windshield, and ABS. Still have it, and it has been a great trouble-free sport-tourer that eats up big miles without tiring me out. As to evolving, I would now look to a large Adventure bike with just enough off-road capability to do dirt roads, logging or jeep roads, but not trails, and be able to give me a comfortable, sporting ride on highways - something like a Yamaha Super Tenere ES or Honda Africa Twin. B-t-W 1:31:30 you can't "lay down miles" with a Yamaha MT-10 that has terrible gas range, as one of the keys to doing distance is minimizing down time at the service station.
For many, if not most of us, we have one bike. We are blessed to live in times where the genuine Swiss Army knife bike is available. Appart from a full on race it's hard to think what my Tiger 800 XRX can't do. And it's a great sports tourer to boot.
Well it sits in the middle everywhere the 800XRX middle power, middle price, middle capacity. Wheels between a 17-21F 17-18R. A grxr1000 can go off road but it has its limitations. 800xrx is a good choice though. I was unsure about those welded rear foopegs when I was looking.
@@BennyOcean New Tiger Sport 660 looks good as does the new Aprilia. My mate loves his Versys 650 and the MT-07 Tracer is fun. Depends on age and budget. Old Versys 650's are £2500 and they seem indestructible. They are all friendly for new riders too. Try out some demos and see what you like.
First time watching/ listening to this. I immediately had to poop. It was so overwhelming, I can only deduce this podcast is to blame. I’m new to all of this , I.e. motorcycles in general. I’m enjoying the content and appreciate you all at RevZilla sharing your knowledge.
My dad had a knack for finding some really great sport touring bikes, and wasn't afraid to trade them off and try something different every few years. I think an argument could be made for some proper sport touring models coming on the scene in the very early 80's, and I believe my dad owned some of the best examples of those. The first, and still one of my all-time favorites was the '83 Yamaha XJ900 Seca. 90-some-odd hp, 530 lbs., 5.8 gallon fuel capacity, shaft drive, modest wind protection. He fitted a set of hard bags to it, and presto - we're sport touring, kids! Other notable bikes included his '84 Suzuki GS1100ES, for which dad's only gripe was the chain maintenance. He also had an "albino rhino", as he called it, which was an '82 Honda CBX 1100, complete with enough valves to make a guy lose count, factory fairing and hard bags painted pearl white with blue stripes to match the rest of the machine. If that's not early 80s sport touring, I don't know what is.
The Tracer 9 GT is one of the best touring and riding bikes I have ever owned. The funny thing about it is that people buy these “ADV” bikes to be cool and keep up with the Jones without any intentions of riding off road or actual ADV riding. No, fire trails, and dirt/stone roads are not ADV riding. They are the Jeep or mall crawlers of the motorcycle community. This not all who buy them but a mass majority. Their are a few options for great sport/adv tourers and more coming out.
I came from duel sports. I ride a F800GS I like the long travel suspension to iron out all the bumps and the wire wheels can take potholes better. I probably won't ever go off road.. I've been riding since 1996 it's just the type of bike that suits me best. I can get 80mpg on it and just got a years insurance for £42.65. And I can change my own tyres wherever I am. I'm sure that's not possible with cast 17" wheels
I ride the 2020 900 GT, I didn't buy it thinking of getting an ADV bike... I wanted a pure Sport Tourer, and I am loving it! I would buy it again, and again, and again!
@@mrv9467 that is my point exactly. People want to tour, but they are caught up in the adventure touring mindset because maybe someday they just might drive on a dirt road, lol. I would take my tracer down a dirt road anyway. They are caught up in a craze not realizing that they just buy an actual sport tour bike which are better suited to actually tour on, hit the twisties and flat out go….
Another great episode guys! Nice to see some love going towards the Ninja 1000SX. I rode one at the IMS Sonoma show earlier this year and instantly had dreams of ownership! Frankly I'm glad it's underrated to keep demand and prices low! 😁
Excellent episode as always. To give Zack some back up in the BMW naming convention it does make sense. As he stated it evolves. K = in-line 6; S = in-line 4; R = boxer; F = parallel twin; G = single cylinder. Also I’d like to vote for lance being a more regular contributor to the pod cast I liked hearing his slant on things.
Call me crazy but the sport touring bike I’m most excited for is the Triumph Tiger 660 Sport. The older I get the lighter I like my motorcycles. And with modern technology the smaller bikes have really increased performance and capability
Looked at the triumph but disliked the cheap build of some components. It's also quite a high bike and I have short legs 5.9. I opted for a low milage versus 650 and then fixed all.the stock issues, yes not cheap but a dam site cheaper than a new bike. It's now one of the best bikes I've ever owned. Hope this helps your thought.
I really enjoyed the podcast gents. I have owned a FJ900, K100, a outlet of 1200 Suzuki Bandit's well asa couple of Suzuki GSX 1400s. I have takena few to the track and toured all of them. I often ride two up, so that is important to me. I have just upgraded to a Triumph Tiger 1200 xrt. I have no real intention of taken it off road except for the occasional gravel road. But it is brilliant two up, it has all the safety kit, 140 hp, cruise, heated everything, and all day seat comfort. It also has a large carrying capacity. I love it. Cheers from down under Greg Lindsell.
Enjoying the content! I imagine that it is hard to imagine not having all the choices that we have nowadays. I grew up in the 60s and 70s. My first full size motorcycle was a Yamaha DT 175 enduro. I wasn't 16 yet so I did alot of trail riding. The bike came with trial type tires so I put a motocross tire on the rear. Back then you had to modify things to make them work! You had A and B to choose from! If you were lucky you had C! Now you have A thru triple Z to choose from!
As a long term Suzuki owner (GSX750, Freewind 650, 1200Bandit, 1000XT Vstrom) I kept asking the dealer "where's the sports-tourer?". Anyway, I gave up waiting Q1 this year and went and bought KTM1290SAS... I might have waited for the GSX-S1000GT if Suzuki had bothered to tell us it was coming. The new Tiger1200 is a year too late. Sports-Tourer needs range, comfort, wind protection and handles decent on the twisties.
It’s WAY before the riding experience of these guys but one of the most instrumental accessories to your standard “touring” motorcycle was the fairings produced by Vetter Fairing Company. The “Phantom” introduced in 1969 for the CB759 turned it into a “sport touring” bike. Later, the Windjammer popularized motorcycle touring in general throughout the 1970’s. In the early 1980’s, motorcycle manufacturers began producing their own fairings and effectively killed the accessory market that supported hundreds of dealers across the US, many of which did not survive. (Margins on fairings we’re like, 50% plus and motorcycles were just 10-20 percent.) Edit: Correction, I confess I stopped watching ONE MINUTE before Spurg mentioned his dad had a Windjammer on his XS750…thanks to the comment that pointed that out. (Yes, I went back and listened to the whole podcast…😎)
Hey guys, long time listener, first time viewer. Nice to see your "beautiful" faces. 😉 Love the content as always. On the subject of phones/vibration etc, my old 2013 Yamaha XT1200z Super Tenere killed the camera on my Huawei P30. Quad lock mount. Quad lock have now released a vibration damping mount, which they sent me for free after I told them about my issue. Good guys. Keep doing your thing, big love from Scotland! 🏴🏍️
I loved my K 1200 GT BMW. Did a 927 mile day on it once. It was fast, comfortable, and smooth, with up to 300 mile range. Then they replaced it with the 1600 which IMO looks like a small bus. I now happily ride a GS & have a Piaggio scooter for around town.
I agree "Sport touring" is a mindset or lifestyle and not just the "BIKE". I wish you guys touched upon 2UP sport touring. Where as the bike plays a greater role IMHO. I had a 2009 Ninja 250R, GF rode 2UP on the back and our only "luggage" was her wearing a back pack and some huge tank bag that was too big and kinda interfered with the handlebars. But we made it work on a 2 day trip up north to the Tunnel of Trees here in Michigan. We rode from the metro detroit area along with a BMW group of older retired people, some 350 miles up north, then back! After that trip, needs changed like you guys mentioned, so I sold the 250R and got a Ninja 650R. With its banana seat and more room, bigger engine. We then wanted to venture out further. So I had to make changes to the 650R! I bought a Corbin seat with passenger backrest, GIVI luggage V35 side cases, V46 top case, touring tall windscreen basically! That all made going up north better and all, but then we did a 5 day trip with a group of riders from Ohio in 2016! We rode the 650R through 6-7 states down south n back! After that trip it was clear the 650R "touring edition" isnt enuff. So now my sights are set on a 2015+ Concours 14ABS!!! Now If I was a SOLO rider, then for sure I'd have a Ninja 1000SX, but that bike SUCKS for 2UP riding. Unless you're going for a 20min ride up to get some ice cream at daily queen n back home! :)
Agreed. If I were doing a lot of two-up touring, I'd be looking at an FJR1300 or possibly the Concours 14. Though I have to say my VFR800 is pretty good. My wife likes the seat and the grab handles. Most of my two-up rides are closer to your Dairy Queen example than your five-day trip, however.
Three issues I didn't hear you include; 1) large alternators for aux lighting, heated gloves, jacket, inersoles, grips & seat; 2) carrying capacity, I carry 125 lbs of camping, clothes, tools, heated riding gear for my 10,000+ trips and 3) 2 up riding!
Hay guys thanks for a excellent fun pod cast on RUclips. I love listening to you two banter back and forth. My first bike was a Honda 175 SL. It was the beginning of Dual sports. I road that bike all every where the same as Lance. The longest trip I took on it was from Missoula MT to Glacier park and back. I don't remember the exact mileage but some thing like 500 miles in 3 days. There is a lot more to this story but it would take up way to much space two relate it here. Love the show.
I really can't believe that the Kawisaki ZZR didn't get mentioned on this episode. The ZZR was such a great concept, take last model year's Ninja 600, put a bigger more comfortable rider and passenger seat on it, raise the handlebars a little, make the tail luggage compatible, give it a bigger but still raked windscreen and, poof! pure sport tourer.
I have finally finished binging all back episodes, audio only, so I wasn’t worthy to make comments from the past! Now I am and it’s the first time watching the video! Busted my ACL a few weeks ago on an enduro trail with my KTM 250 XC, so a lot of time in my hands now!
Thanks for another good podcast. Gentle suggestion: have the guests speak more. You two are interesting, and you cover a lot of info and good info w/ good insights, may be good to have the guest talk more, including a tad more free-thought, unprovoked by questions.
Knowing this video is a bit aged aside, Hope ya hear this. Great content for the RUclips guys! I'm laughing watching facial reaction as much as the obvious verbal talent you all have. Great Job!! Also, super cool to get the visual aids! Love to have a look at the bike you are having on about!! Keep it up! GO MOTUL!
I'm surprised you didn't mention the 81-82 Honda CBX. Taking the original 79-80 Six and putting it in a "Sport Touring" configuration. Detuned engine for more low-mid-range torque, new frame, beefier front end, vented front disc brakes, single shock rear suspension, frame mounted faring & luggage, it was known as "The Gentleman's Express." Probably better described as a GT bike, it still had sport touring features.
Thank you Spurge for the KTM SDGT love! I currently have a 19 GT that has truly become a bike I never want to get rid of, for me it definitely is the best of both worlds for a sport touring machine.
I have owned a few sport touring bikes over the years, but I grow tired of the weight and eventually sell them. I’m excited for bikes such as the Tiger Sport 660 and Tourag 660. I was hoping that you guys would have touched on the emerging mid-weight sport touring category...but I guess that will be a topic for a future HSLS
I took my Honda Shadow 600 from Denver to Oregon and back. I had my iPhone 7 mounted to the bike with an spconnect mount. I opted to not buy their moto vibration mount before the trip. I did lose my camera halfway through the trip. I think apple stated it the camera issue is possible on all iPhones 6+ and newer.
Great discussion. Having owned two BMW RSes and in the market for a new one I'm also of the opinion that sport touring is what you do with the bike, not a bike descriptor.
I put an RS fairing on my R80/7 back in the late 1970s, what a great bike and it still lives:) On a twisty road it handled better than any contemporary Japanese bike. So by the standards of the day it was pretty sporty.
Sad thing about this is it isn't done more often 😔 I think you (sprug) and Zack make a great podcast. I listen while working at Walmart in Canada. Looking forward to yearend with Ryan fortnine. Looking forward to him cutting a helmet in half and trying to return it to revzilla. Love ❤ 😍 it!
I have been looking at sport touring bikes for the past couple of weeks because I would like to start taking longer trips to nice motorcycling destinations and my H-D Iron 1200 really is not the bike to do that stuff on…plus I kinda want a sportier bike in general. High on the list is the BMW R 1250 RS, Kawasaki Ninja 1000sx, or Yamaha XSR900, but now I have a few more to look at. Thanks for the subject matter here!
You guys had me rolling on this one. Zack: "The Fing alphabet!" Spurg: "maybe you are a sick pervert that needs help." Awesome! A ton of fun. Love listening in. Thank you team.
Man, no love for Suzuki in the 90s-2010 STs! Suzuki had the Bandit 6 and 12, and the Can-o-tuna 6 and 750. I may be slightly biased since I put 18k miles on a Katana 750 outfitted with Shad hard bags and Givi trunk. Even though this generation of STs had chains, one of the common features that helped differentiate from "normal" sport bikes was a center stand which I feel is missing from a lot of offerings today. Love the content and the dynamic you guys have; I'm always checking for new episodes. Motul, don't stop giving them money! Motul: the official oil of keeping your bike running smooth like Lance Oliver.
My first long ride was from Dallas to St. Louis to visit my mom riding a 1986 Kawasaki ZL 600 Eliminator around 1990 or so, I did it in one day because I couldn't afford a hotel. I remember when I got there my mom said look at that rear tire! It was down to metal. I also remember trying to sleep after and feeling vibrations until I fell asleep.
Like many other segments they’re evolving into “adventure” hybrids (handlebars instead of high clip-ons.) BMW calls it’s S1000XR an adventure tourer. Meanwhile it has the R1250RS, a true sport tourer many BMW riders are barely even aware of. It sits in the shadow of the GS. A few dinosaurs will stay around to give sport bikers something to retire to, but the future in tourers will be in bikes with a standard riding position.
My Triumph Trophy SE sat in the garage says the opposite. I’ve been all over the Western USA and Canada 2 Up packed with luggage, I couldn’t imagine another bike being more comfortable for getting long mileage done comfortably. It will be hard to find a replacement for sure.
CX 500, 1978 or so, not so much Sport but my buddy who would be great to interview rode his from Alaska to everywhere in the lower 48 many times. In 85 he graduated to the Goldwing as it fit his long distance ideals
I'd love to get some recommendations from you guys for navigation. Do you use/recommend your phone (on a damped mount), the connected app (if available) or the old school tom tom mounted box?
I had a hayabusa year 2000 for year's and converted it for touring and it was fantastic. I looked at the bmw 1600 but with all the servicing costs the costs of the bike and all the service issues and unreliability bad build quality of the bmw I chose not to buy. I miss the cruising power the torque which no doubt comes with the bmw 1600 however I also wanted a lighter bike these sports routers are not lite and yea they are sports routers and not off road. In the end due to cost and servicing mp gallon etc I compromised and I am glad I did. I purchased a 2016 Kawasaki versys, high in your leader board. Added some key upgrades to many to list doubling my pircjae price however it came in at such a good price. It puts a smile on my face everytime I ride it and although yes I miss the higher speed cruising the other being it's outway my loss. If anyone is interested in the ideal setup of the versys 650 and has some money to burn it would make a great show.
I also purchased a new 2016 Versys 1000LT in 2017. List in California was $12,999, so over $14000 out the door. Got mine for $10,500 out the door. Great MC for the price. Have over 45,000 trouble free miles. Have added a gear indicator, DC power outlet, Ciro phone mount, cup holder, Puig taller windscreen and Givi 56 liter top box. Got 33,000 miles on the original chain. I replaced the chain & sprocket with a 42 tooth over the 43 stock to drop the revs 500 rpm. I will consider the 2019-2021 model for all the new tech, in particular: heated grips, cruise control, cornering lights & TFT display. The electronic suspension is interesting, but not sure about the added complexity. I wish Kawasaki would add a shaft drive & an additional 20-30 hp. Still, this is the best all around MC I've ever owned. Since I've owned the Versys, I've seen maybe 12 on the road(2 were in Italy), so it definitely gives you a unique ride. Best answer I've received when asked about the name of the MC and respond it's a Versys: Versys Who! 😁
I very much agree that as Sport Touring MC go, often we pick a bike that almost meets our own definition and then upgrade it to do what we want. Several years ago I bought a Gen 1 (2011) Kawasaki ZX14 and added Corbin saddlebags and seat, Xtreem crash protection, SW Motech rear luggage rack, Bagster tank cover and bag and it has been the best bike I have ever owned. I did upgrade the suspension a bit and the brake lines and if insurance wasn't so crazy stupid (here in Canada) I would just buy this bike again, transfer my gear over to the new one and ride for another 100K and then do it again.
Handlebar and triple-clamps conduct engine vibration well. I've burned through a couple of Insta360 One X/X2 cameras mounted there on my BMW S1000RR. My Samsung S20 Ultra appears to do far better than an iPhone, at least when mounted on an X-grip mounted to the steering column. It would be great to have GoPro-type mounts for the triple-clamp/handlebar with serious levels of vibration damping for all forms of electronics: phones, cameras, data loggers, etc. Do a follow-up episode on this.
I'll stick with my 2018 Honda Goldwing Non-Tour. I did add a Shad top case for some luggage capacity. But can pop it off when not needed. Great combination of sport and touring and fits my needs.
I've toured 100k+ mi on sport bikes, adv bikes and sport tourers and found the BMW GS's to be the best all around package for me. Good power, handling, suspension and comfort...Love my R1200GSA...
Thoughts on the recently announced Guzzi V100? They haven't given much away, but a water-cooled litre v- twin with a single sided shaftie and (imho) great styling says the Italians are taking sports tourers seriously, or maybe Guzzi's audience is a little older?
My friend had the 350 Honda, his aunt and uncle owned a motercycle wrecking yard and it was a stolen recovery, any way he fixed it up and it was a great bike. Unfortunately he passed away in a motercycle accident, but yes i remember it well. Great bike.
I feel like there are several 'ADV' bikes that are more of an evolution of the traditional sport touring bikes than they are ADV bikes. I consider my Versys 1000 much more of a sport-tourer than an ADV bike, and would find it difficult to agree with classifying any bike with a 17" front wheel as an ADV bike.
Same with the 1290 Super adventure S Not to say it would be bad offroad, far from it but if you take offroad tires on a versys it would also work out good enough
It happened to my 8 pro 2 years ago on a road trip to terlingua. On the way out there too so I could only take portrait photos, regular camera would vibrate. F800ST
I have an s1000r, which I find ok for touring. Went for a run through some nice twisty country roads, and parked next to a guy on his first ride on his brand new Africa Twin. He was probably mid 60s and plainly an experienced rider. He left and I caught up with him behind some slow cars. We got past the cars and rode together, and he was not holding me up at all. He said it was plush and super comfortable. On these pretty bumpy roads I was quite uncomfortable at times. Any advantage my bike may have had over his was irrelevant and it was clear his bike was far better suited to these roads than mine. These sport tourers are probably better suited to these roads than my bike or the Africa Twin.
I've had a VFR (6th gen) for a few years now and I wanted to get something new that was similar to it but I really didn't fancy most of the stuff on the market and felt the H2SX was maybe a bit much. I cast my net a little wider and had been considering a non-factory Tuono actually but eventually decided to take a leap into the unknown and am waiting for my Energica Ribelle.
MOTUL is Awesome motor oil. The best I've ever used. The MOTUL Chain Paste is Great too and their Brake fluid 5.1 is great as well. The three products I've used by them is Great.
So strangely enough, your podcast actually was relevant to my situation. I was riding my 2013 CBR 500r around in North Jersey when I realized I was riding a sport tourer. It fit all of the criteria: 1) it looked sporty and was kinda sporty, but really wasn't; 2) it had an upright riding position and was comfortable to ride over time (It might be cramped if you are tall, but then again I don't like tall people); and, 3) with the addition of a bungee cord stowed under the seat, I had a luggage system. And to think, I thought I was riding a fake sport bike geared to dads who want to look fast, but don't want to go fast. Thanks for your useful rationalization/insight. P.S. As a Revzilla shopper I have wanted to see Zack in one of the sales videos hawking gloves, the latest update to HJC's fine line of helmets, or even the guy who wears the jeans while the other guy points out the features.
I think Suzuki has a winner on their hands. Kawasaki (and BMW R1250RS, to a degree) has been the only ST show in town for a while (and it's the top selling Kawi in Europe), so I really hope this kickstarts a new wave into real Sports Tourers. This new gen of riders haven't seen Long Way Round, so they aren't bogged down with unrealistic fantasies of crossing mountains and streams then paying 25k for a bike and gear that will never see a dirt road. Suzi is soooo close to a home run with this, but it falls slightly short. Its a bizarre omission that this lacks an IMU, remote preload adjustment, and a center stand. If it had those three things it would be the GS of the sport touring world; the standard by which all other bikes are measured.
I Iike that there are more options for sport touring. I owned an FJR and, while it was great for what it was, I am much happier on my V-Strom 650 Adventure. The power and wind protection are not nearly as good but it is more comfortable for long distance touring and much more manageable around town. I haven't taken it offroad at all yet, that's not why I bought it, but I like that I have that option as well. If price was no concern and I had to buy a new bike now. I'd probably opt for the BMW R1250 GS or a Tracer 9 GT. Although, Kawasaki is making some great looking bikes too.
I bought a BMW K1300GT new 12 yrs ago. It has been a great comfortable sporty machine that has taken me across the country on memorable tours. Having said that I likely would not buy its replacement the 1600GT which has grown too heavy and bulky. I think that's why more riders would buy the GS that has sport touring qualities plus it's lighter.
Zack is right about the letter nomenclature. You are caught up on motor configuration. GS is ADV, S is powerful sporty, R boxer touring, F middle weight street.
Over the years I've had quite a few bikes, but the sports tourers (Vfr, Futura, k1200r sport and h2sx) have stood out for me as being the most enjoyable on the road. I am 6'4, so normal sportsbikes tend to be too cramped for me.
Before i start to watch the video my opinion is as follows: I think real Sport Touring machines will have a comeback with bikes that offer a nice amount of comfort even at highway speeds (especially due to partial fairings as compared to their "offroad" counterparts), luggage and still capable of a fairly sporty ride through the twisties. And since there are still bikes like the Kawasaki Z1000SX and the all new Suzuki GSXS1000GT my hopes are up for something like a new Yamaha Fazer 1000 with differently geared R1 engine, that bike would be a killer
There’s SPORT touring, sport TOURING, and then there’s actual Sport Touring. And starting with any BMW that came fitted with a fairing and bags such as the 1968 R69S I rode as a teen. So some sort of fairing, bags, and a shaft drive and a somewhat upright riding position. ST 1100 such a beautiful but extremely heavy ST’r. And the bike(s) I currently ride, which my mechanic refers to as cult bikes, are my C10 Concours and my C14 Concours. I wish I never would’ve sold my 96 R1190RT but……..
100% agree with you! I bought a 2013 shortly after they came out, put 55K miles on it, and couldn't wait for the next-gen Trophy. When I heard they were discontinuing the bike instead, I started looking for a newer one, and eventually ended up with a 2017 factory demo (regional manager's bike) with 1600 miles, for about half price. Best kept secret in touring bikes!
The Suzuki Katana. Awesome Sport Touring Motorcycle... The Kat is underrated and underestimated Sport Touring Motorcycle. I Own two of them, 2001 Suzuki GSX-F 600 Katana. Love it. It was a Great all round Motorcycle.
Probably not the hottest take, but for me something like a Concourse/Goldwing/BMW RT/FJR1300 isn't a Sports Tourer, it's just a Tourer. It's not always the deciding factor, but when something is well over 250kg and has a shaft drive it's not really sporty, the bias is firmly in touring. To me a Sports Tourer compromises both the Sport and Touring aspects, so a VFR800/Blackbird/ZZR1200/GSF1250X/Sprint is the kind of bike I'd think of - pretty fast, pretty comfortable, can take on a passenger/luggage just fine but not as sporty as a sports bike or not as comfortable as a tourer, but more manageable than either on a daily basis. This is the segment that I think has been eroded by the ADV crowd, especially since the 650 class adventure bikes can still get you to illegal speeds very easily but are lighter, more comfortable and more versatile again than a classic sports tourer.
After a couple of years on a CBR500R and CBR650R and due to riding 2up for touring I've been looking at the ST offerings for months. I don't intend to go off road, I - subjectively - hate the size and feel of ADV's. GS, XR, Tigers, Tracers, Versys...,z After months of searching 1000SX is pillion unfriendly, FJR1300 is too big and heavy... R1250RS seems to be the winner. I'll wait to try our the new Suzu 1000GT but it looks more leaned to sport than tour. For me the 1250RS comes out as the best, jack of all trades for everything I need. And 650R to be a little bit crazy solo on the twisties :)
I've trashed 2 iphone 11 cameras on my 2015 R1200GS. Using a quadlock vibration dampener mounted to the factory gps bar. I've gone back to my pocket for now.
Yea! Lance is here! Wow less than minute in and Spurge has already named dropped KTM, why am I surprised? Had something similar for my first bike it was a 1972 CB450 that the orig owner tried to chopper up a bit. Any bike can be a "sport tourer" if just throw some bags on it. Just like any bike can be a dual sport if have enough testicular fortitude. These days if I wanted a Honda sport tourer I would go with the CTX1300. Not much in the luggage space department but other than that. I think I realized why I like Lance so much. Not only is he a font of knowledge and has some of the best stories from the road but he also reminds me of the late and great Neil Peart. Subaru Forrester, Cross Trek, and Outback are station wagons period end of story. Lance please come back soon. Penultimate, look at the big brain on Zack!
Spurg, you wrote an article once, setting up a z900 for touring. How did that trip go, and what would you say about the z900 in a sport touring capacity?
I thought it worked out great! It's very similar to what I ultimately went with regarding my pick of the MT-10. I like the MT-10's engine and suspension and additional features a little bit better over all, but I would set it up EXACTLY as I did that Z900. That was a fun article!!
@@SpurgeonDunbar Thank you! That article, along with your z900 review (2017), actually helped me when buying my z900 earlier this year. I'm looking forward to Revzilla's first ride review of the Tiger 660 whenever ya'll can get your hands on it. Long live HSLS!
Underrated point: a lot of mild ADV motorcycles amount to sport-tourers with the social license to ride on dirt roads. Consider a V-Strom 1050, which is an SV1000 with a 19” wheel and permission to get dirty. This acknowledges a reality: sport touring riders are more likely to go on a dirt road than a track day. In that context, the typical mild ADV is a great mile-eater: suspension travel is nice, the default riding position is roomy, and there’s usually luggage and wind protection options. “Wrong” wheel size or not, the typical ADV is perfectly happy on a twisty road, and probably happier than the average sport-tourer in everyday commuting. I say this as the very happy owner of a 1999 VFR800. The worst thing about riding it on a dry dirt road is that you’ll get rock chips in the lower fairing.
Surprised no one mentioned the ZX14R and Busa. Maybe a bit of a stretch (no pun intended), but with simple mods they are a lot more comfortable than a Ducati Supersport, and better wind protection than taller adv based tourers. Used ZXs can be had for very cheap, keep up with any adv tourer except maybe the S1000XR (cornering that is).
The traditional style of sport-touring bikes are some of my favorite to ride. I am curious why Lance chose a VFR800 over a Triumph Sprint ST or GT 1050, especially after all the years and miles on a Speed Triple.
The best touring bike is the one you have! BUT... as for the dearth of focused ST options - IMO the death of the Sport Tourer was when they got too obese to appeal to the performance crowd... then lightweight "ADV Sport" bikes popped up like the Multi that dropped 100+ lbs of fat and upped the power. So now those of us looking for performance sport touring buy "ADV" bikes like the Multi... and S1000XR (which used to be a bit too vibey to really be strong for touring... but people did it anyway)... or even more extreme we'd buy Tuono's or S1000R's and mount bags. But the "ADV Sport" options are getting thin... the new v4 multistrada has crossed my (admittedly fairly arbitrary) obesity threshold... I think the opportunity now exists again for a true Sport Tourer that sticks with the classic lightweight formula companies like Ducati used in the past. Many would I think be interested in new Duc ST. In our dreams it'd have the Desmo v4 in it, but even the non-desmo powerplant would result in a fantastic bike. The recipe is simple (tho maybe not so easy to execute) - Sub-500lbs wet with luggage mounted, 170+hp, more comfortable seating position than the SS, 200 mile range, clean luggage mounting points, ohlins suspenders in the S version, SSSA and other classic Ducati design queues.
Went through 4 iPhone 11s due to the mount issue (covered by insurance). The problem happens for any phone that has camera image stabilization, Samsung, Apple, etc.
The sport/adv/"crossover" thing happened back in the early '90s. I "sport toured" on a FZR1000 in the late '80s, wanted more comfort but didn't want the Adventure Touring XTZ750 - Yamaha solved the problem with the TDM850 in '92........... and Yamaha please make a MT10 Tracer........
I know this is an old pod cast but the Yamaha xs750 triple had the exact same performance as my 1975 Honda CB750 sport. My friend and I did endless roll on races and the bike were dead even. They also handled the same which was poorly.
Sport Touring bikes - the new 2020 Guzzi V100 Mandello is an example of such. Didn’t Aprilla come out with one this year with side bags (asymmetrical, oddly), a higher wind screen and more upright bars?
If joy was distilled into one single sound... It would be Spurg's half laugh, half wounded animal hiccup, whenever Zack cracks a joke. And I'm here for it.
Sorry, I think I might have confused you. I stripped the oil drain plug out of the pan. To repair it with an insert, you have to pull the engine to get at it. This is something that is true of the modern, single cylinder, 4-stroke dirt bikes in their line. And is only an issue if you gorilla paw the hell out of the drain plug. Guilty as charged.
GPZ900R! ...The FIRST bike to be marketed as a Sports Touring machine! Up to then, ALL faired bikes had been marketed as either a sports machine, OR a Tourer. There was also the "Muscle Bike" category, that sprouted fairings, but only AFTER the GPZ had become a journalist/rider favourite and won arms full of accolades worldwide, and laid the foundation for the new market segment!
Wait a minute. Are two motorcycle enthusiasts questioning the wisdom of the illustrious Mayor of NYC? JK De Blasio has proven time and again to be the worst mayor in history. Unless you live in Chicago! Expecting that he will do the right thing or anything at all is an exercise in futility.
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I much appreciate both of y'all. I have gained some confidence thru y'all and I'm getting my endorsement this weekend. Much love and when your ready to give away a shirt 🎽 I'll email like so many fail to do😉
Thank you for all y'all do.
I think there is another angle to the “sport tourer question”. I am 50+. I own a 2019 Ninja 1000. If the question is “what is the sportiest bike that I can ride with wind protection without ergos that will will crush my back” there are only a few answers: Ninja 1000, Ducati Supersport, Tracer 9 GT. The Tuono is on the edge. The fact that Suzuki just rolled out the new GSX1000GT and Honda just announced a new 1100 cc Sport tourer (Europe only for now) shows that there is a market for sporty comfortable bikes. Personally I have not purchased panniers, and I don’t intend to tour. I have an Akrapovic exhaust and I have taken it to the track. It is not as a sharp as the “pure” race-style bikes, it it is more than enough bike for my skills. I love it and if I am ever going to replace it I will be looking for a bike in the same segment.
The new Pikes Peek is going to be amazing if you ever do look for a replacement. 👍
I have a 2010 Ninja 1000. Boring but good and perfect for my needs
@@ashten92 I saw the intro video on the Pikes Peak Ducati. It does look sweet.
Try the zx14r
@@ashten92 The irony of a bike named for a race hill that bikes are no longer allowed to travel up. (Pike's Peak banned motorcycles last year for whatever inane reason.)
Our options for "sport tourers" - 700+ lb behemoths, converted sport bikes with short wheelbases and cramped seating and so-called ADV bikes with stratospheric seat heights. How I long for a modern version of the original Kawasaki Concours.
The CBR500R was a surprisingly decent sport tourer when tossing on a tail bag, double bubble windscreen, and different seat. It had decent wind protection, upright seating position, stable on the highway, and would get 60+mpg with a 4.5 gallon gas tank. It's a good broke man's sport tourer.
I agree completely! I’m currently rocking a 2019 with 20k miles on the clocks. I’ve owned plenty of bikes over the years and this one is a gem for sure.
This is what i used to use to do distance on. It eventually hurt my back and i couldn’t ride it for more than 10mins without back issues :( Went to a versys 650 with the upright seating and im never looking back lol
@@Jagknorr That's why I sold mine. The position of the clip ons and seat would bother my shoulders and back really bad after an hour. That's not the bikes fault as much as it's my body being beat up from auto detailing for 13 years.
Yup yup. Got a top case for mine and now it's utterly nerd-tastick. Much more comfy than the ninja 300 I started 'sport-touring' on.
I love Lance. It's always cool when he shows up. He ultimately said what I think; It's not what you got, it's how you use it.
I got a 2016 bmw r1200rs last year. Bmw side bags and shad top box. I didn't want 19 or 21 wheels, i don't ride offroad. With bar risers it is supremely comfy and wife can 2 up long distance. Rode 600 miles from seattle, down the washington coast to cannon beach oregon over to portland then i5 back in a day. Could have done it again the next day. Lots of twisty roads and freeway, plenty of passing power and cornering. Triple digit backroad speeds and averaged over 50 mpg. That is a do it all sport tourer. Love it. And no chain to lube.
40:30 Yes, one of the big reasons I bought the Kawasaki Concours 14 back in 2008 is that it had shaft drive, electric windshield, and ABS. Still have it, and it has been a great trouble-free sport-tourer that eats up big miles without tiring me out. As to evolving, I would now look to a large Adventure bike with just enough off-road capability to do dirt roads, logging or jeep roads, but not trails, and be able to give me a comfortable, sporting ride on highways - something like a Yamaha Super Tenere ES or Honda Africa Twin. B-t-W 1:31:30 you can't "lay down miles" with a Yamaha MT-10 that has terrible gas range, as one of the keys to doing distance is minimizing down time at the service station.
For many, if not most of us, we have one bike. We are blessed to live in times where the genuine Swiss Army knife bike is available. Appart from a full on race it's hard to think what my Tiger 800 XRX can't do. And it's a great sports tourer to boot.
Well it sits in the middle everywhere the 800XRX middle power, middle price, middle capacity. Wheels between a 17-21F 17-18R. A grxr1000 can go off road but it has its limitations. 800xrx is a good choice though. I was unsure about those welded rear foopegs when I was looking.
I owned the first GEN tiger 800 and it was a fantastic bike on the road. It may have looked adventure, but it was definitely sport touring.
To a certain extent any adventure bike, naked bike or sport torurer can be considered a Swiss army bike on its own way
If you were going to recommend one 600-ish CC "Swiss army bike" to a new rider, which would it be?
@@BennyOcean New Tiger Sport 660 looks good as does the new Aprilia. My mate loves his Versys 650 and the MT-07 Tracer is fun. Depends on age and budget. Old Versys 650's are £2500 and they seem indestructible. They are all friendly for new riders too. Try out some demos and see what you like.
Yamaha FJR and Kawasaki Concours are the gold standards for true sport tourers.
First time watching/ listening to this. I immediately had to poop. It was so overwhelming, I can only deduce this podcast is to blame. I’m new to all of this , I.e. motorcycles in general. I’m enjoying the content and appreciate you all at RevZilla sharing your knowledge.
Disgusting
My dad had a knack for finding some really great sport touring bikes, and wasn't afraid to trade them off and try something different every few years. I think an argument could be made for some proper sport touring models coming on the scene in the very early 80's, and I believe my dad owned some of the best examples of those. The first, and still one of my all-time favorites was the '83 Yamaha XJ900 Seca. 90-some-odd hp, 530 lbs., 5.8 gallon fuel capacity, shaft drive, modest wind protection. He fitted a set of hard bags to it, and presto - we're sport touring, kids! Other notable bikes included his '84 Suzuki GS1100ES, for which dad's only gripe was the chain maintenance. He also had an "albino rhino", as he called it, which was an '82 Honda CBX 1100, complete with enough valves to make a guy lose count, factory fairing and hard bags painted pearl white with blue stripes to match the rest of the machine. If that's not early 80s sport touring, I don't know what is.
The Tracer 9 GT is one of the best touring and riding bikes I have ever owned. The funny thing about it is that people buy these “ADV” bikes to be cool and keep up with the Jones without any intentions of riding off road or actual ADV riding. No, fire trails, and dirt/stone roads are not ADV riding. They are the Jeep or mall crawlers of the motorcycle community. This not all who buy them but a mass majority. Their are a few options for great sport/adv tourers and more coming out.
I came from duel sports. I ride a F800GS I like the long travel suspension to iron out all the bumps and the wire wheels can take potholes better. I probably won't ever go off road.. I've been riding since 1996 it's just the type of bike that suits me best. I can get 80mpg on it and just got a years insurance for £42.65. And I can change my own tyres wherever I am. I'm sure that's not possible with cast 17" wheels
I ride the 2020 900 GT, I didn't buy it thinking of getting an ADV bike... I wanted a pure Sport Tourer, and I am loving it! I would buy it again, and again, and again!
@@mrv9467 that is my point exactly. People want to tour, but they are caught up in the adventure touring mindset because maybe someday they just might drive on a dirt road, lol. I would take my tracer down a dirt road anyway. They are caught up in a craze not realizing that they just buy an actual sport tour bike which are better suited to actually tour on, hit the twisties and flat out go….
@@MrZeewe70 I know that was your point. Did you try riding the tracer downhill on a rocky track? I did and it was scary! LOL
Another great episode guys! Nice to see some love going towards the Ninja 1000SX. I rode one at the IMS Sonoma show earlier this year and instantly had dreams of ownership! Frankly I'm glad it's underrated to keep demand and prices low! 😁
a 1993 K75s, bought new and put over 120,000 miles on it. Didn't even know how to ride before the purchase.
Really enjoy the videos with Lance. Hope we'll see him more in the second half of series 5!
Excellent episode as always. To give Zack some back up in the BMW naming convention it does make sense. As he stated it evolves. K = in-line 6; S = in-line 4; R = boxer; F = parallel twin; G = single cylinder. Also I’d like to vote for lance being a more regular contributor to the pod cast I liked hearing his slant on things.
I like how the two guys are in fancy offices and Zack is in the coat closet. 😜
Having and office full of high end riding gear seems pretty fancy to me!
But Zach gets to live in California weather, while those in the office are in dreary Philadelphia, ha.
Call me crazy but the sport touring bike I’m most excited for is the Triumph Tiger 660 Sport. The older I get the lighter I like my motorcycles. And with modern technology the smaller bikes have really increased performance and capability
I think it's just what the yamaha fazer 600 was in 1999. And Has exactly the same horsepower as a suzuki Bandit-S from 1996
Looked at the triumph but disliked the cheap build of some components.
It's also quite a high bike and I have short legs 5.9.
I opted for a low milage versus 650 and then fixed all.the stock issues, yes not cheap but a dam site cheaper than a new bike.
It's now one of the best bikes I've ever owned.
Hope this helps your thought.
When the Tiger 660 was announced I literally called my dad and said, "I found your next bike".
I really enjoyed the podcast gents. I have owned a FJ900, K100, a outlet of 1200 Suzuki Bandit's well asa couple of Suzuki GSX 1400s. I have takena few to the track and toured all of them. I often ride two up, so that is important to me. I have just upgraded to a Triumph Tiger 1200 xrt. I have no real intention of taken it off road except for the occasional gravel road. But it is brilliant two up, it has all the safety kit, 140 hp, cruise, heated everything, and all day seat comfort. It also has a large carrying capacity. I love it. Cheers from down under Greg Lindsell.
Enjoying the content! I imagine that it is hard to imagine not having all the choices that we have nowadays. I grew up in the 60s and 70s. My first full size motorcycle was a Yamaha DT 175 enduro. I wasn't 16 yet so I did alot of trail riding. The bike came with trial type tires so I put a motocross tire on the rear. Back then you had to modify things to make them work! You had A and B to choose from! If you were lucky you had C! Now you have A thru triple Z to choose from!
As a long term Suzuki owner (GSX750, Freewind 650, 1200Bandit, 1000XT Vstrom) I kept asking the dealer "where's the sports-tourer?". Anyway, I gave up waiting Q1 this year and went and bought KTM1290SAS... I might have waited for the GSX-S1000GT if Suzuki had bothered to tell us it was coming. The new Tiger1200 is a year too late. Sports-Tourer needs range, comfort, wind protection and handles decent on the twisties.
Would you consider the busa or b king to be a sports tourer?
What about the h2sx?
It’s WAY before the riding experience of these guys but one of the most instrumental accessories to your standard “touring” motorcycle was the fairings produced by Vetter Fairing Company. The “Phantom” introduced in 1969 for the CB759 turned it into a “sport touring” bike. Later, the Windjammer popularized motorcycle touring in general throughout the 1970’s.
In the early 1980’s, motorcycle manufacturers began producing their own fairings and effectively killed the accessory market that supported hundreds of dealers across the US, many of which did not survive. (Margins on fairings we’re like, 50% plus and motorcycles were just 10-20 percent.)
Edit: Correction, I confess I stopped watching ONE MINUTE before Spurg mentioned his dad had a Windjammer on his XS750…thanks to the comment that pointed that out. (Yes, I went back and listened to the whole podcast…😎)
Spurg mentions the Windjammer on his father's Yamaha XS750 at about the 51:00 mark.
@@lanceoliver5769 thanks…I admit, I bailed early…🙄
This is my favorite episode of HSLS so far. I didn’t learn anything, but the topic was near and dear to my heart and my riding.
Hey guys, long time listener, first time viewer. Nice to see your "beautiful" faces. 😉 Love the content as always. On the subject of phones/vibration etc, my old 2013 Yamaha XT1200z Super Tenere killed the camera on my Huawei P30. Quad lock mount. Quad lock have now released a vibration damping mount, which they sent me for free after I told them about my issue. Good guys. Keep doing your thing, big love from Scotland! 🏴🏍️
I loved my K 1200 GT BMW. Did a 927 mile day on it once. It was fast, comfortable, and smooth, with up to 300 mile range. Then they replaced it with the 1600 which IMO looks like a small bus. I now happily ride a GS & have a Piaggio scooter for around town.
I agree "Sport touring" is a mindset or lifestyle and not just the "BIKE". I wish you guys touched upon 2UP sport touring.
Where as the bike plays a greater role IMHO.
I had a 2009 Ninja 250R, GF rode 2UP on the back and our only "luggage" was her wearing a back pack and some huge tank bag that was too big and kinda interfered with the handlebars. But we made it work on a 2 day trip up north to the Tunnel of Trees here in Michigan. We rode from the metro detroit area along with a BMW group of older retired people, some 350 miles up north, then back!
After that trip, needs changed like you guys mentioned, so I sold the 250R and got a Ninja 650R. With its banana seat and more room, bigger engine. We then wanted to venture out further. So I had to make changes to the 650R! I bought a Corbin seat with passenger backrest, GIVI luggage V35 side cases, V46 top case, touring tall windscreen basically!
That all made going up north better and all, but then we did a 5 day trip with a group of riders from Ohio in 2016! We rode the 650R through 6-7 states down south n back!
After that trip it was clear the 650R "touring edition" isnt enuff. So now my sights are set on a 2015+ Concours 14ABS!!!
Now If I was a SOLO rider, then for sure I'd have a Ninja 1000SX, but that bike SUCKS for 2UP riding. Unless you're going for a 20min ride up to get some ice cream at daily queen n back home! :)
Agreed. If I were doing a lot of two-up touring, I'd be looking at an FJR1300 or possibly the Concours 14. Though I have to say my VFR800 is pretty good. My wife likes the seat and the grab handles. Most of my two-up rides are closer to your Dairy Queen example than your five-day trip, however.
Three issues I didn't hear you include; 1) large alternators for aux lighting, heated gloves, jacket, inersoles, grips & seat; 2) carrying capacity, I carry 125 lbs of camping, clothes, tools, heated riding gear for my 10,000+ trips and 3) 2 up riding!
Hay guys thanks for a excellent fun pod cast on RUclips. I love listening to you two banter back and forth. My first bike was a Honda 175 SL. It was the beginning of Dual sports. I road that bike all every where the same as Lance. The longest trip I took on it was from Missoula MT to Glacier park and back. I don't remember the exact mileage but some thing like 500 miles in 3 days. There is a lot more to this story but it would take up way to much space two relate it here. Love the show.
Thanks, John!
I really can't believe that the Kawisaki ZZR didn't get mentioned on this episode. The ZZR was such a great concept, take last model year's Ninja 600, put a bigger more comfortable rider and passenger seat on it, raise the handlebars a little, make the tail luggage compatible, give it a bigger but still raked windscreen and, poof! pure sport tourer.
Agree. I had an 05 ZZR600 and regret selling it. It’s a great example of a sport bike modified by the factory for touring compatibility/road comfort.
I have finally finished binging all back episodes, audio only, so I wasn’t worthy to make comments from the past! Now I am and it’s the first time watching the video! Busted my ACL a few weeks ago on an enduro trail with my KTM 250 XC, so a lot of time in my hands now!
Thanks for another good podcast. Gentle suggestion: have the guests speak more. You two are interesting, and you cover a lot of info and good info w/ good insights, may be good to have the guest talk more, including a tad more free-thought, unprovoked by questions.
Knowing this video is a bit aged aside, Hope ya hear this. Great content for the RUclips guys! I'm laughing watching facial reaction as much as the obvious verbal talent you all have.
Great Job!! Also, super cool to get the visual aids! Love to have a look at the bike you are having on about!! Keep it up! GO MOTUL!
I'm surprised you didn't mention the 81-82 Honda CBX. Taking the original 79-80 Six and putting it in a "Sport Touring" configuration. Detuned engine for more low-mid-range torque, new frame, beefier front end, vented front disc brakes, single shock rear suspension, frame mounted faring & luggage, it was known as "The Gentleman's Express." Probably better described as a GT bike, it still had sport touring features.
Thank you Spurge for the KTM SDGT love! I currently have a 19 GT that has truly become a bike I never want to get rid of, for me it definitely is the best of both worlds for a sport touring machine.
I have owned a few sport touring bikes over the years, but I grow tired of the weight and eventually sell them. I’m excited for bikes such as the Tiger Sport 660 and Tourag 660. I was hoping that you guys would have touched on the emerging mid-weight sport touring category...but I guess that will be a topic for a future HSLS
I took my Honda Shadow 600 from Denver to Oregon and back. I had my iPhone 7 mounted to the bike with an spconnect mount. I opted to not buy their moto vibration mount before the trip. I did lose my camera halfway through the trip. I think apple stated it the camera issue is possible on all iPhones 6+ and newer.
Great discussion. Having owned two BMW RSes and in the market for a new one I'm also of the opinion that sport touring is what you do with the bike, not a bike descriptor.
I put an RS fairing on my R80/7 back in the late 1970s, what a great bike and it still lives:) On a twisty road it handled better than any contemporary Japanese bike. So by the standards of the day it was pretty sporty.
Sad thing about this is it isn't done more often 😔 I think you (sprug) and Zack make a great podcast. I listen while working at Walmart in Canada. Looking forward to yearend with Ryan fortnine. Looking forward to him cutting a helmet in half and trying to return it to revzilla. Love ❤ 😍 it!
I have been looking at sport touring bikes for the past couple of weeks because I would like to start taking longer trips to nice motorcycling destinations and my H-D Iron 1200 really is not the bike to do that stuff on…plus I kinda want a sportier bike in general. High on the list is the BMW R 1250 RS, Kawasaki Ninja 1000sx, or Yamaha XSR900, but now I have a few more to look at. Thanks for the subject matter here!
You guys had me rolling on this one.
Zack: "The Fing alphabet!"
Spurg: "maybe you are a sick pervert that needs help."
Awesome! A ton of fun. Love listening in. Thank you team.
Man, no love for Suzuki in the 90s-2010 STs! Suzuki had the Bandit 6 and 12, and the Can-o-tuna 6 and 750. I may be slightly biased since I put 18k miles on a Katana 750 outfitted with Shad hard bags and Givi trunk. Even though this generation of STs had chains, one of the common features that helped differentiate from "normal" sport bikes was a center stand which I feel is missing from a lot of offerings today. Love the content and the dynamic you guys have; I'm always checking for new episodes. Motul, don't stop giving them money! Motul: the official oil of keeping your bike running smooth like Lance Oliver.
I love my KTM superduke GT, ticks all the boxes for a perfect sport tourer to me.
My first long ride was from Dallas to St. Louis to visit my mom riding a 1986 Kawasaki ZL 600 Eliminator around 1990 or so, I did it in one day because I couldn't afford a hotel. I remember when I got there my mom said look at that rear tire! It was down to metal. I also remember trying to sleep after and feeling vibrations until I fell asleep.
Like many other segments they’re evolving into “adventure” hybrids (handlebars instead of high clip-ons.) BMW calls it’s S1000XR an adventure tourer. Meanwhile it has the R1250RS, a true sport tourer many BMW riders are barely even aware of. It sits in the shadow of the GS. A few dinosaurs will stay around to give sport bikers something to retire to, but the future in tourers will be in bikes with a standard riding position.
And these days, bikes with comfortable ergos can actually go round corners.
I got rid of my 2014 GSXR 1000 for a 2015 Suzuki V-Strom 1000 because I wanted something I could ride more than an hour on. Very happy with my choice.
I would like to see a R1250XR! the R1250R gets completely overlooked. When that's a better bike than a gs in many ways.
@@Bow-to-the-absurd the Multistrada is awesome in that regard.
@@5891jonathan awesome machine for sure
Thank you for the great content, we can't get enough of highside lowside.will we see a review of the 2022 R-6 in the near future?
Nice episode guys! My guess for the first sport touring bike would be the (1971) Moto Guzzi 850 T3 California
My Triumph Trophy SE sat in the garage says the opposite. I’ve been all over the Western USA and Canada 2 Up packed with luggage, I couldn’t imagine another bike being more comfortable for getting long mileage done comfortably. It will be hard to find a replacement for sure.
CX 500, 1978 or so, not so much Sport but my buddy who would be great to interview rode his from Alaska to everywhere in the lower 48 many times. In 85 he graduated to the Goldwing as it fit his long distance ideals
I'd love to get some recommendations from you guys for navigation. Do you use/recommend your phone (on a damped mount), the connected app (if available) or the old school tom tom mounted box?
I had a hayabusa year 2000 for year's and converted it for touring and it was fantastic.
I looked at the bmw 1600 but with all the servicing costs the costs of the bike and all the service issues and unreliability bad build quality of the bmw I chose not to buy.
I miss the cruising power the torque which no doubt comes with the bmw 1600 however I also wanted a lighter bike these sports routers are not lite and yea they are sports routers and not off road.
In the end due to cost and servicing mp gallon etc I compromised and I am glad I did. I purchased a 2016 Kawasaki versys, high in your leader board.
Added some key upgrades to many to list doubling my pircjae price however it came in at such a good price.
It puts a smile on my face everytime I ride it and although yes I miss the higher speed cruising the other being it's outway my loss.
If anyone is interested in the ideal setup of the versys 650 and has some money to burn it would make a great show.
I also purchased a new 2016 Versys 1000LT in 2017. List in California was $12,999, so over $14000 out the door. Got mine for $10,500 out the door. Great MC for the price. Have over 45,000 trouble free miles. Have added a gear indicator, DC power outlet, Ciro phone mount, cup holder, Puig taller windscreen and Givi 56 liter top box. Got 33,000 miles on the original chain. I replaced the chain & sprocket with a 42 tooth over the 43 stock to drop the revs 500 rpm.
I will consider the 2019-2021 model for all the new tech, in particular: heated grips, cruise control, cornering lights & TFT display. The electronic suspension is interesting, but not sure about the added complexity. I wish Kawasaki would add a shaft drive & an additional 20-30 hp. Still, this is the best all around MC I've ever owned. Since I've owned the Versys, I've seen maybe 12 on the road(2 were in Italy), so it definitely gives you a unique ride. Best answer I've received when asked about the name of the MC and respond it's a Versys: Versys Who! 😁
I very much agree that as Sport Touring MC go, often we pick a bike that almost meets our own definition and then upgrade it to do what we want. Several years ago I bought a Gen 1 (2011) Kawasaki ZX14 and added Corbin saddlebags and seat, Xtreem crash protection, SW Motech rear luggage rack, Bagster tank cover and bag and it has been the best bike I have ever owned. I did upgrade the suspension a bit and the brake lines and if insurance wasn't so crazy stupid (here in Canada) I would just buy this bike again, transfer my gear over to the new one and ride for another 100K and then do it again.
Handlebar and triple-clamps conduct engine vibration well. I've burned through a couple of Insta360 One X/X2 cameras mounted there on my BMW S1000RR. My Samsung S20 Ultra appears to do far better than an iPhone, at least when mounted on an X-grip mounted to the steering column.
It would be great to have GoPro-type mounts for the triple-clamp/handlebar with serious levels of vibration damping for all forms of electronics: phones, cameras, data loggers, etc. Do a follow-up episode on this.
I'll stick with my 2018 Honda Goldwing Non-Tour. I did add a Shad top case for some luggage capacity. But can pop it off when not needed. Great combination of sport and touring and fits my needs.
I've toured 100k+ mi on sport bikes, adv bikes and sport tourers and found the BMW GS's to be the best all around package for me. Good power, handling, suspension and comfort...Love my R1200GSA...
Thoughts on the recently announced Guzzi V100? They haven't given much away, but a water-cooled litre v- twin with a single sided shaftie and (imho) great styling says the Italians are taking sports tourers seriously, or maybe Guzzi's audience is a little older?
My friend had the 350 Honda, his aunt and uncle owned a motercycle wrecking yard and it was a stolen recovery, any way he fixed it up and it was a great bike. Unfortunately he passed away in a motercycle accident, but yes i remember it well. Great bike.
I feel like there are several 'ADV' bikes that are more of an evolution of the traditional sport touring bikes than they are ADV bikes. I consider my Versys 1000 much more of a sport-tourer than an ADV bike, and would find it difficult to agree with classifying any bike with a 17" front wheel as an ADV bike.
Same with the 1290 Super adventure S
Not to say it would be bad offroad, far from it but if you take offroad tires on a versys it would also work out good enough
It happened to my 8 pro 2 years ago on a road trip to terlingua. On the way out there too so I could only take portrait photos, regular camera would vibrate. F800ST
I have an s1000r, which I find ok for touring. Went for a run through some nice twisty country roads, and parked next to a guy on his first ride on his brand new Africa Twin. He was probably mid 60s and plainly an experienced rider. He left and I caught up with him behind some slow cars. We got past the cars and rode together, and he was not holding me up at all. He said it was plush and super comfortable. On these pretty bumpy roads I was quite uncomfortable at times. Any advantage my bike may have had over his was irrelevant and it was clear his bike was far better suited to these roads than mine. These sport tourers are probably better suited to these roads than my bike or the Africa Twin.
I've had a VFR (6th gen) for a few years now and I wanted to get something new that was similar to it but I really didn't fancy most of the stuff on the market and felt the H2SX was maybe a bit much. I cast my net a little wider and had been considering a non-factory Tuono actually but eventually decided to take a leap into the unknown and am waiting for my Energica Ribelle.
How is it
@@geraltofrivia4651 really good, I just finished a 3200 mile trip around Europe on it
MOTUL is Awesome motor oil. The best I've ever used. The MOTUL Chain Paste is Great too and their Brake fluid 5.1 is great as well. The three products I've used by them is Great.
So strangely enough, your podcast actually was relevant to my situation. I was riding my 2013 CBR 500r around in North Jersey when I realized I was riding a sport tourer. It fit all of the criteria: 1) it looked sporty and was kinda sporty, but really wasn't; 2) it had an upright riding position and was comfortable to ride over time (It might be cramped if you are tall, but then again I don't like tall people); and, 3) with the addition of a bungee cord stowed under the seat, I had a luggage system. And to think, I thought I was riding a fake sport bike geared to dads who want to look fast, but don't want to go fast. Thanks for your useful rationalization/insight. P.S. As a Revzilla shopper I have wanted to see Zack in one of the sales videos hawking gloves, the latest update to HJC's fine line of helmets, or even the guy who wears the jeans while the other guy points out the features.
I think Suzuki has a winner on their hands. Kawasaki (and BMW R1250RS, to a degree) has been the only ST show in town for a while (and it's the top selling Kawi in Europe), so I really hope this kickstarts a new wave into real Sports Tourers. This new gen of riders haven't seen Long Way Round, so they aren't bogged down with unrealistic fantasies of crossing mountains and streams then paying 25k for a bike and gear that will never see a dirt road.
Suzi is soooo close to a home run with this, but it falls slightly short. Its a bizarre omission that this lacks an IMU, remote preload adjustment, and a center stand. If it had those three things it would be the GS of the sport touring world; the standard by which all other bikes are measured.
I Iike that there are more options for sport touring. I owned an FJR and, while it was great for what it was, I am much happier on my V-Strom 650 Adventure. The power and wind protection are not nearly as good but it is more comfortable for long distance touring and much more manageable around town. I haven't taken it offroad at all yet, that's not why I bought it, but I like that I have that option as well.
If price was no concern and I had to buy a new bike now. I'd probably opt for the BMW R1250 GS or a Tracer 9 GT. Although, Kawasaki is making some great looking bikes too.
Video starts @ 26:15
Congrats on 1 million!
I bought a BMW K1300GT new 12 yrs ago. It has been a great comfortable sporty machine that has taken me across the country on memorable tours. Having said that I likely would not buy its replacement the 1600GT which has grown too heavy and bulky. I think that's why more riders would buy the GS that has sport touring qualities plus it's lighter.
Zack is right about the letter nomenclature. You are caught up on motor configuration. GS is ADV, S is powerful sporty, R boxer touring, F middle weight street.
Over the years I've had quite a few bikes, but the sports tourers (Vfr, Futura, k1200r sport and h2sx) have stood out for me as being the most enjoyable on the road. I am 6'4, so normal sportsbikes tend to be too cramped for me.
The first Sport-Touring was the 1981 and 1982 Honda CBX.... It had hard saddle bags, as fairing and it was sporty compared to a KZ1300B2 model.
Before i start to watch the video my opinion is as follows:
I think real Sport Touring machines will have a comeback with bikes that offer a nice amount of comfort even at highway speeds (especially due to partial fairings as compared to their "offroad" counterparts), luggage and still capable of a fairly sporty ride through the twisties. And since there are still bikes like the Kawasaki Z1000SX and the all new Suzuki GSXS1000GT my hopes are up for something like a new Yamaha Fazer 1000 with differently geared R1 engine, that bike would be a killer
Yamaha FJR is a board and tuned R1 engine
There’s SPORT touring, sport TOURING, and then there’s actual Sport Touring. And starting with any BMW that came fitted with a fairing and bags such as the 1968 R69S I rode as a teen. So some sort of fairing, bags, and a shaft drive and a somewhat upright riding position. ST 1100 such a beautiful but extremely heavy ST’r. And the bike(s) I currently ride, which my mechanic refers to as cult bikes, are my C10 Concours and my C14 Concours. I wish I never would’ve sold my 96 R1190RT but……..
I love, love, love my 2017 (last year made) Triumph Trophy SE Sport Touring motorcycle!!!
100% agree with you! I bought a 2013 shortly after they came out, put 55K miles on it, and couldn't wait for the next-gen Trophy. When I heard they were discontinuing the bike instead, I started looking for a newer one, and eventually ended up with a 2017 factory demo (regional manager's bike) with 1600 miles, for about half price. Best kept secret in touring bikes!
So I have a quad lock with the anti vibration pad and my s21 ultra 5g main camera no long focuses properly.
The Suzuki Katana. Awesome Sport Touring Motorcycle... The Kat is underrated and underestimated Sport Touring Motorcycle. I Own two of them, 2001 Suzuki GSX-F 600 Katana. Love it. It was a Great all round Motorcycle.
Probably not the hottest take, but for me something like a Concourse/Goldwing/BMW RT/FJR1300 isn't a Sports Tourer, it's just a Tourer. It's not always the deciding factor, but when something is well over 250kg and has a shaft drive it's not really sporty, the bias is firmly in touring. To me a Sports Tourer compromises both the Sport and Touring aspects, so a VFR800/Blackbird/ZZR1200/GSF1250X/Sprint is the kind of bike I'd think of - pretty fast, pretty comfortable, can take on a passenger/luggage just fine but not as sporty as a sports bike or not as comfortable as a tourer, but more manageable than either on a daily basis. This is the segment that I think has been eroded by the ADV crowd, especially since the 650 class adventure bikes can still get you to illegal speeds very easily but are lighter, more comfortable and more versatile again than a classic sports tourer.
so freaking agree with Lance in the comparation with cars market
After a couple of years on a CBR500R and CBR650R and due to riding 2up for touring I've been looking at the ST offerings for months.
I don't intend to go off road, I - subjectively - hate the size and feel of ADV's. GS, XR, Tigers, Tracers, Versys...,z
After months of searching 1000SX is pillion unfriendly, FJR1300 is too big and heavy... R1250RS seems to be the winner.
I'll wait to try our the new Suzu 1000GT but it looks more leaned to sport than tour.
For me the 1250RS comes out as the best, jack of all trades for everything I need. And 650R to be a little bit crazy solo on the twisties :)
Hey guys I'm 75 and recently sold my VFR800. At my age that is no sport touring bike. Lol! Love my Versus 650!
I've trashed 2 iphone 11 cameras on my 2015 R1200GS. Using a quadlock vibration dampener mounted to the factory gps bar. I've gone back to my pocket for now.
Yea! Lance is here! Wow less than minute in and Spurge has already named dropped KTM, why am I surprised? Had something similar for my first bike it was a 1972 CB450 that the orig owner tried to chopper up a bit. Any bike can be a "sport tourer" if just throw some bags on it. Just like any bike can be a dual sport if have enough testicular fortitude. These days if I wanted a Honda sport tourer I would go with the CTX1300. Not much in the luggage space department but other than that. I think I realized why I like Lance so much. Not only is he a font of knowledge and has some of the best stories from the road but he also reminds me of the late and great Neil Peart. Subaru Forrester, Cross Trek, and Outback are station wagons period end of story. Lance please come back soon. Penultimate, look at the big brain on Zack!
Spurg, you wrote an article once, setting up a z900 for touring. How did that trip go, and what would you say about the z900 in a sport touring capacity?
I thought it worked out great! It's very similar to what I ultimately went with regarding my pick of the MT-10. I like the MT-10's engine and suspension and additional features a little bit better over all, but I would set it up EXACTLY as I did that Z900. That was a fun article!!
@@SpurgeonDunbar Thank you! That article, along with your z900 review (2017), actually helped me when buying my z900 earlier this year. I'm looking forward to Revzilla's first ride review of the Tiger 660 whenever ya'll can get your hands on it. Long live HSLS!
Underrated point: a lot of mild ADV motorcycles amount to sport-tourers with the social license to ride on dirt roads. Consider a V-Strom 1050, which is an SV1000 with a 19” wheel and permission to get dirty. This acknowledges a reality: sport touring riders are more likely to go on a dirt road than a track day.
In that context, the typical mild ADV is a great mile-eater: suspension travel is nice, the default riding position is roomy, and there’s usually luggage and wind protection options. “Wrong” wheel size or not, the typical ADV is perfectly happy on a twisty road, and probably happier than the average sport-tourer in everyday commuting.
I say this as the very happy owner of a 1999 VFR800. The worst thing about riding it on a dry dirt road is that you’ll get rock chips in the lower fairing.
Surprised no one mentioned the ZX14R and Busa. Maybe a bit of a stretch (no pun intended), but with simple mods they are a lot more comfortable than a Ducati Supersport, and better wind protection than taller adv based tourers. Used ZXs can be had for very cheap, keep up with any adv tourer except maybe the S1000XR (cornering that is).
I had my camera go bad on an 8 plus and two 11 pros so far… hoping the vibration dampener keeps this one alive a little longer on my f800gt
The traditional style of sport-touring bikes are some of my favorite to ride.
I am curious why Lance chose a VFR800 over a Triumph Sprint ST or GT 1050, especially after all the years and miles on a Speed Triple.
The best touring bike is the one you have!
BUT... as for the dearth of focused ST options - IMO the death of the Sport Tourer was when they got too obese to appeal to the performance crowd... then lightweight "ADV Sport" bikes popped up like the Multi that dropped 100+ lbs of fat and upped the power. So now those of us looking for performance sport touring buy "ADV" bikes like the Multi... and S1000XR (which used to be a bit too vibey to really be strong for touring... but people did it anyway)... or even more extreme we'd buy Tuono's or S1000R's and mount bags.
But the "ADV Sport" options are getting thin... the new v4 multistrada has crossed my (admittedly fairly arbitrary) obesity threshold... I think the opportunity now exists again for a true Sport Tourer that sticks with the classic lightweight formula companies like Ducati used in the past. Many would I think be interested in new Duc ST. In our dreams it'd have the Desmo v4 in it, but even the non-desmo powerplant would result in a fantastic bike. The recipe is simple (tho maybe not so easy to execute) - Sub-500lbs wet with luggage mounted, 170+hp, more comfortable seating position than the SS, 200 mile range, clean luggage mounting points, ohlins suspenders in the S version, SSSA and other classic Ducati design queues.
Went through 4 iPhone 11s due to the mount issue (covered by insurance). The problem happens for any phone that has camera image stabilization, Samsung, Apple, etc.
I just keep my phone in my pocket.
That is why I use a phone for phone stuff and a Garmin for nav stuff and a Sony CyberShot for photo stuff.
The sport/adv/"crossover" thing happened back in the early '90s. I "sport toured" on a FZR1000 in the late '80s, wanted more comfort but didn't want the Adventure Touring XTZ750 - Yamaha solved the problem with the TDM850 in '92........... and Yamaha please make a MT10 Tracer........
I know this is an old pod cast but the Yamaha xs750 triple had the exact same performance as my 1975 Honda CB750 sport. My friend and I did endless roll on races and the bike were dead even. They also handled the same which was poorly.
I have seen a lot of Bandits being turned into Sport Touring. My buddy has had 4 of them and just drives them until the wheels fall off.
More people should road trip small bikes! I did the Mongol Rally on a DR125 - went across Europe and Asia! Ride what you got! :)
Sport Touring bikes - the new 2020 Guzzi V100 Mandello is an example of such. Didn’t Aprilla come out with one this year with side bags (asymmetrical, oddly), a higher wind screen and more upright bars?
I could listen to Lance's wisdom all day long...
My only bike is a 1993 model ZX7R (ZXR 750) and if I'm going to do sporttouring, it's going to be on that bike
If joy was distilled into one single sound... It would be Spurg's half laugh, half wounded animal hiccup, whenever Zack cracks a joke. And I'm here for it.
That early bit about the KTM having to remove the engine to replace the oil drain plug gasket is enough to swear me off the brand.
Sorry, I think I might have confused you. I stripped the oil drain plug out of the pan. To repair it with an insert, you have to pull the engine to get at it. This is something that is true of the modern, single cylinder, 4-stroke dirt bikes in their line. And is only an issue if you gorilla paw the hell out of the drain plug. Guilty as charged.
GPZ900R! ...The FIRST bike to be marketed as a Sports Touring machine! Up to then, ALL faired bikes had been marketed as either a sports machine, OR a Tourer. There was also the "Muscle Bike" category, that sprouted fairings, but only AFTER the GPZ had become a journalist/rider favourite and won arms full of accolades worldwide, and laid the foundation for the new market segment!
Wait a minute. Are two motorcycle enthusiasts questioning the wisdom of the illustrious Mayor of NYC? JK De Blasio has proven time and again to be the worst mayor in history. Unless you live in Chicago! Expecting that he will do the right thing or anything at all is an exercise in futility.