Very good content! Refreshing to have longer length tournament content that really focuses on the players. I felt like PGStats would go too fast at times, or the impact wasn't as felt due to their speed. Mad respect.
Ddee not losing any games until Winners Finals was crazy. Sucks to see those sets so dominant for Sonix and Light, but Ddee still popped off and I'm glad we got to see more of him since he seldom travels.
@@NeutralL12 exactly. However, I can see why Fox and Sonic would be really hard for Ddee even if he had perfect mental. You may have seen Sonix's tweet, he lost the only game he interacted with Ddee, so he decided to avoid interaction in all other games. And Fox is able to get in on Steve without much issue
To be fair, DJDon had no chance at the end of the set vs Anathema, and them screwing around shows how bad the situation he's in. Anyone can empathize when all hope feels lost, it makes sense
As dumb as i may be, but i love watching every char even sonic,minmin and yeah even steve, but it is not like i love to play against every char. It's just so you shouldn't complain as much
Same. I'm often rooting for their opponent, but that doesn't mean I want them gone. It's interesting to see new counters being found to the evolving meta.
I felt bad for Sonix when people started booing at him during grand finals. I mean hating the character is understandable, but player wise I think it was a little too far.
I have nothing but respect for the kid. I hated Sonic, the character, but to deny his grind and pushing of the character and his skill is just silly. I'm rooting for him just cause everyone else are such haters of him just cause he plays Sonic. Watching Sonix closer for awhile and I'm starting to actually enjoy the games, seeing how people deal with his options.
@@adomomcjinkies4787He won CEO with one of the best loser’s runs of all time. Everyone has their days when they can’t take a loss, but idk if Sonix as a player has that much trouble in general
I didn't know how much hilarious shit happened this tournament. Sure some of it shouldn't be happening in terms of competitive spirit but damn it was funny.
I think the issue for me personally is that when I watch a smash tournament I want to see good clean gameplay of the game I like to play, whereas what we’ve been getting lately are characters that don’t play “smash” like sonic, kazuya, Steve, min min, etc. So many characters in the meta stray from what a smash character should be that it’s not fun to watch imo.
Which kinda still fits into the weird issue that is the Smash Ultimate community suddenly having people who just don't want to watch the game anymore, either in certain conditions or altogether.
Well some of those characters are just campers. Minmin, Sonic, they're playing the game the way a camping character is designed to play it. Sonic is a top tier, but is he so above Joker or Steve or Palutena or Pikachu etc that it's "a problem". Really what people are saying is they don't like watching a character. And yeah there are plenty of characters I don't wanna watch like Olimar or Villager etc, but that doesn't mean these characters are problems. It's so much more common for people to say I don't like a character ban the character than for people to be more neutrally thinking about if a ban makes sense. Compare talking about banning Hero because of his rng and text that puts competitors at a disadvantage when international players can't tell what spells the other is using, something that comes from a place a pointing out flaws in a character at the competitive level having problems, to the modern talk about Steve and Kazuya. For the most part the modern conversation is fuck the players everyone is carried ban them take them out of the game, and it really feels childish and not people seriously thinking about it. Just say I hate the character etc but don't pretend it's about making the game more fair when it's really about people not liking to watch camping and pretending camping isn't a legitimate competitive strategy especially for zoners. Some characters really do break the game to some extent. Kazuya is overturned in advantage state to an absurd degree, Steve can change how the game is played with block. Personally I really hate Kazuya and I'd be fine with nerfs to Kazuya and Steve but I don't think either should be banned. I did at one point when it seemed like there wasn't a way to get out of Kazuya 0 to deaths but those are far rarer now than a year ago so I was wrong when I thought they broke the game. And I thought that up until very recently. Overall to me it seems like there is a far larger focus on hating characters and players than on the game's health and calling it "problems" is just a way to make people feel better about hating. Like all the people calling Riddles carried and saying he has no skill. Separate hating the character from pretending we know what's best for the health of the game.
@@isaacnikolic5895 I think for the big majority it really isnt about "making the game more fair" but "making the game more enjoyable/entertaining". Ofc nobody should harass the players. But smash is a community and the viewers matter, especially to the TOs. And if people are unhappy its only right for them to point out the shortcomings they see and even to point towards "actions to improve the situation" if they think they see them. You talk about the people just hating characters. but its not like if they critic steve or sonic, they do it without reason. And even if so. Only because you may label their critic just as "hate" it does not change of fix the fact, that a lot of people are just unhappy with how the matches or segments of a tournament turn out, if the problematic characters are involved.
@isaacnikolic5895 steve and kazuya definitely deserve to be banned and sonic should have never been added to smash to begin with. Him existing makes the game so much worse. His main strategy is literally trying his hardest to make the opponent get a stroke or wanna kill themselves. Horrible game design.
I feel that a way to improve smash tornament is by having a ban system different from what we have now, hear me out. Steps, 1.- Players submit 10 characters they choose that they wil, or might play as, 2.- normal smash rules 3.- when a player looses they may ban one character of the opponent from their pick list This will alow players to ban bad matchups, and force more characters on a players play options & better to view games.
Hard no. Some people are character specialists and I’d just not participate in a tourney at all if I knew someone perma ban my main every match like it’s League of Legends
Man I love watching Steve and sonic, hope we get a lot more of it in the future. I’m sure that would keep the scene alive and well through our recent and probably upcoming hard times. Man it’s amazing to be a smash ultimate fan. Man I sincerely hope nothing changes and everything stays the same and we continue down this path and we stay consistent, constant, changeless, immutable, uniform, unvarying, and predictable. 👍
This is why MU experience and knowledge is so important and why IMO banning characters is a bad idea, but ya know, no one wants to admit that 😇 It's sad people are so against slower gameplay, even when playing. People are too quick to give up during a match, or not take the time to properly assess and figure out what to do in camping situation. It's a skill in itself to be able to play around camping. People are also so against watching it. Like, if you wanna see fast paced gameplay, idk watch a speedrun or some shit. Dude, SO MANY sports are slow asf, it's about the interactions and smart plays that people make in these tense situations that goes severely underappreciated. People are just too used to Melee and what it is NOW, and think all smash games should be like that -- hell, all PLATFORM FIGHTERS should be like that. And I simply don't agree. Ultimate really feels like a perfect balance between Sm4sh and Melee, not in mechanics, not at all, but in principle of methodology in attack and defense. In what you do to extend your advantage or get around defense. It's so incredibly deep to analyze, and I really feel if fans actually took the time to UNDERSTAND the level of play, they would far more greatly appreciate some good defensive gameplay. A game doesn't need to be fast to be entertaining, not at all.
People opting not to watch the top 8 of big tournaments because they hate the characters those players play is not rare in the fgc. In tekken for example, the balancing is good but usually lends to a few characters being way better than the rest and those characters usually are in top 8, because the best players switch to them, outside of a few dedicated solomains.
@@RisterMice Imo it seems like a bit less than smash but tekken fans still hate top tiers especially since its so common for pro players to switch to them, way more so than in smash. And they also hate non top tiers (like yoshimitsu) just for being extremely corny, like sonic or min min but I generally think people hate yoshimitsu way less than people hate sonic
@@RisterMice id say hating top tiers is more common in Tekken but nobody thinks top tier players are carried cause its mostly the players that were already at the top before picking up a top tier that dominate with them once they made the switch. I consider myself to be the opposite of a hater in Smash but as a leo solomain i used to hate Julia back in the day
as being a family member of light, i really enjoyed mcon due to watching his performance : ) very proud of my cousin and can't wait to see him accomplish more.
Can we stop saying “he’s just a kid”? You can be a kid and still 1. Be a scum bag 2. Play like a scumbag 3. Play a scummy character. U don’t need to be an adult to warrant criticism. Also stop saying this is a kids game. This is competition. Every sport can be considered a kids game.
Tbh in Sonix's defense. Sonic is the most versatile character in the game, being able to adapt to almost any MU and constantly change playstyles drastically, but some MUs force Sonic to pick only one playstyle Such is the case for Fox and Steve, where Sonic has to only play full aggro and campy respectively, which is also why playing Sonic isn't just a mental game for the opponent but the player as well In GFs, Sonix had already donde a ton of camping to DDee (And Imma be honest I'm just glad to see a Steve get timed out, knowing they can get their full arsenal and still lose despite spamming anvil and minecart is satisfying, might be boring but at least it ain't bs), this led to Sonix almost forgetting how to re-adapt that playstyle for Fox, which is a full 180° that requires to play as if you were doing a combo video (Sonic combo videos are hype, would recommend clockwork), that's why Sonix played so hype then, bc Sonic CAN perfectly be just as aggressive as Fox, it's just that most of the time camping is more reliable and people really just think Sonics camp even when they're not due to that reputation. Sonic's combos take a ton of skill and practice tbh, so it's a shame when people don't enjoy a MU like Fox where they just want Sonic to lose when he literally performs way more combos with higher risk/reward than Fox does, it's a shame bc GF reset was super hype (Before the unfortunate and frustrating SD of course). Sonix is just built different and most of the time goes for a more aggressive playstyle that gets overshadowed bc of the campy reputation of the other Sonics (Wrath and KEN are the best examples of this), really wish this wasn't the case. btw Sonix has already beaten Steves before, incluiding Onin at Ludwig's (criminally not streamed nor recorded) and DDee has said Sonic destroys both Steve and Kazuya, almost any FP2 character except Mythra which is somewhat even
really loved the video! coming from someone who once loved the smash scene but now i rly only watch a few youtubers or play with a couple friends every once in a while. the vid was rly well structured and edited well too. hoping to see more to come in the future!
damn tho as much as i love seeing young players make great breakout runs and whatnot at tournaments, it is kinda sad seeing people just give up because of a boring matchup (sonic) or even like w ddee how he was just straight up losing to light.
I can confirm I was one of those people that after Kola and Light were out, I closed the stream. It was only later did I watch the light vod because he won. I'm not huge on your devil advocate points as the main problem is the character's and how they're optimally played. Despite how well they're piloted, fundamentally are not entertaining characters and doubled down when your watching both non entertaining characters one the screen. It truly felt like Light was up against a dark souls boss controlling the pace in winners/grands and every punish he inched was celebrated our of spite of match up. You can praise all the players and boast about their performance but if something is boring, you can't argue with someone not interested.
@@RisterMice Sorry, You did, however I felt like your devils advocate points - didn't really hold up to the main idea of the video mentioning players performances.
Also DDee was seconds away from a timeout while djdon wasn't (Im not blaming either of these players I love them both and it's stupid for blaming two kids for ruining tournaments)
I don’t play ultimate because I hate trying to move in this game beyond belief, but as a spectator, I think characters like steve, sonic, and min min are enjoyable to watch. Watching people try and play around their crazy options is hella interesting
Ultimate competitive would be saved legit just by Nintendo coming back and releasing a few more balancing patches. Increase the endlag or startup on spin dash, nerf Steve frame data a tiny bit all around, improve Kazuya's approach game while tuning down his intangibility and removing tough guy from him. Buff some of the low tiers. Or do none of that. Dropping the game entirely literally a single patch after the last DLC character was the dumbest and least caring approach Nintendo could have taken for this game. I get that the roster is the most balanced we've had pretty much ever, but just because something's good, doesn't mean that it can't be improved.
I agree that this isn’t anything as dramatic as the “death of competitive Ultimate” or whatever, but suggesting that Ddee wasn’t carried to a PERFECT BRACKET RUN as far as he went at a tournament this stacked is just silly. I’m sure the kid is good. He’s not THAT good. That’s 100% Steve shenanigans. lol
I'm not on smash twitter, and I would never go to a player's post and leave a hate comment for them playing lame. Still, I can't help be a bit irked by the way DDee acted in his sets versus Sonix and Light. He's obviously a dumb kid, and a 'troll', but if you are a very good player and steamroll the competition playing the campy game, you have no excuse to give up because you're struggling with a mu, and frustrated that someone is beating you at your own game. More than anything, I'm just disappointed that his great run ended on such a sour note.
A big part of smash are the false stakes. It's like watching WWE. You know the players care to some degree, but for most people its just a game. But as a viewer, you want the stakes to feel real. It would be like seeing two fighters giggling together before a fight. It just makes it feel worthless. Stakes are important. Frivolity, as amusing as it is, has never been what made smash great and good to watch.
I just came back from another convention. And when I saw this video, I thought "Man, I was actually planning to go there for next year. Was the con itself really that bad?" Then I clicked, and forgot it was a smash bros thumbnail. Sorry lol
Yeah, I'm gonna be really blunt here, this kind of wishy washy, devil's advocate attitude is why Smash 4 died in a whimper You guys are treating players like Sonix with kiddie gloves way too much If he knows he plays a hated character, in an even more hatred play style, what else did he expect other that being hated by the general viewer? He wins? Outside the game he's a chill dude? Perfect! no one is denying his wins, nor they're less valid, but he knows he's playing in a ways the community dislikes, regardless if he's a cool guy or not. How about instead of arguing if Kazuya or Steve are worth banning first, you guys first regulate such strategies in favor of both player and viewers engagement? Melee did it, why the hell you guys can't?
Man I understand why people hated the Wrath Jahzz0 set but I honestly love watching how people adapt to such difficult MUs, I wish Jahzz0 could've made it game 5 at least!
Also I just wanna say something about 14:59. No one is attacking the kid personally! Calling steve cringe especially during that set is not harassing a kid because quite literally that set was a snooze fest. Epeseically during the last part of anathema vs djdon that was 100% the worst set ive seen in a while lmao.
I’ve said sonic was more problematic than Steve and Kazuya for years and no one wanted to believe. You can ban those two if you want but take sonic with you or this is gonna be ACTUAL the future of ults meta Good thing light put them both in their place 🎉
Tbh the video is more or less advocating why Steve is the problem and Sonic isn’t really the problem especially when there is never 2 Sonics in a Top 8 of a major ever while Steve and sometimes Kazuya if you want to count Tea does
@@janswhatsupdoc we have 3 Steves in a Top 8 of an actual Major yet you would just blink it off lol Seems so biased lmao and that’s fine. Ban the whole roster fr fr 🫡
Characters should not receive blame because it is true that they are lame however there is a huge cast of characters in which each one can receive spotlight but players don’t use them
@@RisterMice That is true however we have seen many characters that no one thought will reach top 8 like chunky for example. Not everyone know how to fight low tiers as good as any character because of their popularity for example Spargo vs Skyjay
tbh I've seen a lot of Steve mains give up during a tournament match. DjDon, DDee, Onin and Jake. I don't mean just going secondaries, but Up B-ing offstage or messing around like in this tournament. no hate to them ofc, it's always when they pretty much lost anyway. I do think Steve players often rely on their game plan to the point where if someone figures it out and can beat it then they feel really lost and it ends up being a wash. the character has so much room for adaptation but that's a case of Steve being so good it negatively affects the players.
Even if you get washed, you should still be trying your best and I don't get why several Steve pro players just give up. Acola got bodied by Sparg0 five sets in a row, but he's still trying.
@@legrandliseurtri7495 i mean even if you're a top player you don't have to take the game seriously, and i understand being frustrated if you're getting bodied, so i don't judge them even if it's disappointing as a viewer. but yeah kudos to Acola, you can tell that he's always trying, hope he figures something out to make it competitive
i honestly feel like the people complaining and refusing to watch based on characters are both not exclusive to this game and a vocal minority. people refused to watch sm4sh cos of bayo, so maybe it's just a smash thing, idk. but viewership numbers and attendance numbers are still fine in this game so far, indicating that it's just an annoying minority who can't appreciate different styles of play to rushdown / patient offence neutral
It was just disrespectful for ddee to have a temper tantrum on stage when sonic decided to play the matchup. Specially to all the thousands of viewers honestly
I wouldn't describe it as a tantrum when both him and his opponent were laughing about it, although I perfectly understand why people found it disrespectful, which is why I said I didn't condone or approve of it.
I really don't want to hate on someone based on the character they use but I kind of have to do it for wrath. Congrats to him for getting top8 but I know I'm shutting my twitch screen whenever he plays
very interesting that Ultimate is perhaps the only game I can think of where a problem like this has happened. Even HBox when he was winning everything as puff didn't have people turning off their streams.
I think Wrath’s play style reminds of why we had such a problem with sonic during Covid/wifi era. And makes me think players like Sonix and Ken aren’t really playing that campy anymore. Having said that i do still skip most sonic matches when watching smash regardless 😅
@@RisterMice people loved rooting against hbox and wanted to see him lose as he was the best at the time. People dont see them as the best but carried so its less intresting of a story is my guess at least.
He didn't drop a single game and picked Steve , wow really dude , that's literally every Steve being allowed in tournaments,that's literally the proof the champion is carrying the player
There's nothing you can do about how people feel when watching something, specially anything competitive, you watch because it's fun, its hype and while I don't mind acola's highly technical Steve, I do hate watching Steves that have absolutely no techs or fundies but still win because Steve, as well as the boring af gameplan Sonic's have in general, it is a good character and they're good players, but it is not fun to watch most of the time, simply as that. And if something you don't have to do is not fun anymore, the healthiest you can do is stop doing it, in this case, watching it. There's absolutely no way I can hype myself up to watch 2-3 Sonic matches back to back, I was really hyped going into momocon as an spectator but I just stopped caring, stopped watching hoping Light would win and I'm glad he did, however, I'm not hateful towards any players or even characters, but I can't ignore the fact that while I love watching competitive smash, what I said earlier is also true.
In regards to merf's characters, there's a player I know called CamoCat who uses the same combination. I believe CamoCat said chrom beats Steve, maybe that's part of the reason
In winner's semis I used the 'Overture to Pursuit' song from The Great Ace Attorney 2, but for the Grands set I used 'Pursuit - Time for a Great Turnabout' from The Great Ace Attorney 1
I only played Sonic in Brawl because I was a huge Sonic fanboy. But that Sonic v Ken match just... why? Sonic doesn’t run away from his problems, he faces them head on, and I feel like more Sonic players should play as such
I'll take my honest opinion, about kola, being a roy main myself. Kola could've won if he trained to beat a sonic prior because I see that sonic weaknesses can work in favor of kola. Sonic is dependant on dealing damage by spin dashes half on the air and half on the ground. Roy possesses a weapon that can tip the scale a little more in his favour, the counter. I did some experiments and although the counter does not work when sonic is in the air, while grounded it works most of the time and can be activated in time, with this you set up sonix to think twice with his spinning aggression, then pressure with mental games making soncx try to bait the counter and in those instances attack instead always on a reactive level never kola being the aggressor. On the other hand I would play a very defensive style because of sonic speed can get out of most shield and all, and focus on keeping my distance. Waiting for him to approach and going mostly for grabs, game 2 would work with conditioning spot dodges then transition to double edge dances. Changing the playstyle to a reactive one. With that said kola would have a chance, sonic doesn't have variation besides speen attacks he also lacks range for his normal attacks compared to roy. Knowing Kola, he would adapt and probably would've won. The counter also works, and I have applied this with people far better than me and close to pro level, if you have a a very high percent and are basically about to die, do a counter when off stage, instead of taking the hit from someone doing the chase it works and if he is also at high percent he will die, roy has the hardest counter out of all the fire emblem characters yes even Ike. I tested the counter with multiple characters to the point of almost KOing ganondorf countering his warlock punch with roy.
Yeah if he learns sonic counterplay well enough he could absolutely beat sonix. Roy is very good against sonic (like plus 0.5 or 1 if you're generous. Sonic is insanely good)
I don't think people who have watched the Smash for the past few years think Ddee is carried. He's very talented, but he plays Steve and he plays Steve pretty lame. Like what else was Sonix supposed to do? I don't care that he gave up, I just think the way he played forelced Sonix to camp harder.
@@RisterMice yeah, Steve is slow and can't approach Sonic. Sonic doesn't have disjoints and doesn't have fast fall nair like fox, so this match up will do this.
I guess i see how ppl would hate seeing ppl not take it as seriously and giving up but if these players were to take it seriously and didnt laugh or smile and just have fun we'd have more situations like kola 💀 and tbh as a steve main win or lose ur gonna be hated anyways so it didnt matter that much
calling sonic/x timing people out by using a special move from half stage "patience and mental fortitude" while not giving any of that same credit for steve mains seems disingenuous/double standard, ngl also something to note on your inevitable gateway legends video (i myself went there and currently reside in STL), we don't have steves. hell, the entire state of missouri has maybe one solo steve with any kind of results and even then he's not well known because he never travels. For the record im not counting AK playing a tertiary ass character against low/mid level players (myself included in the first bit) as a real steve main. Saying that GL was better because no steve is just plain wrong. Had it not been for the ban I think there might've been 1, maybe 2 steves get any kind of results there, Onin being one. I think it was more due to the excellent vibe/venue (massive sports bar complex type thing compared to a dull ass convention center) rather than any one character. I've seen tweets saying they were happy to see 0 steve mains at GL, but truth be told, they were unlikely to find any had steve been legal. STL has a pretty diverse cast of characters that we play. It's no MD/VA or DFW where we have 3 robs, 2 steves and a samus in top 8, but rather a nice amalgamation of snakes, soras, robins, and the occasional bowser among many others. I'd hate for GL to be propped up on false narratives instead of looking at and recognizing the amazing storylines, results, and people at GL.
I get what you mean but Gateway Legends wasn't just populated by STL, there were a ton of people from out of region and there would've been more Steve's that would've gone had he been legal. I know this because I watched a lot of my friends from Kansas City head there last weekend, one of them was Deathspade
@@RisterMice I realize out of region talent came but there's still a lack of steves throughout the entire state of missouri as well as states close to missouri not having many at all (im also including KC in this because they're basically missouri). steve being banned to my knowledge literally affected only one steve who was registered and then dropped out once the ban was announced.
Maybe just a style preference, but I feel like it would be nice for sort of "news report" type videos to be a little less opinionated. It's good to talk about the drama and what happened, but I think it would be nice to have the personal opinions saved for a separate video talking about the situation. Obviously this is your channel so you can make it however you like, just wanted to point out that I feel its a bit strange to have so many opinions in a news type video👍
That's an interesting point, especially because a lot of my early feedback and approval came from people who liked that I had more of a personality than other people doing this type of content, who for all intents and purposes, could sometimes just be an interchangeable voice. Personally, I'm not sure it's such a bad thing, but it's definitely not something I'm trying to put in every single video, just ones like these where the central theme is opinionated by nature.
that sounds like it could be a good idea. personally i like having the opinionated bits too as it gives more character to the video while also being informative. giving an edited gameplay portion, then an overview of what happened along with a couple things said here and there either during it or after i think makes for a great structure while constantly bringing up new sets and topics every few minutes.
@@AndresAndr95 thing is tho other people who have done that before (like pgstats, frenzy pro, even channels like yeet smash and stylesx2). having more of a personality w your content allows u to also be able to build up a better and bigger audience while also being able to try branching out to other content (think alpharad, little z, etc.)
Sonic, Min Min, Kazuya, Steve these are the biggest offenders in Ultimate. Too bad this game is just a kiddy game meant to not be taken as a competitive game. Was this any other serious Fighting game and all these 4 characters would've been nerfed a LOT. Sonic: Brain dead to use, 99% of his moves are super safe and you can either play the low risk high reward game or just play tag till the timer runs out Kazuya: Another brain dead character that has all invincible all super armor in most of his moves. He also has priority frame. He kills you in one interaction, he is super heavy and contrast to popular beliefs, Kazuya has a good recovery, and a come back mechanic as well. Min Min: Yet another brain dead character, has the longest range in the game, just hit A,B and that's it. Switch between weapons to beat the competittion even further. Steve: Super easy to use character, all you need to be worry about is farm, your damage output is great, there is a glitch that makes your opponent punishes a breeze. You have an amazing recovery. Easy 0-75%. He is another low risk high reward character.
I went to Momocon and I wasn't feeling it after doubles. The tournament wasn't hype, really. Too much DLC usage and too many long matches. I wouldn't mind if the character variety was more broad, but we got a LOT of the same characters dancing on high placements. That's what I find boring the most. I can deal with Steve winning but seeing a bunch of them and other DLC in top 64? Nope! I'm not hating on the scene or anything but sometimes I don't like watching.
Idk if I’m the minority here but I haven’t noticed “people not watching top 8 because of the characters that populated it” ROB,Yoshi,Cloud,Gnw,(one Steve and didn’t even use him in GF),PyraMythra/Olimar? Was stacked and then for the next 3 weeks there are big tournaments. I think the people your talking about just bias towards characters no matter how they’re played. Those same people will continue to watch because this game has Heart. Smash just has so many characters and I will honestly be surprised if this game ever dies like UMVC3 (nobody online literally and tournaments stop randomly)
Watched this full on release, but am only commenting on it now. While momocon isn't a bad tournament, nor is it a "sMASH IS DeAD" beginning. It definitely is a spike to show the more negative aspects of the sport; giving us an example of where it *Could* lead to in time, and that with us getting a noticable (but still mostly isolated) incident. I do hope this tournie isn't a forewarn to bad times, genuinely. But if it "does" by the community's standards, then I doubt we'll be able to repair without outside-smash help. I just wanna see cool shit on big screen, lemme just see the cool shit.
Honestly. youre final point on "It was lame not because of the characters, but the matchups" just makes close to no sense. How the hell do you want to define a character as "lame" if not, because 95% of the matchups he plays, he has to play campy to be optimal. "Sonic is not lame, its just unlucky, that he has to play campy against everyone except maybe 3 characters, that are fast enough to force him to stop camping". What kind of logic is that? I saw enough matches with sonix to know how it works. He often starts with trying to play offensive and will stick with it, if the matchup is good enough or he is just better, but as soon as a match gets close, he goes back to the regular Sonic win stategy of defense and hoping for the enemy to get bored/angry. He may try to please the crowd but in the end it just does not change the fact that sonic is just a reeeeeally bad designed character, if you play him to his strengths.
I got nothing against sonix the character is lame but I’m sure he’s cool and obviously the character works for him so it’s not like he needs to play someone else but I’m still just happy when sonic and Steve don’t win tournaments Kazyua hasn’t won much and honestly I never felt as though he’s that OP I def see a few flaws in him but maybe that’s my in experience against a top kazyua talking. Good job nonetheless to every
![MomoCon 2023 Vlog [Part 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eLjyMClLBkA/mqdefault.jpg)
Great breakdown! Love the video :D
Don’t listen to the 0-2 ers complainers keep doing your thing
Calling shiek a "low tier hero" while against a falcon is criminal
Honestly fair
Lol i was recently at 150% and a shiek forward smash didnt kill me 💀💀💀💀
@@PotentialThall Bowser player?
Credit to the commentators for staying positive through some of the most farcical stuff I've ever seen.
I would've had no idea what to do lmao
They have to, its part of their job. If they start being negative on stream, they get fired or won’t be rehired 0-0
They had experience dealing with bs from smash 4
Very good content! Refreshing to have longer length tournament content that really focuses on the players. I felt like PGStats would go too fast at times, or the impact wasn't as felt due to their speed. Mad respect.
Thank you very much!
Ddee not losing any games until Winners Finals was crazy. Sucks to see those sets so dominant for Sonix and Light, but Ddee still popped off and I'm glad we got to see more of him since he seldom travels.
A literal sweep
he also seemed to give up very soon when he wasn't commanding, he's a strong contender now, but he'll be much more threatening when his mental grows
@@NeutralL12 exactly. However, I can see why Fox and Sonic would be really hard for Ddee even if he had perfect mental. You may have seen Sonix's tweet, he lost the only game he interacted with Ddee, so he decided to avoid interaction in all other games. And Fox is able to get in on Steve without much issue
@@typhlosion7872 Although he still only barely lost the first game, he made a massive comeback.
To be fair, DJDon had no chance at the end of the set vs Anathema, and them screwing around shows how bad the situation he's in. Anyone can empathize when all hope feels lost, it makes sense
No for sure I agree
As dumb as i may be, but i love watching every char even sonic,minmin and yeah even steve, but it is not like i love to play against every char. It's just so you shouldn't complain as much
Same. I'm often rooting for their opponent, but that doesn't mean I want them gone. It's interesting to see new counters being found to the evolving meta.
I definitely fall into this category, too
The only unique problem ultimate has is its playerbase
mood
Truth
I felt bad for Sonix when people started booing at him during grand finals. I mean hating the character is understandable, but player wise I think it was a little too far.
agreed
I have nothing but respect for the kid. I hated Sonic, the character, but to deny his grind and pushing of the character and his skill is just silly. I'm rooting for him just cause everyone else are such haters of him just cause he plays Sonic. Watching Sonix closer for awhile and I'm starting to actually enjoy the games, seeing how people deal with his options.
All though he can't take a loss at all, this is very true. (Look at the recent coin box and the one tourney he fought a insanely good mii gunner)
@@adomomcjinkies4787He won CEO with one of the best loser’s runs of all time. Everyone has their days when they can’t take a loss, but idk if Sonix as a player has that much trouble in general
@@silverpotato4272 oh undeniably
Remember playing in your tourneys and it seems like you're blowing up now, happy for you dude!
that's craaazy man, it's been a great time
"But if we ban Steve, then the Steve players won't want to play the game anymore! :("
Yes, that's the idea
You want the game to have less players?
Light being a fucking hero
he's my fav
@@RisterMice I'm proud to be from the same state as him, he's such a legend.
I didn't know how much hilarious shit happened this tournament.
Sure some of it shouldn't be happening in terms of competitive spirit but damn it was funny.
agreed
Sonix vs DDee is one of the funniest sets of all time
I think the issue for me personally is that when I watch a smash tournament I want to see good clean gameplay of the game I like to play, whereas what we’ve been getting lately are characters that don’t play “smash” like sonic, kazuya, Steve, min min, etc. So many characters in the meta stray from what a smash character should be that it’s not fun to watch imo.
Which kinda still fits into the weird issue that is the Smash Ultimate community suddenly having people who just don't want to watch the game anymore, either in certain conditions or altogether.
Well some of those characters are just campers. Minmin, Sonic, they're playing the game the way a camping character is designed to play it. Sonic is a top tier, but is he so above Joker or Steve or Palutena or Pikachu etc that it's "a problem".
Really what people are saying is they don't like watching a character. And yeah there are plenty of characters I don't wanna watch like Olimar or Villager etc, but that doesn't mean these characters are problems.
It's so much more common for people to say I don't like a character ban the character than for people to be more neutrally thinking about if a ban makes sense. Compare talking about banning Hero because of his rng and text that puts competitors at a disadvantage when international players can't tell what spells the other is using, something that comes from a place a pointing out flaws in a character at the competitive level having problems, to the modern talk about Steve and Kazuya.
For the most part the modern conversation is fuck the players everyone is carried ban them take them out of the game, and it really feels childish and not people seriously thinking about it. Just say I hate the character etc but don't pretend it's about making the game more fair when it's really about people not liking to watch camping and pretending camping isn't a legitimate competitive strategy especially for zoners.
Some characters really do break the game to some extent. Kazuya is overturned in advantage state to an absurd degree, Steve can change how the game is played with block. Personally I really hate Kazuya and I'd be fine with nerfs to Kazuya and Steve but I don't think either should be banned. I did at one point when it seemed like there wasn't a way to get out of Kazuya 0 to deaths but those are far rarer now than a year ago so I was wrong when I thought they broke the game. And I thought that up until very recently.
Overall to me it seems like there is a far larger focus on hating characters and players than on the game's health and calling it "problems" is just a way to make people feel better about hating. Like all the people calling Riddles carried and saying he has no skill. Separate hating the character from pretending we know what's best for the health of the game.
@@isaacnikolic5895 I think for the big majority it really isnt about "making the game more fair" but "making the game more enjoyable/entertaining". Ofc nobody should harass the players. But smash is a community and the viewers matter, especially to the TOs. And if people are unhappy its only right for them to point out the shortcomings they see and even to point towards "actions to improve the situation" if they think they see them.
You talk about the people just hating characters. but its not like if they critic steve or sonic, they do it without reason. And even if so. Only because you may label their critic just as "hate" it does not change of fix the fact, that a lot of people are just unhappy with how the matches or segments of a tournament turn out, if the problematic characters are involved.
@isaacnikolic5895 steve and kazuya definitely deserve to be banned and sonic should have never been added to smash to begin with. Him existing makes the game so much worse. His main strategy is literally trying his hardest to make the opponent get a stroke or wanna kill themselves. Horrible game design.
95% of the community just needs to take a long break from smash.
People take this game waaaaaay to seriously and it ruins the fun of it.
I feel that a way to improve smash tornament is by having a ban system different from what we have now, hear me out.
Steps,
1.- Players submit 10 characters they choose that they wil, or might play as,
2.- normal smash rules
3.- when a player looses they may ban one character of the opponent from their pick list
This will alow players to ban bad matchups, and force more characters on a players play options & better to view games.
This would be a banger side bracket but it's a little too late in the games cycle
I dont think this is a good idea it will just ruin solo main players and will make favorable the meta for more easy to play characters
Hard no. Some people are character specialists and I’d just not participate in a tourney at all if I knew someone perma ban my main every match like it’s League of Legends
Man I love watching Steve and sonic, hope we get a lot more of it in the future. I’m sure that would keep the scene alive and well through our recent and probably upcoming hard times. Man it’s amazing to be a smash ultimate fan. Man I sincerely hope nothing changes and everything stays the same and we continue down this path and we stay consistent, constant, changeless, immutable, uniform, unvarying, and predictable. 👍
Felt
This is why MU experience and knowledge is so important and why IMO banning characters is a bad idea, but ya know, no one wants to admit that 😇
It's sad people are so against slower gameplay, even when playing. People are too quick to give up during a match, or not take the time to properly assess and figure out what to do in camping situation. It's a skill in itself to be able to play around camping. People are also so against watching it. Like, if you wanna see fast paced gameplay, idk watch a speedrun or some shit. Dude, SO MANY sports are slow asf, it's about the interactions and smart plays that people make in these tense situations that goes severely underappreciated. People are just too used to Melee and what it is NOW, and think all smash games should be like that -- hell, all PLATFORM FIGHTERS should be like that. And I simply don't agree. Ultimate really feels like a perfect balance between Sm4sh and Melee, not in mechanics, not at all, but in principle of methodology in attack and defense. In what you do to extend your advantage or get around defense. It's so incredibly deep to analyze, and I really feel if fans actually took the time to UNDERSTAND the level of play, they would far more greatly appreciate some good defensive gameplay. A game doesn't need to be fast to be entertaining, not at all.
People opting not to watch the top 8 of big tournaments because they hate the characters those players play is not rare in the fgc. In tekken for example, the balancing is good but usually lends to a few characters being way better than the rest and those characters usually are in top 8, because the best players switch to them, outside of a few dedicated solomains.
How much of the community generally fights about this stuff, at least on the level that smash does?
@@RisterMice Imo it seems like a bit less than smash but tekken fans still hate top tiers especially since its so common for pro players to switch to them, way more so than in smash. And they also hate non top tiers (like yoshimitsu) just for being extremely corny, like sonic or min min but I generally think people hate yoshimitsu way less than people hate sonic
@@RisterMice id say hating top tiers is more common in Tekken but nobody thinks top tier players are carried cause its mostly the players that were already at the top before picking up a top tier that dominate with them once they made the switch. I consider myself to be the opposite of a hater in Smash but as a leo solomain i used to hate Julia back in the day
as being a family member of light, i really enjoyed mcon due to watching his performance : )
very proud of my cousin and can't wait to see him accomplish more.
YOOOOO????
Can we stop saying “he’s just a kid”?
You can be a kid and still
1. Be a scum bag
2. Play like a scumbag
3. Play a scummy character.
U don’t need to be an adult to warrant criticism.
Also stop saying this is a kids game.
This is competition.
Every sport can be considered a kids game.
Tbh in Sonix's defense. Sonic is the most versatile character in the game, being able to adapt to almost any MU and constantly change playstyles drastically, but some MUs force Sonic to pick only one playstyle
Such is the case for Fox and Steve, where Sonic has to only play full aggro and campy respectively, which is also why playing Sonic isn't just a mental game for the opponent but the player as well
In GFs, Sonix had already donde a ton of camping to DDee (And Imma be honest I'm just glad to see a Steve get timed out, knowing they can get their full arsenal and still lose despite spamming anvil and minecart is satisfying, might be boring but at least it ain't bs), this led to Sonix almost forgetting how to re-adapt that playstyle for Fox, which is a full 180° that requires to play as if you were doing a combo video (Sonic combo videos are hype, would recommend clockwork), that's why Sonix played so hype then, bc Sonic CAN perfectly be just as aggressive as Fox, it's just that most of the time camping is more reliable and people really just think Sonics camp even when they're not due to that reputation.
Sonic's combos take a ton of skill and practice tbh, so it's a shame when people don't enjoy a MU like Fox where they just want Sonic to lose when he literally performs way more combos with higher risk/reward than Fox does, it's a shame bc GF reset was super hype (Before the unfortunate and frustrating SD of course).
Sonix is just built different and most of the time goes for a more aggressive playstyle that gets overshadowed bc of the campy reputation of the other Sonics (Wrath and KEN are the best examples of this), really wish this wasn't the case.
btw Sonix has already beaten Steves before, incluiding Onin at Ludwig's (criminally not streamed nor recorded) and DDee has said Sonic destroys both Steve and Kazuya, almost any FP2 character except Mythra which is somewhat even
I disagree with Ddee. Sonic isn't that bad against Steve.
@@legrandliseurtri7495 I think you read that wrong, DDee didn't say Steve beats Sonic, on the contrary, he said Sonic goes +2 against Steve
@@MurfyDaMarfi No, I didn't read it wrong, I wrote it wrong lol. I meant to say that Steve doesn't do badly against Sonic.
Never thought I would see a 30 min video about a smash tournament, great editing and commentary. Hate the game not the player.
really loved the video! coming from someone who once loved the smash scene but now i rly only watch a few youtubers or play with a couple friends every once in a while. the vid was rly well structured and edited well too. hoping to see more to come in the future!
damn tho as much as i love seeing young players make great breakout runs and whatnot at tournaments, it is kinda sad seeing people just give up because of a boring matchup (sonic) or even like w ddee how he was just straight up losing to light.
Thank you very much!
I can confirm I was one of those people that after Kola and Light were out, I closed the stream. It was only later did I watch the light vod because he won.
I'm not huge on your devil advocate points as the main problem is the character's and how they're optimally played. Despite how well they're piloted, fundamentally are not entertaining characters and doubled down when your watching both non entertaining characters one the screen. It truly felt like Light was up against a dark souls boss controlling the pace in winners/grands and every punish he inched was celebrated our of spite of match up.
You can praise all the players and boast about their performance but if something is boring, you can't argue with someone not interested.
I mentioned the entire time how I understood why people wouldn't wanna watch
@@RisterMice Sorry, You did, however I felt like your devils advocate points - didn't really hold up to the main idea of the video mentioning players performances.
Also DDee was seconds away from a timeout while djdon wasn't (Im not blaming either of these players I love them both and it's stupid for blaming two kids for ruining tournaments)
Definitely, I like both players, too
This vid would be more better if the background music was "Sonic 3 ost Carnival Night Zone Act 1"
Check back in on Thursday
Japan : no mistakes
Mexico : punish mistakes to the max
United states: C O M P L A I N ✨
I don’t play ultimate because I hate trying to move in this game beyond belief, but as a spectator, I think characters like steve, sonic, and min min are enjoyable to watch. Watching people try and play around their crazy options is hella interesting
I'm in that same camp, spectating wise
This but the issue comes when people don't try which gives us sets of nothing happening at all
Ultimate competitive would be saved legit just by Nintendo coming back and releasing a few more balancing patches. Increase the endlag or startup on spin dash, nerf Steve frame data a tiny bit all around, improve Kazuya's approach game while tuning down his intangibility and removing tough guy from him. Buff some of the low tiers. Or do none of that. Dropping the game entirely literally a single patch after the last DLC character was the dumbest and least caring approach Nintendo could have taken for this game. I get that the roster is the most balanced we've had pretty much ever, but just because something's good, doesn't mean that it can't be improved.
I agree that this isn’t anything as dramatic as the “death of competitive Ultimate” or whatever, but suggesting that Ddee wasn’t carried to a PERFECT BRACKET RUN as far as he went at a tournament this stacked is just silly.
I’m sure the kid is good. He’s not THAT good. That’s 100% Steve shenanigans. lol
just some video feedback -- white text with black outline is easier for reading, rather than black text and white outline
yeah I'm gonna try that next video
I'm not on smash twitter, and I would never go to a player's post and leave a hate comment for them playing lame. Still, I can't help be a bit irked by the way DDee acted in his sets versus Sonix and Light. He's obviously a dumb kid, and a 'troll', but if you are a very good player and steamroll the competition playing the campy game, you have no excuse to give up because you're struggling with a mu, and frustrated that someone is beating you at your own game. More than anything, I'm just disappointed that his great run ended on such a sour note.
that's fair
Bro went all in on the Ace Attorney music and I honestly respect it.
Watching chunky Kong play is unbelievable
fr
guilty gear here and people did not want to watch happy chaos during his peak at all
but also we just have less tournaments in general
light is quite literally our light in the darkness
fr fr
Chunkykong lost to Wrath 1-3, not 0-3. Respect the DK! :p
aaaah! Sorry about that, I must not have caught that
A big part of smash are the false stakes. It's like watching WWE. You know the players care to some degree, but for most people its just a game. But as a viewer, you want the stakes to feel real. It would be like seeing two fighters giggling together before a fight. It just makes it feel worthless. Stakes are important. Frivolity, as amusing as it is, has never been what made smash great and good to watch.
that's a fair point
I just came back from another convention. And when I saw this video, I thought "Man, I was actually planning to go there for next year. Was the con itself really that bad?"
Then I clicked, and forgot it was a smash bros thumbnail. Sorry lol
Yeah, I'm gonna be really blunt here, this kind of wishy washy, devil's advocate attitude is why Smash 4 died in a whimper
You guys are treating players like Sonix with kiddie gloves way too much
If he knows he plays a hated character, in an even more hatred play style, what else did he expect other that being hated by the general viewer?
He wins? Outside the game he's a chill dude? Perfect! no one is denying his wins, nor they're less valid, but he knows he's playing in a ways the community dislikes, regardless if he's a cool guy or not.
How about instead of arguing if Kazuya or Steve are worth banning first, you guys first regulate such strategies in favor of both player and viewers engagement?
Melee did it, why the hell you guys can't?
Personally, I just don't like redundancy. BoBC 5 was actually really lame for me (with a few exceptions) because there was so much damn Aegis
Man I understand why people hated the Wrath Jahzz0 set but I honestly love watching how people adapt to such difficult MUs, I wish Jahzz0 could've made it game 5 at least!
Also another fantastic tournament analysis and great scripting for this video! Love to see it!
Jahzz0 looked like he needed a hug after that
Also I just wanna say something about 14:59. No one is attacking the kid personally! Calling steve cringe especially during that set is not harassing a kid because quite literally that set was a snooze fest. Epeseically during the last part of anathema vs djdon that was 100% the worst set ive seen in a while lmao.
This whole top 8 looked like EVO smash 4 grand finals, you know the one...
I literally mention that at the end of my video
@@RisterMice oh shit i didn’t pay enough attention it seems, sorry… Good video though really enjoyed it.
Jahzzo was destroyed body and soul after that set.
it was rough
Sonixs only and biggest enemy is his homing attack
I’ve said sonic was more problematic than Steve and Kazuya for years and no one wanted to believe. You can ban those two if you want but take sonic with you or this is gonna be ACTUAL the future of ults meta
Good thing light put them both in their place 🎉
eaa en velda?
@@worthyspear4022 no habla espanol
Tbh the video is more or less advocating why Steve is the problem and Sonic isn’t really the problem especially when there is never 2 Sonics in a Top 8 of a major ever while Steve and sometimes Kazuya if you want to count Tea does
@@Alibaba-id1cs one sonic in any top 8 already feels like 3
@@janswhatsupdoc we have 3 Steves in a Top 8 of an actual Major yet you would just blink it off lol
Seems so biased lmao and that’s fine. Ban the whole roster fr fr 🫡
I thought Grand Finals was pretty damn good. Light made Sonix not camp
true
Sonic and steve destory the hype i’m sad for smash
Characters should not receive blame because it is true that they are lame however there is a huge cast of characters in which each one can receive spotlight but players don’t use them
Yeah but like MewTwo and Sonic for example don't have nearly the same tools that are good for placing well
@@RisterMice That is true however we have seen many characters that no one thought will reach top 8 like chunky for example. Not everyone know how to fight low tiers as good as any character because of their popularity for example Spargo vs Skyjay
tbh I've seen a lot of Steve mains give up during a tournament match. DjDon, DDee, Onin and Jake. I don't mean just going secondaries, but Up B-ing offstage or messing around like in this tournament.
no hate to them ofc, it's always when they pretty much lost anyway.
I do think Steve players often rely on their game plan to the point where if someone figures it out and can beat it then they feel really lost and it ends up being a wash.
the character has so much room for adaptation but that's a case of Steve being so good it negatively affects the players.
Even if you get washed, you should still be trying your best and I don't get why several Steve pro players just give up. Acola got bodied by Sparg0 five sets in a row, but he's still trying.
@@legrandliseurtri7495 i mean even if you're a top player you don't have to take the game seriously, and i understand being frustrated if you're getting bodied, so i don't judge them even if it's disappointing as a viewer.
but yeah kudos to Acola, you can tell that he's always trying, hope he figures something out to make it competitive
i honestly feel like the people complaining and refusing to watch based on characters are both not exclusive to this game and a vocal minority. people refused to watch sm4sh cos of bayo, so maybe it's just a smash thing, idk. but viewership numbers and attendance numbers are still fine in this game so far, indicating that it's just an annoying minority who can't appreciate different styles of play to rushdown / patient offence neutral
It was just disrespectful for ddee to have a temper tantrum on stage when sonic decided to play the matchup. Specially to all the thousands of viewers honestly
I wouldn't describe it as a tantrum when both him and his opponent were laughing about it, although I perfectly understand why people found it disrespectful, which is why I said I didn't condone or approve of it.
20:28 aaron also dropped a game to money mike
Sonido is jacked Jesus Christ
Did you guys just finally realize
Turns out mashing the b buttons good for the arms
One of 6 smash players who are in shape
I really don't want to hate on someone based on the character they use but I kind of have to do it for wrath. Congrats to him for getting top8 but I know I'm shutting my twitch screen whenever he plays
very interesting that Ultimate is perhaps the only game I can think of where a problem like this has happened. Even HBox when he was winning everything as puff didn't have people turning off their streams.
I think Wrath’s play style reminds of why we had such a problem with sonic during Covid/wifi era. And makes me think players like Sonix and Ken aren’t really playing that campy anymore.
Having said that i do still skip most sonic matches when watching smash regardless 😅
@@RisterMice people loved rooting against hbox and wanted to see him lose as he was the best at the time. People dont see them as the best but carried so its less intresting of a story is my guess at least.
really enjoying your content, love these breakdowns
He didn't drop a single game and picked Steve , wow really dude , that's literally every Steve being allowed in tournaments,that's literally the proof the champion is carrying the player
W background music
Sonix also has the best conversion out of all of the top Sonics. Sonix just needs to get over Light.
I believe merf has been considering dropping steve for a while since he wouldnt have to worry about bans. Hes also got a wolf btw
There's nothing you can do about how people feel when watching something, specially anything competitive, you watch because it's fun, its hype and while I don't mind acola's highly technical Steve, I do hate watching Steves that have absolutely no techs or fundies but still win because Steve, as well as the boring af gameplan Sonic's have in general, it is a good character and they're good players, but it is not fun to watch most of the time, simply as that.
And if something you don't have to do is not fun anymore, the healthiest you can do is stop doing it, in this case, watching it.
There's absolutely no way I can hype myself up to watch 2-3 Sonic matches back to back, I was really hyped going into momocon as an spectator but I just stopped caring, stopped watching hoping Light would win and I'm glad he did, however, I'm not hateful towards any players or even characters, but I can't ignore the fact that while I love watching competitive smash, what I said earlier is also true.
I would FUMING after that loss
3:01
14:50
Shout outs to David C. for speaking facts
So true bestie
@@RisterMiceItem combos are literally why I play Mega Man, lol. Metal Blade combos are cool, but so are item combos in general
watching sonix lose is one of the best things to watch in all of smash
Hearing the GAA songs is so fantastic, but nonetheless great video!
they're literally MWAH
In regards to merf's characters, there's a player I know called CamoCat who uses the same combination. I believe CamoCat said chrom beats Steve, maybe that's part of the reason
I must say I really enjoy watching your videos :)
wish you a good day
thanks, you too!
What was the song used for the light vs sonix section?
In winner's semis I used the 'Overture to Pursuit' song from The Great Ace Attorney 2, but for the Grands set I used 'Pursuit - Time for a Great Turnabout' from The Great Ace Attorney 1
I only played Sonic in Brawl because I was a huge Sonic fanboy.
But that Sonic v Ken match just... why? Sonic doesn’t run away from his problems, he faces them head on, and I feel like more Sonic players should play as such
That G&W looking like Maister
Maister if he was epic
28:43 bro shook his head and rolled his eyes...he was DONE with that match
I'll take my honest opinion, about kola, being a roy main myself. Kola could've won if he trained to beat a sonic prior because I see that sonic weaknesses can work in favor of kola. Sonic is dependant on dealing damage by spin dashes half on the air and half on the ground. Roy possesses a weapon that can tip the scale a little more in his favour, the counter. I did some experiments and although the counter does not work when sonic is in the air, while grounded it works most of the time and can be activated in time, with this you set up sonix to think twice with his spinning aggression, then pressure with mental games making soncx try to bait the counter and in those instances attack instead always on a reactive level never kola being the aggressor. On the other hand I would play a very defensive style because of sonic speed can get out of most shield and all, and focus on keeping my distance. Waiting for him to approach and going mostly for grabs, game 2 would work with conditioning spot dodges then transition to double edge dances. Changing the playstyle to a reactive one. With that said kola would have a chance, sonic doesn't have variation besides speen attacks he also lacks range for his normal attacks compared to roy. Knowing Kola, he would adapt and probably would've won. The counter also works, and I have applied this with people far better than me and close to pro level, if you have a a very high percent and are basically about to die, do a counter when off stage, instead of taking the hit from someone doing the chase it works and if he is also at high percent he will die, roy has the hardest counter out of all the fire emblem characters yes even Ike. I tested the counter with multiple characters to the point of almost KOing ganondorf countering his warlock punch with roy.
Yeah if he learns sonic counterplay well enough he could absolutely beat sonix. Roy is very good against sonic (like plus 0.5 or 1 if you're generous. Sonic is insanely good)
Idk if you know kola very well but he lives in georgia and plays against the gerogian sonic players all the time. He definitely knows the matchup
That's a big paragraph lmao nice
You do realize Kola has the most Sonix experience out of almost anyone in the world right???
Counter is not a good option against sonic 💀💀💀💀
i don’t think ddee is carried but he not beating the allegations with that PT gameplay
hey his day 1 GNW went nutty tho
Somebody loves the Great Ace Attorney, eh?
Fuck yeah
I don't think people who have watched the Smash for the past few years think Ddee is carried. He's very talented, but he plays Steve and he plays Steve pretty lame. Like what else was Sonix supposed to do? I don't care that he gave up, I just think the way he played forelced Sonix to camp harder.
I hear a lot of people saying that's Just how the matchup goes between any Steve and any Sonic
@@RisterMice yeah, Steve is slow and can't approach Sonic. Sonic doesn't have disjoints and doesn't have fast fall nair like fox, so this match up will do this.
All I gotta say is playing campy is cool in my opinion but playing for time or fucking around or giving up aren't cool in my opinion.
Not gonna lie, at least Ddee tried to switch character.
I guess i see how ppl would hate seeing ppl not take it as seriously and giving up but if these players were to take it seriously and didnt laugh or smile and just have fun we'd have more situations like kola 💀 and tbh as a steve main win or lose ur gonna be hated anyways so it didnt matter that much
calling sonic/x timing people out by using a special move from half stage "patience and mental fortitude" while not giving any of that same credit for steve mains seems disingenuous/double standard, ngl
also something to note on your inevitable gateway legends video (i myself went there and currently reside in STL), we don't have steves. hell, the entire state of missouri has maybe one solo steve with any kind of results and even then he's not well known because he never travels. For the record im not counting AK playing a tertiary ass character against low/mid level players (myself included in the first bit) as a real steve main. Saying that GL was better because no steve is just plain wrong. Had it not been for the ban I think there might've been 1, maybe 2 steves get any kind of results there, Onin being one. I think it was more due to the excellent vibe/venue (massive sports bar complex type thing compared to a dull ass convention center) rather than any one character.
I've seen tweets saying they were happy to see 0 steve mains at GL, but truth be told, they were unlikely to find any had steve been legal. STL has a pretty diverse cast of characters that we play. It's no MD/VA or DFW where we have 3 robs, 2 steves and a samus in top 8, but rather a nice amalgamation of snakes, soras, robins, and the occasional bowser among many others. I'd hate for GL to be propped up on false narratives instead of looking at and recognizing the amazing storylines, results, and people at GL.
I get what you mean but Gateway Legends wasn't just populated by STL, there were a ton of people from out of region and there would've been more Steve's that would've gone had he been legal. I know this because I watched a lot of my friends from Kansas City head there last weekend, one of them was Deathspade
@@RisterMice I realize out of region talent came but there's still a lack of steves throughout the entire state of missouri as well as states close to missouri not having many at all (im also including KC in this because they're basically missouri). steve being banned to my knowledge literally affected only one steve who was registered and then dropped out once the ban was announced.
This would have propably been better to simply ban Steve.
probably yeah lmao
Maybe just a style preference, but I feel like it would be nice for sort of "news report" type videos to be a little less opinionated. It's good to talk about the drama and what happened, but I think it would be nice to have the personal opinions saved for a separate video talking about the situation. Obviously this is your channel so you can make it however you like, just wanted to point out that I feel its a bit strange to have so many opinions in a news type video👍
Best idea I’ve ever heard for these smash content creators
That's an interesting point, especially because a lot of my early feedback and approval came from people who liked that I had more of a personality than other people doing this type of content, who for all intents and purposes, could sometimes just be an interchangeable voice. Personally, I'm not sure it's such a bad thing, but it's definitely not something I'm trying to put in every single video, just ones like these where the central theme is opinionated by nature.
that sounds like it could be a good idea. personally i like having the opinionated bits too as it gives more character to the video while also being informative. giving an edited gameplay portion, then an overview of what happened along with a couple things said here and there either during it or after i think makes for a great structure while constantly bringing up new sets and topics every few minutes.
@@AndresAndr95 thing is tho other people who have done that before (like pgstats, frenzy pro, even channels like yeet smash and stylesx2). having more of a personality w your content allows u to also be able to build up a better and bigger audience while also being able to try branching out to other content (think alpharad, little z, etc.)
@RisterMice it's a difficult thing tone to balance. Impartial yet imparting your two cents. Defranco and Omni sorta straddle that line
plz tell what song you used
Sonic, Min Min, Kazuya, Steve these are the biggest offenders in Ultimate. Too bad this game is just a kiddy game meant to not be taken as a competitive game. Was this any other serious Fighting game and all these 4 characters would've been nerfed a LOT.
Sonic: Brain dead to use, 99% of his moves are super safe and you can either play the low risk high reward game or just play tag till the timer runs out
Kazuya: Another brain dead character that has all invincible all super armor in most of his moves. He also has priority frame. He kills you in one interaction, he is super heavy and contrast to popular beliefs, Kazuya has a good recovery, and a come back mechanic as well.
Min Min: Yet another brain dead character, has the longest range in the game, just hit A,B and that's it. Switch between weapons to beat the competittion even further.
Steve: Super easy to use character, all you need to be worry about is farm, your damage output is great, there is a glitch that makes your opponent punishes a breeze. You have an amazing recovery. Easy 0-75%. He is another low risk high reward character.
just put a timer on it!
dude what's the music at 3:42? and 12:17
also great vid! (again)
All music from this vid is from the Great Ace Attorney Chronicles. Those two songs are Inspector Gregson's Theme and The Core
Can someone fill me in on the Maister/Syrup situation that was referenced talking about DJDon?
They had a game 5 set and when Maister won, he told Syrup that he sucked. People got really mad at Maister for that since Syrup is a minor.
@@RisterMice Oh wow, didn’t take Maister as that type. Was it a tilt thing?
@One of the 12 Sion Mains probably, yeah. It's the only time he's really gotten tilted
@@RisterMice Fair, thanks for the insight man
You can't even blame pros for just gving up against sonic and steve😂 like no other game has this happen.
I went to Momocon and I wasn't feeling it after doubles. The tournament wasn't hype, really. Too much DLC usage and too many long matches. I wouldn't mind if the character variety was more broad, but we got a LOT of the same characters dancing on high placements. That's what I find boring the most. I can deal with Steve winning but seeing a bunch of them and other DLC in top 64? Nope!
I'm not hating on the scene or anything but sometimes I don't like watching.
Understandable
The mu is unwinnable.
Give up 💯 ☠️ 🔥
Idk if I’m the minority here but I haven’t noticed “people not watching top 8 because of the characters that populated it” ROB,Yoshi,Cloud,Gnw,(one Steve and didn’t even use him in GF),PyraMythra/Olimar? Was stacked and then for the next 3 weeks there are big tournaments. I think the people your talking about just bias towards characters no matter how they’re played. Those same people will continue to watch because this game has Heart. Smash just has so many characters and I will honestly be surprised if this game ever dies like UMVC3 (nobody online literally and tournaments stop randomly)
interesting because me personally, I think IF/When smash 6 comes out, everyone's gonna jump ship like they did with Smash 4
18:00 what's this song???
Trial in Disorder from The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles
Watched this full on release, but am only commenting on it now. While momocon isn't a bad tournament, nor is it a "sMASH IS DeAD" beginning.
It definitely is a spike to show the more negative aspects of the sport; giving us an example of where it *Could* lead to in time, and that with us getting a noticable (but still mostly isolated) incident.
I do hope this tournie isn't a forewarn to bad times, genuinely. But if it "does" by the community's standards, then I doubt we'll be able to repair without outside-smash help.
I just wanna see cool shit on big screen, lemme just see the cool shit.
this video is sick, man. WHERE CAN I FIND THE MUSIC, THOUGH. THE MUSIC IN THIS VIDEO IS FIRE
All songs are from The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles
@@RisterMice thank you so much. i just watched a bunch of your videos. youve got yourself another sub!
good video, loved the great ace attorney ost :D
I LOVE THE GREAT ACE ATTORNEY MY GOD
Love the vid. Pretty sure Ddee is pronounced “deedee” tho
sadge
Honestly. youre final point on "It was lame not because of the characters, but the matchups" just makes close to no sense. How the hell do you want to define a character as "lame" if not, because 95% of the matchups he plays, he has to play campy to be optimal. "Sonic is not lame, its just unlucky, that he has to play campy against everyone except maybe 3 characters, that are fast enough to force him to stop camping". What kind of logic is that? I saw enough matches with sonix to know how it works. He often starts with trying to play offensive and will stick with it, if the matchup is good enough or he is just better, but as soon as a match gets close, he goes back to the regular Sonic win stategy of defense and hoping for the enemy to get bored/angry. He may try to please the crowd but in the end it just does not change the fact that sonic is just a reeeeeally bad designed character, if you play him to his strengths.
I got nothing against sonix the character is lame but I’m sure he’s cool and obviously the character works for him so it’s not like he needs to play someone else but I’m still just happy when sonic and Steve don’t win tournaments Kazyua hasn’t won much and honestly I never felt as though he’s that OP I def see a few flaws in him but maybe that’s my in experience against a top kazyua talking. Good job nonetheless to every
I'm for sure against being rude to the players themselves, 100%