Unlock Better Ham Radio Reception - $5 Antenna Receive Demo
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2022
- Experience the transformation of your ham radio station with the addition of a dedicated receive antenna. This video compares two different receive antennas, a small loop and a large loop, against a quarter-wave vertical antenna. Discover the real, tangible differences between them through objective data and your own auditory comparison. No gimmicks, just facts and results.
73
Callum.
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Thanks for the mention Callum. Just to refresh your memory, we did a swap and you sent me some Nebula radial plates for the "portable" 2 element 80m phased vertical array I built for the G0HRS mini DXpedition crew!
I took inspiration from KK5JY's original experiments and after 6 months of building, testing and modifying I came up with my version which has a custom turn ratio and is wound with ETFE covered silver plated copper wire. I originally designed the transformer to be nice and small so it was easy to hide in the garden which is important for the spouse approval factor but I am working on a new version which is larger so could be supplied with an SO239 as an option.
At home, I use a 60' LOG together with a Wellbrook Active Loop on RX and a DX Commander 12.4 Signature as the main TX antenna (just installed but I've been on air and testing with a 10m Classic for the last few months). I do exactly the same as Callum on his TS-990 with my IC-7610, VFO 1 in the left ear with an RX antenna and VFO 2 in the right ear with the main antenna then let the brain do the "diversity" part. It works very well.
Ah good man! PS - I need a couple of these in bigger housings, larger terminal posts and SO239s! Hint :)
Any feedback on this request?@@DXCommanderHQ
Fascinating, these ground loops - thx for the inspiration, Callum!
Yes its quite interesting!
Great video and explanation of how to get noise out of the Rx with the different configurations. Thanks. 73
Glad it was helpful!
Another great video Cal! My favorite receive antennas are all about dropping noise floor. One of my favorites is the T2FD. I did build a LOG for 40m last year and was surprised how well it worked even though the internet(QRZ forums) told me how it wouldn't work. Glad I didn't listen to them. It's good to experiment and always nice to add another receive antenna.
Ah.. The myths of QRZ and eHam forums! (and facebook)
The best demo I've seen so far! Those log's are winners. This is such an important topic as I believe we have a "noise epidemic pretty much everywhere. Even in the rural areas. Mega cheers and tnx for sharing C. Steve
My old friend Steve! But you are right. Tragic scenarious that some folks are in.. Hopefully this might help them.
@@DXCommanderHQ oh it will! I already forwarded this on to a friend in Florida. But, you can bring a horse to water but ya can't make him drink. Didn't seem interested but complains about his high noise level all the time. Keep up the great work!
Basic good stuff, now I have to watch it over and over...and start making one.
Thanks
Go for it!
I haven't operated ham bands for decades but remember always fighting noise floor, especially on 40M. I find this fascinating. Thanks!
Thanks for sharing!
Awesome Callum! Im going to give this a go!
Go for it! Have fun!
The mobile antenna on the corner of my truck bed and the small loop performed about the same for me as far as I could tell. I have a low noise floor at my QTH so that really isn’t an issue. I have tried tinkering with a small ground loop that was within 10 feet of my house with aluminum siding, just for kicks. I’m not sure how much of interference this plays into reception. It lies on the eastern side of the house. Of a morning I hear up and down the eastern seaboard of the US, especially Florida and up into the Northeast. The noise floor reduction on 40m was very impressive on your video. This helped me compare the possible differences between the antennas. Thank you very much!
73!
OK Carl, keep tinkering :)
One thing I think is often way too overlooked by radio operators is the RF gain. Turning OFF the AGC and "riding the RF gain" is the key to all the DX magic. Yes the vertical will pick up more QRN and therefore might not be as good for *receiving* those under the noise signals but using RF gain will "pop" many signals right out of the noise floor once one understands it's function.
73 de KX5JT
Good point!
Once again a fascinating video.
Thanks again!
Great video Callum, now in the process of building one as I constantly get S7 floor noise on 40 mtr.
OK Ivan, keep me posted!
Hi Cal, I built my LOG a couple of weeks ago and its now finally installed and pleased to say I get the same results you are seeing so must have built it correctly :-) I’m using your DX10 cable round the garden approx 180 feet and I got some Messi and Paoloni Hyperflex 5 coax, its working really well so far. I get the best result on 80, 40 and 20 meters. If I get time I was going to put a video together on how I built it, but need a couple of weeks before I can do that. Cheers Colin (M0JYT)
Ah-ha.. Nice one Colin!
Hi Callum. I have around 300m of wire on the ground that is an antenna for my Husqvarna Automower. Since the mower is put up for the winter I'll have a try using it as a receive antenna. I can either create a loop or a long wire. Should be a fun antenna project that doesn't require a ladder. Cheers
Do it!
Really like my LoG... They really do help a lot. I did accidentally tune up an transmit on it the other day though, made a contact before I noticed.
HAHA!
got two "LOG" antennas used for RX on various radios. most fun is using LOG antenna on FRG-7 receiver and using the FT-707(S) for TX. :-) manages to pull more stations out the frying mud than a bunch of fancy whizz-bang thingamy whatsits.. :-) enjoy the SNR & keep having fun! 73 de MM7WAB an amateur radio womble.
great video the last drawing looked a bit familiar my i say i love the thought you are thing about building my favourite antenna (pdl2) lol
PDL2? Haha. I've had one :)
Hi Cal,
I'm impressed that the LOG had such low noise. I've always seen them in a square configuration. Wonder if the loop in a circular configuration would a detrimental effect. The 12.4 Signature sure is pulling in the signals. You and the family stay safe. 73 WJ3U
Hi Don.. I don't know about shape.. Bottom line is that 40m seems a lot better on a loop (small or large!)
So, after all these years hearing the "conventional wisdom," I feel like Charlie Brown when he learned that the earth is not a perfect globe shape. I've dreamed of finally getting my dipole to a height of a half wave at 40 meters and that's been crushed watching Colin burying a loop under a pile of leaves! But honestly, Colin is spot on re the importance signal to noise in your receiver. And what better way to demonstrate than with a loop with a "height above average terrain" (we former broadcast engineers used to say) of nothing at all. Always fun and usually revealing. Great video, as usual, sir!
Hello George.. Yes, it's all a weird little conudrum! As you repeat.. Sig-to-noise. Of course, we do need SOME signal along the way! :) PS - It's spelt like "Callum" but I answer to most things!! LOL
I use a loop on the ground as the shack earth rather than putting down radials. There was an article in RadCom last year, which gave me the idea.
HI Callum.
VK4ZOW here, I have had a lot of success with the ground loops for 40mt. I got playing around with the loops after watching your first YT clip back in the day.
So I added an extension to it with another loop tacked on the the far apex and crossed over the wires to put both loops in phase.
It seems to increase the gain to the sides of the loops by about 3DB. but putting both loops together seemed to change the takeoff angle - Hmm.
I also put a gas fet transistor into a home made preamp box and made it self powered( 1 +3v lithium battery in the preamp box located at the 400 ohm balanced input at the loop).
I only need to charge the battery once ever 2 weeks as it draws less power that the ON led on the preamp box.
Preamp loaded with small 50 ohm resistor to stop feedback has gain of 32 db. noise figure of 0.06 db. at 15mhz.
It is so good I can listen to the chicken band and 10 mt band and always hear someone in the background plus most the 10mt beacons around here in Australia.
Good work!!
Magnificent productions Callum! Thank you for all your efforts and for sharing your knowledge and results. Super helpful! Signal to Noise … that’s where it’s at! So nice that I finally got to do some portable operations a bit away from my QTH and see what noise, or lack of noise, exists in other local areas, or even better, up in the hills away from everything. That was really eye-opening for me! I definitely realize the level of noise I’m dealing with at my home QTH now. Cheers sir! 👍📻⚡️ Tom - WA7FLY
Yep, it's amazing..
Tom, did you have some figures on the noise floor and SNR and sizes of these portable antennas you tested? Please share. I am using a 73 meters circumference LOG that I installed @ 15 meters from my house for 2 years now (receive), but I can make a very big LOG some @ some 80 meters distance in the woods and I'm trying to figure out if it can be awarding to make the effort.
@@SDR-DXobserver Hi Ron. I was comparing a Fan Dipole at my home QTH, as well as an Inverted-L Rain Gutter antenna to the portable use of an MFJ-1620T 20m HamTenna Whip/HamStick attached to the roof of a vehicle with a magmount and out in the woods away from people, houses and towns. The noise floor was at or near zero on 20m out in the woods. At the home QTH maybe S5 or worse at times. Even portable in other local neighborhoods was better than around my home. Very much a broadbanded noise raising the noise floor around home. In the woods I was truly inspired by the lack of noise. So much better, even with just a HamStick antenna. 👍 FYI, I've also tried operating at home with a variety of setups on battery power without any better success.
@@Tommy_Boy. , nice, but my question was how the LOG compared to the other antennas you also used in the woods. Good luck!
@@SDR-DXobserver Hey Ron, I did not have a LOG with me on the trips out in the woods. Sorry.
An interesting experiment.
My experience tells me that 40m and below benefit from LoG or a low level dipole.
Quite a transformation can be seen in high noise situations.
Thank you for another great presentation.
M0DSK
Interesting!
I have had a LoG on both my stations for a while here and it drops my noise floor by 3db and helps me hear quite a bit. Did a presentation on Temporarily Offline's channel on my results. I believe in multiple VFOs and receive loops. Great combination.
Don... Good work. I wonder if you found much difference up about 40m..?
I have a 101d, how does the extra VFO play into things here. I could see hooking the loop to the 3rd port and setting it to be the RX antenna in settings. How would I use the other VFO here?
I've numerous trees in my backyard. And they're all about the same height. Hadn't thought about loops until I saw Callum's video. Hmm. 73, OM. WW5MB
@@piquat1 On the 101D it does not. The 101 has a specific receive antenna. But on other radios, like Flex or Sun, you can use a second VFO input for receive only.
@@DXCommanderHQ 40, yes. Even 30. When you get up to 20, little to no difference. Here is the video: ruclips.net/video/yBrc05c1itE/видео.html
Great stuff! The trouble is many main station commercial rigs STILL don't have separate rx antenna inputs. For my noisy /P station I modified my sad little HW-8 for separate tx/rx antenna inputs. It's a meagre set up, but the rx antenna (an Datong active dipole) is in a quiet spot in the garden because the wire antenna just picked up far too much noise.
You make a good point.. For the cost of a dedicated RX antenna, I don't know why they don't add one.
Love this stuff! You're an ace OM ! -W1KRI
Definitely interesting video on your two loops on the Ground antennas, now if I understand you use your vertical for transmitting?
Yes, exactly.
Great video I must confess I don't always watch right away
Neither do I LOL
I’ve been using a LOG for about a year now. Love it on 40. Next step is a 2nd one and a phasing box.
Oh nice.
Try a small vertical antenna as your "noise" antenna and then phase it with the LoG. Just a suggestion.
Great video Callum! Been thinking about one of these myself. Is it better to raise the loop a foot or so above ground or leave it laying flat on the ground or does it make a difference? Thanks again for the video 73
Honestly, I really don't know.
Hi Cal, a question about the building of the antenna. My plot is a 3\4\5 triangle with the bungalow in the middle. A small loop is not a problem as the front is open plan, but the back is surrounded by a chain link fence on metal posts. I noticed that your big loop is mounted a foot up the fence post, which has stock metal fencing. I am planning on using the metal posts, held by ties.. Am I likely to have problems on the large loop, or should I move it away from the metal fence and put it on low ground stakes a couple of foot inboard? Thanks Jim M7BXT
For RX, it'll just work.
Using the rx pre amp will increase the common mode from pick up from the coax, placing a preamp at the far end will be a lot better
I use a home brew W7 IUV preamp it runs off 12 volts which is fed from the shack down the coax using a T bias. see the artical on the well good loop for info on the T bias.
No need unless you are a noise freak. A common mode choke and good coax will do the same on HF (to a degree).
Wow, the noise floor on 40 when you switched to that small LoG. That's my next antenna; my noise floor here on 40 is awful and while the DXC classic (when it arrives) will help me get out, I'll definitely need the help hearing anything.
Yes George.. I am becoming fascinated with RX antennas.. I have another RX video in the edit right now. Fabulous.
Small loop on the ground wins my vote and the signal to noise ratio explanation nailed it. One Question: Where did you get the LOG kit just for the transformer?
I can't remember but he sells on eBay for pennies.
Rent the whole field Callum, and put up rhombics, curtain dipoles, or a full size 40 meter yagi on a construction crane. Seriously, magic improvement on 40, need to try this myself.
Heck, I could rent the whole field - BUT I would be responsible for ALL the fencing (and maintaining the field!)
I have said many times, must be great to have space to play with.
Yep, it's cool.
The Crazy world of the Antenna.
I used to 'parallel' my center fed wire dipoles/inverted vees for different bands, everything fed simultaneously. Worked very well. That small LoG is just short of 1/2 wave on 40M if I was paying attention. What if you nested 1/2 wave loops for multiple bands all fed from that balun, then compare to the vertical on receive? Sounds like a really cheap wire experiment since the balun and coax already there.
Give it a go.. So meny permutations.. :)
Callum, what do you think of using an invisible dog boundary fence for a loop antenna? I know silly question, just go try it. I will probably need to turn off the signal unit and disconnect while I switch in a balun. 73, K9IC
Why not!!
Cal,am liking that small loop but my 80/40 I don't really get much problems with.For me it's mostly 20,17,15m and when I use the hexbeam point to usa it's great until 9-10pm then I get s9 of crud every 30-50 kHz:( do you think the small loop would help?? Thankyou 👍
Andy, for the price, it won't hurt.. You will need another run of cheap coax..
@@DXCommanderHQ ok thanks mate,
I am new to all this stuff, should have a license. I believe the loop on the ground Justs receives; How would one connect up the transmitting antenna with the receiving antenna going to just one input on the radio?
Dennis, you would need a switch.. Some receivers also have a button..
Do you have a video about loops aprox 6 off the ground. ? Kind of like the one in your video. Receive /transmit capabilities? Thank you( Have your DX commander up for a couple years now. Works great ! thank you for that.
John.. 6 feet works good for up to around 300 miles. Do it.. Coax fed with a 4:1 balun. You SHOULD get 80m and 40m off it depending on circumference.. Tune for 40m and use ATU for 80m. OR use balanced feeder back to a big fat ATU in the shack (more complicated but would work if you can't fit an exact size in)
@@DXCommanderHQ 20 meters at all??
Interesting and a little surprising too! thank you K5NR
Glad you enjoyed it
I was trying to find this video and I let a question in other similar video.
SO again: The lenght is 4m each side or does not matter very much?
Yes, less than one wavelength at 20m band..
Have you heard of the W2PM loop 5ft per side a squared loop with claimed 30db front to back ratio???
Nope..
How effective are LOGs for the higher bands? I am thinking 20m-6m where QRM can be horrendous...
OK.. In which case make them SMALLER than about 1/2 of a wavelength.. So for 20m band, you want a loop that is probably not more than 2.5m each side.. I have no idea about higher bands.. But no reason why not work..
Could you run 2 different length elements off same isolator? 60ft and a 100ft?
You could but honestly no point UNLESS you went in a different direction. Idea maybe. Not tried it.
From my listening on your video...
80m - S/N ratio seems worst on the 90m loop - Pretty close on vertical and small loop.
40m - 90m loop seems best - Vertical seems worst.
20m - All three pretty close!
15m - Vertical best.
10m - Vertical best.
40m: I liked the small loop :)
i tried twice, with and with out the binocular transformer, but both times, i failed. super low signals and SNR same or less. i might try again as better SNR would be very beneficiary on topband and 80. Regin, OY1R
Regin.. For top-band, maybe increase the size.. Make it say 80m diameter.. Also if you already have very low noise floor, there might not be much benefit..? But I don't know.
Hi Cal, is it possible to buy t-shirts with the DX COMMANDER logo somewhere? Max SP3LM
Lektor, Ham Radio 2.0 sells them. We WILL be doing shirts too.. Just another thing we never got around to! BUT next year, we will sort as part of marketing thing..!
Hi Cal ... On a small roof what type of loop antenna should i use for receiving.. i want to use it on my antenna receive port on my Kenwood ts-590sg
Ideall.. Look at "loop on ground"..
Thanks Cal. So the loop on the ground, if its used on my roof will it work fine ? I do have around 4 chimneys on my roof. I guess I could use them to apply a square form from the LoG antenna right ?
If you could only have four outdoor ham antennas, what would you choose
1. Dx Commander Classic 2. Low to ground 40m and 80m fan dipole. 3. A CB vertical hung off a tree and 4. Loop on ground!
@@DXCommanderHQ loop on ground as a receive only? how big of a diameter, and does it need a transformer - thanks!
Hi, DX Commander I'm in Southeastern US and I talk on 11m with a sirio 827 on the side of my deck about 35 feet off the ground on a metal pole, 5ft. above the roof. I don't want to go higher if I don't have to. Also I do not have my mask grounded. I transmit better than I receive. What can I do to receive better? Your video will not let me view it. My soil is poor. A 2 on the estimated effective ground conductivity chart
Sorry my swr is 1:1.2
You are high enough at 35 feet and SWR under about 1.5:1 doesn't matter and will have ZERO effect on performance.
i need a small antenna for a small garden , is that at all possable ?.
Huge topic.. Small garden antenna design video coming out shortly.. Just to be released.. hang on..
Is this possible if you have a radio with only 1 antenna port?
You could - but you would need to be able to switch between this and your transmit.
I am unclear whether the small loop is the 100" or 60" version from LMK Technical Solutions??????
I found further down in the replies that you are using the 60' version. LMK recommends the 100' version for the lower bands which is what I am mainly concerned with. Which length should I select?
Stations that I can hear 3 and 2 give me a 5 on 40 meters. Will the listening antenna actually help me to complete qso's that I would not normally be able to hear well enough on my end?
I can hear perfectly well on 160m with 60 feet. But start large, work down?
See the way u got that on your computer how do I get that up on my laptop with signal meter
I will explain soon.. But the full display is captured out the back of the rig into an HDMI capture card than I use M0MCX CAMDESK to display it on my screen.
I wonder if the loop on ground is dimensioned and fed from the corner as a rhombic, or really if it is just more or less a rhombic in disguise, just on the ground.... WTWW shortwave in Tennessee uses a rhombic and they seem to get everywhere... With four telephone poles and nothing to steer... 73 DE W8LV BILL (W8LV/VE3 prepandemic.)
No because it's too small to be genuinely directional at all - just marginal left/right of feedpoint.
May suggest a Beverage Antenna as your next project? Cheers from across the pond
Its in the plan.
I’d like to see how it works on 160m….
Works.. Ideally, I would suggest make the small one a bit bigger.
Is this video banned in america? I keep getting "Your browser can't play this video" ... on EVERY browser I've tried...
No it's not.. It's had over 8,000 plays worldwide (not huge, I fully realise but quite a lot for my little channel). I will go check a few things.. BUT, if you hop over to Odysee and do a search for this EXACT title, you should be able to see it there. All my content is auto-backed up there..
I have same problem..I click on the "Learn More" link and get directed to a page that says "your browser is up to date"....duh 🙂
@@DXCommanderHQ Works now! Brilliant as always, sir!
@@Matt-KG7JQH Great 👍
What size is the small loop?
Yes.. only 15 ft each side. Around 20m total (in new money!) :)
Thanks for the quick reply. I'm definitely going to give this a go. I recently gifted one of my tuned dipole antennas to a new ham that was purchasing my old HF rig and I needed to put up something else it it's place. I figured a new 1/4WL 40m wire verticle would do so I cut all the wires for it and will hoist it up to 40ft or so and ru. Me out some radials. . This will help on the receive end I imagine. I've also got a g5rv on the aenna switch as well but I've come to realize it it a good all rounder but doesn't radiate or receive as effectively as I really want.
Thanks for all the great info. I hope to hear you in a 40m pile up soon from the states side.
The manufacture recommends the 25' version for the lower bands that you found the 15' version to be an improvement over the vertical and longer version on 40 meters. Why did you not try the 25" foot version?@@DXCommanderHQ
What radio is this?
I use a TS-990s
Has anyone though of putting a variable cap across the 400 ohm termination's and trying to tune the loop like a magnetic loop to see what happens?😎
Give it a go!
Do your sheep have enough grass?
Yeah.. ANd farmer drops off a litle bit of feed (and reduces their numbers per field) in winter.
6:20 omg what a boring conversation!
Like the comment :)
Audio is resonating sounds awful... frequency too low.
Buy new headphones.
When it’s all said and done if you got the room make a LOG because it works maybe not all the time but when it does you’ll be glad you have it good stuff as always Callum cheers de W9US
Indeed!