Not a fan of hearing stuff like " yeah it costs more but it delivers more". This is literally how we got to these insane prices, we are just normalizing stagnation/regression in terms of value at this point.
I'm not defending Nvidia, but what Rich is saying is true, the manufacturing cost has gone up, just like literally everything else, food in Canada cost twice as much as it did a year ago. Inflation is hitting everyone hard.
@@simons5484 Nvidia is using supply chain constraints as an excuse to gouge prices. Is the situation bad? Yes. Does it excuse this kind of inflation? Absolutely not. Rich and all the other RUclipsrs who spent so much time saying it cost more sure but it's better, is exactly how we got here. I also wish that RUclipsrs would stop with this MSRP bull. You cannot buy any of these cards for their MSRP even still to this day. That price of $799 is only on paper. Digital Foundry and all other RUclipsrs need to stop making excuses for these assholes. They use you as cover. This is a shit product for way too much money. Consumers would be better off buying a used 3090. It's not gimped at 4K like this card is, it doesn't have a ludicrously low bus width, and Nvidia could literally backport DLSS3 to the previous generation. DLSS3 is also not a good feature because it imposes huge latency penalties, which take the current generation LCD displays and make them as unresponsive as early LCD displays. Stop making excuses for these people. Don't buy the card
@@simons5484 Yes prices have gone up a bit, but they are just abusing this fact to raise the price by 2x which is just stupid. Nvidia knows they have been selling cards at 1000+ for the last couple years so now they are just testing the waters. People need to not buy these cards. And sure you could argue that the MSRP of 800 is maybe decent in todays market, but the problem is that that just isnt what the cards cost, they are more like 1000+, atleast here in europe. GPU market is just depressing at this point tbh..
Way I see it, we're staring at a situation like the 20 series, where they ended up making a whole separate 16 series, with all the RT cores cut out, just to serve the budget market. I cannot see how this generation is going to offer compelling budget cards without offering either some kind of depressingly low end 4040 or, I dunno... 3650/3660 cards just to cater to the rx6600 price point buyers.
If nVidia and AMD are pricing their cards according to their performance to previous generation hardware, where would this stop, as technology will always get faster. Does this mean they will always price their cards higher each time, leading to actual astronomic prices? It's not a realistic pricing practice, surely.
As long as the cheaper cards are still available, there's 100% nothing wrong with that. Your comment reads as if gpu prices never come down over time, which is obviously at odds with reality. Older cards get cheaper.
Yeah, it makes no sense. You can´t have price directly linked to performance. It would only work this way f we had reached stagnation in technology, which we obviously haven´t. By this logic, in 10 years GPUs will cost about 30x more, or about 25000 USD.
@@Edino_Chattino "The idea that a chip is going to go down in cost over time is a story of the past." - Nvidia CEO Jensen. Yeah we've reached tech stagnation, at least with Jensen in charge.
Finished watching and , yikes, that wrap up is disturbingly off. The 4070 MSRP was £450 the 3080 MSRP was £650 the 4070ti will be £900+. IN TWO YEARS. you have to be either insane or biased to believe that is a good deal. Lets give it a 25% uplift in two years which is WAY over the actual figure. that would make the 4070 £565. Lets be generous and round it up to £599. Remember, this is not a 4070ti, that's just the name NV have attached to it. It's a 4070 at best in terms of increase gen on gen so it should be compared to that card of the last gen. So a £300 price gouge and I'm being incredibly generous here. I am so disappointed in Richards summing up here, it genuinely feels like a cop-out. NV & AMD are taking the piss this gen, its as simple as that and I expect better from DF than a glib remark about pricing. This is a £550 card and i hope consumers hammer this point home by leaving them on the shelf with the XTX XT & 4080. We are witnessing what happens when a duopoly gets together to fix the pricing of their products. I can think of no other explanation as to why both companies have priced their cards so high. NV keep market share and AMD get a much higher profit margin. For Shame Richard we expect better from this channel.
I don't expect better from this channel when it comes to Nvidia. Digital Foundry has always had a strong bias towards that company. Alex went full crazy fanboy mode attacking Hardware Unboxed on Twitter for daring to suggest that DLSS 3 isn't the greatest invention in gaming history. DF making excuses for Nvidia and basically acting as an unofficial PR arm for it is a pattern dating back over a decade. I'm not suggesting they fake benchmarks or anything of course, which is why those are the only part of DF's content I value any more.
@@CaptainKenway Wow he really attacked HUB for suggesting a half baked, beta tech generating fake frames was dumb and bad when everybody else was saying the same thing too. Dlss 3 is a marketing tool for nvidia to make claims like "4070ti is 3x faster than 3090ti" to mislead customers. No one with a working set of eyes actually uses that trash in games.
Richard. I am disappointed in the dismissive tone your using here about the cost. The 4070ti as a single GPU costs more than PS5 as an entire system and your saying it's a good deal? It damn well better have better performance than a PS5 or series x. And even then it's not worth it! "Just buy a used product if you don't like the price". So people should just accept that buying used entirely replaces the pressure on AMD and Nvidia to make price effective cards?
LOL. Yeah. Lots of shilling going on. Now 70 series cards cost as mush as previous flagship. Who will buy the 4060 at these rate? The market will correct. Economy will have to crash to correct the insanity
I'm glad that more people are finally opening their eyes and seeing DF for what they are - big Nvidia shills (or any company that allows them to do sneak previews and sends shiny free products). But let's stick to Nvidia for now. It started with RTX20 series reviews which were universally mostly negative, except for DF, who was praising Nvidia in every video (and they did release a TON of RTX20 videos). Now fast forward to RTX40 series and we see all the same thing. DF members enjoying their shiny new 4090 cards from Nvidia and don't shy talking about this "lovely tech and amazing RT rays and global illuminations. It's so real, wow you guys, if you play without RT you are nothing." It was cringe watching one of weekly DF shows where they acted dumbfounded because they "couldn't" figure out why Linus Sebastian wouldn't use RTX40 and use Radeon instead. Wow, really guys? At least Linus, GN, HU, JZ2Cents and pretty much all other techtubers aren't afraid of saying how it is. Anyways, let's all calm down and wait for 5090 sneak peaks and reviews from DF next year, which I'm sure will now have total monopoly on Nvidia product previews.
Yep DF is completely tone-deaf. They're oblivious to the market. They're arrogant shills who only understand the technical aspect of things and are completely oblivious to everything else.
exactly. if things are going to cost more money, i'm not buying them, i'm buying whatever costs what i want to spend instead. it's that simple. i'm really hoping intel doesn't give up.
This guy clearly doesn't review CPU's. It's weird how those haven't gone up 60%+ in the last generation despite being produced in a very similar manner. Apparently higher production costs is a GPU only issue. Oh, and consoles as well, for some weird reason he brought that up, despite consoles not going up by 60%+.
@@martinantelo7086 Nope. HUB acknowledges that the 4070 Ti will go over the MSRP once it's sold. That's why I always watch their reviews first when there are new GPU releases.
@@Batman-bh6vw VAT is only 20% and the Euro is stronger than the Dollar. so it sould be more like 900€ but Nvidia and its partners like to F their customers
32:27 So basically 2 years after the 3080, delivering the same price to performance is a good thing?? So this card has delivered functionally no performance improvement to the 3080 in the same scenarios?? Even Apple doesn't stagnate this hard.
Well, its more power efficient and..... nope thats all i got. $200 more expensive, at least. Price to performance on all the current gen cards is shocking.
Although the 4090 is overpriced and greedy, but not thrash. It's a double performance with a power efficient card, compared to the 3090. Not a fan or owner btw
@@Lollerkid Yeah but the fact that we have to buy a $1600 4090 to get a decent perf/price increase is just insane, which makes this entire generation forgettable.
Hot take. But this review is actually one of the most balanced (non-hot takey) perspectives I've found. It's just simply accurate, without emotional baiting. I think Nvidia simply made a poor decision in naming - the 4080 16 should have been called 4080 Ti, and the 4070 Ti the 4080. That would have been in keeping with the generational performance uplift we're seeing here. When factoring in inflation and the new 4nm chip manufacturing cost, 800 is actually very reasonable for a 4080 (considering the pre-inflation msrp of the 3080 was 700).
Comparing the PS5 at $499 to the 4070 Ti at $799 is discounting the cost of all the other system components. If I could plug a 4070 Ti into the wall and game on it by itself this would make sense but you can’t just use the 4070 Ti stand alone so it’s not a fair comparison.
Very true. In addition, you can't plug a 4070 ti into a cheap CPU/ram/motherboard combo without getting into serious bottlenecks. You need fast storage too, and none of those things are cheap. As the recent LTT review said, game consoles are actually a better value atm if you just want gaming.
Yeah, and literally today at CES, Jim Ryan said that the PS5 shortage is over and the December 2022 was the biggest month for PS5 yet. I don't want to be this guy, but I really feel like 2023 will be a very brutal reality check for Nvidia.
This. I am sick of these console comparisons where they use a GPU as the bench but also use 32 gigs of 6000mhz DDR 5 Ram and in i9 processor... how about you chuck in comparable 16 gig ram and a lpwe CPU and let's see that multiplier over the PS5 be nowhere near 2x. DF do a lot of good work but they are out of touch with real world comparisons and actual real figures. Also everytime they say percentage points they are not what we see in the graphs or the figures so where are you getting your figures?
@Stealthygamer When they state the percentage of how much better or worse a card runs compared to the reference card, they're stating an average percentage, which will of course be different from the instantaneous percentage you see in the video
But isn’t it normal to expect generational improvements on new products? otherwise why would anyone upgrade, and if we live in a mentality where with every generational improvement we increase the prices, 10 years from now entry level cards will start at $2k.
Also... if they can't create significant improvements WHY launch a product? Only Apple users have a upgrade schedule that passes by any internal logic processing between the ears, its not normal even if the Envy company wants it to be. (picking more on NVIDIA because their people have made mor(e)onic statements.)
I'm kind of baffled that anyone could call this card "a good deal". Rich can talk a good deal about "the realities" of the situation, citing economic turmoil, inflation, increased manufacturing costs, energy prices etc justifying the price of this thing. Conveniently forgetting that we, consumers who don't get their free GPU's from vendors, also have to deal with all that shit. So sure, it's more expensive for the manufacturer who's now trying to sell these things to consumers who already had to deal with more expenses, the inflation etc. At the end of the day my (and most people's) wallet doesn't have some kind of generational leap, maybe Rich should research the "realities" of that one.
The 4070TI is a 60% price hike over the RTX 3070 ( the 3rd card released down the Ampere stack by direct comparison). There is no way we are giving Nvidia a free pass hiking the price 60%, I don't care what model name they give the card.
60% over the previous 70 class, but over double if you compare to the previous similarity spec’ed card, which is the 3060. Names dont matter, lets not forget they wanted to sell this as a ‘3080 12GB’ for 900$ msrp
4070 Ti should not be compared with the 3070 pricing. It should be compared to the 3070 Ti MSRP of $599. So the 4070 Ti is ~33% more expensive than the 3070 Ti MSRP.
@@deviouslaw if I invent a new gpu with 1 Cuda Core but it beats the performance of 4090, should I charge 1$ for it? That's dumb logic mate. This card matches the performance of the last gen flagship which has always been the property of 70 series cards.
@@Wobbothe3rd no cope. I have a 3090 FE and it runs great. Got it for free mining on it with replaced pads that I did myself. Made 1900$ actually so it paid itself off + more. Free gpu is fine by me.. not sure how that’s coping? Got it for MSRP also
@@Failzz8 because some idiot mentioned “cope” before he tells me I’m too poor to afford a 4070 ti or some troll response. It’s the Internet man you have to think outside the box on responses
I mean, you can get a 3080ti for a decent price most likely, especially used. Card is still really good, and unless youre dying for DLSS3 I dont think its a bad choice. Card will probably be solid for another 5 years for many people
I only play in 1440p and the card runs pretty well for most games with some exceptions, think i'm going to wait another generation but these prices are just depressing for the common man.
So, we're calling a $799 70 class graphics card "reasonable" now? At what point do these constant price hikes start to become unreasonable? You can't keep dancing around this forever.
I'm confused by this review. Nvidia didn't send reviewers any 799 4070 Ti models, yet Rich is using a non 799 model to compare price to performance at 799? I can't even find any 799 models for sale right now. The conclusion is confusing too, considering Rich was concerned about how prices would be down the stack. The 4070Ti is still price stagnation when it's basically a 3080 to 3090 with extra features. Especially since a 799 model doesn't seem to exist.
He has given in and accepted that the price of the card "cant be any lower"...whether that is true or not we will find out later this year if these plus 4080s remain on shelves
The only way GPU manufacturers are going to put sensible prices on these cards is if people stop buying them. Seems the low sales of 4080s might have forced their hand a little, but it's not enough.
No, but it is somewhat hopeful. 42% drop in sales year on year and this is a new gen launch year. Thats not good at all for either company. Investors lose confidence and the share price starts tumbling again.
Meanwhile 4080s in my local shop started at $1700 ( adjusted US currency), but now it's reduced to $1500, so there's progress. The 4070 ti is priced at $1100, just 100 dollar short of the 7900 XT, which is the only variant available. So I'm hoping the same 4080 treatment for the 4070 ti.
They still got 30-series cards to get rid of. They are more concerned with not taking a loss on those than pushing the new product it seems. 40 (series) is the new 20 (series).
In my country the 4070ti costs 919 euros, and we're talking about msrp cards, probably most of them will be around 1000 euros. This card is extremely overpriced for a 295mm² gpu with 192bit bus...
The arguments of inflation and die shinkage being the cause of price increases is simply not born out in financial dealings and chip size. Nvidia has made the active choice to price these cards independent of production costs. Do not excuse coperate greed on the basis of empty excuses.
Watch how the rtx 5060 will be $700 because it has the performance of a rtx 4070 ti and it'll be 'good value'. It's like saving $100 on a rtx 4070 ti guys!
Why because he dares to suggest that some element of pricing uptick should be accepted because of inflation? he was tough on them on the 4080 but gives them a pass on a £800 that delivers ballpark 30 series flagship performance? i got my 3070 for 469 but i was extremely lucky, a new one still costs £570 (non FE of course) and that delivered 2080 ti levels of performance. 3090 and TI costs way more that 2080ti and this delivers ballpark at £800 - add inflation into the fact that last gens flagships were "no change from £1600" and it snot an unreasonable position to take. it sucks, but it is what it is. DF shouldn't be suggested as schills tho.
@@karlreading3201 OK, now compare it to the 3080. 20% more performance for 20% higher price (if you're lucky), two years later. FPS per dollar has not been this bad since the original 2000 series launch, but the number of Nvidia simps is much higher this time for some reason.
@@karlreading3201 watch any other review on the 4070ti and see what atrocious value it is. Literally anyone else. it's actually insulting that Nvidia even markets this garbage and there's a reason no one is buying this card The stance they're taking even including inflation is quite shilly even if it's not intentional and just reeks of wanting to stay in Nvidia's good wishes almost and if not that, they need to try harder with their script writing. The dislikes aren't from AMD fanboys or tech illiterate sensationalists. They're people who expect better coverage of a quite universally hated product.
I think this review misses the mark a bit. This card would have been good at maybe 500 like a true 3070 successor (even though 3070 was never that price lets be real) but this card is currently 1000 euro in Denmark. this is just insane for a 70 series card, and Nvidia should not be allowed to get away with this. i sincerely hope no one buys these cards, and that Nvidia wakes up to reality.
I don't want to repeat this, but please remember inflation is a thing. Even if the current price is probably higher than necessary, you can't just ignore inflation and supply chain issues to that low prices.
@@math3capanema yes I know and that’s fair, but it’s just a name after all and in the end the performance and value is what speaks for itself, this isn’t it. Maybe 4070 comes in and is great and that would be fantastic but so far it’s not looking good
I think you're being too easy on nvidia for the pricing on this one. Has cost of energy gone up where the card is manufactured? Prices are high in europe, but the cards are not made in europe. Semiconductor pricing may well be up, but cleary nvidia had enough margin to drop the msrp by $100 and still make money. I'm sorry, but I feel like you're just making excuses for nvidia here.
A DF nVidia RTX 4070 Ti review, produced by nVidia, narrate by DF. Bravo. Reviews like this will cause huge doubt over all your reviews and will eventually lead to DF being discredited like many others.
5 days into the video and it's 4k likes and 2.7K dislikes. I think that it's time to go back to the drawing board and decide what to do with this channel.
No, you don't get it, guys. DF staff spend their time being amazed by all those beautiful RT rays and incredible reflections. They don't concern themselves with petty things like costs of GPU. The only concern they have is where to put all these lovely GPUs that Nvidia ships to them. Do they put 4090 on a shelf? Or perhaps a table next to 4080, 3090Ti and 3090. But then how do you arrange them? Fastest to slowest? Newest to oldest? Decisions decisions.
I knew it was going to be positive before even watching it. He tried his best to give 4080 a positive review as well but that's so irredeemably bad even he couldn't do it.
@@Glotttis Which is very easy to do when you don't pay for your gpu, or at worse you business expense it. And it's not like it's affecting their work. No way in hell John Linneman would, just a couple of weeks ago, professionally describe on this channel a game as "running perfectly well"... because he ran it on his 4090. That couldn't happen, not ever. And when pointed out the fact he only tested this card for the game, he absolutely did NOT dismiss the comment out of hand, never ever ever. 😩
From DF I'd really like to see actual calculations in regards to the increased production costs and how much of the price increased it really accounts for. I really can't help it but it seems like a straw man argument, distracting from the fact that nvidia (and AMD) just try to keep the prices on crypto-boom level.
spot on. i always see people crying about prices comparatively worse off compared to last gen. whilst ignoring that the production processes and chip manufacturing prices are higher than last gen. we just can't hit the price point of last gen cards until chipmakers expand production
It accounts for like 5% at BEST. The other 95% is just greed. Specially when you consider how the die sizes of these cards are much smaller than last gen, which completely negates the idea that "they have to pay more for the dies".
4070Ti is soo bad that it makes the 7900XT look good. Imo, both the cards are just abysmally priced at this moment. They should be priced in the $450-500 price bracket.
4070ti has better price:perf and way better performance per watt than the 7900XT. Better features, drivers, etc. I wouldn't buy either, but if I had to , I would buy a 4070TI over the AMD product for sure.
@@alexunkin OMFG stop mentioning drivers. If anything drivers are a reason to buy AMD because it's been proven in the past that AMD cards gain up to 20% performance ove rthe years just from driver updates
@@maaax1173 20% percent is dubious. NVIDIA cards also improve over time. additionally you shouldn't have to buy a product with the hopes that it will improve over time. sure if in 6-12 months it is performing 20% better then buy it. If more and more games get RT performance baked in, the NVIDIA products could just as well age better.
@@alexunkin It‘s not hoping, it‘s pretty much guaranteed with how the last 10 years have been, and yes, it gets close to 20%. RT performance on RDNA3 isn‘t bad, Unreal Engine shows that AMD cards can even outperform Nvidia if the games are not Nvidia sponsored
I'm surprised, Digital Foundry are literally the only people who have said this card is value for money or worth it at all. Jay, Linus and all the other big guns have SLATED This product.
It’s because they don’t want to piss Nvidia off. They have done a handful of paid showcases with them lately and they don’t want to piss that money away. On the one hand, I get it. It’s good business. On the other hand this launch was horrific and DF is sugar coating it.
I don't think the card is that bad. Jay, Linus etc. are over doing it with the hatred and not properly pointing out the pros and cons. The pricing is atrocious for this one, but up against 7900XT, this card actually does seem a better deal at a lower price! Ideally this should be a 700 dollar card, but despite the pricing differential, the card is performing pretty well and is very efficient too.
@@mrsittingmongoose Yeah DF have slowly but surely pissed themselves down a well. If Jay hasn't been blacklisted for some of the stuff he's said, I doubt highly if DF would. Rich needs to stop being a corporate shill and live in the real world. The vast majority of PC gamers don't shop at this price point. In fact, 10 years ago, this was reserved for the highest 1% and yet now it's the mid range. If DF truly want to review a product, make their review for the people who are actually buying said product and explain whether it's good to them, instead of filming a review sucking Nvidia off. This is a disgrace of a card at that price point, and the fact that they make them at around $214 (factually, as somebody who works in the industry) and then sell at this price is a disgrace. Rich, you truly deserve culling for this type of content
Now lets see if DF caves in to the terrible business exploits of Nvidia this time.....guess more excuses with only verbal slaps to the wrist for Nvidia from Richard.
Disgusting pandering to Nvidia shareholders in this video. You guys are supposed to represent the consumers. You produce excellent graphics analysis videos, but its clear you cant be trusted for hardware reviews.
More and more I'm finding myself struggling to stomach Digital Foundry's PC content and the new gen PC hardware in general. Their focus now seems to be high-end, ultra expensive parts with under-cooked new features elevated over all else. It's all a bit... soulless from DF? The 'PHWAR! LOOK AT THEM FRAMES! SO MANY RAYS! HOW DO THEY DO IT? Yes, it costs more, but what doesn't these days, amirte?' or the 'Look how this £2k graphics card can play a 2 decade old game WITH FANCY LIGHTS!!?!!?'. It's a far cry from the genuinely interesting and relevant 'mid range' value battle of the GTX 1060 / RX 580 cards or getting 'console performance' from similarly priced PC parts. I know the PC hardware landscape has changed but you don't have to like it and you don't have to let it go unchallenged. New node or not, this AD104 die is 1/2 the silicon of the GA102 in the RTX 3080 if the costs are higher they built it for a margin-rich crypto world that looks very different to me now. AMD is no better, they've had countless opportunities to be market disrupters but are happy to tuck into the nVidia-hyper-inflation slipstream. I can't get excited by these cards or these videos, any chance you could split them out to PC only channel, so I can better avoid them?
This speaks from my soul. All thats still interesting on this channel anymore are DF tech reviews and even those often boil down to "Trace those rays you dirty scum!"
Yep, DF obsessions to Ray Tracing is a bit worrying when developer have actually find way to emulate how light works without the need of expensive RT (looks at SVOGI for example). Obviously, that non RT solution wont make our brain instantly said its looks odd or not 'real', our brain still can accept it and think its real enough during gameplay. Developer needs to focus more on the development of physics, world simulation, NPC A.I. behaviour and gameplay elements. Look at the latest COD for example, the single player of it probably have better graphics, but compared to F.E.A.R. from 17 years ago, its still have very mediocre enemy A.I., and guess what, Id rather replaying F.E.A.R. over and over than COD
As a computer enthousiast for over 25 years I couldn't care less. Until the pricing is good again across the board for a new generation, I'll wait. I've bought an Xbox and will wait untill the market is sane again. That might never happen but Nvidia will never get my money this way and that feels good.
Feels like the most sensible thing would be playing the newest stuff on Xbox or Playstation and returning to these games years later on PC once the prices drop.
Sorry, you kinda lost the objective point of view on the pricing here. Calling the RX 7900 XT an unreasonable 900$ while you do know that there will be not a single 4070 Ti available for 799$ is .... biased, sorry. And no, people have not been buying 4080's, at least not a lot. And, please don't take this the wrong way but wtf. was that console comparison. Yes of course this card beats the s**t out of Consoles, but go ahead and build a PC compareable to an XBox Series X for 499$. While possible, it is extremely tough to do. And i challange you to beat Series X's RT Performance as well as Rasterised performanced, combined with the same PCIe 4 SSD speeds you need to match the SX or the PS5. I am a PC Gamer to the core, but really, that wasn't your best take on that topic. You at DF excell in Game Performance Analytics, you excell at the comparison between cards, but your conclusions, specially in relation to price have been a bit lackluster. Price per Watt is interesting, and certainly in the modern times relevant, but don't just throw Price per Frame out of the Window. And even if it is a LOT of work, just taking MSRP's for granted is a way too easy way out, specially when you can be dead certain the card in question won't be available for that price to more than maybe a select few people. I have to point towards Hardware Unboxed for their hard work to a) test a metric buttload of games to get a good average about a cards speed and b) looking at prices worldwide for each card they test. I am certainly not suggesting you need to be grumpy and beat up every card that has such a high price, but just sticking with "things get more expensive, deal with it" is just not cutting it and playing into the companies hands here.
Yeah a mid-range card that was outdated after 1 year with a 40mm fan that ran all the time at 4000 rpm and shit-brown or green pcb, what a time to be alive
@@Dr.WhetFarts when was that? my hd6950 lasted 5 years being not only relevant, just straight up GOOD. my rx480 also did the same. and it is still a relevant gpu now almost 10 years after its release.
@@Dr.WhetFarts This 😂 The 1070, as an example, was a mid range card when it was released. Price point? $400 bucks. How fast did it go obsolete? Within 3 years, in other words, it was a hunk of useless garbage like most other mid range cards tend to be. If you want a decent card, go mid-high and you'll be fine for years instead of buying something that will quickly be obsolete.
30:06 I'll just reference this part of the video because I've been saying this ever since the new cards have released. We've reached a point where the process to manufacture the nodes are very very expensive, especially as it gets smaller and more efficient. The demand for electronics in general has increased significantly that we've had massive shortages in all industries such as automotive, medical etc. that has driven the price of silicone to all time highs. When you consider nvidia is putting more of this super expensive silicone in their cards than they ever have it starts to make sense. That's all before you factor in the massive inflation from covid and other factors or the fact that Nvidia obviously wants to make a decent profit margin on the cards, ON TOP of third party vendors also wanting to make their cut, ALONG with retailers who are looking to make a profit on the sale. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, all tech is on the rise.
@@stevetriple8 If you don't understand the economics of GPUs, don't comment on it. You're just regurgitating sht you've heard other people say, because it makes you feel smart. The 3080 has a 65% larger die size than the 4080, and a 110% larger die size than the 4070ti. By your own logic, last gen was MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE TO MAKE, yet it had a MUCH CHEAPER price for the consumer. These are just humongous amounts of Greed. That's why these cards are priced the way they are. Period. >Nvidia obviously wants to make a decent profit margin on the cards Same as every other product on the market, and they haven't increased 70% in price. >ON TOP of third party vendors also wanting to make their cut Same as every other product on the market, and they haven't increased 70% in price. >ALONG with retailers who are looking to make a profit on the sale Same as every other product on the market, and they haven't increased 70% in price. You're really breaking ground with your analysis! You're describing a process that is TRUE FOR EVERY PRODUCT EVER CREATED UNDER A CAPITALIST SOCIETY. All billions of them follow the same logic. But only ONE of them increased its price by 70%. Funny how that works. You're the biggest anti-intellectual of all time. >This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, all tech is on the rise. Yeah, we all know how much more expensive SSDs, RAM and CPUs are getting. Ohwait... they aren't. My bad.
@BINARYGOD exactly the 50xx series will come out, then all of a suddenly the 4070ti will be the best value after the typical price cut that comes with being an older series card.
I personally am not accepting these prices. Nvidia and AMD are going to have a tough time convincing people to upgrade when the upgrade costs significantly more than what people paid for their current GPU. Most people spend a certain amount every few years on upgrades. If you spent $500 on a GPU 3 years ago but a $500 GPU now doesn't give you any extra performance... why upgrade lol
If you have a 3080, theres no need to upgrade. My 1080ti was 650 ~5 year ago. At 850 for a significant uplift and considering inflation (which is huge a.t.m, that 650 is 790 in today's money ) it seems reasonable.
Nvidia made their money the rtx 4000 series launch was successful. Most people don't listen to RUclips reviews if they like it they buy it thats exactly what happened.
the 4000 series is not selling well - or rather, 3000 series are selling out everywhere and many places still ahve 4000 series. We have no idea how well 4000 series have been supplied, of course - maybe they are putting ou fewer units vs 3000 series. Anyway, people are overall not happy any anyone outside of the "I buy it no matter what" group is showing it by getting "last gen" instead.
£700 is my absolute maximum, even allowing for inflation, but in reality I've never spent more than £600. Last year was the first time I dipped into the used market to upgrade my PC and got a RTX 3080 for £600. In fairness, it was in absolutely spanking nick, card and box looked and smelt brand new. Also, I sold my GTX 1080 ti shortly theeafter for £260, so the net spend on the card was actually only £340.00. The issue only comes if you've left it too late to upgrade and your old card is worth jack to sell on the market.
You guys are shilling too hard for Nvidia by trying to gaslight your own audience here. It's like the review was written by nVidia's marketing, trying so hard to not call out how atrocious the actual stagnation of price performance is this gen. "You pay more and get more"?? Yeah in a linear fashion with no gain in price performance are 2 years. It's just shameful how obvious your biases are.
3060 Ti = 45% cores of a 3090, 40% slower, 26% cost ($399 vs $1499) 4070 Ti = 42% cores of a 4090, 40% slower, 50% cost ($799 vs $1599) Yeah, no thank you
I feel like putting the PS5 vs 4070 ti metric was rather disingenuous. You're looking at a vacuum 2x performance while just looking at the GPU, but your system has the most expensive stack of CPU and you have 32gb of ddr5. Your total system based off those two things, plus probably an SSD and the new ddr5 platform is astronomically more expensive than a PS5. Worse still, is that the CPU +motherboard, SSD + memory, or the GPU alone each cost from almost as much to significantly more than a PS5, meaning you'll possibly spend between 4x the price for 2x performance from a console....
You're thinking way too much into it mate. The PS5 is quite popular so he was using it as an example. He didn't tell people to buy a 4070Ti instead. The viewer can choose to do what they want based on their tastes and budget.
Agreed. Or a ps5. Even at current prices, it still offers better value than a gaming pc. It also comes with great exclusive games, same case for switch
@@nitemantube Honestly, i would say a Series S is probably all the average gamer needs these days. And with the money you save over a PS5 you might as well get some games to boot. But don't get me wrong, a PS5 is still a fantastic deal compared to this GPU shitshow of a generation.
@@ammanus356 idk what it costs to make one but they're really painting themselves into a corner. This means the 4070 will be $700 and likely be right in line performance wise with the 3080, so zero price to performance improvement, utterly absurd. Definitely skipping this gen.
@@FlyBird it's all subjective, I personally think this should have been the base 4070 at $550. It's all bs at the end of the day. Nvidia just wants to be apple.
You are pushing just Nvidia's narrative. You just forgot to mention that 4070ti = 3x 3090ti other than that basically you checked all points from Nvidia's 4070ti presentation. TBH I becoming more and more disappointed by DF coverage... Wasn't too sure is this still good old DF or Nvidia's PR channel, but no, it says Digital Foundry here.
Digital Foundry’s out of step with other reviewers this generation with respect to Nvidia cards. I’m amazed by how okay you are with this price/performance gen on gen. If this continues across the board from Nvidia and AMD, console gaming will win and PC gaming will cool off. Disappointing really. A $1500+ AUD 70 Ti is just disgusting to me.
As a console only gamer whos latest system is a base PS4 from it's launch in 2013, id like to think console and PC gaming both have something to offer to the consumer. But it shouldent be just because PC gaming becomes prohibitively more expensive as the numbered cards gradually price people out of the running.
I respect the hell out of Rich and the DF team, and this video is fantastic overall, but bringing up the inflation rate at the end as some sort of justification for nvidia's pricing is silly. This is a 33% price increase over the 3070 TI which came out a year and a half ago. The cumulative inflation over the past two years is less than half that. To get that level of cumulative inflation you'd have to go back to 2011. This is corporate greed pure and simple, and now that the crypto bubble burst, it will be punished by the markets.
True. The shills and fanboys always use that inflation nonsense to justify price gouging. Let the companies expose what these cards actually cost to make if it is all inflation.
@@AdmiralCoxx They're enthusiastic about graphics and new technologies, the truth is that Nvidia is doing a lot introducing new technologies in performance and graphics so maybe it sounds that way because it's reflective of the way the industry currently is?
Not true, the actual inflation is much higher than the "officially reported" value for some reason, just ask any manufacturer of basically anything how much their costs have gone up over the last 2-3 years.
You can't compare the overall inflation rate and apply it to a GPU. GPU inflation is far higher than general consumer inflation, for reasons mentioned. Additionally , future inflation is factored into the product lifecycle, where $799 is going to be worth a whole lot less in real terms over the next two years.
Rich i would love if you could always show both the raw FPS and % diff at the same time, it gets confusing switching all the time plus i feel that most of the time you are just showing the % diff. My take away is that unless you want DLSS3, go with an used 3090/3090 Ti for less than 800 if you can.
Everyone will use dlss3 bro. Its almost free performance. No point in going with 3000 series now. 4070ti is pretty good. Wud have been perfect if it was 700
They do this purposefully to confuse the viewer, making them more likely to listen to their opinions first which are overly positive and not going to ruffle Nvidia’s feathers. Pretty obvious at this point.
This is the very first DF video that i didn't like, and not feel comfortable watching it. There is nothing in my view that justify the outrageous price of the 4000s
Are you joking me? How much did nvidia pay you for speaking this nonsense? The price is clearly due to nvidia's greed, not about the cost. How can a 295 mm^2 die be that expensive even if it is using the 4nm node. Remember the GA102 die on 3080 is 628mm^2
Digital foundry generally ignore historic pricing trends when evaluating product whereas most other normal review sites will factor in several generations in determining the value proposition of a GPU. It is for that reason especially that I think DF are way behind the curve in GPU reviewing.
Rich doesn't need to mine gamer salt to make bank. That's why I'm subbed to this channel. Like, I get it, the cards are expensive. If they're too rich for your blood, don't buy 'em. I've got enough disposable income, so I got a 4090 Suprim Liquid X. If I didn't have the cash on hand, I wouldn't. It should be that simple.
@@Wobbothe3rd Yes, considering how very minor of an upgrade it is. Do you think $1000 for a 1440p card that cant even run RTX without DLSS is a good deal? 4k is out the window with the low vram.
@@BillCipher1337 It's the same thing. They give their cards a designation that is usually far better. This started as a 4080 12GB, smoke and mirror stuff. It's a 4070/4060ti card for £900.
Not really a fan of this review . 4070ti is overpriced and that’s it not point in saying that you don’t mind the price of the 4070ti when us consumers disagree . Nvidia and amd need to wake up .
These overpriced gpus are a great advertisement for console gaming. I wonder how many PC gamers just give up and go buy a ps5 instead, things are just getting too silly
This card may look nice in benchmarks, but I can only see, that I paid 350 Euros for my Geforce 970 back then, now I would have to pay 1000 Euros, absolutely bonkers.
@@icy1007Yes, my bad...but you know what I mean. But this shows even more how shitty the gpu market is these days, with different versions between cards with the same name.
I really like the content of this channel, that's why i just dont get this video. All new gpus have AWFUL price to performance. Why gpus increase so much in cost, but it doesnt happen the same with cpus? Besides, the cost of materials has increased, yes...but the die area is way smaller in the 4070ti and 4080 in comparison with the 3080 (gamers nexus data), so it makes no sense. Anyways: glad to see that this products are left on the shelves.
Why are they comparing the x70 level to the x90 level anyway? They need to justify their prices. They should naturally compare to previous incarnations. But they would not be able to drastically increase prices that way. Shame for the consumer.
whilst an outlier it wasn't a lie, the bad thing about the comparison was that the 4070ti was using DLSS 3 frame generation and the 3090ti was only using DLSS 2 and only seen in one game.
@@Wobbothe3rd In Q3 of last year, desktop GPU shipments hit their lowest point since Q3 of 2005. They had a 42% year-over-year drop compared to the same time frame in 2021. Nvidia still has the lead (at least, as long as you don't count integrated GPUs) but sales have taken a nose dive.
So any reason why you didn't use the RTX 3070TI to compair the RTX 4070 TI or was the 30% plus price increase over manufacturer's suggested retail price a bit harder to explain ! I was under the impression this was a replacement for the rtx 3070ti and not a rtx 3080/90. Guess the are also going to be more stock room fillers to go with the RTX4080 as well. Still come 1st April Nvidia have given people plenty of material to use.
![Intel Arc A770 vs Triple-A Gaming: 1440p, 4K, Ray Tracing, XeSS + Settings Optimisation! [Sponsored]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rR13hzCOYHE/mqdefault.jpg)
Not a fan of hearing stuff like " yeah it costs more but it delivers more". This is literally how we got to these insane prices, we are just normalizing stagnation/regression in terms of value at this point.
I'm not defending Nvidia, but what Rich is saying is true, the manufacturing cost has gone up, just like literally everything else, food in Canada cost twice as much as it did a year ago. Inflation is hitting everyone hard.
I think he’s talking about features too like DLSS3 & AV1 encoding.
@@simons5484 Nvidia is using supply chain constraints as an excuse to gouge prices. Is the situation bad? Yes. Does it excuse this kind of inflation? Absolutely not.
Rich and all the other RUclipsrs who spent so much time saying it cost more sure but it's better, is exactly how we got here.
I also wish that RUclipsrs would stop with this MSRP bull. You cannot buy any of these cards for their MSRP even still to this day. That price of $799 is only on paper. Digital Foundry and all other RUclipsrs need to stop making excuses for these assholes. They use you as cover. This is a shit product for way too much money.
Consumers would be better off buying a used 3090. It's not gimped at 4K like this card is, it doesn't have a ludicrously low bus width, and Nvidia could literally backport DLSS3 to the previous generation.
DLSS3 is also not a good feature because it imposes huge latency penalties, which take the current generation LCD displays and make them as unresponsive as early LCD displays. Stop making excuses for these people. Don't buy the card
@@simons5484 Yes prices have gone up a bit, but they are just abusing this fact to raise the price by 2x which is just stupid. Nvidia knows they have been selling cards at 1000+ for the last couple years so now they are just testing the waters. People need to not buy these cards. And sure you could argue that the MSRP of 800 is maybe decent in todays market, but the problem is that that just isnt what the cards cost, they are more like 1000+, atleast here in europe. GPU market is just depressing at this point tbh..
Agreed. This comment should be pinned at the top.
Can't wait for the 4060 to be "great value" at $600 🙃
I remeber thinking the 1080 was just too expensive at $700 😂
True
Way I see it, we're staring at a situation like the 20 series, where they ended up making a whole separate 16 series, with all the RT cores cut out, just to serve the budget market. I cannot see how this generation is going to offer compelling budget cards without offering either some kind of depressingly low end 4040 or, I dunno... 3650/3660 cards just to cater to the rx6600 price point buyers.
@@BasePuma4007 That was the MSRP for the reference 3080.
And 4050 at 300 dolla...aaaah. That was basically the 3050. Not MSRP, but with the AIB tax added it's not far frl. (or even exceeds) $300.
If nVidia and AMD are pricing their cards according to their performance to previous generation hardware, where would this stop, as technology will always get faster. Does this mean they will always price their cards higher each time, leading to actual astronomic prices? It's not a realistic pricing practice, surely.
As long as the cheaper cards are still available, there's 100% nothing wrong with that. Your comment reads as if gpu prices never come down over time, which is obviously at odds with reality. Older cards get cheaper.
@@Wobbothe3rd Yes but new cards shouldn't double in price every gen.
congratulations you've discovered inflation
Yeah, it makes no sense. You can´t have price directly linked to performance. It would only work this way f we had reached stagnation in technology, which we obviously haven´t. By this logic, in 10 years GPUs will cost about 30x more, or about 25000 USD.
@@Edino_Chattino "The idea that a chip is going to go down in cost over time is a story of the past." - Nvidia CEO Jensen. Yeah we've reached tech stagnation, at least with Jensen in charge.
damn I've never seen so many dislikes in a DF video. Guess we're all tired of Nvidia's bs.
Sorry but even if you count in the inflation 4070 ti is overpriced carbage
Finished watching and , yikes, that wrap up is disturbingly off. The 4070 MSRP was £450 the 3080 MSRP was £650 the 4070ti will be £900+. IN TWO YEARS. you have to be either insane or biased to believe that is a good deal. Lets give it a 25% uplift in two years which is WAY over the actual figure. that would make the 4070 £565. Lets be generous and round it up to £599. Remember, this is not a 4070ti, that's just the name NV have attached to it. It's a 4070 at best in terms of increase gen on gen so it should be compared to that card of the last gen. So a £300 price gouge and I'm being incredibly generous here.
I am so disappointed in Richards summing up here, it genuinely feels like a cop-out. NV & AMD are taking the piss this gen, its as simple as that and I expect better from DF than a glib remark about pricing. This is a £550 card and i hope consumers hammer this point home by leaving them on the shelf with the XTX XT & 4080. We are witnessing what happens when a duopoly gets together to fix the pricing of their products. I can think of no other explanation as to why both companies have priced their cards so high. NV keep market share and AMD get a much higher profit margin. For Shame Richard we expect better from this channel.
I'm honestly left baffled by it.
Rich should read this
"Yikes" is right. Rich is out of touch.
I don't expect better from this channel when it comes to Nvidia. Digital Foundry has always had a strong bias towards that company. Alex went full crazy fanboy mode attacking Hardware Unboxed on Twitter for daring to suggest that DLSS 3 isn't the greatest invention in gaming history. DF making excuses for Nvidia and basically acting as an unofficial PR arm for it is a pattern dating back over a decade. I'm not suggesting they fake benchmarks or anything of course, which is why those are the only part of DF's content I value any more.
@@CaptainKenway Wow he really attacked HUB for suggesting a half baked, beta tech generating fake frames was dumb and bad when everybody else was saying the same thing too. Dlss 3 is a marketing tool for nvidia to make claims like "4070ti is 3x faster than 3090ti" to mislead customers. No one with a working set of eyes actually uses that trash in games.
Richard. I am disappointed in the dismissive tone your using here about the cost. The 4070ti as a single GPU costs more than PS5 as an entire system and your saying it's a good deal? It damn well better have better performance than a PS5 or series x. And even then it's not worth it!
"Just buy a used product if you don't like the price". So people should just accept that buying used entirely replaces the pressure on AMD and Nvidia to make price effective cards?
You’re*
lol "just accept that things are going to cost more money" spoken like a true Nvidia employee
LOL. Yeah. Lots of shilling going on. Now 70 series cards cost as mush as previous flagship. Who will buy the 4060 at these rate? The market will correct. Economy will have to crash to correct the insanity
I'm glad that more people are finally opening their eyes and seeing DF for what they are - big Nvidia shills (or any company that allows them to do sneak previews and sends shiny free products). But let's stick to Nvidia for now. It started with RTX20 series reviews which were universally mostly negative, except for DF, who was praising Nvidia in every video (and they did release a TON of RTX20 videos). Now fast forward to RTX40 series and we see all the same thing. DF members enjoying their shiny new 4090 cards from Nvidia and don't shy talking about this "lovely tech and amazing RT rays and global illuminations. It's so real, wow you guys, if you play without RT you are nothing." It was cringe watching one of weekly DF shows where they acted dumbfounded because they "couldn't" figure out why Linus Sebastian wouldn't use RTX40 and use Radeon instead. Wow, really guys? At least Linus, GN, HU, JZ2Cents and pretty much all other techtubers aren't afraid of saying how it is. Anyways, let's all calm down and wait for 5090 sneak peaks and reviews from DF next year, which I'm sure will now have total monopoly on Nvidia product previews.
Yep DF is completely tone-deaf. They're oblivious to the market. They're arrogant shills who only understand the technical aspect of things and are completely oblivious to everything else.
exactly. if things are going to cost more money, i'm not buying them, i'm buying whatever costs what i want to spend instead. it's that simple. i'm really hoping intel doesn't give up.
This guy clearly doesn't review CPU's. It's weird how those haven't gone up 60%+ in the last generation despite being produced in a very similar manner. Apparently higher production costs is a GPU only issue. Oh, and consoles as well, for some weird reason he brought that up, despite consoles not going up by 60%+.
Paid reviewers. All of your content is usually great but your GPU reviees are ridiculous.
They even dropped the MSRP 100$ and it's still not worth it.
MSRP means nothing nowadays and reviewers keep ignoring this. The card is 1200€ at my local retailers.
@@martinantelo7086 VAT really makes European prices atrocious on these already highly priced products.
@@martinantelo7086 Nope. HUB acknowledges that the 4070 Ti will go over the MSRP once it's sold. That's why I always watch their reviews first when there are new GPU releases.
@@Batman-bh6vw VAT is only 20% and the Euro is stronger than the Dollar. so it sould be more like 900€ but Nvidia and its partners like to F their customers
@@martinantelo7086 MSRP isn't meaningless. If it was meaningless, it wouldn't exist.
Embarrassed by DF shilling this dumpster fire. Watch gamer nexus review.
32:27 So basically 2 years after the 3080, delivering the same price to performance is a good thing?? So this card has delivered functionally no performance improvement to the 3080 in the same scenarios?? Even Apple doesn't stagnate this hard.
Well, its more power efficient and..... nope thats all i got. $200 more expensive, at least. Price to performance on all the current gen cards is shocking.
My overclocked 3080 12gb for 780€ is just 10% slower
And the 4070ti cards start at 990€ here in germany
These europeans tsk. The currency has devalued bro. Dont compare without thinking
@@anuzahyder7185 don’t bro him like you’re the smart one man ;). The euro price is almost always shown after tax, in most Euro countries 21%.
This review is FAR too kind. This entire GPU generation is overpriced and greedy trash.
Although the 4090 is overpriced and greedy, but not thrash. It's a double performance with a power efficient card, compared to the 3090. Not a fan or owner btw
@@Lollerkid Yeah but the fact that we have to buy a $1600 4090 to get a decent perf/price increase is just insane, which makes this entire generation forgettable.
@@neonix01 Do you need 144Hz for 4K? If not there is no reason for buying a 4090 for 1600$.
not at all. Rich insisted on bashing the 4080 for it´s price to performance even though this is the 4070 ti review
Hot take. But this review is actually one of the most balanced (non-hot takey) perspectives I've found. It's just simply accurate, without emotional baiting. I think Nvidia simply made a poor decision in naming - the 4080 16 should have been called 4080 Ti, and the 4070 Ti the 4080. That would have been in keeping with the generational performance uplift we're seeing here. When factoring in inflation and the new 4nm chip manufacturing cost, 800 is actually very reasonable for a 4080 (considering the pre-inflation msrp of the 3080 was 700).
Why dont you comment on the lie nvidia told when they claimed 3X performance over 3090ti.
you held back and didn't criticize this crap product enough.
Comparing the PS5 at $499 to the 4070 Ti at $799 is discounting the cost of all the other system components. If I could plug a 4070 Ti into the wall and game on it by itself this would make sense but you can’t just use the 4070 Ti stand alone so it’s not a fair comparison.
Very true. In addition, you can't plug a 4070 ti into a cheap CPU/ram/motherboard combo without getting into serious bottlenecks. You need fast storage too, and none of those things are cheap. As the recent LTT review said, game consoles are actually a better value atm if you just want gaming.
Yeah, and literally today at CES, Jim Ryan said that the PS5 shortage is over and the December 2022 was the biggest month for PS5 yet. I don't want to be this guy, but I really feel like 2023 will be a very brutal reality check for Nvidia.
This. I am sick of these console comparisons where they use a GPU as the bench but also use 32 gigs of 6000mhz DDR 5 Ram and in i9 processor... how about you chuck in comparable 16 gig ram and a lpwe CPU and let's see that multiplier over the PS5 be nowhere near 2x. DF do a lot of good work but they are out of touch with real world comparisons and actual real figures. Also everytime they say percentage points they are not what we see in the graphs or the figures so where are you getting your figures?
@@gmbai you can easily plug this gpu to ram motherboard lol and even cpu
@Stealthygamer When they state the percentage of how much better or worse a card runs compared to the reference card, they're stating an average percentage, which will of course be different from the instantaneous percentage you see in the video
But isn’t it normal to expect generational improvements on new products? otherwise why would anyone upgrade, and if we live in a mentality where with every generational improvement we increase the prices, 10 years from now entry level cards will start at $2k.
Exactly. It's not a " generational improvement" if it costs almost double compared to previous gen.
Also... if they can't create significant improvements WHY launch a product? Only Apple users have a upgrade schedule that passes by any internal logic processing between the ears, its not normal even if the Envy company wants it to be. (picking more on NVIDIA because their people have made mor(e)onic statements.)
I'm kind of baffled that anyone could call this card "a good deal". Rich can talk a good deal about "the realities" of the situation, citing economic turmoil, inflation, increased manufacturing costs, energy prices etc justifying the price of this thing. Conveniently forgetting that we, consumers who don't get their free GPU's from vendors, also have to deal with all that shit. So sure, it's more expensive for the manufacturer who's now trying to sell these things to consumers who already had to deal with more expenses, the inflation etc.
At the end of the day my (and most people's) wallet doesn't have some kind of generational leap, maybe Rich should research the "realities" of that one.
Digital Foundry says that this is a good price for this card? NVIDIA sellouts.
There has always been "a bit" of a bias towards Nvidia products on this channel but this is just absurd
The 4070TI is a 60% price hike over the RTX 3070 ( the 3rd card released down the Ampere stack by direct comparison). There is no way we are giving Nvidia a free pass hiking the price 60%, I don't care what model name they give the card.
60% over the previous 70 class, but over double if you compare to the previous similarity spec’ed card, which is the 3060. Names dont matter, lets not forget they wanted to sell this as a ‘3080 12GB’ for 900$ msrp
4070 Ti should not be compared with the 3070 pricing. It should be compared to the 3070 Ti MSRP of $599. So the 4070 Ti is ~33% more expensive than the 3070 Ti MSRP.
@@icy1007 Why? Because of the name?
In terms of % of cuda cores vs xx90, the ratio is closer to a 3060Ti
@@deviouslaw CUDA % vs 4090 is irrelevant. Performance is what matters.
@@deviouslaw if I invent a new gpu with 1 Cuda Core but it beats the performance of 4090, should I charge 1$ for it? That's dumb logic mate.
This card matches the performance of the last gen flagship which has always been the property of 70 series cards.
Here’s your dislike Digital foundry you deserve it for rubbing off to Nvidia 👎
Cope.
@@Wobbothe3rd no cope. I have a 3090 FE and it runs great. Got it for free mining on it with replaced pads that I did myself. Made 1900$ actually so it paid itself off + more. Free gpu is fine by me.. not sure how that’s coping? Got it for MSRP also
@@Multimeter1 Good for you, but how does that have anything to do with this card?
@@Failzz8 because some idiot mentioned “cope” before he tells me I’m too poor to afford a 4070 ti or some troll response. It’s the Internet man you have to think outside the box on responses
I'm still on a 2080ti, looking to upgrade, but not at these prices.
I mean, you can get a 3080ti for a decent price most likely, especially used. Card is still really good, and unless youre dying for DLSS3 I dont think its a bad choice. Card will probably be solid for another 5 years for many people
I only play in 1440p and the card runs pretty well for most games with some exceptions, think i'm going to wait another generation but these prices are just depressing for the common man.
@N7 Andy AMD. Or wait for good prices. Don‘t support this price policy from Nvidia, I know AMD isn‘t a lot better but better than NV at least
@@PantsaBear yup, I've been just fine playing in 1440p with a 3080 on the same oled the original post was referring to.
im on a rx480 man, you got YEARS left on that card of yours.
So, we're calling a $799 70 class graphics card "reasonable" now? At what point do these constant price hikes start to become unreasonable? You can't keep dancing around this forever.
I'm confused by this review. Nvidia didn't send reviewers any 799 4070 Ti models, yet Rich is using a non 799 model to compare price to performance at 799? I can't even find any 799 models for sale right now. The conclusion is confusing too, considering Rich was concerned about how prices would be down the stack. The 4070Ti is still price stagnation when it's basically a 3080 to 3090 with extra features. Especially since a 799 model doesn't seem to exist.
It's exactly what it looks like - the most positive they can possibly be for Nvidia without it being comical.
He has given in and accepted that the price of the card "cant be any lower"...whether that is true or not we will find out later this year if these plus 4080s remain on shelves
4070ti is between 3090 and 3090ti and not 3080 and 3090
Exactly, I paid $1068(including taxes) for my gigabyte 4070ti gaming oc 🥲
The only way GPU manufacturers are going to put sensible prices on these cards is if people stop buying them. Seems the low sales of 4080s might have forced their hand a little, but it's not enough.
No, but it is somewhat hopeful. 42% drop in sales year on year and this is a new gen launch year. Thats not good at all for either company. Investors lose confidence and the share price starts tumbling again.
Meanwhile 4080s in my local shop started at $1700 ( adjusted US currency), but now it's reduced to $1500, so there's progress. The 4070 ti is priced at $1100, just 100 dollar short of the 7900 XT, which is the only variant available. So I'm hoping the same 4080 treatment for the 4070 ti.
They still got 30-series cards to get rid of. They are more concerned with not taking a loss on those than pushing the new product it seems.
40 (series) is the new 20 (series).
But idc I wanted 4090 performance here and now…
This pricing makes scalpers down to their knees, which is good for availability
20% faster than 3080 and 14% more expensive, is this supposed to be a win?
BUT ITS 3 TIMES THE SIZE OF THE 3090TI!
@@MrCheckpoint93 thats not a problem
In my country the 4070ti costs 919 euros, and we're talking about msrp cards, probably most of them will be around 1000 euros. This card is extremely overpriced for a 295mm² gpu with 192bit bus...
Well what do you expect from Nvidia… 70Ti cards with 60Ti performance at 80Ti prices
@Zexx9100 where is that? Proshop Austria has prices listed and it's 969€ to 1249€
There are no prices of the 4070ti in the UK at the moment.
If its that overpriced just get an amd. Oh wait 😅
REMEMBER THEY WANTED TO SELL THIS BULLSHIT HAS A 4080 GPU!
The arguments of inflation and die shinkage being the cause of price increases is simply not born out in financial dealings and chip size. Nvidia has made the active choice to price these cards independent of production costs. Do not excuse coperate greed on the basis of empty excuses.
Why not charge more every generation since it delivers more performance? Raise price every generation till the end of time.
Watch how the rtx 5060 will be $700 because it has the performance of a rtx 4070 ti and it'll be 'good value'. It's like saving $100 on a rtx 4070 ti guys!
Lmfao, agreed.
What a terrible conclusion to come by defending the 4000 pricing
This video shows why I don't watch DF for GPU reviews. Can't blame them as they get paid and early access to nvidia stuff.
Why because he dares to suggest that some element of pricing uptick should be accepted because of inflation? he was tough on them on the 4080 but gives them a pass on a £800 that delivers ballpark 30 series flagship performance? i got my 3070 for 469 but i was extremely lucky, a new one still costs £570 (non FE of course) and that delivered 2080 ti levels of performance. 3090 and TI costs way more that 2080ti and this delivers ballpark at £800 - add inflation into the fact that last gens flagships were "no change from £1600" and it snot an unreasonable position to take. it sucks, but it is what it is. DF shouldn't be suggested as schills tho.
@@karlreading3201 OK, now compare it to the 3080. 20% more performance for 20% higher price (if you're lucky), two years later.
FPS per dollar has not been this bad since the original 2000 series launch, but the number of Nvidia simps is much higher this time for some reason.
@@karlreading3201 watch any other review on the 4070ti and see what atrocious value it is. Literally anyone else.
it's actually insulting that Nvidia even markets this garbage and there's a reason no one is buying this card
The stance they're taking even including inflation is quite shilly even if it's not intentional and just reeks of wanting to stay in Nvidia's good wishes almost and if not that, they need to try harder with their script writing. The dislikes aren't from AMD fanboys or tech illiterate sensationalists. They're people who expect better coverage of a quite universally hated product.
I think this review misses the mark a bit. This card would have been good at maybe 500 like a true 3070 successor (even though 3070 was never that price lets be real) but this card is currently 1000 euro in Denmark. this is just insane for a 70 series card, and Nvidia should not be allowed to get away with this. i sincerely hope no one buys these cards, and that Nvidia wakes up to reality.
I don't want to repeat this, but please remember inflation is a thing. Even if the current price is probably higher than necessary, you can't just ignore inflation and supply chain issues to that low prices.
Tou know, 4070 ti is not successor of 3070 but of 3070ti
Do you remember DF's 4090 launch video? This 4070 Ti video is why they got down on their knees.
@@math3capanema yes I know and that’s fair, but it’s just a name after all and in the end the performance and value is what speaks for itself, this isn’t it. Maybe 4070 comes in and is great and that would be fantastic but so far it’s not looking good
"misses the mark a bit"
That's putting it mildly.
Imagine RAM prices if they were priced on "getting more costs more".
We would be paying $2000 for 8gb sticks coming from the days of MBs of RAM.
RAM is priced on "getting more costs more"... lol
@@icy1007 $/megabyte has fallen throughout the history of DRAM manufacturing lol
@@ValdeSanus - And? You still pay more to get more capacity. lol
@@icy1007 What? RAM prices have been decreasing steadily for years
More like a quarter million USD for 8GB sticks, if I remember the price of ram during the 80286 era.
I think you're being too easy on nvidia for the pricing on this one. Has cost of energy gone up where the card is manufactured? Prices are high in europe, but the cards are not made in europe. Semiconductor pricing may well be up, but cleary nvidia had enough margin to drop the msrp by $100 and still make money. I'm sorry, but I feel like you're just making excuses for nvidia here.
Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking, he is trying really hard to paint the situation in a positive light for nvidia.
wow they made a 4060 ti and called it a 4070 ti nice....
and priced it as a 4080
@@fwef7445 still better value than the amd 7900 series
they made a 192bit 4060 , named it a 4070 ti and priced it like a 4080 🤣
@@CaptainScorpio24 yahhhhh
the 4060s are going to be even worse holy fuck so little vram.
$800 MSRP? Guess they forgot to pass that info on to the retailers. Cheapest I've seen is $950 USD.
they are in stock everywhere too, just goes to show they're not selling
A DF nVidia RTX 4070 Ti review, produced by nVidia, narrate by DF. Bravo. Reviews like this will cause huge doubt over all your reviews and will eventually lead to DF being discredited like many others.
5 days into the video and it's 4k likes and 2.7K dislikes. I think that it's time to go back to the drawing board and decide what to do with this channel.
As expected, this might be the most positive review for this card
lol I guess when you get paid the review must be positive
No, you don't get it, guys. DF staff spend their time being amazed by all those beautiful RT rays and incredible reflections. They don't concern themselves with petty things like costs of GPU. The only concern they have is where to put all these lovely GPUs that Nvidia ships to them. Do they put 4090 on a shelf? Or perhaps a table next to 4080, 3090Ti and 3090. But then how do you arrange them? Fastest to slowest? Newest to oldest? Decisions decisions.
I knew it was going to be positive before even watching it. He tried his best to give 4080 a positive review as well but that's so irredeemably bad even he couldn't do it.
1.9k dislikes and 3k likes on the video lolz
@@Glotttis Which is very easy to do when you don't pay for your gpu, or at worse you business expense it.
And it's not like it's affecting their work. No way in hell John Linneman would, just a couple of weeks ago, professionally describe on this channel a game as "running perfectly well"... because he ran it on his 4090. That couldn't happen, not ever. And when pointed out the fact he only tested this card for the game, he absolutely did NOT dismiss the comment out of hand, never ever ever.
😩
A Fantastic £500 card...oh wait
From DF I'd really like to see actual calculations in regards to the increased production costs and how much of the price increased it really accounts for. I really can't help it but it seems like a straw man argument, distracting from the fact that nvidia (and AMD) just try to keep the prices on crypto-boom level.
spot on. i always see people crying about prices comparatively worse off compared to last gen. whilst ignoring that the production processes and chip manufacturing prices are higher than last gen. we just can't hit the price point of last gen cards until chipmakers expand production
unlikely DF would be able to get that info, but prices have gone up 80% in two years so something stinks.
He's brought that xbox meeting up in every nvidia review trying to justify the pricing
It accounts for like 5% at BEST. The other 95% is just greed. Specially when you consider how the die sizes of these cards are much smaller than last gen, which completely negates the idea that "they have to pay more for the dies".
See the channel I am a Mac. He’s made analysis about all of this, and it reveals the harsh truth about all this: greed from nGreedia.
4070Ti is soo bad that it makes the 7900XT look good. Imo, both the cards are just abysmally priced at this moment. They should be priced in the $450-500 price bracket.
4070ti has better price:perf and way better performance per watt than the 7900XT. Better features, drivers, etc. I wouldn't buy either, but if I had to , I would buy a 4070TI over the AMD product for sure.
@@alexunkin OMFG stop mentioning drivers. If anything drivers are a reason to buy AMD because it's been proven in the past that AMD cards gain up to 20% performance ove rthe years just from driver updates
@@maaax1173 20% percent is dubious. NVIDIA cards also improve over time. additionally you shouldn't have to buy a product with the hopes that it will improve over time. sure if in 6-12 months it is performing 20% better then buy it. If more and more games get RT performance baked in, the NVIDIA products could just as well age better.
@@alexunkin It‘s not hoping, it‘s pretty much guaranteed with how the last 10 years have been, and yes, it gets close to 20%. RT performance on RDNA3 isn‘t bad, Unreal Engine shows that AMD cards can even outperform Nvidia if the games are not Nvidia sponsored
I'm surprised, Digital Foundry are literally the only people who have said this card is value for money or worth it at all. Jay, Linus and all the other big guns have SLATED This product.
It’s because they don’t want to piss Nvidia off. They have done a handful of paid showcases with them lately and they don’t want to piss that money away.
On the one hand, I get it. It’s good business.
On the other hand this launch was horrific and DF is sugar coating it.
Plus they're expecting to find any SKUS for the 799$ msrp lmao, the version they got is gonna be 899 minimum
I don't think the card is that bad. Jay, Linus etc. are over doing it with the hatred and not properly pointing out the pros and cons. The pricing is atrocious for this one, but up against 7900XT, this card actually does seem a better deal at a lower price!
Ideally this should be a 700 dollar card, but despite the pricing differential, the card is performing pretty well and is very efficient too.
@@jal.ajeera 700 dollar card? More like 600. At best. Though it should be 500.
@@mrsittingmongoose Yeah DF have slowly but surely pissed themselves down a well. If Jay hasn't been blacklisted for some of the stuff he's said, I doubt highly if DF would.
Rich needs to stop being a corporate shill and live in the real world. The vast majority of PC gamers don't shop at this price point. In fact, 10 years ago, this was reserved for the highest 1% and yet now it's the mid range. If DF truly want to review a product, make their review for the people who are actually buying said product and explain whether it's good to them, instead of filming a review sucking Nvidia off.
This is a disgrace of a card at that price point, and the fact that they make them at around $214 (factually, as somebody who works in the industry) and then sell at this price is a disgrace.
Rich, you truly deserve culling for this type of content
Do not buy these cards guys. NVIDIA has gone off the reservation
Now lets see if DF caves in to the terrible business exploits of Nvidia this time.....guess more excuses with only verbal slaps to the wrist for Nvidia from Richard.
I think, at this point, we know that AMD & NV are horrific companies trying to fleece the consumer by price fixing this gen.
Disgusting pandering to Nvidia shareholders in this video. You guys are supposed to represent the consumers. You produce excellent graphics analysis videos, but its clear you cant be trusted for hardware reviews.
More and more I'm finding myself struggling to stomach Digital Foundry's PC content and the new gen PC hardware in general.
Their focus now seems to be high-end, ultra expensive parts with under-cooked new features elevated over all else.
It's all a bit... soulless from DF? The 'PHWAR! LOOK AT THEM FRAMES! SO MANY RAYS! HOW DO THEY DO IT? Yes, it costs more, but what doesn't these days, amirte?' or the 'Look how this £2k graphics card can play a 2 decade old game WITH FANCY LIGHTS!!?!!?'. It's a far cry from the genuinely interesting and relevant 'mid range' value battle of the GTX 1060 / RX 580 cards or getting 'console performance' from similarly priced PC parts.
I know the PC hardware landscape has changed but you don't have to like it and you don't have to let it go unchallenged. New node or not, this AD104 die is 1/2 the silicon of the GA102 in the RTX 3080 if the costs are higher they built it for a margin-rich crypto world that looks very different to me now. AMD is no better, they've had countless opportunities to be market disrupters but are happy to tuck into the nVidia-hyper-inflation slipstream.
I can't get excited by these cards or these videos, any chance you could split them out to PC only channel, so I can better avoid them?
This speaks from my soul. All thats still interesting on this channel anymore are DF tech reviews and even those often boil down to "Trace those rays you dirty scum!"
Yep, DF obsessions to Ray Tracing is a bit worrying when developer have actually find way to emulate how light works without the need of expensive RT (looks at SVOGI for example). Obviously, that non RT solution wont make our brain instantly said its looks odd or not 'real', our brain still can accept it and think its real enough during gameplay. Developer needs to focus more on the development of physics, world simulation, NPC A.I. behaviour and gameplay elements. Look at the latest COD for example, the single player of it probably have better graphics, but compared to F.E.A.R. from 17 years ago, its still have very mediocre enemy A.I., and guess what, Id rather replaying F.E.A.R. over and over than COD
As a computer enthousiast for over 25 years I couldn't care less. Until the pricing is good again across the board for a new generation, I'll wait. I've bought an Xbox and will wait untill the market is sane again. That might never happen but Nvidia will never get my money this way and that feels good.
Feels like the most sensible thing would be playing the newest stuff on Xbox or Playstation and returning to these games years later on PC once the prices drop.
It's important to remember that Nvidia is a regular sponsor of this channel. The "review" is not a review but an ad to appease Big Green.
Way to be stupid
@@MrDs7777 stay mad.
overpriced. no more to say.
Sorry, you kinda lost the objective point of view on the pricing here. Calling the RX 7900 XT an unreasonable 900$ while you do know that there will be not a single 4070 Ti available for 799$ is .... biased, sorry.
And no, people have not been buying 4080's, at least not a lot.
And, please don't take this the wrong way but wtf. was that console comparison. Yes of course this card beats the s**t out of Consoles, but go ahead and build a PC compareable to an XBox Series X for 499$. While possible, it is extremely tough to do. And i challange you to beat Series X's RT Performance as well as Rasterised performanced, combined with the same PCIe 4 SSD speeds you need to match the SX or the PS5. I am a PC Gamer to the core, but really, that wasn't your best take on that topic.
You at DF excell in Game Performance Analytics, you excell at the comparison between cards, but your conclusions, specially in relation to price have been a bit lackluster.
Price per Watt is interesting, and certainly in the modern times relevant, but don't just throw Price per Frame out of the Window. And even if it is a LOT of work, just taking MSRP's for granted is a way too easy way out, specially when you can be dead certain the card in question won't be available for that price to more than maybe a select few people. I have to point towards Hardware Unboxed for their hard work to a) test a metric buttload of games to get a good average about a cards speed and b) looking at prices worldwide for each card they test.
I am certainly not suggesting you need to be grumpy and beat up every card that has such a high price, but just sticking with "things get more expensive, deal with it" is just not cutting it and playing into the companies hands here.
It shouldn't even be called 4070 TI, but just plain 4070, and for $100-200 USD less 🤔
Remember when you could pick up a decent midrange card for £250? Those were good times.
Yeah a mid-range card that was outdated after 1 year with a 40mm fan that ran all the time at 4000 rpm and shit-brown or green pcb, what a time to be alive
@@Dr.WhetFarts RX 580 8GB says hello.
@@Dr.WhetFarts when was that? my hd6950 lasted 5 years being not only relevant, just straight up GOOD. my rx480 also did the same. and it is still a relevant gpu now almost 10 years after its release.
@@Dr.WhetFarts
This 😂
The 1070, as an example, was a mid range card when it was released. Price point? $400 bucks. How fast did it go obsolete? Within 3 years, in other words, it was a hunk of useless garbage like most other mid range cards tend to be. If you want a decent card, go mid-high and you'll be fine for years instead of buying something that will quickly be obsolete.
This without a doubt is the beginning of the end for the PC. 😔
To say "$799 for this is fine" is a joke.
Good ! Only the end of pc gaming will bring prices down. I hope all devs stop developing for pc
30:06 I'll just reference this part of the video because I've been saying this ever since the new cards have released. We've reached a point where the process to manufacture the nodes are very very expensive, especially as it gets smaller and more efficient. The demand for electronics in general has increased significantly that we've had massive shortages in all industries such as automotive, medical etc. that has driven the price of silicone to all time highs. When you consider nvidia is putting more of this super expensive silicone in their cards than they ever have it starts to make sense. That's all before you factor in the massive inflation from covid and other factors or the fact that Nvidia obviously wants to make a decent profit margin on the cards, ON TOP of third party vendors also wanting to make their cut, ALONG with retailers who are looking to make a profit on the sale. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, all tech is on the rise.
@@stevetriple8 If you don't understand the economics of GPUs, don't comment on it. You're just regurgitating sht you've heard other people say, because it makes you feel smart.
The 3080 has a 65% larger die size than the 4080, and a 110% larger die size than the 4070ti. By your own logic, last gen was MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE TO MAKE, yet it had a MUCH CHEAPER price for the consumer. These are just humongous amounts of Greed. That's why these cards are priced the way they are. Period.
>Nvidia obviously wants to make a decent profit margin on the cards
Same as every other product on the market, and they haven't increased 70% in price.
>ON TOP of third party vendors also wanting to make their cut
Same as every other product on the market, and they haven't increased 70% in price.
>ALONG with retailers who are looking to make a profit on the sale
Same as every other product on the market, and they haven't increased 70% in price.
You're really breaking ground with your analysis! You're describing a process that is TRUE FOR EVERY PRODUCT EVER CREATED UNDER A CAPITALIST SOCIETY. All billions of them follow the same logic. But only ONE of them increased its price by 70%. Funny how that works. You're the biggest anti-intellectual of all time.
>This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, all tech is on the rise.
Yeah, we all know how much more expensive SSDs, RAM and CPUs are getting. Ohwait... they aren't. My bad.
oh palease - PC will be just fine, it has weathered much worse
@BINARYGOD exactly the 50xx series will come out, then all of a suddenly the 4070ti will be the best value after the typical price cut that comes with being an older series card.
I personally am not accepting these prices. Nvidia and AMD are going to have a tough time convincing people to upgrade when the upgrade costs significantly more than what people paid for their current GPU.
Most people spend a certain amount every few years on upgrades. If you spent $500 on a GPU 3 years ago but a $500 GPU now doesn't give you any extra performance... why upgrade lol
If you have a 3080, theres no need to upgrade.
My 1080ti was 650 ~5 year ago. At 850 for a significant uplift and considering inflation (which is huge a.t.m, that 650 is 790 in today's money ) it seems reasonable.
4070 Ti will sell out on day 1. Much better sales than the 4080.
Nvidia made their money the rtx 4000 series launch was successful. Most people don't listen to RUclips reviews if they like it they buy it thats exactly what happened.
the 4000 series is not selling well - or rather, 3000 series are selling out everywhere and many places still ahve 4000 series. We have no idea how well 4000 series have been supplied, of course - maybe they are putting ou fewer units vs 3000 series.
Anyway, people are overall not happy any anyone outside of the "I buy it no matter what" group is showing it by getting "last gen" instead.
£700 is my absolute maximum, even allowing for inflation, but in reality I've never spent more than £600.
Last year was the first time I dipped into the used market to upgrade my PC and got a RTX 3080 for £600.
In fairness, it was in absolutely spanking nick, card and box looked and smelt brand new.
Also, I sold my GTX 1080 ti shortly theeafter for £260, so the net spend on the card was actually only £340.00.
The issue only comes if you've left it too late to upgrade and your old card is worth jack to sell on the market.
You guys are shilling too hard for Nvidia by trying to gaslight your own audience here. It's like the review was written by nVidia's marketing, trying so hard to not call out how atrocious the actual stagnation of price performance is this gen. "You pay more and get more"?? Yeah in a linear fashion with no gain in price performance are 2 years. It's just shameful how obvious your biases are.
3060 Ti = 45% cores of a 3090, 40% slower, 26% cost ($399 vs $1499)
4070 Ti = 42% cores of a 4090, 40% slower, 50% cost ($799 vs $1599)
Yeah, no thank you
I feel like putting the PS5 vs 4070 ti metric was rather disingenuous. You're looking at a vacuum 2x performance while just looking at the GPU, but your system has the most expensive stack of CPU and you have 32gb of ddr5. Your total system based off those two things, plus probably an SSD and the new ddr5 platform is astronomically more expensive than a PS5. Worse still, is that the CPU +motherboard, SSD + memory, or the GPU alone each cost from almost as much to significantly more than a PS5, meaning you'll possibly spend between 4x the price for 2x performance from a console....
You're thinking way too much into it mate. The PS5 is quite popular so he was using it as an example. He didn't tell people to buy a 4070Ti instead. The viewer can choose to do what they want based on their tastes and budget.
yes lets trying pluigging a 4070ti into a socket by itself and see how well it runs games
these morons forget that the ps5 is the entire unit
Frankly no one cares about Ray Tracing.... Take it out and the 7900xt beats all the other cards by a big margin.
Speak for yourself. If I pay anything above 500 bucks, I expect good raytracing. Until AMD’s RTX is decent they’re not on my radar
It is a $400/$500 card nothing more. Who are you trying to fool here?
No FE, no $799 price.
No lie!
wow, DF sounds so tone deaf and out of touch when it comes to Nvidia and pricing.
The 2.1x vs PS5 comparison comes with 4x price increase for that test PC though...
But you can’t even use a browser on your ps5 though
Welcome to PC gaming. It's why I ditched it.
@@user-iq334 everyone has a laptop and/or phone to do those basic stuff.
@@zeus1117 Sure! and even a smartphone! But that doesn't invalidate my point.
Test PCs use fastest available parts to avoid as much as possible being limited by another component, and it's the same even testing a low end card
To your average gamer, a Steamdeck and a Switch basically covers everything out there. Together they cost less than a single 4070.
Agreed. Or a ps5. Even at current prices, it still offers better value than a gaming pc. It also comes with great exclusive games, same case for switch
@@nitemantube Honestly, i would say a Series S is probably all the average gamer needs these days. And with the money you save over a PS5 you might as well get some games to boot. But don't get me wrong, a PS5 is still a fantastic deal compared to this GPU shitshow of a generation.
A switch? Hell no. That thing is a drink coaster. A playstation 5 or an xbox sure
NVIDIA Foundry is yet again in action.
It really should have been $650, $700 tops.
It should have been $400 given it costs Nvidia around $200 to create one
@@ammanus356 idk what it costs to make one but they're really painting themselves into a corner. This means the 4070 will be $700 and likely be right in line performance wise with the 3080, so zero price to performance improvement, utterly absurd. Definitely skipping this gen.
This is a 60 class card. It should’ve been $450, max.
@@FlyBird it's all subjective, I personally think this should have been the base 4070 at $550. It's all bs at the end of the day. Nvidia just wants to be apple.
@@ammanus356 I'd love to see the source for that claim.
You are pushing just Nvidia's narrative. You just forgot to mention that 4070ti = 3x 3090ti other than that basically you checked all points from Nvidia's 4070ti presentation. TBH I becoming more and more disappointed by DF coverage... Wasn't too sure is this still good old DF or Nvidia's PR channel, but no, it says Digital Foundry here.
i would say this is a sweet spot for performance. but the card should cost half of what it does.
Based on what? your wishes? I would like too to have cheaper price but is undeniable that production costs increased a lot
Unbelievable digital foundry are truly now beholden to Nvidia
its a SHAME you give excuses to nvidias money grabbing etiches. youre one of the only channel who thinks this thing should cost 850$. shame....
Digital Foundry’s out of step with other reviewers this generation with respect to Nvidia cards. I’m amazed by how okay you are with this price/performance gen on gen. If this continues across the board from Nvidia and AMD, console gaming will win and PC gaming will cool off. Disappointing really. A $1500+ AUD 70 Ti is just disgusting to me.
As a console only gamer whos latest system is a base PS4 from it's launch in 2013, id like to think console and PC gaming both have something to offer to the consumer. But it shouldent be just because PC gaming becomes prohibitively more expensive as the numbered cards gradually price people out of the running.
Don't buy it then. Simple. And thank God DF are slightly professional. Fuck clickbait.
Terrible review.. not surprising when they work with Nvidia.. defending the prices is a joke. Stick to image quality fellas
Where is the 3x times the 3090ti? Why not call Nvidia out for the B.S? 4080 thats now a 4070ti and so to say cheaper....
I respect the hell out of Rich and the DF team, and this video is fantastic overall, but bringing up the inflation rate at the end as some sort of justification for nvidia's pricing is silly. This is a 33% price increase over the 3070 TI which came out a year and a half ago. The cumulative inflation over the past two years is less than half that. To get that level of cumulative inflation you'd have to go back to 2011. This is corporate greed pure and simple, and now that the crypto bubble burst, it will be punished by the markets.
True. The shills and fanboys always use that inflation nonsense to justify price gouging. Let the companies expose what these cards actually cost to make if it is all inflation.
NGL, every time they open their mouth about Nvidia tech or their cards, it sounds like an ad for them. There is no justifying this.
@@AdmiralCoxx They're enthusiastic about graphics and new technologies, the truth is that Nvidia is doing a lot introducing new technologies in performance and graphics so maybe it sounds that way because it's reflective of the way the industry currently is?
Not true, the actual inflation is much higher than the "officially reported" value for some reason, just ask any manufacturer of basically anything how much their costs have gone up over the last 2-3 years.
You can't compare the overall inflation rate and apply it to a GPU. GPU inflation is far higher than general consumer inflation, for reasons mentioned. Additionally , future inflation is factored into the product lifecycle, where $799 is going to be worth a whole lot less in real terms over the next two years.
this gpu is a 4060 TI
Worst DF review I have ever watched.
Rich i would love if you could always show both the raw FPS and % diff at the same time, it gets confusing switching all the time plus i feel that most of the time you are just showing the % diff. My take away is that unless you want DLSS3, go with an used 3090/3090 Ti for less than 800 if you can.
Everyone will use dlss3 bro. Its almost free performance. No point in going with 3000 series now. 4070ti is pretty good. Wud have been perfect if it was 700
They do this purposefully to confuse the viewer, making them more likely to listen to their opinions first which are overly positive and not going to ruffle Nvidia’s feathers. Pretty obvious at this point.
@@anuzahyder7185 I need to get a 4090 first, but dlss 3 looks bad for any online game.
3090/3090 Ti is more expensive than the 4070 Ti at MSRP.
@@michaelcarson8375 u dont need dlss3 for online mp bro. It is for demanding single player or games which are bottlenecked by cpu
How fast is it? = no
Is it worth the price? = no
Nvidia claimed 3x 3090ti performance? = no
Telling AMD and Nvidia to piss off? = yup!
This is the very first DF video that i didn't like, and not feel comfortable watching it. There is nothing in my view that justify the outrageous price of the 4000s
Funny (sad) seeing Digital Foundry trying to make a case in favor of the outrageous 4070ti price/performance compared to last gen
Are you joking me? How much did nvidia pay you for speaking this nonsense? The price is clearly due to nvidia's greed, not about the cost. How can a 295 mm^2 die be that expensive even if it is using the 4nm node. Remember the GA102 die on 3080 is 628mm^2
People are struggling to buy food even in western countries, the price of $850 for x70 card is insane and should not be accepted
Seems like Rich is the only reviewer out of the ones I usually watch that is not outraged by this card... supprised he even seems happy with it.
That's what exclusives during the launch of flagships get you, "correct editorial direction".
@@jebusnazareth1869 Or Digital Foundry just isn't AMD sponsored like some other channels are. Especially Hardware Unboxed are known AMD shills.
Editorial direction 101
Digital foundry generally ignore historic pricing trends when evaluating product whereas most other normal review sites will factor in several generations in determining the value proposition of a GPU. It is for that reason especially that I think DF are way behind the curve in GPU reviewing.
Rich doesn't need to mine gamer salt to make bank. That's why I'm subbed to this channel.
Like, I get it, the cards are expensive. If they're too rich for your blood, don't buy 'em. I've got enough disposable income, so I got a 4090 Suprim Liquid X. If I didn't have the cash on hand, I wouldn't. It should be that simple.
Time to unsubscribe from their Patreon. I don't support DF to hear some marketing BS. The like to dislike ratio says it all.
Thjs card should never be over 599, nvidia is insane.
Lol you think it should be CHEAPER gen-on-gen than last generation!? 🤣
@@Wobbothe3rd Yes, considering how very minor of an upgrade it is. Do you think $1000 for a 1440p card that cant even run RTX without DLSS is a good deal? 4k is out the window with the low vram.
@@Wobbothe3rd This is, at best, a 3070 replacement, maybe a 3060ti. Don't be lulled into believing the BS name they've given the card.
@@steveleadbeater8662 i dont care about their BS names, i care about their BS prices
@@BillCipher1337 It's the same thing. They give their cards a designation that is usually far better. This started as a 4080 12GB, smoke and mirror stuff. It's a 4070/4060ti card for £900.
Not really a fan of this review . 4070ti is overpriced and that’s it not point in saying that you don’t mind the price of the 4070ti when us consumers disagree . Nvidia and amd need to wake up .
These overpriced gpus are a great advertisement for console gaming. I wonder how many PC gamers just give up and go buy a ps5 instead, things are just getting too silly
This card may look nice in benchmarks, but I can only see, that I paid 350 Euros for my Geforce 970 back then, now I would have to pay 1000 Euros, absolutely bonkers.
970 ti?
Looks like "inflation" is now running about 30% per year.
There is no such GPU as a "970 Ti"... lol
@@icy1007Yes, my bad...but you know what I mean. But this shows even more how shitty the gpu market is these days, with different versions between cards with the same name.
@@hesierraa358 I bought that thing 8 years ago, cut me some slack.
I really like the content of this channel, that's why i just dont get this video. All new gpus have AWFUL price to performance. Why gpus increase so much in cost, but it doesnt happen the same with cpus? Besides, the cost of materials has increased, yes...but the die area is way smaller in the 4070ti and 4080 in comparison with the 3080 (gamers nexus data), so it makes no sense.
Anyways: glad to see that this products are left on the shelves.
Comparing a stand alone gpu to a ps5 or xbsx is stupidest thing I have ever seen.
Didn't nvidia say 3x 3090ti?!?
Nvidia should hire todd howard to help them with their ridiculous claims. "16x the Details, 4x the size"
No comparison to 7900xtx ?
Nice as I expected I don't know why I bother watching your gpu reviews
I will be sticking to bodcast and game reviews
I would have liked to have heard DF comment on the 3 x the power of the 3090ti claimed by Nvidia.
Why are they comparing the x70 level to the x90 level anyway? They need to justify their prices. They should naturally compare to previous incarnations. But they would not be able to drastically increase prices that way. Shame for the consumer.
They did address it. Watch the video.
whilst an outlier it wasn't a lie, the bad thing about the comparison was that the 4070ti was using DLSS 3 frame generation and the 3090ti was only using DLSS 2 and only seen in one game.
@@Wobbothe3rd Except they did not. Not even in their written review over on Eurogamer.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
Man, I love when big companies try to get one over on consumers and it ends up costing them millions. Music to my ears 🎶
Its costing Nvidia shit, theyre doing better than any other gpu company. Total market dominance.
@@Wobbothe3rd Stop snorting Nvidia copium, dude. They won't send you a free GPU even with this attitude, lol.
@@DaWolfetrax i don't think thats copium thats just the fact of the matter. I hate nvidia but just look at their marketshare.
@@Wobbothe3rd In Q3 of last year, desktop GPU shipments hit their lowest point since Q3 of 2005. They had a 42% year-over-year drop compared to the same time frame in 2021. Nvidia still has the lead (at least, as long as you don't count integrated GPUs) but sales have taken a nose dive.
@@derangel9143 Q3 was pre 4000 series release. That data doesn’t include any 40 series cards
Alright. I'm blocking this channel for comparing One single PC part vs an Entire console system.
what a milquetoast apologist take on this dumpster fire of a card
So any reason why you didn't use the RTX 3070TI to compair the RTX 4070 TI or was the 30% plus price increase over manufacturer's suggested retail price a bit harder to explain ! I was under the impression this was a replacement for the rtx 3070ti and not a rtx 3080/90. Guess the are also going to be more stock room fillers to go with the RTX4080 as well. Still come 1st April Nvidia have given people plenty of material to use.
because then they might have to sound a bit more negative, and they apparently dont want to, for whatever reason
Think your right ! I should remember there logic used on future reviews
Remember the $299 gtx 1060? I miss those days 😔
$250 USD for the 8800GT was the greatest value GPU of all time. OF ALL TIME! **shrugs**
It shouldn't even be called 4070 TI, but just plain 4070, and for $100-200 USD less.
You guys just drink the manufacturer's koolaid.
Ngreedia, the way it's meant to be paid.