As a licensed master electrician I can say that grounding wires are not suppose to carry current so 3 in a screw is just fine. There won't be an over heating issue because they are not current carrying conductors. This is just being to picky. It's the same as a number 4 stranded ground wire there is alot of strands in the cable so then this should also apply to those type of cables aswell.
I'm an electrician as well. I agree this shouldnt be an issue but has the potential to be. That being said, the bond does need to be ensured a good mechanical/electrical connection. The bonding conductor is potentially a current carrying conductor in the case of a short fault, improper use or a short after the load . In the case of a short fault, a bad bond connection would not serve its intent and all bonded parts of that circuit could become hot. Improper use - someone could potentially use a hot conductor, for instance a box containing a switch leg, tap off it for power for an outlet box using the bond as a neutral. I'm pretty sure I ran into something similar like that before. Crazy I know! Lastly a bond conductor shorted in the circuit after the load. A bond path could also carry current in this case. In all these cases the circuits would work fine without opening the overcurrent protection but improperly with hazards present. Btw, not trying to be anal, but some comments just say its wrong with no explanation as to why. Just thought I would share tradesman to tradesman. All the best!
David Hansen actually it is potentially a big deal! Too many wires in one opening in the buss bar, is a potential overheat location, as well as a ground system failure. One may lead to fire, the other may lead to serious health issues including death. Furthermore on that bar, there was no reason whatsoever to even double up, there were plenty of open spots!
Coy Patton I don’t quite understand this either since they are all on the same bus bar anyway. I sort of get what is being said about an overload spot.
@@driveronehundrednine3225 your need for profanity is unacceptable. You have been reported! It points out you immaturity! Basically go read the NEC to find what I am talking about!
in a steve urkle voice : uh yeah dispatch, -this is SparkArrestor1 Charlie. we have an apparent 11.2b violation, uhh im seeking assistance, may need backup.uhh. alert osha at 1400 hrs, tell them to hurry we have a sticky situation here: 1099!! 1099!!! unlicensed tradesman on the run!! i repeat hes on the run!! heading west and south of main!!
I'm an electrician as well. I agree this shouldnt be an issue but has the potential to be. That being said, the bond does need to be ensured a good mechanical/electrical connection. The bonding conductor is potentially a current carrying conductor in the case of a short fault, improper use or a short after the load . In the case of a short fault, a bad bond connection would not serve its intent and all bonded parts of that circuit could become hot. Improper use - someone could potentially use a hot conductor, for instance a box containing a switch leg, tap off it for power for an outlet box using the bond as a neutral. I'm pretty sure I ran into something similar like that before. Crazy I know! Lastly a bond conductor shorted in the circuit after the load. A bond path could also carry current in this case. In all these cases the circuits would work fine without opening the overcurrent protection but improperly with hazards present. Btw, not trying to be anal, but some comments just say its wrong with no explanation as to why. Just thought I would share tradesman to tradesman. All the best!
1. They are not orifices. 2. You do not need to call a tradesman as long as you know what you are doing. 3. This is only one type of problem with ground bars. This video is woefully inadequate. 4. I sure hope you killed the power before sticking your fingers in that box. Next time use a pointer. 5. While I'm sure that box is functional, its a mess.
Red seal journeyman here, so long long as this panel is the first point of service entrance and the neutral buses are bonded to the chassis here with bonding strap in place between neutral and chassis it should be fine. Although I don't do it because it is lazy and isn't visually appealing. Never ever do this in a sub panel, that could actually be a dangerous situation as it would create a ground loop.
bazz black in actuality, do it anywhere is bad practice! Buss bars are cheap and easily installed if you need more spaces(which clearly was not the case here)! Bad habits lead to bad performance!
Wiring a ground bar like that is ridiculous. I had no idea people did this. Does it save time because you only have to adjust 1 screw for 2-3 wires? Just put under each screw, wtf.
There's wrong and there's anal, this one is still going to work the same! Lazy yes, life shattering, no! Next, your going to say the screws aren't torqued correctly! Oh, that's right you were talking about an orifice, that's where this video belongs!
LeDuckDuckGoose tripling grounds is not to code! So if you do it, do not be surprised to fail your inspection. Even worse is you set up a failure. In this case with no need as there were more than enough open spaces to single each. Besides buss bars are cheap!
It may work fine because grounding itself is a protective measure but it's lazy and especially unnecessary when they're are open slots on the ground bus :/
SELF-RELIANCE and a STRONG COMMUNITY until they don’t! And the result could be severe health issues. Now defend this example with open spaces so close!
We always connected the grounds and neutrals too the same bus bar! Bad idea! The fix is simple ad another bus bar then transfer the grounds to it then run a ground cable back to the main box. Use green wire or tape to mark it as a virgin wire that only carries current if an appliance becomes charged due to a faulty wire.
johngmc65 I agree, even if it is the main panel and neutral and ground bars are bonded, it looks more professional, more organized and neat if they are separate. Bars are cheap if you need more spaces and simple to install.
Coy Patton help me understand something I never quite got. What difference does it make with ground and neutrals being on bus bars that are connected? Looks like separated bus bars and separate ground stakes would be safer.
@@rickeykeeton71 At the first point of disconnect and nowhere else, the ground and neutral are bonded together. This is because the neutral needs to be at the same potential as ground, so there is no voltage between neutral and ground. Since the neutral is a current carrying conductor, we cannot bond grounds and neutrals together at any other point in the system, or else we would have current on our grounds, metal junction boxes, and all metal equipment. This is very dangerous and must be avoided.
The point of code and professional knowledge is not offset by someone who states, "it works just fine." The point is that a group of high level industry professionals have met and debated a procedure, including engineers and equipment manufacturers, and determined what is the optimal approach for the use of conductors and devices, and then created code standards as a result. BTW...most tradesmen are not union members. Have a pro make ALL modifications in a panelboard cabinet. Reason: untrained people die every week trying to do this themselves. The heart goes into fibrillation, and no amount of CPR can keep you alive if your heart enters that condition due to a shock. Don't be a moron. Call a pro. For my Italian friends: don't be a Stunod.
@@christopherestevez6375 A grounding wire can easily be carrying unintentional currents which can be deadly. All you have to do is open that circuit with your bare hands and you become the conductor.
Though electrically sound, with all the other places to place the grounding conductors, I wonder why the electrician put three conductors in one spot when there are plenty of other places to put the others? Definitely not a very tidy panel.
oh boy another 'inspector" who sat through some bullshit course thought by a retired electrician, telling licenses electricians there work is wrong. NEC states you can put more than one ground in bar and if its the main panel both colds and grounds can be together on the same bus. more than one ground, single cold per terminal.
Terre Haute and this commenter proves his lack of knowledge. I wonder if he realizes with that label now documented by the video, who will be held responsible legally for his actions?
obviously it does matter. the bus bar in the panel is rated for only two conductors under each screw so that's the most that's allowed. There's a reason it's limited.
As a licensed master electrician I can say that grounding wires are not suppose to carry current so 3 in a screw is just fine. There won't be an over heating issue because they are not current carrying conductors. This is just being to picky. It's the same as a number 4 stranded ground wire there is alot of strands in the cable so then this should also apply to those type of cables aswell.
I'm an electrician as well. I agree this shouldnt be an issue but has the potential to be. That being said, the bond does need to be ensured a good mechanical/electrical connection. The bonding conductor is potentially a current carrying conductor in the case of a short fault, improper use or a short after the load . In the case of a short fault, a bad bond connection would not serve its intent and all bonded parts of that circuit could become hot. Improper use - someone could potentially use a hot conductor, for instance a box containing a switch leg, tap off it for power for an outlet box using the bond as a neutral. I'm pretty sure I ran into something similar like that before. Crazy I know!
Lastly a bond conductor shorted in the circuit after the load. A bond path could also carry current in this case. In all these cases the circuits would work fine without opening the overcurrent protection but improperly with hazards present. Btw, not trying to be anal, but some comments just say its wrong with no explanation as to why. Just thought I would share tradesman to tradesman. All the best!
Unreal.. This is no bid deal at all! You should worry more about changing that battery on your smoke detector!
David Hansen actually it is potentially a big deal! Too many wires in one opening in the buss bar, is a potential overheat location, as well as a ground system failure.
One may lead to fire, the other may lead to serious health issues including death.
Furthermore on that bar, there was no reason whatsoever to even double up, there were plenty of open spots!
Coy Patton I don’t quite understand this either since they are all on the same bus bar anyway. I sort of get what is being said about an overload spot.
@@coypatton3160 What the fuck are you talking about
@@driveronehundrednine3225 your need for profanity is unacceptable. You have been reported! It points out you immaturity! Basically go read the NEC to find what I am talking about!
REPLACE THAT FUCKING BATTERY IN THE DETECTOR
in a steve urkle voice : uh yeah dispatch, -this is SparkArrestor1 Charlie. we have an apparent 11.2b violation, uhh im seeking assistance, may need backup.uhh. alert osha at 1400 hrs, tell them to hurry we have a sticky situation here: 1099!! 1099!!! unlicensed tradesman on the run!! i repeat hes on the run!! heading west and south of main!!
I like this one... This is how they act WE ARE GOING TO DIE!!!!! GET COVER!!!! RELOAD!!! MEDIC!!!! LOL
I'm an electrician as well. I agree this shouldnt be an issue but has the potential to be. That being said, the bond does need to be ensured a good mechanical/electrical connection. The bonding conductor is potentially a current carrying conductor in the case of a short fault, improper use or a short after the load . In the case of a short fault, a bad bond connection would not serve its intent and all bonded parts of that circuit could become hot. Improper use - someone could potentially use a hot conductor, for instance a box containing a switch leg, tap off it for power for an outlet box using the bond as a neutral. I'm pretty sure I ran into something similar like that before. Crazy I know!
Lastly a bond conductor shorted in the circuit after the load. A bond path could also carry current in this case. In all these cases the circuits would work fine without opening the overcurrent protection but improperly with hazards present. Btw, not trying to be anal, but some comments just say its wrong with no explanation as to why. Just thought I would share tradesman to tradesman. All the best!
I just installed a PK23GTA ground bus bar and the manufacturer states it can handle 3 conductors as long as they are the same size. #12 and #14
1. They are not orifices.
2. You do not need to call a tradesman as long as you know what you are doing.
3. This is only one type of problem with ground bars. This video is woefully inadequate.
4. I sure hope you killed the power before sticking your fingers in that box. Next time use a pointer.
5. While I'm sure that box is functional, its a mess.
since he's doing a home inspection for either a buyer or a seller, there may be a stipulation that the work is done by a licensed tradesman.
Red seal journeyman here, so long long as this panel is the first point of service entrance and the neutral buses are bonded to the chassis here with bonding strap in place between neutral and chassis it should be fine. Although I don't do it because it is lazy and isn't visually appealing. Never ever do this in a sub panel, that could actually be a dangerous situation as it would create a ground loop.
bazz black in actuality, do it anywhere is bad practice! Buss bars are cheap and easily installed if you need more spaces(which clearly was not the case here)!
Bad habits lead to bad performance!
No biggie. Don't have a cow, man.
Kind of true a crappy ground is better than no ground but since the neutral or white wire carries a load it's best to have it on an isolated bus bar.
My grandma would say "If you aren't going to do it right, don't do it at all."
Wiring a ground bar like that is ridiculous. I had no idea people did this. Does it save time because you only have to adjust 1 screw for 2-3 wires? Just put under each screw, wtf.
There's wrong and there's anal, this one is still going to work the same! Lazy yes, life shattering, no! Next, your going to say the screws aren't torqued correctly! Oh, that's right you were talking about an orifice, that's where this video belongs!
Always double grounds or even triple if you have too. BUT NEVER DOUBLE NEUTRALS, ever...
LeDuckDuckGoose tripling grounds is not to code! So if you do it, do not be surprised to fail your inspection. Even worse is you set up a failure. In this case with no need as there were more than enough open spaces to single each. Besides buss bars are cheap!
Just follow the specs of the panel, and buy another neutral or ground bar if needed.
This must be a union video, ( call a tradesman ) to move a ground? I have seen 5 wires in a bus bar in the same spot and it works just fine.
Call a trademan, my ass!
It may work fine because grounding itself is a protective measure but it's lazy and especially unnecessary when they're are open slots on the ground bus :/
So then is it wrong to have 3 ground wires in one wire nut?
@@hawkdaddy64 Did you actually read rating of your product... Wire nuts have ratings also.. SMH
@@hawkdaddy64 No. This has nothing to do with wire nuts. It is the rating for the grounding terminals for that panel in the video.
That looks like pure laziness right there. There is plenty of room to have all those wires on their own screw, or very few of them doubled up.
Good catch
lol "proper tradesman"
Improper, but I bet it works just fine.
SELF-RELIANCE and a STRONG COMMUNITY until they don’t! And the result could be severe health issues.
Now defend this example with open spaces so close!
We always connected the grounds and neutrals too the same bus bar! Bad idea! The fix is simple ad another bus bar then transfer the grounds to it then run a ground cable back to the main box. Use green wire or tape to mark it as a virgin wire that only carries current if an appliance becomes charged due to a faulty wire.
johngmc65 I agree, even if it is the main panel and neutral and ground bars are bonded, it looks more professional, more organized and neat if they are separate. Bars are cheap if you need more spaces and simple to install.
Coy Patton help me understand something I never quite got. What difference does it make with ground and neutrals being on bus bars that are connected? Looks like separated bus bars and separate ground stakes would be safer.
@@rickeykeeton71 At the first point of disconnect and nowhere else, the ground and neutral are bonded together. This is because the neutral needs to be at the same potential as ground, so there is no voltage between neutral and ground. Since the neutral is a current carrying conductor, we cannot bond grounds and neutrals together at any other point in the system, or else we would have current on our grounds, metal junction boxes, and all metal equipment. This is very dangerous and must be avoided.
the problem is the number of conductors on each screw, not that the grounds and neutrals are bonded
This is not a video referring to a main or sub panel it's talking about a grounding bus bar and how many can go in each screw
wow, i have never seen such a mess in a electrical panel before
lol this is pretty good to most ive seen
The point of code and professional knowledge is not offset by someone who states, "it works just fine." The point is that a group of high level industry professionals have met and debated a procedure, including engineers and equipment manufacturers, and determined what is the optimal approach for the use of conductors and devices, and then created code standards as a result. BTW...most tradesmen are not union members. Have a pro make ALL modifications in a panelboard cabinet. Reason: untrained people die every week trying to do this themselves. The heart goes into fibrillation, and no amount of CPR can keep you alive if your heart enters that condition due to a shock. Don't be a moron. Call a pro. For my Italian friends: don't be a Stunod.
We're talking about a grounding wire not 480 volts
@@christopherestevez6375 A grounding wire can easily be carrying unintentional currents which can be deadly. All you have to do is open that circuit with your bare hands and you become the conductor.
Good tip .
Though electrically sound, with all the other places to place the grounding conductors, I wonder why the electrician put three conductors in one spot when there are plenty of other places to put the others? Definitely not a very tidy panel.
he said orifice
cool beans
No safety concern at all.
This video is a joke.
Stupid care on job great video
oh boy another 'inspector" who sat through some bullshit course thought by a retired electrician, telling licenses electricians there work is wrong. NEC states you can put more than one ground in bar and if its the main panel both colds and grounds can be together on the same bus. more than one ground, single cold per terminal.
But the panel states only 2 per terminal, not 3. It is a code violation to not follow the manufacturer's instructions.
It doesn't matter if you put 10 wires in the same lug, as long as they fit in there. You don't seem to know what's proper and what's improper.
You have to be knowledgeable to know stuff.
Terre Haute and this commenter proves his lack of knowledge. I wonder if he realizes with that label now documented by the video, who will be held responsible legally for his actions?
obviously it does matter. the bus bar in the panel is rated for only two conductors under each screw so that's the most that's allowed. There's a reason it's limited.
Yep if you can’t do become a inspector
Even if the main was off you really shouldn't stick your fingers into a pannel like that, bad habit.
Lord Cam ok, tell me how do you add a circuit, replace a faulty breaker?
@@coypatton3160 Perform a magic trick. Hocus pocus, add circuit. Lol