Bicycle Wheel Building Secrets for Keeping Spokes Tight
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 6 авг 2024
- How to apply Wheelsmith SpokePrep to keep spokes tight and make sure wheels stay true. Plus other ways to keep spokes tight, such as boiled linseed oil, thread locker, crimping and a few innovations. #WheelTruing #JimLangley #BicycleAficionado
Subscribe here: ruclips.net/user/JimLangley1...
❤️ Please Subscribe - Thanks for Watching! ❤️
☼ Many thanks to my brother Matt Langley for composing and playing today’s music - reach Matt at mattlangley.com
Timecodes
0:00 - Intro
0:11 - Importance of Keeping Spokes Tight
0:47 - Why Spokes Loosen
1:10 - Loose Spokes Cause Out of True Wheels
1:35 - Different Ways to Keep Spokes Tight
2:10 - Pino Mirroni Locking Nipple
2:39 - Roval of France Locking Nipple
2:47 - Crimping Nipple Technique
3:10 - Wheelsmith SpokePrep
3:25 - Boiled Linseed Oil
4:45 - Other Spoke Thread Adhesives
5:05 - Advantages of SpokePrep
6:34 - About Loctite
7:05 - Truing Wheels with Loctited Nipples
7:47 - Using Loctite to Fix Loose Spoke
8:16 - Applying Wheelsmith SpokePrep
9:20 - Should You Clean the Spokes
11:07 - Dipping Spokes
12:00 - Correct Amount of SpokePrep
12:05 - Coating the Threads
12:50 - Cleaning Off Excess SpokePrep
13:11 - Letting SpokePrep Dry
13:45 - What Prepped Spokes Should Look Like
14:16 - Other Application Methods
15:00 - Closing Comments
My other wheel-building related videos
● How To Build Bicycle Wheels the Easy Way
• How To Build Bicycle W...
● Basic bicycle wheel terminology explained:
• Bicycle-Wheel Spoke Te...
● Pro-tip: how to align hub labels with the valve:
• Wheel Building Pro Tip...
● How to build wheels faster with a driver bit
• Build Bicycle Wheels F...
● Shimano's lacing pattern for disc brake bike wheels:
• How to Lace Disc Bicyc...
● How to inspect a pair of new wheels:
• ICAN Chinese Carbon Bi...
☼ The wheel building tools I show, use and mention. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases (there's no added cost to you).
► Wheelsmith SpokePrep
amzn.to/2NMA7GV
► Unior Spoke Holder (anti-turn) Pliers
amzn.to/3b6lIhH
► Efficient Velo Tool's Mulfinger nipple holder
amzn.to/3exQqz7
► Park Tool's Nipple Driver
amzn.to/2L2z9VI
► Park Tool's TS-2.2 Truing Stand
amzn.to/2AoOhqt
► Park Tool's Tilting Base for the TS-2.2 Truing Stand
amzn.to/3ozWf3O
► Park Tool's 3.2mm Square Socket Internal Nipple Spoke Wrench (Driver)
amzn.to/31IJlpm
► Park Tool's Four-Sided Spoke Wrench Black 0.127in
amzn.to/34QSAFU
► Park Tool's Portable Dishing Gauge
amzn.to/2Aid4Nd
► Park Tool's Spoke Tension Meter
amzn.to/36mEn6d
► Park Tool's Aero Spoke Holder (anti-twist tool)
amzn.to/2KYlDlP
► For hubs, rims & spokes, I use
wheelbuilder.com
☼ Read my free weekly Jim's Tech Talk column:
● www.roadbikerider.com/author/...
☼ My bicycle wheelbuilding articles that complement this video:
● jimlangley.net/wrench/wheelbu...
● jimlangley.net/wrench/buildwh...
☼ My Elephant Tough Custom Wheels & Jim Langley Bicycle Aficionado logo T's, caps, mugs, pint glasses and stickers:
● www.cafepress.com/jimlangleys...
☼ My famous Bicycle Aficionado website - online since 1999!
● www.jimlangley.net
☼ My Bicycle Beat blog
● jimlangley.blogspot.com/ 
Спорт
★ WATCH this video next on spoke tension meters and if you need one ruclips.net/video/7JLw4pGyVyI/видео.html
Nice work, Bro! Thanks for letting me do some saxophoning with ya!
Thank YOU for the awesome tunes, Matt!!
I have only about 20 wheels under my belt and learned a lesson building a box rim for a customer. Most of the wheels I have built were road and mtb wheels using no spoke prep. They functioned well on the long haul without any issues. The bmx wheel on the other hand totally loosened up on the rider after about three weeks of hard riding at the bike park. I used a gauge to tighten all the spokes and thought it was a sound build . I felt defeated when he came back with a wheel that basically fell apart. Learn from my mistake and use spoke prep. This is an excellent video.
Thanks a lot for watching and sharing that story about the wheel that loosened up, Michael. That's exactly why I made this video and I'm happy you like it. Thanks again!
Thank you for sharing, very nice!
Thank you for watching and the nice comment, Victor!
Thanks again Jim, really good advice!
You're welcome, Andrew. Thanks a lot for watching and commenting!
What a well done video! Thanks.
You're very welcome, Joel. Thanks a lot for watching and the nice comment!
Looking forward to your next video. Nice to connect with y'all!
Thanks for the tips
You're welcome, Martin. Thank you for watching and commenting!
Thanks, Jim.
You're very welcome! Thank you for tuning in and the comment, Radio.
You kick butt jim! Good job. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for watching and the great comment, Luis - made me smile ;-)
Thanks Jim! Greetings from Germany 😎
Thanks for watching and the nice comment, Stefan!
Awesome tips! A friend of mine used SpokePrep and the Jobst Brandt book when he built a wheel for me in 1994 (before RUclips) and it stayed true through decades of hard use. Now I’m in a scenario where I need to build my own wheel, so I’m very happy to have your excellent videos. It’s so much easier to learn by watching an expert such as yourself do it, versus trying to learn from a book.
Thanks for watching and the great comment, Ted, appreciate it! Have fun building that wheel!
Thank you for making this video!…it’s very informative!…😎
You’re very welcome, glad you found it helpful. Thanks a lot for watching and commenting!!
Nice to see a brief glimpse of Jobst Brandt's "The Bicycle Wheel". I bought mine about 25 to 30 tears ago. I've built a few wheels following his instructions.
I'm glad you liked that, roadie! It's a great book and Jobst was a legend and did a lot for cycling with his book and his many technical innovations. Appreciate you watching and the nice comment, thank you.
The kind of trick you can only learn in a video.
Thanks Jim.
You're welcome, Sylvain. Thank you for watching!
cheers jim, great video just built up a set of spank rims with your help .
Thanks for watching, M G and congrats on building your own wheels! Nice job. Very happy my videos helped!
Nice one thank you for sharing idol 👌
You're welcome! Thanks a lot for watching and the great comment!
I've been building wheels since the 1980s; you've got solid tips here. Suggestion: with the emphasis on keeping spokes tight enough, it is worth mentioning the symptoms and consequences of spokes being too tight.
Thanks for watching and commenting, Michael. I have another video where I get more into spoke tension and how to get it right here: ruclips.net/video/7JLw4pGyVyI/видео.html Thanks again!
Muchas gracias señor.
You're very welcome, Thomas. Muchas gracias for watching and commenting!
Good information. I use medium locktite , blue.
Thanks for watching and sharing your preference for Locktite, David, appreciate it!
You're becoming a legend on here, first video I was recommended when asking how to build a wheel.
Thanks for watching and the nice comment, Farmer! It's great to hear that my video was recommended to you and I hope it helps you build some nice wheels!
@@JimLangley1 you're welcome and I definitely built my first two wheels and they came out perfect, thanks again for the videos!
@@FarmerFpv wow, great job, Farmer, happy to hear it!
Great video! I didn't realize linseed took so long to set. I usually try to leave it for a day or two. But have never had a problem probably just because the wheel is lucky enough not go loose at least for the first week or two of use. I actually like the smell :)
Thanks for sharing your linseed oil experience, Ben. I'm hoping more builders who use it weigh in and share their tips too. Since it's so readily available and inexpensive I think some people may still want to use it.
@@JimLangley1 Many years ago my dad was using it to coat a garden table and I just took what was left over which lasted for ages :) I have since bought some more. It's great for spokes but there are much better oils to use on tables that don't go as sticky!
Is 100 percent true.
So cool, Jim! Thanks for the tips. Love the music too!
Thanks, Frankie! Appreciate you watching and the great comment!
Hello, I've watched and learned a great deal from your instruction. Built 8 wheels for myself to beat up on some jumps. Is it common for the spokes to need tensioning more frequently when jumping.
Thank you
That's awesome Wally, so happy my videos are helping you with your wheel building and great job building 8 wheels, way to go! I've built a bunch of wheels for a former BMX national champion. He's retired from racing now but he does still jump riding his enduro and downhill MTBs. His wheels hold up fine, the spokes don't loosen. I build them with Wheelsmith Spoke Prep to help keep the spokes tight and I always make sure to get his spokes to full tension (about 130 kgf - in that range for the right rears and left fronts). But, I bet you are jumping a lot more than he does and it definitely puts more stress on wheels. So to answer your question, I would say yes it can mean spokes need tensioning more frequently.
I don't know if you have a spoke tension meter like Park Tool's amzn.to/4bIdAjM , but that's a good way to check tension accurately to know how much they're loosening if it happens. You'll know too if a spoke or multiple spokes loosen because the wheel will get wobbly. The first thing to try is to just get all the spokes a little tighter than they were the first time. That might stop the loosening. Then, if you still end up having wheels loosen a lot, you could try building with a temporary Loctite like #242 amzn.to/4awuscv Hope this helps Wally!
awesome all accept the music......
Chemical treatment of DT Prolock nipples is pretty similar to the Spokeprep. Works well, but said nipples are expensive.
My favorite treatment is DT Spoke Freeze or Loctite 290. This is wicking grade compound, meant to be applied externally at the spoke-nipple interface after the job is finished. It seals the end of the nipple but the bond could be easily broken if needed. Works well with oiled threads. The main disadvantage is it takes few hours to cure (good thing is it cures from the inside out).
Loctite directly on the threads is last resort measure.
Thanks a lot for watching and for sharing your tips, Le - appreciate it!
I had 290 avalible so tried that on some spokes and nipples but could not get it to penetrate deep enogh to lock the threads.
Though i still need to test it on a wheel and then spinning it to get it to go deeper by centrifugal forces.
I was thinking about getting the DT spoke freeze but that stuff is absurdly expensive
Any idea if that work better then 290?
Great video, Jim! I've used Wheelsmith Spoke Prep since the mid-1990's and it is a very reliable product. One question for you: is there any way to "revive" a jar of Spoke Prep once it starts to get dried out, or are you better off just disposing of it and buying a new jar? (Maybe you use it up so quickly you've never had this happen, I don't know)
Thanks for watching and sharing your experience with Spoke Prep, Guitar! You are supposed to be able to "revive" a slightly dried up jar by putting a little water in and stirring. I haven't tested this but it's said to work. Let us know how it does if you try it. Thanks again!
Sapim makes a nipple called securelock that has little dimples pressed into the sides (akin to the crimping method but less "hack"). You could even double up with spoke prep since it's a mechanical interface, unlike DT's prolock nipples that have a nylon/rubber insert and don't play well with chemicals/lubes
Thanks a lot for mentioning Sapim and DT Swiss' locking nipples, J W. They are definitely a way to ensure the spokes stay tight. I have built a handful of wheels with DT's. I haven't used Sapim's. Here's the page on DT Swiss that shows a nice cutaway view of one of their Pro Lock nipples showing the red thread adhesive treatment inside: www.dtswiss.com/en/wheels/wheels-technology/pro-lock-technology.
And here's Sapim's page on their Secure Lock ones: www.sapim.be/nipples/design/secure-lock There are illustrations showing the dimples. I have also seen spokes with thread adhesives pre-applied to the threads when custom ordered from the spoke maker. But, it's not a commonly available option when buying spokes. As with using Loctite, I prefer and recommend factory thread treatments that are not too strong, because with too strong adhesives, if it cures before you're done building the wheel, it makes it more difficult to finish the build. Thanks for the great comment, J W!
I think that the sapim securelock are still a bit to lose
from Physics 101 from my 1st year in engineering school back in 1975….we used the bike wheel to explain tension and compression……the math reinforces the logic.
Thanks for watching and sharing the great comment Graydon! Sounds like you had a most excellent Physics instructor 😊
@@JimLangley1 - a truly superior professor….telling students on the first day of class “look to your left and look to your right. One of you three will not be returning after Christmas break! In January I looked to my left and to my right and both seats were empty……I ACED THAT COURSE.
@@gtranquilla yikes, that warning would have motivated me too!
love it, hard cord builder with simple tools, helps out in many ways a lot for me to maintain my bike in a better shape than just usable state
Thanks for watching and commenting, Story Book. I'm happy to hear the videos are helping you maintain your bike!
I find your videos helpful, informative and enjoyable to watch and I'm looking forward to building some wheels for myself soon. Question: On this video you use SpokePrep and on another you suggest using an oil. I understand the benefits of both but it's a bit confusing as the oil is a lubricant and the SpokePrep is a glue in a sense, correct. One or the other or both?
Thanks for watching, glad you’re enjoying my videos and you’re asking a great question. The answer depends on your preferences. Some people don’t want to buy spoke preps of any kind. In that case oil works fine but it does not add any thread adhesive which unlike oil doesn’t dry up over time. If you want to build long lasting wheels like pro builders most use spoke preps on the spoke threads and oil or light grease on the nipples - except NOT on carbon because it can be hard to clean off. Okay? Have fun wheel building!
Very helpful. Thank you. What can I do if I already trued the wheel but forget to use any prep? I only think to mix Loctite with something to make it more penetrating and drop it in threads
Thanks for watching and the question, Konstantin. If you scroll down in the comments you'll see one from Le Kobiashvili. He explained that DT Spoke Freeze or Loctite 290 can be applied at the base of the nipples after the wheel is built and it will penetrate and dry in about 2 hours and lock the nipples. That should work for your situation. Hope this helps and thanks again.
@@JimLangley1 Thank you.
I'd bet a dollar that Wheelsmith Spoke Prep is essentially the same compound found in Permatex Pipe Thread Sealant (Autozone, etc.), but somehow costs 19x as much.
Thanks for watching and thanks for the funny comment, VideoNOLA - but I think you might lose your dollar 🙂. The inexpensive Permatex doesn't include Teflon. I don't know if Spoke Prep does either, but it might. Maybe the next time I run in to my friend Ric, owner of WheelFanatyk.com I'll ask him because he would know. He owned Wheelsmith when Spoke Prep was invented and he now sells a spoke prep through WheelFanatyk called Fix. You can learn about it here: wheelfanatyk.com/collections/lacing/products/fix It looks like it's less expensive than Spoke Prep, too. When I run out of my last jar of Spoke Prep I am going to try Fix.
@@JimLangley1 Just to be clear, I'm comparing the Spoke Prep with the slightly more expensive version of Permatex Pipe Sealant, both of which tout PTFE as a primary ingredient. Gonna test it out!
@@VideoNOLA okay I look forward to hearing how it works!
I'd be surprised if there's any Teflon in thread locker type products. It seems more like some sort of odd glue. But I'm no chemist and I've never read the various ingredients.
Per the actual quantity, spoke prep or loctite products are incredibly expensive substances, but that's common for lots of rip off, bike related chemicals. Imagine the cost of a couple ounces of the stuff. I see a liter bottle of loctite for $707!
When you build lots of wheels, that cost really adds up but I'd certainly never use a liter on hundreds of wheels!
Given a few years, thread locker products like spoke prep or small screw loctite make truing slower, much more difficult and cause thin spokes to twist up in torsion, often requiring spoke pliers which slows down the truing process even further. As far as I'm concerned, time is money. I don't see the point in paying LOTS more for something that makes MY TIME less productive and less profitable.
Per Jobst Brandt, I've used linseed oil on spoke threads for over 40 years and hundreds of wheels built in my garage business. Not one of my spokes has ever detensioned, yet they're always easy to tension up nice, fully tensioned, even and true. In all those years, I've only had a very few spokes break on my wheels.
Linseed oil dries up into a waxy oily paste that still lubricates after many years of nasty conditions.
One pint sized can of linseed oil cost me less than $5 many years ago and it's lasted for decades.
As a pro wheel builder I'll still use spoke prep or small screw (purple) loctite, but ONLY on the NDS spokes on highly dished wheels that require low tensioned spokes on the non drive side. These are the sort of wheels I really don't like building anyways simply because they're not very reliable for hard daily use and abuse, which is my bread and butter. I only offer my lifetime truing warranty on wheel designs I approve of. I do use blue loctite often for assembly and larger screws. I use red loctite on my motor vehicles and various machinery. I'm a retired mil spec and aerospace machinist.
At work in a pro bike shop now, we use inexpensive Teflon pipe paste available in any hardware store on all our wheels. It works great after numerous years as well, but it's still not as cheap as the linseed oil. A tube might last for several dozens of wheels.
Linseed oil actually has several different uses on a bike. Great stuff and it's really practical. And you can even use it for it's intended purpose, to finish wood!
Great tips! Love the video. On the boiled linseed oil subject...I built a wheel last night, finished it up this morning (8 hours-ish after initial lacing and tensioning) I grab a facial tissue to wipe up some of the residual boiled linseed oil, and the tissue grabbed/stuck at the oil spots...The oil was sticky and nearly felt dried to the touch. I would love to try the Wheelsmith product, however I just can't bring myself to spend the $25...Does the Wheelsmith prep contain Rhodium or Palladium that it's so bleepin' expensive!? I probably have enough invested in various spoke wrenches to buy a gallon of the prep...But the shiny new tool thing is a whole different rabbit hole! I suspect there might be some confusion between "boiled" and "raw" linseed oil...Boiled linseed does dry relatively quickly. Your shop safety warning concerning linseed oil can't be stressed enough, it certainly can be very dangerous. Thanks again for sharing the video.
Thanks a lot for watching and sharing your experience with linseed oiling your spokes, Scott, appreciate it a lot. It does seem like a little jar of Spoke Prep is expensive but you have to consider that that little jar will last through building many, many wheelsets and the stuff really works well with none of the issues with wet lubes. I haven't tried it yet, but Wheel Fanatyk has their Fix spoke prep now and it's less expensive I think so maybe that's the better way to go. Check that out here: wheelfanatyk.com/collections/lacing/products/fix Thanks again for the great comment, Scott!
@@JimLangley1 Thanks for the reply, and the link. I will have to give one of those products a try.
Hi Jim ,great videos, ready to build my first wheel. I can’t find the spokes and nipples i want. Looking for sapim D’light and double square nipples. Where do you buy….. thanks
Thanks for watching, r g, glad you enjoyed the video! So the supply of spokes and nipples has changed since the pandemic - demand outstripping supply. To find a certain spoke and nipple now - if my local bike shop doesn't have them (shops that build lots of wheels sometimes have a spoke and nipple selection).... what I do is search for them on Google and also on eBay.com. Some eBay results show up on Google but not always it seems, that's why I search both. The thing is if you find what you're looking for you want to place the order soon because if you wait they might sell out. As I write this, I was able to find the spokes here: www.bikehubstore.com/product-p/dlight-blk.htm Here's where I was able to find the nipples: tinyurl.com/2v2535ds Hope this helps and thanks again!
Thanks for this video. I am troubleshooting an issue for a heavy rider that keeps getting loose spokes. I have always used a heavy oil for spoke threads, but will try spoke prep next. Do you have any opinion on tire width and pressure for a heavy rider (320lb) that has recurring issues with loose spokes?
You're welcome, thanks for watching twojsbike! My first question would be how many spokes are in the wheels he's riding? Lots of modern bikes have too few spokes for big riders. I've built wheels with up to 48 spokes and that usually takes care of spoke loosening and spoke breakage too. Even going to 36 spokes from 32 can make a big difference. Also, having stout rims will help too versus lighter rims. And I'd recommend sticking with 14 gauge/2.0mm spokes not the thinner gauge spokes.
As for the threads, Spoke Prep should help since it fills the gaps between the threads with a liquid that dries to act like Nylok on nuts and bolts. If Spoke Prep doesn't work, then I would go with either DT Swiss Prolock nipples which have a loctite inside their threads amzn.to/3KTM4oQ or you could just build with a Loctite and drip it on the spokes after lacing and before truing and tensioning - though it does dry as you work and makes it harder to turn the nipples without twisting the spokes. You can use a spoke holder amzn.to/40iEkl3 to hold the spoke from twisting. That makes it easier to true and tension but slows down the process a bit.
The other thing is to check that the spokes are tight enough when fully tensioned. With a heavy rider if the spokes are even a little loose to begin with they'll surely loosen more. A spoke tensionometer will ensure you know the exact number and you know you have them good and tight. I have another video about them here ruclips.net/video/7JLw4pGyVyI/видео.html
For tire size and pressure, I would use the widest tires that'll fit in the frame and fork and for pressure you want to find the optimum psi for flat resistance and nice riding performance. I've been using Silca's online pressure calculator, which seems to be pretty accurate for me: silca.cc/pages/sppc-form Tire manufacturer's are getting a little better about getting the right optimum pressure range printed on their tires, too, so always check that too. If the rider is using heavy thorn proof tubes or tire liners those things can encourage spoke loosening by making a harder ride, more jarring to the rim that can loosen spokes. It's better if the tire is supple more flexible to absorb road shocks. Okay? I hope one of these suggestions helps you solve the problem and I'd be interested in how it goes. Thanks again for watching and the great question!
@@JimLangley1 thanks for the reply! Originally he took the bike to the LBS with wheel issues and they sold him some generic wheels with 32 spokes. I upgraded him to a set of mavic a719 rims with 36 14g spokes. Online reviews recommended those rims for touring bikes and heavy riders. They were supposedly hand built, but I don’t know if they used spoke prep. Maybe these new wheels just needed to be broken in? I plan to back off the nipple and add spoke prep without removing the spokes. I am trying to avoid creating a situation where the wheel needs to be broken in again. I did watch your other video and will take extra care to get the tension correct. I will also try to squeeze in a wider tire if possible. Thanks again!!
@@twojsbike4803 bigger riders put a ton of stress on wheels so it's hard to know if it's just the rider or something else. If the wheels were really hand built you would expect they used a spoke tensio meter to get the spokes really tight the way they should be. But, if they did you wouldn't expect them to need any break in. They should have stress relieved the wheels during building and checked the tension multiple times as they gradually brought them up to full tension. If you have a spoke tensio meter you can check new wheels as a way to determine if they got them tight enough.
You'll probably want to use a brush to "paint" the threads with the Spoke Prep the way you're going to do it. I always do it as I show in the video before lacing. Let the prep dry before tightening the nipples. It would probably be easier to use loctite since you just drip it on the threads and it finds its way in. And you don't wait for it to dry, you just start working. Good luck. I hope you can fix it.
Wanted the follow up and say thanks. I followed your advice. I relaced the wheels with new spokes and pro lock nipples and paid extra attention to spoke tension. All spokes within 5% tolerance. It has been several months and no issues!
Parktool's wheel building tutorial recommends to use a chain lube with PTFE on spoke threads. Isn't that contrary to what you said here?
Thanks for the question ender. The answer is no it's not contrary. Park is giving general advice on a good basic lube that can help the components work well together during the wheel building process and ensure that after many miles you will still be able to true the wheel - the nipples won't seize on the spokes. PTFE stands for polytetrafluoroethylene, which is like Teflon, something that lubes and lasts. In my wheel building video ruclips.net/video/XUqul03hbZ8/видео.html I show the use of regular oil which also works even if it doesn't include PTFE - because most home mechanics have some oil around. The thing to understand and what I explain in this video and show is that you can build wheels with whichever lube or spoke preparation you would like to use and different wheel builders have different opinions on what's best and what's best for a particular hub, spoke, rim and rider too. So it's up to the wheel builder to decide.
G'day Jim
What do you think about purple loctite 222 low strength? I know wheel builders that use this, and they say it works well, and it is not too strong for future adjustment of spokes without losing it's anti loosening effect.
Thanks for watching and the question, Allan. I talk about the pros and cons of loctite at 6:34 in the video so please watch that part. Thanks again!
G'day Jim
Not all Loctites are created equal, and the Loctite you mentioned in your video is a medium strength loctite, 243, not 222 low strength loctite, which works in the similar way to spoke prep, which is expensive here in Australia. Anyway I enjoyed your video.
Kind regards.
@@alland2888 G’day, Allan. Yes I know about different types and my comments were not specific to one type. You can turn the nipples later with most but if one’s too strong heating it should loosen it, which I mentioned in the video. And you always want to be careful with carbon rims and heat. What I didn’t mention is loctite you can apply AFTER the wheel is built - wicking loctites. With those there’s no concern with the loctite locking the nipples as you work. That’s a good option that’s easier to apply though a little messy to clean up if you get too much on. Overall I still prefer SpokePrep and only use loctite if it solves a problem like a rider that abuses wheels and keeps bending rims hitting rocks etc. Loctite is great for keeping spokes tight on abused wheels like that. Hope this helps. Have fun with your wheel building and thanks again for watching my stuff!
Is there a way to re-liquify dried up spoke prep?
Thanks for watching and the question aaron. Spoke Prep is water soluble so you could try adding a little water and stirring it. I haven't tried this but it's supposed to work so give it a try.
How loose can they be with spoke prep to prevent loosening? Averaging about 77kgf on one side and 119 on other on my front wheel.
Thanks for watching and the comment. With those numbers your wheel is probably fully tensioned. The SpokePrep will help prevent loosening on both the 119 and 77 sides. It will also work on much lower tensions because it sets up on the threads creating a plastic-like film/layer to keep the nipples from turning on their own. Hope this answers your question. Thanks again.
What do you use, if anything to lube the rim?
Thanks for watching and the great question, Jay. Sometimes the nipples are oily and if so I don't lube the rim. Otherwise, on aluminum rims I usually use a trace of grease. Not too much or it can spread and you then want to clean with solvent to get rid of it so it can't get on braking surfaces or make its way onto disc rotors.
To do this, I have a spoke with an upside-down nipple on the end. I push the nipple into a tube of grease and then carefully push the nipple into the rim to get a little grease on each hole all around the rim. But, again, you don't need very much at all.
For carbon, I don't lube the rim in most cases. If I find that the nipples are binding at all, then I will, but again only a little. On some carbon the lubes are harder to completely clean off than on aluminum. Some carbon rims are built with nipple washers, too, and when you do that the washers are like a lube for the nipples to turn on.
Hope this is helpful. Thanks again!
how do you keep a new production wheel spokes tight?like when you buy a new bike.
Great question, topcat! Most of the time the issue with production wheels is that 1) the spokes aren't tight enough and 2) the wheels aren't as true and round as they should be. So to keep the new wheels tight, you fix both issues, first making sure the wheel is as round and true as possible and also checking rim centering ("dish"). Then, once the wheel is true, round and centered, you go around a couple of times tightening every spoke until you're satisfied that the wheel is tight enough. A spoke tension meter is helpful to have for checking. But any improvement you can make in trueness and tightness is going to help the wheels stay tight. Hope this helps and thanks a lot for watching and commenting!
Does anti-seize or copper grease are good options?
Thanks a lot for watching and the great question, Andre. Anti-seize and copper grease are both designed to prevent parts from binding by preventing corrosion developing between the parts. So it would prevent that and help ensure that you can turn the nipples on the spokes probably indefinitely. However, it doesn't offer any binding power the way the other spoke preps I cover in the video do. And that's what really helps in building wheels to ensure the spokes stay properly tensioned. Another reason not to use anti-seize is because it's very hard to apply without having it spread onto your hands and the rest of the parts you're working with. And when it comes to wheels you never want to end up with anything like this on the rim braking surfaces or on any part of the wheel that should stay nice and new and clean. So overall, I don't recommend using these products for wheel building. Hope this helps and thanks again for the great question.
locktight 290 green wicking penetrats assembled and torqued threads(you tube)
Thanks for watching and the tip, William!!
Do you recommend 'spoke prep' for every build? I haven't been using it, but my wheels aren't too old to see loose spokes.
Thanks for watching, Aaron and the great question. Since SpokePrep is on the expensive side, I could see saving it for wheels that "deserve" it, if you know what I mean. For example, if you're rebuilding a steel wheel on a beach cruiser, you certainly don't need anything special to build a rugged wheel. The heavy steel rim does most of the work. But anytime you're working with a quality aluminum or carbon rim and nice spokes and hubs, I would use it for sure. And one little container does last a while. I can think of one more reason you might choose not to use it on a certain wheel: if you were rushed to get a wheel done, then you might not want to have to spend the time applying SpokePrep and waiting to let it dry. Okay? Thanks again for the great question!
@@JimLangley1 wow, a little jar of spokeprep really goes a long ways. I maybe used a few drops in my recent build (44 spokes). But I'm going with it from now on as you never know when youll need to retrue.
Would you consider doing a video on building an asymmetrical rear wheel? I recent bought an asym rr411 rim and it's kind of confusing which side of the hub goes where based of flange height. If you have basically equal length spokes (based on the calculator) should the large diameter flange lace to the holes closets to the braking surface?
@@aaron___6014 I'm glad you like the SpokePrep, Aaron - thanks for letting me know. On the asymmetrical rim lacing, I already have a video explaining how to orient them. I don't use the term asymmetrical in the video. I use the term offset as that's a little simpler to understand I think. If you click this link it should take you to where I explain it and if you watch a bit I show the rim in wheel and which direction the rim faces. I think that will make it clear but please let me know if not and I'll see if I can explain more/better. Here's the link: ruclips.net/video/XUqul03hbZ8/видео.html
@@JimLangley1 thanks Jim!
@@aaron___6014 you're very welcome, Aaron. Happy wheel building ;-)
I know you said you put some on spokes and then five years later built the wheels......once you start do you have to finish right away??? In other words can you lace the wheel and then two weeks later..... finnish trueing the wheel?
Thanks for watching and the question, bjimbosld! Yes, with Spoke Prep it’s like a self locking nut - those ones with plastic inserts. You will be able to finish the wheel 2 weeks or even more later. The nipples will still turn just fine. Be sure not to put too much on the threads. You just need a thin coat. If it’s too thick the nipples will still turn but it’ll be harder to turn them - you might even need a spoke holder to prevent spoke twisting. To avoid that take care to put on a thin even coat. Thanks again!
@@JimLangley1 OK that’s what I thought you were talking about. Thank you so much for the information. It sounds to me like it can still be re-trued later on in the final assembly’s life without needing to be taken apart and redone(starting all over)
does this spoke oil the same as "thread lock"?
Thanks for watching and the question, Tito. If I understand what you’re asking, oil is just a lubricant. It helps you get the spokes tight enough and that helps the spokes stay tight. Also oil helps prevent corrosion so you can true the wheel if needed. Thread locks like Spoke Prep are different because they dry and cure to help lock the nipple onto the spoke so the spokes are much less likely to loosen. Hope this answers your question. Thanks again!
Can you use wax on the threads?
Thanks for watching and the question, Terry. Wax works as a lubricant so it should help prevent nipples binding in rims and prevent wind-up of spokes when truing and tensioning plus help reach proper tension. I don't how well it will work to help prevent the spokes loosening though. You could certainly try it and find out. Spoke treatments such as Spoke Prep do provide the grip to help keep spokes tight, that's why I use them most of the time. Thanks again!
no sooner sent the question than the answer came up. Is the spoke prep similar to never seize?
Thanks for watching and the question, Rodney. Spoke Prep is different because it goes on wet and then dries. And when dry it helps prevent any loosening. Anti-seize stays wet so it won’t help with loosening plus it’s messy to work with - tends to spread all over. Hope this helps!
@@JimLangley1 "tends to spread all over" Found that out when I put it on the car wheel lug nuts.LOL
@@JimLangley1
NOX Composites Teocalli Rim
ruclips.net/video/kRTFTeeWsEg/видео.html If the project was a reverse trike would the front wheels be built with offset rims with the offset towards the outside of each wheel?
@@rodneytrynor7374 ha, ha, exactly!
@@JimLangley1 kept watching wheel lacing videos and this got recommended
Bicycle wheel auto assembling machine
ruclips.net/video/EITEQLn8SUE/видео.html
What about loctite? Blue?
Edit: damn commented too soon
No worries, COSINUS. Thanks for watching and commenting and I hope I answered any questions about Loctite.
Jim..my choice is beeswax..I rub it on the nipple and it lubricates the threads and acts like a mild form of locktite ..I dislike the ammonia smell of spoke prep..the beeswax works great and it is super inexpensive..
Thanks for watching and for sharing your beeswax tip, sprocketandwheel! Grant Petersen of Rivendell is a big beeswax fan but I don’t know if he ever built wheels with it. Where do you buy it?
Red loctite?
Thanks for watching and the question, Lysergic. Red Loctites are high strength. Usually Blue Loctite - medium strength - does the trick and will help keep spokes that constantly keep loosening up stay tight. But, if not, a Red Loctite can do the trick. The Loctite bond can be loosened if needed with heat applied to the spoke/nipple junction (do not heat carbon rims). I hope this answers your question. Thanks again!
My entire back rim became detention
Sorry to hear it, but it's a good opportunity to work on your wheel truing and tensioning skills. If you click this link it'll take you to the part of my wheel building video talking about tensioning wheels and that should help you get your wheel tight and rideable again: ruclips.net/video/XUqul03hbZ8/видео.html Let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks I’ll check it out now
positive: well spoken and clearly explained negative: music that makes your speach hard to hear.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm always happy to answer any questions if you didn't understand something, just let me know.
I think the wheels are so cheap and the spokes aren't near heavy enough for these big fat tire bikes
Thanks for watching and commenting.